The gap you leave should be speed-dependent and about 2 seconds to allow for reaction time. Yes, this caps the highway's capacity to 0.5 cars per second per lane but roads are inherently inefficient.
Aye, and 2 seconds is the bare minimum. A company I have worked for wanted 4 seconds between you and the car in front. That always felt a little much, but it definitely helped prevent wrecks.
In my state, it's one car length(15-20 feet) for every 10mph. Good luck getting anyone to actually follow it though! Getting on a major highway here is like the Autobahn.
This is the only good answer. No need to distract yourself by figuring out your speed and guesstimating your gap like others are saying. Just count the seconds whenever you need to
3 seconds is the guideline I've been taught here in Sweden, but yeah. Riding too close is crazy dangerous and I don't understand why people keep doing it.
If you're only two lengths away from the car in front of you while driving at highway speeds, you are tailgating. Back off. It's far more dangerous than speeding.
Help me out with this, because it's driving me crazy. Whenever I leave anywhere close to 2 seconds between me and the car on front of me, someone cuts in, and I'm now too close to them, so I slow down, leaving a 2 second gap, and another cuts in. Rinse, repeat. I end up being the slow ass that everyone keeps zooming around unless I tailgate.
Just... Don't care? Let people in and adjust the distance with them. Driving is an involved process, get a car with adaptive cruise control if you want one that will do exactly that for you.
I guess it's more than just "caring" - I feel that we'd all be a lot safer if we were all going the same speed instead of inviting people to dodge in and out
It would be safer if we were all riding the train/bus. Getting in a car in america is accepting the risk that you share the road with everyone. no matter the qualifications or mental state we still all gotta get to work/grocery store/wherever, and the only way is by ~4000 pound metal speed box.
Worrying about safety on the highway is about making sure you are in situations you can handle and react to, staying attentive to the styles and mental states of other drivers and being a step ahead of the road conditions
Unfortunately I can't see how public transport would be feasible without accepting that the vast majority of places I might want to go are simply inaccessible, and the places I could go would take 3-5 times longer. Case in point, there are no public transportation options to get to my son's high school. It would be a 35 minute bicycle ride. I can drive there in 12 minutes. Getting to my local Wegmans would take 37 minutes by bus. I can drive there in 9 minutes. I live on the outskirts of a medium size city on the east coast in a low density residential neighborhood.
Let them hop in and keep your 2 seconds. I used to have a 40 minute commute and on a busy morning would have 10-15 people do that. Know how much time that sets me back? 20 to 30 seconds. Following this rule I have a 25 year clean driving record and I guarantee these lane hoppers can't make that claim
it's probably even less, maybe even negligible because of traffic lights at either end: you can't calculate a single journey because you're never going to hit the same light exactly the same every time. I have four lights between my house and the freeway, and 7 between the freeway and one of the sites for my job. Each one adds between 0-60 seconds randomly for an average of 6 minutes sitting and waiting per day. I would have to have a commute of like 120 miles of uninterrupted freeway driving for that to matter.
At 65mph, you cover two car lengths (~30 ft) in about 1/3 of a second.
Typically human reaction time for braking is about 1.5 seconds.
If something went seriously wrong in front of you (like a sideways car, or a hidden obstacle in front of the car in front of you) you would have covered 10 car lengths before your foot touches the brake pedal.
nothing gets me more pissed off than when I'm driving the speed limit on an open road with an open passing zone, no one coming towards me or ahead of me, and some dipshit decides to ride my ass
Then you need to lift off the accellerator, don't brake check or anything, just slowly slow down.
If the car behind you won't give you enough safety margin to maintain a high speed, then your only option to maintain safety is to reduce your speed so that the safety margin they give you is enough to stop in time for an accident.
Here in Sweden we have plenty of roundabouts, I will use those to also get rid of annoying drivers who just can't manage their distance, if I have someone like that behind me when I get to a roundabout, I just drive a full lap of the roundabout and let them pass.
I will allways let these guys past when I can, they are in a rush to their own accident, and I am not, let them pass and and make them stop being my problem, if I can't find a place to let them pass I will reduce my speed to compensate for their lack of safety margins
Or you're in the right hand lane and people are still tailgating you even though you're going 70mph.
Some people are unnecessarily aggressive on the road. Probably because they have unresolved emotional issues and take it out on other drivers. At least that's what I tell myself.
Probably because they have unresolved emotional issues and take it out on other drivers.
Oh they absolutely do.
Besides guns, motor vehicles are probably the most physically powerful things most of us (in the US) have the freedom to control in our lives. And there are almost no restrictions on allowing someone to drive when they can't or won't regulate their emotional state.
I tend to annoy people by dropping off the gas much sooner for lights than strictly necessary, but by gently slowing I both save gas, wear and depending on the timing of the light I can often even time it to miss the red entirely
I was driving in slowish freeway traffic in Detroit and the guy behind me plowed right into me, didn't even slow down, didn't even look away. He sort of bounced off of me, pulled onto the shoulder, and squeeled off while I had to find some sketchy spot to stop and make sure my bumper wasn't dragging too much.
A person I was visiting there in Detroit told me that insurance wasn't required so many people run off rather than risk getting blamed and the cops wouldn't even bother with a report.
Insurance is required in all of Michigan, with fines, license suspension, and jail all possible for not having it. With Michigan's no-fault insurance we have some of the highest rates in the country in Detroit—especially relative to income—and almost no viable alternative to owning a car.
