Speaking from general life experience, a lot of those fans are potential victims of the same treatment themselves minors/women
So if you have a child or friend that speaks like that, it is a red flag to pay closer attention to the people they build relationships with and their behavior. I'm not talking about protecting kids from drugs and sex, I mean protect them predators and abuse.
Fool me one, shame on you, fool me 35 times shame on... that's really the stance you want to take? Seems sus alright, but trust and verify is for cold war movies.
If none of the accusations go anywhere then yeah that's a bit sus on the case of the accusers. I get that those things are hard to prosecute but 35 cases and nothing to show for it? Sus.
And somehow none of them having nothing to show for it in court, hmm. I feel like that's less likely, considering how easy it is to accuse (especially anonymously). I guess it all depends on the what sort of accusations they are and how detailed, if the facts seem plausible etc. If it's 35 very credible accusations from people speaking out in their own name, uh oh, that sounds pretty bad. If it's 35 pretty vague seeming accusations on Twitter from anonymous accounts, ehh I'll definitely wait for something more concrete. And after all in court you'd only need one of them to succeed for all of them to seem credible, but with none of them succeeding, I'm starting to doubt the accusations.
It really comes down to ‘that’s the default setting for most of humanity.’
Here on Lemmy, we like to think we’re all very tolerant, enlightened, liberal minded people. But the outside world really isn’t quite as open minded. And there’s way more backwards troglodytes out there than we like to think.
When I found out about the guy from Crystal Castles 10 years after the fact... Yea major bummer. Sucks he's a POS and the things he's done, and the cherry on top is now I can't enjoy their music again.
…oh no. I’ve listened to him for ages. And due to a shitty shuffle I ended up with high listening hours. I remember his first handle and just told myself it was regarding the slang for cigarette. I’ll be going down this rabbit hole, thanks for the heads up
Rammstein isn't metal it's NDH. The Genre does have metal influence but you could just as well call it Industrial Punk (in particular in regards to Rammstein). There's plenty of groove metal in there if you know what to listen for but this doesn't sound anywhere close to Pantera.
I know rammstein isn’t metal. Lots of people consider them metal though. And I didn’t say they were right wing, but the band did get in a lot of trouble in the last few years over sexually abusing people. A lot of people. That’s why I asked.
And I didn’t say they were right wing, but the band did get in a lot of trouble in the last few years over sexually abusing people
It was alleged that. What's true is that there were plenty of 0-row aftershow parties with plenty of drugs and sex involving Till. Which is problematic in itself but as it seems (if we take the state attorney's conclusions as gospel truth) nothing non-consentual went on. What's left is allegations by two women who, as far as I'm aware, never themselves filed criminal complaints (which would expose them to possible false accusation charges).
What I took away from the whole thing is that Till is a creepy yet decent hedonist and it's good that he's got pushback over his behaviour, but it's also not a thing he should be crucified for. He's not 20-something any more, he should understand iffy consent mechanics when it comes to 20-something groupies better at his age.
Went to a metal concert last year for a huge, well known band. The number of punisher/warrior, thin blue line, militia-styled ragged flag, Gadsden shirts and hats was off the charts.
In my younger days metal was anti-authoritarianism, anti-cop, anti-conformity… now these clowns are the ones who want to be holding the riot batons, the body armor, and support the very fascists we hated.
I got plenty of grey hair, the crowd around me didn’t so I’m thinking there’s a generational shift to metal going fascist.
Your comment reminds me of Metallica many years ago. Their first albums were really good I thought. Then they cut their hair, their music started to sound more mainstream and I heard from friends that the band kind apologized for the anti war lyrics on their earlier albums. I guess money talks in strange ways.
Funny enough they still play those same anti-war songs off the early albums. Play what pays so they can ride around in their private jets.
Edit:
I did some digging. AJFA - One to most anyone objectively is about the horrors of war. The music video opens with the sounds and images of war. Lyrics say the war is done with the speaker in the story. It’s zero distance to understand that the person in the video suffered their wounds as a result of that war. The lyrics literally say a Landmine caused the wounds.
However, Hetfield walked back that imagery and the lyrics to mean:
In a Howard Stern Interview, James states that the song isn't inherently anti-war, but the lyrics were rather about the feeling of being trapped in your own body and feeling like you're unable to interact with the world around you and express yourself and speak your mind and feelings.
So it’s not an apology, he’s retconning the song to this instead of what pretty much everyone legitimately understood it to be about.
Also, regarding Don’t Tread On Me, what people associated with the Gadsden Flag:
Hetfield said the song was a reaction to the anti-American tone of their album ...And Justice for All - "This is the other side of that. America is a fucking good place. I definitely think that. And that feeling came about from touring a lot. You find out what you like about certain places and you find out why you live in America, even with all the bad fucked-up shit. It's still the most happening place to hang out."
Hetfield also said "Don't Tread On Me, I love the song, but it shocked a lot of people, because everyone thought it was pro-war when they thought we were anti-war, and alls we're doing is writing songs, we're not standing politically on any side. "Don't Tread On Me" was just one of those 'don't fuck with us' songs, and obviously referencing the flag and the snake and what it meant, that all tied into the black album and the snake icon on the album cover, and I think it's great to play that song live. We're over here in Europe playing it, and people aren't appalled by the songs. We haven't played it in Iraq or Iran yet, though."
It sounds a lot to me like Hetfield is softballing pandering to right wing fans he doesn’t want to offend and/or personal beliefs that lean Right. He completely disregards the obvious anti-war sentiment in AJFA with “Oh, you all thought we were anti-war? We’re not pro-war, we’re pro-America.” If that isn’t some Chauvanistic Nationalism I don’t know what is.
Anyway, I don’t know one way or the other, but considering the crowd’s fashion choices at the event and his unwillingness to just say “war is bullshit”, which you can do apolitically, I figure Metallica, or at least Hetfield, support right wing ideologies.
E2: another interview where Hetfield says why he left the Bay Area:
*There was an elitist attitude there that if you weren’t their way politically, their way environmentally, all of that, that you were looked down upon. *
So by inference and the preponderance of evidence, he’s probably right wing.
You know you're in a room full of true metal heads when everyone has distinctly point to when metallica started to suck, especially if they all point to different albums.
Metallica died after Cliff died, that dude was the heart of the band. If you read up on Burton you'll find musical crossover with Martin of the great Faith No More.
In addition to 'One', don't forget the great 'Disposable Heroes'. Totally sold out with the Black Album and thereafter.
I know I'm not a "true metalhead" because I never cared about the culture, I only cared about the music. As far as I can tell, metallica still makes banger music. I am not an authority on this subject.
I'm not much of a metal head anymore but it was the first genre I was really into when I started developing my own taste in music.
They're not really for me but they're definitely still one of the biggest bands in the world with millions of fans and I'm not gonna tell all those people they don't have any taste in music you know? To each their own.
Right? Of all people our veterinarian wears a Mjölnir necklace…I had to do a triple take to make sure he wasn’t a supremacist asshole, but no, he’s a legit Norwegian who likes Nordic style in general. He wears a Dragestil belt with silver inlay, some tattoos too. Cool guy. Sad that my first thought was wondering if he was a nazi supremacist because the symbols have been usurped and corrupted.
As an Icelander who still practices the old customs this drives me nuts. These scum lack the basic imagination to come up with their own logos so they steal our symbols? Fuck that.
I just wish one of the Kardashians or some influencer would go big on Nordic symbology and bring it to the mainstream. Maybe it would lose its appeal to these fucks.
That's the thing, isn't it? All these extremists steal other people's stuff and corrupt it to their own purposes. Nazis did it. Religions did it. Supremacists are doing it with Nordic cultural symbols.
Yeah there are people who think (sterotypical) Vikings are their true "white" heritage and end up harassing anyone they don't like out of fanbases for viking-related bands. Heilung, for example, had to publicly state that those kind of people are not welcome after some of them were harrassing a woman for having the "wrong" skin color to be able to participate at one of their shows. These guys haven't yet figured out that their bigotry is the exact opposite beliefs of the vast majority of the pagan/viking/etc communities.
Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about Brothers of Metal's political position (or lack of)? They barely seem to have an online presence at all, like a ghost of sick riffs and cheesy viking costumes.
I find that whenever I go to metal shows, most people are very kind, polite and free of bigotry. Maybe what you're describing is a US thing, or maybe it's just that Metallica is a super mainstream band which attracts more dickheads than your average metal show.
I know metalheads have a history of gatekeeping, and keeping these fascists away from the scene should be priority #1.
I can only offer what I experienced at the show I attended. Metallica was touring with Five Finger Death Punch, a very much right-wing "military rock" band that just sucks IMO. They straight up dog whistled the right wingers in the crowd using a lot of "there's something wrong in this country" type of commentary. Metallica bringing them on tour doesn't really change my growing opinion that Metallica supports right wing ideology. My understanding of the greater Metal crowd is that they are indeed good people, I went to an Industrial Metal concert a few weeks back and it was free of the iconography I saw at the Metallica show, and everyone was great. We had a good time. It was also the loudest show I think I've ever been to. Thank goodness for earplugs, lol.
Yeah I think it was either before Metallica, or early days. I've tried to find a picture, but they've done a good job of scrubbing it from the Internet. I know my source is "trust me bro" at this point lol, but I swear I've seen it multiple times years ago
You’re right, it’s not to be found. Eh, after a little poking around they did a nazi salute, too. You can still see that image. Be willing to bet the swastika and salute were both “fuck you” for lols and not any personal affiliation.
Which creates a space where people with personal affiliations get away with it and gather.
And then when called out on their shit, tell the "for the lulz" crowd that people are coming for their freedom.
I've never understood the popularity of FFDP. "War is the Answer" is their best album by a heavy margin and it's just... Fine? Like it's listenable, I can listen to it without being bored. At the end of the day it makes me wish I was listening to Avenged Sevenfold, Shinedown, or Killswitch Engage.
But the rest of their music is unbelievably boring. Their covers of other people's music is their best work, probably because they can't write interesting music.
That's crazy, around here I saw a guy get his ass thrown out of a metal bar for having a burzum patch last month. They also forced a guy to either leave, invert his vest or remove a mayhem patch. The scene here is pretty intensely antifascist.
Considering the size of the crowd I don’t think anyone was throwing anyone out at the event I attended. I mentioned elsewhere that Five Finger Death Punch was part of the act, and they are absolutely right wing. Anyway, from the conversation here and the reading I did about Metallica/Hetfield, I’m forming the opinion that Metallica is different than the metal bands that everyone is talking about, partially because of their fame and visibility. They’re the rich old white men of Metal, and all the get off my lawn that goes with it.
Oh, I don't like metal and still considered them to be a mostly apolitical group of weird nerds. But it probably fits to the general trend of neonazis trying to infiltrate and overtake other subcultures. Oi! just doesn't draw large crowds I guess, probably Punk rock in general is not such a big thing anymore?
I was addressing that Neonazis usurped the Skinhead subculture for a long time. The skinhead subculture is part of the punkrock scene. Most of punkrock was always leftist though, at least here in Europe. I think you'll have to try hard to find a rightwing skinhead nowadays though. A switch towards Metal sounds like an almost natural thing for the neonazi scene. Metalfans should try their best to stop that or it might destroy the whole subculture.
Depends on what wave of skinheads you're talking about. Skinheads emerged in the UK in working class urban communities in the late sixties. They were influenced by the early sixties mod scene, the Jamaican rude boy scene, a strong identity towards their working class roots that alienated them against the government and the then middle class hippie lifestyle. As they were in working class areas in urban Britain, they were also rubbing shoulders with working class black people who brought with them their West Indian music and dress style. Ska Music and reggae were big influences on the tastes of first wave skinheads. In this way, it's ironic that the second wave of skinheads in the late seventies and beyond got involved with fascist politics, considering its working class multicultural roots.
I'm not sure you can say that skinheads were an offshoot of punk, at least not the first wave of skinheads, as skinheads predate punk by nearly a decade. As I mentioned above, the first skinheads were interested in ska, reggae and other music from West Indian roots. They were more an offshoot of the early sixties mods, with added interest in black working class styles and music.
The second wave came around when punk was in the ascendency in the late seventies, and that is where Oi music is based on. But Oi and the second wave's interest in fascism is certainly not what skinheads were originally about. The birth of Oi was convenient in a way for the likes of the fascist National Front in the UK, who were heavily recruiting amongst the skinheads in the late seventies, as it pulled skinheads away from that "problematic" (for the fascists) black music. I mean, there'd be a conflict of interest if you're heavily influenced by black music and styles and yet want to "send the foreigners back where they came from". In many ways Oi was a betrayal of the skinhead scene.
