It's really common advice to not start with the cheapest gear. Yes a lot of us learned to play on dime store guitars but would have suffered less with a quality instrument. The same is true for just about everything.
Exactly. I started learning harmonica on those $20 pack of 8 and struggled for weeks to get anything to sound close to what I wanted. When I spent $60 on a decent instrument, I could suddenly do what I'd been practicing. There's a sweet spot for getting good enough equipment to actually learn without blowing the budget on something you may not continue doing
You can go to Home Depot and get a plane for $15-20, and it will - mostly - cut wood. Spend $50-60 and get a decent name brand tool that gives a lot less grief. Spend $500 and get a Lie Nielsen that's just on another level.
Here's the thing, though: you have to be pretty competent to appreciate the difference between the $50 and $500 tools; and if you know what you're doing, you can easily tune the $15 so it works almost as well as the $500. Buy cheap to get started; upgrade if it turns out you stick with the hobby. I'll never know if I could have learned easier/faster starting with a $50 plane, but my guess is that I'd still have been gouging the shit out of everything.
Another thing that works really well is buying old when it comes to some tools.
I have a handful of 80 year old Stanley planes that are all the same quality as the expensive Lie Nielsen options, but I got them for about 50 bucks each.
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But learning to tune a plane takes skill and time. People get into woodworking because they want to build things out of wood. The love of adjusting tools comes later.
The setup thing is no joke. I made a sub $200 mandolin play well out of its league with just some sandpaper to lower the nut height. I still got the nicer one but for the time inbetween it was great. Now the friend I bought it from for $50 has it on loan since she can actually physically play it now with the lower string height.
I’ve learned that the ROI on most expensive stuff just isn’t really there unless you’re deep into it and want to treat yourself or you’re a professional(which is kinda the same but I’ll keep it separate). The caveat of course is that you have to start at a semi-reasonable place like you mentioned.
I don’t know why we want to believe that the high-end stuff is made with fairy dust and that we’re not capable of these things with just a bit of effort and trust in ourselves.
Absolutely agree with you, it’s about finding that value curve, where quality scales well with price. Say the cheapest ‘something’ is $10, the $20 one is twice as good, the $40 is maybe 70% better again but the $80 might only be 10% better than that.
As a beginner, I’d go for maybe the $20 option or the $40 if I were confident I’d stick with it. But yeah, it’s a pain when your ability to enjoy or succeed at a hobby is hampered by buying the cheapest option off AliExpress, haha.
You have to adjust the price of harmonicas (assuming you're talking about diatonic ones aka blues harps) to scale for this discussion. A $2.50 harp isn't a beginner's instrument, it's a child's toy. A beginner one would be more like $20. That's where I started and it would bend notes just fine. You can't really spend much more than 60 bucks on a top end harp.
The OP sceenshot is phrased negatively, but the basic premise is in a lot of hobbies people don't need the top gear because beginners won't actually be able to tell the difference. Mid tier gear is a different story.
I've got everything from an American G&L to a shitty $80 acoustic bass off Amazon. My favorite that I purchased instead of built is currently a mid level Alvarez, followed very closely by a butterscotch Squier 51 that I've had since they first came out (for under $100).
The biggest problem with low end guitars and bass guitars these days is mostly QC. Sharp frets, super high action, and bad tuners are fixable as long as your neck isn't complete garbage. The problem comes in when new folks really have no idea what it should feel like and they don't want to take it down and pay half the cost of the instrument to have a good setup done. So they suffer and quit when they could have spent $45 and turned a garbage $80 no name special into a reasonable beginner instrument.
To be fair, QC has also become a problem with much more expensive guitars as well in some cases (looking at you, Gibson).
I think with many hobbies there's a two-sided trap:
If you buy the absolute cheapest, you can end up hamstrung and unable to progress. On the other end, you can get caught up in having the very best, and miss out on actually progressing because you're convinced you just need to buy a better one.
eh, i think in photography you actually learn better habits and skills on older, more limited gear. it's easy to nail exposure when your camera can handle work at 3,000 iso, but then when you're at the edge of what your camera is capable of you'll be less able to tease out the performance you need. it's why i will keep my old canon rebel t2i. whenever someone wants to learn a little i toss them that thing. it can still take great pictures , you just have to work within its limitations. it's why my broadcast school made me learn to do reel to reel tape editing. when you know how much tape you have and how much of a pain it is to edit you will be way way better about getting your shot right the first time and every time.
these days, instead of using these tools as a crutch to shoot sloppier knowing that the gear can handle it now, i use them as a booster to do when more than i would have been able to before. i still shoot at the minimum viable iso every time on my a7siii, the difference is now i can keep shooting until the stars are plainly visible without needing a tripod.
ironically, this doesn't seem to hold quite as true for video now that i think about it. video is so tech and tool based. often it's newer guys that embrace the new tech and techniques that the old heads snub their noses at that end up doing the best. maybe not in Hollywood, but Hollywood is a totally different animal from what 99% of videographers do. I'm talking about video outside of Hollywood. often these newer tools will be lower quality less professional tools for quick turnaround. the kind of thing that corporate America is all about these days. quantity over quality is the name of the game in today's video world more often than not.
a video camera from 15 years ago is likely almost useless today for any real work, a stills camera from 25 years ago could be used to make a billboard ad right now.
I don't typically see people advocate for the cheapest gear, just not to go all-in. There is something to be said for how much you can learn from stuff that requires a bit more tuning or customization.
In airsoft we had people who didn't even know there were other options show up with $40 clear plastic guns from Walmart (they're awful) and guys with $2000 air-powered guns from the best brands show up all the time, and both of these people sucked. Typically, they both also had a bad time, because neither could realistically learn anything from their guns considering they were already as good as they were ever going to be.
My advice was always to start with a low-mid range electric rifle that can take a high-capacity magazine. Having like 400+ shots in a match is more than enough. Pick a design that is easy to get parts and accessories for so you can build on it. Someday you grow out of it and then you drop the real money on an airsoft rifle, but you can run a good starter rifle for a long time. I only replaced mine because it catastrophically broke after years of rough play: I learned a lot from modifying it and it made my next gun choice much more educated that I ever could have managed as a newbie.
Skateboards with no pop. Guitars with shit intonation. More broadly: consumables that wear through too quickly and cause people to nope out of the hobby because it is ‘too expensive’, the list goes on.
There is something reassuring about quality gear because beginners don’t always know or properly understand this stuff.
With that said there is a point beyond which those returns begin to diminish.
Yeah fuck this guys (OP, not the person I'm replying under) take. Hobbies need less gatekeepers and if I want to do research about gear, make nice purchases as a way to deepen my investment into the hobby so be it.
Example: I just got into fitness. I have almost no need for some of the products ive been buying, however through the research ive stumbled across some excellent articles and a few YouTube channels that inspire me. Even if the gear / gadgets do nothing more than inspire you to show up and try them out, its worked.
I used one but not the other because my best interpretation of modern social sensibilities is that "whore" is not considered terribly offensive when it's directed outside of its more literal sense, whereas "queer" is only acceptable in positive discussion of non-heteronormativity.
The second gear- usage just comes from a time (and communities behind the times) where the slur is used more broadly to mean "anybody I don't like."
You bought the most expensive gear for a hobby you don't yet know much about? I've met many in this hobby, and have never met anyone this dedicated! Good on you, mate! Can you keep me posted on your progress? I'm genuinely interested! Let me know if you need any help or advice, as I'd be ecstatic to help!
I hate these ~/mike types of gatekeeping bullshitters. People in a hobby being excited about newcomers to the hobby, is the reason we still have hobbies.
In some cases a hobby becoming more "mainstream" can also find it being suddenly overwhelmed by those that make it less fun - or less affordable - for others. Sometimes more people can make it more affordable later on (mass production) but supply and demand is also a thing in the mid-term.
If a kinda niche hobby becomes more popular temporarily, there's also the chance that waiting it out will score you some good barely-used gear for cheap as those that buy and try decide it's not for them.
If a kinda niche hobby becomes more popular temporarily, there's also the chance that waiting it out will score you some good barely-used gear for cheap as those that buy and try decide it's not for them.
Thats exactly what's happening in Germany with indoor weed growtents at the moment. We legalized homegrown weed in April, which caused a huge wave of people buying new equipment for double the regular price because of such high demand, and now suddenly people realize how much work it is and that small mistakes can easily ruin your harvest. So now the marked is slowly starting to be overflow with used equipment
But if they get into it, it will make it less likely I'll be able to buy their equipment from them later for cheap.
Also, the same type of people who go out and buy the most expensive crap in their new hobby are also usually the ones who talk like they know everything about the hobby and want to explain it to you.
Depending on the hobby, this is some fucked up gatekeeping.
My first thought was riding a motorcycle as a hobby, and that is one activity that many people severely underestimate how much expensive gear you should be wearing for your safety before you even consider doing it.
Helmet? What are you, some kind of weakling who has a brain to protect? Get a Harley, that's a motorcycle for us big overcompensators, and we don't do helmets, because there's nothing up there to protect!
Yeah the attitude of negativity against this is basically “you aren’t really into my hobby until you’ve spent twice as much money by starting with the crappy equipment and upgrading when you realize its crap”.
Or the beginner gear makes the hobby super tedious and difficult. Who knows if you would've liked it with proper tools instead of trying to make it work with a shitty, poorly working set up.
I don’t think people will judge you for not getting the worst stuff. As a cyclist I’m judging the person who hasn’t ridden in a decade and decides to buy a carbon fiber bike with all the coolest custom stuff, not the person who buys a steel or aluminum bike from a well respected shop. The Walmart bikes are better than walking but there’s a big jump there and it’s in reliability. The top of the line carbon fiber frame is less reliable, but it weighs less and as such high level riders and racers will see benefits there. A newb should buy a steel frame of an appropriate size from someone who can help make sure it’s the right bike for them. That’s the well researched hobbyist.
How about "people supporting my hobby"? People buying better gear (be it climbing gear, better bikes, airbrush kits for models, or whatever) show manufacturers that people want improved gear which ultimately raises the baseline quality of gear in general.
Real life isn't a video game where we each have to progress up a skill tree to "earn" better gear.
Maybe try engaging with the newbie with the fancy gadgets and making a friend who shares your hobby?
A lot of my camera gear is second hand too. It's a great way to save some serious $$. As an added bonus, some of my "used" gear was very lightly used by their previous owner.
There was definitely a dude into photography in my old neighborhood. The pawn shop was absolutely filled with incredibly cheap lenses with clearly very little use.
