Spyke
lemmy.world

I love how this implies that all of us in the over 40 crowd are desperately trying to avoid “tells” about our age.

“OH GOD PLEASE LET THEM THINK IM 28!!! I’LL NEVER DOUBLE SPACE AGAIN!!! NO CAP I’M THE FIRE GOAT!! BET.”

101
Donkterreply
lemmy.world

That's gen z language. You should have called yourself the skibidi rizzler.

27
lemmy.world

The "two spaces" habit is because that was proper typing etiquette back in the day. You would lose points on on submitted papers if you didn't do that. I still do th two spaces when typing on a computer but use a single space on my phone.

90

What’s funny is I finish my sentences with two spaces on my phone because that is the shortcut for a period and a space.

34
Nougatreply
fedia.io

Yeah, I think this is more of an "over 50" thing. Someone who's 40 today would have been born in 1984. That would have had them graduating high school in ~2002 - well into the computer age and not ever having to do anything on a typewriter.

15

I'm 38 and I do it despite knowing it annoys people. It's just how I learned to type. Idgaf

30
startrek.website

I’m 35 and I learned two spaces in school growing up :shrug:

Then later I learned it had changed so I stopped doing it. :double shrug:

20
immutablereply
lemm.ee

Yea 39 checking in, that’s the way I was taught to type in school as well. I never broke the habit and still do double spaces after a full stop.

I’d honestly be more surprised that someone could tell enough to be bothered.

7
T0RB1Treply
lemmy.ca

I can't not notice it. It jumps out at me, the exact same as when someone does a non-three-dot ellipse.

I feel like the Monty Python priest with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch

"Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out."

3

The non three dot ellipse gets worse on some devices that replace the "..." (three individual dots) with '…' (one symbol with three dots that have slightly different spacing to the three individual dots). "...." looks wrong but it’s worlds better than "….".

2

31 here. I learned double first, and at some point it switched to single. I don't remember when.

2

I'm mid 40s and was taught the double space practice, I guess it depends on when you first learned this stuff, it was very uneven teaching back then

14

Yeah, I think this is more of an “over 50” thing.

Someone born in 1976 is either 48 or 49 right now, which is well inside the "two spaces" era. So you've go a couple more years to clear these folks out before its an "over 50 thing".

8

I'm 47. Was definitely taught the two spaces thing. We still did it on word processors when they replaced typewriters.

6

42 here and was taught the two space method in high school typing class but eventually retaught over to one space maybe 15 years ago.

6

I'm in the first half of my 40s. I was taught on typewriters in middle school and have been putting two spaces when using a physical keyboard ever since.

4

41, and I am one of those people as well. I had no idea it's not something that should be done anymore. To celebrate, i only used 1 space in this post!

3

Two spaces was taught in school typing classes. An artifact of mechanical typewriters I expect but that is why us olds do it that way.

8

Two spaces on the phone will put the period in for you on most keyboards. So there's that.

7

Oddly enough, I've found that many of my younger coworkers can't touch type. It makes sense that they won't use two spaces if they never learned that muscle memory. It seems unlikely that someone who's using the hunt and peck method would have that habit ingrained.

6

Some messaging services will crush whitespace, which can make it really fucking fun to communicate things like guitar tablature or Python code snippets. Either way you might type double spaces but it only saves singles. I typed this message with double spaces but Lemmy displays it single spaced.

3

I see double spaces between your sentences. Confirmed by copy/paste

1
lemmy.world

I realize that I have a "two spaces" habit. I have no problem with it. I find the fact that you are so bothered by an extra space after the period to be bizarre.

72

I imagine because it's larger than the space between words (one space), so as to indicate a break in thought, but not long enough to cause the reading to be stilted.

But if you're ee cummings, go right ahead...

7

For that matter, why not zero? I put 2 spaces because it feels right.

4

According to the style guidelines you follow, maybe. But a "typo" is always a mistake, and my use of the double space after the period is very much an intentional stylistic choice.

2
sh.itjust.works

Too bad for you that HTML collapses all repeated whitespace, so double spacing after a period on the web does actual nothing.

9
fedia.io

So you put a CR and a line space instead? Maybe I'll start adding 3 spaces, to keep myself amused.