It's a bit muddy, it's been a few years since the whole skinhead/punk thing was more closely related. I do remember that there wasn't much visual difference between Punks and Skinheads unless you got the Punks were wearing their full getup with mohawks and basically had hair, whereas the skinheads really didn't, obviously because "skinhead". I always associated skinheads with being racists or nazi-types, but they also (at least in my experience here) were also anti-authority and often leaned hard into anarchy, too. So definitely some overlap with Punk.
I have no idea about the skinhead culture these days in the US, or what it aligns itself with. Can't imagine anyone affording a pair of Doc Martens, and plus they're low quality chinese made now.
I don't know if there's anything to be done at this point. There were 80,000-ish in attendance for the sold-out Metallica show. The people wearing right-wing stuff were everywhere, plus flying right wing thin blue line and Gadsden flags while tailgating in the venue parking lot.
AFAIK in France skinhead and Neonazi are basically synonymes, but I'm not big on this subculture thing, and this probably depends by country/language. But please don't go there calling yourself a skinhead lol
Yeah, as I said "Neonazis usurped the Skinhead subculture" in the 80s. There have always been apolitical and left wing skinheads, though. Nowadays the Skinhead subculture seems to be mostly dead (the whole punk scene has declined massively) and the few remaining appear to be almost completly apolitical and left wing.
It makes sense that those types would join the punk /metal scene. It's a scene made up of those on the fringes of society who are rebelling against authority (regardless of what that authority may be) and who are willing to accept anyone like them.
I've met plenty of LGBT, geeks, on the spectrum and otherwise different folk who are part of the punk and metal scenes.
I’ve met plenty of LGBT, geeks, on the spectrum, and otherwise different folk who are a part of the punk and metal scenes
Me too.
I was volunteering with an anarchist mutual aid group and one of the volunteers was wearing a punk war vest (idk if punks have their own term for it, I’m a metal head) with a variety of punk patches and queer buttons.
Maybe it’s just a symptom of only seeing shows in a city with a good radical scene, but most people I’ve met are completely normal and don’t have any concerning things like a punisher tattoo or a thin blue line shirt, etc.
It makes sense that those types would join the punk /metal scene.
They are since 40+ years, The skinhead subculture is part of the punk scene. And Neonazis usurped that subculture for a long time (not so much nowadays though).
To a lot of young people, myself included. The authority, or at least the authority we interact with- is progressive. So something like a thin blue line flag is rejecting that authority. Also the Gadsden flag has always been anti-authority.
I didn't say to everyone, I said to a lot of people that is the current dominant ideology from people in positions of authority that they interact with.
Yeah. To a lot of young, vulnerable people who are less minoritized, progressives feel like the authority. You're told you're privileged, but you don't feel it. This is partially because we take our personal experiences for granted, but also because even the relatively privileged struggle. Some people suffer more from the system than others, but a ton of things suck for everyone.
Unfortunately, the promises of the right are a monkey's paw at best, or a scam at worst. Even if the right succeeds, they usually make things worse for everyone in the process, even themselves.
Especially because average privilege accross a demographic says nothing of a given individuals privilege.
But I think that's not the only reason people feel this way, but also because for the people we interact with they are the authority. Most of my teachers were progressive, anti-capitalist, and ERFs(I don't know about trans exclusionary since they never talked about it)- but said ridiculous things like "men can't get raped". This might've been just my school, but especially amongst girls, anyone suspected of being "conservative" was bullied. I wasn't conservative but was pretty argumentative, and I have someone email my school email thanking me for saying what they wanted to say but were too scared to.
Remember for a lot of people my age, early 20s and late teens, when we were growing up people who made funny memes(like from our perspectives Alex Jones or whoever) were being banned while the inverse wasn't happening.
I went through a phase where I felt the exact same way. My upbringing was left wing and becoming more conservative felt like rebellion. I was never really that right wing, but I was convinced that conservatives must have some valid points. After all, how could half the country be wrong on almost everything?
Unfortunately for conservatives, I never stopped questioning, never stopped pushing ideas to their limits. In doing so, I independently came to many of the same left wing viewpoints I grew up with, only stronger and more resilient. I realized that my parents were actually right, while I was wrong.
More importantly, I realized that conservative ideas did make sense, but not at face value. Conservatives are inconsistent and contradictory because they aren't expressing their motivations explicitly. They often aren't aware of their actual reasoning, but there is logic behind their views. The logic is usually very cynical and cruel, dehumanizing people and valuing identity over principles.
I used to think somewhat like you, until I applied a critical lens to conservative ideas in the same way I had investigated familiar progressive ideas. Now I'm a trans woman who's farther left than every elected representative in congress. I still believe in almost all of the leftist ideas I was raised with, only I've pushed them farther than my parents ever did.
Right now you're critical of progressives, and often you spot valid flaws, but are you willing to continue? Are you willing to peer deeper into reality; to open your eyes to fundamental truths? That was my strategy, and it took me from naive progressive, to rebellious centrist, to the eventual woke queen I am today.
I continue to awaken to new truths, mostly because I like doing it. I like the feeling of discovery and understanding. Thanks to my efforts, I've found likely answers to humanity's biggest questions, raised my base happiness levels from constantly suicidal to never hopeless, and became way smarter than I thought I'd ever be. I think most people can learn what I've learned if they apply themselves, but it's still a tough journey. Are you willing to take it?
I appreciate you sharing, but I think you're misunderstanding me and what I was saying. I am not conservative, nor am I progressive. My point was just that progressivism was the dominant ideology of authority in most of my upbringing. Being the authority ideology doesn't inherently make it wrong, or its "designated opposition" right. I have a few fundamental values that are based(like I think deep down probably everyones) on my intuition and emotion. I then try to interpret how certain things align with those values. Its true that probably at least some of the basis for those values were initially rebelliousness- but that doesn't exactly make them wrong. I also don't know that I agree there is such a thing as a fundamental truth- but I'm curious what you are the likely answers to (and what are) humanity's biggest questions?
No, you're conservative. I don't like labeling my beliefs either, but being pro cop and antiprogressive is conservative. In reality, self proclaimed American conservatives want to change society to be more hierarchical and unfair, not keep things as is. If you're not applying pressure for reformation, selfish interests will cause backsliding. The battle will never end until humanity dies out. Good things require effort to maintain.
Another mistake you make is thinking progressives have more power than we do. The rich aren't progressive. Companies pandering to diverse customers aren't progressive, they're just making money by expanding their customer base. The right screams about companies being woke, but the companies are often act more right wing than they would be if they were only chasing profits.
Social media companies don't censor conservatives unfairly, instead they protect conservatives from the policies they implement to prevent brands from pulling advertising. The standards are higher for left wing causes in the mainstream media, as the rich people who own them are right wing. Accurate descriptions of reality in science and journalism tend to support progressives more than conservatives, with publications often introducing inaccuracies to prop up conservative positions.
My biggest problem when I thought like you was having an inaccurate view of left wingers as having power in society. Many agents that I thought were left wing actually weren't, instead only supporting left wing causes for personal gain. Empirical observations are almost always in opposition to right wing plans for improving society. Exclusively right wing plans never make things better for the weak; never.
If you want fundamental truths and answers to our biggest questions, read my comment history. This comment is already long enough.
being pro cop and antiprogressive is conservative.
I am neither of those things. And it's very condescending to assume you know what I am. Well it depends what "anti progressive" means, I support some progressive stances but oppose others.
If you're not applying pressure for reformation
Again, you don't know me.
The rich aren't progressive. Companies pandering to diverse customers aren't progressive
They may or may not be. I think it's wrong to assume companies aren't just made of people, and people may make some logical oversights of their beliefs to keep their standard of living and job.
Social media companies don't censor conservatives unfairly, instead they protect conservatives from the policies they implement to prevent brands from pulling advertising.
Why would brands pull their advertising? No person sees an Amazon ad on something dumb and thinks that means Amazon endorses that belief. There are however certain organizations such as the ADL that pressure companies into pulling their ads.
Accurate descriptions of reality in science and journalism tend to support progressives more than conservatives, with publications often introducing inaccuracies to prop up conservative positions.
This is true. Progressivism has a basic moral value of utilitarianism. Conservatism basic moral values are religion and tradition. Of course one of those has more evidence for it.
Many agents that I thought were left wing actually weren't, instead only supporting left wing causes for personal gain.
Well isn't that a lot of those out of power too? After all, one of the biggest criticism of poor Trump voters was that they were voting against their interest. They weren't voting for personal gain. Which would imply that at least some less conservative voters were convinced by that argument. Maybe no one votes in their interest, but at least conventional wisdom was the two wolves and a sheep saying.
Empirical observations are almost always in opposition to right wing plans for improving society.
You know, how you define improving society depends on your values. We probably agree on some parts of the definition and disagree on others.
Exclusively right wing plans never make things better for the weak; never.
That's not to mention the definitions of right and left wing tend to depend on the person.
The Youtube algorithm just showed me a video about that the other day. I didn't even know that they originally had nothing to do with being right-wing fascists.
My entire understanding of skinheads was "skinheads are fascists" and I never delved any deeper into it. Until the other month when my barber told me I should consider getting a chelsea cut, my gut reaction being "why would I want to look like a neonazi?"
But one simple online search later, and I went back for the shave. The original sentiment of the skinhead culture is slowly being reclaimed, though there will always be two potential interpretations of what someone with that style stands for, I'll happily rock my skinbird cut at union rallies and antifa protective counter-protests when actual nazis try to raid our local queer clubs.
Unfortunately any anti-establishment counter-culture movement that is predominantly white will attract Nazis. And these nazis sometimes don't even know they are one. You even see it in some far left movements. There are people in those movements who call themselves lefties yet have espoused right wing fascist ideology
to be fair, it doesn't help that some very prominent "leftist" "feminists"(see TERF) are signal boosting Nazis, or how for some reason we still allow tankies to call themselves leftists because of American Cold War propaganda (this 1950s-70s Cold War cartoon said the USSR are clearly left, since they are "communism", so anyone supporting these "communists" must also be a leftist!)
auth left looks like some form of highly self-regulating society, the problem is the inherent instability in this type of system almost always ends in auth right as a group of elites takes control, or breaks down into non-auth-left when motivation for said society dies down.
In addition to retaining many mod influences, early skinheads were very interested in Jamaican rude boy styles and culture, especially the music: ska, rocksteady, and early reggae (before the tempo slowed down and lyrics became focused on topics like black nationalism and the Rastafari movement).[1][12][13]
Which sort of implies it was a white people thing that was influenced by black culture but not when it was too black.
I have no real idea of the demographics though. I shave my head, but it's because I hate sitting in a barber chair making smalltalk and I save money not doing it.
Which sort of implies it was a white people thing that was influenced by black culture but not when it was too black.
I can see why you might think that from reading about it in 2024 but I'd suggest to you that the tempo slowdown is the major factor. Ska is an uptempo party music. Rocksteady slowed the tempo down and Reggae generally kept the tempo at that slower pace.
Also there was a progression of people leaving skinhead for rock following more high energy bands like The Who and The Small Faces and going through the psychedelic changes into Rock at the end of the sixties.
The fans of ska had no problem with reggae, especially Bob Marley, who was collaborating with Mick Jagger in no time. It's just they'd moved on from skinhead because the scene had become much more associated with violence. There was also the very deliberate efforts of the National Front to recruit football supporters during the early 70s heyday of football hooliganism. A lot of the people that were into violence were attracted to the second wave of skinhead just as cultural changes to the music in Jamaica and the UK meant that a lot of the first wave were evolving into mods and then some of them hippies and eventually you see the emergence of street punk at the end of the 70s.
As for Rastafarianism, that was not at the time a dogmatic religion like Catholicism or the Moonies but arose out of cultural immersion and community practice in the places in Jamaica where most of its adherents lived. I don't think it is a matter of being too black, it's just that it's very specific to Jamaica and eventually the Jamaican diaspora.
Edit: It's no accident that the third wave of skinhead was kickstarted by Two Tone and was explicitly multi-racial and also that Two Tone harked back to uptempo ska.
I HATE the small talk! My barber gives me a scalp massage too, really scratching it up, and that's just awful too. I've asked him not to do it but it's part of his routine and he does it automatically. My ideal barber would let me fall asleep in the chair.
Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures. Industrial, punk, goth, and so on. Subcultures attract people who don't feel like they have a place, and this is the group extremist groups target.
Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures
I don't know if I agree with that; well, I agree they're always a problem, but if you're a Jazz or Blues fan for example, I imagine there aren't the same issues we have in Metal.
They get the other side of the coin. Friend of mine has played harmonica for a long time, has played with/been in numerous blues bands. You will find a lot of heavily anti-white, black nationalism. Like the "we need to exterminate all white people for any chance at peace and prosperity" types.