I interpret it differently. I have seen plenty of people putting up huge barriers of entry for themselfes before trying out a new hobby. They like the idea of a new hobby and try to hold themselves hostage with a huge investment, or in sad cases overspend because they go in badly informed. "Once I have spend so much money it's impossible I won't be able to motivate myself to keep going" oh no, it required more effort than buying stuff, I gave it away... I think persistance is indeed more important than the best gear. Get going and borrow/second hand what you need until you know you have the routine to make better equipment worthwhile. Get to know fellows who can help you make informed decisions after a few sessions. The climbing shoes in your basement don't help climbing halls to stay open. The table saw you never use doesn't help wood demand and availability in your area.
I have seen plenty of people putting up huge barriers of entry for themselfes before trying out a new hobby
Oh yeah my mom is just like that. She wants to try out stuff, but doesn't because getting into any hobby is "expensive" and she won't put the cost upfront before knowing if she'll like it or not. And she ends up doing nothing. She's retired and does absolutely nothing. It's heartbreaking. And I can't event convince her that if she wants to try out something, she could either ask for stuff on christmas/birthdays or go for a cheap, janky setup first and upgrade later.
You certainly aren't wrong. Persistence is almost always more important than "the right gear", but we shouldn't hold it against people just joining our hobbies who buy nice gear and try to be their friends (unless they're assholes about having the best stuff ofc). If they do end up getting into it fantastic! You have a new friend who likes the same hobby. If they don't, maybe they'll give you some of their better gear because you were cool and tried to help them get into the hobby.
My main point is to just be welcoming to newbies of all stripes. We were all in their shoes at one point so we know it can suck when someone is being elitist and unhelpful. Be the guy who helps out the new guy because you were the new guy.
There's also the flip side of this - clueless beginners buying needlessly expensive things (not to them because they're beginners but in general), in turn telling manufacturers that there's a market for needlessly expensive things. But hopefully the people with more sense outweigh them so that the market regulates itself.
Elaborate. Is your position that it is never appropriate to control access to something? That microcultures aren't worth preserving? That people with money deserve to do anything they want without judgment? Or do you just think I'm being disingenuous and used a commonly unpopular group to defend my position?
Right, but the issue is that if they don't know what they are doing then the gear is irrelevant. I'll give an example. If I'm skiing and I see someone hiking up to the off-piste bowl run in brand new topline gear, and they are visibly struggling to do the hike, I can ssume they are inexperienced and might really hurt themselves or crash into someone else.
The ones I'm thinking of are carbon fiber bodied, weigh about 600-800g, and easily hit 100mph/160kph. Usually we recommend newbies fly a few dozen hours in a simulator first but seeing people post pics with cuts from propellers going up their arm was a semi regular occurrence on the subreddit.
Be advised, for anything that requires preference or tuning "buy once cry once" is totally fallacious. The most expensive anything is not guaranteed to be the thing that suits you best. Still don't need a slur, but you don't walk into a clothing store and just buy the most expensive things. You have to put in some time and develop some preference before it makes sense to spend hard.
Now if you're just buying an angle grinder, sure, whatever buy the pricey one: it is probably made better.
Paying for expensive gear at the beginning may not be a bad idea, given the possibility: should you quit the hobby and try to sell your stuff, no one is going to buy your knockoff cheap equipment, while more quality stuff holds its value
There's also an argument to be made for good equipment making a hobby more accessible. Musical instruments especially. It's almost always much harder to make a cheap musical instrument sound nice than it is a good one. From clarinets to guitars to synths. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people who quit an instrument do so because they're trying to learn on a $100 Walmart special, something that ironically would only sound good in the hands of a professional who wouldn't touch it in the first place.
I once bought some cheap harmonicas and after about. 10 minutes was like "yeah, these are total crap and won't be any fun." So I gave them away for free to someone who knew exactly what they were and bought a real one.
You will also often have a better and more enjoyable experience with quality gear. Don't start playing the guitar on a 120€ Squier if you can afford even a 300€ Harley Benton.
True, but in my experience Squier guitars (expecially the Affinity series) still hold their price better in the secondary market than Harley Benton's.
Which is sad because I had a great experience with HB, but hey I guess having Fender's endorsment on the headstock adds some value
The Fender look is also so popular that it's likely what people picture when they go look for a guitar. That may help with resale as they recognize it from musicians and want the same
Yeah I’ll admit i definitely think more highly of someone using a clearly modified bike as a newb, but it’s partly because I’m into the bicycle repair and recycling scene
We have one in Finnish "välineurheilija". "Väline" is "sports equipment" and "urheilija" is athlete, so it's literally just "equipmentathlete" and used derogatorily towarsd people who — instead of actually practicing — just show up in very expensive gear.
Maybe gatekeeping is a poor method to encourage beginners in your hobby? Perhaps it might be better to encourage them simply to avoid the worst quality cheapos. It's nearly always better to learn on equipment that isn't garbage. It cuts down on waste, and at least you can sell it if the hobby doesn't work out.
And at least you won't waste more money on having to upgrade later when you're deemed ready. I'd rather learn on equipment I'm going to use for years than on something shit and have to upgrade shortly after.
because being excited about a new hobby isnt cool. actually starting a new hobby is an insult to all the people who'd been real fans of the hobby before you. this is the internet.
I have an idea, focus on what you like and don't leave any time to tear people down because it's just shitty and pointless and ruins hobbies for everyone.
In fishing they’re called Googans (no idea of the etymology), but I dislike the idea of gatekeeping in general. If someone’s doing something dangerous, or their googanism is somehow ruining your enjoyment of your hobby, I get it, but otherwise why should you care?
I play Dome Keeper and World of Warcraft: WotLK instead, but I also program on it, so I guess I don't count. Newer high-profile games don't have that je ne sais quoi that games from around 2004 had. Perhaps I've just played too many games, which makes them predictable, and those old games are just pure nostalgia for me.
We used to call them Ag-Nags (AGNG’s)… all gear, no game. It was a derogatory term, but it was more reserved for the type of person that would go buy the best gear and never invest the time to learn how to use it or why it had value other than the sticker price.
Go out and learn something new. Enjoy something new. If you have money to buy gear, that’s fine… but know that most people that pioneered whatever sport/hobby your delving into did a lot more with a lot less. Enjoy it for what it is and worry about the gear less… sometimes the squeeze makes the juice that much better.
Although gatekeeping is a bad attitude, I think the worst part of beginning a hobby is not getting super expensive gear as a beginner, but getting the wrong super expensive gear as a beginner.
As a homebrewer, my super janky setup has barely evolved in the 8 years I've been in the hobby. It's a very hands-on process, hard to control for temps and most of my tools are either upcycled or built from hardware store materials, but I know exactly how it works and can let my imagination run wild when creating recipes. Plus, it's fun to spend an afternoon with friends drinking beer while actually brewing beer. I see a lot of people splurging for a Brewfather and losing interest pretty quickly because everything is automated, so your "hobby" is mainly waiting for a timer to beep, or people "investing" in kits and making barely-better-than-low-end commercial beer.
I'm not really into photography anymore but when I started out, I was shooting film because camera bodies were super cheap back then, people discarded them because they were only interested in the lenses. People were buying 800-1000€ m4/3 cameras in droves and put expensive vintage lenses on them to get that "instagram look", which is useless except for driving up the price of good lenses because the sensor is so small that most of the character of the lens is lost. With a bit of patience, you could snag a full-frame, used Sony a7 for less money and actually getting what you paid for in the lens.
There's a trade-off, depending on the hobby, I guess. For some hobbies, very cheap gear won't even work properly. "Buy once, cry once," is something I hear often.
My buddies and I used to go paintballing in the woods near us. We'd throw on layers and grab our basic guns and go have fun. We invited this guy we knew from school, and dude went to the store and bought a paintball carbine, and a Gilly suit and just sat there picking everyone off. We didn't invite him a second time
Too real...I tried getting into paintballing in HS, bought someone's entry level gun but never got a chance to play. About 10 years later, after graduating college and getting a job, a buddy of mine wanted to start playing again so I dug out my old gun, tank and helmet. We played like 3 times 1on1 or 1v2 and each time I started researching better gear. After the 3rd time I finally got a new Azodin Blitz, new electric hopper, upgraded helmet I camo painted, and a new gear box.
We played 1 times after that when he started dating a new girl and he just kinda fell off the face of the earth.
My buddies and I bought guns at Walmart, used them for the summer and returned them within the 90 days. Especially in those days, Walmart used to take everything back
No problem helping them if I ever saw them actually ride. Mostly it was standing around moving the board back and forth with their foot while talking, then kicking it up to carry on to their next destination as the actual riders rolled off.
Maybe their cheap Kmart deck was so heavy they couldn't really do anything with it but put some cool Powell Peralta wheels on it and some rad grip tape.
The high-end equipment that is better in the hands of skilled users or professionals is the equivalent to the high-end equipment and items purchased in a game.
Whales in games start at the end game and would almost always lose against a skilled player with the same kit.
The advantage they gain in both gaming and other hobbys is only an advantage against less skilled players or hobbyists.
So thebmoney they spend on the best of the best isnt going to make them good at the hobby in question. The whale comparison fits with the theme perfectly.
Not me sitting here with hundreds of dollars in TTRPG manuals when my playgroup only meets once a week and we are in the middle of a pathfinder campaign.
I feel particularly called out because I spent all day today reading Mothership manuals and adventures and I have no idea when I'll get to play it.
You're good, dude. You're trying to immerse yourself in rules and the lore. No one would say shit if you downloaded all the pdf's for free and read them. This way, you're just supporting paizo.
You may have misunderstood, it's not just Paizo. I've been spending a lot of time reading the books for other game systems. Lately I've been reading the rules and other materials for Call of Cthulhu, Shadowdark, Mothership, and Numenera. Luckily, it's possible to find a lot of these manuals and adventures online for free, but some of them I still paid for. Also, a lot of the time I spent reading could have been spent prepping my next pathfinder session lol. I appreciate the sentiment of your comment though.
I stick to my original statement bud. You're just supporting the creators. There's nothing wrong with that. If anyone tells you otherwise just hit them with something like, "unlike you I support content worth keeping around."
And enjoy the ttrpg's my guy. I love to see a hobby I've loved for so long grow in popularity.
Why care? Don't yuk someone's yum. Envy is a bad look tbh.
I'm probably someone he hates, bought a shit load of hardware for my Farming/Truck Sims. But I use them ~40hr week and it makes me happy. But I guess go fuck myself because I can afford it.
