Linux is still not ready to replace Windows
Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.
Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)
Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.
Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.
While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.
I'm someone who grew up on Windows but switched to Linux and holy shit was it so much nicer. I don't know if Windows massively improved or if people are just incapable of comparing something new with something they already know. Because Windows is hard.
99/100 basic users need someone to unfuck their windows install after what, one, two years?
Every time you need to do something non standard you're basically going from training wheels to "good luck, deputy sysadmin."
Broken registry. Orphaned cruft.
Malware, spyware.
Maybe 10-12 years ago. I have provided friends and family with tech support for a long time (20+ years) and I’d say I haven’t had any relatives call me for support in 5 years.
It’s part user education, but mostly that the OS is generally so stable and solid that it isn’t necessary anymore.
I personally have two desktops, one windows and one Ubuntu. I use them both equally and have more issues with Ubuntu acting randomly funky than Windows 11.
That's why I never advanced past Windows 7.
Windows 8 looked like crap.
Windows 9 didn't exist.
Windows 10 looked like they tried to unfuck Windows 8 with a mild degree of sucsess.
Windows 11 is actively the worst operating system I've ever heard of.
Meanwhile, I've installed about 6 different versions of linux. I don't get it. It looks like an operating system that I SHOULD like........but 12 years, and 6 different attempts later, I don't get it. I gotta remember code to install things?
Something like this:
And it spits out an error because it's as much jibberish to linux as it is to me.
I just want to click.
Click click. Installed. Done.
I shit you not. I have a case for a raspberry pi. That case has a fan. For some stupid reason, that fan does not have a switch. Instead you need to install that fan with the operating system. I forget the code, but it's actually really easy. You know what's NOT easy? Getting the fan to work after I updated everything.
Apperently that shits impossible. Theres even a github page where some guy wrote another code, which I can't figure out, that unfucks the fucking that any update does.
Then you got some linux users saying "always update and stay up to date!"
Then you got other linux users saying "don't ever update unless you need to".
Then there's android. I like android. I can use android. Android is built on linux. So thats proof you CAN have linux be a stable user friendly operating system.
And 2009-2015 taught me that android can be free of corporate bullshit. Fully customizable. You can install your own take on it. In android they're called roms, but in linux it's distros.
Yet I've NEVER seen a distro run like android.
I'm sure they could even come pretty close to what windows is. But the people who develop linux have such a hate grudge against windows, that they refuse to admit that windows is the easier to use software, and the masses will only use software thats easy to use.
I'd LOVE to use my equipment I paid 200 dollars for. Instead, the last 3 years it's sat unused, because the thing runs hot, and I can't turn the fan on. That's what is preventing me from playing the 800gb of roms (video games, not android images) I put on that card. That's whats preventing me from linux. I can't turn the fan on.
That's cause they don't use their computer anymore. They do everything on their phones now.
To be fair, troubleshooting windows so I could play games in the 90s led to me becoming an actual sysadmin, so that's cool I guess
Ah, the days of manually editing files in DOS so you could run Warcraft. No thank you.
But you have to admit warcraft was amazing and worth the hassle :)
Touche, mon frere. Touche.
This way! No, THAT way!
Same here, but DOS.
I don't know what version of XP you're using, but this is not true in the last decade. The only times I reinstalled Windows was when I bought a bigger SSDs to my notebooks and figure to just do a clean one and play with the partitions a little. I never, ever, needed to reinstall because something was broken, even after updates. And my company still have notebooks running for about 6 years without needing a reinstall, which would be a huge headache.
Now on Ubuntu, Fedora, elementaryOS... I always had those implode for one reason or another, usually thanks to system updates. I got my DE dead by installing an app. I got it locked by uninstalling an app. And I wasn't even doing fancy stuff like using the terminal to hack stuff.
I really wish I could migrate from Windows, specially now withbthis AI crap. The truth is, Linux is an usability nightmare and it still has a long, long way to go. Even macOS is better, and that's saying a lot.
Windows is fairly stable now. I have been averaging about 4 years an install and I have only been reinstalling due to new disks.
My windows install (unfortunately 11 now because I needed nested virtualization on AMD) was first installed in 2016.
Since then I have switched the boot drive twice, the processor and motherboard once, the GPU once, upgraded and installed non OS disks many times.
I have not reinstalled it a single time. I do know quite a bit about windows so I have been able to fix every issue so far (except a new weird one that's annoying but not game breaking), but still it shows how stable Windows is these days. Updates have not broken anything that I can think of (except that annoying update that everyone got in February or something, which doesn't work because it tried to do something which doesn't work.).
And yes I know I should reinstall but that would be so much work.
My experience mirrors yours. Back in the day I used to have to do clean installs all the time, but I haven’t for years now, and I’ve swapped lots of hardware and disks, etc. it’s fairly problem free for the most part, except for the creeping sense of doom I feel with each new piece of adware they cram into the user interface. I am definitely planning on switching to Linux, I have an Ubuntu server and have installed a flash drive version of arch on my laptop before, but I just haven’t hit a wall yet that makes all the work of completely switching necessary yet.
It’s so wild that I have seen like, four Linux people in my lifetime admit the simple truth that every version of Windows and macOS, iOS and Android since conception have been geared progressively more toward being absolutely friendly to users that are dumb as rocks—in a good way—where Linux has absolutely not. And that this barrier is 100% of the difference between proprietary desktop environments and Linux. Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop. The closest I have seen to the contrary is like, maybe the Adwaita devs, and unfortunately they don’t have the reach to apply their knowledge to essential UX stuff like app installation or hardware compatibility.
This is why I get so frustrated with the “just switch to Linux, loser” crowd, because it’s so utterly disconnected with the reality that most people do not have the resources to invest in any kind of learning curve. It has to be intuitive and accessible from the start. Web developers understand this. MS, Apple, and Google get it. Like, even people who design public transportation understand that they must cater to a user who is drunk and not fluent in the local language when designing signage and systems. Why doesn’t the vast majority of the Linux community get it?
100% agree. I hope Cosmic DE can remedy some of those learning curves, but that is a tough ask from a desktop environment .
I mean heck, it took me several months to fully get accustomed to OS X Tiger when I switched from Win XP back in the day.
interesting, TIL! i will definitely look into this. but yeah it does speak volumes that this isn’t even in alpha yet and it’s 2024. specifically hoping the app store and the bluetooth/audio UX are watertight because those are the primary weak points i see for non-power users in GNOME and such.
also doesn’t exactly exude faith that one of their biggest marketing points is… yet another terminal with gpu rendering. hot take: the point of the desktop metaphor has been to bring the user beyond the terminal since 1970. expecting the average user to go back to relying on text commands for daily use should not be on the table if you are developing a desktop environment.
Please have babies.