As an ideology, black nationalism encompasses a diverse range of beliefs which have variously included forms of economic, political and cultural nationalism, or pan-nationalism.[9][7] It often overlaps with, but is distinguished from, similar concepts and movements such as Pan-Africanism, Ethiopianism, the back-to-Africa movement, Afrocentrism, Black Zionism, and Garveyism.[5] Critics of black nationalism say it promotes racial and ethnic nationalism, separatism and black supremacy, and they compare it to white nationalism and white supremacy. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center says that black nationalist groups exist in a "categorically different" environment than white nationalists in the United States.
I'm white, my dad (also white) played blues guitar, and I've never run into anything remotely like what you're describing.
And if it turns out that the SPLC was totally wrong, and 'Black Nationalism' takes over and commits genocide on white people, that's definitely something we'll be worried about.
Well your experience has been very different. He has been handed literature explaining how the prosperity of the african people can not exist in world with europeans and asians. My friend is not white, might be the difference here. He has run into numerous recruiters for this ideology in a number of different forms. Any form of ethnonationalism is bad. Just because where you live, it is a minority, and therefore isn't some eminent concern of going third reich, does not make it not bad.
After watching a video of a live show where Phil sang Walk with Sieg Heils injected into the lyrics, I wish I could just erase all my memories so that I could forget who he is.
When I used to have time to figure that out Metallica and Megadeth were still in their good phase, with 4 albums each. And no internet. There was like heavy metal, death, and eventually Nord or something. And these would cover any bands.
This is a tiny portion of black metal in a sub genre . But it isn’t surprising that an extreme genre with a strong counter culture doesn’t have some extreme spin-offs.
Also you can tell which bands are in NSBM because they are all terrible at actually making music.
Of course there are nazis bands, especially I'm black metal. But that's a minority, and they generally suck anyway. But I'm not into BM at all personally, so I don't bother tbh.
It’s not a majority, but it is a higher risk factor. Especially when Sweden/Finland produce a lot of metal bands and are also a higher risk factor for nazi sympathy - by and large they certainly don’t idealize them but they also aren’t always vilified to the same level as you might expect elsewhere
Yeah, and the aggression in music easily syncs with literal agreccion of the third reich, so it's a low-hanging fruit if you don't have other ideas for music and songs.
Lemme try:
Panzer death
Panzer death
Blood soaked brothers march
Panzer death
Panzer death
Glory to our patriarch
bonus points for samples of machinegun added to drums, lyrics in German, bandmembers photographed in pseudo-nazi uniform, etc.
Some idiots will listen that on repeat in no time
Edit: Listen to Hanzel und Gretel - SS Deathstar Supergalaktik, it covers most of the the cliches
Nazis are absolutely vilified in Sweden and Finland, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'd say NSBM bands is a lot more prevalent in Eastern Europe and Russia.
It's also something that's more related to some genres of music than others. It's definitely a much bigger issue in metal than you would find in, say, jazz or electronica. On the other hand, it's more overt than the kind of Nazis you find in country music, and they get much more publicized.
It's definitely a much bigger issue in metal than you would find in, say, jazz or electronica.
For a while, and I assume it continues today, there was/is a synth subgenre called fashwave, a Nazi-adjacent take on vaporwave. I imagine they have a niche elsewhere in the electro scene, and prob. industrial too?
The good ol’ American tradition of forcing squaredance onto kids in schools—I was a victim myself from the ‘80s to the mid ‘90s—was borne of the fear and disgust of the black and Jewish roots of jazz, with Hitler idol Henry Ford being a big advocate for it.
Yep, and one of the ways cannabis was demonized in the first half of the 20th century was by associating it with jazz culture, making it very much something that "they" did.
Gabber pretty much inherited all the Nazis Punks threw out of concerts and are, to their credit, also not terribly unlikely to throw them out of concerts. There's definitely infiltration going on when it comes to Dark Techno. When it comes to Jazz it shouldn't be too terribly fucking surprising that white supremacists don't like it. It was outlawed in the Third Reich, though they also produced their own for foreign propaganda purposes.
Reading these comments is making me sweat nervously because I made an 80s-themed submod for a racing game with era-appropriate metal music, and it seems that a decent chunk of the bands I chose for the soundtrack turned out to be fascist or fascist-sympathizing 😓
There isn't all that much out there about Brendon Small though and what I could find he should be a decent enough person....plus I liked Metalocalypse quite a bit, so that helps me 😁
Dunno much about Bryan Beller, Nili Brosh or Gene Hoglan, just saw a few random videos with them so hard to gauge.
Just listen to cattle decap. The morally superior band. Kidding. They're pretty great tho, more people should listen to cattle decapitation. Especially the later albums which are more approachable
Years ago, Brendan Small did a couple of characters on Comedy Bang Bang who, while being absolutely fucking hilarious and source of some of the top moments on the podcast, were kinda problematic, coming off as ethnic caricature. He quit doing those characters in 2017, for I think pretty obvious reasons, though I’m not sure whether anyone ever called him out on it. I assume it was similar to PFT’s rationale for dropping Ice-T from his own repertoire. In any event, you can take this however you will.
When I was like 13 and was learning to play guitar, I learned sooo many songs by Avenged Sevenfold. And then I saw pictures of them playing concerts with the confederate flag, and even had custom confederate flag guitars. I lived a pretty sheltered life and didn't quite understand how big of a deal that was at the time, but it definitely felt a little gross to me. I slowly stopped listening to them.
They did eventually come out and say that they regret doing that, for what it's worth. But I never went back to listening to them.
Saw a random YouTuber I thought I liked do a livestream. He usually does reactionary or random updates content.
I go in and he's ragging on Biden and I see people doing SuperChats with pro-Trump messages and just casual racism. Apparently, Biden's PR person probably should have been white according to these guys. I ducked out, was quite sad.
I don't think he's an out-and-out white supremacist, but one of the weirdest heel-turns ever was seeing actual Latino immigrant Tom Araya go from being the face of the evilest thrash metal band in the world to an outspoken evangelical Catholic MAGA-pilled Trump supporter.
I don't think it's uncommon unfortunately for immigrants who make their money to then move to the right of the political spectrum from a "I got mine" point of view. The right welcomes these new voices because they can point at them and say they aren't racist, and that there aren't systemic issues, not recognizing that the individual who was successful was so in spite of the barriers.
Yea as a Mexican whose lived in multiple states in Mexico patriarchy and conservatism is still very much alive, especially in smaller areas. It's getting better but it's still a very religious country. They suffer from much of the same things the US does when it comes with dealing with conservatives. Instead of it being about white power it's just about patriarchy and religion and good old conservatism. Doesn't help that a lot of the population is barely literate and many don't go to or graduate high school. In my experience, graduating high-school is seen like getting an associates degree In the US.
My own experience as an immigrant from a country - Portugal - which both is the source of lots of economic emigrants and nowadays takes in lots of economic immigrants, is that unlike the wunderlust kind of migrant (which tends to be open minded and hence to the left of the political spectrum), the economic kind tend to be significantly more to the right.
You can see that for Portugal in both how the traditional center-right (and in the last elections the far-right) gets a higher percentage of votes from emmigrants than they get in Portugal itself and amongst Brasilians (the largest foreign group by far) living in Portugal Bolsonaro got a signiticantly higher vote percentage in the last two elections than he did in Brasil.
I don't fully understand why it so. My theory is that it's a mix of the heightened nationalism that one gets when living abroad (worse for economic immigrants who felt forced to leave and miss a lot more all that they grew up with), the way many poor or working class people who never actually seen real wealth up close think they're "rich" when they make a bit more than their average countryman (same effect as how moderatelly successful shop owners with little formal education with modest background tend to turn into rightwingers) and that economic migrantes tend to be overwhelmingly be the ones with less formal education who feel much more pressure to leave their country due to low income that more highly educated countrymen.
I'd say yes. According to their German Wikipedia entry, they support Sea Shepherd, environment and wildlife protection, and indigenous people in their fight against deforestation.
i can remember back in the late 90/early 2000, that the right wingers pushed hard into the goth and metal scene here, looking for new recruits. it definitely felt like a targeted approach, and they did the same with the techno scene before (where they were mostly thrown out). they had more success in the folk scene, but they slowly gained ground over the last years. this sucks :-(
They didn't realize that most of the metal scene has connection with the punk scene, and the punk scene is full of anarchists and anti-fascists. It's weird how much success they had with the country music scene.
I was gonna say, I don't think metal has a higher rate of nazis. You look at country and you basically have to accept they're all MAGAts (another reason to just avoid country). I think most people in metal are pretty progressive, that's why they're in metal. Honestly Dero Goi is a great example: he jumped down a conservative rabbit hole and left metal.
If anything, it's just that the nazis are always a vocal minority and when they're into metal it's some confirmation bias for close minded people who don't like metal.
No, the issue is that metal has a lot of iconography which outright attracts Nazis and the like (e.g. heavy use of crosses, mentions of war and sometimes glorification of ancestry, viking culture, classically western icons like medieval knights and the Crusades, etc).
We have to push really hard against their co-opting of our symbols if we don't want "Skinheads: Metalic Boogaloo" to become a thing.
Going back ten years to people trying to explain away Kanye's BLKKK SKKN HEAD by pointing to the brief moment of time where skinheads weren't all Nazis is pretty funny now though.
I dunno anything about the Kanye incident, but skinheads started and there continue to be non racist skinheads everywhere. It wasn't a brief period of time at all.
I think he was more talented at galvanizing an audience than Himmler or Goering, and prettier to look at than Goebbels.
In the same way Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis will never draw the same crowds as Trump, The Dolph had that special sauce that congels people around a movement.
I can see a history in which Rosa Luxembourg was the firebrand that ignited a national movement but doesn't end up invading Poland over some delusional vision of a New Reich.
For a middleschooler? Sure. For an adult trying to pursue a career as a painter? Nah. IDK if he didn't draw guide lines with a pencil before painting or what, but that's pretty bad on an entirely technical level.
This is the one that hurts me the most. Iced Earth was one of my BIG jams during highschool. Demons and Wizards is probably why I got I to guitar. Hearing about his involvement on the 6th was rough.
I still listen to their stuff from time to time. Some of it has some actually good messages, and almost all of it is just good music. Really have to separate the art from the artist sometimes. I will never see them live, can't buy their merch, and typically find less-legitimate sources for the music, when I really want to listen, so at least I'm not supporting them.
Used to love Iced Earth's concept album retelling the early years of superhero Spawn, can't stand to listen to them now knowing that terrorist was a major part of it. Some people can separate the art and artist, or as a matter of degree able to look past some things but not others, but that's one I personally can't look past
It's hard to, for sure. I did love that album, and horror show lol. But yeah, it's impossible to support the Schaffer, for sure, but some of the music is just... Worth existing in the world still. /Shrug
I would say this problem mostly exists in black metal, and blackened subgenres. Not saying it doesn't exist in other metal genres, but it's much rarer.
Phil is a conservative, racist shitbag. He's completely shit on Pantera's legacy. And then he waited until the moment Vinnie died to go against Vinnie's famous wishes that nothing ever be called Pantera without Dime in it. He doesn't even have the decency to refer to the new band as a tribute in the name. Instead, he just calls it Pantera. What a shitty, disrespectful cunt. Phil has no redeeming qualities. He is an arrogant, self-serving, right-wing cockroach that should vanish into the ether.
99% of metal bands aren't nazi. The only way it's even kind of likely to find one accidentally is to delve into the depths of black metal, and even then it's not that common
Related question : is OOMPH fascist ? Their song “Europa” really worried me, so I stopped listening. But I only partially understand German, so I could be mistaken ? Can someone tell me ?
To me, Europa was mostly chastising the EU that despite its power, it was unable to be decisive and save refugees and migrants who died, and the situation is killing the EU through the rise of fascism.
I mean:
And came from the outside
They come in droves
But you had no mercy
Dead bodies were floating on the sea
I think this is leftist criticism of the EU, if anything.
Listen to their new album, Richter und Henker, it will clear it up.
The titular song "Richter und Henker" is against populist-fascist movements, "Nur ein Mensch" is anti-nationalist, "Ein Kleines bisschen Glück" is anti-capitalist.
They are leftists through and through. Individually you could try and get them wrong, but together it's clear as day to me.
I mean lyrics like:
People follow the charlatan
Declare others lower than themselves
Eat from the hand
And call that resistance
or
We face each other
In the name of the nation
Brothers kill brothers
War is perversion
Blood doesn’t follow a flag
Blood has only one colour
You are exactly like me...
Just like me
or even
Wrath is just fear dressed in black
It is the curse of our times
and
We humans out here, how did we want to be?
Who makes our dreams, who plants them in us?
