I wish it still had the SD reader and one A port, but it doesn’t really come up that often. Just 3D printing and only because I’m too lazy to set up a octoprint server or whatever.
MBPs all have HDMI and SD slots… but Definitely set up the octopi with a cheap webcam. I’ve run one for years now and it’s so nice to be able to kick off and check on prints from my phone. Not to mention it doesn’t matter what computer I slice on and the files are small enough that I have gcode for almost everything I’ve printed for instant access to reprint whenever.
An octopi is a fun project, for mine I printed a new internal enclosure for the mainboard that has mounts for the pi, so the printer is completely integrated with it (never did finish setting up the internal power routing to power it directly off the power supply, but that's also completely doable)
I purposely don’t do the printer PS powers the octopi thing… I like to be able to drop some gcode on it for later or do updates when the printer isn’t on.
I was recently convinced that the M1 MBP is one of the cheapest and most cost effective laptops on the market right now. I know it sounds crazy but it appears to be true. You can get a m1 mbp refurbished (sometimes with warranty) for anywhere between $400 - $700. Making it a budget laptop. It also destroys anything in that price range in terms of performance and what you are getting.
We bought ours when it first came out after several terrible windows laptops. It still runs like new and there’s hasn’t been any need to consider upgrading (m1 air in our case). The biggest complaint is once or twice a year I need a usb c to an adapter for an old device or something.
I'm not in the Apple ecosystem but I have a 16" 32GB M1 MBP. It was given to me when I started my job as my work machine and the thing is a beast especially comparing it to all the terrible laptops Apple came out with prior (removal of mag safe, addition of touch bar, the keyboard issues). I still use that laptop for work today and it honestly doesn't even feel like it's aged a day. Everything is still extremely fast and I use my work laptop 8 hours a day for extremely demanding tasks (I'm a dev so things like running dozens of docker containers, compilation, Android emulators, multiple IDEs, etc).
Honestly agreed. For the majority of users that just do light office work and browsing it is a great piece of technology. Although i would say it is less about performance (because those people would be fine with even less) and more about build quality, battery life, fanless design and good screen.
The one issue i have with it is the 256gb non-removable storage. More actually than the 8gb RAM, which tbh for many people is enough for casual use.
I am still waiting for anyone not named apple to release a similarly priced fanless laptop with good build quality. With lunar lake it should finally be possible imo.
If you spend a little more (like $700) you can get 16gb ram and 512gb. For performance I think "light office work" is selling it short. It's more than capable of handling heavy office work IMO.
Thanks for the link, I thought refurbished meant it would have warranty. Cool price if you're on a pinch although personally I would not gamble on it without a warranty.
Yeah, I guess it depends on what kind of work. I thought that for demanding office stuff the 8gb RAM might end up mattering after all.
But your $700 with warranty are an amazing deal that make this irrelevant. That really only leaves the single external monitor (without using workarounds) as downside.
Where I am in Europe however I don't think I could find the better specced models anywhere close to that price
While I personally prefer this, I'm going to guess that the majority of people are generally not going to be using more than 2 or three usb ports at once. My take is that for most people, 2 Cs, an A, DP or HDMI would be optimal.
The availability of BT and wifi peripherals make this acceptable for many.
I still have a cutting plotter that uses RS232, but that's connected to an oldish desktop, on the network, so a laptop never gets connected physically.
I'm not saying that this is good, simply that this is probably acceptable for many.
I have the same mac pictured above, and also a windows laptop with many ports.
The mac I plug into my work center via a single usb-c connection which charges it, connects it to my external monitor, and connects it to all of my USB equipment (about 6 items ranging from m&k to music equipment). Having only the one wire is huge in terms of making it easier to break down the machine from its setup and pack it up for the road.
The pc is connected separately to power as it can’t be powered through the usb-c, and to the monitor separately for some esoteric reason. So then I need a third cable to connect it to my equipment.
So in my case the less-is-more approach is actually preferable
that all being said
I’m sure other windows laptops can be configured with a one-wire solution just fine. And I don’t mean to pretend the 2x usb-c config was a popular choice or anything. Only on like two models or something had it. The newer macbooks brought back sd card slots and hdmi and everything by popular demand.
I looked into it and you can still run everything off of just one usb-c on those ones, so at the end of the day more options is just better for more people
Was just using a new ROG something something laptop for a job. The power connector is some little rectangle thing and it almost fit in a USBc. I was surprised when it was unique. 1 wire aint happening on that.
The mac I plug into my work center via a single usb-c connection which charges it, connects it to my external monitor, and connects it to all of my USB equipment
I do this with my Dell, which also has many ports ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My 4 month old laptop has hdmi on the back, ethernet on the left, four usb 3.whatever slots with two on each side, two USB c slots on the right side, and a microsd slot.
I think it even has a 3.5mm headset jack but I'd have to get out of bed to check. I don't have any peripherals that use 3.5mm anymore though so it's just a nice little bonus.
I don't. We have standardized on Macbook Pros at work because otherwise we'd have to use the company-issued image, which really sucks for development work (multi-day turnaround to get anything approved).
I'm interested in replacing my current laptop (E495 Thinkpad), and it's really hard to find anything sensible w/ an RJ-45 port, especially one w/ decent Linux support. I want something in a similar form factor (14", or 16" if the bezels are really thin), but with updated internals (nothing fancy, but the 3500U is getting a bit slow for casual gaming).
I've been thinking of a Framework laptop, but the RJ-45 port is wack, only having 4 ports kind of sucks (they could have better density with those ports), and it doesn't have the Trackpoint that I like so much about my Thinkpad. We'll see what I end up with when I actually buy one though, but maybe I'll have to take another look at Dell's professional line.
Not sure if the current generation still has it, but work issued us techs with ThinkPad L14 Gen 3 laptops and I've been happy with it as a work device. It has an RJ-45 (was considered a requirement when they procured the laptops for techs) and mine has a Ryzen 5 Pro 5675U. Only complaints I would have for it is soldered USB-C connectors (which double as the only power source for the machine) and keyboard isn't as nice as my personal T480 although definitely still fine.
I would caution against the 12th gen Intel i7 ThinkPads, we've had multiple internally have overheating issues or stuck in connected standby. My colleague wishes he never replaced his original work issue (same as mine).
The E14 and T14 still have them as well, and that's what I'm interested in. I used to buy T-series, but they started soldering the RAM, so I switched to E-series for my last one. I don't know if they solder RAM on the E14 though, they probably do.
I really miss my T440, which had a fantastic keyboard, but my E495 is still better than my Macbook Pro (hate that keyboard) and pretty much every other laptop I've used. Not sure how the newer Thinkpads are, but I definitely don't want those ultra-thin keyboards so many vendors are going with.
And yeah, I'll probably go AMD again, I want the APU perf and don't want a dGPU.
My point was that defending the pissing contest over standards that gave us consumers six ports instead of one to do all the same tasks really misses the mark, imo.
Not really, i don't use usb-c for everything cause for me it gives no advantage. Like my LAN cable still works, my aux port is up-to my satisfaction, my DP port is straightforward.
Why should i go to USB-C if everything works? I'm not Anti Type-c but I'm also not Pro type-c, if that makes sense. I'll use it if I'm missing on some new tech.
I would like RS-232 and RS-485 modules and a full size SD card reader would be nice too. It's probably something I would end up building myself if I get a Framework laptop.
Edit: It looks like they have an SD card module now, nice.
I just wish the existing dongles had a bit more density to them. That's a lot of space for a micro-SD slot, they totally could have fit a full SD card in there as well, and perhaps even a micro-USB or headphone jack.
I like being able to swap them, but each USB-C port can handle a lot more than a single-use dongle.
Yup. If you limited your purchases to companies not partly owned by people you don't like, you couldn't buy from any public company and would have a very small selection from private companies.
Buy products that make sense, screw whoever else invests in it.
That also means we can still use the expansion cards for the Framework in any other device that also has a USB-C port. Need an SD card reader or a 2.5Gb LAN adapter? Not a problem, I'll just grab one from my laptop.
I have a framework, and while this system is pretty cool, I don't change the cards often and I only have 4 cards. I'd rather have some more built-in ports too.
That's one of the cool things about the framework, though, just the fact that you can, because I swap my ports all the time. I use it to game on my big TV at home, but I almost never need an HDMI port on the go, so I pop it out and pop in another USB-C or something.
Yeah, I wish they had 2 dedicated USB-C ports (one on each side) and had the four swappable bays. The RJ-45 port also look really dumb, I think they could have done something a bit more clever there.
If you got that kind of money to spend on a laptop, sure. I really don't.
Edit: to be clear, I know this is a stack of Mac's in OPs picture, but the development that the entry models have basically no ports at all is a more recent development. Having to pick the pro just to be able to connect your stuff without dongles or hubs is a bit insane considering the price (and price difference).
It really depends on what you use your laptop for. My 2013 MBP lasted 9 years and was how I got my work done. That comes out to 76¢ per day, and I make a fair bit more than that per hour.
But if you’re looking for a personal computer to surf the internet, yes, that could be cost prohibitive. But then it also matters less what device you buy.
As for ports, I’ve never needed a dongle on the 2013 model. I did need one for a USB A drive on the newest model, but this little thing has solved that problem easily. I didn’t even have to buy that since my monitor has USB A ports – I was just too lazy to reach around the back to use it every time. I’m not sure I understand all the complaints about the occasional need for a dongle.