Because a lot of them are the kind of computer geek who makes "normies" hate computer geeks. You know the type: condescending, arrogant, passive aggressive, a mild bully. The kind that enjoys making other people who don't share their hobby feel stupid. I think they should be forced to work in an auto shop, or a house framing crew, or a plumber crew, and see what it feels like to be made to feel stupid on a skill you have no experience in. I worked IT, and these guys are repulsive, especially while they're mocking and belittling the elderly, or the mentally disabled.
the *nix community has a toxicity problem, absolutely. it’s tradition at this point, a culture stemming back to rtfm. i highly applaud those voices in the FOSS movement that break this stereotype and embrace the user without question.
....................they are lucky I don't have the skills to be in IT. I'm a pretty big guy, and most people confuse me for some hateful ogre out to hurt you. In reality, I want EVERYONE to have a good day! I'm the guy on public transportation who just had a rough day at work, just wants to go home get drunk and watch hockey......but I can't even do that because my dad decided to call and tell me the results of the game, after I JUST SAID DO NOT SPOIL THE GAME!!! and he proceeds to spoil the game. Now I can't even relax after a shitty day of work. Yet, I still have to get home, so here I am on the bus.......and I see an old woman struggling to get on the bus. Yet the bus driver isn't lowering the bus.
I'm the guy to get up, help the woman on the bus, and give up my seat for her. I'm still furious at my day, but she wasn't the cause of it, and I don't see why the bus driver, nor any other passengers are even attempting to help.
And while I don't have any stories recently like that on the bus for the disabled, my whole job is pushing people in wheelchairs. My whole job is helping the disabled.
So back to people thinking I'm this big strong ogre, who's looking to hurt people? I'm not.......but there is no quicker way to make that statement true than if you are trying to bully the elderly or disabled. Just because it's not in my nature to hurt people, doesn't mean I'm incapable of it.
If I'd have seen those IT guys doing that, they'd have a new hospital bill, and I'd have lost a job. Maybe went to jail. Probably would have hurt myself as much as I hurt them, since I'm not a fighter, but I'd come charging in like a 300lbs bull just fucking shit up.
I'm the same, I want everyone to be happy, and I like to see people win. I despise bullies of any type.
I feel this needs to be a sticky at the top of every page on all of Lemmy. This NEEDS to be heard.
With AI being what it is, I'm not going to go past Windows 7.
I'm not going to spend big money on apple devices.
But I can't figure out Linux. I want to use linux. But I have no ability to.
big fax
careful with w7. not a professional but at least make sure you get a solid up to date antivirus and avoid the sketchier parts of the web :)
I have a version of firefox, that was probably released in 2012, and ublock orgin. Havent had a virus ever. I'm fairly sure even the firewall is off. No idea. Haven't looked at it in at least 10 years.,
Linux is stuck in the I had to do X so you have to do it too mindset. They are generally opposed to user friendly options if it means removing pain they feel is core to the experience.
Nice rant. Doesn't reflect anything I experienced. From all linux users I know just one is a nerd. And he doesn't develop or interact with any community.
Stop ranting about your desired workflow and start implementing it if in desperate need.
I agree in regards to a through thought ux though!
Downvotes but non formulated opinion. Elaborate please. I strongly believe I am defending the correct intention.
downvotes because your comment was insulting, rude and bossy. it is very possible to defend the correct intention without being unkind and counterproductive.
You are implying quite a few things here.
And apparently under the assumption that you represent the majority/common sense - again.
mean comment - again, blocked lol
Is it still an unpopular opinion if I just hate that I agree with you?
(Writing this from my linux gaming desktop. I don't use arch btw)
Yes we can be unpopular together.
Hey, if you get enough of you to agree, it'll be the popular unpopular opinion!
Philosophy time: Is it unpopular opinion if 90% of PC users agree with you?
On the other hand, this is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy
Which is why I posted it. I was honestly hoping to be proven wrong, but instead I got a lot of victim blaming. Even Linux users aren’t ready to accept mainstream people coming from Windows.
Victim blaming? Who's the victim?
Linux abused them. Have some compassion, you monster
This.......except I'm not joking. Linux definately killed a few of my brain cells.
A bunch of people telling me I did it wrong, or used the wrong distro, or that 90% of normal windows users will know how to troubleshoot software that isn’t installing right by going into terminal.
The victim is either the typical normal user or me depending on these types of responses.
There's some merit to offering other distros to try for you, the individual. We're all nerds, it's a problem we want to help solve. (Bazzite is my recommendation if you're up for another shot lol.)
But in terms of "is Linux ready for the average user," I think Mint is considered pretty widely to be a "just works" sort of distro. It's certainly fair to use that experience as an example.
No distro "just works" until the whole platform can easily install software by double clicking. You need to be able to uninstall terminal 100% and still have a functioning OS.
The kind of OS a drunk lizard man could sit on a mouse and still operate the OS with his butthole.
THEN it just works.
I would have said "90% of windows users have no idea what a terminal is. If you told them to use terminal, they would ask "Oh no! Are you dying???"
Why do Windows users feel entitled to the free labor of others.
I don't think open source developers should feel obligated to chase after "normal users", they should just make great software. Linux is arguably the most successful OS that has ever existed, if it's not dominant in one specific shrinking sector is that the worst thing in the world?
Linux (+ everything needed for a desktop) has been a great desktop system for 20+ years, most difficulties aren't the fault of Linux, they're the fault of vendors failing to support and/or Microsoft throwing up barriers to competition.
............what???? If we're talking about users using the desktop experience (so like, not systems where linux is the backend, but the user never experiences it), then Windows is the dominant OS platform. If for nothing else than people know how to use it because every business uses it.
Second most used would be iOS.
And then.........with maybe less than 1% of users, would be linux. Nobody uses Linux, because nobody knows how the fuck to use it.
Saying Linux is the most dominant OS platform for users is like saying Kwanzaa is the most celebrated religious holiday. I'm 40 years old. I've been in jobs where you meet new people every day. Probably have met thousands of people.
I've met exactly ONE linux user. Well.....I should say linux family. He was a 34 year old, who lived at his grandmothers house, because he lived with his dad, and his 62 year old dad still lived with his 93 year old mom. But, I only interacted with the family for 2-3 hours. I'm still not 100% sure the mom was actually alive. I briefly saw her move, but you could easily convince me it was a weekend at bernies situation.
I cannot give an accurate number on how many windows users I've used. It's far too high.
Do I upvote this post if I disagree or only if I know most people disagree with it?
Right???
I think there is no general answer to "Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?" because the use case is so important to consider.
If you just need a PC to browse the web and consume media then Linux is absolutely fine. This should more or less apply to a large group of users that don't do anything else with their devices.
