Yeah same meme then. OKC and every other dating site have gone so far down hill they're underwater at this point.
I was on OKC 10 years ago and I really liked it. I'm OKC now and my fucking god is it useless... It's tinder 2.0 along with every other dating site Match Group bought... Oh and it's like $50+ a month if you're crazy enough to pay.
I'm sure I'll still be on there in another 10 years when it's just swiping from live stream to live stream...
I paid a little bit and met my wife on one. No idea why anyone has a problem with paying for something they use. Two children later, I would say a lifetime the woman of my dreams made the few months that I paid for the tinder subscription was worth it. There were useful features then that came with it. No idea about it now.
I am sorry. If it makes you feel any better I only had one healthy long term relationship in my life, I dated plenty before I met my wife but yeah best not speak of it. So given my track record of like 20-1 if I became single again I am just going to call it.
As s genx I totally agree, seeing the problems so clearly then just saying 'I can't believe the boomers let this hsppen' while doing nothing about any of it is infuriating.
Tinder and the other apps are pretty bad. Partly because they want to make money, not matches.
But also partly because the users suck at using them. People are like "I want interesting conversation" but reply with nothing but "lol". Come in my dude put some work in.
But also partly because the users suck at using them. People are like “I want interesting conversation” but reply with nothing but “lol”.
A lot of profiles on these sites are entirely fake or bot-operated, to boost the impression that you're getting matches. Some profiles are run by data miners who swipe match on everyone just to get the additional data that comes with a match. Others are run by businesses that are using the profiles for promotion.
Slapping "I want interesting conversation" in the profile is a great way to bait engagement, but more often than not there's no dating prospect on the other side of the profile. This isn't a string of incredibly vapid women you're running into, its dummy accounts and scams.
My coworker told me that even restaurants will post "profiles", get matches and set up first dates at their establishments. The person will obviously get stood up, but they are more likely to spend money in the establishment since they're already there. Like maybe a drink or 2.
Better about your future potential dating pool but worse about the tech industry is where I went with it.
There's a cute little audiobook I listened to recently, called "The Verifiers" which was written by a person who worked professionally in the dating app industry and turned her experience into a thriller novel. Definitely made me feel better about getting the run around, since this is apparently the professional standard and not just me being uniquely stupid.
yup if any dating service needs you to pay a subscription instead of a one time payment and it helps you until you succeed, they have an active incentive to keep you as a customer as long as possible and guess what makes you stop being a customer.
I'm not someone remotely into that market, but my understanding is there isn't a huge demand for this outside the Ashley Madison type who are cheating. The various cliques have their own methods of finding each other and generally aren't interested in broadcasting that to a wider market.
A lot of the polyamorous people I know are on the apps or have tried them, but aren't happy with them. Partly because the apps generally aren't good, and partly because you end up with a lot of wasted "your desired relationship structure isn't what I want" matches.
OkCupid has some support for it, but that app hasn't been good or interesting in years. Tinder lets you pick your relationship type, but you can't like filter by it. Soneone threatened to "report me" on Hinge (I think?) for wanting a non monogamous relationship. Maybe they thought relationship anarchy was something dangerous.
This might be different outside of NYC, where I am.
Look me and my wife met on a dating site. No shame in this. We both had pretty detailed profiles with lots of photos and luckily for us we were living fairly close by in the same stages in life. Our first date we both kinda knew what we were about. At the same time neither of us had real social media accounts so yeah no weird stalking games.
Now, me and her dated for three years until we moved in together. That was enough time. Time to see each other as people, warts and all. We have our share of embarrassing memories. I remember the time she got wasted and threw up BBQ squid and wine on me on the train. She remembers the time my card got declined at dinner. We had seen each other frustrated, failing at something, ill, broke, in the morning, drunk, out of work, and all the other downs real humans have. Both of us decided we were okay with that and well we are still together today.
Now I see the black mirror like horrorshow that is tinder from my younger friends and hear them say things how they consider it sus if you aren't on Instagram. I see them acting like a date is a job interview. Gameification and weird cryptic terms like "high value". Long lists of must haves and must nots.
Mother of fuck how and why would anyone want this? I felt like we had it pretty well figured out when in my early 20s. You could meet someone the traditional way or you could use a dating site and find someone who has the same fun hobbies as you. Oh they aren't exactly who you normally date? Ok. See what happens.
Gameification and weird cryptic terms like "high value".
Oh man have you seen that ad that is all about how it's a dating site only for "high value" people called like Elite Singles or some bullshit.
Literally they make it seem everyone is literally some Sherlock type when most people that think they are, are much more likely Lastrade except hyping crypto more.
I think everyone is just looking for a way to pretend harder that nothing is wrong and if they grind their face against the wheel a little harder they will be finally able to be good enough off to not think about it all. It seems miserable.
"High value" is also a term used in the FemaleDatingStrategy community, which is a community of women who advocate for traditional chivalry, abstinence until commitment, and strongly opposes BDSM under the belief that it's essentially abuse.
I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the emptymology of the common usage of the term.
They're flipping the Pickup Artist concepts on men, so that particular concept long predates app based dating and the FDS community. "High Value" is definitely a specific phrase used in discussing attracting women over 20 years ago.
We both had pretty detailed profiles with lots of photos
Same with my wife and I who met online a couple of years back. Even back then, lots of other men would complain about having a hard time getting matches, being poorly treated on dates, etc. which did happen to me, but just as often I'd make a promising connection.
I think part of the reason I was relatively successful despite not being terribly attractive is I treated online dating a bit like online shopping, whereas I think others treat it like a virtual version of bumping in to someone at a bar.
To give you an example of a profile I might skip:
My idea of a great first date: Just about anything!
Likes: food, traveling, and probably your dog
Dealbreakers: pineapple on pizza
First prompt tells me nothing about you besides you're easy going. That's a great opportunity to share something you like doing, squandered.
Second prompt is the same likes that everybody writes in their profile, and doesn't lead to naturally staring a unique conversation. Everybody likes "travel and food" so, "Where have you travelled," and, "What's your favourite food," are well-trodden and tired topics IMO. Either share something specific about food or travel, or mention something else entirely.
Third prompt takes another opportunity to save us both some time by stating an actual deal breaker, squandered into a cliche joke.
A better version of that profile could be (just winging it off the top of my head):
My idea of a great first date: I love to ride my bike! Let's ride some trails and then get a dessert. I know the best spot in town for croissants!
Likes: blunt communication and lots of personal space to get to know someone
Dealbreakers: if you still live with your parents
First prompt tells me that you like biking which could be a conversation breaker about which trails you like, what type of bike you ride, and we could also talk about that croissant place, or our other favourite desserts.
Second prompt is useful as someone approaching dating you, and could be a deal breaker for potential suitors.
Third prompt states a real deal breaker which could save us both time, and it's not something (religion, political affiliation, hair colour) which is usually covered in the profile and filterable in your preferences, or in photos.
In my opinion, there were a lot more of the former type of profiles, but I found it easier to break the ice and connect with the latter type of profile. The former profile is fine if you're both just looking for a hook up and the prompts are secondary to the eye candy, but if you're looking for a long lasting connection, it's all about the prompts.
My question to those who are dating just a couple of years later: how have things changed?
whereas I think others treat it like a virtual version of bumping in to someone at a bar.
Little to do with your point, but I think it's worth mentioning here.
I read this whole thing about how it's absolutely nothing like bumping into someone in a bar which is part of why it's so bad.
The jist of it is that in a bar, your options are limited. So even if someone doesn't visually meet your ideal, you often get over the hump quickly and get to know them as a person which might all of a sudden make them attractive to you.
On an app, if they don't meet your visual ideal, the next candidate is just a figurative swipe left and so there is zero chance to get over that hump.
Plus, in an app, you don't see the group of people surrounding the most attractive options, whether they are trying to filter through them or have fun with each one they like.
Also, you can lower your tolerance of the less fun stuff because it feels like there's always more options available. Like someone but they aren't available on a free day you have? Someone else might be available on that day, so just pivot to them. Or try both at once, or keep the other on the backburner, only to discover they could read the sudden adjusted level of interest and aren't as keen themselves anymore.
It happened once to me in RL. I met one girl at a bar one night, hit it off with her well. Then, that same week, she wasn't able to come to another bar I was going to and I started out wingmanning for a friend by talking to the friend of someone he was interested in so he could talk to her and ended up going home with that friend. I couldn't handle having two girls being interested and ended up screwing it up with both. But that's what it almost always feels like with online dating, and I bet it's even worse for women who get way more matches.
