Spyke
greyw0lvreply
lemmy.ml

The black hole in the centre of the universe.

17
xenoclastreply
lemmy.world

Where's the center ?

Ps: i know the answer.. this was a joke

7
SorryQuickreply
lemmy.ca

Probably where the big bang was, aka the one point all galaxies are getting away from.

1

I believe the current theory is that the big bang happened everywhere equally, like a stretch, so there is no specific spot we can point to where it happened.

I wonder if Fido knows how to handle that in his calculations.

8
xenoclastreply
lemmy.world

Oh boy you're gonna have good time learning about the formation of spacetime!

I'll start you off. If space and time didn't exist before the big bang..

2

Yeah I read about it when the other guy responded.

Guess you can’t trust everything they tell you in school!

1
Daft_ishreply
lemmy.world

Is it though?

You've died, what's there to be afraid of? You're no longer a bag of chemicals what is there to feel?

-6
feddit.de

In the comic you are still conscious. Forever. Not being able to move in any direction, the universe around you slowly drifting away. You will be swallowed by the darkness between the stars for a hundred billion years, all the while fully aware that you are completely and utterly alone with your own thoughts.

27
Daft_ishreply
lemmy.world

I guess. If consciousness alone is that unpleasant to you.

-10
feddit.de

How long was the longest you have been alone with zero sensual input?

12
tetris11reply
lemmy.ml

There is the Great Ghost Cluster in the distant void, passing messages up and down its endless stream of ghost bodies in order to log world events at the speed of voice.

33
sopuli.xyz

This is actually an awesome writing prompt: The older ghosts get updates from the younger ones, and send stories back from their own lives, like a long telephone wire..

9
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

That story wouldn't get to the beginning of the line without being completely changed to be unrecognisable

3

That feels like practically a feature, when you have an eternity to fill and only a finite number of original stories with which to do so.

2
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

The spirit is already moving at the same speed and in the same direction as the earth when it exits the body.

23

That's a fair point. So then one might expect the ghost to continue their motion tangential to the orbit of the earth, and so they'll float away.

However, the theory of general relativity suggests that gravity isn't really like other forces. It doesn't push or pull anything at all; but rather its bends the fabric of time and space. Objects 'falling' due to gravity, or 'in orbit' around a planet are actually moving in a direct straight line in curved space-time. And this is why gravity still applies to massless objects such as light. So then, I'd say the ghost would still be affected by gravity - and that their main concern would be falling into the earth rather than drifting away.

12
braxy29reply
lemmy.world

😆 this comment really amused me, i guess the basic physics plus ghosts in the same matter-of-fact statement

9
hglmanreply
lemmy.ml

Nah, it won't be perfect. Some, tiny divergent velocity will exist.

1

Depends on if fell to your death or maybe crashed into something while driving uphill.

I’m imaging in all these jumpers passing each other in the earth’s core now.

1
enkersreply
sh.itjust.works

Would that not depend on your inertial frame? Like isn't the entire concept of being stationary relative to spacetime not an actual thing? I'm not trying to be pedantic, BTW, I literally don't know the answer to my question.

8
Klearreply
sh.itjust.works

Yup. Same as the time travel meme that was on the front page recently, this relies on there being a fixed inertial frame which is not a thing in our weird universe.

4
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

There might be one, but there is just no way of knowing

1
Psaldornreply
lemmy.world

Or you just maintain your velocity at death. With no other forces, that's the way you head forever

35
tetris11reply
lemmy.ml

But this character died stationary on the floor. Unless it's the Earth moving away from her as part of its normal orbit, in which case she'll get to visit it again soon

6
feddit.nl

No because the sun and the earth are always moving in a line and an orbit in addition to their orbit.

The actual absolute position would resemble a curving helix or something. Nothing in the universe is ever in the same general location twice for our current understanding. Everything is moving.

29
tetris11reply
lemmy.ml

We don't know if her drift axes are centered on the sun or not. I'm going to believe that they are

5
InputZeroreply
lemmy.ml

I love these discussions, they're not possible but I always learn something. Why would you believe that her drift axis is aligned with the sun and not the earth? What about the moon or Mars? Why do you think that the sun is special?

2
tetris11reply
lemmy.ml

The sun would be the natural parent coordinate system of Mars, Earth, and (grandparent of) The Moon. So I see her centered on either Earth, the Sun, the Centre of the Milkway, Centre of the Local Group, etc. etc.

The speed at which she drifted through the wall wasn't on level of thousands of km's per second, it was on the order of a few meters per second.

This would admittedly rule out the Sun, since the Earth has an orbital speed of 29 km/s around the sun[1], and a spin velocity of 0.5 km/s[2], giving a minimum of 28 km/s. If we factor in orbit of the sun from the Galactic Centre at 240 km/s, giving 240 +/ 29, which is still too high for our range. If we factor in the speed of the Galaxy, then we're just adding more zeroes.

What about the moon or Mars?

