I don't get it. What's the line between being into something which is obviously fine and good and "fetishizing" them? This guy is into Latin moms, I don't see what's so wrong about that
For Viewing it as Problematic:
Focusing on "Latina moms" can be seen as reducing individuals to stereotypes based on their race and role as mothers, which objectifies and disrespects their full identity.
Against Viewing it as Problematic:
If expressed respectfully and consensually, a preference for "Latina moms" could be seen as just another personal attraction, highlighting the diversity in human sexual interests.
Why Yellow Fever Isn’t Flattering: A Case Against Racial Fetishes
Abstract: Most discussions of racial fetish center on the question of whether it is caused by negative racial stereotypes. In this paper I adopt a different strategy, one that begins with the experiences of those targeted by racial fetish rather than those who possess it; that is, I shift focus away from the origins of racial fetishes to their effects as a social phenomenon in a racially stratified world. I examine the case of preferences for Asian women, also known as ‘yellow fever’, to argue against the claim that racial fetishes are unobjectionable if they are merely based on personal or aesthetic preference rather than racial stereotypes. I contend that even if this were so, yellow fever would still be morally objectionable because of the disproportionate psychological burdens it places on Asian and Asian- American women, along with the role it plays in a pernicious system of racial social meanings.
I think the "reducing to roles" thing is a bit silly. Some are into firemen but I feel like it'd be silly to run around calling that morally objectionable. I don't think anyone is under the impression a fireman, a teacher or a mom is literally just that role and nothing else.
I wonder if the race thing would be fine if it was towards the majority group of a country, since most of the objection from the paper seems to be about how it disadvantages people and enforces that disadvantage. That'd lead in funny situations though where being into white guys or gals would be fine in the US but not into black guys or gals. And in Japan it'd be fine to be into Asian guys or gals but not everyone else.
Engagement and learning usually do end racism yeah, that's pretty much how it works. Why do you think conservatives are so against things like college and inclusiveness? They don't like melting pots.
Then when confronted they'll insist that they're not racist, that they're a melting pot of friendship whilst using the classic line: "Some of my best friends happen to be black!"
Brother we've got South Asian renting appartments to their own race in several of the cities in my country and creating gangs to steal cars. Yeah I don't like your melting pot thing
my ended by me growing up. in my country small towns and villages had pretty much no foreigners when I was child so racism was pretty normal. mostly just really offensive jokes and racial slurs with no though give to them. so it was pretty easy for all that shit catch in to you. when I grew up a bit and started hangik out in the closest city I quickly stopped all of that shit. I was never racist by heart or hateful towards minorities but all that joking and slurring was so normalized that I didn't really give it a thought until I actually started thinking independently.
I feel sad towards some of the people I used to know who are now young adults and still live there doing the same bullshit and being actually racists
That is what it was like in the UK in the 1950s and 1960s. Unless you lived in one of the major cities,which was like four cities at the time, you didn't really see anyone who wasn't Caucasian.
I did have one once. Unfortunately I didn't measure my pre and post racism levels so I'm not sure if it helped or not. Also it was made by a large overweight man so perhaps it didn't have the full effect.
I had friends growing up from various races, my wife is from another race, and I work with other races. I still catch myself sometimes not treating people equally. It's really easy to prefer someone that looks like me over someone who doesn't.
Yeah, that's apparently the prevailing opinion, hence why I wrote the last two sentences.
Don't assume you're "not racist" just because you treat some people well. It's really easy to treat people differently just based on appearances, so watch yourselves. I assume I'm better than most because I get angry a lot at stupid stuff I overhear, but then my wife catches me saying something stupid sometimes. Nobody's perfect.
I work with people from a variety of countries, and I naturally gravitate toward people from my own. We share the same cultural background, have the same accent, and have similar skin tones. So I go out of my way to correct that.
I'm a manager, so when I look at promotions, I have to take a minute to write down the pros/cons to justify a promotion to help counter that bias. I also try to spend more time (lunches, water-cooler type discussions, etc) with those who are different from me as well, otherwise I'd naturally cluster with those who are more similar to me. I notice it in the people from other cultures as well, they tend to cluster with those that are similar to them as well, so hopefully me being proactive encourages them to reciprocate.
At least that's how I see it, and it seems to be working out alright.
I had a white mother and got a wooden spoon. Always made me wonder if the chancla stereotype was for real? Also hope you recovered from your childhood 🙏❤️
It's rather ironic how bad his English is. I'm seriously not quite sure what she did, does she literally just have a cooking recipe and somehow he's turned on by that. Not sure I want to understand.