I have an M2 Air, and all mine is missing from that is the SDXC slot, third TB4 and HDMI, and honestly, it's fine. A third TB4/USB would be nice for when I'm doing my radio show and have to plug in my controller and mic while also charing my phone, but I already have a hub so it doesn't bother me.
That said, the limited ports on my M1 mini are quite problematic. Two TB3/USB and two USB3, but one of them is lost to a DisplayPort cable for my second monitor. So I have a desktop computer that functionally has three USB sockets, which ain't great. But again, I have a hub, so it's not a huge problem.
Exactly! What are you going to do if your router dies (or you mess something up fiddling w/ things)? I may only need it once/year or so, but when I do, it's really important and I most likely can't find the dongle.
An RJ-45 port could totally fit on there if they used one of those flip-down things that Dell has on their professional line.
It’s really not. I have one on my work laptop and have never plugged an Ethernet jack into it. That stays permanently in my dock and gets transferred to the laptop via USB-C. All other non-desk work is done via … WiFi. Shock! Literally can’t tell the difference when making money.
Unless you want a desk setup. I have 2 monitors, kb, mouse, external dac, usb extension for thumbdrives, ethernet, usb soundcard for my mic and a kvm. That's dp, hdmi, 6 usb-a, ethernet and I still sometimes plug-in 1-3 devices to charge them.
It's not about it being practical. It's about if it's actually doable or not and how well it would work. Having the native ports will always be better that using a hub/dock.
Strongly disagree. I use a laptop with a thunderbolt dock. Being able to plug in a single cable to provide power, connect my monitor, all of my input devices, Ethernet, and anything else in a single cable is awesome. If I had to plug 10 things in manually it would be quite cumbersome. I disconnect the laptop daily as I bring it between work and home, as well as use it, well, as a portable laptop.
What you could do now is step out of your bubble and consider that other people have different use cases and might need or prefer to have more native ports.
You literally lose nothing by having more connectivity options.
Like I already said to another user: No. There are more than a few use cases that require a mobile set up for demos for example but that you’d also want to use in a desk setting. For example, architects or sw dev.
Why are you making an effort to justify getting shafted by corporations?
In this situation a hub is still better. You can pack all the stuff away plugged into the hub for easier set up. If your plugging that all into your laptop, you’ll need to plug it all back in again when you move.
We aren’t justifying getting shafted by corporations. What I and the other person are saying is that at some point as your connections and cables multiply, you need to consolidate and streamline your setup for it to be more practical and actually mobile. I’m all for having all the basic necessity ports on my laptop, but when your desk ends up as a mess of cables and pulling out and putting back your laptop becomes bothersome with having to attach/re-attach everything every time, having a dock makes it much simpler. Subjecting yourself to setting up all those cables on both ends instead of just one end is the opposite of having a mobile workstation for quick setup and cleanup.
There's no real reason why you'd have to choose having a few ports + a hub or tons of ports + the option of using a hub.
If you prefer to "consolidate" your devices to a single poinf of failure on an external device then by all means, go ahead. I just think that it's pretty crappy that options are being artificially limited and users of all people are making excuses for it.
Yeah, props to Apple for bringing back the card reader and HDMI. When I bought my early 2015 MBP I specifically went with the older model because these ports were removed on the newer one which also came with the shitty butterfly keyboard as well which they've also since discontinued.
Also, that's the total bandwidth in a best case scenario. You're not factoring in that you'll need to share that with all of the devices in a hub. That's without mentioning that you need the hub (which also has a cost).
The USB4 protocol can handle 160Gb/s split asymettrically (so, say, 120Gb/s out, 40Gb/s in), wheras the upper limit for DisplayPort's highest bandwidth mode, Quad UHBR 20, is 80Gb/s in one direction. So you can saturate your DisplayPort 2.0 quad-channel with more than enough bandwidth to power three 10K 60Hz 30-bit (i.e. very high-end) monitors in DSC mode, and still only be using half the bandwidth of USB4, all using a single cable which I can also use to charge my earphones.
The 2017 model pictured in this post supported Thunderbolt 3, which was a 40 gbps connection. Supported display modes included up to 4k@120, 2x4k@60, or 5k@60, which was better than the then-standard HDMI 2.0.
What combination of resolution, frame rate, and color depth are you envisioning that having a dock handle a gigabit Ethernet connection, analog audio would require scaling down the display resolution through the same port?
Even if we talk about DisplayPort Alt Mode, a VESA standard developed in 2014, and supported in the 2017 models pictured in this post, that's just a standard DP connection, which in 2017 supported HDR 5k@60. But didn't support a whole separate dock with networking and USB ports.
I'm no Apple fanboy (never owned a product of theirs and never will) but to be fair, those two USB-C ports can do everything the old, removed ports can do and more. The real crime here is not putting enough of them on the laptop.
Edit: The only port I'll lament the removal of is the headphone jack. USB-C headphones are rare, adapters get lost, and bluetooth headphones compress the audio and have input lag. Everything else can go, though, and won't be missed. (Okay fine ethernet can stay too.)
Is this rage bait? Those are different macbooks. I think the bottom ones are pros. My current Pro M2 has HDMI and magsafe. My M1 (Air?) is like the top one, but is not in fact a pro and therefore does not provide as many ports.
Yes this is rage bait using an old meme from back when Johnny Ive was working for Apple; the top MacBook is from 2015 and for the last few years they put back MagSafe, HDMI, headphone port, and SD card readers.
The MacBook Pro still doesn’t have USB-A ports. I have an apple silicon model for work and have to use multiple dongles to connect all my peripherals. This is ridiculous for a 2000+ dollar computer.
It’s insane they haven’t made the bolt adapter a C yet. You can get very cheap and tiny A->C adapters but come on. Plus Logitech uses different adapters for different series’.
I use an MX Master S and a G series clicky keyboard. They use different wireless adapters. I just connect via Bluetooth. Of course they also use different software managers also which is annoying.
I've found that while Bluetooth works well enough, my admittedly cheap Bluetooth mouse has an ever so slight lag to it. I only use it when out in the field working but it's disconcerting to say the least.
I’ve seen the same before as well. Strangely enough though, my newer MX Master 3S at my office seems to jitter less when using Bluetooth compared to my older Master 3 (non-S) at home.
USB-C has been out for 10 years and it’s a huge mess. For some devices it makes sense to switch like an external hard drive, but for things like a wired keyboard, I don’t need to repurchase it for USB-C, that serves no purpose.
If the keyboard has the cable attached, you can attach a tiny (and extremely cheap) adapter on the end and just leave it there, and if it's not attached, you can do that or just replace the cable.
Or you could just get one of the many laptops that still have a USB-A port.
Apple removing the disgusting pile of shit of a connector without a single redeeming quality was a big part of the fact that cables have C ends instead now.
Luckily you can buy several USB-A to USB-C adapters for ~$1 each, instead of demanding manufacturers persist an outdated spec — that's been superseded for a decade — and creating significantly more e-waste and headaches for everyone in the long run.
As someone who daily drives a laptop for work and does field work on server facilities, finding a modern replacement that has both a RJ45 port and square USB (USB-A?) ports available on both sides, has been a pain in the hassle.
And I'm not even crying over the loss of VGA any longer. That one I can live without.
USB-C does a lot of heavy lifting. Also, MagSafe™ is still there. A little surprised there is also a SD card slot. And a HDMI port. Not complaining about their inclusion, and I do use them regularly, but why did the dongle company give these to us?
That's what happens when designers boss engineers around. Form over function is pure cancer and it's becoming pervasive in our civilization due to the overwhelming ubiquity of propaganda(marketing). I have nothing but contempt for these trends.
Alright Elon, we know nobody tops your knowledge of manufacturing around the world. Apple has the best design team in the world, they have brought us genius inventions like on off buttons under desktop computers or charging USB-C ports under a mouse. I bow to the obvious error of my ways and sheepishly retract myself from this conversation.
Thank you from extracting yourself from your constant world saving design and manufacturing throne where you direct the machines for maximum efficiency only to reply to my low manufacturing knowledge self. Again I praise your descent from the heavens to bring about ample knowledge with your words instead of debasing yourself with snide remarks, themselves, devoid of any knowledgeable words.
But I already have peripheral devices with older connectors.
This just forces me to buy dongles.
Also, USB-C can only "do it all" on paper. In practice you have multiple sockets on any given device that support different subsets of the standard. If you're lucky, the capabilities are printed right on the device or in the manual. If you're unlucky you'll have to figure it out yourself.
But I already have peripheral devices with older connectors. This just forces me to buy dongles.
I already have a computer with USB-C - legacy connectors on peripherals force me to buy dongles.
Also, USB-C can only "do it all" on paper. In practice you have multiple sockets on any given device that support different subsets of the standard.
It's definitely not as good as it should've been, but as long as PC manufactures include as many standards as possible it should play well with whatever standard the peripherals are using.
I already have a computer with USB-C - legacy connectors on peripherals force me to buy dongles.
That's why I want my computer to have both.
It's definitely not as good as it should've been, but as long as PC manufactures include as many standards as possible it should play well with whatever standard the peripherals are using.
The big issue in my eyes is that they cut down on ports period. Yeah sure you can do it all. Here's 2 ports for your trouble. There's not a meaningful amount of them after. My current personal laptop has 2 USB a, one type c, HDMI and microsd. My work laptop is the same, but flipped usba and c. That's fine for a lot of people, including myself. But then you look at other machines like the xps 13 Plus which has like 2. Or a MacBook air. Which also has 2 but at least you get a headphone jack.