That said, as a native Detroiter I feel safer in Detroit driving around other Detroiters, the suburbanites and out of state folks are always in the way.
I thought I heard that insurance laws changed maybe since then or around that time and there was a reason for a lot of hit and runs. I don't know, but that was my experience a while ago. The weird part was mostly how the dude had no visible reaction at all except to take off, which probably could've been anywhere.
As an out of towner I did have trouble with the short on ramps. I wasn't sure how to get into a rhythm because there was no place to get up to speed. I didn't like feeling like I had to shove my way in and it was hard to tell how to let others in safely. I suppose you just know those things when you live there long enough.
Those are some of the first below-grade expressways built in the country, so the shorter on ramps are from an era with fewer and slower cars, and there isn't space to lengthen them.
The law only changed to stop the insurance companies from using zip codes to determine rates, and reduced the maximum payout for healthcare related costs from a crash, with the aim of lowering costs, but of course the insurance companies worked around it.
I learned about the infrastructure at the time but that's why being unaccustomed was a hinderance, especially when it's unexpected. The insurance stuff seems likely more in line with what I was told than what I was remembering in short.
Edit: OP is bragging about forcing cars behind them to pass on the right because they are too entitled to get the hell over. It's dangerous and you people applaud them. Pathetic.
The vast majority of roads that allow legal passing are 2 lanes. Safe assumption to make. They didn't clarify otherwise until a later comment. This thread is also days old and a settled conversation you are now interjecting into.... why?
It's Lemmy, and it took maybe 5 minutes of scrolling for this to be on my front page. Your comment irked me and I want to increase engagement on the site, sue me.
On a well developed well maintained "freeway" with multiple lanes, shoulders for break downs, gentle curves, et cetera it's common. 3 car lengths is more common here I think.
That said, on a "highway" (interstate?) without everything listed above I aim for 2 seconds, which is about 60 metres at highway speed.
I think my biggest pet peeve about driving is when you come to a stop and the car behind you tries to shove their nose up your ass. Like bruh you don't need to ever be that close
I feel like it really isn't your fault if you role back 6 inches and hit them. If you were to roll back 4 feet it would be different but in this case you can't control something so small.
My driving instructor taught me that I should still be able to see the other car's back wheels when I stop. I actually don't know how close that looks from the other driver's perspective.
Terrible, terrible advice. That leaves a full car-length of empty pavement with the driver sight-lines of modern SUV and crossover designs. Pickup trucks are worse; I've seen pickup truck drivers stop a full 30 feet back. It wastes huge amounts of space on the street, and causes traffic congestion. On the other side of the coin, van and bus drivers can still get right up on your ass when following this advice.
I hate breathing in pollution so I keep a car's length between me and the next car at traffic lights. Cars themselves are a huge storming waste of space and I hate being in or around cars with all my heart and soul so if I make traffic worse then I will consider it a passive form of protesting against car dependency
Not actually as the "see the tires" rule is fairly good advise. Keep in mind sometimes it is smarter to give a little more space depending on the situation. Think of it as more of a minimum. Also lose most of your speed farther back and then role forward. This allows for recovery time in case of failure or loss of traction.
At a stop? Who cares? Can't being closer together at a stop light at least help with intersections? I guess it depends on the city.
If you're driving a manual and you roll back on a stop, you shouldn't be driving a manual. Unless you live in like San Francisco I guess? In the Appalachian region, cops will stop you for rolling back.
Ever heard of clear distance? If you're at a stop and someone rear ends you and you hit the car in front of you you are at fault and will be held liable.
As for the rollback in my state they'll again look at distance. Because if I don't have enough space to back up because you're too close you're once again at fault for not having clear distance.
On top of all that it helps move traffic along faster. You don't have to wait as long to accelerate if you maintain distance because you don't have to wait for the car in front of you to move far enough to start accelerating.
Getting bumper to bumper has zero benefits outside of the false psychological feeling of forward progress.
if they are following the two second rule they should be less than a foot from your car. If your car is stopped you are always more than two seconds from the car in front of you.
It's not only a safety hazard but it leads to slower traffic. If you maintain the right distance at a stop the whole line of cars can accelerate faster because you don't have to wait as long for the car ahead of you to move. There are zero actual benefits of sniffing my ass at a stop.
Weird guy is right though. Best practice is to leave enough space so that in the event you get rear ended you don't get shoved into the car in front of you.
And I know it's state dependent, but the highways by me, each white line is about one car and each gap is one car, so if you're doing 50, having two to three white dashed lines between you and the car in front of you is probably good.
In all cases you need to drive to the conditions. Observe your circumstances and adapt your behavior accordingly.
3s is a good yard stick, but there's plenty of situations in which it is not the ideal safe distance.
At 110km/h that's about 90 metres. Every idiot around is going to try to move around you to take up that spot. Being overtaken by idiots is unsafe. This is just one example, there's plenty of others.
My car's "smart cruise control" leaves what seems to be around a car length for every 10 mph, which is what I remember hearing in driving school. Feels a bit excessive in practice, but I also never feel like I'm being an asshole so I'm okay with it.
I was rear ended, HARD once. That distance gave me the space to control both my vehicle, and the one that hit me. It turned a potential multi car, multi lane pileup into a 2 vehicle wreck, either 1 more dinged car.
The space isn't for the 99.999% of the time, but that 0.001% OH FUCK time.