I think there's different personalities involved here. The other thing that I'm personally curious about, did you play the sim and then think, "I should get this gear" or did you get the gear before ever playing it?
I think what's mostly the target of ire is people that have the mindset of having to buy their way to the top. Or trying to make up for lack of skill not by continuing to try the sport/event/game out, but getting the best of everything trying to avoid ever looking 'not good' at it despite it being obvious to everyone play that they've not done this thing before.
And not everyone is like this obv, but a lot of these people don't want to put in the effort to get better, just want to buy their way to the top. Somewhat related are the poor folks that put in huge amounts of time trying to get better but can't afford good gear. And then someone shows up with the top notch stuff, plays once and never uses the stuff again. Obviously it's their money, but is a shit feeling when you're cash strapped to see good gear rot.
Haha I did buy the gear as I bought the games, but not before I read a ton of posts and watched a bunch of YouTube videos for a few months to get a feel for the games and the gear. I eventually was like "ok I think I'll love this but hate it without any gear" which was very much the case haha. I totally love it and keep watching/reading about the sims and trying to improve my setup. I also didn't buy it all at once that's true.
I suppose I can see what ya mean especially if they think their gear makes them superior in some way or covering up skill issues. For the sim community it's not really as big of a deal because everyone is really chill there isn't much competition. We're basically all nerds who love to dial up immersion.
I'm in a similar boat. I spent a year researching the equipment in one of my hobbies and then dropped about $4k on gear. But the things I do simply wouldn't be possible without the gear, physics is physics.
Sure is, where's that applied to something used 40+ hr a week? You really don't know who you're talking to - I'm the guy with hardware purchased 20+ years ago and will repair them and they move with me.
I spend $$$$ on pro-grade gear but because I'm /c/buyforlife. Don't be mad because people have different views on frugality than you.
See your other comment defending gatekeeping, strange hill bb, but like I said envy not a good look tbh.
Did you drop all that money the second you got into the hobby or did you wade in the water a bit to see if ya liked it? Big differences there, and the relevance to this post hinges on your answer.
I did research a bunch of communities and YouTube videos of people's sim rigs first and how the games worked. Then decided if I got into the games I wouldn't really enjoy them without some hardware (wheel/pedals) which turned out to be the case. And yeah didn't get all the hardware I now use all at once and plan on some future upgrades like a stand to mount everything. Kinda like how flight sim players prefer their own sticks if that makes sense.
Holy shit I had no idea you were THE guy with hardware purchased 20+ years ago and will repair them and they move with me! Big fan of yours I even got a poster of you in my daughter's room so that she grows with a positive rolemodel in her life!
You spend $$$$ because you can and because you never stopped to think if you should. I am "mad", or rather, annoyed, by people burning resources because "those objects are totally necessary for a fulfilling life experience".
And what's funny is, you say that and then you go on detailing that you got a wheel and some pedals. Because that's totally what a full simulation slurge rig setup is.
Your actions agree with me while you defend the principle that you don't.
It's the reason I stopped making so much fun of people that recreate the "MAMIL" trope - "Middle Aged Men In Lycra". Meaning men who start their midlife crisis buying an expensive bicycle with neon-colored bicycle clothes and bicycle glasses and all the other stuff.
Why don't they just start riding their bicycle they already got? They can use their sunglasses and normal sport shorts. What's the problem?
But I some cases or age-ranges people want to make a change and get out of their usual habits. A real phase shift. People think they want to work out more regularly. Or really start a new hobby.
Buying a bunch of expensive stuff can increase the need to go through with this phase shift - at least in the minds of the people buying it.
As an adult picking up a new hobby often means that other things in their life have to make room. It's usually not that adults in their (let's say) mid 30s until early 50s have problems filling their day. So whatever new hobby or task they want to do has to push away other habits and stay there until these new habits can take root.
So starting with some expensive shit can be something I can understand - if one has the money.
If I would start making music again, I'd probably start by buying an expensive synth like the super-6 from UDO (that I always wanted to buy) instead of a bunch of bleep-bloop-machines that need a lot of initial time for understanding them and then only fulfill one specific function in my music.
I know it's probably not the opinion you're looking for but I want to let people know why people go with lycra and high end stuff.
Because it makes the hobby so much nicer. Bib shorts decrease discomfort a lot, riding in a sweaty warm cotton t-shirt is also not fun. A good bike weighs a lot less than something you already have (and I'm not talking weight weenie, oh this weighs 500g less so I will dump all my money into it).
Think it's the trap that if you continue with the hobby, all the starter gear is useless and all the money could have been spent on better equipment.
I paint miniatures. Not as often it as much as I would like to because of dividing my time between work, two year old and chores, but I have had the hobby for the last six years.
I have yet to purchase an airbrush, and I can get a perfectly decent starter set for lets say 20 USD. But I can also get a better set with high end compressor, better paint gun.for 60 USD. I know that if I keep getting better at using the airbrush I will eventually get the high end stuff, why not "save" money and get it right away.
EDIT: I’d like to clarify I agree about the gatekeeping this reinforces and this really doesn’t get used often, and if anything it sees more use among friends for silly reasons, like missing a Velcro on a shoe or something. Like I said I don’t know the origin because I don’t really engage with the “joke” that much.
Yeah I suppose, I think there’s a certain visual associated with it that gear plays a part of. Like big wall harness, TCPros, and chalk bucket clipped in the front, trying to top out some boulder that ends on a jug or something.
I bought the Bambu P1S 3d printer. I've never 3d printed and knew very little except for the dozen or so YouTube videos recommending it and how to use it, learned about filaments and everything else I now know I learned on the way.
I could have gotten one of a dozen <$500 3D printers. But would that just leave me wanting in the future? Will I be stuck with a cheaper tool after learning and experiencing the ceiling of it?
I see this mentality working on people who aren't interested in a hobby enough to justify a large purchase, people just trying out and see if they're interested kinda thing. But what if the subpar gear turns the person off from their poor experience?
I've heard "wallet warrior" been thrown around in gaming communities for people who just pay for high end accounts without having any skill to back it up.
I hate the disparaging of gatekeeping as inherently bad. Mountain biking has seen an uptick of people riding electric fat bikes, essentially just dirt bikes. It's bad enough when beginners are using normal bikes to ride in wet muddy conditions on trails that can't handle it or skidding into corners, it does so much more damage when they're tearing up the trail with a heavy motorized bike with wide tires. More gatekeeping would keep the trails in better conditions.
Granted, if it is a new activity or hobby where rookies don't destroy gear, it makes sense to me. It lets me skip the constant upgrading as my skills increase.
I'll buy a zillion dollar airbrush and learn to use it, and feel incentivised to take care of it. I didn't do the same with my first Jeep when I got into offloading. My first one was a cheap junker that I could roll if I did a rookie move.
As for a slur for people like me....I dunno, whatever makes you feel superior I guess. If it is creative or funny enough, I'll happily adopt it and use it 👍
I dabble in photography as a hobby. One of the sayings is, "the best camera is the one you have with you". The "best" cameras and lenses tend to be big and heavy, but are often overkill. There's a certain amount of prestige attached to this gear, IMO you're better off with compromise gear that's smaller/lighter - especially for frequent casual use. You'll take it out with you more.
In cabinetmaking my teachers used to say "doctors and lawyers" and it stuck to my life outside cabinetmaking. In music there's so many people who can hardly play or only play in their basements who have gear my gigging punk ass would never even think of owning. I went to a pedal Expo recently and I had no idea what half the stuff was and I play in a couple of pretty successful bands.
We see this a lot with skiing. I grew up working at mountains to afford it and my equipment is decent.
Then Joey (not sure where the name originated) will bomb past you on $5000 worth of equipment and end up in traction after wiping out on the first icy patch they see.
I had a coworker who was a sneaker head (traded in limited edition shoes). They called people who bought bad deals or was generally inexpirenced "Timmys" because the persons orders looked like a kid with their parents credit card.
The initial buy-in, especially at a Games Workshop/ Warhammer store is astronomical.
You'll need paintbrushes to start - here, try these, the most expensive paintbrushes you'll ever buy. And paints too, how about our mindboggling range of expensive paints?
When I took up mini painting again as an adult, with dirt-cheap acrylic paints and brushes, and achieved far better results than I ever did as a kid with the "proper" stuff, it was a real eye-opener.
That company has this amazing ability to suck the fun out of even the most interesting things. Their greed is honestly shocking, even Wizards of the Coast isn't that bad with Magic: The Gathering and no one thinks of MTG as having a fair or reasonable cost of entry.
My friend got himself a resin printer for much less than the cost of an army and started making and painting his own figurines. He's having a great time.
It's the money-men making the decisions now, instead of people who actually care about the product.
Mind you, this isn't sustainable - by shifting to the more "luxury" end of the hobby, and their refusal to embrace emerging technology, they're creating huge gaps in the market for exploitation.
They're on the verge of Nokia-ing themselves out of market dominance.
100%, I can't even imagine the pull GW would have if they entered the 3D printing space. They can't even get out of their own way to make money, they're idiots.
Invited a new guy to MTG Commander night. Showed up with a deck full of expensive cardboard because a deck he found online had all of them. Cool dude and still plays with us with more reasonably priced cardboard now.
IDK. When I pick up a new hobby I try and go mid tier. I'm not going to buy the 1000 dollar gear but also not the 50 dollar gear.
Though I did go and buy a way too expensive camera a few years ago. But it was more a return to a hobby than a new one. Don't regret the purchase, don't plan on upgrading any time soon.
What's crazy is "Fred" used to mean the exact, literal opposite. It's the only word I know of that has come to mean the full opposite of what it meant (except maybe "literally", but that's usually used for emphasis)
Fred used to mean the dude who showed up in jeanshorts on a huffy, who everyone was like "are you sure you want to join the group ride?", and then he ends up pulling the pack the whole way. Somewhere along the line it ended up meaning dentist, which is the slow dude who buys all the expensive gear. I literally don't understand it.
It’s the only word I know of that has come to mean the full opposite of what it meant
"Terrific" is one of those. It used to mean terrifying, but it means awesome now. "Awful" is another, it used to mean awe-inspiring instead of terrible.
Very surprising to see so many peole lashing out at "gatekeeping".
Frugality is a very important thing (something something global warming?), a beginner can not get any meaning out of the very best gear, diminishing returns are a thing.
Wasting resources because you are unable to resist the temptation of marketing is dumb, selfish and harmful.
No, of course I'm not talking about safety gear. No, I'm not advocating for buying the cheapest stuff.