Who lives our life while we merely lead it?
Entangled in the duties that bind us tight
People must function in the depths of debt
Because what was hard fought for, they don't want to lose again
Because sweat, blood and tears, they were otherwise for nothing
But what we own also owns us
People look for a little bit of happiness
But that consumes them piece by piece
Because what you give never comes back
And that slowly sucks us dry
Europa looks like it's saying immigration is destroying Europe to me, although my German is not very good at all. However, Oomph apparently fired their original singer in 2021 after he went off the alt-right deep end, and Europa is from the last album before thst happened. I don't know what the new singer is like at all, but it does suggest that the rest of the band wanted to distance themselves from that
Hard to interpret from that song, the lyrics seem more critical of european imperialism and the response to immigration (shooting immigrant boats) than the opposite to me. I can't find anything about right wing lyrical themes in oomph songs from a quick google in german either, so I wouldn't worry I guess. Maybe someone knows more.
I don't know that I would agree. Bill Cosby was undeniably a brilliant and very funny comedian, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy his art now even if I pirated it. I know who he is.
So I think the only way I could just enjoy the art of a band that were all Nazis was to be ignorant of that fact.
As someone who has been betrayed by people who love me, I've come to the realisation that it's hard to boil down one horrific aspect of someone's character as their whole.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good -- and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
When I listen to Michael Jackson's Earth Song, I don't picture him fiddling with kids, I hear the sentiment of his words in that moment contributing to the green movement in which he inspired a new generation of activists (some exaggeration here, but you get what I mean).
Michael Jackson doesn't mention himself in his songs, he talks about other things and weaves stories that resonate with me on some level. In those moments, it doesn't matter who wrote those sentiments, I'm just happy that someone did and that they exist.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good – and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
So put Hitler's paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
When I listen to Michael Jackson’s Earth Song, I don’t picture him fiddling with kids
All I can say is that it's pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
Michael Jackson doesn’t mention himself in his songs
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn't you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
it doesn’t matter who wrote those sentiments
The person behind the sentiments absolutely do matter. If Trump says that rape is wrong, it's very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he's a rapist and she's a rape victim.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
If they're genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It's not like people don't listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
All I can say is that it’s pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I've never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always "I like this song" instead of "I like this whole album".
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn’t you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
I'm unsure what the accusation is here.
If Trump says that rape is wrong, it’s very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he’s a rapist and she’s a rape victim.
Show me the works of Trump that I can bend my knee and call him a master in a craft. Point to his degrees in sociology and political science that I can listen to his expert views on societal matters.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
If they're genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It's not like people don't listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
Dalí’s work is revered, and, while he didn’t partake in genocide, he was a Francoist ghoul who shouted “¡olé!” at the assassination of his friend Federico García Lorca by Nationalists.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I’ve never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always “I like this song” instead of “I like this whole album”.
Considering musicians usually put great care into constructing an album, often around a theme, many which tell a specific story, I'd say you're wired differently from the people whose music you listen to as well.
But your criterion seems to be "any atrocity an artist commits can be ignored as long as they are good enough at it." So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity? Is it based on number of Grammy wins or...?
Some put great care into them, others just stick a bunch of related songs onto an album and hope for the best. Pink Floyd's Animals is a terrible album full of tonally conflicting themes, but Sheep is one of my favourite Floyd songs of all time. You can pick a berry from a bush without having to scratch yourself on the brambles.
So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity?
If they have inspired derivative works, that are pro-humanist. Picasso was a horrible person, but his depiction of the Guernica definitely stirred a few minds to the atrocities happening at the time.
I see, so if I take a Hitler painting and satirize it so that it becomes a pro-humanist work, that makes his own work at a level of artistry where we can forgive his atrocities.
yeah i dislike the comic because it normalizes/encourages obsessively investigating the creators of your media to find out if they're Nazis. You should read about the author for its own sake because it's interesting, not feel compelled to do it.
The classical music world has been through this before, with Richard Wagner. Orchestras in Israel wouldn't play his music for decades, but eventually, even they relented. It's good music. Well, I mean, between the boring halves of hours, anyway, it's good music.
Red/Anarchist Black Metal. In response to NSBM, National Socialist Black Metal, RABM was formed, it's an umbrella term for outwardly leftist Black Metal as opposed to outwardly Nazi Black Metal. Marxists and Anarchists describe themselves as RABM if they want to signal their views faster.
I really don't know what you mean, it's an explicitly anti-sectarian umbrella of Marxists and Anarchists. Among them are Marxist-Leninists, Anarchists, Orthodox Marxists, even Libertarian Socialists and Market Socialists.
It's going to attract people under the umbrella of Socialism.
Just don't worry about it. Once upon a time a couple decades ago, we didn't know anything about musicians' private lives, other than what was released through their PR managers. It was a happier, simpler time. After years of being disappointed with the people whose work I respect, I finally just started avoiding learning anything about the people themselves. Of course people who are idolized by millions of other people, have unlimited money, and are surrounded by yes men are going to be cringe in one way or another. I don't want to hear about it, I want to enjoy my music.
Once upon a time a couple decades ago, we didn’t know anything about musicians’ private lives
Oh sure. Famously, nobody read tabloids or did muckrack journalism prior to 1990.
And there certainly wasn't a hotbed of right-wing media focused on outing popular musicians as gay or slandering artists for being minorities or women.
This is my take, too. Do I condone their shitbagged-ness? no. I'm not guilty by association for listening to their music, which is practically free to me, unless I identify with their lyrics and stuff.
There is nationalism: "our people are cooler, let's favour them, maybe we'll make it harder for others but we don't care", so there are legit parties with that views: conservators, protectionists, socialists (I don't refer to specific parties or movements, just a general inclination). I don't like them that much, but we shouldn't judge opinions, it's better to promote our own.
And there's nazism, which usually refers to an ideology like Hitler's: "yes, we are better, so let's kill everyone else or make them slaves", this is just pure evil, I leave it unexplained because it's really obvious.
I don't think socialism is about favouring one type of people, the definition is the ideology that prefers social ownership of property instead of private ownership of property.
That said, (neo-)nazism and nationalism differ in that nazism is also accompanied by (pseudo-scientific) racism, social-darwinism, and anti-communism.
So if you believe that people that look like you belong to a different race that is superior to others, and is destined to overcome other races of people through struggle, and that your nation belongs to your race, and that the best form of government in that nation is a strong hierarchy where the best lead through power, you are quite nazi-like IMO.
Socialists definitely don't value one group over another, they value literally the entirety of humanity. Supporting the Proletariat over the Bourgeoisie is more about property relations and class abolition than literally valuing Proletarians over Bourgeois.
Death of the Author is also about both intent and result. A catchy song about how fascism is cool is not the same as a fascist accidentally making anti-fascist arguments.
context also matters. Sure, I'm normally opposed to a song about how fascism is cool, but if it's from the OST of some Starship Troopers spinoff or a Warhammer 40k thing, I might be down for some satirical good times. You know, for the lulz of course.
Uh huh. That's why the Emperor keeps getting more awesome and right, just being held down by all his pesky traitorous generals and incompetent nobles, all their enemies actually do want to eradicate humanity, and the viewpoint character always sees some of the flaws in the system but don't you just know it, there's some Tyranids to fight!
GW has to say it's satire. They can't admit it stopped somewhere and became an earnest story, as all satire that goes on for too long tends to do, because admitting that means admitting they make piles of cash from a fascist property.
Like, for real, bro. The "Hope" of the Imperium was the return of Roboute Guilliman, a Roman coded god-king.
That's stupid. Metal is fun, and Nazis don't own it, nor can they take it away from the vast majority of good people who play it and enjoy it. It has a bad rap from Satanic panic era bible-thumpers.
You wanna ban classical music? The OG Nazis loved that shit.
Oh what's this? Allegations by... 35 women?
God dammit.
Bonus points for his fans shouting about how he wasn't convicted so "He was totally cleared of all that, they're just jealous psychos!"
Because everyone knows sexual assault is notoriously well dealt with.
Speaking from general life experience, a lot of those fans are
potential victims of the same treatment themselvesminors/womenSo if you have a child or friend that speaks like that, it is a red flag to pay closer attention to the people they build relationships with and their behavior. I'm not talking about protecting kids from drugs and sex, I mean protect them predators and abuse.
True. I have a lot of friends who dated abusers AFTER they abused someone else, and parrotted the "his ex was a psycho and made it all up" line.
Sometimes the ex is a psycho, but like 99% of the time they aren't.
I mean, if none of the 35 allegations actually go anywhere, I'm not going to assume they actually did something either. Seems sus on all accounts.
Fool me one, shame on you, fool me 35 times shame on... that's really the stance you want to take? Seems sus alright, but trust and verify is for cold war movies.
If none of the accusations go anywhere then yeah that's a bit sus on the case of the accusers. I get that those things are hard to prosecute but 35 cases and nothing to show for it? Sus.
If 35 different people say they were sexually assaulted by someone then the chances that all of them are untrue is miniscule.
And somehow none of them having nothing to show for it in court, hmm. I feel like that's less likely, considering how easy it is to accuse (especially anonymously). I guess it all depends on the what sort of accusations they are and how detailed, if the facts seem plausible etc. If it's 35 very credible accusations from people speaking out in their own name, uh oh, that sounds pretty bad. If it's 35 pretty vague seeming accusations on Twitter from anonymous accounts, ehh I'll definitely wait for something more concrete. And after all in court you'd only need one of them to succeed for all of them to seem credible, but with none of them succeeding, I'm starting to doubt the accusations.
Yeah. I find that a lot in very disparate genres, too. I pretty much have to look up anyone I like more than a little now.
Yeah, that one sucks. I really liked what he was doing, but... you know... those crazy South Africans.
Oh, thought you meant those other crazy South Africans.
There are just so many to choose from.
I knew exactly who you were linking to before I clicked, mans like the new Rick roll fr.
NOOOOOO! God damnit, every time. Why!?
It really comes down to ‘that’s the default setting for most of humanity.’
Here on Lemmy, we like to think we’re all very tolerant, enlightened, liberal minded people. But the outside world really isn’t quite as open minded. And there’s way more backwards troglodytes out there than we like to think.
Troglodytes you say? Hmm… sounds like a case for TROGDOOOOOOORRRR!!!!
BURNINATING THE COUNTRYSIDE, BURNINATING THE FASCISTS.. AND THEIR MUSHROOM COTTAGES!
He met the enemy, and it was...him?
I mean, he started out on YouTube with the name “Fa**otron”, that got my alarm bells ringing from the outset.
To be fair, a Fagott is the German/European name for this instrument:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassoon
Though I'd say it is pretty obvious why they named themselves that, and its probably not because they can play that thing.
Very important to note there is one "g" in fagott. The number of "t"s can vary by language, but it's always one "g".
I didn’t know that! Also looking up his old handle from another source does indeed confirm that his old handle used just one g.
Still fucking sus though. Especially as he’s a remix artist.
When I found out about the guy from Crystal Castles 10 years after the fact... Yea major bummer. Sucks he's a POS and the things he's done, and the cherry on top is now I can't enjoy their music again.
Never meet your heros
Fuck, I remember the news with Alice Glass’ allegations back when they came out, but I wasn’t aware there were others, and they were underage.
Alice is still making music, no reason not to support her as far as I know.
…oh no. I’ve listened to him for ages. And due to a shitty shuffle I ended up with high listening hours. I remember his first handle and just told myself it was regarding the slang for cigarette. I’ll be going down this rabbit hole, thanks for the heads up
Not metal, but Ghost Mice really shocked me. The guy was like "yeah I did that shit, sorry" and was just never seen again.
Is this about Rammstein?
Rammstein isn't metal it's NDH. The Genre does have metal influence but you could just as well call it Industrial Punk (in particular in regards to Rammstein). There's plenty of groove metal in there if you know what to listen for but this doesn't sound anywhere close to Pantera.
And if Rammstein being a bunch of Punks with way too much artistic concept wasn't enough you have to literally ignore their Discography to think they're right-wing.
I know rammstein isn’t metal. Lots of people consider them metal though. And I didn’t say they were right wing, but the band did get in a lot of trouble in the last few years over sexually abusing people. A lot of people. That’s why I asked.
It was alleged that. What's true is that there were plenty of 0-row aftershow parties with plenty of drugs and sex involving Till. Which is problematic in itself but as it seems (if we take the state attorney's conclusions as gospel truth) nothing non-consentual went on. What's left is allegations by two women who, as far as I'm aware, never themselves filed criminal complaints (which would expose them to possible false accusation charges).
What I took away from the whole thing is that Till is a creepy yet decent hedonist and it's good that he's got pushback over his behaviour, but it's also not a thing he should be crucified for. He's not 20-something any more, he should understand iffy consent mechanics when it comes to 20-something groupies better at his age.