I almost had that happen to me a year ago. Traffic had stopped on the interstate and I hear skrrt, skrrt, skrrt, skrrt getting closer and closer to me. I looked up in my mirror and see a Silverado rapidly closing the distance and thought "god damn it". I fortunately left enough room between me and the car in front of me that I was able to give him some more space and turned a full on collision into a tap that didn't do any damage. Pretty sure my foot was actually off the brake when he hit me and that helped absorb some of it as well. I was still pretty pissed though because I had more than enough time to think about all these things and consider moving onto the shoulder but I thought he would do that instead and still hit me with how fast he was going. Being an idiot, he did not and hit me anyway.
I've dodged similar collisions a couple of times, over the years. Unfortunately, this time, she didn't even touch the brakes. I was hit with a 50 mph differential, and no warning whatsoever.
Oh I'm not saying anything against it! I love that it leaves as much space as it does. Sometimes I just have to give it a little umpf to pass a semi because it sees the car waaay ahead and slows down.
I was taught to repeat that phrase, at a normal steady pace, when I saw the back of their car go past something, to use as a marker (a signpost, the end of one of the lines on the road, whatever).
If you finish the phrase after the front of your car has gone past the same marker, then you don't have a big enough braking distance and need to ease off a bit.
My brother in law does this. Gets so close that you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead, going 80+ mph. He's been in multiple wrecks, including one where he totaled his custom BMW and almost died. He blamed the other driver (somewhat reasonably, they were drunk, but he was driving like a psycho), and refuses to change any of his driving habits.
He also used to street race in Florida, with his family in the car. No, they did not consent to it, they're just too scared of him to say anything.
The simplified distance rule we learn in europe is: half your speed (km/h) in meters or as an equation, v/2000. E.g. you drive 120km/h, keep 60m distance.
I've always preferred the 2 second rule. You don't need to do distance math in your head, just find a tree and count the time it takes to get from their car to yours.
Ah, that could be interpreted at least two different ways. I have a suspicion of how this conversation will go, but I'm interested to find out.
It's my opinion that the metric system is superior to the imperial, so we should all be primarily exposed to the superior system. Some may disagree and I won't claim that I'm objectively correct. No worries if you disagree - regardless of my opinion, the imperial system is what I've been exposed to and what I use.
Alternatively, the statement might be interpreted as "you should be familiar with the metric system even if you reside in a country where it's not the primary system." That's probably less true - while it might behoove one to be familiar with the metric system, I don't blame the individual for the limitations placed on them by the government, regardless of what's better.
If you have a third interpretation, it's probably not what I meant, but I would be interested in hearing it.
Judging by how close people follow me on the Interstate, I have a feeling most drivers think this but only a small percentage can do it effectively.
And judging by how close 9 out of 10 pickup truck drivers follow tailgate me on the interstate even when I am doing 10-15 over, I have a feeling most don't care and would prefer to run me over in their lifted Rams and SuperDutys.
I have a two lane road for most of commute every morning. What hate is when you pick up a buttplug. A buttplug is some dipshit who crawls up your ass and refuses to pass. They wont leave enough gap for the person behind them to pass without passing both of us and they wont pass themselves.
What is crazy about this is that person will usually stay there until every car behind them has passed. After that they usually pass almost immediately.
Lord I hate those fucking cunts who see two car lengths of space as an invitation. I'm going 85, you're going 75, don't suddenly hop in front of me because the clown in front of you is going 70.
3 seconds when under 65. 5 seconds when it's raining or I'm moving faster than posted highway speeds. It pisses people off but I'm hauling a ton of steel and plastic around, I'm not going to risk my life and everyone's around me just because some guy is late for work or can't be patient and needs to get where he's going a few seconds before me. People tend to lose the reality of the situation when driving their super fast metal explosion machines.
2 seconds is not enough. Average human reaction time takes more than half that time. I was also taught to keep 3 seconds minimum distance on average 80 km/h zone. Faster driving, more distance should be kept.
What I don't get is the current trend of leaving 1-2 car lengths at traffic lights. At first I thought it was maybe all the new cars with their assisted driving features. But I've seen older cars do it too.
Cars are getting bigger, but people aren't getting taller (as fast). Little granny can barely see her hood over the steering wheel so she needs to leave 2.75 miles of space between her and the car in front.
This one terrifies me every time... When you pass a car going the opposite way, and it basically looks wike the steering wheel have a wig on... It's always an old woman... Can they even see the road? Or are they navigating using the sky?
You should be able to see the tires (generally) of the car ahead of you. That means you can easily / quickly turn out if the car ahead is stalled or something.
It also means you might not rear end the car ahead of you if someone hits you
It’s in case some jackass on their phone rear ends you, if you’re too close you’ll get pushed into the car in front of you. IIRC you can be liable for the damages to the car in front of you while stopped if a multiple car accident happens.
You don't need to leave a crazy amount of space when stopped at a traffic light, but you still should be leaving some. So if someone rear ends you, it minimizes the risk of your car then smashing into the person in front of you, so it reduces the risk of additional people being involved in an accident.
On the other hand if you're in a real city and someone is already behind you, please pull up tight. That way someone else farther back can make a light or turn lane.
That's a thing? Seems pretty silly to me. You need space but not that much.
What annoys me here is that people will enter the intersection before traffic on the other side has a chance to clear thus blocking the road when the light changes.
I also don't think the people who speed though the turn light. The light turns green and I have to sit and wait for traffic to clear
It's a nice thought, but it has so many modifiers it's pretty much worthless. Everything from road conditions, to time of day or night, to the size and weight and type of vehicle you are driving, to how old you are affects stopping distance and the interval you should be leaving.