Higher quality, more expensive gear does not necessarily contribute to waste. Sometimes, it can just be more expensive because their workers are paid good wages and materials are ethically sourced. Some very cheap gear can break much sooner, ending up being more wasteful.
You can get your Private Pilots License by buying a Phenom or Citation or Lear jet and doing all your training in top of the line luxury, if you spend the money. If you then find that what you want out of flying is going into backcountry airstrips and camping your initial investment is now worthless to you, and you not only need to buy a different type of plane, but learn an entirely different set of skills. So you should probably do the "basic beginner thing" and rent a basic flight school / club plane and see what you like/care about.
Every hobby is fractal. If nothing else, if you buy the top of the line super specialized equipment you might miss out on the other branch of the hobby you would actually be interested in. (that has it's own, different, top of the line super specialized equipment)
Sadly, yes. A vast amount of EMTs are volunteers. Sure, they are trained and certified but due to essential services, mostly medical ones, not working inside capitalism without ducking things up royally, some municipalities with have paid medics and volly EMTs. That's why you hear a lot of, oh, you're the "ambulance driver". So a number of these folks are in it for their own interests, weither because they are in medical school or are adrenaline jockies. The blend of those two tends to breed Wackers.
what about people like me that get the highest end off brand stuff from aliexpress? apart from my used kona frame, my whole bike is aliexpress parts including rims, hoses, and bolts
Not exactly, but strong overlap between this and "gear heads." They obsess over the tech, specs, and ofc gear. Ask them about anything subtler than that and it's clear they don't actually care about the activity in itself - just getting swept up in hype cycles and flexing on other gear heads.
Can also mean people that are really into cars or motorcycles, but I don't think it's as pejorative in that case?
Not to bash on newbies, but it's definitely a thing. It's really only sad if it causes them to waste their money on something that ultimately isn't for them. If they're actually enjoying themselves then that's cool.
Anyway I love gatekeeping on this kind of shit because I have a privation fetish, so grain of salt on my opinion.
I'd consider myself one, but I'm always skeptical when I meet others because I know my opinions are not aligned with what people generally consider a petrol head.
I feel the term can have negative connotations because whilst some may think of the kind of people who have their own little project car which they keep in their garage or put on a trailer and take to events or track days, others will instantly think of those asshole teenagers with their riced up compact cars who tear around the streets without insurance.
Personally, I live by ‘buy the gear that lets you grow in your new hobby’. You don’t usually need to buy the most expensive item, but you certainly should not buy the cheap shit either.
Take photography for example. You don’t need a $5000 pro camera to get started, but at leat something better than a simple point and shoot would be preferable to start. Like a decent prosumer DSLR. That way you can learn manual photography, how to edit raw, you can experiment with lenses, etc.
I’ve never once regretted buying better gear than I needed. I’m still thanking past me for investing a bit more in things that are still useful to me today.
It is both an insult as well as an addiction/habit.
Amateur and Pro TT players usually have trained from childhood as early as 3 years old tend to have an almost god-like superior ability to learn and relearn in the sport at any age.
But most folks get into TT at an older age around their late-20s.
TT reflexes cannot be gained at the later stages of life. Almost a miracle for an older player to "git gud".
Hence, you will find the older players have the income to buy equipment used by the Top-10 players in the world. Hence "Equipment Junkie".
The number of permutations and combinations in TT equipment is crazy for such a "simple" looking sport.
Real problem is when you buy all this expensive stuff and your game gets WORSE not better. You "lend" your equipment to other players and all of them seem to play better than you with your own equipment.
So you spent a lot of money, and don't want to let anyone touch your equipment ( because it would be embarrassing for them to become "better" players using your stuff while you wallow in misery of not benefitting from your own purchases ).
So EJs tend to have a extremely absurd amount of equipment that they have spent exorbitant prices purchasing and do not want to sell it to others ( again for fear their purchase is fuelling other peoples abilities at their own expense ) but they keep buying the next "Top-10" world TT players latest equipment without even understanding the sport.
It is an endless cycle which continues as more new blood is added to the mix and more EJs end caught up in the craze.
I'm the first to admit that I am one, but backpacking has a similar thing, gear junkies. They like the gear and having the lightest weight x and the most multifunction y more than the actual walking and sleeping outside.
It's the whole reason why titanium sporks exist when a disposable plastic spoon is cheaper, lighter, and lasts perfectly fine for the duration of 99% of backpacking trips.
Early adopter.
Early, because in terms of skills way too early big investments in a hobby that is likely to be abandoned quickly.
[Edit]: Maybe poser is better.
It's really common advice to not start with the cheapest gear. Yes a lot of us learned to play on dime store guitars but would have suffered less with a quality instrument. The same is true for just about everything.
Exactly. I started learning harmonica on those $20 pack of 8 and struggled for weeks to get anything to sound close to what I wanted. When I spent $60 on a decent instrument, I could suddenly do what I'd been practicing. There's a sweet spot for getting good enough equipment to actually learn without blowing the budget on something you may not continue doing
Right and top end is several hundreds or thousands. So $60 is cheap just not cheapest.
Woodworking planes.
You can go to Home Depot and get a plane for $15-20, and it will - mostly - cut wood. Spend $50-60 and get a decent name brand tool that gives a lot less grief. Spend $500 and get a Lie Nielsen that's just on another level.
Here's the thing, though: you have to be pretty competent to appreciate the difference between the $50 and $500 tools; and if you know what you're doing, you can easily tune the $15 so it works almost as well as the $500. Buy cheap to get started; upgrade if it turns out you stick with the hobby. I'll never know if I could have learned easier/faster starting with a $50 plane, but my guess is that I'd still have been gouging the shit out of everything.
Another thing that works really well is buying old when it comes to some tools.
I have a handful of 80 year old Stanley planes that are all the same quality as the expensive Lie Nielsen options, but I got them for about 50 bucks each.
Ohhh youuu
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But learning to tune a plane takes skill and time. People get into woodworking because they want to build things out of wood. The love of adjusting tools comes later.
The setup thing is no joke. I made a sub $200 mandolin play well out of its league with just some sandpaper to lower the nut height. I still got the nicer one but for the time inbetween it was great. Now the friend I bought it from for $50 has it on loan since she can actually physically play it now with the lower string height.
I’ve learned that the ROI on most expensive stuff just isn’t really there unless you’re deep into it and want to treat yourself or you’re a professional(which is kinda the same but I’ll keep it separate). The caveat of course is that you have to start at a semi-reasonable place like you mentioned.
I don’t know why we want to believe that the high-end stuff is made with fairy dust and that we’re not capable of these things with just a bit of effort and trust in ourselves.
Lowering the string height on my guitar made it so much nicer to play. Didn't need to spend thousands, just needed a little work.
Absolutely agree with you, it’s about finding that value curve, where quality scales well with price. Say the cheapest ‘something’ is $10, the $20 one is twice as good, the $40 is maybe 70% better again but the $80 might only be 10% better than that.
As a beginner, I’d go for maybe the $20 option or the $40 if I were confident I’d stick with it. But yeah, it’s a pain when your ability to enjoy or succeed at a hobby is hampered by buying the cheapest option off AliExpress, haha.
You have to adjust the price of harmonicas (assuming you're talking about diatonic ones aka blues harps) to scale for this discussion. A $2.50 harp isn't a beginner's instrument, it's a child's toy. A beginner one would be more like $20. That's where I started and it would bend notes just fine. You can't really spend much more than 60 bucks on a top end harp.
The OP sceenshot is phrased negatively, but the basic premise is in a lot of hobbies people don't need the top gear because beginners won't actually be able to tell the difference. Mid tier gear is a different story.
No not to start with cheapest gear, but get the cheapest one that makes sense, then upgrade it to the best you can afford once you like it.
Makes sense as in the recommended entry level equipment, not the cheap waste from aliexpress/amazon.
This way you can get the feel of the hobby before you plunge a huge load of money on it.
Eh. I've been playing an $80 no name bass for five years. No one has any idea, because it sounds fine.
You don't need to go all out. Ability is more important than name brand.
It must have some decent machine heads to hold tune. Did you buy it used?
It's pretty great actually. It rarely goes off tune. Takes about 20 seconds with a snark.
It was brand new, off Amazon of all places. I did have to buy a new strap though, the one that came with it broke immediately.
To be honest it does have a "trumpet" sound that I'm not fond of.
I've got everything from an American G&L to a shitty $80 acoustic bass off Amazon. My favorite that I purchased instead of built is currently a mid level Alvarez, followed very closely by a butterscotch Squier 51 that I've had since they first came out (for under $100).
The biggest problem with low end guitars and bass guitars these days is mostly QC. Sharp frets, super high action, and bad tuners are fixable as long as your neck isn't complete garbage. The problem comes in when new folks really have no idea what it should feel like and they don't want to take it down and pay half the cost of the instrument to have a good setup done. So they suffer and quit when they could have spent $45 and turned a garbage $80 no name special into a reasonable beginner instrument.
To be fair, QC has also become a problem with much more expensive guitars as well in some cases (looking at you, Gibson).
I teach guitar. I have lost more students to a crappy beginner instrument than to any lack of desire, ambition, or ability.
I think with many hobbies there's a two-sided trap:
If you buy the absolute cheapest, you can end up hamstrung and unable to progress. On the other end, you can get caught up in having the very best, and miss out on actually progressing because you're convinced you just need to buy a better one.
eh, i think in photography you actually learn better habits and skills on older, more limited gear. it's easy to nail exposure when your camera can handle work at 3,000 iso, but then when you're at the edge of what your camera is capable of you'll be less able to tease out the performance you need. it's why i will keep my old canon rebel t2i. whenever someone wants to learn a little i toss them that thing. it can still take great pictures , you just have to work within its limitations. it's why my broadcast school made me learn to do reel to reel tape editing. when you know how much tape you have and how much of a pain it is to edit you will be way way better about getting your shot right the first time and every time.
these days, instead of using these tools as a crutch to shoot sloppier knowing that the gear can handle it now, i use them as a booster to do when more than i would have been able to before. i still shoot at the minimum viable iso every time on my a7siii, the difference is now i can keep shooting until the stars are plainly visible without needing a tripod.
ironically, this doesn't seem to hold quite as true for video now that i think about it. video is so tech and tool based. often it's newer guys that embrace the new tech and techniques that the old heads snub their noses at that end up doing the best. maybe not in Hollywood, but Hollywood is a totally different animal from what 99% of videographers do. I'm talking about video outside of Hollywood. often these newer tools will be lower quality less professional tools for quick turnaround. the kind of thing that corporate America is all about these days. quantity over quality is the name of the game in today's video world more often than not.
a video camera from 15 years ago is likely almost useless today for any real work, a stills camera from 25 years ago could be used to make a billboard ad right now.