And on top of that, I know that Tinder makes more money if someone wants to find a partner but fails to. I know they have incentive to hire people (or bots) to match, chat for a bit, then flake out. Or independent scammers looking to chat and take money. I have a paid sub and had what seemed like a great match right as renewal was coming up, then she flaked before a date could happen. Who knows if she was real or not, she could have been but at this point it's hard to get excited about meeting anyone, which makes it harder to engage genuinely, and I hardly feel anything even when I do match with someone that I think I'd really like.
I'm glad I'm generally content being single or this would be pretty depressing.
I don't get all the hate dating apps get. I met my wife on bumble, so maybe I'm biased. But still, it seems significantly better than the methods previous generations had (blind dating, speed dating, getting introduced to random friends that might happen to have something in common).
What's the alternative? You just happen to get lucky enough to meet someone in your daily life that's a good fit? One of the advantages of dating apps is that you get introduced to a much larger pool of potential partners than you otherwise would, which makes it significantly easier to filter out the wheat from the chaff and find a good fit.
I think part of the problem is dating apps keep getting worse and worse as they try to squeeze as much profit out of their users as possible. Tinder just came out with a $500/month tier
Pretty much this. I remember OG OkCupid and it was rad. It was a site ran by data nerds who wanted to help nerds find each other, and they wrote pretty frequent blog posts about their findings and how they were changing things up all for like ~$15 a month. All that started eroding until they got bought out by Match and its a cesspool of microtransactions now.
Dating apps are designed to keep you on them. They cant make money of you use them for a few months and then delete it.
Young people are actually using social media platforms like Instagram and Snapchat to date. People you sorta knew in high school or college, share some mutual interests, and then hang out from there and see what happens.
Not really. Humans live very differently today than they did throughout the past several millions of years. Cities and 9-5's were not the norm until relatively recently. Unless you have a group you hang out with where you constantly meet new people it can be very different to find a partner in modern society without some form of dating.
That's funny. Obviously cities go back thousands of years, but I don't think it was the norm for the majority of humans to live in them until the last several hundred years or less. But in general, I do believe humans have fewer group social activities than we used to, and therefore fewer opportunities to meet new people.
There's a cultural aspect to this too. I know in China it's common for parents to be matchmakers and find other parents that have single kids for them to go on dates with. And historically in India arranged marriage has been common. So I'm probably looking at this from a western lens. But still, as far as dating goes online dating seems to be the modern evolution of it. And in my opinion an improvement.
Paid apps is where it went wrong. It stopped being something that happened organically and became a gamified P2W experience that catered to narcissists.
And the narcissistic aggressive assholes made it 1000x worse for everyone else...
So many "upgrades" were made to "protect" people but all that really amounted to was: people won't see your messages unless they already like you (so no introducing yourself). Message limits so you can only send one new message a day, so for us guys who get ignored 99.9999999999% of the time we're now stuck on the site 10000x longer. No browsing method, only swiping so people "disappear" once you've made a decision in that moment. Etc etc...
Now sites like plenty of fish have fucking live steaming .... Talk about narcissists... They even have messages like "not looking, only here to stream." They're just milking the desperate guys who throw money at them for validation or whatever...
Dating, especially as a 30+ in 2024 is disgustingly depressing...
I'm sure those who are still dating do now, but dating apps didn't really start becoming popular until the mid 2010s, and millennials were well into their 20s already. Lots were able to take that last chopper out.
Does Gen Z lack any space to explore mutual hobbies and meet new people?
Shared interests have pretty much moved online, free/cheap places for physical meetups are disappearing, and in a car-dependent world you’re not gonna meet someone randomly in-between your planned out destinations.
I mean it seems the same as it ever was to me, newly single younger Millennial here and I’m seeing a Gen Z woman.
Seems the biggest change in the last 4ish years is there are a lot more ethical Non-monogamy people, but I’m wondering if that’s just a youth culture thing.
The woman I’ve been seeing says that she is ENM, but all her actions indicate otherwise to me. Which I don’t mind, Im not really non-monogamous, just pretty open and flexible with things. Also below age 25-30 have a lot more “doesn’t want kids” vibes going on
It was more late 00s. I met my wife on OkC in 2008, and Match and it had been around for awhile at that point. It was still something vaguely embarrassing, and people didn't usually talk about using those.
The apps hadn't been so thoroughly ruined by Match Group yet. OKCupid used to publish interesting detailed reports about dating habits. Plenty of Fish wasn't full of bots and scammers. The apps that charged you for basic features were largely avoided. The experience was weird and new.
The dating app landscape as it is now is basically just whichever is the latest one until Match acquires it.
Probably not a coincidence the app doesn't work out. They earn money as long as people stay on the app, so you finding a long term partner is bad for their business, so they want you to keep dating.
Those of us who are right on the cusp (let's say 95-99) all use the apps but end up finding partners irl instead anyway. Either that or not at all. Just not on the apps.
I started dating my partner before Tinder existed and when I watch my friends play Tinder it looks like such a depressing nightmare. It’s like… got microtransactions and shit. Wondering when they’re adding a battlepass.
Makes for a good dick menu, but for actual relationships it makes me sooooo happy I’ve found my eternal person before all of this shit existed.
Many millennials developed relationships / got married before dating apps really blew up. Plus, the cultural pressures of today make being single look very different from when I was.
They did and still do. Anybody dating today regardless of their age is likely to try a dating app at least for a bit. Don't buy into this generational division.
I'm old enough to be in this relationship for nearly 20 years. It started on a dating site, in the early 2000's Internet and that site managed to get two introverts into happy union. I think that would look rather different for more social butterflies.
People with desirable traits for pairing up do so more frequently than those who lack these traits. As individuals pair up, the average quality of the remaining unpaired pool declines.
So the dating pool for early 20 year olds might be 1 dud: 20 mediocre: 1 winner. By the time people hit 40 the dating pool is 500 duds: 5 mediocre: 1 winner.
I dont think this is accurately describing people and how they develop. You have many people that are fine partners but got stuck in toxic relationships. You have people that were great "matches" in their twenties but turned to become terribly self absorbed arseholes in their thirties and vice versa you have people who developed to become very decent. You have people that were fine but wanted to sleep aroung in their 20s and then became monogamous and people who did the opposite.
Also you entirely ignore that as more people are permanently in relationships with increasing age that also means the "competition" reduces.
Finally this assume the observer to be somewhat static in their relation to other people being duds, mediocre or winner. But given your numbers they would become more likely to be duds or mediocre as they get single at higher age. Two "mediocre" can make a fine couple. And quite frankly, if the only people someone ever get to know are "duds" chance is he or she needs to work through some issues.
Of course it doesn't match the data. It is the just world fallacy. Failure occurs because a person is a failure and you know that because our world only allows just results. Success occurs because a person has merit and you know that because our world only allows just results.
Could be a million reasons why a person is single in their 30s? Nah only one.
How about you try reading what I wrote again. Apparently my simple analysis was too complex for you to understand.
A few basics for the logically and statistically impaired. This is a simple analysis of the probability of pairing up.
Having desirable traits for pairing up: I didn't mentioned what these were to for a very good reason. It doesn't matter to the analysis. What matters is the resulting rate of pairing up. Those that have traits desirable to pairing up are removed from the dating pool more quickly than those that don't.
This creates a constant strong selection pressure of removal on the pool.
I also used to terms to describe the potential relationship not the people. Because who or what these people are is immaterial.
Yeah so this type of narratives is why I am very very glad I am happily married. I don't rank humans, I don't think of humans in terms of what they can do for me only. I am also aware that a disturbing high degree of what we are is what situation we are in.
I make six-figures and I have been homeless. Generally your brain works worse as you get older so homeless me was smarter than uppermiddle class me. I know he was in a lot better shape physically and had a full set of hair.
I can make you a shitty person by giving you a foot injury. I can make you a loving person with women weed. And you know what? We are all shitty judges of character.
I was divorced at 36 and found a girlfriend 6 months later. It’s really not that bad out there. Just make sure you’re taking care of yourself and it makes it a lot easier.
Everybody says this. I heard this from older people about dating 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. This is just what people say as they get older regardless of how dating changes.
I dunno. There is statistics that show younger people to have less and less sex. And it certainly is not because of more prudeness nowadays. While not the final indicator i do think it to be representative of the general lack of stable relationships.