I've always been attracted to Hispanic women so... I had to confirm ops video, I started looking. I think I found it. Can confirm momma is muy Caliente. Racism is over
Well, racism is completely irrational from a scientific point of view
Sociology would suggest otherwise. Xenophobia doesn't just exist without reason. It's just not the future we want to strive toward, in regard to human evolution.
I don't, I just think the kind of pseudo-intellectualism this guy was putting out was really typical of them. It's like vegans, they're right and insufferable about it.
Do you mean arrogant? Because I don't think we're narcissistic anymore than we're self-assured
I'm not gonna try to convince you to change your mind, but I will say that a lot of us atheists hold similar beliefs in a strict sense within the scientific framework that makes us agnostics with every unknown. I think you've heard of people saying sarcastically that they're agnostic of the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, right?
In a practical sense we simply don't pretend that we need absolute certainty with an omniscient-level of understanding to read between the lines of the reality that's right in front of us. Take that as narcissism if you must, but there's no reason to be conflate being self-assured with a sweeping personality trait
E: Also, sorry in advance for typing like an obnoxious atheist
I mean, you literally called the guy stupid and criticised the post for a "complete lack of logic": I agree with the other people that you write incredibly obnoxiously, especially if that's what you regard as "polite". Unfortunately claims of rationality can go hand-in-hand with a pseudo-intellectualism that is really grating when done in earnest.
Maybe rather than consider everyone else racist, you might do a bit of self-reflection and consider why people who clearly acknowledge that the main post is racist (see every other upvoted comment) still consider your post worse than the racism you're criticising.
I think you fail to understand that a lot of the people replying to you are solely replying because of your tone. You're not winning any argument against anyone because all they're telling you is that you're obnoxious. You can't spin that into a win over racist people because you need to recognise that people can agree with you and still treat you with hostility.
You're not standing up for anything by being volatile. The only reason why I'm even engaging with you on this is because of your original assumption that people who are making fun of the way you post must clearly be racists. If you can now agree that this is not substantively what they are talking about, and you are okay with that, then both of us can do without your moral grandstanding over how justified you are in doing this.
I just wanted to make sure you understood why people are treating you poorly, and will continue to treat you poorly into the future. These are not going to just be people who disagree with you. These will include people who agree, but think you're a real piece of shit.
Nobody's going to want to answer your "direct questions" or engage with your "assertions" (I'm leaving out "patience" because implicit in the idea of patience is manner, in which tone plays a big part and I still don't think you see it).
Does that mean you "win"? I think maybe everyone will be better off if you go away thinking you do, but no, it really doesn't.
This toxic way of thinking of needing to win conversations is also present in the first part of your anecdote where you claim that people used to "win" by asking you to calm down or stop using certain words. They're not trying to beat you, they're trying to engage in discourse that both sides can appreciate. If you literally cannot win an argument without resorting to namecalling or condescension, you really need to rethink the value proposition of your arguments.
And if you really think that you've won when people no longer want to engage with you, then, like I said before, maybe everyone is better off that way.
Agnosticism and atheism are not of the same kind. There exist agnostic or gnostic atheists and there exist agnostic or gnostic theists. From what you write, you are an agnostic atheist: You do not believe in a god, yet you can not be sure that there is none.
Undecided whether “objectified kink” is an upgrade or downgrade from regular xenophobia.
Classic sidegrade
It had a higher ceiling though. Objectification and kinks have some normal-facing sides.
Racism and xenophobia not so much.
I thought we agreed on no kink shaming
You’re into what you’re into but fetishizing people is still bad.
I don't get it. What's the line between being into something which is obviously fine and good and "fetishizing" them? This guy is into Latin moms, I don't see what's so wrong about that
Good question. First, from plagiarism machine:
Now, from a researcher who addresses the second point above:
What do y’all think?
I think the "reducing to roles" thing is a bit silly. Some are into firemen but I feel like it'd be silly to run around calling that morally objectionable. I don't think anyone is under the impression a fireman, a teacher or a mom is literally just that role and nothing else.
I wonder if the race thing would be fine if it was towards the majority group of a country, since most of the objection from the paper seems to be about how it disadvantages people and enforces that disadvantage. That'd lead in funny situations though where being into white guys or gals would be fine in the US but not into black guys or gals. And in Japan it'd be fine to be into Asian guys or gals but not everyone else.
Eh, philosophical researcher.
:) wonder how she’d feel about that specification!
Depends on what she thinks of nihilism lol
Yeah but mostly they're not this weird.
You are saying it's alright to kink shame if you find the kink weird? That's like, definitely the thing we shouldn't be doing
Engagement and learning usually do end racism yeah, that's pretty much how it works. Why do you think conservatives are so against things like college and inclusiveness? They don't like melting pots.
Then when confronted they'll insist that they're not racist, that they're a melting pot of friendship whilst using the classic line: "Some of my best friends happen to be black!"