When a port is extremely high bandwidth, the number of them stops mattering much. I’m plugging everything into a dock via a single cable anyways, the rest go largely unused. We used to need a dozen ports because each one could only handle a single task and all were relatively low bandwidth.
Almost everything I have has a USB A or a DE-9 plug. I don't have a single peripheral that plugs into a USB C port. I don't want to deal with dongles and I'm certainly not going to replace my perfectly good hardware.
USB-C is fairly open, and USB4 can do most things Thunderbolt 3/4 can do, but there are exceptions like daisy-chaining. Thunderbolt 5 is also out now, and it has no open counterpart. And Thunderbolt is very much proprietary, requiring licensing and certification from Intel.
I miss having a thousand different cables to keep track of /s
really, all we need is the companies to start packing those laptops with thunderbolt3 or equivalent USB-C (USB 4). I love the old ports, but they were unnecessary. I'd rather the industry finally takes on the open thunderbolt standard and we're all good to go. With 10 thunderbolt ports you have 10 HDMI, or 10 USB, or 10 Ethernet, or 10 headphone jacks, or 10 RJ45 or whatever you need + PCIe tunneling.
My current phone lacks a headphone jack and I hate it. It would be okay if it was replaced with two usb c ports, but there's only one which means I either choose between headphones or charging, or I must use an adapter. Or wireless, but I don't want yet another fucking battery to charge.
I have one dock at home, one dock at work. The docks stay connected to the peripherals and I just have to plug in one cable into the laptop to connect everything. I much prefere that over having to plug in 3-4 different cables in the past.
I have one of the more recent models. When I sit down at my desk, I just plug it into a Thunderbolt dock anyway, through a single port. All those extra ports just sit unused, despite having a USB-A keyboard and mouse, Ethernet jack, and 4k monitor at that desk. Plus the dongle provides power to the laptop.
I do use the SD reader from time to time, though. I used to have an external reader that was a bit unwieldy on the laptop, but it was also a requirement from when I was shooting pictures on a CompactFlash, which has never had a built in reader on any laptop.
The desktop equivalent is
"What happened to all my PCIe expansion slots?!"
(Note: processor PCIe lane count has gone up, used to be like 16 from CPU, 4 from chipset, since a GPU didn't need an x1x6 in terms of bandwidth - see SLI/crossfire. These days, it's just that many lanes go to M.2, with each using up to 4 lanes - vs having 6 SATA driven off the chooser)
You just snap it onto the computer. No disassembly. No tools. No screws. All laptops and cell phones except Apple used to have them. You could carry several charged batteries with you and swap them as needed. Some laptops even used two, so you could hot swap with no power interruption.
And we walked to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways. :)
This post is actually so stupid, they didn't take shit from us, it's still right there.
Nobody uses a firewire cable anymore, USB-A/B is very outdated. On my work macbook with is a M1 Macbook Pro, I have a card reader, a usb-c and an hdmi port on one side, and a headphone jack, 2 usb-c ports and magsafe power ports.
Even if there wasn't, and it was just all usb-c, you can accomplish all of the same things ports. The old macbooks only had these ports on one side and the other had like one firewire or something.
USB-C can be used to deliver audio, video, ethernet connection, etc. You didn't lose any functionality. Worst case scenario you'd need a hub for the card readers or a usb to usb-c adapter, or ethernet to usb-c.
My work provided me with a usb hub that includes usb-a/b slots, hdmi, ethernet and power, which takes a single usb-c port. They're cheap and work just fine if you really need more than 4-5 ports.
Oh no! They took out ports the vast majority of users would never use in their entire life, making production cheaper and also making room for new technology to develop and evolve, while enabling whoever needs a specific port to simply buy a fucking dongle and get the job done. Oh and this also made it possible for the entire machine to be lighter and thinner, more thermally efficient and have infinitely better battery life.
Yeah which ports are folks actually missing here? Looking at various ports.
Magsafe: This has returned on the new machines. I like it for the green / orange charge indicator.
RJ-45: Ok I kinda of get it, but it’s such a tall port. Personally I’d prefer a thinner laptop in this instance.
Mini DVI: long dead. Replaced with HDMI. The MacBook pro’s have HDMI
FireWire: long dead
USB A: Replaced with USB-C. Ok one A port here would still be useful.
Headphone / Mic: Still there, just as a combo port on the other side.
SD card reader: The MacBook Pros have this.
Mini Display port: Long dead. Replaced with DP over USB C
In short if you want HDMI and SD card reader and are anti dongle you get a MBP which has both.
Either way now have ports that can push insane bandwidth and route USB, PCI, HDMI and DP over the same cable which is incredibly versatile.
All the people saying buy a dongle are forgetting to mention that dongles stop working all the fucking time. It's yet another potential point of failure that stops ALL work dead in its tracks if it happens.
On the other hand, ports on laptops fail too, so having several USB-C ports that can do basically everything is great for if one or two of them somehow break.
If the HDMI port on your laptop breaks, and the only other stuff you have is 3xUSB-A, ethernet, and an SD card slot, you're shit out of luck if you want to output to a monitor or TV.
Out of the two, you’re more likely to have the dongle break first. Those cables have a limited life of bending before snapping or the internal wiring coming undone or a failed connection or just cheap hardware. My first dongle I bought about 2 years ago is getting to that point with me carrying it in my backpack.
I still have my IBM ThinkPad running Windows 95 that has all of its ports still working to this day. The screen hinges are the only thing that has broken on it in all this time. Same for many other laptops I’ve had over the years. Even a gaming laptop I had had its plastic housing break along the sides of the ports due to a fall, but no ports were ever damaged or became inoperable in its life.
Laptops from the 2010s represented a peak in design and performance, but since then, it feels like we've seen consistent downsizing and downgrades. Take the latest Intel CPUs, for instance—it's as if the marketing pitch is, 'It may not be very powerful, but at least it’s energy-efficient.' It’s almost as though manufacturers are catering to a market they perceive as indifferent, and we, as consumers, continue to accept diminishing returns while paying increasingly higher prices. This trend reflects a broader issue in life today: settling for less while being charged more.
This picture captures the essence of that realization, and it is truly heart-wrenching.
To be fair, USB-C, especially with Thunderbolt, is much more universal. There are adapters for pretty much every "legacy" port out there so if you really need FireWire you can have it, but it's clear why FireWire isn't built into the laptop itself anymore.
The top MacBook Pro is also the 2016+ pre Apple Silicon chassis (that was also used with M chips, but sort of as a leftover), while the newer MacBook Pro chassis at least brought back HDMI and an SD card reader (and MagSafe as a dedicated charging port, although USB-C still works fine for that).
Considering modern "docking" solutions only need a single USB-C/Thunderbolt cable for everything, these additional ports only matter when on the go. HDMI comes in handy for presentations for example.
I'd love to see at least a single USB-A port on the MacBook Pro, but that's likely never coming back. USB-C to A adapters exist though, so it's not a huge deal. Ethernet can be handy as well, but most use cases for that are docked anyway.
I like the Framework concept the most, also "only" 4 ports (on the 13" at least, plus a built-in combo jack), but using adapter cards you can configure it to whatever you need at that point in time and the cards slide into the chassis instead of sticking out like dongles would. I usually go for one USB-C/Thunderbolt on either side (so charging works on either side), a single USB-A and video out in the form of DisplayPort or HDMI. Sometimes I swap the video out (that also works via USB-C obviously) for Ethernet, even though the Ethernet card sticks out. For a (retro) LAN party, I used 1 USB-C, USB-A (with a 4-port hub for wired peripherals), DisplayPort and Ethernet.
The new (not that new anymore) macbook PROs do have separate DC input, HDMI, SD card slot and HDMI. And to be honest, for an average computer user those ports are pretty useless, however if you do need them it comes at a rather steep premium.
Fades is either drinking Apple flavor Kool-Aid or has been fully brainwashed by apple into thinking everything is okay because a company said "you don't care, you're stuck here with us."
It's really sad how people will bootlick for any company once they bought enough products.
I believe that the topmost (M1?) MacBook still has a headphone Jack on the other (right-hand) side.
PS: by no means am I an apple fanboy, but I inherited an old Retina MacBook Pro that I installed Linux on and now use as my daily driver. It still holds up extremely well considering it's 11 years old. The only ports it's really missing is an RJ45 and (nowadays) USB-C.
to be fair, the bandwidth of all the ports on the bottom laptop probably fit in 1 (maaaaybe 2? Just spitballing here) Thunderbolt 5 ports depending how fast the ethernet port is. BTW, why would you want a port that isn't reversible like USB C lol...
I am happy that things have converged over time to a single, truly versatile multi-bus capable port (USB-C/Thunderbolt 3) ... however, the vendors IMHO should be legally bound to supply down-converters for all the peripherals that used the older buses for the next 10 years, transitively for 2 generations of buses.
If USB-C supports bus 'X', then there should be inexpensive and easy to purchase down-converters from USB-C to 'X'. If Bus 'X' replaced bus 'Y' in the last 10 years then there should be a down-converter available from bus 'X' to 'Y'.
One problematic example is Firewire.. Apple used to make Thunderbolt-2-to-Firewire800 dongles, but they stopped and now they're rare as hens' teeth and ungodly-expensive.
They still sell Thunderbolt-3-to-2 dongles, but how long will they keep selling those?
Oh, and while I'm wishing for ponies, the drivers/specifications for all such adapters should be open-source and royalty-free.
Back in the ‘90’s, they had every port you could imagine, and some STILL felt the need to use a docking station. You really can’t please everyone. I actually like the streamlined setup more these days. Because I’d rather have ports I actually use and that are fairly standardised, as opposed to a bunch of others that are of no use.