3
[deleted]reply
lemmy.world

No, I just use one space. Fonts on screens look better with single spacing. Like this for example.

Double spacing looks weird. So much so that it is distracting. Look at this ridiculous spacing right here. Such large gaps.

Edit: example failed because the display changes it to single spacing. Maybe you haven't noticed that your text doesn't stay double spaced? Here's a screenshot as a reference.

1

The CR and line space are what you did in the comment that I commented on. ;-) Spank ON!

3

I saw an analysis of the Cicada 3301 mystery which noticed a double space in the original final.jpg image to conclude it was probably written by an older and probably college educated American, as the practice is somewhat peculiar to Americans who took formal typing classes either in college before the 90's or in high school after the 90's.

9
sushibowlreply
feddit.nl

This is something you probably want to care about when you're producing text in some kind of professional capacity, for e.g. a newspaper, book, documentation, or something like that. You will need a manual of style to maintain consistency of the work across multiple authors. Using a single space is a universal rule in every typesetting/style manual I've ever seen, so it's the correct choice in that case.

If you're just out typing stuff in informal correspondence, as a hobby, or otherwise, I don't really think you need to care.

2

Judging by the editorial standards I've seen from journalists recently (or lack thereof), I don't think this is high on their list of concerns.

1
SPRUNTreply
lemmy.world

Sounds like a "you" problem. I have no issue with it. IMO, wnatnig others to cofnorm to something becuz its a distraction to u speaks more about you're shortcummings in adaptability and acceptance then it does aboot the author and there righting skillz. If too spaces after a period bothers you that much, I got some bad news bears about the younger generations...

4
SPRUNTreply
lemmy.world

I just assumed it was forced enough that the /s wasn't necessary....

1

You know, I thought this might be the case, but without the /s it's a flip: is this person being very sarcastic, or are they very stupid?

There's a lot of people who are very stupid, so that's usually the assumption I revert to, when in doubt. I'm one that believes the /s is required for this reason.

1

In an age where headlines from The Onion are more believable than some actual headlines, omitting the /s was my bad.

2
lemmy.world

If you fucking illiterate children are going to murder language with "u" and "ur", I'll put two spaces after the period, which is the right goddamn way to format anyway.

31
KairuBytereply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The double spaces is a holdout from the age of typewriters, where spaces were all the same size. Modern fonts (non-monospaced anyway) already have different spacing between words compared to the spacing after a period.

If “ur” and “u” don’t belong in normal communication, neither does two spaces after a period.

14
lemmus.org

Testing a few things

`is this monospace? `

Or `is this monospace? `

Or is this monodpace?

Or is this monospace

3

Putting two spaces after a period and using "u" and "ur" are not even on the same level. You can't say one is the same as the other, using a letter to replace a word is next level. A double space can almost be missed honestly.

2

Imagine being so deprived as to grow upwithour a typewriter.

1

You know, that actually doesn't bother me as much as some other things. Your never going to guess what truly bothers me more than the short hand of u and ur. At least with the u and ur they have taken everything out of it.You're example seems to... Okay I was going to do a you're and make it possessive in this sentence but my aneurysm can only last so long.

0
lemmy.ml

Two spaces after a period was the way typography was taught and graded through the late nineties and maybe later. On a keyboard my thumb automatically double taps the space bar after a period. No thought, just reflex. On a phone, I never type a period. My keyboard app automatically inserts a period after a double space.

22

Someone above said that the standard didn't change until 2019. I was never taught to double space after a period, but I went to poor schools with bad teachers.

5

I don't know why I love the sassiness in this reply. I'm 42 and I do it too.

13

It is not literally how you're supposed to write. It's an optional convention that has been increasingly falling out of favor over the decades.

Sentence Spacing (Wikipedia)

The desired or correct sentence spacing is often debated, but most sources now state that an additional space is not necessary or desirable. From around 1950, single sentence spacing became standard in books, magazines, and newspapers, and the majority of style guides that use a Latin-derived alphabet as a language base now prescribe or recommend the use of a single space after the concluding punctuation of a sentence. However, some sources still state that additional spacing is correct or acceptable. Some people preferred double sentence spacing because that was how they were taught to type. The few direct studies conducted since 2002 have produced inconclusive results as to which convention is more readable.