You make a great point. Also dating typically involves going out and that is expensive. I also think people are more honest today. They feel more comfortable not having to lie about it to seem cool. I think past data are skeptically full of some lies padding the data given the peer pressures of older generations behaviors.
Gotta say I'm glad we can be and date any genders we like these days with much milder pushback (on average) than used to be the case. Really does help zoomers be a lot healthier imo, even if we've got other issues in the internet age.
We got to live our teens and twenties without smartphones and social media - and it was so awesome.
You did something incredibly embarassing last weekend when you were drunk? No need to worry about photos or videos online and nobody would remember or care a few weeks later.
You date someone a few times and things don't match up? You move on, no need to worry about them stalking or badmouthing you online.
The world seemed to be on a course for the better and the dumbass populist movements were marginal in most countries. Future looked bright and it was easy to be carefree. We got to enjoy our youths.
There were no short or vertical videos. You had to read vast majority of the information available, which made you actually process the info. And someone had put in the effort to write the stuff coherently, because no-one would read the kind of crap that video bloggers are spewing out of their mouths.
By the time we started working, the economic situation was mostly stable and getting a loan for a house or an apartment was pretty much guaranteed.
And so much more. I count myself extremely lucky to have been born in the late 70's.
I have some good friends who were born in the 70s, and some born in the early 80s. I'm essentially the cusp. My friends who are only three or four years older went through high school never hiding a phone in a hoodie pocket to text their girlfriend. I got my first cell phone my junior year of high school. Facebook came out essentially contemporaneous with my acceptance to college. Social media then and cell phones then are absolutely not the same as the shit we have now. It was a freedom to communicate, and privacy was your choice. Now, privacy is up to whichever service you use, and most likely it doesn't exist. And it's odd because kids today seem to be okay with it.
Myspace and flip phones were fantastic. There were drawbacks, sure, but overall they allowed people to spread their wings and find like-minded individuals. Now, it seems like it's a funnel to nowhere.
Yeah, that ship has sailed, unfortunately. Pandora's box has opened and my phone and my income stream are pretty intertwined at this point. It's also how I Lemmy.
80s babies got most of that too except we were the leading edge of the housing and college jobs crisis. Graduated right into the dot com recession and then 2008 wiped the floor with a lot of us.
But I don't think the embarrassing history thing is as bad as you think it is. I think it's just become a red flag to judge your date based on things that were a while ago. The real terror is being stalked. It is way too easy to get stalked these days.
I met my wife in 2011, just before Tinder got big in our area. I remember our single friends being ecstatic when Tinder was first around, saying about how easy it was to meet people.
Many of them are still single and now well into their 30's. They talk a lot about wanting to find someone special, but they just swipe and swipe and swipe all day to no avail. Shit's bleak out there. And I just know that if I didn't meet my wife I'd probably be stuck in the same rut.
I’m on “the apps” as a nearly 40 year old. It is a nightmare for sure. With so many options little things or “not vibing” on the very first in-person interaction ends any chance at forming a relationship.
While this negative thinking about dating can def lead down or around the incel community, there are def many negative aspects of online dating becoming the norm that are def not ideal.
The online dating community seems so messed up. Doesn't it make sense to move away from that and seek out the people who aren't embedded in that app culture? The ones who are going to meetups and classes and activities to meet people in person the old fashioned way.
What does Genz dating look like that is different than how anyone else dates? I haven't done much dating lately. (Been in a relationship for 4 years or so and I'm not gen Z).
I assume it all goes the same. People in your direct area (work, school, hobbies). Then online dating stuff. Which once again I'm sure varies by preferences.
I'm Gen X. Online dating didn't really exist when I started dating my husband in 2000. I mean you could find local people via AOL Chat and maybe there were early versions of things like match.com, but for the most part you met people in meatspace. There wasn't social media the way we know it now so you couldn't do much online stalking.
The online component seems like it introduces a bunch of angst into dating. Due to gender imbalances on dating apps, it seems to become a numbers game for some. And from what I understand, a lot of the female profiles are bots. It also seems like it's common to check out a potential date's Instagram or other social media accounts, so rather than organically meeting a person, you're evaluating a profile, which probably doesn't give an accurate idea of who the person is. And it seems like young people live their lives increasingly online, so chance encounters in meatspace are rarer, plus it seems there's some reticence to chat up a stranger to see if it goes somewhere.
Dating apps are terrible because they don't want you to actually find a good partner. If you find a good partner, you have no need for the dating app anymore. So they'll match you with people that'll peak your interest, but ultimately won't work out.
Obviously there's more to it than just that, but this is a big part of the problem.
Almost everything is owned by the same company, match.com. So all the apps are built to extract as much cash as possible out of whatever demographic they're designed for. AFAIK the only one that isn't owned by them is bumble, because the woman who started bumble helped found tinder and was sexually harassed by one of her male co-founders. Imagine that.
I don't remember where this figure came from, so take it with a grain of salt, but I believe that something like 75% of all dating app accounts are dudes.
My afvice is to find a hobby that can be social and meet someone that likes doing what you do. I hear all the hotties are protesting inequality now...
I met my wife on one of the apps. For the life of me at this point I don't remember which one.
I had all but given up on the entire idea of online dating and was ready to delete my profiles. I had spent years, and embarrassingly some actual dollars on these apps, sent probably thousands of messages over the years and had a handful of first dates and little else to show for it.
I was the first person my wife connected with. Not that she hadn't dated before, just had never used an app to do it.
I had more luck meeting people on a penpal app than getting a single match on any of the major dating apps. The algorithm just always seems to sort me out. It can really mess with your self esteem when you're never getting a single match or reply to your messages.
It's definitely not me, because I get hundreds of letters on Slowly, where it's actually about communication and I'm even going on a vacation with a girl I met there next week.
Tinder & Co. are useless, objectifying apps that build on greed and should be burned to the ground.
My wife and I have been together for a decade. Before she and I met, I dated pretty heavily on the online options at the time. All of my worst dates ever were found online. I decided online dating was depressing and stupid, just stopped trying to date anyone, and started just meeting people in person. It was wildly more successful. I had fewer dates but they were way higher quality. No one showing up on shrooms, ghosting me, or acting scandalized because I'm a little guy despite it being outlined multiple times in my online profile.
Aside: The latter is my personal favorite. I'm a hair over 5'6 and proportionally built. I'm not just short, I'm small. One woman I met immediately accused me of being deceptive about my height, even though I was actually taller than claimed at around 5'7 with dress shoes on. She was also 5'6 but was standing a bit taller than me. She had forgotten she was wearing heels. That date ended quickly. Bullet dodged.
My sister is 5'3" and she had a thing for tall guys. After a string of bad dates, she decided to give someone a shot who was 5'2". Six years later they got married.
Nothing but respect for the short king with mad moves. My brother-in-law is cool as hell and I'm glad he's the guy my sister landed on.
My wife's best friend was complaining about how she goes on lots of dates but there's never a real connection. She is a little taller than average but insisted she needed a guy at least 6'2" (so he would be at least X" taller than her when she was wearing X" heels).
That's just a terrible priority if you want a real connection.
Because you want to have to tilt your head up at least 20° (?) to kiss while wearing high heels, you're willing to eliminate 95% of bachelors? Have you considered the logistics of kissing while you're not wearing high heels?
But the criterion was like a point of pride for her, like her ego wouldn't allow her to look for someone less than 6'2". Super weird. Just not a good way to find a partner.
My husband and I are the same height. Never understood the whole tall dude preference/requirement but people are into different things I guess.
A nice side perk is I can borrow his shirts and not be swimming in them. They're still baggy and comfortable from the different cut, but not so big the sleeves cover my hands.
I'm getting close to 40 and feel like I got left behind. It's rare that I even meet someone I would want to date let alone them want to date me as well. I don't have any interest in dating apps because they require too much information and putting pictures online so unless I happen to meet someone in real life I've just gotten comfortable being single.
I met my SO in... I think it was 2017? Well after the rise of Tinder. We did not meet on Tinder, and neither of us have ever had an account on there.
We met through a social group for a game (not dissimilar to pokemon go), where we happened to play for the same team in the same area. We would have team meet ups occasionally and all go for coffee and to play the game at locations where there was a lot of things to do in the game.