Went to a metal concert last year for a huge, well known band. The number of punisher/warrior, thin blue line, militia-styled ragged flag, Gadsden shirts and hats was off the charts.
In my younger days metal was anti-authoritarianism, anti-cop, anti-conformity… now these clowns are the ones who want to be holding the riot batons, the body armor, and support the very fascists we hated.
I got plenty of grey hair, the crowd around me didn’t so I’m thinking there’s a generational shift to metal going fascist.
Yeah, the meme rings pretty true.
Your comment reminds me of Metallica many years ago. Their first albums were really good I thought. Then they cut their hair, their music started to sound more mainstream and I heard from friends that the band kind apologized for the anti war lyrics on their earlier albums. I guess money talks in strange ways.
That’s the band.
Funny enough they still play those same anti-war songs off the early albums. Play what pays so they can ride around in their private jets.
Edit:
I did some digging. AJFA - One to most anyone objectively is about the horrors of war. The music video opens with the sounds and images of war. Lyrics say the war is done with the speaker in the story. It’s zero distance to understand that the person in the video suffered their wounds as a result of that war. The lyrics literally say a Landmine caused the wounds.
However, Hetfield walked back that imagery and the lyrics to mean:
So it’s not an apology, he’s retconning the song to this instead of what pretty much everyone legitimately understood it to be about.
Also, regarding Don’t Tread On Me, what people associated with the Gadsden Flag:
It sounds a lot to me like Hetfield is softballing pandering to right wing fans he doesn’t want to offend and/or personal beliefs that lean Right. He completely disregards the obvious anti-war sentiment in AJFA with “Oh, you all thought we were anti-war? We’re not pro-war, we’re pro-America.” If that isn’t some Chauvanistic Nationalism I don’t know what is.
Anyway, I don’t know one way or the other, but considering the crowd’s fashion choices at the event and his unwillingness to just say “war is bullshit”, which you can do apolitically, I figure Metallica, or at least Hetfield, support right wing ideologies.
E2: another interview where Hetfield says why he left the Bay Area:
So by inference and the preponderance of evidence, he’s probably right wing.
One is not about the horrors of war, Mr. Hetfield? The song you wrote with lyrics that include
I guess it was one of those civilian peacetime landmines?
Most mines become civilian peacetime landmines!
“The Landmine of Life” - Hetfield
/s
Thanks for the edit, and thanks @[email protected] for commenting.
You know you're in a room full of true metal heads when everyone has distinctly point to when metallica started to suck, especially if they all point to different albums.
Metallica died after Cliff died, that dude was the heart of the band. If you read up on Burton you'll find musical crossover with Martin of the great Faith No More.
In addition to 'One', don't forget the great 'Disposable Heroes'. Totally sold out with the Black Album and thereafter.
I remember them getting haircuts and piercings and everyone being like "wtf?"
That and the Lars/Napster stuff really soured them for me.
I know I'm not a "true metalhead" because I never cared about the culture, I only cared about the music. As far as I can tell, metallica still makes banger music. I am not an authority on this subject.
I'm not much of a metal head anymore but it was the first genre I was really into when I started developing my own taste in music.
They're not really for me but they're definitely still one of the biggest bands in the world with millions of fans and I'm not gonna tell all those people they don't have any taste in music you know? To each their own.
There's still at least three good tracks on that album. It does mark a turning point.
Lot of metal recently using racist ideology, etc. Sucks that anything with a Celtic or Viking design has a racist vibe behind it now
Right? Of all people our veterinarian wears a Mjölnir necklace…I had to do a triple take to make sure he wasn’t a supremacist asshole, but no, he’s a legit Norwegian who likes Nordic style in general. He wears a Dragestil belt with silver inlay, some tattoos too. Cool guy. Sad that my first thought was wondering if he was a nazi supremacist because the symbols have been usurped and corrupted.
As an Icelander who still practices the old customs this drives me nuts. These scum lack the basic imagination to come up with their own logos so they steal our symbols? Fuck that.
I just wish one of the Kardashians or some influencer would go big on Nordic symbology and bring it to the mainstream. Maybe it would lose its appeal to these fucks.
That's the thing, isn't it? All these extremists steal other people's stuff and corrupt it to their own purposes. Nazis did it. Religions did it. Supremacists are doing it with Nordic cultural symbols.
Fucking posers, man...
And the silliest part is that Thor would fuck them up for this disrespect.
Yeah there are people who think (sterotypical) Vikings are their true "white" heritage and end up harassing anyone they don't like out of fanbases for viking-related bands. Heilung, for example, had to publicly state that those kind of people are not welcome after some of them were harrassing a woman for having the "wrong" skin color to be able to participate at one of their shows. These guys haven't yet figured out that their bigotry is the exact opposite beliefs of the vast majority of the pagan/viking/etc communities.
Is it bad that I find this reassuring? I love Heilung's music, but I've been too nervous to check out if they're Nazis. Now I don't have to worry.
Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about Brothers of Metal's political position (or lack of)? They barely seem to have an online presence at all, like a ghost of sick riffs and cheesy viking costumes.
I find that whenever I go to metal shows, most people are very kind, polite and free of bigotry. Maybe what you're describing is a US thing, or maybe it's just that Metallica is a super mainstream band which attracts more dickheads than your average metal show.
I know metalheads have a history of gatekeeping, and keeping these fascists away from the scene should be priority #1.
I can only offer what I experienced at the show I attended. Metallica was touring with Five Finger Death Punch, a very much right-wing "military rock" band that just sucks IMO. They straight up dog whistled the right wingers in the crowd using a lot of "there's something wrong in this country" type of commentary. Metallica bringing them on tour doesn't really change my growing opinion that Metallica supports right wing ideology. My understanding of the greater Metal crowd is that they are indeed good people, I went to an Industrial Metal concert a few weeks back and it was free of the iconography I saw at the Metallica show, and everyone was great. We had a good time. It was also the loudest show I think I've ever been to. Thank goodness for earplugs, lol.
Sorry, but I just read "Five Finger Death Punch" and automatically thought "Ahhh there you go..." lol
Let's not forget that time their singer tried to murder his wife.
I mean, Kirk Hammet literally wore swastika shirts back in the day. I used to be a huge Metallica fan boy when I was younger but eesh.
No shit…I never knew that.
Yeah I think it was either before Metallica, or early days. I've tried to find a picture, but they've done a good job of scrubbing it from the Internet. I know my source is "trust me bro" at this point lol, but I swear I've seen it multiple times years ago
You’re right, it’s not to be found. Eh, after a little poking around they did a nazi salute, too. You can still see that image. Be willing to bet the swastika and salute were both “fuck you” for lols and not any personal affiliation.
E:typo
Which creates a space where people with personal affiliations get away with it and gather. And then when called out on their shit, tell the "for the lulz" crowd that people are coming for their freedom.
I've never understood the popularity of FFDP. "War is the Answer" is their best album by a heavy margin and it's just... Fine? Like it's listenable, I can listen to it without being bored. At the end of the day it makes me wish I was listening to Avenged Sevenfold, Shinedown, or Killswitch Engage.
But the rest of their music is unbelievably boring. Their covers of other people's music is their best work, probably because they can't write interesting music.
It’s performative. That’s why.
Sounds about right for James Hetfield. When off stage the dude is one of those Mossy Oak weirdos.
The clothing/camo? I’ve only ever seen him in California motorcycle kit - all black, Maltese crosses, flat-brimmed ball cap, etc.
Heh. Yeah I thought Metallica were anti "the man" when I was a teen but the Napster case showed me that they were the man
They’re just rich old white dudes and everything that goes with it.
That's crazy, around here I saw a guy get his ass thrown out of a metal bar for having a burzum patch last month. They also forced a guy to either leave, invert his vest or remove a mayhem patch. The scene here is pretty intensely antifascist.
Considering the size of the crowd I don’t think anyone was throwing anyone out at the event I attended. I mentioned elsewhere that Five Finger Death Punch was part of the act, and they are absolutely right wing. Anyway, from the conversation here and the reading I did about Metallica/Hetfield, I’m forming the opinion that Metallica is different than the metal bands that everyone is talking about, partially because of their fame and visibility. They’re the rich old white men of Metal, and all the get off my lawn that goes with it.
Oh, I don't like metal and still considered them to be a mostly apolitical group of weird nerds. But it probably fits to the general trend of neonazis trying to infiltrate and overtake other subcultures. Oi! just doesn't draw large crowds I guess, probably Punk rock in general is not such a big thing anymore?
Some Punk went mainstream, but even then I think Punk still holds on to that anti-authority ideology better. Greenday's recent commentary on the Right Wing stirred things up a bit.
I was addressing that Neonazis usurped the Skinhead subculture for a long time. The skinhead subculture is part of the punkrock scene. Most of punkrock was always leftist though, at least here in Europe. I think you'll have to try hard to find a rightwing skinhead nowadays though. A switch towards Metal sounds like an almost natural thing for the neonazi scene. Metalfans should try their best to stop that or it might destroy the whole subculture.
Depends on what wave of skinheads you're talking about. Skinheads emerged in the UK in working class urban communities in the late sixties. They were influenced by the early sixties mod scene, the Jamaican rude boy scene, a strong identity towards their working class roots that alienated them against the government and the then middle class hippie lifestyle. As they were in working class areas in urban Britain, they were also rubbing shoulders with working class black people who brought with them their West Indian music and dress style. Ska Music and reggae were big influences on the tastes of first wave skinheads. In this way, it's ironic that the second wave of skinheads in the late seventies and beyond got involved with fascist politics, considering its working class multicultural roots.
I'm not sure you can say that skinheads were an offshoot of punk, at least not the first wave of skinheads, as skinheads predate punk by nearly a decade. As I mentioned above, the first skinheads were interested in ska, reggae and other music from West Indian roots. They were more an offshoot of the early sixties mods, with added interest in black working class styles and music.
The second wave came around when punk was in the ascendency in the late seventies, and that is where Oi music is based on. But Oi and the second wave's interest in fascism is certainly not what skinheads were originally about. The birth of Oi was convenient in a way for the likes of the fascist National Front in the UK, who were heavily recruiting amongst the skinheads in the late seventies, as it pulled skinheads away from that "problematic" (for the fascists) black music. I mean, there'd be a conflict of interest if you're heavily influenced by black music and styles and yet want to "send the foreigners back where they came from". In many ways Oi was a betrayal of the skinhead scene.
Not too long ago it came to public attention that there were a lot of Republicans listening to Rage Against The Machine. Which is hilarious.
They don't seem to consider what anything means as long as it sounds white enough and has an angry enough tone.
It's a bit muddy, it's been a few years since the whole skinhead/punk thing was more closely related. I do remember that there wasn't much visual difference between Punks and Skinheads unless you got the Punks were wearing their full getup with mohawks and basically had hair, whereas the skinheads really didn't, obviously because "skinhead". I always associated skinheads with being racists or nazi-types, but they also (at least in my experience here) were also anti-authority and often leaned hard into anarchy, too. So definitely some overlap with Punk.
I have no idea about the skinhead culture these days in the US, or what it aligns itself with. Can't imagine anyone affording a pair of Doc Martens, and plus they're low quality chinese made now.
I don't know if there's anything to be done at this point. There were 80,000-ish in attendance for the sold-out Metallica show. The people wearing right-wing stuff were everywhere, plus flying right wing thin blue line and Gadsden flags while tailgating in the venue parking lot.
AFAIK in France skinhead and Neonazi are basically synonymes, but I'm not big on this subculture thing, and this probably depends by country/language. But please don't go there calling yourself a skinhead lol
Yeah, as I said "Neonazis usurped the Skinhead subculture" in the 80s. There have always been apolitical and left wing skinheads, though. Nowadays the Skinhead subculture seems to be mostly dead (the whole punk scene has declined massively) and the few remaining appear to be almost completly apolitical and left wing.
It makes sense that those types would join the punk /metal scene. It's a scene made up of those on the fringes of society who are rebelling against authority (regardless of what that authority may be) and who are willing to accept anyone like them.
I've met plenty of LGBT, geeks, on the spectrum and otherwise different folk who are part of the punk and metal scenes.
Me too.
I was volunteering with an anarchist mutual aid group and one of the volunteers was wearing a punk war vest (idk if punks have their own term for it, I’m a metal head) with a variety of punk patches and queer buttons.
Maybe it’s just a symptom of only seeing shows in a city with a good radical scene, but most people I’ve met are completely normal and don’t have any concerning things like a punisher tattoo or a thin blue line shirt, etc.
They are since 40+ years, The skinhead subculture is part of the punk scene. And Neonazis usurped that subculture for a long time (not so much nowadays though).