7

It is, and the confusion surely stems from the internet wherein HTML renderers (all web browsers) automatically collapse multiple spaces into one. Don't believe me? Every sentence in this post has two spaces in between.

5
lemmy.world

This is literally how you're supposed to write.

How do you hand write a double space?

4
shalafireply
lemmy.world

Single spaces look odd to me, and yes, I'm in my 50s. But it does improve readability to me, breaks the thoughts apart just a bit. Not like we're still indenting every paragraph!

5

Not like we’re still indenting every paragraph!

Wait, we're not? I haven't been in school for a long time so...

2
lemmy.world

Whoa there, some folks still do. They're more accessible for dyslexic students, and also allow ASCII formatting for quick and easy questions creation on the fly.

3

I don't know much about that. I know monospace is used when quoting lines of code. I'm talking about general academic and professional writing, and especially scholarly writing.

1

Academic/Scholarly monospace has long since fallen out of favour. It's a shame really as it does render text less readable.

1

This is the first time I'm hearing about double spaces. For me it seems that it would have the opposite effect.

2
fedia.io

It was designed to stop typewriters from sticking. They taught the habit to me on a IBM computer. It is irrational, but so is life.

20

IIRC, this is the reason why we have the QWERTY layout as well.

4
lemmy.world

I will not stop. And whining about it will make me double down.

20

I only write in cursive. I find it to be more legible for the recipient than my atrocious printing, and more comfortable for me to write.

5
lemmy.world

If this is bugging you you deserve to be annoyed._ You're looking for reasons to be miserable._. You’re doing it to yourself. _ You give your power away to easily.

17

I use two spaces and you are all "no cap fr fr skibidi Ohio fam."

Fuck off.

15
lemmy.ca

Why would anyone do that, and why would anyone whine about an extra space anyway?

Sorry, but this is a lot of fuss over nothing. Coming from 40+

14
Billeghreply
lemmy.world

I grew up with this. Typing class (as in typewriters) forced this behavior on me and I was graded on it. It's a tough habit to break when your formative keyboard habits are suddenly wrong. It's not that easy to stop when you've been doing it that way for thirty years.

17
Phoenixzreply
lemmy.ca

I had typing classes too, on type writers (45+ here) and never did double spaces. Why would you do that?

3
Billeghreply
lemmy.world

Because south carolina has always been behind on things. We had typewriters and the schools didn't get actual computers for that purpose until 1995.

1
Phoenixzreply
lemmy.ca

?

I don't get it. That's why you put yeonspaces after a dot?

2

Ah, I see. For typewriters they taught us to use multiple spaces because it helps make sentence endings easier to read. Commas and periods are sometimes difficult to tell apart depending on the typewriter.

1
Zagorathreply
aussie.zone

I don't have too strong opinions about the people who write like this.

But there's a special place in hell for those creating websites and apps that render those spaces instead of automatically truncating to one space like the fucking Html standard expects. They have to go out of their way to enable worse looking writing.

0

Not sure why the downvotes, I fully agree with you. Those html standards breaking sites should burn in hell, especially the ones that still do anchor clicks with JavaScript

3
SkyNTPreply
lemmy.ml

That you aren't uncultured swine. Or at least that you are considerate enough to put in the effort to make the task of reading your posts as painless as possible.

18
SPRUNTreply
lemmy.world

Commas create clear communication, constructing consistent comprehension clarity, clearly.

4

Excessive use of commas just makes me read everything inJeff Goldblum's voice.

2

It depends. Sometimes you need it, sometimes you don't.

It only comes up in a series of three items. The comma before the last item is the Oxford comma.

If the last two items could be confused as the same item, you need the Oxford comma to separate them.

Sometimes they are the same item, and adding the Oxford comma there makes it confusing.

-8

29, and yeah: 12pt Times New Roman, double spaced lines max, and two spaces after the period always...

3

I had a guy review a document I wrote go through and "correct" all of my spaces by adding another one.

10
lemmy.world

Very interesting.   I hadn't noticed that before.   Something to consider.   I'll keep an eye out for that. /s

10

We can also clearly tell that no one at your work cares and they probably think you're an annoying little shit.

