The CEO decided that clients were smart intelligent people and treated people as adults. Aka, no discounts, no 99 pricing, it just costs what it costs, as low as we can make it, plus our margin.
JC Penny was already not too well, this helped sink them
It was less about the .99 pricing and more about "Sale" pricing and 'coupons'. Retailers will put a pair of pants on "Sale" for 50% off 51 weeks out of the year and people think they're getting a great deal whereas when it's not half off, they just don't buy.
"Why would I pay $25 for these pair of pants at full price when I could pay $24.99 for those [identical] pants that are half off?! Clearly, that's the better deal!"
Hell, could probably even make it $29.99 for the identical pants and people will still go with that because they think they're paying five more bucks and getting a $60 pair of pants
Marketing hasn't done anything positive for humanity. It is all just to manipulate people into buying shit they don't need. It is the main driver for the overconsumption.
I was watching a PBS documentary about the first humans in the Americas. All the scientists are super cool until you get to the American anthropologist who starts using phrenology to explain why Native American tribes shouldn't be given repatriation rights, only for a Danish geneticist to say "yeah, this is absolutely a Native American and i am willing to testify to that in any court of law"
Pseudoscience is still all the rage if it can be used to push a political agenda.
It really depends on the study you choose to believe into. (No, everyone does it, isn't a pro argument. People always had strange beliefs which later changed. I think it's called major consensus narrative or maybe consensus reality
The science is about how you initially react to the number. Your brain will see $19, and immediately you'll think it's $19. Only upon further inspection and processing through your cognition, you recognise that its $19.99, which is basically $20.
It's that initial reaction they want, to grab your attention. Anyone who is going through life without leveraging their higher thinking will fall for this shit. Anyone who thinks, at all, won't.
Unfortunately, there's a nontrivial number of people who fall into that first category. People who were never taught to think. They just do.
This reminds me of my early shopping days using EBay, where it wasn’t uncommon for sellers to under-price their products so they show up near the top of the price (cheapest-most expensive) sort pile, and then charge an outrageous amount in shipping.
I’ve found that almost always (at the time), that the seller offering free or low cost shipping was usually cheaper.
Part of it is that there's less hidden costs. I like it when it's just "the total is $30" instead of "there's $8 shipping and a $2 service fee and then $4 in taxes and..."
I've also seen some online stores lure in a customer with a really cheap initial price and then on the last page just slam them with insane shipping and handling fees hoping that the customer either doesn't notice or feels too invested at this point to cancel their purchase.
But yes, part of it is also people are stupid when they see the word "free" as if the store wouldn't move the cost somewhere else.
My husband is awful in that regard. He sees the first digit only and then rounds it down. "It's just 30€" - it's 39,99€. "It's like 200€" - it's 289,90€, "5000€" - 5999€. I love him to pieces but I don't trust any of his numbers.
From my experience working in retail I've seen people say out loud something like "oh, it's only 4 dollars!" When the sticker says $4.99. This shit apparently works on a lot of people for some reason.
Honestly, however much I want to pretend to be better than that, I think it does work on me. Obviously not on a conscious level, I know how numbers work, but some part of my monkey brain sees the 1 instead of the 2 and therefore concludes that it must be way cheaper. It's a feeling that no amount of facts is going to disable. And in the end many purchasing decisions aren't based on a full analysis but on feelings.
I've actually started carrying cash again for the first time in 20 years because I'm sick of every fucking POS machine in the world asking for tips. Yes, I can choose not to tip, but there's an emotional cost associated with that decision. There's a cost associated with just seeing the option instead of being able to simply pay for my item and go about my day.
Worked in pricing for a big retailer, it 100% works and retailers don't even like doing it, but it's basically a necessity to get baseline sales. It's WAY easier to have simple even number prices that calculate easily and get percent off sales and clearance prices that make sense. Really the only items you see it on are items competing with other retailers, so kraft mayo that every store has vs. A store brand soda you don't care about volume on. The Mayo you better have $5.99 instead of $6.00 or it looks like you're ripping them off. And even if they sell it got $4.99 it still keeps people thinking it's a complex price difference rather than an even number they can compare more easily.
No, ham radio deluxe, Topaz Labs, phrase Express, on Black Friday they're half their normal price, if you come back in February it is twice the price that it is on Black Friday. Software companies are a special case. While it takes a lot of money and or effort to make their product, minting that product is particularly cheap. Same concept for steam sales. The real advantage is selling the product very cheaply a couple of days a year gets it out in the public more and they end up with more word of mouth sales.
It does work believe it or not. It is something that plays to your subconscious. You will favor the slightly cheaper option even if you aren't aware of it.
even subconsciously $15.55 will not be that better than $15.56
but in a change from $20 to $19.99 the whole first number is smaller, and that gives our ape brains the feeling that it's not as expensive
to reveal the vibes your brain operates on, think about bigger numbers. Imagine yourself to be in kind of a rush, you want to buy something, but family is waiting, or you need to walk your dog, or maybe you're doing shopping before work, regular life stuff,
first scenario
an identical item is sold for $2920 in the first store you visit, and for $2970 in the second store you visit. The stores are an inconvenient travel time away from each other. Do you go back to the first store?
second scenario
now, an identical item is sold for $2975 in the first store you visit, and for $3025 in the second store you visit. The stores are still an inconvenient travel time away from each other. Do you go back to the first store?
though the difference is still $50, the jump from $2975 to $3025 feels more significant than $2920 to $2970. And obviously many of us will go back to get the cheaper option in both cases, but there's a lot of people on this planet who have money to spare but not the time, and a lot of other circumstances too, marketing people know it and will do their damnest to sway you to buy their product
I learned all about this in "thinking fast and slow" by Daniel Kahneman. He talks about system 1 and system 2, where system 1 is your kind of knee-jerk reaction to a thing (thinking fast), and system 2 is the contemplative and careful consideration of a thing (thinking slow).