To a lot of young people, myself included. The authority, or at least the authority we interact with- is progressive. So something like a thin blue line flag is rejecting that authority. Also the Gadsden flag has always been anti-authority.
Yeah?
I didn't say to everyone, I said to a lot of people that is the current dominant ideology from people in positions of authority that they interact with.
Yeah. To a lot of young, vulnerable people who are less minoritized, progressives feel like the authority. You're told you're privileged, but you don't feel it. This is partially because we take our personal experiences for granted, but also because even the relatively privileged struggle. Some people suffer more from the system than others, but a ton of things suck for everyone.
Unfortunately, the promises of the right are a monkey's paw at best, or a scam at worst. Even if the right succeeds, they usually make things worse for everyone in the process, even themselves.
Especially because average privilege accross a demographic says nothing of a given individuals privilege.
But I think that's not the only reason people feel this way, but also because for the people we interact with they are the authority. Most of my teachers were progressive, anti-capitalist, and ERFs(I don't know about trans exclusionary since they never talked about it)- but said ridiculous things like "men can't get raped". This might've been just my school, but especially amongst girls, anyone suspected of being "conservative" was bullied. I wasn't conservative but was pretty argumentative, and I have someone email my school email thanking me for saying what they wanted to say but were too scared to.
Remember for a lot of people my age, early 20s and late teens, when we were growing up people who made funny memes(like from our perspectives Alex Jones or whoever) were being banned while the inverse wasn't happening.
I went through a phase where I felt the exact same way. My upbringing was left wing and becoming more conservative felt like rebellion. I was never really that right wing, but I was convinced that conservatives must have some valid points. After all, how could half the country be wrong on almost everything?
Unfortunately for conservatives, I never stopped questioning, never stopped pushing ideas to their limits. In doing so, I independently came to many of the same left wing viewpoints I grew up with, only stronger and more resilient. I realized that my parents were actually right, while I was wrong.
More importantly, I realized that conservative ideas did make sense, but not at face value. Conservatives are inconsistent and contradictory because they aren't expressing their motivations explicitly. They often aren't aware of their actual reasoning, but there is logic behind their views. The logic is usually very cynical and cruel, dehumanizing people and valuing identity over principles.
I used to think somewhat like you, until I applied a critical lens to conservative ideas in the same way I had investigated familiar progressive ideas. Now I'm a trans woman who's farther left than every elected representative in congress. I still believe in almost all of the leftist ideas I was raised with, only I've pushed them farther than my parents ever did.
Right now you're critical of progressives, and often you spot valid flaws, but are you willing to continue? Are you willing to peer deeper into reality; to open your eyes to fundamental truths? That was my strategy, and it took me from naive progressive, to rebellious centrist, to the eventual woke queen I am today.
I continue to awaken to new truths, mostly because I like doing it. I like the feeling of discovery and understanding. Thanks to my efforts, I've found likely answers to humanity's biggest questions, raised my base happiness levels from constantly suicidal to never hopeless, and became way smarter than I thought I'd ever be. I think most people can learn what I've learned if they apply themselves, but it's still a tough journey. Are you willing to take it?
I appreciate you sharing, but I think you're misunderstanding me and what I was saying. I am not conservative, nor am I progressive. My point was just that progressivism was the dominant ideology of authority in most of my upbringing. Being the authority ideology doesn't inherently make it wrong, or its "designated opposition" right. I have a few fundamental values that are based(like I think deep down probably everyones) on my intuition and emotion. I then try to interpret how certain things align with those values. Its true that probably at least some of the basis for those values were initially rebelliousness- but that doesn't exactly make them wrong. I also don't know that I agree there is such a thing as a fundamental truth- but I'm curious what you are the likely answers to (and what are) humanity's biggest questions?
No, you're conservative. I don't like labeling my beliefs either, but being pro cop and antiprogressive is conservative. In reality, self proclaimed American conservatives want to change society to be more hierarchical and unfair, not keep things as is. If you're not applying pressure for reformation, selfish interests will cause backsliding. The battle will never end until humanity dies out. Good things require effort to maintain.
Another mistake you make is thinking progressives have more power than we do. The rich aren't progressive. Companies pandering to diverse customers aren't progressive, they're just making money by expanding their customer base. The right screams about companies being woke, but the companies are often act more right wing than they would be if they were only chasing profits.
Social media companies don't censor conservatives unfairly, instead they protect conservatives from the policies they implement to prevent brands from pulling advertising. The standards are higher for left wing causes in the mainstream media, as the rich people who own them are right wing. Accurate descriptions of reality in science and journalism tend to support progressives more than conservatives, with publications often introducing inaccuracies to prop up conservative positions.
My biggest problem when I thought like you was having an inaccurate view of left wingers as having power in society. Many agents that I thought were left wing actually weren't, instead only supporting left wing causes for personal gain. Empirical observations are almost always in opposition to right wing plans for improving society. Exclusively right wing plans never make things better for the weak; never.
If you want fundamental truths and answers to our biggest questions, read my comment history. This comment is already long enough.
I am neither of those things. And it's very condescending to assume you know what I am. Well it depends what "anti progressive" means, I support some progressive stances but oppose others.
Again, you don't know me.
They may or may not be. I think it's wrong to assume companies aren't just made of people, and people may make some logical oversights of their beliefs to keep their standard of living and job.
Why would brands pull their advertising? No person sees an Amazon ad on something dumb and thinks that means Amazon endorses that belief. There are however certain organizations such as the ADL that pressure companies into pulling their ads.
This is true. Progressivism has a basic moral value of utilitarianism. Conservatism basic moral values are religion and tradition. Of course one of those has more evidence for it.
Well isn't that a lot of those out of power too? After all, one of the biggest criticism of poor Trump voters was that they were voting against their interest. They weren't voting for personal gain. Which would imply that at least some less conservative voters were convinced by that argument. Maybe no one votes in their interest, but at least conventional wisdom was the two wolves and a sheep saying.
You know, how you define improving society depends on your values. We probably agree on some parts of the definition and disagree on others.
That's not to mention the definitions of right and left wing tend to depend on the person.
Me hoping the new YouTuber I found hasn't tried to chat-up any underage girls.
Challenge: impossible
Lul you're not kidding. It's crazy to see how often you hear that happening and it happens with all sorts of youtubers not just weeb and gamers.
Nazis ruin everything. Just like how the Nazis ruined the skinhead subculture.
The Youtube algorithm just showed me a video about that the other day. I didn't even know that they originally had nothing to do with being right-wing fascists.
My entire understanding of skinheads was "skinheads are fascists" and I never delved any deeper into it. Until the other month when my barber told me I should consider getting a chelsea cut, my gut reaction being "why would I want to look like a neonazi?"
But one simple online search later, and I went back for the shave. The original sentiment of the skinhead culture is slowly being reclaimed, though there will always be two potential interpretations of what someone with that style stands for, I'll happily rock my skinbird cut at union rallies and antifa protective counter-protests when actual nazis try to raid our local queer clubs.
... Is google pulling up the wrong kind of Chelsea cut? You must have some interesting barbers lol.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=chelsea+cut&iax=images&ia=images
but that's bing 🤓☝
Unfortunately any anti-establishment counter-culture movement that is predominantly white will attract Nazis. And these nazis sometimes don't even know they are one. You even see it in some far left movements. There are people in those movements who call themselves lefties yet have espoused right wing fascist ideology
to be fair, it doesn't help that some very prominent "leftist" "feminists"(see TERF) are signal boosting Nazis, or how for some reason we still allow tankies to call themselves leftists because of American Cold War propaganda (this 1950s-70s Cold War cartoon said the USSR are clearly left, since they are "communism", so anyone supporting these "communists" must also be a leftist!)
Left Auth is a thing...
yup, there is, but tankies aren't it.
auth left looks like some form of highly self-regulating society, the problem is the inherent instability in this type of system almost always ends in auth right as a group of elites takes control, or breaks down into non-auth-left when motivation for said society dies down.
True
How predominantly white were the original skinheads? Because it was hugely Jamaican influenced.
For what it's worth, Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead
Which sort of implies it was a white people thing that was influenced by black culture but not when it was too black.
I have no real idea of the demographics though. I shave my head, but it's because I hate sitting in a barber chair making smalltalk and I save money not doing it.
I can see why you might think that from reading about it in 2024 but I'd suggest to you that the tempo slowdown is the major factor. Ska is an uptempo party music. Rocksteady slowed the tempo down and Reggae generally kept the tempo at that slower pace.
Also there was a progression of people leaving skinhead for rock following more high energy bands like The Who and The Small Faces and going through the psychedelic changes into Rock at the end of the sixties.
The fans of ska had no problem with reggae, especially Bob Marley, who was collaborating with Mick Jagger in no time. It's just they'd moved on from skinhead because the scene had become much more associated with violence. There was also the very deliberate efforts of the National Front to recruit football supporters during the early 70s heyday of football hooliganism. A lot of the people that were into violence were attracted to the second wave of skinhead just as cultural changes to the music in Jamaica and the UK meant that a lot of the first wave were evolving into mods and then some of them hippies and eventually you see the emergence of street punk at the end of the 70s.
As for Rastafarianism, that was not at the time a dogmatic religion like Catholicism or the Moonies but arose out of cultural immersion and community practice in the places in Jamaica where most of its adherents lived. I don't think it is a matter of being too black, it's just that it's very specific to Jamaica and eventually the Jamaican diaspora.
Edit: It's no accident that the third wave of skinhead was kickstarted by Two Tone and was explicitly multi-racial and also that Two Tone harked back to uptempo ska.
I HATE the small talk! My barber gives me a scalp massage too, really scratching it up, and that's just awful too. I've asked him not to do it but it's part of his routine and he does it automatically. My ideal barber would let me fall asleep in the chair.
I know people are saying it's a Black Metal issue, but uh... Pantera :(
Oh goddammit.
Yeah I can't even listen to 'Walk' anymore, fuck.
Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures. Industrial, punk, goth, and so on. Subcultures attract people who don't feel like they have a place, and this is the group extremist groups target.
I don't know if I agree with that; well, I agree they're always a problem, but if you're a Jazz or Blues fan for example, I imagine there aren't the same issues we have in Metal.
They get the other side of the coin. Friend of mine has played harmonica for a long time, has played with/been in numerous blues bands. You will find a lot of heavily anti-white, black nationalism. Like the "we need to exterminate all white people for any chance at peace and prosperity" types.
Last I checked, yes here it is:
As an ideology, black nationalism encompasses a diverse range of beliefs which have variously included forms of economic, political and cultural nationalism, or pan-nationalism.[9][7] It often overlaps with, but is distinguished from, similar concepts and movements such as Pan-Africanism, Ethiopianism, the back-to-Africa movement, Afrocentrism, Black Zionism, and Garveyism.[5] Critics of black nationalism say it promotes racial and ethnic nationalism, separatism and black supremacy, and they compare it to white nationalism and white supremacy. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center says that black nationalist groups exist in a "categorically different" environment than white nationalists in the United States.
I'm white, my dad (also white) played blues guitar, and I've never run into anything remotely like what you're describing.
And if it turns out that the SPLC was totally wrong, and 'Black Nationalism' takes over and commits genocide on white people, that's definitely something we'll be worried about.
Well your experience has been very different. He has been handed literature explaining how the prosperity of the african people can not exist in world with europeans and asians. My friend is not white, might be the difference here. He has run into numerous recruiters for this ideology in a number of different forms. Any form of ethnonationalism is bad. Just because where you live, it is a minority, and therefore isn't some eminent concern of going third reich, does not make it not bad.
I would've thought Dimebag's guitar would've given it away long before this.
ARE YOU TALKING TO ME?
MOTHERFUCKER!
RE
SPECT
WALK.
Sadly, no more will I be talking to Phil Anselmo.
After watching a video of a live show where Phil sang Walk with Sieg Heils injected into the lyrics, I wish I could just erase all my memories so that I could forget who he is.
Yeah, I wish you hadn't told me that, because now it's ruined for me too.
Metal bands are mostly nazis? Is that the news "satanic scare" like we had in the 80's?
Not metal generally, but you should look into Black Metal. It's a real problem there... :-/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Socialist_black_metal_bands
Lol, a lot of those names are a little too on the nose. I mean Kristalnacht and Infernall SS? Can't imagine making a wrong assumption on those
Yeah, already corrected it. Morning Rush.
That's why I stay away from these labels. Not against them, but I can't tell what is what.
It's generally not that hard, when you listen to metal.
Yeah, power and folk are good, anything else is bad. Easy.
/s
Pfff
When I used to have time to figure that out Metallica and Megadeth were still in their good phase, with 4 albums each. And no internet. There was like heavy metal, death, and eventually Nord or something. And these would cover any bands.