Remember children - Driving should never be "relaxing." It's real work and demands your total concentration to protect yourself and everyone around you. So put the phone down and even turn off the radio. Put your head on a swivel like a fighter pilot. And have an escape plan for every inch you drive.
I don't know why you are being downvoted since the distance from other cars should absolutely reflect the current conditions. I also agree that to drivers need to proactively look for possible collisions in mirrors and blind spots, though they should be generally calm and patient when driving.
yeah me too. i get a lot of rollerskaters squeezing into the space so i keep backing off til theyre all jammed ass to mouth like a human centipede. gotta keep my distance for when the chain binds. and it will
The recommendation changed from car lengths to seconds decades ago, but wasn't well communicated fwict. I learned car lengths from my dad and then seconds when I got my motorcycle endorsement.
If everyone were leaving 2 seconds of space, it also reduces stop and go traffic that is caused, or at least exacerbated, by the traffic wave phenomenon. But that's even less well socialized.
The gap you leave should be speed-dependent and about 2 seconds to allow for reaction time. Yes, this caps the highway's capacity to 0.5 cars per second per lane but roads are inherently inefficient.
Aye, and 2 seconds is the bare minimum. A company I have worked for wanted 4 seconds between you and the car in front. That always felt a little much, but it definitely helped prevent wrecks.
In my state, it's one car length(15-20 feet) for every 10mph. Good luck getting anyone to actually follow it though! Getting on a major highway here is like the Autobahn.
2 seconds assumes an instantaneous reaction and perfect road conditions. In the EU they'll teach you about 3s and at least +1 in poor conditions.
This is the only good answer. No need to distract yourself by figuring out your speed and guesstimating your gap like others are saying. Just count the seconds whenever you need to
3 seconds is the guideline I've been taught here in Sweden, but yeah. Riding too close is crazy dangerous and I don't understand why people keep doing it.
2 isn't much, over here they recommend 3 at highway speeds
If you're only two lengths away from the car in front of you while driving at highway speeds, you are tailgating. Back off. It's far more dangerous than speeding.
Help me out with this, because it's driving me crazy. Whenever I leave anywhere close to 2 seconds between me and the car on front of me, someone cuts in, and I'm now too close to them, so I slow down, leaving a 2 second gap, and another cuts in. Rinse, repeat. I end up being the slow ass that everyone keeps zooming around unless I tailgate.
It just be that way. Idiots will see your safe following distance as their opportunity to switch lanes. Just keep being the safe one.
Just... Don't care? Let people in and adjust the distance with them. Driving is an involved process, get a car with adaptive cruise control if you want one that will do exactly that for you.
I guess it's more than just "caring" - I feel that we'd all be a lot safer if we were all going the same speed instead of inviting people to dodge in and out
It would be safer if we were all riding the train/bus. Getting in a car in america is accepting the risk that you share the road with everyone. no matter the qualifications or mental state we still all gotta get to work/grocery store/wherever, and the only way is by ~4000 pound metal speed box.
Worrying about safety on the highway is about making sure you are in situations you can handle and react to, staying attentive to the styles and mental states of other drivers and being a step ahead of the road conditions
Unfortunately I can't see how public transport would be feasible without accepting that the vast majority of places I might want to go are simply inaccessible, and the places I could go would take 3-5 times longer. Case in point, there are no public transportation options to get to my son's high school. It would be a 35 minute bicycle ride. I can drive there in 12 minutes. Getting to my local Wegmans would take 37 minutes by bus. I can drive there in 9 minutes. I live on the outskirts of a medium size city on the east coast in a low density residential neighborhood.
But people need to change lane sometimes and if you're the one giving them the space to do so then more power to you, don't complain
Just be safe. You're still close to your desires speed
Let them hop in and keep your 2 seconds. I used to have a 40 minute commute and on a busy morning would have 10-15 people do that. Know how much time that sets me back? 20 to 30 seconds. Following this rule I have a 25 year clean driving record and I guarantee these lane hoppers can't make that claim
it's probably even less, maybe even negligible because of traffic lights at either end: you can't calculate a single journey because you're never going to hit the same light exactly the same every time. I have four lights between my house and the freeway, and 7 between the freeway and one of the sites for my job. Each one adds between 0-60 seconds randomly for an average of 6 minutes sitting and waiting per day. I would have to have a commute of like 120 miles of uninterrupted freeway driving for that to matter.
Beyond “don’t care” - you get to be the traffic hacker who improves traffic for everyone. yayyy
::: spoiler Credit for above I think: Traffic Waves
trafficwaves.org :::
Anyone who wants to test how this can work?
Check this old-school site:
traffic-simulation.de
At 65mph, you cover two car lengths (~30 ft) in about 1/3 of a second.
Typically human reaction time for braking is about 1.5 seconds.
If something went seriously wrong in front of you (like a sideways car, or a hidden obstacle in front of the car in front of you) you would have covered 10 car lengths before your foot touches the brake pedal.
nothing gets me more pissed off than when I'm driving the speed limit on an open road with an open passing zone, no one coming towards me or ahead of me, and some dipshit decides to ride my ass
Then you need to lift off the accellerator, don't brake check or anything, just slowly slow down.
If the car behind you won't give you enough safety margin to maintain a high speed, then your only option to maintain safety is to reduce your speed so that the safety margin they give you is enough to stop in time for an accident.