I have not, and likely will never, use something like Tinder. Not only is it unlikely that my current relationship would fail, but even if I found myself single for some reason, I just couldn't care less. I've been through it all already. A LOT of shit relationships to the point where I'm kind of over it. If I didn't have my current relationship, I'm not sure I'd care to get into another one. To put it simply, my partner and I are so well matched that we've never felt the need to even raise our voice at eachother. I have an amazing relationship, we're both happy and comfortable. The only thing left to do is put a ring on it and wait for our inevitable demise. I wouldn't try to find any cheap substitute for them. Nobody has a chance of measuring up. I don't think that would be fair to anyone involved.
I have no illusions. I was profoundly lucky. So I don't expect anyone to "get" it.
I am with them, and they are with me, now, until the end of our days. Separate, and together.
I'm 40 now (married and have a son). My younger family members in their late 20s are having such a hard time with dating that they're opting in for arranged marriage (which is common for Southeast Asians).
yeah. plenty of fish / ok cupid era I had a date every night for two weeks at one point met some great people, a few relationships, then met my wife "organically"
Tinder only worked for the 80% m4m hookup, occasional m4f at like festivals or big events.
Fuckin a man. Sometimes I'm envious of people still on the dating adventure, but I feel really sorry for my friends that are dating and dating and can't find mutual love. I've been married for over 20 years and I feel so fucking lucky.
I’m divorced and bottom part of GenX, but I’ve just been so busy building stuff I never went seriously looking for a partner afterwards. How bad is it out there… after I get management lined out on my current pet project I might want to start dating again.
If you are wealthy enough a lot of young people are in their "Daddy" phase of looking for older men they think have life figured out and are financially stable enough to fund their over expectant idea of what their lives should be like?
I don’t know if I could date a 20-year-old, she’s half my age. She’d have to be allowed to bring a friend to keep it fair.
But humor aside, I’m curious how people are actually meeting people. Everyone is so busy, and apps are motivated to keep you there and swiping. It looks like a bad deal.
I'm on the latter part of 30 and I'm in bumble and tinder. I decided to give myself a month on them and if nothing happens I'll remove it. I'm not exactly on the prowl but I feel like I've given myself enough time to "work on myself" since my last relationship. So I'm testing the water. Also all my friends are all hitched or have kids, so there isn't a lot of mutual single friends.
It's either, super model hot bot, or no thanks... There really isn't an in-between. I understand that sounds shallow, but that's been my experience. Then when you finally get matched no one actually makes conversation. Like I'm not going to sit here and try to drag a conversation out of you.
You're right too. The apps are also really only focused on just trying to get you to spend money, not getting you a match.
Tinder for example says I have 20+ "matches" but I can't see them unless I pay. And when I swipe it's not like any of those people are put up front. You only get 20 likes and none of them will be the people that have "matched" with you.
It's also not cheap either. It's like 20 dollars a month.
Bumble is even worse.
It's a stark contrast from how it was several years ago.
Feel kinda bad for the younger generations. At this point they can't even go to other countries to find a significant other because they'll just plague those other countries too with their degenerate social culture.
I miss the hunt of the "old days" but i'm glad i'm not mixed in with little miss "can't put her phone down to have a decent conversation".
The shit i pulled in my teens to land some girls would get me in trouble with security nowadays, the girls i met would come back for more.
I definitely won when it came to finding a significant other compared to the younger folk. But they mess it up themselves and blame the other for being just as incapable, one of you need to open their eyes and make a change or else you're all doomed.
Idk dating seems fine, much easier and safer through apps where people can easily be filtered and sorted based on compatibility rather than the rapey in person approaches where you don't know if someone is there to steal your wallet or entrap you into something.
"Don't meet at a place where you can get robbed"... hmm, big public spaces where an individual person lifting a pocketbook goes unnoticed are out, as are more private spaces where you can be held at gunpoint... so that leaves... where exactly?
On the other hand, it's much easier to miss red flags via a dating app than in person.
Also, Dating Via Algorithms(aka via apps) is hell. Women get bombarded with bad apples and men have to fight through bots and (s)camgirls, and then hope the algorithm on the site even shows you people you want to date.
Dunno Hinge works fine for me as a guy. Not many bots and no camgirls. But compared to my gf I have to like more while she can just sit back wait for likes to come in. It's true tho that the girls liking me match better with what I'm looking for compared to the guys my gf receives. It's not like super random or proportionally less attractive girls either.
What I really enjoy about it (so far) is that intentions are clear beforehand. I don't have to overthink a hookup convo in a bar with some random person who will most likely reject me anyway.
This. I realize as a woman it's easier for us when it comes to dating apps to just receive likes but the sheer volume of desperate people who will swipe right on literally every single woman can be annoying as they haven't read your profile.
But they can be filtered out rather easily with a good system unlike people approaching IRL. Harmlessly ignored or ghosted rather than painfully turned down in a scene in some sort of public place.
Yeah I feel you. It's defo some work to go through it haha. My gf unpauses her hinge for a minute and gets like 7 likes lol.
Facts. I feel like dating apps work great for people who struggle to approach strangers. The people I met with also struggled with this, but are actually super social individuals.
Same, nowadays I think approaching IRL is just too dangerous both because of neurotic people who will suspect ill intent automatically and people with said ill intent.
Bad apples exist irl too, but on apps I can filter them out easily. Back when I used dating apps was in the pre-swipe era with OKC and it was very evident from the profile what exactly we matched on and why and what we didn't match on.
Also dating apps are a complete privacy nightmare
And a waste of money
I paid $0 for the app I met my wife on.
Same.
It was MySpace.
Which app, and how long ago was it?
OkCupid for me and we've been together over 10 years now.
Yeah same meme then. OKC and every other dating site have gone so far down hill they're underwater at this point.
I was on OKC 10 years ago and I really liked it. I'm OKC now and my fucking god is it useless... It's tinder 2.0 along with every other dating site Match Group bought... Oh and it's like $50+ a month if you're crazy enough to pay.
I'm sure I'll still be on there in another 10 years when it's just swiping from live stream to live stream...
Yikes! I make sure to buy my wife flowers ASAP. I don't want to end up dating again.
Things have gotten a hell of a lot worse since then
Tinder 2020 for me, we get married in August.
Tinder 2016, the glory days. From what I hear, that shit is a cesspool now
Same :)
I paid a little bit and met my wife on one. No idea why anyone has a problem with paying for something they use. Two children later, I would say a lifetime the woman of my dreams made the few months that I paid for the tinder subscription was worth it. There were useful features then that came with it. No idea about it now.
You misspelled time.
For those of us still in Nam, kill me, please.
Dibs on thirdsies
Please kill me three, but before these two I'm impatient!
:P
Kill me fourth, but before these first three
Im trying to solve this like some sort of logic puzzle
Arent you the guy everyone says to touch
Now kith
I am sorry. If it makes you feel any better I only had one healthy long term relationship in my life, I dated plenty before I met my wife but yeah best not speak of it. So given my track record of like 20-1 if I became single again I am just going to call it.
Not just dating, I think gen x looks at everything that way at this point.
This 👆
They absolutely were and It's a little gross how much they just look from afar and go " Yeah, but our parents never loved us really."
Dude same and you aren't doing much better, and I will never own a house so fuck off.
As s genx I totally agree, seeing the problems so clearly then just saying 'I can't believe the boomers let this hsppen' while doing nothing about any of it is infuriating.
I think this is as much about early millenials as about late Gen X. Early Gen X are just worried they'll never get grandchildren at this point.
That's an incredibly accurate way of describing what looking at dating today feels like.
Tinder and the other apps are pretty bad. Partly because they want to make money, not matches.
But also partly because the users suck at using them. People are like "I want interesting conversation" but reply with nothing but "lol". Come in my dude put some work in.
A lot of profiles on these sites are entirely fake or bot-operated, to boost the impression that you're getting matches. Some profiles are run by data miners who swipe match on everyone just to get the additional data that comes with a match. Others are run by businesses that are using the profiles for promotion.
Slapping "I want interesting conversation" in the profile is a great way to bait engagement, but more often than not there's no dating prospect on the other side of the profile. This isn't a string of incredibly vapid women you're running into, its dummy accounts and scams.
Somehow I hadn't even considered fake profiles. I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse about the situation.
My coworker told me that even restaurants will post "profiles", get matches and set up first dates at their establishments. The person will obviously get stood up, but they are more likely to spend money in the establishment since they're already there. Like maybe a drink or 2.
Now that's evil.
As someone who has been stood up consecutively 16 times. What a monsterous way to acquire business
Better about your future potential dating pool but worse about the tech industry is where I went with it.