Sounds like trash and speed existed as well in your time. Black perhaps too, not sure if I'm remembering history well.
It certainly existed as a style, but not sure as a name. At least in my circles we didn't call them that.
This is a tiny portion of black metal in a sub genre . But it isn’t surprising that an extreme genre with a strong counter culture doesn’t have some extreme spin-offs.
Also you can tell which bands are in NSBM because they are all terrible at actually making music.
Of course there are nazis bands, especially I'm black metal. But that's a minority, and they generally suck anyway. But I'm not into BM at all personally, so I don't bother tbh.
It’s not a majority, but it is a higher risk factor. Especially when Sweden/Finland produce a lot of metal bands and are also a higher risk factor for nazi sympathy - by and large they certainly don’t idealize them but they also aren’t always vilified to the same level as you might expect elsewhere
Yeah, and the aggression in music easily syncs with literal agreccion of the third reich, so it's a low-hanging fruit if you don't have other ideas for music and songs. Lemme try:
Panzer death
Panzer death
Blood soaked brothers march
Panzer death
Panzer death
Glory to our patriarch
bonus points for samples of machinegun added to drums, lyrics in German, bandmembers photographed in pseudo-nazi uniform, etc.
Some idiots will listen that on repeat in no time
Edit: Listen to Hanzel und Gretel - SS Deathstar Supergalaktik, it covers most of the the cliches
Tried to find hints that SS Deathstar Supergalactic is parody. Found none. Help :(
Nazis are absolutely vilified in Sweden and Finland, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'd say NSBM bands is a lot more prevalent in Eastern Europe and Russia.
It's also something that's more related to some genres of music than others. It's definitely a much bigger issue in metal than you would find in, say, jazz or electronica. On the other hand, it's more overt than the kind of Nazis you find in country music, and they get much more publicized.
For a while, and I assume it continues today, there was/is a synth subgenre called fashwave, a Nazi-adjacent take on vaporwave. I imagine they have a niche elsewhere in the electro scene, and prob. industrial too?
Fascists have no culture of their own except violence, they have to steal everyone else's.
Well that's just lovely. I shouldn't be surprised.
Nazi Jazz
Hrm 🤔
There was a whole movie made about how the Nazis weren't all that into jazz.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108265/
Although they did record some as propaganda to play back at the west over the radio.
The good ol’ American tradition of forcing squaredance onto kids in schools—I was a victim myself from the ‘80s to the mid ‘90s—was borne of the fear and disgust of the black and Jewish roots of jazz, with Hitler idol Henry Ford being a big advocate for it.
Yep, and one of the ways cannabis was demonized in the first half of the 20th century was by associating it with jazz culture, making it very much something that "they" did.
Gabber pretty much inherited all the Nazis Punks threw out of concerts and are, to their credit, also not terribly unlikely to throw them out of concerts. There's definitely infiltration going on when it comes to Dark Techno. When it comes to Jazz it shouldn't be too terribly fucking surprising that white supremacists don't like it. It was outlawed in the Third Reich, though they also produced their own for foreign propaganda purposes.
Funny, I replied to someone else saying almost the exact same thing, but I couldn't remember the name of Charlie and his Orchestra. Thanks.
Someone else told me about the electronica thing earlier and I shouldn't have been surprised.
When I was in high school, the worry was finding a cool punk band and discovering they were skinheads.
People who listened to Lostprophets in 200X
I'd argue that the problem with Lost Prophets wasn't necessarily their political views though...
Yeah, it was entirely the music.
Oof
Never happened to me, but I also don't listen to metal.
Definitely did that with Sabaton
Reading these comments is making me sweat nervously because I made an 80s-themed submod for a racing game with era-appropriate metal music, and it seems that a decent chunk of the bands I chose for the soundtrack turned out to be fascist or fascist-sympathizing 😓
Bold of you to assume I know anything about the artists I listen to
Dethklok seems pretty safe.
There isn't all that much out there about Brendon Small though and what I could find he should be a decent enough person....plus I liked Metalocalypse quite a bit, so that helps me 😁
Dunno much about Bryan Beller, Nili Brosh or Gene Hoglan, just saw a few random videos with them so hard to gauge.
Gojira are environmental and humanist activists to a certain degree. At least in their music that is.
Plus they fucking rock, holy shit.
WHAAAAAAAAAALES
But yeah having a whole song about the Amazon burning that happens to also have some stellar riffs? Yeah I'm on board
Just listen to cattle decap. The morally superior band. Kidding. They're pretty great tho, more people should listen to cattle decapitation. Especially the later albums which are more approachable
That's an interesting take. I love Cattle Decapitation's old stuff but their newer stuff never really grabbed me.
Either way, to each their own. Cattle Decapitation is amazing either way!
Edit: I didn't see that you specified "more approachable". You're 100% correct in that. It's 5am here, sorry.
Brendon Small made Home Movies. He has to be a decent person. I will be very upset if he isn't. I may have to go poke him in the eye if he isn't.
Years ago, Brendan Small did a couple of characters on Comedy Bang Bang who, while being absolutely fucking hilarious and source of some of the top moments on the podcast, were kinda problematic, coming off as ethnic caricature. He quit doing those characters in 2017, for I think pretty obvious reasons, though I’m not sure whether anyone ever called him out on it. I assume it was similar to PFT’s rationale for dropping Ice-T from his own repertoire. In any event, you can take this however you will.
When I was like 13 and was learning to play guitar, I learned sooo many songs by Avenged Sevenfold. And then I saw pictures of them playing concerts with the confederate flag, and even had custom confederate flag guitars. I lived a pretty sheltered life and didn't quite understand how big of a deal that was at the time, but it definitely felt a little gross to me. I slowly stopped listening to them.
They did eventually come out and say that they regret doing that, for what it's worth. But I never went back to listening to them.
Saw a random YouTuber I thought I liked do a livestream. He usually does reactionary or random updates content.
I go in and he's ragging on Biden and I see people doing SuperChats with pro-Trump messages and just casual racism. Apparently, Biden's PR person probably should have been white according to these guys. I ducked out, was quite sad.
A few years ago I found this band I liked - then I saw they literally played a concert for the staff at Guantanamo. Man... that was sickening.
Did one or more of the members kill
A) themselves
B) another band member
C) Random strangers by burning down a church
Congratulations you're listening to old school Mayhem
Reading Varg's insanity on Twitter is a hoot.
Oh yeah. Real interesting dude
I don't think he's an out-and-out white supremacist, but one of the weirdest heel-turns ever was seeing actual Latino immigrant Tom Araya go from being the face of the evilest thrash metal band in the world to an outspoken evangelical Catholic MAGA-pilled Trump supporter.
I don't think it's uncommon unfortunately for immigrants who make their money to then move to the right of the political spectrum from a "I got mine" point of view. The right welcomes these new voices because they can point at them and say they aren't racist, and that there aren't systemic issues, not recognizing that the individual who was successful was so in spite of the barriers.
Yea as a Mexican whose lived in multiple states in Mexico patriarchy and conservatism is still very much alive, especially in smaller areas. It's getting better but it's still a very religious country. They suffer from much of the same things the US does when it comes with dealing with conservatives. Instead of it being about white power it's just about patriarchy and religion and good old conservatism. Doesn't help that a lot of the population is barely literate and many don't go to or graduate high school. In my experience, graduating high-school is seen like getting an associates degree In the US.
My own experience as an immigrant from a country - Portugal - which both is the source of lots of economic emigrants and nowadays takes in lots of economic immigrants, is that unlike the wunderlust kind of migrant (which tends to be open minded and hence to the left of the political spectrum), the economic kind tend to be significantly more to the right.
You can see that for Portugal in both how the traditional center-right (and in the last elections the far-right) gets a higher percentage of votes from emmigrants than they get in Portugal itself and amongst Brasilians (the largest foreign group by far) living in Portugal Bolsonaro got a signiticantly higher vote percentage in the last two elections than he did in Brasil.
I don't fully understand why it so. My theory is that it's a mix of the heightened nationalism that one gets when living abroad (worse for economic immigrants who felt forced to leave and miss a lot more all that they grew up with), the way many poor or working class people who never actually seen real wealth up close think they're "rich" when they make a bit more than their average countryman (same effect as how moderatelly successful shop owners with little formal education with modest background tend to turn into rightwingers) and that economic migrantes tend to be overwhelmingly be the ones with less formal education who feel much more pressure to leave their country due to low income that more highly educated countrymen.
Bruh, what?
No my clothes arent soaking wet, they are just well hydrated.
Is Sepultura safe?
I'd say yes. According to their German Wikipedia entry, they support Sea Shepherd, environment and wildlife protection, and indigenous people in their fight against deforestation.
Varg supports 90% of that and is also varg (they are probably fine I am just doing comedy)
Varg Vikernes or VARG the German metal band lol
I'd imagine he means Varg Vikernes. He's like the poster child for this whole problem going in the community, specifically the BM community.
OBG
Biboca, garagem, favela, porra!
i can remember back in the late 90/early 2000, that the right wingers pushed hard into the goth and metal scene here, looking for new recruits. it definitely felt like a targeted approach, and they did the same with the techno scene before (where they were mostly thrown out). they had more success in the folk scene, but they slowly gained ground over the last years. this sucks :-(
They didn't realize that most of the metal scene has connection with the punk scene, and the punk scene is full of anarchists and anti-fascists. It's weird how much success they had with the country music scene.
Who would have thought that country music, which originated in the South, would be so receptive to white nationalism??
Pre-9/11 and Toby Keith a lot of country music was anti-establishment and anti-fascist.
Some, but for every Phil Ochs there was a Marty Robbins.
Or even outright anarchist.
I was gonna say, I don't think metal has a higher rate of nazis. You look at country and you basically have to accept they're all MAGAts (another reason to just avoid country). I think most people in metal are pretty progressive, that's why they're in metal. Honestly Dero Goi is a great example: he jumped down a conservative rabbit hole and left metal.
If anything, it's just that the nazis are always a vocal minority and when they're into metal it's some confirmation bias for close minded people who don't like metal.
No, the issue is that metal has a lot of iconography which outright attracts Nazis and the like (e.g. heavy use of crosses, mentions of war and sometimes glorification of ancestry, viking culture, classically western icons like medieval knights and the Crusades, etc).
We have to push really hard against their co-opting of our symbols if we don't want "Skinheads: Metalic Boogaloo" to become a thing.
Who could forget the absolute renaissance of ultra-nationalist country songs that inundated the country after 9/11?
I was practically begging for some Big and Rich just to get people to stop playing that Ted Nugget slop, by the time I was out of college.
Well, they had plenty of success with skinheads before...
Going back ten years to people trying to explain away Kanye's BLKKK SKKN HEAD by pointing to the brief moment of time where skinheads weren't all Nazis is pretty funny now though.
I dunno anything about the Kanye incident, but skinheads started and there continue to be non racist skinheads everywhere. It wasn't a brief period of time at all.
Sure bro
Try reading, bro
Lol, sure bro
Ah got it. You're just a shitty troll
...or pedos.
Well, that's the entire music industry until 1990 right out
I can't be expected to research every individual in every band I listen to. That's hundreds, possibly thousands, of musicians.
Art and artist can be separated. I mean, even this painting shows technical merit?
Not enough to get him into art school.
Damn shame, in hindesight. A bit more mediocre art on the pile could have spared us the implosion of Central Europe.
There's definitely a timeline where he just paints paintings of government buildings to hang inside those buildings
Do you really believe that without hitler, the fascists wouldn't have found another leader?
I think he was more talented at galvanizing an audience than Himmler or Goering, and prettier to look at than Goebbels.
In the same way Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis will never draw the same crowds as Trump, The Dolph had that special sauce that congels people around a movement.
I can see a history in which Rosa Luxembourg was the firebrand that ignited a national movement but doesn't end up invading Poland over some delusional vision of a New Reich.
Hey that's actually not bad at all
That's some nice architectural art, who did that?
For a middleschooler? Sure. For an adult trying to pursue a career as a painter? Nah. IDK if he didn't draw guide lines with a pencil before painting or what, but that's pretty bad on an entirely technical level.
Please explain how that could only be good for a middle schooler because that is obviously someone who is extremely good at painting
pizzacakecomics just chimed in
That's why I just stick to the good ol' classics, like Blind Guardian, and the eventual indie group with 1 album to their name.
Yeah, Hansi left Demons & Wizards because Jon Schaffer was an insurrection loser. Good on him for leaving.
This is the one that hurts me the most. Iced Earth was one of my BIG jams during highschool. Demons and Wizards is probably why I got I to guitar. Hearing about his involvement on the 6th was rough.