I would argue that some people overly leverage system 1 (thinking fast) because it's generally easier, and takes less time and mental effort to do. Those that either can't, or are unwilling to engage system 2 in their day to day activities, will 100% fall for these kinds of misleading prices, since system 1 is cutting so many corners so that it can be fast and efficient (mostly on how much energy is used), that it skips a lot of the cognitive steps and goes right to the (often incorrect) conclusion. That $19.99 is $19 (or $10 in some cases).
In the book, they discuss that system 1 often gives the wrong information that is later rejected by system 2 when further consideration is given to a particular input/stimulus.
If someone isn't engaging system 2 as a check to ensure system 1 isn't lying to them, then shit like $19.99 seems cheaper than $20. It doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, but they're not targeting thoughtful people with these practices. For thoughtful people, there's functionally no difference between $19.99 and $20.
Yes, the difference is one cent, but given that one cent is so worthless in today's society, to the point that Canada stopped making one cent coins (and other countries have done so as well), there's functionally no difference between the prices.
One cent is only worth anything if it is combined with many other cents. The sum of those pennies becomes valuable when you conglomerate enough of them.
I generally round up to nearest bigger number or close to that. $19.99 is $20. $23.99 would probably be $25. $180 would just be $200.
No real rhyme or reason, just the bigger the number the more I fudge the “real” price upwards thanks to sales tax and a “can I really afford this?” factor.
I'm not sure it works on me. Not because I'm some super human resistant to advertising (I'm not) but because I'm so bad at math that when they start asking me about anything involving small change I tune out and overestimate by 50% rounded into nice whole numbers.
"This is 19.99"
"Okay so it's basically 30$."
It gives me nice surprises sometimes when I get my receipt.
You can take 1% of anything, then multiply as well.
Like 7% of 15.50
1% is .155 (10% is moving decimal to left once, 1% is twice)
.155 × 7 = 1.083
That's a hard one to do in your head, but .155 × 7 is easier to do on paper than 15.50 × .07.
Say something is 49.99 and 7% off. 1% is .5. .5 ×7 = 3.5. You could probably do that in your head. Otherwise, good luck trying to do 7% of 50 in your head.
Edit: Hmm. So you could also do 3.5% of 100 instead of 7% of 50. That would have been the easiest way to do that one.
Bonus: I thought I'd mention 11s. They are my favorite thing in math because they are so easy and you seem like a math wizard to anyone.
Say you have 42 × 11. That's 462.
You just split apart the 4 and 2, add 4 and 2, then stick it in the middle.
The amount of times I've watched Youtubers say something like "35 dollars" while showing an image that shows the price as $35.96 happens too often for me to side with OP lol, sorry.
In NZ the sticker price is what you pay, if the price on the sticker doesn't include tax, it is false advertising and you pay what is on the sticker.
It is entirely up to the retailer to ensure that the price is correct. The only exception to this, is if the price is obviously wrong e.g. $5.00 rather than $500.
People suck at math and this is how they confuse people into not caring what the actual price becomes when they have to add multiple items together.
What’s 19.99 + 21.75 + 4.99 + 3.99 + 1.99? Can the common person do that math in their head while grocery shopping? What about adding the tax to that total? Not a chance.
Most people probably don’t even know what the sales tax is in their own state.
The major reason given is that taxes vary so much in the US by location that it would be onerous for businesses with locations in different areas to print different price tags and advertise prices broadly.
It's even an issue online because, until you enter your address, the online retailer has no clue what your tax rate will be, and they have to assess tax based on the purchaser's location. Postal code isn't always enough, as they can be shared by different cities with different tax rates.
Some areas also vary tax by date (tax free holidays), though I don't think consumers would care if their total ended up being cheaper than they thought.
A national standard VAT would be the only way businesses might start including tax in price, but there's no way to do that without a constitutional amendment. States have the power to tax, and they're not going to stop now even if they receive VAT revenues.
And then calculates tax right at the register. They have everything they need to do it, it’d hurt their bottom line and be consumer friendly so they don’t.
In some countries like India they have GST (Goods & service tax) which is applicable all over India. It was implemented in 2017 and has unified the indirect tax system across the country. This means that the same tax is levied on goods and services irrespective of the state or territory in India. Most items have 18% GST and the price tag always shows tax included, which is convenient for buyers.
Most people round down. Their brain locks on to the 1 of 19.99, and approximates it to 10.00. We need to actively counter this to see it as 20.00. It's a skill most people don't apply all the time, and a number can't even do.
Once you can do it reliably, it's mind-boggling that others can't, but it's still a learnt skill, that needs to be applied.
It's a subconscious thing. It's how our brain is wired. It's a bit like advertising. Most people don't like ads. However, when confronted my 2 similar products, we will go with the familiar one. The source of that familiarity is irrelevant, ads make it familiar, just the same as using it, or a recommendation.
It's possible to override both of these effects, but that requires a level of conscious effort. I can almost guarantee you've been caught by both at different times. You just didn't notice (since noticing would allow you to correct).
Basically, $19.99 is in the category "under $20". $20.00 is in "over $20". Without conscious correction, you act on this.
Some slight ramdom paper reading, back in my uni days. Though I've ran across it via other sources over the years since. Unfortunately I don't have any links to hand though.
It might better be described as people put numbers into categories. Most people have a 10-20 category. 19.99 fits. 20.00 gets bumped up to the next box. It's a sub/semi conscious thing. If we use our higher thought process, we can deal with the numbers. That takes effort however, by default, we chunk. The price just abuses a common rollover point most people share.
I just wished it was mandated to list prices to include all the taxes along with it. Whether it says $19.99 or $20 still isn't the actual price.