There's a cute little audiobook I listened to recently, called "The Verifiers" which was written by a person who worked professionally in the dating app industry and turned her experience into a thriller novel. Definitely made me feel better about getting the run around, since this is apparently the professional standard and not just me being uniquely stupid.
yup if any dating service needs you to pay a subscription instead of a one time payment and it helps you until you succeed, they have an active incentive to keep you as a customer as long as possible and guess what makes you stop being a customer.
Weirdly, none of them really focus on the non-monogamous market. There's a section of likely long term users.
I'm not someone remotely into that market, but my understanding is there isn't a huge demand for this outside the Ashley Madison type who are cheating. The various cliques have their own methods of finding each other and generally aren't interested in broadcasting that to a wider market.
A lot of the polyamorous people I know are on the apps or have tried them, but aren't happy with them. Partly because the apps generally aren't good, and partly because you end up with a lot of wasted "your desired relationship structure isn't what I want" matches.
OkCupid has some support for it, but that app hasn't been good or interesting in years. Tinder lets you pick your relationship type, but you can't like filter by it. Soneone threatened to "report me" on Hinge (I think?) for wanting a non monogamous relationship. Maybe they thought relationship anarchy was something dangerous.
This might be different outside of NYC, where I am.
Dating outside of a major city is incredibly hard, and being non-mono makes it even harder.
At older age ranges the ENM users are definitely more noticeable on the dating apps.
Oh God yes.
Look me and my wife met on a dating site. No shame in this. We both had pretty detailed profiles with lots of photos and luckily for us we were living fairly close by in the same stages in life. Our first date we both kinda knew what we were about. At the same time neither of us had real social media accounts so yeah no weird stalking games.
Now, me and her dated for three years until we moved in together. That was enough time. Time to see each other as people, warts and all. We have our share of embarrassing memories. I remember the time she got wasted and threw up BBQ squid and wine on me on the train. She remembers the time my card got declined at dinner. We had seen each other frustrated, failing at something, ill, broke, in the morning, drunk, out of work, and all the other downs real humans have. Both of us decided we were okay with that and well we are still together today.
Now I see the black mirror like horrorshow that is tinder from my younger friends and hear them say things how they consider it sus if you aren't on Instagram. I see them acting like a date is a job interview. Gameification and weird cryptic terms like "high value". Long lists of must haves and must nots.
Mother of fuck how and why would anyone want this? I felt like we had it pretty well figured out when in my early 20s. You could meet someone the traditional way or you could use a dating site and find someone who has the same fun hobbies as you. Oh they aren't exactly who you normally date? Ok. See what happens.
Oh man have you seen that ad that is all about how it's a dating site only for "high value" people called like Elite Singles or some bullshit.
Literally they make it seem everyone is literally some Sherlock type when most people that think they are, are much more likely Lastrade except hyping crypto more.
I think everyone is just looking for a way to pretend harder that nothing is wrong and if they grind their face against the wheel a little harder they will be finally able to be good enough off to not think about it all. It seems miserable.
"High value" is also a term used in the FemaleDatingStrategy community, which is a community of women who advocate for traditional chivalry, abstinence until commitment, and strongly opposes BDSM under the belief that it's essentially abuse.
I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the emptymology of the common usage of the term.
I think I will tell my wife right now how much I love her.
They're flipping the Pickup Artist concepts on men, so that particular concept long predates app based dating and the FDS community. "High Value" is definitely a specific phrase used in discussing attracting women over 20 years ago.
Good to know!
Haven't seen it. I do remember when I heard about Raya wanting to bury the human race in a pit of acid however.
Same with my wife and I who met online a couple of years back. Even back then, lots of other men would complain about having a hard time getting matches, being poorly treated on dates, etc. which did happen to me, but just as often I'd make a promising connection.
I think part of the reason I was relatively successful despite not being terribly attractive is I treated online dating a bit like online shopping, whereas I think others treat it like a virtual version of bumping in to someone at a bar.
To give you an example of a profile I might skip:
First prompt tells me nothing about you besides you're easy going. That's a great opportunity to share something you like doing, squandered.
Second prompt is the same likes that everybody writes in their profile, and doesn't lead to naturally staring a unique conversation. Everybody likes "travel and food" so, "Where have you travelled," and, "What's your favourite food," are well-trodden and tired topics IMO. Either share something specific about food or travel, or mention something else entirely.
Third prompt takes another opportunity to save us both some time by stating an actual deal breaker, squandered into a cliche joke.
A better version of that profile could be (just winging it off the top of my head):
First prompt tells me that you like biking which could be a conversation breaker about which trails you like, what type of bike you ride, and we could also talk about that croissant place, or our other favourite desserts.
Second prompt is useful as someone approaching dating you, and could be a deal breaker for potential suitors.
Third prompt states a real deal breaker which could save us both time, and it's not something (religion, political affiliation, hair colour) which is usually covered in the profile and filterable in your preferences, or in photos.
In my opinion, there were a lot more of the former type of profiles, but I found it easier to break the ice and connect with the latter type of profile. The former profile is fine if you're both just looking for a hook up and the prompts are secondary to the eye candy, but if you're looking for a long lasting connection, it's all about the prompts.
My question to those who are dating just a couple of years later: how have things changed?
Little to do with your point, but I think it's worth mentioning here.
I read this whole thing about how it's absolutely nothing like bumping into someone in a bar which is part of why it's so bad.
The jist of it is that in a bar, your options are limited. So even if someone doesn't visually meet your ideal, you often get over the hump quickly and get to know them as a person which might all of a sudden make them attractive to you.
On an app, if they don't meet your visual ideal, the next candidate is just a figurative swipe left and so there is zero chance to get over that hump.
Plus, in an app, you don't see the group of people surrounding the most attractive options, whether they are trying to filter through them or have fun with each one they like.
Also, you can lower your tolerance of the less fun stuff because it feels like there's always more options available. Like someone but they aren't available on a free day you have? Someone else might be available on that day, so just pivot to them. Or try both at once, or keep the other on the backburner, only to discover they could read the sudden adjusted level of interest and aren't as keen themselves anymore.
It happened once to me in RL. I met one girl at a bar one night, hit it off with her well. Then, that same week, she wasn't able to come to another bar I was going to and I started out wingmanning for a friend by talking to the friend of someone he was interested in so he could talk to her and ended up going home with that friend. I couldn't handle having two girls being interested and ended up screwing it up with both. But that's what it almost always feels like with online dating, and I bet it's even worse for women who get way more matches.
And on top of that, I know that Tinder makes more money if someone wants to find a partner but fails to. I know they have incentive to hire people (or bots) to match, chat for a bit, then flake out. Or independent scammers looking to chat and take money. I have a paid sub and had what seemed like a great match right as renewal was coming up, then she flaked before a date could happen. Who knows if she was real or not, she could have been but at this point it's hard to get excited about meeting anyone, which makes it harder to engage genuinely, and I hardly feel anything even when I do match with someone that I think I'd really like.
I'm glad I'm generally content being single or this would be pretty depressing.
The data says mostly through dating apps, for one, which seems so impersonal and frustrating from the outside.
I don't get all the hate dating apps get. I met my wife on bumble, so maybe I'm biased. But still, it seems significantly better than the methods previous generations had (blind dating, speed dating, getting introduced to random friends that might happen to have something in common).
What's the alternative? You just happen to get lucky enough to meet someone in your daily life that's a good fit? One of the advantages of dating apps is that you get introduced to a much larger pool of potential partners than you otherwise would, which makes it significantly easier to filter out the wheat from the chaff and find a good fit.
I think part of the problem is dating apps keep getting worse and worse as they try to squeeze as much profit out of their users as possible. Tinder just came out with a $500/month tier
Pretty much this. I remember OG OkCupid and it was rad. It was a site ran by data nerds who wanted to help nerds find each other, and they wrote pretty frequent blog posts about their findings and how they were changing things up all for like ~$15 a month. All that started eroding until they got bought out by Match and its a cesspool of microtransactions now.
Dating apps are designed to keep you on them. They cant make money of you use them for a few months and then delete it.
Young people are actually using social media platforms like Instagram and Snapchat to date. People you sorta knew in high school or college, share some mutual interests, and then hang out from there and see what happens.
I mean, that’s what every single one of your ancestors did since the beginning of mankind
Not really. Humans live very differently today than they did throughout the past several millions of years. Cities and 9-5's were not the norm until relatively recently. Unless you have a group you hang out with where you constantly meet new people it can be very different to find a partner in modern society without some form of dating.