Here in Sweden we have plenty of roundabouts, I will use those to also get rid of annoying drivers who just can't manage their distance, if I have someone like that behind me when I get to a roundabout, I just drive a full lap of the roundabout and let them pass.
I will allways let these guys past when I can, they are in a rush to their own accident, and I am not, let them pass and and make them stop being my problem, if I can't find a place to let them pass I will reduce my speed to compensate for their lack of safety margins
I already subconsciously do this because I know it pisses them off, but I like your justification much better
It isn't even a justification, it is simple defensive driving, as I was taught in driving school, and reenforced by my dad many times.
Sometimes I increment my cruise control down a mph at a time to see how much I can get them to slow down
I just clean my windows.
The speed and distance will make it so all the cleaner fluid will spray on their windshield. Making it all nasty.
Feels like I am driving a spy car.
My car can only increment in 5km/h steps, snd it is a bit too large to do this, but I would do this if I could
Or you're in the right hand lane and people are still tailgating you even though you're going 70mph.
Some people are unnecessarily aggressive on the road. Probably because they have unresolved emotional issues and take it out on other drivers. At least that's what I tell myself.
Oh they absolutely do.
Besides guns, motor vehicles are probably the most physically powerful things most of us (in the US) have the freedom to control in our lives. And there are almost no restrictions on allowing someone to drive when they can't or won't regulate their emotional state.
Its always a huge pickup truck too. I look in the mirror and just see the front grill
Try putting on your right blinker, sometimes they get the message you're encouraging them to pass.
If that doesn't work, there's always the Chechen wave
*Check local state laws for applicability
If what you’re doing makes idiots angry, feel good about yourself and keep doing it.
Yeah, when you're going 90km/h, it's fucking idiotic. It's way too fucking close, you're going to kill someone. Random brake check incoming!
Of course true, just a dream 🥲
I assume the post is describing a 20 mph school zone because then yes, perfect thanks
Why? Do you want them to tailgate you instead?
If you think two car lengths is tailgating, you haven't seen nothing yet!
More space means less braking, reducing bunching up. Check this article on traffic waves out
I tend to annoy people by dropping off the gas much sooner for lights than strictly necessary, but by gently slowing I both save gas, wear and depending on the timing of the light I can often even time it to miss the red entirely
I just moved to Michigan
I have never seen a group of drivers so committed to Tail Gateing .... Like it's the state sport
Visit Tennessee and get back to me. Moving from Tennessee to Michigan I noticed a distinct uptick in the quality of driving.
cries in Houston TX
I swear Texas license plates are like warning signs for bad drivers
Wait till u get to DC, MD, and VA. that'll make u cry even more.
I was driving in slowish freeway traffic in Detroit and the guy behind me plowed right into me, didn't even slow down, didn't even look away. He sort of bounced off of me, pulled onto the shoulder, and squeeled off while I had to find some sketchy spot to stop and make sure my bumper wasn't dragging too much.
A person I was visiting there in Detroit told me that insurance wasn't required so many people run off rather than risk getting blamed and the cops wouldn't even bother with a report.
Insurance is required in all of Michigan, with fines, license suspension, and jail all possible for not having it. With Michigan's no-fault insurance we have some of the highest rates in the country in Detroit—especially relative to income—and almost no viable alternative to owning a car.
That said, as a native Detroiter I feel safer in Detroit driving around other Detroiters, the suburbanites and out of state folks are always in the way.
I thought I heard that insurance laws changed maybe since then or around that time and there was a reason for a lot of hit and runs. I don't know, but that was my experience a while ago. The weird part was mostly how the dude had no visible reaction at all except to take off, which probably could've been anywhere.
As an out of towner I did have trouble with the short on ramps. I wasn't sure how to get into a rhythm because there was no place to get up to speed. I didn't like feeling like I had to shove my way in and it was hard to tell how to let others in safely. I suppose you just know those things when you live there long enough.
Those are some of the first below-grade expressways built in the country, so the shorter on ramps are from an era with fewer and slower cars, and there isn't space to lengthen them. The law only changed to stop the insurance companies from using zip codes to determine rates, and reduced the maximum payout for healthcare related costs from a crash, with the aim of lowering costs, but of course the insurance companies worked around it.
I learned about the infrastructure at the time but that's why being unaccustomed was a hinderance, especially when it's unexpected. The insurance stuff seems likely more in line with what I was told than what I was remembering in short.
Brake check!
Spoken like a true left lane hogger
Edit: OP is bragging about forcing cars behind them to pass on the right because they are too entitled to get the hell over. It's dangerous and you people applaud them. Pathetic.
Spoken like a true entitled bad driver
If they're matching the pace of the car ahead, explain the offense.
Left lane is for passing. The vehicle ahead of them could very well be just as in the wrong if not worse.
If you're pacing the car in front of you, you're already wrong.
Never. Pace. Strangers.
You pass them or let them pass.
They never said they're in the left lane, and in fact specifically specified against it. Sounds like you're both defensive and an aggressive driver.
The vast majority of roads that allow legal passing are 2 lanes. Safe assumption to make. They didn't clarify otherwise until a later comment. This thread is also days old and a settled conversation you are now interjecting into.... why?
It's Lemmy, and it took maybe 5 minutes of scrolling for this to be on my front page. Your comment irked me and I want to increase engagement on the site, sue me.
Intelligent people leave a space of about two cars ahead of them on the freeway.
Stupid people think that space must be for them.
Intelligent people leave a whole fucking lot more than just two car lengths.