Also it is important to know where to spend a money. I think that almost all hobbies have some gear where the cheapest option is best.
Especially if it's something that can be sold second hand for decent money, that way if you end up not sticking with it you can just sell your gear.
I don't typically see people advocate for the cheapest gear, just not to go all-in. There is something to be said for how much you can learn from stuff that requires a bit more tuning or customization.
In airsoft we had people who didn't even know there were other options show up with $40 clear plastic guns from Walmart (they're awful) and guys with $2000 air-powered guns from the best brands show up all the time, and both of these people sucked. Typically, they both also had a bad time, because neither could realistically learn anything from their guns considering they were already as good as they were ever going to be.
My advice was always to start with a low-mid range electric rifle that can take a high-capacity magazine. Having like 400+ shots in a match is more than enough. Pick a design that is easy to get parts and accessories for so you can build on it. Someday you grow out of it and then you drop the real money on an airsoft rifle, but you can run a good starter rifle for a long time. I only replaced mine because it catastrophically broke after years of rough play: I learned a lot from modifying it and it made my next gun choice much more educated that I ever could have managed as a newbie.
Skateboards with no pop. Guitars with shit intonation. More broadly: consumables that wear through too quickly and cause people to nope out of the hobby because it is ‘too expensive’, the list goes on.
There is something reassuring about quality gear because beginners don’t always know or properly understand this stuff.
With that said there is a point beyond which those returns begin to diminish.
Same in road and mountainbiking, we have BSOs, bike shaped objects.
Yeah fuck this guys (OP, not the person I'm replying under) take. Hobbies need less gatekeepers and if I want to do research about gear, make nice purchases as a way to deepen my investment into the hobby so be it.
Example: I just got into fitness. I have almost no need for some of the products ive been buying, however through the research ive stumbled across some excellent articles and a few YouTube channels that inspire me. Even if the gear / gadgets do nothing more than inspire you to show up and try them out, its worked.
But also objectively silly to buy the most expensive. Guitar one being a les Paul vs a seagull is probably not a good value proposition.
Most expensive is not always best, what fits you the best is the best and you don't know what that is until you try.
gearsluts
beautiful, succinct.
immaculate thank you
I've heard "gear whore," as well as harsher q-slur that makes it rhyme
Why do you think you'd need to not sensor yourself with whore, but can't say queer?
On a side note, it rhymes, but it doesn't really make as much sense as slut or whore.
I used one but not the other because my best interpretation of modern social sensibilities is that "whore" is not considered terribly offensive when it's directed outside of its more literal sense, whereas "queer" is only acceptable in positive discussion of non-heteronormativity.
The second gear- usage just comes from a time (and communities behind the times) where the slur is used more broadly to mean "anybody I don't like."
"Gear queer"? Seems like a tongue twister. I thought "queer" was reclaimed or something like that, dunno if that's the case.
I feel very personally called out by this as someone with ADHD lmao. Do not look in the closet of my craft/game room.
What do you mean you didn't buy a Canon 1 series? That point and shoot is a PoS you loser. 😝
Eh, slutshaming, misogyny vibes
what about gear guzzler or something, i dunno i wish gear dragon or gear god didnt make the sound cool
also gear geek ig
Men are the biggest gear sluts so I’m fine with turning the misogyny around.
Thats uh, not how it works.
besides itd correlate more with wealth than gender
How about this?
I hate these ~/mike types of gatekeeping bullshitters. People in a hobby being excited about newcomers to the hobby, is the reason we still have hobbies.
In some cases a hobby becoming more "mainstream" can also find it being suddenly overwhelmed by those that make it less fun - or less affordable - for others. Sometimes more people can make it more affordable later on (mass production) but supply and demand is also a thing in the mid-term.
If a kinda niche hobby becomes more popular temporarily, there's also the chance that waiting it out will score you some good barely-used gear for cheap as those that buy and try decide it's not for them.
Thats exactly what's happening in Germany with indoor weed growtents at the moment. We legalized homegrown weed in April, which caused a huge wave of people buying new equipment for double the regular price because of such high demand, and now suddenly people realize how much work it is and that small mistakes can easily ruin your harvest. So now the marked is slowly starting to be overflow with used equipment
just had to bring up Linux, didn't you?
Linux is what I thought of when I saw ~/mike. What else could that mean?
Oh, and I use Arch, BTW.
But if they get into it, it will make it less likely I'll be able to buy their equipment from them later for cheap.
Also, the same type of people who go out and buy the most expensive crap in their new hobby are also usually the ones who talk like they know everything about the hobby and want to explain it to you.
Depending on the hobby, this is some fucked up gatekeeping.
My first thought was riding a motorcycle as a hobby, and that is one activity that many people severely underestimate how much expensive gear you should be wearing for your safety before you even consider doing it.
Helmet, jeans, and a tank top. Psh, easy.
You forgot flip flops.
Steel toed crocs for the Harley guys
With the caveat that, if you can read my tank top, the bitch fell off.
Helmet? What are you, some kind of weakling who has a brain to protect? Get a Harley, that's a motorcycle for us big overcompensators, and we don't do helmets, because there's nothing up there to protect!
The helmet's for passengers, duh.
Motorcycle example: buying a brand new 1000cc before you even know if you want to ride
Oh that's that new "x"?! Tell me about it?!
Be excited people are joining your hobbies. Without people hobbies die.
I don't recognize it, I use Mastodon on desktop and Megalodon on phone, same login for both.
Buy hards?
This is what I see suggested every time this meme is reposted, so I guess that's the right answer
I like this one, but I've heard the term whales for gaming communities. Hobby whale is probably my go-to
Whales is the industry term in gaming lol. I do like buyhard though.
Well that's just perfect
Perfection
What about "Well researched hobbyist"
Sometimes the cheapest option is so much worse than just getting the right gear from the beginning.
Yeah the attitude of negativity against this is basically “you aren’t really into my hobby until you’ve spent twice as much money by starting with the crappy equipment and upgrading when you realize its crap”.
Or the beginner gear makes the hobby super tedious and difficult. Who knows if you would've liked it with proper tools instead of trying to make it work with a shitty, poorly working set up.
I don’t think people will judge you for not getting the worst stuff. As a cyclist I’m judging the person who hasn’t ridden in a decade and decides to buy a carbon fiber bike with all the coolest custom stuff, not the person who buys a steel or aluminum bike from a well respected shop. The Walmart bikes are better than walking but there’s a big jump there and it’s in reliability. The top of the line carbon fiber frame is less reliable, but it weighs less and as such high level riders and racers will see benefits there. A newb should buy a steel frame of an appropriate size from someone who can help make sure it’s the right bike for them. That’s the well researched hobbyist.
Yeah but the TOP end MOST expensive gear is far different from the "right gear".
How about "people supporting my hobby"? People buying better gear (be it climbing gear, better bikes, airbrush kits for models, or whatever) show manufacturers that people want improved gear which ultimately raises the baseline quality of gear in general.
Real life isn't a video game where we each have to progress up a skill tree to "earn" better gear.
Maybe try engaging with the newbie with the fancy gadgets and making a friend who shares your hobby?
But how am I supposed to feel better about myself when I see someone who can spend more money on my hobby than me?
You can be the guy who shows him how to actually use that fancy equipment he spent so much money on.
People buying stuff also makes for a healthy secondary market. 90% of my brewing gear is 2nd hand.
A lot of my camera gear is second hand too. It's a great way to save some serious $$. As an added bonus, some of my "used" gear was very lightly used by their previous owner.
There was definitely a dude into photography in my old neighborhood. The pawn shop was absolutely filled with incredibly cheap lenses with clearly very little use.
Thank you for this comment. I've seen nothing but negativity on Lemmy all day
Yeah, it's feeling a bit like Reddit lately.
I interpret it differently. I have seen plenty of people putting up huge barriers of entry for themselfes before trying out a new hobby. They like the idea of a new hobby and try to hold themselves hostage with a huge investment, or in sad cases overspend because they go in badly informed. "Once I have spend so much money it's impossible I won't be able to motivate myself to keep going" oh no, it required more effort than buying stuff, I gave it away... I think persistance is indeed more important than the best gear. Get going and borrow/second hand what you need until you know you have the routine to make better equipment worthwhile. Get to know fellows who can help you make informed decisions after a few sessions. The climbing shoes in your basement don't help climbing halls to stay open. The table saw you never use doesn't help wood demand and availability in your area.
Oh yeah my mom is just like that. She wants to try out stuff, but doesn't because getting into any hobby is "expensive" and she won't put the cost upfront before knowing if she'll like it or not. And she ends up doing nothing. She's retired and does absolutely nothing. It's heartbreaking. And I can't event convince her that if she wants to try out something, she could either ask for stuff on christmas/birthdays or go for a cheap, janky setup first and upgrade later.
You certainly aren't wrong. Persistence is almost always more important than "the right gear", but we shouldn't hold it against people just joining our hobbies who buy nice gear and try to be their friends (unless they're assholes about having the best stuff ofc). If they do end up getting into it fantastic! You have a new friend who likes the same hobby. If they don't, maybe they'll give you some of their better gear because you were cool and tried to help them get into the hobby.
My main point is to just be welcoming to newbies of all stripes. We were all in their shoes at one point so we know it can suck when someone is being elitist and unhelpful. Be the guy who helps out the new guy because you were the new guy.
OK but that is not what threads like this are about, that's just post hoc justification for emotional responses
There's also the flip side of this - clueless beginners buying needlessly expensive things (not to them because they're beginners but in general), in turn telling manufacturers that there's a market for needlessly expensive things. But hopefully the people with more sense outweigh them so that the market regulates itself.
Better question... how do we find our own self-esteem without denigrating others for making choices that are absolutely none of our concern?
I vote cowpattycrusaders
Eh, a little gatekeeping is good. Especially when it prevents people with more dollars than sense from overrunning the culture of an enthusiast group.
That justification is pathetically weak.
Elaborate. Is your position that it is never appropriate to control access to something? That microcultures aren't worth preserving? That people with money deserve to do anything they want without judgment? Or do you just think I'm being disingenuous and used a commonly unpopular group to defend my position?
If it's a dangerous hobby then this becomes a safety concern.
But the most expensive gear isn't necessarily more dangerous than the entry level gear, and in some cases, may even be safer.