Recently had the worst of this. Was craving chocolate milk, find a nice size bottle of it for $3. Get to register. $6.63 total price because the glass bottle had over a $3 deposit.
If I had to guess its probably because the stste was kinda in a weird place when digital products were first becoming a thing so it was never implemented, and now nobody cares enough to try.
Yeah, and? That doesn't stop the individual stores from already calculating the taxes you're going to pay at that location and putting that price on the labels on their own shelves.
Then leave the advertisement alone. They still print the prices on tags at each store location.
Let them send out flyers saying item A is $20 *plus local taxes but when you get to the store the pricetag on the shelf should say $23.50 or whatever the markup ends up being at that location.
It never works on me. I was taught at a very early age that pricing down by one cent of one dollar is a psychological trick and that I should round up to the nearest whole number.
same way placebo still works (to a degree) even when you know it's placebo
your subconcious is not logical, and no amount of conscious logic will fully defeat its influence
to think yourself immune is foolish and dangerous, that's when you allow it to work even better as you "logically" explain away every manipulation you were influenced by, and convince yourself you made a decision fully by yourself. The danger gets even hotter when it comes to political propaganda that uses the exact same tricks as marketing
Yes, for the general population. Otherwise, companies will stop the psychological pricing. Same with corporate snooping to see our shopping and grocery habits and then send us with targeted ads.
it does NOT work on everyone, but that's irrelevant.
if it works on even 1% of people, but has zero effect on everyone else, companies would still use it everywhere anyways.
a 1% difference over even just a couple thousand customers adds up over time.
so, no, it doesn't work on everyone, and it doesn't have to.
it just has to work on some people, and not deter any more people than it works on.
if anyone wonders when it does and does not work: like most of these psych-tricks the effect mostly disappears when you point it out to people or otherwise make them actively think about what they're buying.
same for the change-the-layout-of-the-store-all-the-time thing: doesn't work on all people, doesn't have to.
The other argument I've heard is so that people will see how much the government is taking from them, and be angry about it. This would be particularly useful for politicians who campaign on smaller government.
This is one of those things that makes me feel the slightest bit more agitated and cynical towards people and society. We all know it's manipulative, and that should be enough reason not to do it. So why does everyone who runs a business do it? Like yeah it does work, but is it really worth subtly eroding your own customer's trust in you? There's an invisible cost of goodwill here.
I remember that for a time, JC Penney focused on honest pricing and abandoned common predatory prices. They came close to bankruptcy and went back to their old ways. The psychology of feeling like we got a good deal is so ingrained into most people that it becomes difficult to run a business without those things
"It's popular so it must be good/true" is not a compelling argument. I certainly wouldn't take it on faith just because it has remained largely unquestioned by marketers.
The closest research I'm familiar with showed the opposite, but it was specifically related to the real estate market so I wouldn't assume it applies broadly to, say, groceries or consumer goods. I couldn't find anything supporting this idea from a quick search of papers. Again, if there's supporting research on this (particularly recent research), I would really like to see it.
Our laws require that pretty much everything is taxed, some more than others, but taxed nonetheless. Despite this, our laws also allow for the tax to be excluded from the price listed for an item, so tax has always been an unpleasant surprise during checkout for me.
I'm sure many other Canadians can echo my sentiment.
The fact is, I'm always expecting to pay between 10 and 15% more on pretty much everything when I get to the checkout, so I tend to do math in my head to figure it out. Let's just say that when I see $4.99, it's easier for my brain to figure out 10 (or 13%, or 15%) of $5 than it is to figure out the tax on $4.99, so I err higher rather than lower on everything.
I see $4.99, I think $5 +tax and I figure that will set me back somewhere between $5.50 and $6 at checkout. Doing the math, the current HST tax in Ontario where I am, IIRC is 13%. 13% of $4.99 is $0.6487 (the company will round up to the nearest penny, so 65 cents), which is $5.64. going from $5 at 15% (which is what I'll do in my head for simplicity), I'd estimate it's $5.75 at checkout, and get pleasantly surprised when I save 11 cents because the tax was less than I anticipated.
All of this shit is kind of moot IMO, since I think people aren't looking at prices nearly as much as they used to. When I was young, debit cards didn't exist, credit cards were a tedious process of filing out paperwork, and so most of the time people carried cash. It was common for people to add up their costs as they went to ensure that the cash they brought would cover the items they're buying at the grocery. For smaller transactions like convenience stores, you'd just do it in your head, and for big ticket purchases, like appliances, furniture, vehicles, etc, you'd use cheques or credit cards because the hassle of doing that was outweighed by the liability of carrying thousands of dollars to the store to buy a thing.
With debit/interac/whatever, and the chip/sign, or chip/pin process (and/or "tap" to pay), you have convenient, and instant access to your entire life savings on a whim with near zero effort or inconvenience. It's never been so easy to spend money (especially money you don't have - eg overdraft or credit cards).
When I started to do my own grocery shopping, sometime after debit/interac/chip&pin was made to be commonplace, I rarely looked at prices. I assumed the price was reasonable for what I was buying, and concerning myself with the nickels and dimes of it all was more effort than I cared to put into buying something I wanted or needed.
With the prices of everything going haywire in the last 5 years or so, I find myself looking at prices a lot more and going for alternatives to my "usual" brands of products simply due to price alone, especially when grocery shopping. If I can kick my grocery bill from $300 to $250 by simply buying smarter, that's a cheap date I get to go on with my spouse that I otherwise couldn't afford. That's more valuable to me than buying name brand cereal or cans of Campbell's soup over the store brand.