Back when i drove. I was taught 3 car lengths, or 3 seconds. Whichever is greater.
I think they're saying 2 car lengths when in heavy traffic going 20 mph. I hope...
Two car lengths isn't even remotely enough space if you're traveling at high speeds.
Yeah, I follow the 3 second rule and try to keep 3 seconds of travel distance between me and the car in front of me
This is it. Absolute minimum two seconds in perfect conditions, four if it's raining/dark/whatever.
It depends.
On a well developed well maintained "freeway" with multiple lanes, shoulders for break downs, gentle curves, et cetera it's common. 3 car lengths is more common here I think.
That said, on a "highway" (interstate?) without everything listed above I aim for 2 seconds, which is about 60 metres at highway speed.
I think my biggest pet peeve about driving is when you come to a stop and the car behind you tries to shove their nose up your ass. Like bruh you don't need to ever be that close
Especially annoying if you're driving a manual and are stopped on an incline.
I drive a 6 speed. This is where my rage for this comes from.
But even in automatics rollback isn't uncommon on an incline.
I feel like it really isn't your fault if you role back 6 inches and hit them. If you were to roll back 4 feet it would be different but in this case you can't control something so small.
In court it won't be your fault if they're that close, but it's still the hassle of dealing with people who don't understand basic driving etiquette.
I can usually set off on an incline with no rollback but I'll be damn if it doesn't slightly stress me out every time someone pulls that shit.
My driving instructor taught me that I should still be able to see the other car's back wheels when I stop. I actually don't know how close that looks from the other driver's perspective.
Terrible, terrible advice. That leaves a full car-length of empty pavement with the driver sight-lines of modern SUV and crossover designs. Pickup trucks are worse; I've seen pickup truck drivers stop a full 30 feet back. It wastes huge amounts of space on the street, and causes traffic congestion. On the other side of the coin, van and bus drivers can still get right up on your ass when following this advice.
I hate breathing in pollution so I keep a car's length between me and the next car at traffic lights. Cars themselves are a huge storming waste of space and I hate being in or around cars with all my heart and soul so if I make traffic worse then I will consider it a passive form of protesting against car dependency
Respect!
What it looks like:
Not actually as the "see the tires" rule is fairly good advise. Keep in mind sometimes it is smarter to give a little more space depending on the situation. Think of it as more of a minimum. Also lose most of your speed farther back and then role forward. This allows for recovery time in case of failure or loss of traction.
Maybe they just really love the smell of exhaust and are trying to get high off of your emissions
Then get out and suck my tailpipe but stay off my ass lmao
At a stop? Who cares? Can't being closer together at a stop light at least help with intersections? I guess it depends on the city.
If you're driving a manual and you roll back on a stop, you shouldn't be driving a manual. Unless you live in like San Francisco I guess? In the Appalachian region, cops will stop you for rolling back.
Ever heard of clear distance? If you're at a stop and someone rear ends you and you hit the car in front of you you are at fault and will be held liable.
As for the rollback in my state they'll again look at distance. Because if I don't have enough space to back up because you're too close you're once again at fault for not having clear distance.
On top of all that it helps move traffic along faster. You don't have to wait as long to accelerate if you maintain distance because you don't have to wait for the car in front of you to move far enough to start accelerating.
Getting bumper to bumper has zero benefits outside of the false psychological feeling of forward progress.
that's interesting. I'll keep that in mind.
if they are following the two second rule they should be less than a foot from your car. If your car is stopped you are always more than two seconds from the car in front of you.
I can't believe this comedy gold is not upvoted more. Maybe it needs /s?
Never heard of that rule. I was always taught to leave enough space that you can see the bottom of their back tires.
The two second rule is for following distance. Applying it to stopped cars makes no sense at all, but it is funny . You have it right.
Ah I misunderstood. I understand it now.
I leave enough space to be able to drive around them if I need to
Id get that close if I want to give the phone enjoyer behind me plenty of time to stop
So you can hit the car in front of you too?
It's not only a safety hazard but it leads to slower traffic. If you maintain the right distance at a stop the whole line of cars can accelerate faster because you don't have to wait as long for the car ahead of you to move. There are zero actual benefits of sniffing my ass at a stop.
phone enjoyer is ungovernable
Weird guy is right though. Best practice is to leave enough space so that in the event you get rear ended you don't get shoved into the car in front of you.
fair point
That doesn't mean you should be acting like an asshat yourself.
It takes two to tango
calm down
When i was 13 bill Clinton told me 1 car length per every 10mph i was traveling at. Ive been following that advice ever since
And I know it's state dependent, but the highways by me, each white line is about one car and each gap is one car, so if you're doing 50, having two to three white dashed lines between you and the car in front of you is probably good.
Fun fact: In most states, this length is 40ft, but there are some exceptions, like CA, where it's 24ft or 48ft depending on the road.
What better place to keep em guessing than while behind the wheel on the highway!
3 seconds is the minimum safe distance, regardless of speed
What is this in imperial? How many bullets per square-child?
3 seconds from you to get to where the other car was previously.
Depends, African or European?
Yes
This is just plain untrue.
In all cases you need to drive to the conditions. Observe your circumstances and adapt your behavior accordingly.
3s is a good yard stick, but there's plenty of situations in which it is not the ideal safe distance.
At 110km/h that's about 90 metres. Every idiot around is going to try to move around you to take up that spot. Being overtaken by idiots is unsafe. This is just one example, there's plenty of others.