I never used most of the ports on my 90’s laptops. Never used a parallel port, PS2, never used the PCMCIA card slot, etc.
All I really need is a full sized HDMI, a few USB-C’s and one or two A’s for convenience.
I'm not very tech savy but for years I wondered if I could somehow cram a desktop computer in an aluminium suit case. The challenge is getting to the point I will just take it.
As long as the bare necessities is available e.g 14" with HDMI, 2 Type C with PD and DP Alt, MicroSD/SD card reader, smart card reader(?), 2 USB A 3.1, 1x 3.5mm jack, 1x ethernet port, kensington and easy maintenance, for me it's enough. VGA connectors (dang those older projectors) can be handled with VGA to HDMI adapter.
My daily device is T14 G1 AMD with dualbooting separate SSD (M.2 WWAN slot used as SSD).
And look how much thinner. A large part of that is the need for physical ports which although they may loom small on the outside, also take up space inside for the boards that convert signals. Now those conversions happen in the dongles if needed.
The real problem is that USB didn't implement a hub standard so most hubs have had to use old hub standards and just have a single USB-C connector and the rest USB-A, hdmi, etc. There haven't been many purely USB-C to USB-C hubs to allow for connecting lots of USB-C devices to a single port and usually they end up losing features or splitting bandwidth instead of sharing the full bandwidth.
My brand new ThinkPad P14s Gen 5 has HDMI, two USB-A 5Gbps ports, a headset jack, a half-height Ethernet port, as well as two thunderbolt 4 ports and an optional smartcard reader.
I agree that Apple kinda inadvertently ruined the port selection on many laptops for a while but it's gotten better over the years; even Apple brought back HDMI and SD-Card readers.
Honestly for some specific use cases where the computer being very light is needed, this is great, but the fact every mac has this now is a little crazy.
this is another reason why I hate apple. other tech companies would rather follow apple than forge their own design path.
I also hate the tech reviewers who reinforce the belief of apple design superiority that pushes this false belief that encourages those bad design changes.
I never use the ports on my laptop. It never bothered me that they removed them all. Granted I know that’s just my use case I can t speak for everyone.
Most things are wireless these days. I only actively use two ports: one for monitor + charging, and another for the second monitor. Mouse, keyboard and headphones are via Bluetooth.
For me the top one works fine for my day to day use. And it takes up less space in my backpack.
The sb part of the acronym means Serial Buss which is what all external peripherals used to connect to the system. The u part means Universal as in one size fits all. Every iteration of the spec has led up to this point. We had A,B,Micro, and now C. Everything could also be wireless today if there were enough spectrum available
This is my ~8 month old work laptop.
Is a Dell.
2 usb c not pictured.
You have options.
As long as you're not an apple cult member you do.
Apple brought back the mag charger.
I wish it still had the SD reader and one A port, but it doesn’t really come up that often. Just 3D printing and only because I’m too lazy to set up a octoprint server or whatever.
MBPs all have HDMI and SD slots… but Definitely set up the octopi with a cheap webcam. I’ve run one for years now and it’s so nice to be able to kick off and check on prints from my phone. Not to mention it doesn’t matter what computer I slice on and the files are small enough that I have gcode for almost everything I’ve printed for instant access to reprint whenever.
An octopi is a fun project, for mine I printed a new internal enclosure for the mainboard that has mounts for the pi, so the printer is completely integrated with it (never did finish setting up the internal power routing to power it directly off the power supply, but that's also completely doable)
I purposely don’t do the printer PS powers the octopi thing… I like to be able to drop some gcode on it for later or do updates when the printer isn’t on.
they do have SDXC card readers:
2024 16" macbook pro: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/121554
Ahh that’s nice, I bought the 2015 right after the Touch Bar pros went in sale because of the “you only need USB c now” ethos.
I later inherited a Touch Bar MacBook Pro, and it has frequent charging problems with USB C.
It’s gonna be time for an upgrade in a couple more years, and it’s nice to know that the new MBPs are sane again.
I was recently convinced that the M1 MBP is one of the cheapest and most cost effective laptops on the market right now. I know it sounds crazy but it appears to be true. You can get a m1 mbp refurbished (sometimes with warranty) for anywhere between $400 - $700. Making it a budget laptop. It also destroys anything in that price range in terms of performance and what you are getting.
We bought ours when it first came out after several terrible windows laptops. It still runs like new and there’s hasn’t been any need to consider upgrading (m1 air in our case). The biggest complaint is once or twice a year I need a usb c to an adapter for an old device or something.
I'm not in the Apple ecosystem but I have a 16" 32GB M1 MBP. It was given to me when I started my job as my work machine and the thing is a beast especially comparing it to all the terrible laptops Apple came out with prior (removal of mag safe, addition of touch bar, the keyboard issues). I still use that laptop for work today and it honestly doesn't even feel like it's aged a day. Everything is still extremely fast and I use my work laptop 8 hours a day for extremely demanding tasks (I'm a dev so things like running dozens of docker containers, compilation, Android emulators, multiple IDEs, etc).
Honestly agreed. For the majority of users that just do light office work and browsing it is a great piece of technology. Although i would say it is less about performance (because those people would be fine with even less) and more about build quality, battery life, fanless design and good screen.
The one issue i have with it is the 256gb non-removable storage. More actually than the 8gb RAM, which tbh for many people is enough for casual use.
I am still waiting for anyone not named apple to release a similarly priced fanless laptop with good build quality. With lunar lake it should finally be possible imo.
If you spend a little more (like $700) you can get 16gb ram and 512gb. For performance I think "light office work" is selling it short. It's more than capable of handling heavy office work IMO.
Link for the sales or it didn't happen.
Link here
Thanks for the link, I thought refurbished meant it would have warranty. Cool price if you're on a pinch although personally I would not gamble on it without a warranty.
Yeah, I guess it depends on what kind of work. I thought that for demanding office stuff the 8gb RAM might end up mattering after all.
But your $700 with warranty are an amazing deal that make this irrelevant. That really only leaves the single external monitor (without using workarounds) as downside.
Where I am in Europe however I don't think I could find the better specced models anywhere close to that price
It's beautiful.
While I personally prefer this, I'm going to guess that the majority of people are generally not going to be using more than 2 or three usb ports at once. My take is that for most people, 2 Cs, an A, DP or HDMI would be optimal.
The availability of BT and wifi peripherals make this acceptable for many.
I still have a cutting plotter that uses RS232, but that's connected to an oldish desktop, on the network, so a laptop never gets connected physically.
I'm not saying that this is good, simply that this is probably acceptable for many.
I have the same mac pictured above, and also a windows laptop with many ports.
The mac I plug into my work center via a single usb-c connection which charges it, connects it to my external monitor, and connects it to all of my USB equipment (about 6 items ranging from m&k to music equipment). Having only the one wire is huge in terms of making it easier to break down the machine from its setup and pack it up for the road.
The pc is connected separately to power as it can’t be powered through the usb-c, and to the monitor separately for some esoteric reason. So then I need a third cable to connect it to my equipment.
So in my case the less-is-more approach is actually preferable
that all being said
I’m sure other windows laptops can be configured with a one-wire solution just fine. And I don’t mean to pretend the 2x usb-c config was a popular choice or anything. Only on like two models or something had it. The newer macbooks brought back sd card slots and hdmi and everything by popular demand.
I looked into it and you can still run everything off of just one usb-c on those ones, so at the end of the day more options is just better for more people
Was just using a new ROG something something laptop for a job. The power connector is some little rectangle thing and it almost fit in a USBc. I was surprised when it was unique. 1 wire aint happening on that.
I do this with my Dell, which also has many ports ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank you for proving me correct!
Yep. My work laptop:
Haha I have almost exactly the same one. Probably a slightly older model. Works for most stuff but mine only has 8GB RAM which is a bit of a killer...
It's most likely expandable, have you checked?
It's a work laptop, not really my place to go fiddling with it, unfortunately
My 4 month old laptop has hdmi on the back, ethernet on the left, four usb 3.whatever slots with two on each side, two USB c slots on the right side, and a microsd slot.
I think it even has a 3.5mm headset jack but I'd have to get out of bed to check. I don't have any peripherals that use 3.5mm anymore though so it's just a nice little bonus.
What model of Dell is that?
Precision 3581
Dell makes some fantastic enterprise laptops
I don't. We have standardized on Macbook Pros at work because otherwise we'd have to use the company-issued image, which really sucks for development work (multi-day turnaround to get anything approved).
I'm interested in replacing my current laptop (E495 Thinkpad), and it's really hard to find anything sensible w/ an RJ-45 port, especially one w/ decent Linux support. I want something in a similar form factor (14", or 16" if the bezels are really thin), but with updated internals (nothing fancy, but the 3500U is getting a bit slow for casual gaming).
I've been thinking of a Framework laptop, but the RJ-45 port is wack, only having 4 ports kind of sucks (they could have better density with those ports), and it doesn't have the Trackpoint that I like so much about my Thinkpad. We'll see what I end up with when I actually buy one though, but maybe I'll have to take another look at Dell's professional line.
Not sure if the current generation still has it, but work issued us techs with ThinkPad L14 Gen 3 laptops and I've been happy with it as a work device. It has an RJ-45 (was considered a requirement when they procured the laptops for techs) and mine has a Ryzen 5 Pro 5675U. Only complaints I would have for it is soldered USB-C connectors (which double as the only power source for the machine) and keyboard isn't as nice as my personal T480 although definitely still fine.