Maybe they should try Hot Pot
Or Pol Pot.
Brother we've got South Asian renting appartments to their own race in several of the cities in my country and creating gangs to steal cars. Yeah I don't like your melting pot thing
> hate a group of people
> learn about the group of people's culture
> love a group of people
Anon must be a slow learner if it took him this long to figure out that Latina women are hot.
They needed a YT vid to make a quesadilla... Just saying.
I remember when I first watched Scrubs.
my ended by me growing up. in my country small towns and villages had pretty much no foreigners when I was child so racism was pretty normal. mostly just really offensive jokes and racial slurs with no though give to them. so it was pretty easy for all that shit catch in to you. when I grew up a bit and started hangik out in the closest city I quickly stopped all of that shit. I was never racist by heart or hateful towards minorities but all that joking and slurring was so normalized that I didn't really give it a thought until I actually started thinking independently.
I feel sad towards some of the people I used to know who are now young adults and still live there doing the same bullshit and being actually racists
That is what it was like in the UK in the 1950s and 1960s. Unless you lived in one of the major cities,which was like four cities at the time, you didn't really see anyone who wasn't Caucasian.
It wasn't racism, it was ignorance.
Racism doesn't have to be malicious. It is often caused by ignorance
Have one of those quesadillas though and you'll be even more not racist
But not more than one, unless you want to do the Gandhi underflow.
I did have one once. Unfortunately I didn't measure my pre and post racism levels so I'm not sure if it helped or not. Also it was made by a large overweight man so perhaps it didn't have the full effect.
I was never racist but i sure was bigoted. It took introspection, which is hard
You know what else is hard?
My mom!
Living a life of anger and fear?
Or is this a penis joke 🤣
Making a joke about anon's reaction to the video
My dick when I see a latina mom
Mine started by living and going to school with them. How odd.
Dude school is rough. By the time I got out I was racist af. Took a long time to work through that shit.
I had friends growing up from various races, my wife is from another race, and I work with other races. I still catch myself sometimes not treating people equally. It's really easy to prefer someone that looks like me over someone who doesn't.
Yeah, that's apparently the prevailing opinion, hence why I wrote the last two sentences.
Don't assume you're "not racist" just because you treat some people well. It's really easy to treat people differently just based on appearances, so watch yourselves. I assume I'm better than most because I get angry a lot at stupid stuff I overhear, but then my wife catches me saying something stupid sometimes. Nobody's perfect.
It's subconscious.
I work with people from a variety of countries, and I naturally gravitate toward people from my own. We share the same cultural background, have the same accent, and have similar skin tones. So I go out of my way to correct that.
I'm a manager, so when I look at promotions, I have to take a minute to write down the pros/cons to justify a promotion to help counter that bias. I also try to spend more time (lunches, water-cooler type discussions, etc) with those who are different from me as well, otherwise I'd naturally cluster with those who are more similar to me. I notice it in the people from other cultures as well, they tend to cluster with those that are similar to them as well, so hopefully me being proactive encourages them to reciprocate.
At least that's how I see it, and it seems to be working out alright.
Don't let racists have tacos ✊
This is how fetishes are made...
I mean, if anything this is just more racism, but I'm happy anon is happy.
It would be great if this post would be accompanied by a Youtube link
My Latina mom was an abusive narcissist.
I had a white mother and got a wooden spoon. Always made me wonder if the chancla stereotype was for real? Also hope you recovered from your childhood 🙏❤️
:(
"I just love Latinas, Sonic."
Man, just be into moms without making it weird.
Fucking 4chan can’t even be into women their own age right
Basado
¿Pero dónde está el vídeo? Tengo, uhh... hambre.
No hay vídeo porque es todo mentira.
¡Ay, caramba!
¿Basado en qué?
Nunca me quedé claro en ese parte, ni en inglés
I need to end my racism too, anyone know where I can find this video?
Probably this https://youtu.be/6ZxOv5emrRg
My sense of diversity is rock hard now. Literally (figurative) diamonds
Amazing work. This is for sure the video.
I remember seeing some of her content previously, so I searched for "quesadilla" on YT. She wasn't too far down the list.
As a Brazilian, can confirm, latinas can be 😘👌 🔥
Just don't piss them off.
He already said they're fire
It's rather ironic how bad his English is. I'm seriously not quite sure what she did, does she literally just have a cooking recipe and somehow he's turned on by that. Not sure I want to understand.
He's a 4chan degenerate. Not much more to it.
A true degenerate couldn't have a wholesome racism-reversing epiphany experience like this.
Nah, you can be a degenerate in multiple different ways
A true degenerate is degenerate in every way.
Well I guess it's a start?