If you see people weaving like crazy you just slow down even more.
When I leave two car lengths, four cars will go into it, and at least one of their drivers will throw a half empty beer can at me.
Infinite free beer exploit?
Only half infinite unfortunately
My car's "smart cruise control" leaves what seems to be around a car length for every 10 mph, which is what I remember hearing in driving school. Feels a bit excessive in practice, but I also never feel like I'm being an asshole so I'm okay with it.
I was rear ended, HARD once. That distance gave me the space to control both my vehicle, and the one that hit me. It turned a potential multi car, multi lane pileup into a 2 vehicle wreck, either 1 more dinged car.
The space isn't for the 99.999% of the time, but that 0.001% OH FUCK time.
I live for those moments
Do you wreck your car often?
I almost had that happen to me a year ago. Traffic had stopped on the interstate and I hear skrrt, skrrt, skrrt, skrrt getting closer and closer to me. I looked up in my mirror and see a Silverado rapidly closing the distance and thought "god damn it". I fortunately left enough room between me and the car in front of me that I was able to give him some more space and turned a full on collision into a tap that didn't do any damage. Pretty sure my foot was actually off the brake when he hit me and that helped absorb some of it as well. I was still pretty pissed though because I had more than enough time to think about all these things and consider moving onto the shoulder but I thought he would do that instead and still hit me with how fast he was going. Being an idiot, he did not and hit me anyway.
I've dodged similar collisions a couple of times, over the years. Unfortunately, this time, she didn't even touch the brakes. I was hit with a 50 mph differential, and no warning whatsoever.
Well you want the automated system to be overly safe usually. It is better than the other way around.
Having more space also gives the driver the to react.
Oh I'm not saying anything against it! I love that it leaves as much space as it does. Sometimes I just have to give it a little umpf to pass a semi because it sees the car waaay ahead and slows down.
Two car lengths? You absolute madman! That's positively grotesque!
For the purposes of this comment, I'm assuming that cars are about fifty feet long.
At 60mph with a 2 second following distance, you'd need about 176 feet, so you'd want 3 car lengths with 50 foot cars.
Limo driver moment
I leave 2-3 seconds following distance minimum on interstate highways.
"Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule."
I was taught to repeat that phrase, at a normal steady pace, when I saw the back of their car go past something, to use as a marker (a signpost, the end of one of the lines on the road, whatever).
If you finish the phrase after the front of your car has gone past the same marker, then you don't have a big enough braking distance and need to ease off a bit.
I think you mean a 1/10 of a second. (Local drivers, apparently)
My brother in law does this. Gets so close that you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead, going 80+ mph. He's been in multiple wrecks, including one where he totaled his custom BMW and almost died. He blamed the other driver (somewhat reasonably, they were drunk, but he was driving like a psycho), and refuses to change any of his driving habits.
He also used to street race in Florida, with his family in the car. No, they did not consent to it, they're just too scared of him to say anything.
The simplified distance rule we learn in europe is: half your speed (km/h) in meters or as an equation, v/2000. E.g. you drive 120km/h, keep 60m distance.
I've always preferred the 2 second rule. You don't need to do distance math in your head, just find a tree and count the time it takes to get from their car to yours.
In my country it's 3 seconds out of town and 2 seconds in town, by law. And I think that's beautiful.
In the US, usually it's one car length per 10mph.
Probably not much more intuitive than yours, but less math required on the fly.
Tbh the math required is pretty similar, I just divide the speed by 2 and am done.
That's very reasonable if you're accustomed to operating in metric ... Which we all should be, but here we are.
We all should be?
Ah, that could be interpreted at least two different ways. I have a suspicion of how this conversation will go, but I'm interested to find out.
It's my opinion that the metric system is superior to the imperial, so we should all be primarily exposed to the superior system. Some may disagree and I won't claim that I'm objectively correct. No worries if you disagree - regardless of my opinion, the imperial system is what I've been exposed to and what I use.
Alternatively, the statement might be interpreted as "you should be familiar with the metric system even if you reside in a country where it's not the primary system." That's probably less true - while it might behoove one to be familiar with the metric system, I don't blame the individual for the limitations placed on them by the government, regardless of what's better.
If you have a third interpretation, it's probably not what I meant, but I would be interested in hearing it.
In France the way we learned is (for the highway at least)
I just leave enough room to come to a stop in the gap between us.
That's the underlying reason to keep distance ofc. The rule of thumb gives you an easy to calculate solution to how far that approximately is.
I don't need math for this. Once you have a feel for your car you can just visually gauge it in an instant.
Judging by how close people follow me on the Interstate, I have a feeling most drivers think this but only a small percentage can do it effectively.
And judging by how close 9 out of 10 pickup truck drivers
followtailgate me on the interstate even when I am doing 10-15 over, I have a feeling most don't care and would prefer to run me over in their lifted Rams and SuperDutys.Some of us don't have LIDAR-eyes, cut us some slack
Do European cars come with distance measuring equipment??
No but humans typically do
Humans aren't actually that good at visually measuring distances.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/judging-distances-and-depth-perception-change-with-arm-length/
Only in cyberpunk literature.
I may not be good at giving it a number, but I can usually see how far apart two things are.
"In the year 2147, technology has given humans abilities beyond the natural senses, it has given them... eyes."
Eyes can't measure distance. You can only make rough estimations.
I like my distance estimates the way i like my toilet paper
rough
Many places have roads markers every 100m. Or you can count the seconds from any fixed point and figure it out.