I would caution against the 12th gen Intel i7 ThinkPads, we've had multiple internally have overheating issues or stuck in connected standby. My colleague wishes he never replaced his original work issue (same as mine).
The E14 and T14 still have them as well, and that's what I'm interested in. I used to buy T-series, but they started soldering the RAM, so I switched to E-series for my last one. I don't know if they solder RAM on the E14 though, they probably do.
I really miss my T440, which had a fantastic keyboard, but my E495 is still better than my Macbook Pro (hate that keyboard) and pretty much every other laptop I've used. Not sure how the newer Thinkpads are, but I definitely don't want those ultra-thin keyboards so many vendors are going with.
And yeah, I'll probably go AMD again, I want the APU perf and don't want a dGPU.
Look at all those ports I'll never need
We should have had USBC 20 years ago.
It's still cool to have options
That's what prisoners say. You are so conditioned to it that you prefer it.
You should probably look in a mirror, Mr. Prisoner.
You're the one asking to be constrained.
Your other comments are less nonsensical, so I'll only focus on this one.
My point was that defending the pissing contest over standards that gave us consumers six ports instead of one to do all the same tasks really misses the mark, imo.
Not really, i don't use usb-c for everything cause for me it gives no advantage. Like my LAN cable still works, my aux port is up-to my satisfaction, my DP port is straightforward.
Why should i go to USB-C if everything works? I'm not Anti Type-c but I'm also not Pro type-c, if that makes sense. I'll use it if I'm missing on some new tech.
The apple bois wont appreciate this
That's the way to do it. I just wish Framework had a better selection of modules available and had more module bays on their laptops.
Is a dongle that doesn’t dangle even really a dongle at all?
Doubtful.
no body shaming please
What module would you like to have.
I would like RS-232 and RS-485 modules and a full size SD card reader would be nice too. It's probably something I would end up building myself if I get a Framework laptop.
Edit: It looks like they have an SD card module now, nice.
I 3d printed a dongle that has a Logitech receiver in it. All their design files are online, so you can make your own pretty easily.
Oh, damn, that's a game changing idea there.
What would you do with RS-232 and RS-485?
Time travel
Hook up my US Robotics 56k modem and dial up to the internet, where I can chat with hot babes
404
Hot babes not found
After your training to become a cage fighter, I presume?
I have a 485 adapter in my bag for BACnet and Modbus communications.
And what the hell, add RS-422 while you're at it. And a parallel port! And the left side expansion port they used to have on the Amiga 500 and 1000!
And some ISDN BRI ports. And ATM and FDDI. And something I can do X.25 over. Oh, and Token Ring.
UART consoles and model train control systems come to mind.
You’d be surprised to know how much of the world’s manufacturing infrastructure still uses it.
-485 is superior. Everyone knows it
I just wish the existing dongles had a bit more density to them. That's a lot of space for a micro-SD slot, they totally could have fit a full SD card in there as well, and perhaps even a micro-USB or headphone jack.
I like being able to swap them, but each USB-C port can handle a lot more than a single-use dongle.
Right?! If you’re going through the all trouble of mass producing the modules, etc., make them worth it. As it is, it’s a bunch of expensive squares.
Why are the modules so wide?
I guess they have to be the same, so they all have to be the maximum width of anything you might want to put in there.
That's hot af
In case you're not aware, that's a Framework laptop.
Is it still owned by LTT? I don't particularly like this LTT though.
Owned? The kid just bought stock.
Yup. If you limited your purchases to companies not partly owned by people you don't like, you couldn't buy from any public company and would have a very small selection from private companies.
Buy products that make sense, screw whoever else invests in it.
I didn't knew. I thought it was co founded by him or something.
Nowhere near owned. LTT made a small investment.
Okay good.
I'll be in my bunk.
I will always upvote a relevant Firefly reference.
yea this is the way. is only they had more high end components
Eh, I'd much rather have a USB-C dongle built-in to the laptop than in a separate bag that I'm definitely going to lose.
That also means we can still use the expansion cards for the Framework in any other device that also has a USB-C port. Need an SD card reader or a 2.5Gb LAN adapter? Not a problem, I'll just grab one from my laptop.
Love mine.
I have a framework, and while this system is pretty cool, I don't change the cards often and I only have 4 cards. I'd rather have some more built-in ports too.
I don't change them ever. But I have the exact set of ports I need now
That's one of the cool things about the framework, though, just the fact that you can, because I swap my ports all the time. I use it to game on my big TV at home, but I almost never need an HDMI port on the go, so I pop it out and pop in another USB-C or something.
ok but where's the pcmcia slot! /sees myself out
It's SDCARD since like 1999. Sheesh, get current mate! 🤣
Oh my god
Framework baby!!!
This is the way
still only 4 ports thou
What a waste of chassis space.
Yeah, I wish they had 2 dedicated USB-C ports (one on each side) and had the four swappable bays. The RJ-45 port also look really dumb, I think they could have done something a bit more clever there.
I dunno - I’m pretty sure I’d choose the modern MacBook Pro’s ports over any of these other options.
We’re mindlessly bashing Apple here, we don’t need your sensible reasoning!
From my personal experience Apple products aren’t as great as the fanboys claim but are far far better than they haters say they are.
Where do you see Apple bashing? Most comments are about the general state of notebook ports.
Continue bashing, they use apple maths and only have ports on expensive models.
That picture is from the tech specs page of the base 14-inch
If you got that kind of money to spend on a laptop, sure. I really don't.
Edit: to be clear, I know this is a stack of Mac's in OPs picture, but the development that the entry models have basically no ports at all is a more recent development. Having to pick the pro just to be able to connect your stuff without dongles or hubs is a bit insane considering the price (and price difference).
It really depends on what you use your laptop for. My 2013 MBP lasted 9 years and was how I got my work done. That comes out to 76¢ per day, and I make a fair bit more than that per hour.
But if you’re looking for a personal computer to surf the internet, yes, that could be cost prohibitive. But then it also matters less what device you buy.
As for ports, I’ve never needed a dongle on the 2013 model. I did need one for a USB A drive on the newest model, but this little thing has solved that problem easily. I didn’t even have to buy that since my monitor has USB A ports – I was just too lazy to reach around the back to use it every time. I’m not sure I understand all the complaints about the occasional need for a dongle.
I have an M2 Air, and all mine is missing from that is the SDXC slot, third TB4 and HDMI, and honestly, it's fine. A third TB4/USB would be nice for when I'm doing my radio show and have to plug in my controller and mic while also charing my phone, but I already have a hub so it doesn't bother me.
That said, the limited ports on my M1 mini are quite problematic. Two TB3/USB and two USB3, but one of them is lost to a DisplayPort cable for my second monitor. So I have a desktop computer that functionally has three USB sockets, which ain't great. But again, I have a hub, so it's not a huge problem.
An ethernet port is essential for any computer.
Exactly! What are you going to do if your router dies (or you mess something up fiddling w/ things)? I may only need it once/year or so, but when I do, it's really important and I most likely can't find the dongle.
An RJ-45 port could totally fit on there if they used one of those flip-down things that Dell has on their professional line.
I just this … https://a.co/d/ijxaPae
Only issue I have is max 65W PD, which should be fine for most laptops, but some laptops can charge at 100W.
It’s really not. I have one on my work laptop and have never plugged an Ethernet jack into it. That stays permanently in my dock and gets transferred to the laptop via USB-C. All other non-desk work is done via … WiFi. Shock! Literally can’t tell the difference when making money.
Power, HDMI, a few USBs, and headphones, all you'll ever likely need.
There's no doubt a dongle for anything else.
Yes, and it’s better to be downgrading USB-C ports with adapters than to be stuck adapting a USB-A port to USB-C or ethernet.
SD card reader is nice to have if you fuck around with cameras and microphones.
Yeah, that can stay too.
Cause I live toting a do gle around and risk breaking the laptop because of it.
I did enough of that in the 90's, TYVM
in the ’90s*
Username checks out.
Cause I live toting a do gle around and risk breaking the laptop because of it.
I did enough of that in the 90's, TYVM
in the ’90s*
Unless you want a desk setup. I have 2 monitors, kb, mouse, external dac, usb extension for thumbdrives, ethernet, usb soundcard for my mic and a kvm. That's dp, hdmi, 6 usb-a, ethernet and I still sometimes plug-in 1-3 devices to charge them.
With that many connections, using a dock or a monitor with thunderbolt seems more practical than having a ton of stuff plugged into your laptop.
It's not about it being practical. It's about if it's actually doable or not and how well it would work. Having the native ports will always be better that using a hub/dock.
Strongly disagree. I use a laptop with a thunderbolt dock. Being able to plug in a single cable to provide power, connect my monitor, all of my input devices, Ethernet, and anything else in a single cable is awesome. If I had to plug 10 things in manually it would be quite cumbersome. I disconnect the laptop daily as I bring it between work and home, as well as use it, well, as a portable laptop.
Kudos to you.
What you could do now is step out of your bubble and consider that other people have different use cases and might need or prefer to have more native ports.
You literally lose nothing by having more connectivity options.
Except the device inevitably ends up bigger and chunkier.
Yeah, because plugging in one thing is way harder than plugging in six.
This is a classic use case for a laptop dock.
That's a very lazy, short-sighted and first world problem way of looking at this issue.
Why would having the option of using either a hub or plugging things on separately be worse than only being able to use a hub?
Because I don't want a chonky boi laptop to carry around.
It sounds like you need a desktop computer or a docking station.