Right, but the issue is that if they don't know what they are doing then the gear is irrelevant. I'll give an example. If I'm skiing and I see someone hiking up to the off-piste bowl run in brand new topline gear, and they are visibly struggling to do the hike, I can ssume they are inexperienced and might really hurt themselves or crash into someone else.
FPV drones and the surge in popularity of BnF quads. You used to have to at least know how to solder it all together.
Oh god. You can buy one on Temu for $10. I'm guessing they overheat and explode.
The ones I'm thinking of are carbon fiber bodied, weigh about 600-800g, and easily hit 100mph/160kph. Usually we recommend newbies fly a few dozen hours in a simulator first but seeing people post pics with cuts from propellers going up their arm was a semi regular occurrence on the subreddit.
I'm in. How do I get started? Please and thank you 😁
A slur? Why?
Who cares what people want to do with their money.
Buy once cry once.
Be advised, for anything that requires preference or tuning "buy once cry once" is totally fallacious. The most expensive anything is not guaranteed to be the thing that suits you best. Still don't need a slur, but you don't walk into a clothing store and just buy the most expensive things. You have to put in some time and develop some preference before it makes sense to spend hard.
Now if you're just buying an angle grinder, sure, whatever buy the pricey one: it is probably made better.
I’m not sure I’d call buying clothes a hobby but I understand what you’re saying.
I saw this posted elsewhere and the best one I saw was "Buyhard"
Paying for expensive gear at the beginning may not be a bad idea, given the possibility: should you quit the hobby and try to sell your stuff, no one is going to buy your knockoff cheap equipment, while more quality stuff holds its value
If you can afford it, absolutely.
There's also an argument to be made for good equipment making a hobby more accessible. Musical instruments especially. It's almost always much harder to make a cheap musical instrument sound nice than it is a good one. From clarinets to guitars to synths. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people who quit an instrument do so because they're trying to learn on a $100 Walmart special, something that ironically would only sound good in the hands of a professional who wouldn't touch it in the first place.
I once bought some cheap harmonicas and after about. 10 minutes was like "yeah, these are total crap and won't be any fun." So I gave them away for free to someone who knew exactly what they were and bought a real one.
You will also often have a better and more enjoyable experience with quality gear. Don't start playing the guitar on a 120€ Squier if you can afford even a 300€ Harley Benton.
True, but in my experience Squier guitars (expecially the Affinity series) still hold their price better in the secondary market than Harley Benton's.
Which is sad because I had a great experience with HB, but hey I guess having Fender's endorsment on the headstock adds some value
The Fender look is also so popular that it's likely what people picture when they go look for a guitar. That may help with resale as they recognize it from musicians and want the same
In cycling we call them dentists.
But if someone is trying out one of my hobbies idgaf what gear they can afford. We all start somewhere.
Yeah I’ll admit i definitely think more highly of someone using a clearly modified bike as a newb, but it’s partly because I’m into the bicycle repair and recycling scene
We have one in Finnish "välineurheilija". "Väline" is "sports equipment" and "urheilija" is athlete, so it's literally just "equipmentathlete" and used derogatorily towarsd people who — instead of actually practicing — just show up in very expensive gear.
Those people create the second hand market. Celebrate them.
Maybe gatekeeping is a poor method to encourage beginners in your hobby? Perhaps it might be better to encourage them simply to avoid the worst quality cheapos. It's nearly always better to learn on equipment that isn't garbage. It cuts down on waste, and at least you can sell it if the hobby doesn't work out.
And at least you won't waste more money on having to upgrade later when you're deemed ready. I'd rather learn on equipment I'm going to use for years than on something shit and have to upgrade shortly after.
Why?
Because „being asshole because of phone“ is soooooo 2010 and gatekeeping normally doesn’t feel good enough anymore.
because being excited about a new hobby isnt cool. actually starting a new hobby is an insult to all the people who'd been real fans of the hobby before you. this is the internet.
If anyone likes what I like then it's my duty to ruin it for them by making a hostile environment where it's no longer fun.
I don't have hobbies because I want to enjoy them, only to feel superior to others.
I see you’ve met MOBA players.
I have an idea, focus on what you like and don't leave any time to tear people down because it's just shitty and pointless and ruins hobbies for everyone.
Back in my day, when I tied an onion to my belt, we called these people 'pozers'
I understand the term, but wasn't it "posers"?
Maybe his day was in the nineties, when switching s for z and c for k was a shortcut to coolness!
I think you mean Koolnezz
How did you find my icq name?
Now heres a real pozeur, icq used numbers!
Pogz were so poggerz
How dare you fucking @ me like that.
Poseurs
It's french
In fishing they’re called Googans (no idea of the etymology), but I dislike the idea of gatekeeping in general. If someone’s doing something dangerous, or their googanism is somehow ruining your enjoyment of your hobby, I get it, but otherwise why should you care?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/googan
Is this the same?
Fuck off Mike. Let people enjoy themselves however they want.
ADHD suffers
The real answer
In skateboarding the term is "poser".
I wouldn’t call them names, but there is something to be said about people with $2500 gaming pc who only ever play league of legends or Fortnite
If they're playing league or fortnite they're probably already getting called plenty of names.
Hah, the joke is on you as I don’t even play those anymore! My PC has just been gathering dust since my hell raiser spawned last year!!
I play Dome Keeper and World of Warcraft: WotLK instead, but I also program on it, so I guess I don't count. Newer high-profile games don't have that je ne sais quoi that games from around 2004 had. Perhaps I've just played too many games, which makes them predictable, and those old games are just pure nostalgia for me.
Whatever graphic card you have in your system is probably not required for programming
Unless its ML
Personally I find that the games with the best gameplay work well on my $150 Thinkpad
We used to call them Ag-Nags (AGNG’s)… all gear, no game. It was a derogatory term, but it was more reserved for the type of person that would go buy the best gear and never invest the time to learn how to use it or why it had value other than the sticker price.
Go out and learn something new. Enjoy something new. If you have money to buy gear, that’s fine… but know that most people that pioneered whatever sport/hobby your delving into did a lot more with a lot less. Enjoy it for what it is and worry about the gear less… sometimes the squeeze makes the juice that much better.
Whales
Right, those
Is this for like, someone who buys the biggest social media site for top dollar and then doesn't really know what to do with it ?
Although gatekeeping is a bad attitude, I think the worst part of beginning a hobby is not getting super expensive gear as a beginner, but getting the wrong super expensive gear as a beginner.
As a homebrewer, my super janky setup has barely evolved in the 8 years I've been in the hobby. It's a very hands-on process, hard to control for temps and most of my tools are either upcycled or built from hardware store materials, but I know exactly how it works and can let my imagination run wild when creating recipes. Plus, it's fun to spend an afternoon with friends drinking beer while actually brewing beer. I see a lot of people splurging for a Brewfather and losing interest pretty quickly because everything is automated, so your "hobby" is mainly waiting for a timer to beep, or people "investing" in kits and making barely-better-than-low-end commercial beer.
I'm not really into photography anymore but when I started out, I was shooting film because camera bodies were super cheap back then, people discarded them because they were only interested in the lenses. People were buying 800-1000€ m4/3 cameras in droves and put expensive vintage lenses on them to get that "instagram look", which is useless except for driving up the price of good lenses because the sensor is so small that most of the character of the lens is lost. With a bit of patience, you could snag a full-frame, used Sony a7 for less money and actually getting what you paid for in the lens.
"Yuppie" is already a word.
There's a trade-off, depending on the hobby, I guess. For some hobbies, very cheap gear won't even work properly. "Buy once, cry once," is something I hear often.
My buddies and I used to go paintballing in the woods near us. We'd throw on layers and grab our basic guns and go have fun. We invited this guy we knew from school, and dude went to the store and bought a paintball carbine, and a Gilly suit and just sat there picking everyone off. We didn't invite him a second time
Too real...I tried getting into paintballing in HS, bought someone's entry level gun but never got a chance to play. About 10 years later, after graduating college and getting a job, a buddy of mine wanted to start playing again so I dug out my old gun, tank and helmet. We played like 3 times 1on1 or 1v2 and each time I started researching better gear. After the 3rd time I finally got a new Azodin Blitz, new electric hopper, upgraded helmet I camo painted, and a new gear box.
We played 1 times after that when he started dating a new girl and he just kinda fell off the face of the earth.
My buddies and I bought guns at Walmart, used them for the summer and returned them within the 90 days. Especially in those days, Walmart used to take everything back
Posers.
It's what we called kids in the 80's who would buy and carry around a high-end skateboard just to look cool but had no ability to ride it.
See, if they actually have zero intention of riding, that is a poser and I don't feel bad. If they are trying to learn, help them
No problem helping them if I ever saw them actually ride. Mostly it was standing around moving the board back and forth with their foot while talking, then kicking it up to carry on to their next destination as the actual riders rolled off.
Maybe their cheap Kmart deck was so heavy they couldn't really do anything with it but put some cool Powell Peralta wheels on it and some rad grip tape.
...or so I've heard...
I thought it was "Whales"
I prefer "wallet warrior" for more general use cases besides games with gambling mechanics or in game purchases.
Saw "buyhard" in this thread and it is 100% going to replace whale and wallet warrior for me lol.
Buyhard! Omg 🤣
Whale is a big spender in a game.
A bit different from accumulating physical equipment.
The high-end equipment that is better in the hands of skilled users or professionals is the equivalent to the high-end equipment and items purchased in a game.
Whales in games start at the end game and would almost always lose against a skilled player with the same kit.
The advantage they gain in both gaming and other hobbys is only an advantage against less skilled players or hobbyists.
So thebmoney they spend on the best of the best isnt going to make them good at the hobby in question. The whale comparison fits with the theme perfectly.
Victims. Of salespeople.
I love them because I can buy greatly discounted gear after they return it or consign it. And I never see them back where I go, they couldn't make it.
Most hobbies started using what was available. The activity arose from the impetus.
Mountain climbers used sneakers. Gary Fisher used dirtbike parts on his mountain bikes at first.
All the expensive cushions and benches in the world won't meditate for you. Likewise, worshipping a meditator won't help you.
At some point, you have to do it.
Not me sitting here with hundreds of dollars in TTRPG manuals when my playgroup only meets once a week and we are in the middle of a pathfinder campaign.
I feel particularly called out because I spent all day today reading Mothership manuals and adventures and I have no idea when I'll get to play it.
You're good, dude. You're trying to immerse yourself in rules and the lore. No one would say shit if you downloaded all the pdf's for free and read them. This way, you're just supporting paizo.