Are you a gamer? Then I'd say more or less perfectly fine but it really depends on the games you want to play. Everything with the new, invasive anti-cheat tools doesn't work (e. g. League of Legends) but smaller, single player, or many multi player games do work at the moment.
Are you a professional or are using otherwise specific software? This is the biggest hurdle I see at the moment. CAD programs for engineering are a big problem for example.
And last but not least: Are you using periphery that needs specific drivers? Printers, audio interfaces, and whatnot. Then you might be out of luck as well if you can't script.
The last two points are the only ones that would worry me when I won't have at least one windows machine lying around.
Incorrect. The answer is "No."
So Linux is fine until you need to print, use software and some other scenarios? Explain that to my niece.
your niece is using ChromeOS or Android and making fun of her uncle for still being on a desktop
Your niece sets her windows pc up herself then or how can I understand your example?
Thats the thing, setting up a windows pc is really easy for the average user Hear me out: They dont have all the expectations and knowledge about different OSses that we have so they just navigate their current system to get to where they need to be or else ask a PC-literate person. No PC-illiterate person was bithered by cortana in the setup process or the games or weather in the startmenu.
You tried Mint yourself. Wouldn't you agree that setting up mint is exactly as difficult as windows? Only thing is that people aren't accustomed to it, but it's hardly more difficult. And those pc-illiteraze users don't set up their PCs adter all I'd argue. It's the pc vendor or nephew or whoever that sets up the rig.
Only thing is that it's unfamiliar, not more difficult. But if that's the problem, then it's just ppl not wanting to adapt to anything for the sake of it.
To be honest, for a fair review I would have to define the "setup" better. For Linux Mint I had to prepare a USB to flash it and mess in the BIOS while all my Win machines came with it installed. But we dont count that I assume. Besides that the initial setup was easier/faster on LM. But then for the most people finding and installing further programms is easier on a Win machine is easier, because many things are already installed. Some things might be bloat for some people but for tech-illiterate people having they might be useful: They already have a mail client (or even two....), the whole office suit (just one login away), hardware that is compatible for sure (even the fingerprint scanner and camera for face-login), and so on. Me personally am bothered by bloat, long startup times, bloat, telemertry and so on like many tech-guys. But then I think to my grandma who opens her old Win10 laptop, then goes to set up her iron-board (for clothes, idk how thats called) because she is used to having old machines. Then she looks at the desktop and clicks the icon with the word "Mail" in it, because all she needs know is that whe wants to check her emails.
So if I set up my old laptop for her, its easier and faster to setup a fresh windows, arrange the already installed icons on the desktop and do the logins for her. With Linux Mint I would have to bother with finding a compatible mailclient. Altho its not really that big of a deal, I admit.
So my conclusion is, maybe 2025 is the year of Linux, when there is a very noob-friendly OS which has at least some "bloat" already installed.
Setup wasn’t evaluated because it’s a one time thing that a normal person wouldn’t need to deal with. It also seems unfair to compare an OS install when Windows is pre-installed.
A PC-Illiterate person does zero tinkering. They turn on their pc and it works. If distributors shipped computers with Linux, like they did with Windows, it would probably be a better solution for 90% of people who only want to browse the internet, and could care less about all the fancy bloat that windows adds.
Can you explain to my sister why she can't play DVDs on her brand new laptop that she paid a fortune for that came with windows.
She's not a complete idiot. probably average maybe slightly above-average.
She was on the verge of RMA-ing her perfectly functional DVD drive though.
Ooh in actual know this one: licensing. It costs money to commercially distribute the decoder.
thanks, that might actually explain it.
I always thought those fees were tiny vs the price of the os.
But i guess they're probably only charging dell a small amount on a pre install.
They could still put a codec pack in the store though and have the user pay a few quid for it - or whatever.
They do that for hevc but I suspect they looked at the telemetry and realized no one was using their built-in apps to play dvds? I honestly don’t have a dvd player to even test it out. my ps4/5 does a good enough job.
Because no new laptops have dvd drives? Seriously do any new laptops whatsoever still have dvd drives?
If it's an external drive I would just tell her to install VLC if the normal media play doesn't work (but I think it does work pretty well for DVDs).
She could also try searching for "windows dvd" and pick the first article she finds and at least every article I found tells you to install VLC.
Sorry i wasn't clear about my point - I'm pretty sure I could get windows to play a dvd if i really wanted to.
But all i needed to do was prove that the dvd drive wasnt broken, and a live linux mint usb did that in 3 extremely "complicated" minutes.
My actual question was more like:
" how come - if windows is so simple and so much easier to use and set up for normal users - she couldn't do something she'd been accustomed to doing for years."
The windows software centre or whatever it is was not keen to offer VLC, didn't seem to mention it, but it was very keen to tell her she could buy the film from MS store or something affilliated.
anyway, it's ok, i think the next dude has given some interesting info.
Heres how you set up windows.
Step 1, put the disk in the tray.
Step 2, click next about a jillion times without reading anything.
Step 3, maybe put in a 16 digit code or whatever on the CD.
Step 4, drink a bunch of beer as your pc does the rest for the next hour.
Step 5, open Edge (today) or Internet Explorer (up until like 10-15 years ago).
Step 6, go to facebook, because thats all this machine can do.
And thats the average windows user.
I print and use software all day.
Thank you for your bigoted take. You know very well that a) GNU/Linux can print, b) it can "use software" and c) deal with any other scenario.
How tf is that bigoted?
I was paraphrasing…
Using an awful example to showcase it as well.
Like the other dude said, your niece likely only wants to browse Instagram or tiktok.... which a fresh install of mint or Ubuntu would work perfectly for.
Your average user isn't going to go download a seperate browser, they're just going to use the one pre-installed which.... surprise surprise, means everything would work out of the box for a truly ignorant user who can't help themselves.
don't worry about it. with the enshittification of win 11, that gap will close faster than copilot will record your activities.
Those upcoming changes are why I've been playing with the idea of a complete switch to Linux. While I use Linux regularly (but certainly not exclusively) and feel comfortable making the transition to it from Windows, my wife and kids would struggle with some aspects of Linux. And committing all of us to that OS transition would mean a commitment for me of troubleshooting, assisting, and educating the family.
Thanks OP for this post. I know you're getting some shit for it, but I and others appreciate your honest findings.
I don't think OP's analysis should be taken as offensive or disingenuous by others here. And I don't understand why they are getting shit. I've been using Linux off and on for 20 years. It's come an insanely long way in that timeframe with its usability for less technical users. But yes, there are still some gaps to fill. And the way to fix them is to listen to honest feedback like OP's.
For some reason you're suggesting us to believe that your wife and kids do the maintainance of the windows machines like finding GPU driversbut couldn't do it for Linux machines.