Sometimes I forget cities were just recently invented in the 2010s
That's funny. Obviously cities go back thousands of years, but I don't think it was the norm for the majority of humans to live in them until the last several hundred years or less. But in general, I do believe humans have fewer group social activities than we used to, and therefore fewer opportunities to meet new people.
There's a cultural aspect to this too. I know in China it's common for parents to be matchmakers and find other parents that have single kids for them to go on dates with. And historically in India arranged marriage has been common. So I'm probably looking at this from a western lens. But still, as far as dating goes online dating seems to be the modern evolution of it. And in my opinion an improvement.
Well if you were in a rural area you would just trade like 2 goats for a dowry. Times were much more simple back then.
The idea of meeting people online seemed so exciting back in the 90's and 00's. How ever did it go so wrong?
Paid apps is where it went wrong. It stopped being something that happened organically and became a gamified P2W experience that catered to narcissists.
And the narcissistic aggressive assholes made it 1000x worse for everyone else...
So many "upgrades" were made to "protect" people but all that really amounted to was: people won't see your messages unless they already like you (so no introducing yourself). Message limits so you can only send one new message a day, so for us guys who get ignored 99.9999999999% of the time we're now stuck on the site 10000x longer. No browsing method, only swiping so people "disappear" once you've made a decision in that moment. Etc etc...
Now sites like plenty of fish have fucking live steaming .... Talk about narcissists... They even have messages like "not looking, only here to stream." They're just milking the desperate guys who throw money at them for validation or whatever...
Dating, especially as a 30+ in 2024 is disgustingly depressing...
i don't know about the exact point/year, but probably when it went from meeting someone online to the only thing that matters being exterior looks
There have always been people who only care about looks. That's never changed.
Turns out everyone else online in the 90s and 00s got to meet Chris Hansen.
I'm sure those who are still dating do now, but dating apps didn't really start becoming popular until the mid 2010s, and millennials were well into their 20s already. Lots were able to take that last chopper out.
Shared interests have pretty much moved online, free/cheap places for physical meetups are disappearing, and in a car-dependent world you’re not gonna meet someone randomly in-between your planned out destinations.
I mean it seems the same as it ever was to me, newly single younger Millennial here and I’m seeing a Gen Z woman.
Seems the biggest change in the last 4ish years is there are a lot more ethical Non-monogamy people, but I’m wondering if that’s just a youth culture thing.
The woman I’ve been seeing says that she is ENM, but all her actions indicate otherwise to me. Which I don’t mind, Im not really non-monogamous, just pretty open and flexible with things. Also below age 25-30 have a lot more “doesn’t want kids” vibes going on
It was more late 00s. I met my wife on OkC in 2008, and Match and it had been around for awhile at that point. It was still something vaguely embarrassing, and people didn't usually talk about using those.
The apps hadn't been so thoroughly ruined by Match Group yet. OKCupid used to publish interesting detailed reports about dating habits. Plenty of Fish wasn't full of bots and scammers. The apps that charged you for basic features were largely avoided. The experience was weird and new.
The dating app landscape as it is now is basically just whichever is the latest one until Match acquires it.
No, we just kinda stumbled into each other in social situations and went from there.
Probably not a coincidence the app doesn't work out. They earn money as long as people stay on the app, so you finding a long term partner is bad for their business, so they want you to keep dating.
Those of us who are right on the cusp (let's say 95-99) all use the apps but end up finding partners irl instead anyway. Either that or not at all. Just not on the apps.
I met a couple girls on IRC lol
I started dating my partner before Tinder existed and when I watch my friends play Tinder it looks like such a depressing nightmare. It’s like… got microtransactions and shit. Wondering when they’re adding a battlepass.
Makes for a good dick menu, but for actual relationships it makes me sooooo happy I’ve found my eternal person before all of this shit existed.
This has been our plan all along.
We're used to it.
Obligatory...
Gen x is not considered, as they are the middle child of generations.
Shh
You're like the butt of UDP joke.
Many millennials developed relationships / got married before dating apps really blew up. Plus, the cultural pressures of today make being single look very different from when I was.
They did and still do. Anybody dating today regardless of their age is likely to try a dating app at least for a bit. Don't buy into this generational division.
I met my (now) wife in college in 2002. Never touched a dating app
Same, but 2012
It was more of a "dating site" situation, compared to a "dating app" one.
The dating sites generally showed at least something of a profile at the same time as the picture(s), so it wasn't 100% based on looks.
Grindr, growlr, and scruff were good for one thing, and (basically) everyone on them knew what the deal was.
I got 2 bots that wanted me to pay a Instahoe. No humans around.
I'm old enough to be in this relationship for nearly 20 years. It started on a dating site, in the early 2000's Internet and that site managed to get two introverts into happy union. I think that would look rather different for more social butterflies.
I watch single millennial friends dating at it looks fucking miserable.
Very lucky to be hitched
I have a friend who is recently divorced.
Don't get me wrong, they're both better off, but it's bleak out there for singles.
It's an age thing.
People with desirable traits for pairing up do so more frequently than those who lack these traits. As individuals pair up, the average quality of the remaining unpaired pool declines.
So the dating pool for early 20 year olds might be 1 dud: 20 mediocre: 1 winner. By the time people hit 40 the dating pool is 500 duds: 5 mediocre: 1 winner.
I dont think this is accurately describing people and how they develop. You have many people that are fine partners but got stuck in toxic relationships. You have people that were great "matches" in their twenties but turned to become terribly self absorbed arseholes in their thirties and vice versa you have people who developed to become very decent. You have people that were fine but wanted to sleep aroung in their 20s and then became monogamous and people who did the opposite.
Also you entirely ignore that as more people are permanently in relationships with increasing age that also means the "competition" reduces.
Finally this assume the observer to be somewhat static in their relation to other people being duds, mediocre or winner. But given your numbers they would become more likely to be duds or mediocre as they get single at higher age. Two "mediocre" can make a fine couple. And quite frankly, if the only people someone ever get to know are "duds" chance is he or she needs to work through some issues.
Of course it doesn't match the data. It is the just world fallacy. Failure occurs because a person is a failure and you know that because our world only allows just results. Success occurs because a person has merit and you know that because our world only allows just results.
Could be a million reasons why a person is single in their 30s? Nah only one.
How about you try reading what I wrote again. Apparently my simple analysis was too complex for you to understand.
A few basics for the logically and statistically impaired. This is a simple analysis of the probability of pairing up.
Having desirable traits for pairing up: I didn't mentioned what these were to for a very good reason. It doesn't matter to the analysis. What matters is the resulting rate of pairing up. Those that have traits desirable to pairing up are removed from the dating pool more quickly than those that don't.
This creates a constant strong selection pressure of removal on the pool.
I also used to terms to describe the potential relationship not the people. Because who or what these people are is immaterial.
Dud = no chance of pairing up.
Mediocre = moderate chance of paring up.
Winner = pairing up.
Seriously....
Yeah so this type of narratives is why I am very very glad I am happily married. I don't rank humans, I don't think of humans in terms of what they can do for me only. I am also aware that a disturbing high degree of what we are is what situation we are in.
I make six-figures and I have been homeless. Generally your brain works worse as you get older so homeless me was smarter than uppermiddle class me. I know he was in a lot better shape physically and had a full set of hair.
I can make you a shitty person by giving you a foot injury. I can make you a loving person with women weed. And you know what? We are all shitty judges of character.
I was divorced at 36 and found a girlfriend 6 months later. It’s really not that bad out there. Just make sure you’re taking care of yourself and it makes it a lot easier.
Everybody says this. I heard this from older people about dating 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. This is just what people say as they get older regardless of how dating changes.
Yeah, see if I had to start dating again, I wouldn't date Gen Z. Problem solved.
I dunno. There is statistics that show younger people to have less and less sex. And it certainly is not because of more prudeness nowadays. While not the final indicator i do think it to be representative of the general lack of stable relationships.
Younger people not having homes to rent might be a large contributor.
Taking someone home to your room in your parents house has never been a "player move".
You make a great point. Also dating typically involves going out and that is expensive. I also think people are more honest today. They feel more comfortable not having to lie about it to seem cool. I think past data are skeptically full of some lies padding the data given the peer pressures of older generations behaviors.
Gotta say I'm glad we can be and date any genders we like these days with much milder pushback (on average) than used to be the case. Really does help zoomers be a lot healthier imo, even if we've got other issues in the internet age.
But.... pushback is the whole reason you go on a date....
Hmm... usually I prefer push-in 😇
Sounds like somebody’s jelly when they should be more like jello
Yep, dating sucks no matter what era you're in.