IMO, I'm the problem.... or rather, my previous mentality was the problem that in part led to the crazy increase in pricing. I didn't concern myself if something was a cheaper option and just bought whatever I wanted or whatever I was used to buying. I don't have brand loyalty beyond "this was good/worked in the past, so I'll buy it again". That amount of "loyalty" doesn't extend to significant increases in the price of things. The prices went up and while my grocery bill went up, I didn't pay much attention to it. That's just what it cost me. The cost always changed because I wouldn't always buy the same things, nor the same quantity of things. So I expected it to be fairly random. That created a false loyalty to products that just kept going up in price. I kept paying that because I wasn't paying attention. So they kept going up because the company didn't see a drop in sales because of the increase in price.
Now, I'm much more conscious of what I'm buying. I'll compare not only the cost, but the quantity of a thing. If I can get 700g of something at $5 but an alternative has 1000g for $6. I'll get the $6 item, since I'm paying more, for a lot more, therefore I'm paying less per gram. I've become the kind of shopper that most companies can't keep. If prices go up, I'll jump to another brand that's cheaper. If the quantity goes down (shrinkflation) I'll go to a brand that gives me better value for my dollar.
I'm one step away from cutting coupons here. I'll do it too.
At the end of the day, it's all about economics for me. If it's going to take me more time to compare, or find coupons, or whatever than I'm saving by doing that, then I won't do it. Right now, cutting coupons falls below that value line. I put my time ahead of the proposed savings by cutting coupons. My time saved by not doing it, is simply more valuable to me right now. If/when that changes, I'll start doing it.
I doubt it works on me. I have bought smaller items due to doing the per unit price in my head (don't trust what they put there and two often then apples and organges the units) or completely not bought something or bought some alternative (potatoes instead of bread or rice instead of potatoes).
It was originally to force the cashier to open the till.
Say an item was $20. If the customer paid with a $20 note, then the cashier could, intheory, pocket it, without it showing up on the rocords. If it was $19.99 they needed to open the till to get a cent out. This meant it was recorded, and so the till wouldn't balance.
I appreciate that you recognise the pitfalls here.
In don't think you're wrong at all, and I'm sure as shit not putting in the effort to figure out if you're right or wrong, but if someone comes along with better/newer info, you have already recognized that the info you have might be outdated.
But it IS how we see prices. If there weren't science behind it, they wouldn't be doing it.
JC Penny kinda showed that no. It isn’t pseudocience
What's the story about JC Penny?
The CEO decided that clients were smart intelligent people and treated people as adults. Aka, no discounts, no 99 pricing, it just costs what it costs, as low as we can make it, plus our margin.
JC Penny was already not too well, this helped sink them
It was less about the .99 pricing and more about "Sale" pricing and 'coupons'. Retailers will put a pair of pants on "Sale" for 50% off 51 weeks out of the year and people think they're getting a great deal whereas when it's not half off, they just don't buy.
Poor guy. Tried to do some good in the world and paid the price for it. Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the average person.
"Why would I pay $25 for these pair of pants at full price when I could pay $24.99 for those [identical] pants that are half off?! Clearly, that's the better deal!"
Hell, could probably even make it $29.99 for the identical pants and people will still go with that because they think they're paying five more bucks and getting a $60 pair of pants
Some marketing strategies are pseudoscience, but this one isn't.
Does anyone in the thread have actual info to back this up?
This doesn't meet the bar you want, but my marketing professor called the .99 idea the single greatest thing to come out of marketing in a century.
Sounds about right.
Marketing hasn't done anything positive for humanity. It is all just to manipulate people into buying shit they don't need. It is the main driver for the overconsumption.
You should be able to find various tests and studies of this phenomenon on Google
So, it's a "no" than?
It's a yes but find it yourself
I was watching a PBS documentary about the first humans in the Americas. All the scientists are super cool until you get to the American anthropologist who starts using phrenology to explain why Native American tribes shouldn't be given repatriation rights, only for a Danish geneticist to say "yeah, this is absolutely a Native American and i am willing to testify to that in any court of law"
Pseudoscience is still all the rage if it can be used to push a political agenda.
I don't. Never did. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
You do though
At some level you will favor the 19.99. You might justify it with some other rational but there will be the bias.
No, I dont though.
It really depends on the study you choose to believe into. (No, everyone does it, isn't a pro argument. People always had strange beliefs which later changed. I think it's called major consensus narrative or maybe consensus reality
I like this hill, I'll stay here. Thank you.)
No, I really don't.
The science is about how you initially react to the number. Your brain will see $19, and immediately you'll think it's $19. Only upon further inspection and processing through your cognition, you recognise that its $19.99, which is basically $20.
It's that initial reaction they want, to grab your attention. Anyone who is going through life without leveraging their higher thinking will fall for this shit. Anyone who thinks, at all, won't.
Unfortunately, there's a nontrivial number of people who fall into that first category. People who were never taught to think. They just do.
dowsing for suckadrippas
$20 and $10 shipping: 😡
$30 and free shipping: 😄
This reminds me of my early shopping days using EBay, where it wasn’t uncommon for sellers to under-price their products so they show up near the top of the price (cheapest-most expensive) sort pile, and then charge an outrageous amount in shipping.
I’ve found that almost always (at the time), that the seller offering free or low cost shipping was usually cheaper.
Part of it is that there's less hidden costs. I like it when it's just "the total is $30" instead of "there's $8 shipping and a $2 service fee and then $4 in taxes and..."
I've also seen some online stores lure in a customer with a really cheap initial price and then on the last page just slam them with insane shipping and handling fees hoping that the customer either doesn't notice or feels too invested at this point to cancel their purchase.
But yes, part of it is also people are stupid when they see the word "free" as if the store wouldn't move the cost somewhere else.
I don't understand people who won't pay £5 for shipping, but will instead spend another £15 on something they don't need so they get free shipping.
All you've done is lost money.
It depends. If it's something I know I'll use, especially a consumable, I'll do it.
That at least allows you to retrieve the full amount if you return the goods. Shipping costs you don't get back.
I'll admit, this works on me sometimes.