New windows computers almost definitely have a program that does this for you with a click of a button. You don't have to hunt for the download button on a shady website to get a gpu driver anymore.
A New Computer with pre installed Linux also has all drivers necessary preinstalled.
Isn't Nvidia a pain though?
I've heard differing experiences lately. It seems dependent on how old you card is and if it's supported by Nvidia I guess
On GNU/Linux, the drivers and blobs come with the kernel, so every installation has, by the nature of the operating system, all the drivers it could ever need. The only exception here are proprietary drivers, but that's not because of technical limitations, it is due to the philosophy of our free software movement. You can easily find distros that come pre-installed with proprietary drivers.
No, I'm saying that whenever they would run into any problem with the OS they would need to either figure out how to overcome it, or I works need to help them with it. It could be a more technical issue. It is could be a case of " how do you do this thing in the Linux UI? Because it's different from Windows."
There is no "Linux UI" per se, the closest thing to it is Bash I guess. I find it important to make people understand that GNU/Linux is not bound to any particular GUI like Windows or MacOS are. With them, their less knowledgeable users equate the GUI to the OS, which is fair because they are so tightly integrated and not changeable. But for GNU/Linux, the visual UX+UI are entirely modular and not part of the operating system itself. As I said, the Bash shell may be interpreted as a kind of UI standard for FOSS Unix and Unix-like systems, but it's also not necessarily required in that it can be replaced with another shell program.
Of course, not knowing you I cannot tell how experienced you are with GNU/Linux, so you could know all of this already, therefore don't feel like I'm trying to belittle you or anything, this is meant to be genuinely helpful by giving people that have no prior exposure to GNU/Linux some glances into what makes it special.Edit: scratch that last part, I've just now noticed that you are the same person that said they had already transitioned partially
Well, there is always a curve for learning a new UI, even if similarly structured.
But then you could never escape Windows, because most users are trained for that UI and have certain expectations for it.
The Step from Win7 to Win10 maybe would be similar, lots of things changed. (even though we know Win10 had alot of Win7 things under the hood)
If OP is unwilling to learn basic features of the OS, of course they face criticism. This post is not a good contribution, it is once more a superficial review by someone who has jumped on the hating GNU/Linux bandwagon because they somehow personally identify with M$. But the Apple crowd is worse.
I’m OP, I’m not unwilling. I couldn’t turn this laptop over to anyone else though.
Also, I don’t hate Linux nor do I love windows. I hate windows probably more, for other reasons. The pinnacle OS for me is OSX as distributed on the BlackBerry passport.
I’m even on an Apple phone right now.
It’s not difficult to empathize with non-technical people though, which is why my post is about.
So 2025 is the year of Linux desktop? This time for real.
Cosmic DE is coming out this year tho
windows isn't ready to replace windows. they never have been.
Poor take. 3.1, NT4, 95, 98SE, 2000, xp, 10. All were widely considered to be a considerable improvement over the OS they replaced.
Where Millennium and Visita?? :D
Vista was a sacrifice. They needed vista to be awful so 8+ could fly.
ME was designed by the marketing team.
I really liked Vista, it was the first stable Windows for me that I didn't have to reinstall once in a while.
Never used 8, I hated it.
Millennium wasn't just a stunt, but it got bad reputation bcs of not-really compatible drivers with W98.
sure good old fashioned stuff from when I was a baby or something excluding 10 which really didn't offer much apart from more telemetry than ever and even more convoluted system settings menus. I'll let the pre-10 releases that weren't total garbage slide but any widely considered improvement going forward at least will be shills, bots, and ai articles, calling it now.
I suspect with MS pushing their products to be based on webview2 (teams, new outlook, etc) that the next OS they release will be designed for a more efficient cpu architecture, similar to what Apple is doing. Like vista, it will probably suck until it gains more mainstream support.
Sorry but most of those points can easily be applied to Windows too. But yes, if you cannot even do simple configuration options, which there's GUIs for too, or differentiate between distros / Windows versions, then I'm afraid even Windows is not ready to replace Windows.
Honestly… I love Linux with all my heart. I can firsthand say that the Linux Desktop is 20 thousand times better than when I got into it around the first Ubuntu betas, but it’s still quite a mess in certain areas. It often boils down to the hardware and software you expect to run on it (or viable alternatives, if they exist) being compatible or not.
🚩🚩🚩
A line used by every concern troll.
I need to disagree on pretty much all points. I switched both my mother and an old friend of mine to linux and neither of them had any major issues. They're not technical people, but they understood the basics needed for everyday use without problem.
I swear, half the issues people report after trying out linux are entirely related to the nvidia drivers and nothing else.
You're the monster I deal with the remains of at my job lol
Linux is plenty ready for "most users." I recently saw a meme that applies here, about experts/enthusiasts overestimating the "average normie" in their field even when they're trying to account for most people not being on their level.
"Most users" scroll Facebook or Twitter and watch Netflix. Distro comes with firefox? GG. 🤷♂️ While I don't think its widespread (and hope lol,) ever since the Facebook app integrated a web browser there are people (usually younger iirc) who think Facebook IS the internet. Loads of people almost wouldn't notice if you switched their os overnight, if they have a desktop/laptop at all.
As for people looking to change to Linux due to MS business decisions, let's be real - they're by and large already techies. Its also not the 90s anymore, there are resources abound and SOOOO many users to have your problem before you do.
Personal nitpick for me, nothing to do with OP but the overall sentiment - Using the terminal is NOT THAT BALL CRUSHINGLY HARD as people still make it out to be, certainly not for stuff you may need it for in modern times. I have fedora, I need spotify. "sudo dnf install Spotify" "y" ta da. Certainly not an adventure, IMO.
EDIT: I'm thinking alot of you haven't used Linux in a long time. I've run into an issue before, but people run into issues with windows too and nobody is screeching about that. 🤷♂️ Some of you just straight didn't read my comment. 🤣
Your post misses the entire point.
While us nerds can work out problems and use a terminal, it doesn't mean we're happy to spend our time trouble shooting instead of actually getting shit done.
And the fact that so many of these basic issues should exist in the first place leaves one with the sour taste that they have to hold the OS's hand forever.
Normal people don't want to touch the terminal at all.
You really have no clue how inept “most users” are. I’d be extremely surprised if even 20% of the population would be able to use Linux without getting extremely frustrated at the first error, and unable to fix anything themselves.
Yeah, and if you think that "most users" are ready for linux, you're in that meme.
That I do not understand. With APT, it's usually a single installation command for any kind of software packaged by the distribution. An adventure would in that case translate to a one-liner by your standards?
Any problem that breaks the GUI version to such a degree that the user must resort to using the terminal is a problem. You and I may be content to use the terminal -- hell, I tend to prefer it over most GUi options -- but that doesn't mean your average user will be happy to do so.