*slowly puts away his picnic basket and bicycle made for two
daisy... daisy...
This, definitely.
We got to live our teens and twenties without smartphones and social media - and it was so awesome.
You did something incredibly embarassing last weekend when you were drunk? No need to worry about photos or videos online and nobody would remember or care a few weeks later.
You date someone a few times and things don't match up? You move on, no need to worry about them stalking or badmouthing you online.
The world seemed to be on a course for the better and the dumbass populist movements were marginal in most countries. Future looked bright and it was easy to be carefree. We got to enjoy our youths.
There were no short or vertical videos. You had to read vast majority of the information available, which made you actually process the info. And someone had put in the effort to write the stuff coherently, because no-one would read the kind of crap that video bloggers are spewing out of their mouths.
By the time we started working, the economic situation was mostly stable and getting a loan for a house or an apartment was pretty much guaranteed.
And so much more. I count myself extremely lucky to have been born in the late 70's.
I have some good friends who were born in the 70s, and some born in the early 80s. I'm essentially the cusp. My friends who are only three or four years older went through high school never hiding a phone in a hoodie pocket to text their girlfriend. I got my first cell phone my junior year of high school. Facebook came out essentially contemporaneous with my acceptance to college. Social media then and cell phones then are absolutely not the same as the shit we have now. It was a freedom to communicate, and privacy was your choice. Now, privacy is up to whichever service you use, and most likely it doesn't exist. And it's odd because kids today seem to be okay with it.
Myspace and flip phones were fantastic. There were drawbacks, sure, but overall they allowed people to spread their wings and find like-minded individuals. Now, it seems like it's a funnel to nowhere.
You can still get flip phones. Caterpillar makes one that looks decent and AFAIK does 5g
Yeah, that ship has sailed, unfortunately. Pandora's box has opened and my phone and my income stream are pretty intertwined at this point. It's also how I Lemmy.
https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s22-flip/
It's Android!
80s babies got most of that too except we were the leading edge of the housing and college jobs crisis. Graduated right into the dot com recession and then 2008 wiped the floor with a lot of us.
But I don't think the embarrassing history thing is as bad as you think it is. I think it's just become a red flag to judge your date based on things that were a while ago. The real terror is being stalked. It is way too easy to get stalked these days.
I'm sorry that happened.
I am in my early 40s. Stalking and badmouthing was defintly a problem before social media as well.
I am male and still have that experience. Was much worse for women/girls.
Yeeeah, I found myself single again after a divorce, and I have not even tried to date seriously after seeing what's currently on the market.
Folks out here thinking that dating is a replacement for some much-needed therapy.
If you only have first dates you never need to move past identifying your problems. No work needed to push through them. Check Mate psychos!
No need for self-improvement if you decide that issue lies with everyone else! ♡
I met my wife in 2011, just before Tinder got big in our area. I remember our single friends being ecstatic when Tinder was first around, saying about how easy it was to meet people.
Many of them are still single and now well into their 30's. They talk a lot about wanting to find someone special, but they just swipe and swipe and swipe all day to no avail. Shit's bleak out there. And I just know that if I didn't meet my wife I'd probably be stuck in the same rut.
I’m on “the apps” as a nearly 40 year old. It is a nightmare for sure. With so many options little things or “not vibing” on the very first in-person interaction ends any chance at forming a relationship.
While this negative thinking about dating can def lead down or around the incel community, there are def many negative aspects of online dating becoming the norm that are def not ideal.
The online dating community seems so messed up. Doesn't it make sense to move away from that and seek out the people who aren't embedded in that app culture? The ones who are going to meetups and classes and activities to meet people in person the old fashioned way.
Def not a bad way to do it. One meetup group I am in is mostly run by a power couple who met in the group years ago.
Preach. I'm a 45 year old living it now. It's odd.
Holy shit this is so accurate.
What does Genz dating look like that is different than how anyone else dates? I haven't done much dating lately. (Been in a relationship for 4 years or so and I'm not gen Z).
I assume it all goes the same. People in your direct area (work, school, hobbies). Then online dating stuff. Which once again I'm sure varies by preferences.
I'm Gen X. Online dating didn't really exist when I started dating my husband in 2000. I mean you could find local people via AOL Chat and maybe there were early versions of things like match.com, but for the most part you met people in meatspace. There wasn't social media the way we know it now so you couldn't do much online stalking.
The online component seems like it introduces a bunch of angst into dating. Due to gender imbalances on dating apps, it seems to become a numbers game for some. And from what I understand, a lot of the female profiles are bots. It also seems like it's common to check out a potential date's Instagram or other social media accounts, so rather than organically meeting a person, you're evaluating a profile, which probably doesn't give an accurate idea of who the person is. And it seems like young people live their lives increasingly online, so chance encounters in meatspace are rarer, plus it seems there's some reticence to chat up a stranger to see if it goes somewhere.
It looks like a massive headache.
When the woman expects the man to make $500k/yr. And spend about $300+ daily on said woman.
Wtf are you talking about
They've never met a woman irl before.
Yeah.. except I'm married. Good luck with the trash we know as the dating pool.
Yup, all women are trash except for your wife, sure thing pal
Ah.. okay. I see. You read my comment and your brain did that one thing that crazy people do.
Have a good day, bud.
If you don't know what I'm talking about... well there's no hope for you then.
Dating apps are terrible because they don't want you to actually find a good partner. If you find a good partner, you have no need for the dating app anymore. So they'll match you with people that'll peak your interest, but ultimately won't work out.
Obviously there's more to it than just that, but this is a big part of the problem.
Almost everything is owned by the same company, match.com. So all the apps are built to extract as much cash as possible out of whatever demographic they're designed for. AFAIK the only one that isn't owned by them is bumble, because the woman who started bumble helped found tinder and was sexually harassed by one of her male co-founders. Imagine that.
I don't remember where this figure came from, so take it with a grain of salt, but I believe that something like 75% of all dating app accounts are dudes.
My afvice is to find a hobby that can be social and meet someone that likes doing what you do. I hear all the hotties are protesting inequality now...
I met my wife on one of the apps. For the life of me at this point I don't remember which one.
I had all but given up on the entire idea of online dating and was ready to delete my profiles. I had spent years, and embarrassingly some actual dollars on these apps, sent probably thousands of messages over the years and had a handful of first dates and little else to show for it.
I was the first person my wife connected with. Not that she hadn't dated before, just had never used an app to do it.
What a lucky coincidence. :3 Maybe not immediately, in your case, but I'm glad you found each other!
I had more luck meeting people on a penpal app than getting a single match on any of the major dating apps. The algorithm just always seems to sort me out. It can really mess with your self esteem when you're never getting a single match or reply to your messages.
It's definitely not me, because I get hundreds of letters on Slowly, where it's actually about communication and I'm even going on a vacation with a girl I met there next week.
Tinder & Co. are useless, objectifying apps that build on greed and should be burned to the ground.
That sounds nice. What's the name of the pen pal app?
Slowly!
What's. The. Name. Of. The. Pen. Pal. App.
I'll see myself out.(Also many thanks ☺️)
My wife and I have been together for a decade. Before she and I met, I dated pretty heavily on the online options at the time. All of my worst dates ever were found online. I decided online dating was depressing and stupid, just stopped trying to date anyone, and started just meeting people in person. It was wildly more successful. I had fewer dates but they were way higher quality. No one showing up on shrooms, ghosting me, or acting scandalized because I'm a little guy despite it being outlined multiple times in my online profile.
Aside: The latter is my personal favorite. I'm a hair over 5'6 and proportionally built. I'm not just short, I'm small. One woman I met immediately accused me of being deceptive about my height, even though I was actually taller than claimed at around 5'7 with dress shoes on. She was also 5'6 but was standing a bit taller than me. She had forgotten she was wearing heels. That date ended quickly. Bullet dodged.
My sister is 5'3" and she had a thing for tall guys. After a string of bad dates, she decided to give someone a shot who was 5'2". Six years later they got married.
Nothing but respect for the short king with mad moves. My brother-in-law is cool as hell and I'm glad he's the guy my sister landed on.
Height is such a bad thing to filter based on.
My wife's best friend was complaining about how she goes on lots of dates but there's never a real connection. She is a little taller than average but insisted she needed a guy at least 6'2" (so he would be at least X" taller than her when she was wearing X" heels).
That's just a terrible priority if you want a real connection.