I still listen to their stuff from time to time. Some of it has some actually good messages, and almost all of it is just good music. Really have to separate the art from the artist sometimes. I will never see them live, can't buy their merch, and typically find less-legitimate sources for the music, when I really want to listen, so at least I'm not supporting them.
Used to love Iced Earth's concept album retelling the early years of superhero Spawn, can't stand to listen to them now knowing that terrorist was a major part of it. Some people can separate the art and artist, or as a matter of degree able to look past some things but not others, but that's one I personally can't look past
It's hard to, for sure. I did love that album, and horror show lol. But yeah, it's impossible to support the Schaffer, for sure, but some of the music is just... Worth existing in the world still. /Shrug
Love me some Blind Guardian
I would say this problem mostly exists in black metal, and blackened subgenres. Not saying it doesn't exist in other metal genres, but it's much rarer.
I just consume
Pirate music made by fascists. So you could enjoy, and you money will not armed another violent racist militia
Based? Based.
sEpErAtE ThE aRtIsT fRoM tHe ArT
Wasn't there literally a metal singer named Herr Warcrimer
Probably, I dunno what pointing that out does though, unless you think that it means all metal is nazi
It's not, but clearly it is enough of a concern that people need to check...
The amount of rock musicians who are far-right homophobes is.. alarming pretty much any media with Kid Rock or Ted Nugent has aged like milk
I mean Satan's worshipper are fine... I've been to one of their meetings once. Tons of delicious cookies and great coffee ☕️🍪
Do I even fucking know what metal is anymore? Did I ever??? It was not always like this, not like this. .. ..... right?
Chances are the band is fine. Then again I get judged for Pantera 🤷♀️
Phil is a douche and actively harms Panteras legacy. The music is so good though.
Phil is a conservative, racist shitbag. He's completely shit on Pantera's legacy. And then he waited until the moment Vinnie died to go against Vinnie's famous wishes that nothing ever be called Pantera without Dime in it. He doesn't even have the decency to refer to the new band as a tribute in the name. Instead, he just calls it Pantera. What a shitty, disrespectful cunt. Phil has no redeeming qualities. He is an arrogant, self-serving, right-wing cockroach that should vanish into the ether.
This is very much a Slayer moment, except that reading the bands and the members, Hanneman's Araya's and King's wiki pages is quite a rollercoaster
Some verified non-nazi metal bands, of various sub genres.
Agriculture https://agriculturemusic.bandcamp.com/
Witch Fever https://www.witchfever.com/
Nuvolascura https://nuvolascura.bandcamp.com/
Genital Shame https://genitalshame.bandcamp.com/album/chronic-illness-wish
Gojira
I like Gojira too!
99% of metal bands aren't nazi. The only way it's even kind of likely to find one accidentally is to delve into the depths of black metal, and even then it's not that common
Unfortunately ot's a real risk. I myself listened to and liked Moonsorrow and Darkthrone before learning they are problematic.
Fortunately it appears that Summoning is alright.
When looking for Black Metal, I can recommend the Antifascist Black Metal Network Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtjazZuy6AJ0rRtZ5bligMA
Also there's Grimestone Records for Black Metal and some other miscellaneous stuff: https://grimestone.bandcamp.com/
Amazing! Cheers!
This is why I mostly listen to prog, they're all way too high to hate anyone.
Then you've got bands that died in the 80s while at the time too obscure to be asked about POTUS or PM. For example: Brocas Helm.
I hear rumours they were totally satanists, and I don't mean temple, but who knows what is true.
I just learned about the former band of Sam Totman and Herman Li Demoniac. I am still not sure what to make out of it.
Related question : is OOMPH fascist ? Their song “Europa” really worried me, so I stopped listening. But I only partially understand German, so I could be mistaken ? Can someone tell me ?
To me, Europa was mostly chastising the EU that despite its power, it was unable to be decisive and save refugees and migrants who died, and the situation is killing the EU through the rise of fascism.
I mean:
I think this is leftist criticism of the EU, if anything.
Listen to their new album, Richter und Henker, it will clear it up.
The titular song "Richter und Henker" is against populist-fascist movements, "Nur ein Mensch" is anti-nationalist, "Ein Kleines bisschen Glück" is anti-capitalist.
They are leftists through and through. Individually you could try and get them wrong, but together it's clear as day to me.
I mean lyrics like:
or
or even
and
Edits: formatting and another verse
Europa looks like it's saying immigration is destroying Europe to me, although my German is not very good at all. However, Oomph apparently fired their original singer in 2021 after he went off the alt-right deep end, and Europa is from the last album before thst happened. I don't know what the new singer is like at all, but it does suggest that the rest of the band wanted to distance themselves from that
Hard to interpret from that song, the lyrics seem more critical of european imperialism and the response to immigration (shooting immigrant boats) than the opposite to me. I can't find anything about right wing lyrical themes in oomph songs from a quick google in german either, so I wouldn't worry I guess. Maybe someone knows more.
https://youtu.be/eVVrGjhjXmk
If you've never paid a dime and have no friends to recommend music to, then you're not supporting the artist. Just enjoy the art.
I don't know that I would agree. Bill Cosby was undeniably a brilliant and very funny comedian, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy his art now even if I pirated it. I know who he is.
So I think the only way I could just enjoy the art of a band that were all Nazis was to be ignorant of that fact.
As someone who has been betrayed by people who love me, I've come to the realisation that it's hard to boil down one horrific aspect of someone's character as their whole.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good -- and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
When I listen to Michael Jackson's Earth Song, I don't picture him fiddling with kids, I hear the sentiment of his words in that moment contributing to the green movement in which he inspired a new generation of activists (some exaggeration here, but you get what I mean).
Michael Jackson doesn't mention himself in his songs, he talks about other things and weaves stories that resonate with me on some level. In those moments, it doesn't matter who wrote those sentiments, I'm just happy that someone did and that they exist.
So put Hitler's paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
All I can say is that it's pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn't you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
The person behind the sentiments absolutely do matter. If Trump says that rape is wrong, it's very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he's a rapist and she's a rape victim.
If they're genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It's not like people don't listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I've never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always "I like this song" instead of "I like this whole album".
I'm unsure what the accusation is here.
Show me the works of Trump that I can bend my knee and call him a master in a craft. Point to his degrees in sociology and political science that I can listen to his expert views on societal matters.
Dalí’s work is revered, and, while he didn’t partake in genocide, he was a Francoist ghoul who shouted “¡olé!” at the assassination of his friend Federico García Lorca by Nationalists.
Considering musicians usually put great care into constructing an album, often around a theme, many which tell a specific story, I'd say you're wired differently from the people whose music you listen to as well.
But your criterion seems to be "any atrocity an artist commits can be ignored as long as they are good enough at it." So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity? Is it based on number of Grammy wins or...?
Some put great care into them, others just stick a bunch of related songs onto an album and hope for the best. Pink Floyd's Animals is a terrible album full of tonally conflicting themes, but Sheep is one of my favourite Floyd songs of all time. You can pick a berry from a bush without having to scratch yourself on the brambles.
If they have inspired derivative works, that are pro-humanist. Picasso was a horrible person, but his depiction of the Guernica definitely stirred a few minds to the atrocities happening at the time.
I see, so if I take a Hitler painting and satirize it so that it becomes a pro-humanist work, that makes his own work at a level of artistry where we can forgive his atrocities.
yeah i dislike the comic because it normalizes/encourages obsessively investigating the creators of your media to find out if they're Nazis. You should read about the author for its own sake because it's interesting, not feel compelled to do it.
The classical music world has been through this before, with Richard Wagner. Orchestras in Israel wouldn't play his music for decades, but eventually, even they relented. It's good music. Well, I mean, between the boring halves of hours, anyway, it's good music.
RABM is nice to find non-shitheads.
What's RABM ?
Red/Anarchist Black Metal. In response to NSBM, National Socialist Black Metal, RABM was formed, it's an umbrella term for outwardly leftist Black Metal as opposed to outwardly Nazi Black Metal. Marxists and Anarchists describe themselves as RABM if they want to signal their views faster.
Panopticon is a good example.
Sounds like it would attract tankies
I really don't know what you mean, it's an explicitly anti-sectarian umbrella of Marxists and Anarchists. Among them are Marxist-Leninists, Anarchists, Orthodox Marxists, even Libertarian Socialists and Market Socialists.
It's going to attract people under the umbrella of Socialism.
Should probably be a community for these kinds of questions, but are Lucid Planet safe?
Just don't worry about it. Once upon a time a couple decades ago, we didn't know anything about musicians' private lives, other than what was released through their PR managers. It was a happier, simpler time. After years of being disappointed with the people whose work I respect, I finally just started avoiding learning anything about the people themselves. Of course people who are idolized by millions of other people, have unlimited money, and are surrounded by yes men are going to be cringe in one way or another. I don't want to hear about it, I want to enjoy my music.
Oh sure. Famously, nobody read tabloids or did muckrack journalism prior to 1990.
And there certainly wasn't a hotbed of right-wing media focused on outing popular musicians as gay or slandering artists for being minorities or women.
This is my take, too. Do I condone their shitbagged-ness? no. I'm not guilty by association for listening to their music, which is practically free to me, unless I identify with their lyrics and stuff.
Isn't Nazis a political party like Republicans?
Edit: goddamnit, do I really gotta "woosh!" All of you? Someone tell me you get it.
yes, but Nazism is also an ideology. The party is long gone but we still call people who believe in the ideology of Hitler Neo-Nazis or just Nazis
There is nationalism: "our people are cooler, let's favour them, maybe we'll make it harder for others but we don't care", so there are legit parties with that views: conservators, protectionists, socialists (I don't refer to specific parties or movements, just a general inclination). I don't like them that much, but we shouldn't judge opinions, it's better to promote our own.
And there's nazism, which usually refers to an ideology like Hitler's: "yes, we are better, so let's kill everyone else or make them slaves", this is just pure evil, I leave it unexplained because it's really obvious.
I don't think socialism is about favouring one type of people, the definition is the ideology that prefers social ownership of property instead of private ownership of property.
That said, (neo-)nazism and nationalism differ in that nazism is also accompanied by (pseudo-scientific) racism, social-darwinism, and anti-communism.
So if you believe that people that look like you belong to a different race that is superior to others, and is destined to overcome other races of people through struggle, and that your nation belongs to your race, and that the best form of government in that nation is a strong hierarchy where the best lead through power, you are quite nazi-like IMO.
Socialists definitely don't value one group over another, they value literally the entirety of humanity. Supporting the Proletariat over the Bourgeoisie is more about property relations and class abolition than literally valuing Proletarians over Bourgeois.
So is "Conservatives", but no one has a problem throwing that one around as a generic term, either.
I offer a solution: Death of the Author.
A good song is a good song, give no fucks about who made it.
That depends on how I'm getting the product. I'd rather not funnel money to nazis if at all possible.
🏴☠️
Death of the Author is also about both intent and result. A catchy song about how fascism is cool is not the same as a fascist accidentally making anti-fascist arguments.
Like how Orson Scott Card somehow wrote excellent science fiction about how blind xenophobia is bad.
context also matters. Sure, I'm normally opposed to a song about how fascism is cool, but if it's from the OST of some Starship Troopers spinoff or a Warhammer 40k thing, I might be down for some satirical good times. You know, for the lulz of course.
Warhammer hasn't been a satire in decades, but otherwise sure
According to Games Workshop, it is satire now and always has been.
Uh huh. That's why the Emperor keeps getting more awesome and right, just being held down by all his pesky traitorous generals and incompetent nobles, all their enemies actually do want to eradicate humanity, and the viewpoint character always sees some of the flaws in the system but don't you just know it, there's some Tyranids to fight!
GW has to say it's satire. They can't admit it stopped somewhere and became an earnest story, as all satire that goes on for too long tends to do, because admitting that means admitting they make piles of cash from a fascist property.
Like, for real, bro. The "Hope" of the Imperium was the return of Roboute Guilliman, a Roman coded god-king.
He's gonna Make the Imperium Great Again.
.......... You pay for music?
Maybe you should ask yourself why you like a lot of the media Nazis like.
"You know who else was a vegetarian!? That's right-"
I won't let nazi fucks take metal away from me
That's stupid. Metal is fun, and Nazis don't own it, nor can they take it away from the vast majority of good people who play it and enjoy it. It has a bad rap from Satanic panic era bible-thumpers.
You wanna ban classical music? The OG Nazis loved that shit.
Just research the bands you like.
If Hitler enjoyed eating pretzels, am I no longer allowed to enjoy a pretzel without being a Nazi?
What a pants on head stupid take.
Nazis like motorracing they like walking and probably enjoy breathing also...what the fuck is your point
Or you can not be a little crybaby