That's a use case for a laptop dock if ever there was one.
Like I already said to another user: No. There are more than a few use cases that require a mobile set up for demos for example but that you’d also want to use in a desk setting. For example, architects or sw dev.
Why are you making an effort to justify getting shafted by corporations?
In this situation a hub is still better. You can pack all the stuff away plugged into the hub for easier set up. If your plugging that all into your laptop, you’ll need to plug it all back in again when you move.
Which might be an issue for you but it's not for me. Also, I prefer the flexibility to have all of the ports I might need, natively.
We aren’t justifying getting shafted by corporations. What I and the other person are saying is that at some point as your connections and cables multiply, you need to consolidate and streamline your setup for it to be more practical and actually mobile. I’m all for having all the basic necessity ports on my laptop, but when your desk ends up as a mess of cables and pulling out and putting back your laptop becomes bothersome with having to attach/re-attach everything every time, having a dock makes it much simpler. Subjecting yourself to setting up all those cables on both ends instead of just one end is the opposite of having a mobile workstation for quick setup and cleanup.
You're still missing the forest for the trees.
There's no real reason why you'd have to choose having a few ports + a hub or tons of ports + the option of using a hub.
If you prefer to "consolidate" your devices to a single poinf of failure on an external device then by all means, go ahead. I just think that it's pretty crappy that options are being artificially limited and users of all people are making excuses for it.
Zero USB-A ports? Hell, no...
Yeah, props to Apple for bringing back the card reader and HDMI. When I bought my early 2015 MBP I specifically went with the older model because these ports were removed on the newer one which also came with the shitty butterfly keyboard as well which they've also since discontinued.
Yeah M1+ Macs are great. I say this as a diehard Apple hater
Fuck firewire. Glad it's dead. USB C is the best thing to happen to peripherals since the mouse.
As long as a computer has 4 usb-c ports, I think you’re covered for everything.
Yes we had more different ports back in the days, but most were never used.
Usb-c is way more practical. Still that implies that you have more than 2 Usb-c ports.
At work both my monitors and networking go through the same port. The monitor also acts as a usb hub.
You can buy an adapter and plug everything in one port.
I love it personally.
I only have one Usb-c port on my Surface Go 1, but it’s linked to my screen with 4 usb-A ports and one more Usb-c port.
Same as you, I feel I have enough, at least when it’s hooked up to the screen.
You can only do that because your monitors are not high resolution and high refresh rate. The data cap for usb-c is not that high.
USB-C is just a connector, but Thunderbolt 5 uses it and for asymmetric uses (e.g. a monitor) it can hit 120Gbps.
Isn’t that going to support most monitors?
Please, list the devices that you know have tb5.
Also, that's the total bandwidth in a best case scenario. You're not factoring in that you'll need to share that with all of the devices in a hub. That's without mentioning that you need the hub (which also has a cost).
The USB4 protocol can handle 160Gb/s split asymettrically (so, say, 120Gb/s out, 40Gb/s in), wheras the upper limit for DisplayPort's highest bandwidth mode, Quad UHBR 20, is 80Gb/s in one direction. So you can saturate your DisplayPort 2.0 quad-channel with more than enough bandwidth to power three 10K 60Hz 30-bit (i.e. very high-end) monitors in DSC mode, and still only be using half the bandwidth of USB4, all using a single cable which I can also use to charge my earphones.
Can you break this down?
The 2017 model pictured in this post supported Thunderbolt 3, which was a 40 gbps connection. Supported display modes included up to 4k@120, 2x4k@60, or 5k@60, which was better than the then-standard HDMI 2.0.
What combination of resolution, frame rate, and color depth are you envisioning that having a dock handle a gigabit Ethernet connection, analog audio would require scaling down the display resolution through the same port?
By 2021, the MacBook Pros were supporting TB4, and the spec sheets on third party docking stations were supporting 8k resolutions, even if Macs themselves only supported 6k, or up to 4x4k.
Even if we talk about DisplayPort Alt Mode, a VESA standard developed in 2014, and supported in the 2017 models pictured in this post, that's just a standard DP connection, which in 2017 supported HDR 5k@60. But didn't support a whole separate dock with networking and USB ports.
Yeah guys it's way more practical to carry 11 usb c dongles everywhere you go
I'm no Apple fanboy (never owned a product of theirs and never will) but to be fair, those two USB-C ports can do everything the old, removed ports can do and more. The real crime here is not putting enough of them on the laptop.
Edit: The only port I'll lament the removal of is the headphone jack. USB-C headphones are rare, adapters get lost, and bluetooth headphones compress the audio and have input lag. Everything else can go, though, and won't be missed. (Okay fine ethernet can stay too.)
And there's the soldered RAM and storage, and glued-in or screwed-in battery...
To make our laptops look clean and minimalistic, they made us buy a bunch of dongles and adapters.
Screw it, I'm buying a rugged laptop with the thickness of a desktop PC next
Is this rage bait? Those are different macbooks. I think the bottom ones are pros. My current Pro M2 has HDMI and magsafe. My M1 (Air?) is like the top one, but is not in fact a pro and therefore does not provide as many ports.
It’s a repost of a 6 year old Reddit post.
Yes this is rage bait using an old meme from back when Johnny Ive was working for Apple; the top MacBook is from 2015 and for the last few years they put back MagSafe, HDMI, headphone port, and SD card readers.
Imagine seeing a stack of macbooks and becoming enraged!
The MacBook Pro still doesn’t have USB-A ports. I have an apple silicon model for work and have to use multiple dongles to connect all my peripherals. This is ridiculous for a 2000+ dollar computer.
I like USB C - mostly. If only Logitech would actually create a tiny usb-c unifying receiver...
It’s insane they haven’t made the bolt adapter a C yet. You can get very cheap and tiny A->C adapters but come on. Plus Logitech uses different adapters for different series’.
I use an MX Master S and a G series clicky keyboard. They use different wireless adapters. I just connect via Bluetooth. Of course they also use different software managers also which is annoying.
I've found that while Bluetooth works well enough, my admittedly cheap Bluetooth mouse has an ever so slight lag to it. I only use it when out in the field working but it's disconcerting to say the least.
I’ve seen the same before as well. Strangely enough though, my newer MX Master 3S at my office seems to jitter less when using Bluetooth compared to my older Master 3 (non-S) at home.
USB-C has been out for 10 years and it’s a huge mess. For some devices it makes sense to switch like an external hard drive, but for things like a wired keyboard, I don’t need to repurchase it for USB-C, that serves no purpose.
Nobody's telling you to repurchase.
If the keyboard has the cable attached, you can attach a tiny (and extremely cheap) adapter on the end and just leave it there, and if it's not attached, you can do that or just replace the cable.
Or you could just get one of the many laptops that still have a USB-A port.
As an fyi, the USB 4 spec doesn't include USB A anymore; only USB C.
Good.
Apple removing the disgusting pile of shit of a connector without a single redeeming quality was a big part of the fact that cables have C ends instead now.
Wired keyboard and mouse, USB sticks/thumb drive, and USB-A to lightning cable. I think I have more USB-A peripherals than USB-C.
I think I have two.
Luckily you can buy several USB-A to USB-C adapters for ~$1 each, instead of demanding manufacturers persist an outdated spec — that's been superseded for a decade — and creating significantly more e-waste and headaches for everyone in the long run.
I’m glad I can plug in one port and have a dual display setup, all peripherals, speakers, ethernet, charging, etc connected at my desk in one go.
If I want to leave, unplug one thing and I’m good to go.
I'm on the other side wishing peripherals would catch up and all become USB-C already. I'm tired of USB-A.
They remove the extra ports because they take up space in the board.
That aside if you’re buying Mac you took it from yourself. No one made you buy it.
As someone who daily drives a laptop for work and does field work on server facilities, finding a modern replacement that has both a RJ45 port and square USB (USB-A?) ports available on both sides, has been a pain in the hassle.
And I'm not even crying over the loss of VGA any longer. That one I can live without.
The annoying thing is they're not even that much thinner. They've just reshaped the edge to make it look like there isn't room for real ports.
USB-C does a lot of heavy lifting. Also, MagSafe™ is still there. A little surprised there is also a SD card slot. And a HDMI port. Not complaining about their inclusion, and I do use them regularly, but why did the dongle company give these to us?
That's what happens when designers boss engineers around. Form over function is pure cancer and it's becoming pervasive in our civilization due to the overwhelming ubiquity of propaganda(marketing). I have nothing but contempt for these trends.
Good function will usually result into nice form anyways. Like old thinkpads for example.
Enjoy this wonderful Posy video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjKjZwd_KY0
I love that there's a relevant Posy video that is only 22hrs old
"Designers boss engineers".
That's what happens when people who know nothing about the industry post their word soup as fact.
Alright Elon, we know nobody tops your knowledge of manufacturing around the world. Apple has the best design team in the world, they have brought us genius inventions like on off buttons under desktop computers or charging USB-C ports under a mouse. I bow to the obvious error of my ways and sheepishly retract myself from this conversation.
This isn't Reddit.
You could've done this without announcing it and the additional word soup.
Thank you from extracting yourself from your constant world saving design and manufacturing throne where you direct the machines for maximum efficiency only to reply to my low manufacturing knowledge self. Again I praise your descent from the heavens to bring about ample knowledge with your words instead of debasing yourself with snide remarks, themselves, devoid of any knowledgeable words.
Ok, redditor.
No u
The consumer does not appear to mind, unfortunately.
I'm good with it to be honest. One port that can do it all. Not proprietary.