10
lemmy.world

After your first sentence here, I initially thought you were going to say "I leave one and a half spaces after a period." And I immediately started wondering "howwww???"

5
lemm.ee

Not 40, but I still do it. When learning to type on a computer in school it was a requirement. I don’t mind though because now when I do it, periods are automatically added for me in place of the first space.

8

Bingo. 44 yr old here. I blame Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing back in the early 90s. I still sometimes do the double space at work when I'm on a typewriter keyboard.

5
lemmy.world

What is a two space habit? I've never seen this in my life. I'm in my late thirties. Is this that's done only in America again?

8

Back in the days of monospaced fonts, it was common practice to put two spaces after the period ending a sentence to make text more readable. It's not an issue now that fonts are dynamically spaced, making words appear more "natural" and sentences thus easier to parse, but when every character had the exact same width it was hard to determine the "flow" of a sentence since it wasn't easy to see where it ended. I remember being taught in kindergarten/first grade to use two spaces after a period, even though we weren't using monospaced fonts then (to the best of my recollection). That's why this is an "over 40" thing - it was taught to older generations to accommodate the technology at the time, but nobody ever went back to "unprogram" this from their minds.

9

I'm under 30 and I do this when not on my janky phone keyboard. It just feels right lol

8

Two spaces is very ingrained. Will probably never stop. Didn't even know the recommendation had changed until very recently. Why?

7
Slatlunreply
lemmy.ml

If you are double spacing when typing this comment, your autocorrect is cutting it down to one. This is one. This is two.

3

Two spaces on a modern phone automatically gives you a full stop. Checkmate, atheists

7
lemmy.world

While I'm definitely in the "single space" camp myself, and have previously been pretty annoyed by people who still use two spaces, I actually like how often I see the double spaces on Lemmy because it reminds me that there are quite a few people over 25 on here. I'm not quite 40, and I don't think I was ever taught anything other than single space, but I have friends that still do two spaces.

7

You can't do double spaces on Lemmy unless you're using some kind of app that doesn't automatically condense whitespace for some reason. In browser you can have any amount of spaces consecutively and they'll just get condensed into one.

Or people are deliberately using nonbreaking spaces specifically to make it not do that, for a gag. In which case, that's some real dedication just for a bit.

2
0opsreply
lemm.ee

Connect doesn't either. You sure it's unusual?

1

I'm learning apparently it isn't for Lemmy apps, which must have a habit of not using standard HTML renderers-- which seems like reinventing the wheel to me, but what do I know.

I would say every modern browser on Earth does this, but modern doesn't enter into it. Condensing whitespace in rendered web content has been consistent since the 90's.

1
lemmy.world

I am under 40, but had "two spaces after a period," drilled into me as a kid. I only broke the habit in the last year, and it still feels weird every time I use just one.

7
Victorreply
lemmy.world

Were you ever given a reason for being taught to use two spaces?

2

Usually you aren't given a reason for not doing something, unless it's dangerous to do the thing. 🙃 But if you're instructed to do more work, it can be reasonable to assume someone once thought there might be a reason to do the extra things.

Seems logical to be at least. 🤷‍♂️

2

Yeah, I’m old. When I was in high school, I was required to take a typing class before I could take a computer class. A computer class on the Apple ][e. (I said I was old!) On a typewriter, it was correct to add 2 spaces after a period, and that’s how I learned. I did it on the computer for a long time, but I eventually broke the habit. It wasn’t easy to break that muscle memory though!

7

I always thought that it is because, after a period, in theory, you would take a slightly longer pause when speaking. Like the break between the last sentence and this sentence in your head.

7

I was taught to do it this way in computer class 25 years ago. But I quit the habit sometime in the mid 2010s.

6

I love that none of the commenters on this post extolling double-spacing actually have visible double-spacing in their comments.

6

I double space on the computer. I have to physically fight my phone to double space on it. I'd assume that most people browse Lemmy on their phone too?

1
lemmy.ca

It's about the typeface. Back in the day of manual or electric typewriters, we had monospace fonts, meaning that every character had the same width. A lowercase "i" got the same horizontal width as an uppercase "M".