I would be surprised if 5% of the people that use a computer at all know how to work a CLI of any form.
Additionally, when you get a response from the command that the dependencies failed to install, what is the typical computer operator expected to do? They are already far outside of their abilities at this point.
I know jack and shit about Linux, but my laptop running Mint has happily taken every computer job, except for recording music, from my win10 desktop. I have opened the terminal exactly 0 times. There's a flatpack for everything I have desired so far. oS geekness is not needed to run Linux. As I get used to the available music software I will have no further need of ms windows.
Anti-libre software forcing us to click through 69 boxes to fail without showing any error while banning us from sharing fixes source code, banning us from fixing the problem, is so much better. I would be surprised if 0.00001% can't open terminal, type three words and press enter.
For media consumption, internet browsing etc, Linux is more than ready to replace Windows. However, problems do arise in exotic hardware combinations, but these days, this is the exception rather than the norm.
What's Windows?
A retirement system the Kremlin uses.
Windows isn't good enough to replace the Unix/linux desktops I've been running for the past 35 years.
Who doesn't trust that people can learn new skills? This guy.
You assume people can. Simply moving between browsers is a problem for most people. you overestimate how technical competent most people are.
That sounds more like their issue if they struggle to switch software.
Let’s be honest, most of the time it’s a lack of willingness to learn how to use something or just ignorance. As opposed to anything else.
It’s not difficult to learn, most people just refuse to do so.
They think we're too stupid to switch app, extremely patronising.
You might not be. But have you ever worked in IT support?
I can speak to this. I did phone support for 6 years working with VoIP (internet phones). In my experience, it’s much less their ability to learn and much more their willingness. So many people I worked with never wanted to go off their beaten track of what they already knew how to do.
They would do it often because it was a management decision and they were stuck with calling support. Even just training a group of 4-5 people how to transfer a call could take 15-30 minutes of explaining all the details. They don’t want new phones. They just want to get back to the work they know.
There are certainly exceptions and occasionally they will even find it fun to learn something new or get new features, but this was definitely not the rule.
I’ve always considered the perfect technology to be one you never realize you’re using. Linux, as broad and powerful as it’s utility can be, is anything but seamless to someone who doesn’t already have years of experience with it.
Like linux on the steam deck. Very seamless console experience.
Who's calling Microsoft IT support after buying a new laptop?
The type of people who are going to struggle adopting an entirely new OS that sometimes requires more than simply "using it".
This minority struggles using any system, so switching alongside others, away from convoluted, anti-libre software, Windows/macOS, will ensure they continue to receive help.
I agree with the fact that they will struggle with any system... they MIGHT be a minority (I'm not entirely convinced of that to be honest) but it isn't small minority that can be expected to simply "tag along" for something like this.
Addendum: My comment is not to say they handle windows better than Linux or vice versa...it is change that they will rebel against, not the adoption of Linux. Better the devil they know....
As a full-time Linux user and evangelist, I agree that it's not ready for most users. Just too many issues and idiosyncrasies. Mostly bugs and hardware incompatibility things. Also way too easy to break your system.
It is a tough sale for sure.
I am trying to transition to Linux but there are a bunch of hurdles.
For example I installed fedora KDE spin in dual boot on my desktop. Then I installed steam as a flatpak and pointed it to my already installed game. Didn't work because of some permissions I didn't understand how to configure with flatseal.
Alright then noted I need to learn that shit but now I want to play a game so I uninstalled the steam flatpak and installed the steam package from the fedora repo. Checked the boxes in the packagemanager-gui (discovery) for nonfree steam and nonfree nvidia drivers, pointed to the library and it worked.
Great! Updated the games and downloaded the saves. So far so good. But after all that I had no time to play anymore because i had to look up a bunch of stuff to understand that I don't understand enough to make it work the way I tried.
I took my laptop with me which also has fedora KDE on it. When I had a little time I thought "hey maybe I can play a bit of moonring. After all I now know how to get steam running".
So I downloaded steam from the fedora repo, Logged in, downloaded moonring and... No save sync.
I go into settings and see that cloud save is enabled. Start a game maybe that triggers it? Nope.
It doesn't even say that sync failed or something like that beside the start button.
Okay so off to the web search. But as that gets more fucked by the minute I just get some problem adjacent stuff.
Like: "how to install steam on fedora". I already installed it, why isn't the cloud working? "Maybe it is because the path for savefiles is casesensitive?". Maybe but what am I supposed to do about it? And so on. So I closed my laptop with a bad taste in my mouth.
It is just frustrating to have to understand a bunch of shit you are not interested in just so that something works which worked before without a problem.
The world is just to complex and fast moving to understand everything and to retain everything. That's why we are an expert society. "I invest my time to understand this stuff really good and you invest your time to understand this and in the end we exchange our labor".
And that's the "problem" with Linux, that you have invest time into it. And people mostly don't have the time because they have lifes beside the PC.
Sounds like your issue is with steam, not with Linux.
In fact my issue was with neither. As it turns out the game does not have cloud saves enabled. Other games sync.
If moonring has a linux native variant, it is not going to sync saves between versions automatically, you can download the proton version of your game however and snag your game files to put in the linux native version (or honestly just play the proton version, they are usually more up to date)
I gave up when the graphics kept breaking itself on every update. I don't have the time or patience to fix that kind of stuff, anymore.
Anti-libre software, Steam, bans us from sharing fixed source code. Software hijacking our control, no one has time for that.
1997 was the year of Linux on the desktop.
Also 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
2024 baby! I can feel it.
This will be the millenium of the Linux desktop!
"replacing windows" should not be the objective of the Linux desktop ecosystem.
Tell that to every Linux fan that responds with "just install Linux" to every single Windows related issue posted anywhere.
But like.... what other option is there? Windows sucks absolute ass and its not getting better.
MacOS.
It's the middle ground between windows and Linux imo.
It's unix-y enough to give you tons of flexibility with the terminal. Homebrew is one of the better package management systems out there. Iterm2 is the best terminal emulator I've used.
You get access to most popular software still and the hardware is unmatched.
It's more expensive and less flexible in terms of OS customization though and you basically can't game on it. I think there are some good tiling window managers for it though.
You’re right but the ask we’re going to see next year is “what do I do with my old laptop/desktop now that it won’t run windows?” And after my experience with 3 distros the answer is “recycle it and buy a new one”
99% of Apple's customers, or the general populace, have no intention of ever installing another OS on their Apple product. Most of them wouldn't even know it was possible, or care.
But for those people that want to try something with the laptop they were just going to throw out anyway, or now they have two desktops after buying an upgrade, and they are willing to tinker with something new, why not? The issues you came across with Mint seem to have a very minor impact to me in the context of running a web browser, word processing, and video streaming. A later comment seemed to place PopOS in the same category. For a casual user, who isn't needing to install a bunch of different apps, isn't that fine?