I've always been attracted to Hispanic women so... I had to confirm ops video, I started looking. I think I found it. Can confirm momma is muy Caliente. Racism is over
How you gonna say that and not post it
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9AYYU359EAW0pq4pHBw7wVpLOcWyFYjg?si=SqRBjd75pbY6z2Mo
Sorry new to lemmy
It's okay I found it later 🙂
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9AYYU359EAW0pq4pHBw7wVpLOcWyFYjg?si=SqRBjd75pbY6z2Mo
I shoulda popped some corn before entering the comment section to this.
Whew.
The comments below are like freshmen in highschool talking at the cafeteria table
Anon began lust 🤮
Boop beep I got delete.
Sociology would suggest otherwise. Xenophobia doesn't just exist without reason. It's just not the future we want to strive toward, in regard to human evolution.
EDIT: removed some unnecessary snark
Boop beep I got delete.
I considered an earnest response, until you tried to pull this little bit of manipulation. Instead I'll just block you and scamper off.
The greater issue is, racists like to sell their bigotry as rational, all while claim "real racism" is an irrational hatred of other races.
This way, they can just show a few statistics to justify their bigotry, but claim "anti-white racism" is real racism.
Boop beep I got delete.
You write like an obnoxious atheist
If you think God's real it's because you're a baby
I don't, I just think the kind of pseudo-intellectualism this guy was putting out was really typical of them. It's like vegans, they're right and insufferable about it.
oh I didn't actually read his post because some dipshit boop boop deleted it
Ye I figured that
Boop beep I got delete.
Do you mean arrogant? Because I don't think we're narcissistic anymore than we're self-assured
I'm not gonna try to convince you to change your mind, but I will say that a lot of us atheists hold similar beliefs in a strict sense within the scientific framework that makes us agnostics with every unknown. I think you've heard of people saying sarcastically that they're agnostic of the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, right?
In a practical sense we simply don't pretend that we need absolute certainty with an omniscient-level of understanding to read between the lines of the reality that's right in front of us. Take that as narcissism if you must, but there's no reason to be conflate being self-assured with a sweeping personality trait
E: Also, sorry in advance for typing like an obnoxious atheist
Boop beep I got delete.
Do your farts smell nice?
Boop beep I got delete.
I mean, you literally called the guy stupid and criticised the post for a "complete lack of logic": I agree with the other people that you write incredibly obnoxiously, especially if that's what you regard as "polite". Unfortunately claims of rationality can go hand-in-hand with a pseudo-intellectualism that is really grating when done in earnest.
Maybe rather than consider everyone else racist, you might do a bit of self-reflection and consider why people who clearly acknowledge that the main post is racist (see every other upvoted comment) still consider your post worse than the racism you're criticising.
IfBoop beep I got delete.
I think you fail to understand that a lot of the people replying to you are solely replying because of your tone. You're not winning any argument against anyone because all they're telling you is that you're obnoxious. You can't spin that into a win over racist people because you need to recognise that people can agree with you and still treat you with hostility.
You're not standing up for anything by being volatile. The only reason why I'm even engaging with you on this is because of your original assumption that people who are making fun of the way you post must clearly be racists. If you can now agree that this is not substantively what they are talking about, and you are okay with that, then both of us can do without your moral grandstanding over how justified you are in doing this.
I just wanted to make sure you understood why people are treating you poorly, and will continue to treat you poorly into the future. These are not going to just be people who disagree with you. These will include people who agree, but think you're a real piece of shit.
Nobody's going to want to answer your "direct questions" or engage with your "assertions" (I'm leaving out "patience" because implicit in the idea of patience is manner, in which tone plays a big part and I still don't think you see it).
Does that mean you "win"? I think maybe everyone will be better off if you go away thinking you do, but no, it really doesn't.
This toxic way of thinking of needing to win conversations is also present in the first part of your anecdote where you claim that people used to "win" by asking you to calm down or stop using certain words. They're not trying to beat you, they're trying to engage in discourse that both sides can appreciate. If you literally cannot win an argument without resorting to namecalling or condescension, you really need to rethink the value proposition of your arguments.
And if you really think that you've won when people no longer want to engage with you, then, like I said before, maybe everyone is better off that way.
Agnosticism and atheism are not of the same kind. There exist agnostic or gnostic atheists and there exist agnostic or gnostic theists. From what you write, you are an agnostic atheist: You do not believe in a god, yet you can not be sure that there is none.
Boop beep I got delete.
ACKCHYUALLY, it's ethnicism, we're all part of the human race.
I guess unless you're such an ethnicist you don't believe those other people are human?
I love Mexican food so much though; Latina moms too! ❤️
Is that too far off from what a racist thinks?
I don't know, that's why it's a guess.
It's wrong either way, since you can just DNA test the theory.