Now we have word processors and proportional fonts, and the spacing after a period is built into the typeface.

One space after a period is correct, unless you are using Courier (or similar).

6

Exactly. If you're using a typewriter, go ahead and hit space twice. If you're using a computer with variable width fonts that does the typesetting for you, then don't.

2

Of every single comment in this thread, yours is the one actually addressing the most important factor that influenced this custom. This was imposed by schools who only had typewriters. Newspaper and publishing didn't even think about this because on printing plates they had kerning to worry about when setting each letter.

Same with the 1 and a half or double space between lines. Most people never consider to think that it was taught that way so teachers had space to write notes on your papers. Books and magazines don't need that much space and it actually looks ugly and makes reading harder. Outside of schools, typography is wildly more diverse and adaptable than the narrow habits taught to the amateur touchtypist.

1

I had the good fortune of attending a university that used the APA style guide, which gave me the opportunity to break free from the horrible MLA format that I learned in high school. So, no double space after a period for me, despite my advanced age.

Note: I understand that this is a typewriter thing, but while I had occasion to use a typewriter as a kid and teen, they were mostly no longer relevant already and I was never really taught anything directly related to typewriter typing. It is ridiculous that MLA stuck with that rule for so long (I don't know if they have dropped it since).

6
lemmy.world

My god, think of all those wasted bytes just storing extra spaces. /s

6
lemmy.world

There's a user at work who puts quadruple ellipses after each sentence he types. It's just like he holds down . for a few seconds. I hate it.

5

Gads... I hate when people do that... Like ... .what even is punctuation??? I'll never know.......

1
lemmy.world

My 53 year old coworker does it even though it gets marked as an error in Word. I'm 40 and quit years ago when people figured out that fonts no longer require it for there to be obvious separation between sentences. I don't think it's really an age thing so much as it is a sign of adaptability, maybe?

4

I never did that, even on a typewriter. Word processors do a decent enough job of spacing and it’d just look weird online.

4
lemmy.world

I'm still a couple of years under 40. I only did this when I needed to extend the page count of a paper. However, my old man punctuation thing is that when I use commas before and after I, "quote," something on a sentence. Also, I don't care what Microsoft Word defaults are now, I write in Times New Roman.

4

Our typing software had it that way in 2000, so if you wanted to pass, you would have had to type 2 spaces after a period. Originally I think it is was about fonts not being so easy to seperate text apart so it would be easier to notice a thought being started/ended when skimming

3
lemm.ee

I’m sorry I’m over 40 and was never taught to do that crap.

4

Over 40. Never do this. The word processor has been doing it for me since WordPerfect 5

3
lemmy.world

I get annoyed by trailing spaces for no reason.Trailing paragraphs before a page break are cursed, though.

3

Also a lot of people who put a space before punctuation, as in "really ?", which I've been told may be a tell that the writer is french or studied french.

(A lack of capitalization for country/demonym-ish nouns and adjectives may be a tell that the writer is norwegian—we just capitalize the proper country name, the rest comes off as random capitalization we'll often get wrong, with or without autocorrect.)

3

OP, this is a genuinely sent post on literally the first day of a new year. I want you to ask yourself something:

Does being bothered by this bring you any form of joy or happiness?

Does being bothered by this bring you any form of stress?

If the later is more true than the former, maybe you should think about that. You're taking time out of your day to be stressed about this thing and if isn't even paying you back in any meaningful way. It took you maybe 10min to make this post? Where would you be if that time was spent doing something you actually like doing instead of trying to bend the world on something so inconsequential as extra spaces?

I don't know if you'll take anything away from this, but of everyone stopped being hung up about things that didn't effect us, we'd all be better off.

3

I stopped that a long time ago and don't care who continues doing so. However I know that I'm dealing with a person who may be starting to sundown when I get emails written like that.

3

Imagine publically outing yourself as an agist POS with impulse control issues and an inability to rank issues worth talking about in any kind of sane manner.

2

I was taught to do that in word processing class in 1995 😭 I was only following orders!

2
lemmy.world

Never heard of this nonsense in my life and I'm a office worker who's over 40. What God foresaken American sub-cultural trashpile did this come from that these idiot kids from adjacent refuse heaps could start assuming everyone over 40 does?