The longer we keep including legacy ports the longer they'll stick around on peripheral devices
Manufactures won't change until forced. The transition period might be a bit painful, but worth it.
But I already have peripheral devices with older connectors. This just forces me to buy dongles.
Also, USB-C can only "do it all" on paper. In practice you have multiple sockets on any given device that support different subsets of the standard. If you're lucky, the capabilities are printed right on the device or in the manual. If you're unlucky you'll have to figure it out yourself.
You’re usually safe with Apple’s Type-C port supporting a lot.
Didn't they have issues with previous MBPs where they'd charge slower on one side than on the other without apple acknowledging it?
But that aside Apple is pretty good ad supporting mostly everything. Other manufacturers are way worse in that regard.
I already have a computer with USB-C - legacy connectors on peripherals force me to buy dongles.
It's definitely not as good as it should've been, but as long as PC manufactures include as many standards as possible it should play well with whatever standard the peripherals are using.
That's why I want my computer to have both.
Until it doesn't.
The big issue in my eyes is that they cut down on ports period. Yeah sure you can do it all. Here's 2 ports for your trouble. There's not a meaningful amount of them after. My current personal laptop has 2 USB a, one type c, HDMI and microsd. My work laptop is the same, but flipped usba and c. That's fine for a lot of people, including myself. But then you look at other machines like the xps 13 Plus which has like 2. Or a MacBook air. Which also has 2 but at least you get a headphone jack.
When a port is extremely high bandwidth, the number of them stops mattering much. I’m plugging everything into a dock via a single cable anyways, the rest go largely unused. We used to need a dozen ports because each one could only handle a single task and all were relatively low bandwidth.
For sure, 3 on one side and 2 on the other minimum.
Almost everything I have has a USB A or a DE-9 plug. I don't have a single peripheral that plugs into a USB C port. I don't want to deal with dongles and I'm certainly not going to replace my perfectly good hardware.
Eh, it's been a standard for nearly a decade now. We'd still be on DVI with this attitude.
You don't have to replace anything, but you will have to buy a cheap USB-C -> USB-A dongle
USB-C is fairly open, and USB4 can do most things Thunderbolt 3/4 can do, but there are exceptions like daisy-chaining. Thunderbolt 5 is also out now, and it has no open counterpart. And Thunderbolt is very much proprietary, requiring licensing and certification from Intel.
I miss having a thousand different cables to keep track of /s
really, all we need is the companies to start packing those laptops with thunderbolt3 or equivalent USB-C (USB 4). I love the old ports, but they were unnecessary. I'd rather the industry finally takes on the open thunderbolt standard and we're all good to go. With 10 thunderbolt ports you have 10 HDMI, or 10 USB, or 10 Ethernet, or 10 headphone jacks, or 10 RJ45 or whatever you need + PCIe tunneling.
USB-C is awesome though. I carry one charger amd dongle for HDMI and ethernet. It serves my many devices including Steam Deck, phone and laptop.
I actually prefer the standardization here. Sick of having 2 boxes of different cords.
My current phone lacks a headphone jack and I hate it. It would be okay if it was replaced with two usb c ports, but there's only one which means I either choose between headphones or charging, or I must use an adapter. Or wireless, but I don't want yet another fucking battery to charge.
Oh yes, the port that HTML passes through
Apple has always been an appearance over function company.
I don't see the problem. Type-C ports can replace all those ports. If you want more ports, buy a dock.
And that becomes annoying if you constantly need more devices connected than what the Mac offers, and constantly have bring the dock.
In the past that was a non-issue. I can see why people would be annoyed by changes like that.
I have one dock at home, one dock at work. The docks stay connected to the peripherals and I just have to plug in one cable into the laptop to connect everything. I much prefere that over having to plug in 3-4 different cables in the past.
I have no horses in this race either as I have the same setup (with a non-Mac laptop).
Just pointing out why Mac owners might be peefed off by the changes, that is all.
Porque no los dos?
i only have room for 2 thumbs
Who’s got two thumbs and room for them only?
And this picture doesn’t show the more recent models with the mag lock power, hdmi, and sd card reader.
Type c ports are the best. I connect my monitor through one and it has a type ports on it for a wired keyboard and speakers.
I can just plug my laptop into a monitor via USB-C, and with that one cable I have:
the display/audio signal going to the monitor
USB passthrough to the monitor that has my wireless KB+M dongle plugged into it
65W charging for my laptop
It's great.
I have one of the more recent models. When I sit down at my desk, I just plug it into a Thunderbolt dock anyway, through a single port. All those extra ports just sit unused, despite having a USB-A keyboard and mouse, Ethernet jack, and 4k monitor at that desk. Plus the dongle provides power to the laptop.
I do use the SD reader from time to time, though. I used to have an external reader that was a bit unwieldy on the laptop, but it was also a requirement from when I was shooting pictures on a CompactFlash, which has never had a built in reader on any laptop.
It is a straight downgrade. The day you forgot to bring the dongle you are stranded.
The desktop equivalent is "What happened to all my PCIe expansion slots?!"
(Note: processor PCIe lane count has gone up, used to be like 16 from CPU, 4 from chipset, since a GPU didn't need an x1x6 in terms of bandwidth - see SLI/crossfire. These days, it's just that many lanes go to M.2, with each using up to 4 lanes - vs having 6 SATA driven off the chooser)
Where is the removable battery? Did ANY Apple laptops have that?
Yes, pre 2013 models had a screwed in battery. I had a 2011 pro that I changed/upgraded the ram, hard drive, and battery myself.
Oh sweet child. What has Apple done to people? A removable battery looks like this:
https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-x220-x220i-x230i-replacement-battery
You just snap it onto the computer. No disassembly. No tools. No screws. All laptops and cell phones except Apple used to have them. You could carry several charged batteries with you and swap them as needed. Some laptops even used two, so you could hot swap with no power interruption.
And we walked to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways. :)
This post is actually so stupid, they didn't take shit from us, it's still right there.
Nobody uses a firewire cable anymore, USB-A/B is very outdated. On my work macbook with is a M1 Macbook Pro, I have a card reader, a usb-c and an hdmi port on one side, and a headphone jack, 2 usb-c ports and magsafe power ports.
Even if there wasn't, and it was just all usb-c, you can accomplish all of the same things ports. The old macbooks only had these ports on one side and the other had like one firewire or something.
USB-C can be used to deliver audio, video, ethernet connection, etc. You didn't lose any functionality. Worst case scenario you'd need a hub for the card readers or a usb to usb-c adapter, or ethernet to usb-c.
My work provided me with a usb hub that includes usb-a/b slots, hdmi, ethernet and power, which takes a single usb-c port. They're cheap and work just fine if you really need more than 4-5 ports.
Don't take it from me though!
2024 16" macbook pro: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/121554
Not Lenovo, my ThinkPad P1 has lots of nice ports
Oh no! They took out ports the vast majority of users would never use in their entire life, making production cheaper and also making room for new technology to develop and evolve, while enabling whoever needs a specific port to simply buy a fucking dongle and get the job done. Oh and this also made it possible for the entire machine to be lighter and thinner, more thermally efficient and have infinitely better battery life.
The horror 🙄
Yeah which ports are folks actually missing here? Looking at various ports.
Magsafe: This has returned on the new machines. I like it for the green / orange charge indicator. RJ-45: Ok I kinda of get it, but it’s such a tall port. Personally I’d prefer a thinner laptop in this instance. Mini DVI: long dead. Replaced with HDMI. The MacBook pro’s have HDMI FireWire: long dead USB A: Replaced with USB-C. Ok one A port here would still be useful. Headphone / Mic: Still there, just as a combo port on the other side. SD card reader: The MacBook Pros have this. Mini Display port: Long dead. Replaced with DP over USB C
In short if you want HDMI and SD card reader and are anti dongle you get a MBP which has both.
Either way now have ports that can push insane bandwidth and route USB, PCI, HDMI and DP over the same cable which is incredibly versatile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB
HDMI has always been inferior to DisplayPort, for computer displays. I'd personally consider DP to be the natural successor to DVI.
All my laptops have a battery as shitty as ten years ago.
Then get a Mac.
Eh, I'm talking about real computers, not devices that cosplay as one.
How cutting.
All the people saying buy a dongle are forgetting to mention that dongles stop working all the fucking time. It's yet another potential point of failure that stops ALL work dead in its tracks if it happens.
On the other hand, ports on laptops fail too, so having several USB-C ports that can do basically everything is great for if one or two of them somehow break.
If the HDMI port on your laptop breaks, and the only other stuff you have is 3xUSB-A, ethernet, and an SD card slot, you're shit out of luck if you want to output to a monitor or TV.
Out of the two, you’re more likely to have the dongle break first. Those cables have a limited life of bending before snapping or the internal wiring coming undone or a failed connection or just cheap hardware. My first dongle I bought about 2 years ago is getting to that point with me carrying it in my backpack.
I still have my IBM ThinkPad running Windows 95 that has all of its ports still working to this day. The screen hinges are the only thing that has broken on it in all this time. Same for many other laptops I’ve had over the years. Even a gaming laptop I had had its plastic housing break along the sides of the ports due to a fall, but no ports were ever damaged or became inoperable in its life.
You're not really expected to repeatedly remove the HDMI port itself from the laptop
They still break
Laptops from the 2010s represented a peak in design and performance, but since then, it feels like we've seen consistent downsizing and downgrades. Take the latest Intel CPUs, for instance—it's as if the marketing pitch is, 'It may not be very powerful, but at least it’s energy-efficient.' It’s almost as though manufacturers are catering to a market they perceive as indifferent, and we, as consumers, continue to accept diminishing returns while paying increasingly higher prices. This trend reflects a broader issue in life today: settling for less while being charged more.