Read on and keep enjoying the hobby.
You may have misunderstood, it's not just Paizo. I've been spending a lot of time reading the books for other game systems. Lately I've been reading the rules and other materials for Call of Cthulhu, Shadowdark, Mothership, and Numenera. Luckily, it's possible to find a lot of these manuals and adventures online for free, but some of them I still paid for. Also, a lot of the time I spent reading could have been spent prepping my next pathfinder session lol. I appreciate the sentiment of your comment though.
I stick to my original statement bud. You're just supporting the creators. There's nothing wrong with that. If anyone tells you otherwise just hit them with something like, "unlike you I support content worth keeping around."
And enjoy the ttrpg's my guy. I love to see a hobby I've loved for so long grow in popularity.
Why care? Don't yuk someone's yum. Envy is a bad look tbh.
I'm probably someone he hates, bought a shit load of hardware for my Farming/Truck Sims. But I use them ~40hr week and it makes me happy. But I guess go fuck myself because I can afford it.
I think there's different personalities involved here. The other thing that I'm personally curious about, did you play the sim and then think, "I should get this gear" or did you get the gear before ever playing it?
I think what's mostly the target of ire is people that have the mindset of having to buy their way to the top. Or trying to make up for lack of skill not by continuing to try the sport/event/game out, but getting the best of everything trying to avoid ever looking 'not good' at it despite it being obvious to everyone play that they've not done this thing before.
And not everyone is like this obv, but a lot of these people don't want to put in the effort to get better, just want to buy their way to the top. Somewhat related are the poor folks that put in huge amounts of time trying to get better but can't afford good gear. And then someone shows up with the top notch stuff, plays once and never uses the stuff again. Obviously it's their money, but is a shit feeling when you're cash strapped to see good gear rot.
Haha I did buy the gear as I bought the games, but not before I read a ton of posts and watched a bunch of YouTube videos for a few months to get a feel for the games and the gear. I eventually was like "ok I think I'll love this but hate it without any gear" which was very much the case haha. I totally love it and keep watching/reading about the sims and trying to improve my setup. I also didn't buy it all at once that's true.
I suppose I can see what ya mean especially if they think their gear makes them superior in some way or covering up skill issues. For the sim community it's not really as big of a deal because everyone is really chill there isn't much competition. We're basically all nerds who love to dial up immersion.
I'm in a similar boat. I spent a year researching the equipment in one of my hobbies and then dropped about $4k on gear. But the things I do simply wouldn't be possible without the gear, physics is physics.
Think you're missing the point. If you use it 40 h a week you're not just buying it to flex on everyone. Have fun farming brother 🤙🤙
Haha that's def true, I sure do love using it haha. Thanks bb
Consumism is a thing.
Sure is, where's that applied to something used 40+ hr a week? You really don't know who you're talking to - I'm the guy with hardware purchased 20+ years ago and will repair them and they move with me.
I spend $$$$ on pro-grade gear but because I'm /c/buyforlife. Don't be mad because people have different views on frugality than you.
See your other comment defending gatekeeping, strange hill bb, but like I said envy not a good look tbh.
Did you drop all that money the second you got into the hobby or did you wade in the water a bit to see if ya liked it? Big differences there, and the relevance to this post hinges on your answer.
I did research a bunch of communities and YouTube videos of people's sim rigs first and how the games worked. Then decided if I got into the games I wouldn't really enjoy them without some hardware (wheel/pedals) which turned out to be the case. And yeah didn't get all the hardware I now use all at once and plan on some future upgrades like a stand to mount everything. Kinda like how flight sim players prefer their own sticks if that makes sense.
Holy shit I had no idea you were THE guy with hardware purchased 20+ years ago and will repair them and they move with me! Big fan of yours I even got a poster of you in my daughter's room so that she grows with a positive rolemodel in her life!
You spend $$$$ because you can and because you never stopped to think if you should. I am "mad", or rather, annoyed, by people burning resources because "those objects are totally necessary for a fulfilling life experience".
And what's funny is, you say that and then you go on detailing that you got a wheel and some pedals. Because that's totally what a full simulation slurge rig setup is.
Your actions agree with me while you defend the principle that you don't.
Does 'poseur' cover this?
Only if you're, like, French and totally from 1988. You poser.
So the real answer is... if you're just starting out, go mid with your gear investment.
It depends.
It's the reason I stopped making so much fun of people that recreate the "MAMIL" trope - "Middle Aged Men In Lycra". Meaning men who start their midlife crisis buying an expensive bicycle with neon-colored bicycle clothes and bicycle glasses and all the other stuff.
Why don't they just start riding their bicycle they already got? They can use their sunglasses and normal sport shorts. What's the problem?
But I some cases or age-ranges people want to make a change and get out of their usual habits. A real phase shift. People think they want to work out more regularly. Or really start a new hobby. Buying a bunch of expensive stuff can increase the need to go through with this phase shift - at least in the minds of the people buying it.
As an adult picking up a new hobby often means that other things in their life have to make room. It's usually not that adults in their (let's say) mid 30s until early 50s have problems filling their day. So whatever new hobby or task they want to do has to push away other habits and stay there until these new habits can take root.
So starting with some expensive shit can be something I can understand - if one has the money.
If I would start making music again, I'd probably start by buying an expensive synth like the super-6 from UDO (that I always wanted to buy) instead of a bunch of bleep-bloop-machines that need a lot of initial time for understanding them and then only fulfill one specific function in my music.
I know it's probably not the opinion you're looking for but I want to let people know why people go with lycra and high end stuff.
Because it makes the hobby so much nicer. Bib shorts decrease discomfort a lot, riding in a sweaty warm cotton t-shirt is also not fun. A good bike weighs a lot less than something you already have (and I'm not talking weight weenie, oh this weighs 500g less so I will dump all my money into it).
For hardware tools, buy cheap. If you use it enough to require a replacement, replace with expensive (i.e. quality).
Aka: the harbor freight method. I'm a big proponent of this one.
The exception being PPE and things with a dangerous failure mode like a car jack. Buy mid for them.
In reality, buy whatever you can afford, don't give a shit what others thing. Enjoy your life.
Think it's the trap that if you continue with the hobby, all the starter gear is useless and all the money could have been spent on better equipment.
I paint miniatures. Not as often it as much as I would like to because of dividing my time between work, two year old and chores, but I have had the hobby for the last six years. I have yet to purchase an airbrush, and I can get a perfectly decent starter set for lets say 20 USD. But I can also get a better set with high end compressor, better paint gun.for 60 USD. I know that if I keep getting better at using the airbrush I will eventually get the high end stuff, why not "save" money and get it right away.
In rock climbing we use “Gumby” no clue why.
EDIT: I’d like to clarify I agree about the gatekeeping this reinforces and this really doesn’t get used often, and if anything it sees more use among friends for silly reasons, like missing a Velcro on a shoe or something. Like I said I don’t know the origin because I don’t really engage with the “joke” that much.
I thought Gumby was just a beginner.
Yeah I suppose, I think there’s a certain visual associated with it that gear plays a part of. Like big wall harness, TCPros, and chalk bucket clipped in the front, trying to top out some boulder that ends on a jug or something.
Yeah I guess many skilled sports have some unique slang for a beginner or someone with no clue. Grom is another weird one for surf/skate.
I bought the Bambu P1S 3d printer. I've never 3d printed and knew very little except for the dozen or so YouTube videos recommending it and how to use it, learned about filaments and everything else I now know I learned on the way.
I could have gotten one of a dozen <$500 3D printers. But would that just leave me wanting in the future? Will I be stuck with a cheaper tool after learning and experiencing the ceiling of it?
I see this mentality working on people who aren't interested in a hobby enough to justify a large purchase, people just trying out and see if they're interested kinda thing. But what if the subpar gear turns the person off from their poor experience?
No we don't, we need less gatekeeping
I've heard "wallet warrior" been thrown around in gaming communities for people who just pay for high end accounts without having any skill to back it up.
Rich poser back in my day
You can get surprisingly good quality from one of those $.99 lapel mics. I would say quality voice recording comes more from seat time than anything.
Dentists.
In the UK we say "All the gear and no idea"
Us guitarists call them blues lawyers.
I hate the disparaging of gatekeeping as inherently bad. Mountain biking has seen an uptick of people riding electric fat bikes, essentially just dirt bikes. It's bad enough when beginners are using normal bikes to ride in wet muddy conditions on trails that can't handle it or skidding into corners, it does so much more damage when they're tearing up the trail with a heavy motorized bike with wide tires. More gatekeeping would keep the trails in better conditions.
"Golfers"
I am so guilty of this!
Granted, if it is a new activity or hobby where rookies don't destroy gear, it makes sense to me. It lets me skip the constant upgrading as my skills increase.
I'll buy a zillion dollar airbrush and learn to use it, and feel incentivised to take care of it. I didn't do the same with my first Jeep when I got into offloading. My first one was a cheap junker that I could roll if I did a rookie move.
As for a slur for people like me....I dunno, whatever makes you feel superior I guess. If it is creative or funny enough, I'll happily adopt it and use it 👍
How about "Rich people I'm jealous of?"
"All the gear, no idea."
Hey, watch the slurs, sheesh...
At the gym, I call them "Resolutioners," and they usually only last til February.
I usually just refer to them as having "more money than brains"....
I dabble in photography as a hobby. One of the sayings is, "the best camera is the one you have with you". The "best" cameras and lenses tend to be big and heavy, but are often overkill. There's a certain amount of prestige attached to this gear, IMO you're better off with compromise gear that's smaller/lighter - especially for frequent casual use. You'll take it out with you more.
In cabinetmaking my teachers used to say "doctors and lawyers" and it stuck to my life outside cabinetmaking. In music there's so many people who can hardly play or only play in their basements who have gear my gigging punk ass would never even think of owning. I went to a pedal Expo recently and I had no idea what half the stuff was and I play in a couple of pretty successful bands.
When I skated we called them posers.
richginners, P2W hobbyists, hof-rince's.
Whales. Although whales applies to people who just spend a ton of money regardless of experience.
In the cycling community, we call them “dentists”.
Where I'm from, it's called a showbag because it looks expensive but there's nothing inside. All the gear; no talent.
We see this a lot with skiing. I grew up working at mountains to afford it and my equipment is decent.
Then Joey (not sure where the name originated) will bomb past you on $5000 worth of equipment and end up in traction after wiping out on the first icy patch they see.
So the word we use is a Joey.