2

For those of you as stunned as I am that Word now marks two spaces as an error, there's how to fix it courtesy of Microsoft Answers

Although current convention is to use just one space when using proportional fonts (two spaces were used in typing because most typewriter fonts were monospaced), you can select which convention you want to use and have Word flag exceptions (or not). At File | Options | Proofing, beside "Grammar and Refinements," click Settings... In the Grammar Settings dialog, scroll down to Punctuation Conventions. You'll see that you can select one or two space or "don't check." As to why this just started, probably no one can tell you, but this is how to fix it.

1

Holy shit the traffic on this post is crazy

1
fhqwgadsreply
possumpat.io

That's basically what computers do.

The rule is a holdover from monospaced type like from a typewriter. On a computer with a decent font and renderer it will generally make the spacing a little larger than an in-between-words space, but not a ton like double spacing would. Basically typesetting is way more complicated than people realize but since we solved most of the problems computers have with it in like, the 70s, most people don't tend to realize it unless they have design training.

The follow up post is significantly more interesting to me, as it basically mirrors the comment section.

https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/price-of-snark/

4

That's what I was saying. For people who are stuck to the holdover, it's just not useful to literally hit space twice if the goal is merely to increase the distance between the end of a sentence and the start of the next when the computer can do that for you.

It's literally the same argument between tabs vs spaces in code. The argument boils down to personal preference and taste of the amount of space. However, there is one truly valid argument that makes one more logical over the other: pressing a key multiple times to enter multiple characters to achieve a desired amount of space, instead of one key press and one character, is objectively bad.

If you simply prefer the stylistic difference, then you can change your settings to accommodate that. If you just don't want to do that, then do whatever you want. It's your prerogative to be lazy or whatever, and that's fine. Just like I don't care to add extra space after the end of a sentence because it doesn't bother me to have less.

However, anyone who teaches, preaches, or requires specifically adding extra key presses and extra characters is just plain wrong, because it's a stylistic preference. You can say that it's your preference to have more space, and you can say you don't care to change your settings so you don't have to press the key multiple times, but it is absolutely not objectively better in any way.

1

My 33 year old husband does this. He went to an extremely rural school and they taught him to do this in computer class in high school. Drives me insane and it took me years to convince him it's not correct any more. He works in an industry where most people are older so I guess nobody really notices or cares.

0
lemmy.ca

It's true, but indirectly.

Old people went to school and learned to write. I mean, they needed to use a pen and make letters and then - get this - were assessed and graded on it; and if they weren't doing this well enough, it's one of many reasons they as kids could have been - steel yourself - kept back from moving up to the next schooling year.

Really. The inability to 'write' could force someone to repeat actual learning again, and for a full year. Oh, the horror!

Similarly, we were taught how to make sentences and - it gets worse - write something creative, in this manual format, without errors, directly from something we called an imagination.

And the style guide of the time used two spaces. In addition to the requirements to make a sentence and a paragraph, properly, lest they be held back - not as a consequence of failure, if you've ever heard of the notion, but as part of a programme requiring success - also the style guide of the time was a little arbitrary. It's like how the one-space fixation is equally arbitrary but without the ability to make a full sentence without kidgin or memes.

Yeah. Telling. It's a tell. Watch me say 'please' or 'pardon me' and completely out myself as anachronistic. I often feel like this and other badges of honor like "being home alone and apparently not dying immediately" weigh me down a bit. I struggle. I'd demand a medal but all these medals are how I got this odd lean in my posture already.

0

It has to do with typesetting.

Fonts used to be monospaced, meaning every character has the same width.

We don't do that anymore, now we have variable width fonts, where each character takes up only the space it needs.

6

It's better to have two spaces after periods with most fonts. It's not good when the commas and periods blend together. Nice to know at a glance where the ends of sentences are. If you look at it with fresh eyes, forgetting about what you're supposed to think, you'll probably end up with two spaces after periods, at least most of the time.

-1

Double-spaced refers to line spacing to leave room for notes. I don't think period-spacing exists. It seems like people correcting a behavior incorrectly so prevalently that now it's just something some people do, which is humorous.

-8