Most people don’t see a tinkering with an old laptop as fun.
For the casual user the issues I encountered are not acceptable.
Maybe "tinker" is too strong for what I meant to convey, but even switching from Windows 10 to Windows 11 would involve some level of re-learning and tinkering to get things how they like. Unfortunately, they are being forced one way or another, and that's on Microsoft.
There is no other option, and that's ok.
The vaaaast majority of users just don't care about the problems you cite, and honestly they're probably happier for it.
You don't need to fix privacy for everyone else if they're happy with broken privacy.
That's pretty much it.
There are plenty of user friendly Linux distros out there and a bunch of them can serve as a daily driver for general computing. What's more, the learning curve isn't that steep and you can find tons of solid guides and tutorials out on the Internet.
But if Windows is working and you don't care about the privacy issues, ads, and it's general downward direction in user experience, there's no motivation to switch.
Sadly, the whole "Linux is only for power users and nerds" misconception is going to stick around until Windows becomes all but unusable for most people.
(random ass double post)
Unix. 😌
MacOS isn't going anywhere, but I'm not paying that much for the privilege.
I know this is a popular meme but I just don't really see that. I guess I don't see posts about windows related issues.
I'm a Linux fan but it's very obvious to me that linux is not the correct solution for most users.
unintentionally hilarious comment
My wife's gaming pc runs on garuda for quite some time now and she never had any problems, just saying. To the more intricate things: people have to get already that they don't get the everything-button. If you want something as you specifically want it, you have to learn some stuff. If you want a table that's just right for you and well done, you'll have to pay good money or learn carpentry. Why should it be different with technology?
Bro get ready to be descended upon by the cult
Anti-libre software is a cult. Who else bans removing malicious source code. iOS even has a store built-in, no package manager, to take their cut of our income and bans outside software. Good luck escaping.
That's precisely the desired outcome. Trolls gonna troll.
genuine criticism is not trolling
OP posted this knowing that it would provoke resident linux enthusiasts. That's trolling.
In other news, apples not yet ready to replace oranges.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion in general. (If you ignore the Lemmy Linux echo chamber).
How do you know you are not an abnormal user?
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
I think you're massively overestimating what normal users are willing to do. Normal users aren't going to install Linux because normal users don't install operating systems. Other things normal users don't do:
When the upgrade from windows 7 to 10 resulted in broken systems/applications, some normal users paid someone to fix it, but most bought a new computer.
In short, Linux is ready to replace Windows, but only in the cases where it's sold preinstalled on supported hardware. Android, ChromeOS and Steamdecks are good examples of this.
You’ve hit on a good point, which is that the steam deck is an abnormal success in this space.
But you’ve also missed a point. The install of the OS wasn’t being evaluated. Daily use was.
The daily use thing isn't going to be an issue because things like drivers and dependencies would be sorted out for end users on a machine thst is being manufactured and sold
I should think that would make you very much not a "normal" user
I’m not. But I know how normal users operate, which is the point of this post.
Because of market share.
I'm willing to accept, that without a "mentor" Linux is hard to get setup for someone on their own.
For someone resourceful, they can ask every question and hopefully find the relevant Linux answers online, sometimes make a few mistakes but eventually figure it out.
Some users who are decent with computers and Windows might find some Linux things harder to use, and also sometimes hardware drivers or other features are missing. If they aren't willing to put up with it to get away from Microsoft spyware then I respect that choice.
For users that need help setting up Windows to begin with from their "computer guy" that get flustered anytime something goes the way they didn't expect, Linux actually can be a little lower maintenance. Have all the apps they need in an obvious place, have the system either update automatically or have them do it once every while. Linux has been very stable in my experience for that type of user too.
It's not necessarily about asking questions or providing the right detail to someone who knows more than you though. After asking for help with the problems I'm experiencing, the answer turned out to be that the NVIDIA driver support for my hardware configuration just isnt there yet. It's not Linux's fault, but unless I spend hundreds to switch my GPU brand or start unlugging monitors, I'm stuck with Windows until Explicit Sync hits the stable release.
You make a good point, and I tried to encompass that in the quoted part of my comment. Stuff like fingerprint sensors is one thing, not having your video card supported is kind of difficult to put up with, admittedly.
Both mint and Ubuntu had issues with simple things like updating or running software, out of the box. Normal computer users won’t put up with that.
I did what the parent waz talking about to 3 children and 2 Seniors and one middle aged guy.
One child complained that he couldn't install windows games his peers were playing but other than that no complains.
I installed Ubuntu on older laptops, made sure everything works. Turned on auto updates and installed VNC server software if help would be necessary.
I also have one person with windows I help remotely.
The only difference for me is that the windows user somehow constantly has some bullshit extensions or something which change the browser behavior.
Practically the only thing those people use is a browser.
Oh and nobody has a discrete graphics card which would require a driver. Each of those laptops worked fine from scratch, no hardware problems.
That's just a straight up lie or an error on the part of the operator (you). Ubuntu is very stable with regard to running supported software, and rock-solid when it comes to updates not breaking things.
I wish it wasn’t true.
Also, let’s pretend it’s operator error. What should the typical user do? Reach out to a family friend that works in Linux?
Just thinking about my extended family, I can pick out 3 people that know windows, one that knows osx, and I would be the only one that knows anything about Linux. I suspect this is the norm.
do you not know how many linux support forums there are?? you can normally just search the issue and linux at the end and it will most the time get you there in the first page (outside of google that is).
Answers that say "paste this in your terminal" should not be used by people that don't know what they are doing. Even if 99% of those solutions work, we should not learn non-it people to make a habit of pasting random shit in their terminal.
So actually there are almost no answers for Linux for non IT people.
I will agree on this. learning to use man pages, and just even looking up the pastes is something you need to do else you are running the risk reformatting your drive or even getting a tool that was good in 2018 but had a maintainer change and now its normally avoided. But you should be doing that with tools even on windows and most people fail the check there as well. It was part of computers just being the greatest thing ever and shoved into everyones home in a cow printed box.
"Normal" computer users have no idea how to install software. Most people need someone to do this stuff for them anyway. For those Linux has a lot less potential for screwing things up. Anyone who is reasonably competent can pick up Linux in a few hours. Anyone who doesn't care about the enshittification won't bother. Anyone who does should make the effort.
The discrepancy I find with your statement is you switch your target audience half way though.
""Normal" computer user" != reasonably competent
By normal computer user i mean your granny or any of the people I have on the phone on a daily basis. Most of those people have only very rudimentary IT skills. A reasonably competent user is a couple of levels above that.