Because you want to have to tilt your head up at least 20° (?) to kiss while wearing high heels, you're willing to eliminate 95% of bachelors? Have you considered the logistics of kissing while you're not wearing high heels?
But the criterion was like a point of pride for her, like her ego wouldn't allow her to look for someone less than 6'2". Super weird. Just not a good way to find a partner.
My husband and I are the same height. Never understood the whole tall dude preference/requirement but people are into different things I guess. A nice side perk is I can borrow his shirts and not be swimming in them. They're still baggy and comfortable from the different cut, but not so big the sleeves cover my hands.
I'm getting close to 40 and feel like I got left behind. It's rare that I even meet someone I would want to date let alone them want to date me as well. I don't have any interest in dating apps because they require too much information and putting pictures online so unless I happen to meet someone in real life I've just gotten comfortable being single.
It can work out. I met my wife on a dating site when I was 38. Happily married over 15 years now.
You do have to be careful though; you can meet all sorts of weirdos on the internet. She'd agree with that.
That's great but I'm not putting pictures or details about myself online. That's a hard no.
At least I know there are other people who will know what it's like when I get to that stage
I met my SO in... I think it was 2017? Well after the rise of Tinder. We did not meet on Tinder, and neither of us have ever had an account on there.
We met through a social group for a game (not dissimilar to pokemon go), where we happened to play for the same team in the same area. We would have team meet ups occasionally and all go for coffee and to play the game at locations where there was a lot of things to do in the game.
I have not, and likely will never, use something like Tinder. Not only is it unlikely that my current relationship would fail, but even if I found myself single for some reason, I just couldn't care less. I've been through it all already. A LOT of shit relationships to the point where I'm kind of over it. If I didn't have my current relationship, I'm not sure I'd care to get into another one. To put it simply, my partner and I are so well matched that we've never felt the need to even raise our voice at eachother. I have an amazing relationship, we're both happy and comfortable. The only thing left to do is put a ring on it and wait for our inevitable demise. I wouldn't try to find any cheap substitute for them. Nobody has a chance of measuring up. I don't think that would be fair to anyone involved.
I have no illusions. I was profoundly lucky. So I don't expect anyone to "get" it.
I am with them, and they are with me, now, until the end of our days. Separate, and together.
Was it ingress? If so you bastards better not be team blue.
This guy's with The Enlightened, rattle him boys!
Blue sucks.
Frog or foe?
Ribbit.
fortunate son intensifies
I do thank the stars I didn’t have to try the dating app scene. It seems soul crushing from the outside
Ab so lutely
Found Tim Heidecker's dad's account
I'm 40 now (married and have a son). My younger family members in their late 20s are having such a hard time with dating that they're opting in for arranged marriage (which is common for Southeast Asians).
yeah. plenty of fish / ok cupid era I had a date every night for two weeks at one point met some great people, a few relationships, then met my wife "organically"
Tinder only worked for the 80% m4m hookup, occasional m4f at like festivals or big events.
Noted, I need to be more flexible
Fuckin a man. Sometimes I'm envious of people still on the dating adventure, but I feel really sorry for my friends that are dating and dating and can't find mutual love. I've been married for over 20 years and I feel so fucking lucky.
Love that you did not capitalize the A in the first phrase. Leaves room for interpretation.
I’m divorced and bottom part of GenX, but I’ve just been so busy building stuff I never went seriously looking for a partner afterwards. How bad is it out there… after I get management lined out on my current pet project I might want to start dating again.
Unless you were planning on trying to date 20 year olds, you’ll probably be just fine.
…go on, you mentioned 20 year olds?
If you are wealthy enough a lot of young people are in their "Daddy" phase of looking for older men they think have life figured out and are financially stable enough to fund their over expectant idea of what their lives should be like?
So you know.... Got that going for you.
Which is nice.
You’re cooked lol
I don’t know if I could date a 20-year-old, she’s half my age. She’d have to be allowed to bring a friend to keep it fair.
But humor aside, I’m curious how people are actually meeting people. Everyone is so busy, and apps are motivated to keep you there and swiping. It looks like a bad deal.
I'm on the latter part of 30 and I'm in bumble and tinder. I decided to give myself a month on them and if nothing happens I'll remove it. I'm not exactly on the prowl but I feel like I've given myself enough time to "work on myself" since my last relationship. So I'm testing the water. Also all my friends are all hitched or have kids, so there isn't a lot of mutual single friends.
It's either, super model hot bot, or no thanks... There really isn't an in-between. I understand that sounds shallow, but that's been my experience. Then when you finally get matched no one actually makes conversation. Like I'm not going to sit here and try to drag a conversation out of you.
You're right too. The apps are also really only focused on just trying to get you to spend money, not getting you a match.
Tinder for example says I have 20+ "matches" but I can't see them unless I pay. And when I swipe it's not like any of those people are put up front. You only get 20 likes and none of them will be the people that have "matched" with you.
It's also not cheap either. It's like 20 dollars a month.
Bumble is even worse.
It's a stark contrast from how it was several years ago.
How bad is it out there?
Hmm well on the bright side if you are a Buddhist or a Catholic you might consider a life of voluntary celebacy. Just throwing out options
I've seen too many horror stories about dating today
Feel kinda bad for the younger generations. At this point they can't even go to other countries to find a significant other because they'll just plague those other countries too with their degenerate social culture.
I guess in this analogy I'd be a conscientious objector
I felt like I had already missed that chopper until I met my current gf earlier that year
Absolutely lol
I just asked this to my wife and she said "I mean yes, the answer is yes"
Uhhh, no?
I miss the hunt of the "old days" but i'm glad i'm not mixed in with little miss "can't put her phone down to have a decent conversation".
The shit i pulled in my teens to land some girls would get me in trouble with security nowadays, the girls i met would come back for more.
I definitely won when it came to finding a significant other compared to the younger folk. But they mess it up themselves and blame the other for being just as incapable, one of you need to open their eyes and make a change or else you're all doomed.
No. Marriage is a failure. Glad to see people turning their backs on that bullshit.
Idk dating seems fine, much easier and safer through apps where people can easily be filtered and sorted based on compatibility rather than the rapey in person approaches where you don't know if someone is there to steal your wallet or entrap you into something.
I don't see how the app will protect you if someone lies on there to meet someone and then rob them
Much easier to spot bullshit on an app. Duh obviously don't meet at a place where you can get robbed either.
Yes of course easier to spot BS when you are limited to only what that person wants you to see through a predefined interface.
Sure maybe if you're older and fall for fake news just because you believe everything you read on Facebook, but it doesn't take much to spot baloney
"Don't meet at a place where you can get robbed"... hmm, big public spaces where an individual person lifting a pocketbook goes unnoticed are out, as are more private spaces where you can be held at gunpoint... so that leaves... where exactly?
City centre? Hands on pockets and bags at all times, keep to the wall and observe the crowd, be mindful of exits, all the usual stuff?
On the other hand, it's much easier to miss red flags via a dating app than in person.
Also, Dating Via Algorithms(aka via apps) is hell. Women get bombarded with bad apples and men have to fight through bots and (s)camgirls, and then hope the algorithm on the site even shows you people you want to date.
Dunno Hinge works fine for me as a guy. Not many bots and no camgirls. But compared to my gf I have to like more while she can just sit back wait for likes to come in. It's true tho that the girls liking me match better with what I'm looking for compared to the guys my gf receives. It's not like super random or proportionally less attractive girls either.
What I really enjoy about it (so far) is that intentions are clear beforehand. I don't have to overthink a hookup convo in a bar with some random person who will most likely reject me anyway.
This. I realize as a woman it's easier for us when it comes to dating apps to just receive likes but the sheer volume of desperate people who will swipe right on literally every single woman can be annoying as they haven't read your profile.
But they can be filtered out rather easily with a good system unlike people approaching IRL. Harmlessly ignored or ghosted rather than painfully turned down in a scene in some sort of public place.
Yeah I feel you. It's defo some work to go through it haha. My gf unpauses her hinge for a minute and gets like 7 likes lol.
Facts. I feel like dating apps work great for people who struggle to approach strangers. The people I met with also struggled with this, but are actually super social individuals.
Same, nowadays I think approaching IRL is just too dangerous both because of neurotic people who will suspect ill intent automatically and people with said ill intent.
Does eHarmony still exist? That seemed promising back in the day.
Bad apples exist irl too, but on apps I can filter them out easily. Back when I used dating apps was in the pre-swipe era with OKC and it was very evident from the profile what exactly we matched on and why and what we didn't match on.