I have a two lane road for most of commute every morning. What hate is when you pick up a buttplug. A buttplug is some dipshit who crawls up your ass and refuses to pass. They wont leave enough gap for the person behind them to pass without passing both of us and they wont pass themselves.
What is crazy about this is that person will usually stay there until every car behind them has passed. After that they usually pass almost immediately.
This is the way. Though I've had to come to a full stop and pull off the road a couple times...
Lord I hate those fucking cunts who see two car lengths of space as an invitation. I'm going 85, you're going 75, don't suddenly hop in front of me because the clown in front of you is going 70.
I've always followed the rule of 1 car length for every 10 miles per hour you're going.
I always (sometimes) do three seconds between me and the car in front of me. That automatically adjusts for increased speed.
3 seconds when under 65. 5 seconds when it's raining or I'm moving faster than posted highway speeds. It pisses people off but I'm hauling a ton of steel and plastic around, I'm not going to risk my life and everyone's around me just because some guy is late for work or can't be patient and needs to get where he's going a few seconds before me. People tend to lose the reality of the situation when driving their super fast metal explosion machines.
When I did driver's training, they recommended about 2 seconds of distance. I find it to be a reasonable distance most of the time.
2 seconds is not enough. Average human reaction time takes more than half that time. I was also taught to keep 3 seconds minimum distance on average 80 km/h zone. Faster driving, more distance should be kept.
How am I supposed to leave 10 car lengths while speeding through a school zone? Explain!
If it's a school zone you leave 10 school bus lengths.
You can't do this in LA, but LA fucking sucks so fuck 'em haha.
What I don't get is the current trend of leaving 1-2 car lengths at traffic lights. At first I thought it was maybe all the new cars with their assisted driving features. But I've seen older cars do it too.
Cars are getting bigger, but people aren't getting taller (as fast). Little granny can barely see her hood over the steering wheel so she needs to leave 2.75 miles of space between her and the car in front.
Little granny needs to jack up her seat to its maximal height. And maybe get a booster seat if necessary. Either that or a periscope.
This one terrifies me every time... When you pass a car going the opposite way, and it basically looks wike the steering wheel have a wig on... It's always an old woman... Can they even see the road? Or are they navigating using the sky?
You should be able to see the tires (generally) of the car ahead of you. That means you can easily / quickly turn out if the car ahead is stalled or something.
It also means you might not rear end the car ahead of you if someone hits you
It’s in case some jackass on their phone rear ends you, if you’re too close you’ll get pushed into the car in front of you. IIRC you can be liable for the damages to the car in front of you while stopped if a multiple car accident happens.
I leave one, maybe one and a half when stopped. I like having ample room to GTFO if I need to.
You don't need to leave a crazy amount of space when stopped at a traffic light, but you still should be leaving some. So if someone rear ends you, it minimizes the risk of your car then smashing into the person in front of you, so it reduces the risk of additional people being involved in an accident.
On the other hand if you're in a real city and someone is already behind you, please pull up tight. That way someone else farther back can make a light or turn lane.
Or even better don't enter the intersection when there isn't enough room on the other side.
Should be about one car length for every 10mph. On a highway unless you're going slow that would be too close.
Yeah, but what about 0 mph?
As long as you didn't crash it's OK lol
That's a thing? Seems pretty silly to me. You need space but not that much.
What annoys me here is that people will enter the intersection before traffic on the other side has a chance to clear thus blocking the road when the light changes.
I also don't think the people who speed though the turn light. The light turns green and I have to sit and wait for traffic to clear
That's a big enough issue that it is illegal in some cities with signs posted, "Don't block the box."
To be fair sometimes the timing of the light is problematic. However, if you see that there are cars ahead you should not enter the intersection
It's a nice thought, but it has so many modifiers it's pretty much worthless. Everything from road conditions, to time of day or night, to the size and weight and type of vehicle you are driving, to how old you are affects stopping distance and the interval you should be leaving.
Remember children - Driving should never be "relaxing." It's real work and demands your total concentration to protect yourself and everyone around you. So put the phone down and even turn off the radio. Put your head on a swivel like a fighter pilot. And have an escape plan for every inch you drive.
I don't know why you are being downvoted since the distance from other cars should absolutely reflect the current conditions. I also agree that to drivers need to proactively look for possible collisions in mirrors and blind spots, though they should be generally calm and patient when driving.
Driving isn't supposed to be as stressful as this comment put it. If it is then you shouldnt be allowed to drive.
I didn't say it should be stressful, I said it should be "work." There is a big difference.
I think they are getting down voted due to distracted driving
Should be at least 5 car lengths on the highway
yeah me too. i get a lot of rollerskaters squeezing into the space so i keep backing off til theyre all jammed ass to mouth like a human centipede. gotta keep my distance for when the chain binds. and it will
The recommendation changed from car lengths to seconds decades ago, but wasn't well communicated fwict. I learned car lengths from my dad and then seconds when I got my motorcycle endorsement.
If everyone were leaving 2 seconds of space, it also reduces stop and go traffic that is caused, or at least exacerbated, by the traffic wave phenomenon. But that's even less well socialized.
I salute you good sir! That's plenty of space to squeeze past if necessary 😁 Just maintain a constant speed and you're a hero
And stay out of the passing lane.
Now there'd be a saint 🙏🏽
Robert Loggia and David Lynch have something to say about this:
https://youtu.be/nDilD3wAxt8?feature=shared