No network card found, would you like to go online and download drivers for the LAN card?
You tried Ubuntu and modified Ubuntu, why not throw your net further afield than Ubuntu?
Because the average new user is not going to wade through a dozen distros. They're going to try one, and if it doesn't work for them they're going back to windows.
If you are assessing the viability for people in that category only having 2 extremely similar data points seems kind of pointless
Distros aren't equal. Mint and Ubuntu are two of the most likely to be recommended to newcomers, and would probably be double digit percentages. I'm also fairly certain all distros have their own issues that users are going to run into.
Not disagreeing with the distros that were explored here, but wouldn't the point of something like this also coincide with trying to find the best distro to recommend to newcomers? And that would benefit from having a wider spread of distros investigated.
That isn't OPs responsibility, but it is a little unfair to say that Linux as a whole isn't ready when such a narrow view was investigated. SteamOS, for example, for someone who only wants a PC to play games. How is Bazzite holding up for a beginner? Or PopOS, compared to Mint, for first time users?
Not to mention issues experienced on Mint that are similar to issues in Windows 11. Windows 11 has intermittent issues while updating, can mess up driver installations, and sometimes needs access to PowerShell, command line, or third party apps and software to fix what is broken. Someone only familiar with Windows may simply accept those things as broken and move on, but on Linux it is perceived as a deal breaker.
Because a quick search said these were two that would be easiest for people moving from windows, and I was evaluating what i will recommend to people when their machines no longer run windows.
I also tried Pop!_OS and ran into similar issues that would turn off a normal person. I’ll probably stay with it
To be fair PopOS is just a third Ubuntu. I would have tried a Fedora based distro to see if you run into the same problems, maybe even also atomic based variant.
Yeah, maybe Arch would be easier! Did you even bother trying Arch? Quitter!
I’ve been running Fedora on a desktop for many years, and recently I finally got tired of the updates not working. Sure, it’s nice to have GUI, but if you end up using the terminal anyway to actually get stuff done, can you really say the GUI is helping a new users.
Many years before that, I also experimented with a bunch of different distributions to see if there’s anything I can recommend to a new user. Manjaro was pretty close, but you end up using the terminal anyway, because you’ll eventually run into some weirds stuff that requires terminal intervention.
Mint was slightly better, because you didn’t need the terminal quite as often and installing proprietary drivers through the GUI was easy and it actually worked. That’s why, at the time, Mint was the only distro I could recommend to just about anyone. Most people would still need some help installing the distro, but once it’s up and running Mint is likely to give you fewer headaches than other distributions.
All the other distros I’ve tried absolutely needed some terminal time every now and then. If the user needs a smoother experience with less time tweaking and hacking, Windows would be my first recommendation. However, it’s all a matter of priorities. How much do you value your free time or privacy. Are you interested technology at all. Those sorts of questions determine if Linux is a viable candidate.
It's obivous how Microsoft and Apple twist views on intuitive when they spend billions on advertising, disinformation, to spread their anti-libre software. Microsoft even push it in schools to infect kids minds.
If you want to be able to find help quickly, copy people who are active online and actually use GNU on their personal devices everyday, use Arch.
Most people don't install anything beyond office tools (and even those are switching to various cloud systems).
Also, I know it
iswas a thing, but I never had driver issues (ok, one wifi card in like 2005), I think drivers aren't really an issue anymore, maybe some proprietary stuff (fingerprint readers?).(As a funny side note, I have a wired laptop I can't get good Win drivers, but works perfectly out of the box with at least a few distros (openSUSE, Fedora, Debian).)
I manage 3 computers for my family, all run Linux for 10+ years. And I upgrade them frequently (with my old components most of the time :)). As I don't live with any of them I don't really want issues that would prevent their use. And beyond some bigger updates (versions or largely change from X11 to Wayland) over the years there is like an issue every few years. And now they all run Tumbleweed, so so no versions (set to upade monthly for their convenience).
Oh, and the og reason for Linux was because there were always constant issues with Windows. Im not gonna install XPs every few months.
Plasma 6 has a good fingerprint integration.
Tbf I did try out Linux Mint after using Windows basically my entire life and the only issue I ran into was that setting up the desktop was a bit fucky through the inbuilt UI settings (notably panels freaking out).
Other than that, it was fine.
Well that is actually not true. What do you want to install? Of course if you are a power user and want some special script for whatever reason yeah I can see you being forced to use the terminal, other than that there's often a DEB you can install via GUI with double klick, there are flatpaks you can install via GUI and double click and also AppImages. You can come pretty damn far with that to be honest.
I switched over a year ago and have had zero issues. The lemmings will surely stick with and defend w11, while the people that are tired of being spied on for their data to be better advertised to will move to Linux and realize how bad it was on windows and not believe they didn't switch sooner.
Thank you for your service o7
The app store or software center on most Linux distros are bad. I think Linux developers underestimate the importance of this part of the OS. For new users, the app store is one of the big 3 aspects of an OS: launcher, settings, app store.
Gnome settings app is easy to use, but missing a lot of controls.
The app store (software center) is just not helpful for exploring apps, and updates are always problematic.
The discover app in Kubuntu (and KDE as a whole I guess) works in my experience terrible for updates.
I always have to use the terminal to upgrade flat packs and normal programs.
Have you tried popos?
No, and I will now.
its good but heads up, Cosmic DE is around the corner ie by year end. Big hopes for it.
Just tried PopOS. I read up on cosmic de and like the idea. The first thing in a blog post is how cool their new Terminal is, and go into great detail about the changes Sadly, normal people won’t care about this, and I immediately think that this DE isn’t intended for people transitioning from Windows.
Pop OS failed to install due to secure boot. Not ideal, but they are upfront in the instructions about it.
During setup the prompt to connect an account hung. It didn’t time out or anything.
The Pop! shop informed me of some pending updates, which I said to go ahead and install. After a minute the UI hung and asked me to wait or force quit. After trying Wait a few times I decided to force quit it.
One of the apps inside is listed in the store but it’s an unofficial install? I cancelled it and will go through the manual install process (terminal, sigh)
Popshop is notorious bad but allegedly this will be fixed in Cosmic
A lot of these issues can probably be solved in one of two ways:
Buy a computer from a company that sells Linux computers. Hardware issues should be nonexistent, and sometimes there's even a customized DE that smoothes out package installation.
Have a friend help you get up and running. I've given out a few Mint machines lately, and I always boot it up and preconfigure some stuff before I hand it over.
Generally, I think most modern distros are well within the capability of anyone brave and savvy enough to flash a USB drive and boot their computer from it. If they don't have that level of technical skill, that's okay, but then I'd say pick from the two options above.
One person's experience on one computer with two distros isn't particularly objective.