I hate that it does, but it do.
My husband is awful in that regard. He sees the first digit only and then rounds it down. "It's just 30€" - it's 39,99€. "It's like 200€" - it's 289,90€, "5000€" - 5999€. I love him to pieces but I don't trust any of his numbers.
How many? About 200?
Best I can do is 199
A whole 100 pieces? What a deal!
My dad is the same with gas price. If gas is 156.9 cents a litre? Nah to him it's 156 cents a litre
0_0 I take it you do the lion's share of the finances haha
At least I hope
From my experience working in retail I've seen people say out loud something like "oh, it's only 4 dollars!" When the sticker says $4.99. This shit apparently works on a lot of people for some reason.
This is my neighbor all the time.
Like dude, round up!
I think I've heard a couple people do this. One directly in response to me saying it was $5 lol.
I do that with gas, but everybody knows the .9 cents are implied.
Funny, I might be the only person I know who automatically rounds up gas prices...
Honestly, however much I want to pretend to be better than that, I think it does work on me. Obviously not on a conscious level, I know how numbers work, but some part of my monkey brain sees the 1 instead of the 2 and therefore concludes that it must be way cheaper. It's a feeling that no amount of facts is going to disable. And in the end many purchasing decisions aren't based on a full analysis but on feelings.
Most people are idiots most of the time.
Some people are idiots some of the time.
No one is never an idiot.
Can confirm. I'm idiot most of the time
This is locally grown artisanal bullshit, it's actually $300, please tip.
I've actually started carrying cash again for the first time in 20 years because I'm sick of every fucking POS machine in the world asking for tips. Yes, I can choose not to tip, but there's an emotional cost associated with that decision. There's a cost associated with just seeing the option instead of being able to simply pay for my item and go about my day.
Its literally how we see prices which is why companies do this
Worked in pricing for a big retailer, it 100% works and retailers don't even like doing it, but it's basically a necessity to get baseline sales. It's WAY easier to have simple even number prices that calculate easily and get percent off sales and clearance prices that make sense. Really the only items you see it on are items competing with other retailers, so kraft mayo that every store has vs. A store brand soda you don't care about volume on. The Mayo you better have $5.99 instead of $6.00 or it looks like you're ripping them off. And even if they sell it got $4.99 it still keeps people thinking it's a complex price difference rather than an even number they can compare more easily.
These dumbasses thinks this works on us smart people. Anyway, gotta go fight some people on black friday for shit i don't even need nor afford
Which just so happens to have been the same price all month.
Regular price: $399.99
BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL:
$799.99$399.99It was also on sale yesterday for the same price.
The only thing that I ever go for on black Friday is software. A lot of software is actually legitimately cheaper on black Friday sales.
Isn't it just as cheap when you just download it on black friday?
No, ham radio deluxe, Topaz Labs, phrase Express, on Black Friday they're half their normal price, if you come back in February it is twice the price that it is on Black Friday. Software companies are a special case. While it takes a lot of money and or effort to make their product, minting that product is particularly cheap. Same concept for steam sales. The real advantage is selling the product very cheaply a couple of days a year gets it out in the public more and they end up with more word of mouth sales.
It does work believe it or not. It is something that plays to your subconscious. You will favor the slightly cheaper option even if you aren't aware of it.
Horrible idea: plugin that rounds all numbers up
Recursively
that would explain the google fine in russia
Perfectly great idea!
not just cheaper though
even subconsciously $15.55 will not be that better than $15.56
but in a change from $20 to $19.99 the whole first number is smaller, and that gives our ape brains the feeling that it's not as expensive
to reveal the vibes your brain operates on, think about bigger numbers. Imagine yourself to be in kind of a rush, you want to buy something, but family is waiting, or you need to walk your dog, or maybe you're doing shopping before work, regular life stuff,
first scenario
an identical item is sold for $2920 in the first store you visit, and for $2970 in the second store you visit. The stores are an inconvenient travel time away from each other. Do you go back to the first store?
second scenario
now, an identical item is sold for $2975 in the first store you visit, and for $3025 in the second store you visit. The stores are still an inconvenient travel time away from each other. Do you go back to the first store?
though the difference is still $50, the jump from $2975 to $3025 feels more significant than $2920 to $2970. And obviously many of us will go back to get the cheaper option in both cases, but there's a lot of people on this planet who have money to spare but not the time, and a lot of other circumstances too, marketing people know it and will do their damnest to sway you to buy their product
I learned all about this in "thinking fast and slow" by Daniel Kahneman. He talks about system 1 and system 2, where system 1 is your kind of knee-jerk reaction to a thing (thinking fast), and system 2 is the contemplative and careful consideration of a thing (thinking slow).
I would argue that some people overly leverage system 1 (thinking fast) because it's generally easier, and takes less time and mental effort to do. Those that either can't, or are unwilling to engage system 2 in their day to day activities, will 100% fall for these kinds of misleading prices, since system 1 is cutting so many corners so that it can be fast and efficient (mostly on how much energy is used), that it skips a lot of the cognitive steps and goes right to the (often incorrect) conclusion. That $19.99 is $19 (or $10 in some cases).
In the book, they discuss that system 1 often gives the wrong information that is later rejected by system 2 when further consideration is given to a particular input/stimulus.
If someone isn't engaging system 2 as a check to ensure system 1 isn't lying to them, then shit like $19.99 seems cheaper than $20. It doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, but they're not targeting thoughtful people with these practices. For thoughtful people, there's functionally no difference between $19.99 and $20.
Yes, the difference is one cent, but given that one cent is so worthless in today's society, to the point that Canada stopped making one cent coins (and other countries have done so as well), there's functionally no difference between the prices.
One cent is only worth anything if it is combined with many other cents. The sum of those pennies becomes valuable when you conglomerate enough of them.