This picture captures the essence of that realization, and it is truly heart-wrenching.
To be fair, USB-C, especially with Thunderbolt, is much more universal. There are adapters for pretty much every "legacy" port out there so if you really need FireWire you can have it, but it's clear why FireWire isn't built into the laptop itself anymore.
The top MacBook Pro is also the 2016+ pre Apple Silicon chassis (that was also used with M chips, but sort of as a leftover), while the newer MacBook Pro chassis at least brought back HDMI and an SD card reader (and MagSafe as a dedicated charging port, although USB-C still works fine for that).
Considering modern "docking" solutions only need a single USB-C/Thunderbolt cable for everything, these additional ports only matter when on the go. HDMI comes in handy for presentations for example.
I'd love to see at least a single USB-A port on the MacBook Pro, but that's likely never coming back. USB-C to A adapters exist though, so it's not a huge deal. Ethernet can be handy as well, but most use cases for that are docked anyway.
I like the Framework concept the most, also "only" 4 ports (on the 13" at least, plus a built-in combo jack), but using adapter cards you can configure it to whatever you need at that point in time and the cards slide into the chassis instead of sticking out like dongles would. I usually go for one USB-C/Thunderbolt on either side (so charging works on either side), a single USB-A and video out in the form of DisplayPort or HDMI. Sometimes I swap the video out (that also works via USB-C obviously) for Ethernet, even though the Ethernet card sticks out. For a (retro) LAN party, I used 1 USB-C, USB-A (with a 4-port hub for wired peripherals), DisplayPort and Ethernet.
(My 2020 G14 has 3 A ports and ethernet, but still...)
The pursuit of the "perfect body."
Not all. If I dont get 2 USB-A ports, I ain't buying. Fortunately thinkpads still have them
I love it personally. At work I have two monitors, networking, mouse and keyboard all going through one port. So much easier in my opinion.
ThinkPad gang laughing in redundant tf ports
Well do you sell me a docking station with that laptop?
Or are you going to let me get buy some adapter dongles?
How about more USB c ports?
The new (not that new anymore) macbook PROs do have separate DC input, HDMI, SD card slot and HDMI. And to be honest, for an average computer user those ports are pretty useless, however if you do need them it comes at a rather steep premium.
Look how they massacred my boy.
Fades is either drinking Apple flavor Kool-Aid or has been fully brainwashed by apple into thinking everything is okay because a company said "you don't care, you're stuck here with us."
It's really sad how people will bootlick for any company once they bought enough products.
The 2nd from top has two lightning sparks. To charge the laptop, I have to connect them to the two holes in my outlet, right?
And everyone went ahead and purchased it anyway.
Companies always chase profit, if people would stop buying shittified products companies would stop enshittifying them.
I believe that the topmost (M1?) MacBook still has a headphone Jack on the other (right-hand) side.
PS: by no means am I an apple fanboy, but I inherited an old Retina MacBook Pro that I installed Linux on and now use as my daily driver. It still holds up extremely well considering it's 11 years old. The only ports it's really missing is an RJ45 and (nowadays) USB-C.
Wow is that firewire? Haven't seen that in a while
we need 7 firewire ports and micro dvi ports with 1 mini usb
Just one port to rule them all
Do the bottom two have the same charging port? Impossible!
Also, my first time seeing the newer FireWire and whatever the video output is...
Even Lenovo is doing it with Thinkpads, the t14 gen 6 has soldiered ram and only two USB A ports
Lenovo is only a shadow of its former self. Get used to it; everything gets sacrified for the god Mammon and the sake of slimness.
Even the latest P series:
https://laptopmedia.com/au/guides/how-to-open-lenovo-thinkpad-p14s-gen-4-disassembly-and-upgrade-options/
You can only add/swap a M.2 SSD, and WWAN modem.
They've added upgradable RAM with the Gen 5 models. The WIFI card is soldered, though, which isn't as bad but still meh for longevity IMO
Even worse, build quality and durability is significantly worse due to Lenovo making the T and P series Thinkpads thinner and lighter.
Useless old school holes? I am glad they did.
If it doesn't have a VGA port, I don't use it.
to be fair, the bandwidth of all the ports on the bottom laptop probably fit in 1 (maaaaybe 2? Just spitballing here) Thunderbolt 5 ports depending how fast the ethernet port is. BTW, why would you want a port that isn't reversible like USB C lol...
I am happy that things have converged over time to a single, truly versatile multi-bus capable port (USB-C/Thunderbolt 3) ... however, the vendors IMHO should be legally bound to supply down-converters for all the peripherals that used the older buses for the next 10 years, transitively for 2 generations of buses.
If USB-C supports bus 'X', then there should be inexpensive and easy to purchase down-converters from USB-C to 'X'. If Bus 'X' replaced bus 'Y' in the last 10 years then there should be a down-converter available from bus 'X' to 'Y'.
One problematic example is Firewire.. Apple used to make Thunderbolt-2-to-Firewire800 dongles, but they stopped and now they're rare as hens' teeth and ungodly-expensive.
They still sell Thunderbolt-3-to-2 dongles, but how long will they keep selling those?
Oh, and while I'm wishing for ponies, the drivers/specifications for all such adapters should be open-source and royalty-free.
Asus G16 2023 has 2 USB-A, 2 USB-C (one of them supports Thunderbolt), Ethernet, HDMI, 3.5 mm jack, and a micro-SD slot.
Back in the ‘90’s, they had every port you could imagine, and some STILL felt the need to use a docking station. You really can’t please everyone. I actually like the streamlined setup more these days. Because I’d rather have ports I actually use and that are fairly standardised, as opposed to a bunch of others that are of no use.
I never used most of the ports on my 90’s laptops. Never used a parallel port, PS2, never used the PCMCIA card slot, etc.
All I really need is a full sized HDMI, a few USB-C’s and one or two A’s for convenience.
Buy dongles and splitter dongles.
I'm not very tech savy but for years I wondered if I could somehow cram a desktop computer in an aluminium suit case. The challenge is getting to the point I will just take it.
Meh... Did they really? Or do you just choose the worst?
As long as the bare necessities is available e.g 14" with HDMI, 2 Type C with PD and DP Alt, MicroSD/SD card reader, smart card reader(?), 2 USB A 3.1, 1x 3.5mm jack, 1x ethernet port, kensington and easy maintenance, for me it's enough. VGA connectors (dang those older projectors) can be handled with VGA to HDMI adapter.
My daily device is T14 G1 AMD with dualbooting separate SSD (M.2 WWAN slot used as SSD).
And look how much thinner. A large part of that is the need for physical ports which although they may loom small on the outside, also take up space inside for the boards that convert signals. Now those conversions happen in the dongles if needed.
The real problem is that USB didn't implement a hub standard so most hubs have had to use old hub standards and just have a single USB-C connector and the rest USB-A, hdmi, etc. There haven't been many purely USB-C to USB-C hubs to allow for connecting lots of USB-C devices to a single port and usually they end up losing features or splitting bandwidth instead of sharing the full bandwidth.
well… the new one has gained some ports back, also usb c is absolutely OP (if you have the money for the Accessories lel)
My brand new ThinkPad P14s Gen 5 has HDMI, two USB-A 5Gbps ports, a headset jack, a half-height Ethernet port, as well as two thunderbolt 4 ports and an optional smartcard reader.
I agree that Apple kinda inadvertently ruined the port selection on many laptops for a while but it's gotten better over the years; even Apple brought back HDMI and SD-Card readers.
Where's the magsafe ?
Honestly for some specific use cases where the computer being very light is needed, this is great, but the fact every mac has this now is a little crazy.
Yeah, but at least they permit you to use the right mouse button.
Toslink, or what's that?
WTF is this boomer facebook post shit?
this is another reason why I hate apple. other tech companies would rather follow apple than forge their own design path.
I also hate the tech reviewers who reinforce the belief of apple design superiority that pushes this false belief that encourages those bad design changes.
I never use the ports on my laptop. It never bothered me that they removed them all. Granted I know that’s just my use case I can t speak for everyone.
All you need is a couple of USB-C ports and maybe a HDMI port on most modern laptops. More is good but not a requirement.
Why not complain about them not having a floppy drive anymore while you’re at it? That’s as obsolete as the non USB-C ports.
Most things are wireless these days. I only actively use two ports: one for monitor + charging, and another for the second monitor. Mouse, keyboard and headphones are via Bluetooth.
For me the top one works fine for my day to day use. And it takes up less space in my backpack.
Wireless means you have to deal with batteries. I'd rather plug stuff in and never worry about it.
I like being free of wires on my desk. Having to replace batteries of my mouse and keyboard once every 6 months is a price I’m willing to pay.
The sb part of the acronym means Serial Buss which is what all external peripherals used to connect to the system. The u part means Universal as in one size fits all. Every iteration of the spec has led up to this point. We had A,B,Micro, and now C. Everything could also be wireless today if there were enough spectrum available
This aged like milk, the newest MacBooks have magsafe
That's what I mean when I say that Apple is the worst even ever happened to technology.
Dude if you need that many ports just buy a P50 workstation
I'm okay with USB-C and a headphone jack on my laptop. The other shit is for the birds.
It looks like you're just a dumb follower.
Nobody took anything FROM you. You're just a blind consumer, fool.
Careful not to cut yourself on that edge