I think we're about 95% there. I think Linux needs to be streamlined a bit. I know that's a personal list and some Linux cracks might not even get what I mean, as it's so natural to them, but I'd like to see better guidance on 1. the installation 2. about updating and 3. about the permission system.
Also for a newby it is totally not clear what kernel is and which I need. I still don't understand why there are so many and which I need for that OS I installed. I recently tried to get Linux on a surface tablet and I couldn't figure out how to make touch work properly. I installed Ubuntu surface, then switched to wayland, then tried KDE and a different UI, I think it was x11 or something like that and while touch works, it now randomly stops working for no reason and no way to find the process that froze. Then you find threads that say you did everything wrong and no one uses what you do, but I just did read a new thread about it. No it's all wrong, start with Z.
This is totally unintuitive. Make a Ubuntu mainstream pleb version and force every Linux user to only recommend this one version. Period. There needs to be a consent on where to direct people to. It's nice to have options but 99,9% of the people switching away from Windows don't need it. Also make it so people really don't need to know how kernel and different UIs work, I don't need that for windows either, unless we talk about major version changes. Which already feel different and people already have issues switching from win10 to win11.
Also you always got to read endless lists of installation processes, because every distribution works differently. Then you want to use a console command, but it doesn't work, because the underlying library is missing, so it throws unknown errors. That's where people quite, as it's piling up issues instead of resolving them.
updating feels still a bit strange. This needs to be as easy as windows. Zero clicks at best and one at most. I still had programs that needed multiple dependencies and multiple individual installations for things to work. It's practical that Linux isn't as bloated as windows, many Linux fans love that, but it sucks when you come from Windows and things simply don't work. I don't remember the last time I needed to find a windows driver other than a GPU driver and even those have automatic updates now, including my mainboard and other chip drivers. Not so on Linux. It's really nothing windows user want to deal with anymore. For gaming for example, if I want to use CUDA or raytracing or FSR options for a game, this should work out of the box.
The permission system needs to be as intuitive and easy as windows. Yes windows sometimes suck, especially if you don't run it under an admin account and yes sometimes you simply don't get the permission for a folder for no real reason, but that's about it. Linux it feels twice as complicated. Maybe speaks for it's security but it's also a huge weight, causing all sorts of frustration where a ton of people simply say quits and move back to windows.
Overall it's still too much of a nerd thing. If all you do is install Firefox, you might get by, but as soon as you try to do much else, you get hammered with options and therefore possible frustration.
Hopefully steam OS will solve this as gamer will recommended this one OS and not one of the thousands of different Linux versions. Because from the outside it doesn't feel like a different color, it feels like "maybe I should have picked Linux version Y, instead of X, and save myself a lot of frustration." And you do this once or maybe never and are done trying. There's a reason why Linux has so few users still. It's not simple resentment of windows users.
The first Linux that makes gaming a non issue, as all DRM and anti cheat work, will get my attention and even then, I know there'll be frustration, by setting something up outside the norm, because I will likely need to tinker with some hidden config and read obscure online threads to fix that one issue I would never have on windows. Download an extra missing config file. And this doesn't even keep in mind, that if you dare to ask someone about your specific Linux issue, you get replies like "get good".
I really like what Linux tries to do, but I think the users all brush off the very rough edges, to make themselves feel superior. If you watch some Linux subreddit or Lemmy, you can smell the superiority and every discussion I had about linux in real life with Linux fans, always was like "oh I don't have this issue under Linux" but then they hide all the issues they have and the thousands of hours the spend on fixing a specific issue. But at least they can say they don't touch the evil windows, and so shouldn't you.
I agree on most points except how close you think it is. It’s not 95%. There are so many issues that seem small to someone even slightly tech-savvy but are an impossible ask to mainstream users.
I think the problems are deep. You have to ask why isn’t there a distro for these people yet? It’s not for lack of trying.
I think foss at large has a UI/UX problem. The problem lies in that many people think UI/UX is that last 5%. You cannot, however, add this late in a process when dealing with complex programs or heck, an operating system.
Non-FOSS operating systems treat me like a product.
That's not good enough.
it's certainly ready to replace mac
Personally, I think we reached the point where most users would be fine. Once they switch, then the more professional applications will come.
I wish Tumbleweed would be used more. It's easy to install (but the installer is being rewritten anyways). Also, I have updated it on a laptop that was 2 years behind (because of lack of use). It updated perfectly and even proprietary software like Zoom just worked.
2023 was the year of the Linux Desktop. Wayland + pipewire gives us a base to have modern features but it took a long time to reach this point.
Dude most users don’t even know what a web browser is let alone package managers or driver maintenance.
@[email protected] MicroOs (Gnome version called Aeon and KDE version called Kalpa) will make OS updating and installing programs as easy as Android. MicroOS is essentially a locked down version of Tumbleweed (that sacrifices being able to customize for ease of maintenance).
The base is there. Linux is as easy as Windows at the moment for MOST tasks. Yes, it's nice that the manufacture set up the drivers on Windows but that is not the fault of Linux. The OpenSuse installer is very good at recognizing hardware off a clean install.
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/distributions/1467232-opensuse-aeon-rc2-released-with-btrfs-compression-default-zram-tik?p=1467241#post1467241
edit: grammar
Yes, but same applies on windows. Window still needs to be maintained as well.
All you’ve got to do is shut it down and it’ll ask if you want to update.
Under KDE, discover will send a system notification for updates.
Pretty sure other DEs do the same. But I can’t confirm since I only bother with KDE.
ill upvote do to zorinos
I dunno, the only actual issue I've had with Mint so far that didn't just resolve after an update or reinstallation of the offending software (glares at Nvidia drivers) just happened a couple days ago and I pray to Linus I finally did the right thing to fix it:
Decided I didn't need my old Win10 install anymore and so wiped the drive it was on, partitions and everything, ready to add it as a slower extra drive for Mint.
What I failed to realize in my exhaustion (ADHD script wasn't renewed, wet blanket withdrawal is fun) was this included the boooooooooot parrrrrtitiiioooooon
Was a bitch and a half to make my install media boot in non-legacy mode for some fucked reason so boot repair was a PITA. Literally was choosing EUFI_OPTION for my install media, but then the media was all "lol bro I'm booted in BIOS legacy ain't that wild"
Once I fixed that little issue (I'm sure my dumb ass just flipped a switch somewhere without noticing) it was actually an easier fix than Windows boot repair ever was.
The heart attack when my PC just opened to a blank black screen with a cursor blinking, though, whoof. That's the kind of rush we were made for boys.
Unpopular Opinion: Android is based on the Linux kernel. Almost most "Linux" Android users have never touched a terminal in their life. So the "Year of the Linux Desktop" has quietly happened and most people making redundant posts here on Lemmy :-D