That's a great way to put it
I generally round up to nearest bigger number or close to that. $19.99 is $20. $23.99 would probably be $25. $180 would just be $200.
No real rhyme or reason, just the bigger the number the more I fudge the “real” price upwards thanks to sales tax and a “can I really afford this?” factor.
I'm not sure it works on me. Not because I'm some super human resistant to advertising (I'm not) but because I'm so bad at math that when they start asking me about anything involving small change I tune out and overestimate by 50% rounded into nice whole numbers.
"This is 19.99"
"Okay so it's basically 30$."
It gives me nice surprises sometimes when I get my receipt.
You have to be, like, better at math to do that though?
Decimals are the devil's work.
You can remove the decimal then add it back at the end
15.50
Is
1500
Half would be 775
Or 7.75
yep, and figure out what 20% of your bill is by taking 10% and double it. saves my ass every time i gotta tip lol
You can take 1% of anything, then multiply as well.
Like 7% of 15.50
1% is .155 (10% is moving decimal to left once, 1% is twice)
.155 × 7 = 1.083
That's a hard one to do in your head, but .155 × 7 is easier to do on paper than 15.50 × .07.
Say something is 49.99 and 7% off. 1% is .5. .5 ×7 = 3.5. You could probably do that in your head. Otherwise, good luck trying to do 7% of 50 in your head.
Edit: Hmm. So you could also do 3.5% of 100 instead of 7% of 50. That would have been the easiest way to do that one.
Bonus: I thought I'd mention 11s. They are my favorite thing in math because they are so easy and you seem like a math wizard to anyone.
Say you have 42 × 11. That's 462.
You just split apart the 4 and 2, add 4 and 2, then stick it in the middle.
Something like 67 × 11. Where the digits add >10.
6...7, 6+7=13, 6+1...3...7. So 737.
Using whole numbers can be easier when estimating
The amount of times I've watched Youtubers say something like "35 dollars" while showing an image that shows the price as $35.96 happens too often for me to side with OP lol, sorry.
To be fair, in that specific case, they could have been rounding to the nearest $5. Unlike virtually all other instances of that behavior.
Honestly I just want tax included on the price tag.
That is honestly insane.
In NZ the sticker price is what you pay, if the price on the sticker doesn't include tax, it is false advertising and you pay what is on the sticker.
It is entirely up to the retailer to ensure that the price is correct. The only exception to this, is if the price is obviously wrong e.g. $5.00 rather than $500.
It really is considering how easy it would be to implement.
That's an American problem too
People suck at math and this is how they confuse people into not caring what the actual price becomes when they have to add multiple items together.
What’s 19.99 + 21.75 + 4.99 + 3.99 + 1.99? Can the common person do that math in their head while grocery shopping? What about adding the tax to that total? Not a chance.
Most people probably don’t even know what the sales tax is in their own state.
your price tags show the price before tax? that's fucked up
The major reason given is that taxes vary so much in the US by location that it would be onerous for businesses with locations in different areas to print different price tags and advertise prices broadly.
It's even an issue online because, until you enter your address, the online retailer has no clue what your tax rate will be, and they have to assess tax based on the purchaser's location. Postal code isn't always enough, as they can be shared by different cities with different tax rates.
Some areas also vary tax by date (tax free holidays), though I don't think consumers would care if their total ended up being cheaper than they thought.
A national standard VAT would be the only way businesses might start including tax in price, but there's no way to do that without a constitutional amendment. States have the power to tax, and they're not going to stop now even if they receive VAT revenues.
It's bullshit because every location prints their own price tags lol.
And then calculates tax right at the register. They have everything they need to do it, it’d hurt their bottom line and be consumer friendly so they don’t.
In some countries like India they have GST (Goods & service tax) which is applicable all over India. It was implemented in 2017 and has unified the indirect tax system across the country. This means that the same tax is levied on goods and services irrespective of the state or territory in India. Most items have 18% GST and the price tag always shows tax included, which is convenient for buyers.
Weirdly, my brain went through those numbers as "20, 22, 5, 3, 2."
So they did get you at 3.99 -> 3!
Maybe because your brain wanted 5+3+2=10 instead of 5+4+2=11 ?
20+22+5+3=50 vs 20+22+5+4=51, since I was going left to right, but it works.
How is that "weird"? That's just good numeracy.
I got through a bunch of them fine, then the $3.99 tripped me up.
Ha! That’s what they want.
Now add the sales tax. And don’t forget about bag fees and to tip Tippy.
We don't have any of those things here.
Most people dont just round up after seeing the price?
Most people round down. Their brain locks on to the 1 of 19.99, and approximates it to 10.00. We need to actively counter this to see it as 20.00. It's a skill most people don't apply all the time, and a number can't even do.
Once you can do it reliably, it's mind-boggling that others can't, but it's still a learnt skill, that needs to be applied.
Most of the people i saw round down notice that and then round up
It's a subconscious thing. It's how our brain is wired. It's a bit like advertising. Most people don't like ads. However, when confronted my 2 similar products, we will go with the familiar one. The source of that familiarity is irrelevant, ads make it familiar, just the same as using it, or a recommendation.
It's possible to override both of these effects, but that requires a level of conscious effort. I can almost guarantee you've been caught by both at different times. You just didn't notice (since noticing would allow you to correct).
Basically, $19.99 is in the category "under $20". $20.00 is in "over $20". Without conscious correction, you act on this.
Source?
Some slight ramdom paper reading, back in my uni days. Though I've ran across it via other sources over the years since. Unfortunately I don't have any links to hand though.
It might better be described as people put numbers into categories. Most people have a 10-20 category. 19.99 fits. 20.00 gets bumped up to the next box. It's a sub/semi conscious thing. If we use our higher thought process, we can deal with the numbers. That takes effort however, by default, we chunk. The price just abuses a common rollover point most people share.