Maybe like a baby kangaroo out of pocket before they're ready?
Could be, one of the guys at the mountain was a kiwi. Maybe it was Australian related.
Isn't that just a noob?
This word already exist.
I had a coworker who was a sneaker head (traded in limited edition shoes). They called people who bought bad deals or was generally inexpirenced "Timmys" because the persons orders looked like a kid with their parents credit card.
Tourists.
Warhammerers?
The initial buy-in, especially at a Games Workshop/ Warhammer store is astronomical.
You'll need paintbrushes to start - here, try these, the most expensive paintbrushes you'll ever buy. And paints too, how about our mindboggling range of expensive paints?
When I took up mini painting again as an adult, with dirt-cheap acrylic paints and brushes, and achieved far better results than I ever did as a kid with the "proper" stuff, it was a real eye-opener.
One time I saw a guy who made a papier mache Necron Pylon.
That company has this amazing ability to suck the fun out of even the most interesting things. Their greed is honestly shocking, even Wizards of the Coast isn't that bad with Magic: The Gathering and no one thinks of MTG as having a fair or reasonable cost of entry.
My friend got himself a resin printer for much less than the cost of an army and started making and painting his own figurines. He's having a great time.
It's the money-men making the decisions now, instead of people who actually care about the product.
Mind you, this isn't sustainable - by shifting to the more "luxury" end of the hobby, and their refusal to embrace emerging technology, they're creating huge gaps in the market for exploitation.
They're on the verge of Nokia-ing themselves out of market dominance.
100%, I can't even imagine the pull GW would have if they entered the 3D printing space. They can't even get out of their own way to make money, they're idiots.
Payforwinners.
But yes, if it doesn't specifically hurt the community, then prob don't gatekeep.
In RuneScape it's a choob
20 years in gielinor and I never herd that. Probably because I am one
I read that as “guy liner” at first.
r*ddit link apparently I've had it mentally backwards all this time lol. It's been years since I've seen anyone say it in game
Ha! Thanks for the link, by this definition I am certainly a choob :p
Invited a new guy to MTG Commander night. Showed up with a deck full of expensive cardboard because a deck he found online had all of them. Cool dude and still plays with us with more reasonably priced cardboard now.
all the gear and no idea
This is definitely the common one, even if it is a bit wordier than some others suggested here.
No idea what the downvotes are about.
IDK. When I pick up a new hobby I try and go mid tier. I'm not going to buy the 1000 dollar gear but also not the 50 dollar gear.
Though I did go and buy a way too expensive camera a few years ago. But it was more a return to a hobby than a new one. Don't regret the purchase, don't plan on upgrading any time soon.
In cycling, this person is called Fred or sometimes Dentist.
What's crazy is "Fred" used to mean the exact, literal opposite. It's the only word I know of that has come to mean the full opposite of what it meant (except maybe "literally", but that's usually used for emphasis)
Fred used to mean the dude who showed up in jeanshorts on a huffy, who everyone was like "are you sure you want to join the group ride?", and then he ends up pulling the pack the whole way. Somewhere along the line it ended up meaning dentist, which is the slow dude who buys all the expensive gear. I literally don't understand it.
"Terrific" is one of those. It used to mean terrifying, but it means awesome now. "Awful" is another, it used to mean awe-inspiring instead of terrible.
fast pass tourists
Pay to fail
Very surprising to see so many peole lashing out at "gatekeeping". Frugality is a very important thing (something something global warming?), a beginner can not get any meaning out of the very best gear, diminishing returns are a thing.
Wasting resources because you are unable to resist the temptation of marketing is dumb, selfish and harmful.
No, of course I'm not talking about safety gear. No, I'm not advocating for buying the cheapest stuff.
Higher quality, more expensive gear does not necessarily contribute to waste. Sometimes, it can just be more expensive because their workers are paid good wages and materials are ethically sourced. Some very cheap gear can break much sooner, ending up being more wasteful.
Just to go ridiculous:
You can get your Private Pilots License by buying a Phenom or Citation or Lear jet and doing all your training in top of the line luxury, if you spend the money. If you then find that what you want out of flying is going into backcountry airstrips and camping your initial investment is now worthless to you, and you not only need to buy a different type of plane, but learn an entirely different set of skills. So you should probably do the "basic beginner thing" and rent a basic flight school / club plane and see what you like/care about.
Every hobby is fractal. If nothing else, if you buy the top of the line super specialized equipment you might miss out on the other branch of the hobby you would actually be interested in. (that has it's own, different, top of the line super specialized equipment)
Gear dads. At least in the music gear world
All the gear, no idea
I'm kind of surprised nobody has suggested "tryhard".
In Emergency Medical Services (EMS) we have a name for them. "Wackers" or "Buffs" both being masturbatory references.
Wait are there hobbyist EMTs?
Sadly, yes. A vast amount of EMTs are volunteers. Sure, they are trained and certified but due to essential services, mostly medical ones, not working inside capitalism without ducking things up royally, some municipalities with have paid medics and volly EMTs. That's why you hear a lot of, oh, you're the "ambulance driver". So a number of these folks are in it for their own interests, weither because they are in medical school or are adrenaline jockies. The blend of those two tends to breed Wackers.
Yikes. Yet another reason to avoid going anywhere near places run by Republicans, that’s unhinged levels of crazy.
The opulent newb.
You call them people with ADHD :p
There is a term borrowed from the finance world that may or may not apply
"Whale"
Dilettante
what about people like me that get the highest end off brand stuff from aliexpress? apart from my used kona frame, my whole bike is aliexpress parts including rims, hoses, and bolts
Mr. Big shoes
All the gear, no idea?
Hipsters?
tablet players
How the fuck are you supposed to get into eurorack then.
You don’t 🙃
Probably for the best.
Not exactly, but strong overlap between this and "gear heads." They obsess over the tech, specs, and ofc gear. Ask them about anything subtler than that and it's clear they don't actually care about the activity in itself - just getting swept up in hype cycles and flexing on other gear heads.
Can also mean people that are really into cars or motorcycles, but I don't think it's as pejorative in that case?
Not to bash on newbies, but it's definitely a thing. It's really only sad if it causes them to waste their money on something that ultimately isn't for them. If they're actually enjoying themselves then that's cool.
Anyway I love gatekeeping on this kind of shit because I have a privation fetish, so grain of salt on my opinion.
Petrol heads here in the UK 👍
I'd consider myself one, but I'm always skeptical when I meet others because I know my opinions are not aligned with what people generally consider a petrol head.
I feel the term can have negative connotations because whilst some may think of the kind of people who have their own little project car which they keep in their garage or put on a trailer and take to events or track days, others will instantly think of those asshole teenagers with their riced up compact cars who tear around the streets without insurance.
They’ve always been gapers. They sit in their cool gear and gape at those that can do.
Anxiety?
Gotta love that undertone of jealousy:D
Personally, I live by ‘buy the gear that lets you grow in your new hobby’. You don’t usually need to buy the most expensive item, but you certainly should not buy the cheap shit either.
Take photography for example. You don’t need a $5000 pro camera to get started, but at leat something better than a simple point and shoot would be preferable to start. Like a decent prosumer DSLR. That way you can learn manual photography, how to edit raw, you can experiment with lenses, etc.
I’ve never once regretted buying better gear than I needed. I’m still thanking past me for investing a bit more in things that are still useful to me today.
Posers and AGNGs, yeah.
The worst is when they engage in communities run by people trying to market overpriced goods to rubes.
AGNG?
All gear no game
For guitarists definitely 'wooden heads' cus different woods are their outlet.
Pay Pig? Whale?
For climbing, those are called "punters"
Budorks
Isn't that just a smurf?
That would be hiding your skill to compete, as a pro/intermediate/etc, among beginners.
True, but it can also mean using high-level end-game gear, or a combination of the two...
Yes, other games I've seen 'twink' used to mean exactly this as well.
i poser? e
Barney or kook—- surf term for newbs who ruin a surfing experience; feel superior, vastly overestimate their abilities or lack their of.
In table-tennis / pingpong,
Equipment Junkies.
It is both an insult as well as an addiction/habit.
Amateur and Pro TT players usually have trained from childhood as early as 3 years old tend to have an almost god-like superior ability to learn and relearn in the sport at any age.
But most folks get into TT at an older age around their late-20s.
TT reflexes cannot be gained at the later stages of life. Almost a miracle for an older player to "git gud".
Hence, you will find the older players have the income to buy equipment used by the Top-10 players in the world. Hence "Equipment Junkie".
The number of permutations and combinations in TT equipment is crazy for such a "simple" looking sport.
Real problem is when you buy all this expensive stuff and your game gets WORSE not better. You "lend" your equipment to other players and all of them seem to play better than you with your own equipment.
So you spent a lot of money, and don't want to let anyone touch your equipment ( because it would be embarrassing for them to become "better" players using your stuff while you wallow in misery of not benefitting from your own purchases ).
So EJs tend to have a extremely absurd amount of equipment that they have spent exorbitant prices purchasing and do not want to sell it to others ( again for fear their purchase is fuelling other peoples abilities at their own expense ) but they keep buying the next "Top-10" world TT players latest equipment without even understanding the sport.
It is an endless cycle which continues as more new blood is added to the mix and more EJs end caught up in the craze.
I'm the first to admit that I am one, but backpacking has a similar thing, gear junkies. They like the gear and having the lightest weight x and the most multifunction y more than the actual walking and sleeping outside.
It's the whole reason why titanium sporks exist when a disposable plastic spoon is cheaper, lighter, and lasts perfectly fine for the duration of 99% of backpacking trips.
Self-indulgent weiners
Most hobbies in my experience they would be called bunnies. Not so much in tech, but why not.
A tourist. I don't agree with the sentiment, but it is another I have heard
kali linux
Early adopter.
Early, because in terms of skills way too early big investments in a hobby that is likely to be abandoned quickly.
[Edit]: Maybe poser is better.
It’s ‘bourgeoisie’
Fred and Barney
No idea.
You can appropriate "Boots" maybe?
Noobs? This is different from newbs.
The term you are looking for is "twink"
The World of Warcraft term, or the gay community term? Important distinction.
Both. The WoW term (which is actually from Ultima Online originally) comes from the queer term.
???
wikipedia appears to say twinks are only accidentally privileged
Most people in WoW and Souls games use it to mean someone who purposely remains lower level but gets better gear.
Ie. Staying under a soul level to PvP with a certain level of player using late game gear. (PvP in Souls games is based on soul level brackets)
I just discovered words can have multiple different meanings