So, no source do the actual research backing your claims?
Where is your thesis with references?
You do realise that it is a claim which needs to be proven, not the other way around, right?
No, most people just give up after seeing the price.
All the people i saw either rounded up or rounded down by mistake and then rounding up
No. Most people round to the nearest whole number and often just pick a direction to round.
Since no one does math in their head anymore the total is always more than they expected. No calculators on shopping carts anymore either.
I just wished it was mandated to list prices to include all the taxes along with it. Whether it says $19.99 or $20 still isn't the actual price.
Recently had the worst of this. Was craving chocolate milk, find a nice size bottle of it for $3. Get to register. $6.63 total price because the glass bottle had over a $3 deposit.
It is, in the EU.
Hey everything on steam is the listed price if ya live in California. We dont have a digital sales tax, which is weird.
Right? Of all the states California is the one with no tax? Even Texas has that shit.
If I had to guess its probably because the stste was kinda in a weird place when digital products were first becoming a thing so it was never implemented, and now nobody cares enough to try.
Then let's stop talking about it 👀
Unfortunately taxes aren't uniform across a metro area or even within a city.
Yeah, and? That doesn't stop the individual stores from already calculating the taxes you're going to pay at that location and putting that price on the labels on their own shelves.
Because when they advertise, those advertisements cover a larger area.
Then leave the advertisement alone. They still print the prices on tags at each store location.
Let them send out flyers saying item A is $20 *plus local taxes but when you get to the store the pricetag on the shelf should say $23.50 or whatever the markup ends up being at that location.
The owners of the legislature don't want that, so it won't get done.
The government doesn't work for you, it works at the behest of those that have long since paid for the "elected" representatives.
Those people own companies that profit from all the misleading prices and adverts. They don't have any interest in changing that.
I'd rather advisements list the highest price for the area they cover than have false advertising with the prices at the store.
It never works on me. I was taught at a very early age that pricing down by one cent of one dollar is a psychological trick and that I should round up to the nearest whole number.
Funny thing is, it still works.
On people who are actively trying to compensate for it, or did you just mean the overall population?
Yes, even them. It is all subconsciously.
Everyone believes they can't be tricked by those simple things.
same way placebo still works (to a degree) even when you know it's placebo
your subconcious is not logical, and no amount of conscious logic will fully defeat its influence
to think yourself immune is foolish and dangerous, that's when you allow it to work even better as you "logically" explain away every manipulation you were influenced by, and convince yourself you made a decision fully by yourself. The danger gets even hotter when it comes to political propaganda that uses the exact same tricks as marketing
Yes, for the general population. Otherwise, companies will stop the psychological pricing. Same with corporate snooping to see our shopping and grocery habits and then send us with targeted ads.
that's the important caveat:
it does NOT work on everyone, but that's irrelevant.
if it works on even 1% of people, but has zero effect on everyone else, companies would still use it everywhere anyways.
a 1% difference over even just a couple thousand customers adds up over time.
so, no, it doesn't work on everyone, and it doesn't have to.
it just has to work on some people, and not deter any more people than it works on.
if anyone wonders when it does and does not work: like most of these psych-tricks the effect mostly disappears when you point it out to people or otherwise make them actively think about what they're buying.
same for the change-the-layout-of-the-store-all-the-time thing: doesn't work on all people, doesn't have to.
On idiots. So on probably around 40% of population.
It actually works on smart people too.
Not really.
I always round up the price when I see $X.99 but my grandmother always rounds it down and it pisses me off
They're trying to fool you! Don't be a sheep!!!
I always round way up because sales tax is so high here. 17.99 = $20. I'm usually within the $1 range when I check out.
Still boggles my mind that tax is not included in the price in the US.
It encourages more consumption
Hmm, this is the first time I get this argument, and I think you are on point.
The other argument I've heard is so that people will see how much the government is taking from them, and be angry about it. This would be particularly useful for politicians who campaign on smaller government.
This is one of those things that makes me feel the slightest bit more agitated and cynical towards people and society. We all know it's manipulative, and that should be enough reason not to do it. So why does everyone who runs a business do it? Like yeah it does work, but is it really worth subtly eroding your own customer's trust in you? There's an invisible cost of goodwill here.
Are you choosing to go to the store that does $20 instead of $19.99?
Does that store exist?
It's more that the customer refuses to buy the $20 item but at 19.99 it seems just a little more attainable.
That is a fair point. But then again, I don't even remember the last time I was in a store that had honest prices.
I remember that for a time, JC Penney focused on honest pricing and abandoned common predatory prices. They came close to bankruptcy and went back to their old ways. The psychology of feeling like we got a good deal is so ingrained into most people that it becomes difficult to run a business without those things
But $999 is much lesser than a grand
But you get a penny back, isn't that great?
Jokes on you. We have sales tax.
I still don't get why you guys have that and not the business.
Sellers are responsible for it. They just don't include it in the advertised pricing, they could if they wanted to.
It's basically for the same reason stores charge $19.99 instead of $20.
It's so annoying that stuff always comes out to like .04¢ over the dollar, so now I have to carry 96 cents around all day.
I'm so glad coinstar bribed like 4 senators 30 years ago so we still have these gross metal circles everywhere.
They may list it as $19.99 but I'm always going to call it twenty bucks and eleven cents.
Everyone here is hilarious thinking they're immune to it.
Because it is how we see prices. It takes a bit of effort to see it as 20.
Also "
200100" is very different from "100".If there is any research from the last 50 years suggesting this actually works, I'd love to see it.
The fact that almost every price for everything everywhere is like this is pretty compelling evidence that it works.
"It's popular so it must be good/true" is not a compelling argument. I certainly wouldn't take it on faith just because it has remained largely unquestioned by marketers.
The closest research I'm familiar with showed the opposite, but it was specifically related to the real estate market so I wouldn't assume it applies broadly to, say, groceries or consumer goods. I couldn't find anything supporting this idea from a quick search of papers. Again, if there's supporting research on this (particularly recent research), I would really like to see it.
Yes, you can find plenty on Google I'm sure
"Keep the change"
The invention of .99 cents pricing
Living in Canada, this shit never worked for me.
Our laws require that pretty much everything is taxed, some more than others, but taxed nonetheless. Despite this, our laws also allow for the tax to be excluded from the price listed for an item, so tax has always been an unpleasant surprise during checkout for me.
I'm sure many other Canadians can echo my sentiment.
The fact is, I'm always expecting to pay between 10 and 15% more on pretty much everything when I get to the checkout, so I tend to do math in my head to figure it out. Let's just say that when I see $4.99, it's easier for my brain to figure out 10 (or 13%, or 15%) of $5 than it is to figure out the tax on $4.99, so I err higher rather than lower on everything.
I see $4.99, I think $5 +tax and I figure that will set me back somewhere between $5.50 and $6 at checkout. Doing the math, the current HST tax in Ontario where I am, IIRC is 13%. 13% of $4.99 is $0.6487 (the company will round up to the nearest penny, so 65 cents), which is $5.64. going from $5 at 15% (which is what I'll do in my head for simplicity), I'd estimate it's $5.75 at checkout, and get pleasantly surprised when I save 11 cents because the tax was less than I anticipated.
All of this shit is kind of moot IMO, since I think people aren't looking at prices nearly as much as they used to. When I was young, debit cards didn't exist, credit cards were a tedious process of filing out paperwork, and so most of the time people carried cash. It was common for people to add up their costs as they went to ensure that the cash they brought would cover the items they're buying at the grocery. For smaller transactions like convenience stores, you'd just do it in your head, and for big ticket purchases, like appliances, furniture, vehicles, etc, you'd use cheques or credit cards because the hassle of doing that was outweighed by the liability of carrying thousands of dollars to the store to buy a thing.
With debit/interac/whatever, and the chip/sign, or chip/pin process (and/or "tap" to pay), you have convenient, and instant access to your entire life savings on a whim with near zero effort or inconvenience. It's never been so easy to spend money (especially money you don't have - eg overdraft or credit cards).
When I started to do my own grocery shopping, sometime after debit/interac/chip&pin was made to be commonplace, I rarely looked at prices. I assumed the price was reasonable for what I was buying, and concerning myself with the nickels and dimes of it all was more effort than I cared to put into buying something I wanted or needed.
With the prices of everything going haywire in the last 5 years or so, I find myself looking at prices a lot more and going for alternatives to my "usual" brands of products simply due to price alone, especially when grocery shopping. If I can kick my grocery bill from $300 to $250 by simply buying smarter, that's a cheap date I get to go on with my spouse that I otherwise couldn't afford. That's more valuable to me than buying name brand cereal or cans of Campbell's soup over the store brand.
IMO, I'm the problem.... or rather, my previous mentality was the problem that in part led to the crazy increase in pricing. I didn't concern myself if something was a cheaper option and just bought whatever I wanted or whatever I was used to buying. I don't have brand loyalty beyond "this was good/worked in the past, so I'll buy it again". That amount of "loyalty" doesn't extend to significant increases in the price of things. The prices went up and while my grocery bill went up, I didn't pay much attention to it. That's just what it cost me. The cost always changed because I wouldn't always buy the same things, nor the same quantity of things. So I expected it to be fairly random. That created a false loyalty to products that just kept going up in price. I kept paying that because I wasn't paying attention. So they kept going up because the company didn't see a drop in sales because of the increase in price.
Now, I'm much more conscious of what I'm buying. I'll compare not only the cost, but the quantity of a thing. If I can get 700g of something at $5 but an alternative has 1000g for $6. I'll get the $6 item, since I'm paying more, for a lot more, therefore I'm paying less per gram. I've become the kind of shopper that most companies can't keep. If prices go up, I'll jump to another brand that's cheaper. If the quantity goes down (shrinkflation) I'll go to a brand that gives me better value for my dollar.
I'm one step away from cutting coupons here. I'll do it too.
At the end of the day, it's all about economics for me. If it's going to take me more time to compare, or find coupons, or whatever than I'm saving by doing that, then I won't do it. Right now, cutting coupons falls below that value line. I put my time ahead of the proposed savings by cutting coupons. My time saved by not doing it, is simply more valuable to me right now. If/when that changes, I'll start doing it.
Fuck corporations.
It is how it is, Americans are the dumbest
Doesn't it have its roots in forcing clerks to give change and recording the sale (rather than pocketing the money)?
It's the three strategies of pricing:
I doubt it works on me. I have bought smaller items due to doing the per unit price in my head (don't trust what they put there and two often then apples and organges the units) or completely not bought something or bought some alternative (potatoes instead of bread or rice instead of potatoes).
But its true though, don't you think they would save on the printer ink if it wasn't the case?
It doesn't take much to convince the people in charge they're right. Usually the amount is minimum wage.
I think it's just so that pennies circulate
Wasn't that originally to sell newspaper?
It was originally to force the cashier to open the till.
Say an item was $20. If the customer paid with a $20 note, then the cashier could, intheory, pocket it, without it showing up on the rocords. If it was $19.99 they needed to open the till to get a cent out. This meant it was recorded, and so the till wouldn't balance.
correct answer (as far as my opinion is concerned without doing any actual research)
To be fair, my research is decades old at this point.
I appreciate that you recognise the pitfalls here.
In don't think you're wrong at all, and I'm sure as shit not putting in the effort to figure out if you're right or wrong, but if someone comes along with better/newer info, you have already recognized that the info you have might be outdated.
Kudos.
I thought it was a trick by sign writers who charge by the letter.