So, to come full circle on my comment: Yeah maybe, the relative speed of moon and Mars would be on the order of meters per second that we see in the panel. I just don't see why they of all planetary bodies would be chosen for ghosts, instead of other natural origins.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_orbit
2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_rotation#Angular_speed
3: https://www.universetoday.com/133414/distance-speed-suns-orbit-around-galactic-centre-measured/

5

Yeah I thought that too, if the spirit isn't gravitationally bound earth would move away from it considerably faster. This did get me to ask myself a good question. (This isn't it) What if we assume the spirit in the comic is dark matter and preserved any momentum at the time of death? So Earth's gravity is pulling on it but not enough to overcome the momentum the spirit had when it broke off from the body. The Sun and Earth could be special in that constructed situation. The question I thought was, does the electromagnetic, strong and weak forces have anything to do with keeping me planted on the planet?

2

Ghosts are not matter. Thus they must be energy. But they're still not massless. Uh uh, ghost wishes are like magnetism and uh...yeah, ghost wishes change axial drift, but only relative to things the spirit perceives as greater... fuck I need coffee to make this work.

2
ripcordreply
lemmy.world

Not exactly. Things are moving relative to each other, but it really is all relative and local. There's no central point in the universe that the earth is moving away from. The earth is moving relative to the sun. But relative to you, the earth isn't moving. Relative to the earth, the sun is moving.

There's no reason for her to move away from the earth unless she's being accelerated by something. It's not like the earth would zip away because it is moving relative to some distant, arbitrary point and she suddenly becomes "stationary". There's no universal "stationary".

I guess where it gets messy is that the earth IS being accelerated to some extent by different things (other planets, the moon, etc). I'm not sure how much. So if she didn't accelerate along with it at all, it would move away from her.

2
oce 🐆reply
jlai.lu

There’s no reason for her to move away from the earth unless she’s being accelerated by something.

Isn't the Earth accelerated by the Sun's gravity, while she isn't anymore? If yes, she would keep going straight while Earth keeps following its circular orbit, which is equivalent to her moving away from Earth.

5
Swedneckreply
discuss.tchncs.de

again, straight compared to what?

there is no center of the universe, nor a universal grid that things can reference. one of the most fundamental tenets of astrophysics is that everything is relative and statements like "travelling straight" are simply nonsensical unless you specify what it's travelling straight in relation to.

2

The... Earth and Sun.

Those are the reference frames.

You start by traveling with the Earth.
Gravity "turns off" for you.
The Earth then curves away as it orbits the Sun.

You just follow the tangent line.

1
ripcordreply
lemmy.world

You know...I believe you're right. If she somehow became totally massless.

Edit: no, as other people pointed out it doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't be "affected" by gravity even with no mass.

2

Edit: no, as other people pointed out it doesn’t make any sense that she wouldn’t be “affected” by gravity even with no mass.

That's the assumption in my comment: "while she isn’t anymore" accelerated by gravity. I think that's what we could infer from the trajectory on the comics.

1

I think the existence of ghosts at all implies at the least some sort of spiritual plane or dimension that they're partially in, or at the "worst" straight up magic wherein ghosts cannot interact with the physical world, even with gravity.

Being able to see may be part of that magic or a function of the spiritual plane as well.

That would, I think, be able to explain the events of the comic.

If instead we assume ghosts were entirely explainable by science, that could change things. We'd also have to account for the photons interacting with her and letting her see.

1
Anafabulareply
discuss.tchncs.de

If she is still affected by gravity, but passes through matter, she would immedietly fall through the floor and start orbiting the earth through the planet.

Without gravity she would no longer follow the earth's/sun's/etc. orbit.

3
Swedneckreply
discuss.tchncs.de

but the question is what would determine the trajectory then, there is no universal arbitrary straight line, that's a concept that just doesn't make sense under physics as we know it.

Even massless particles gain an effective mass and thus interact with gravity/spacetime; according to everything we've observed and calculated so far the only sensible result is acting like light does, and weakly interacting with gravity.

1

Well, yea, idk how moving through spacetime without following it's curvature would makes any sense. Which is what gravity is. Meaning the comic makes no sense.

3

If the only force no longer acting on her is gravity, she just instantly got a massive new vector

8
InputZeroreply
lemmy.ml

There absolutely is a coordinate system like that, in the comic it would be the spirit's coordinate system with them at the center. There actually is an absolute center of the universe and it is you and me, and everything else in the universe is at the center of it's universe (depending on your definition of the universe). That's what special relativity is all about, each thing is at the center of it's own universe and you have to translate any measurements between coordinate systems.

All the comic implies is that a sprit doesn't follow null geodesics, but that's general relativity.

10

There actually is an absolute center of the universe and it is you and me

I think that's the observable universe, not just a specific definition of the universe. I believe the consensus is that the observable universe is only a part of the universe centered on each observer, and there's no center to the "full" universe.

4
DrRatsoreply
lemmy.ml

I think they simply became totally massless and is no longer affected by gravity.

1
Klearreply
sh.itjust.works

Photons don't have mass, yet they are affected by gravity.

2
DrRatsoreply
lemmy.ml

Yea, you are right, I didn’t take the two extra seconds to think about it.

2
lemmy.world

I always thought it funny that traditional ghosts can go through walls but are held up by the floor. Finally some consistency.

34

They're just behaving as they've been taught ghosts are supposed to behave.

11

That's because floors aren't part of their finished business, but walls are.

8
hglmanreply
lemmy.ml

Just implies that ghost have some kind of interaction with gravity. Maybe ghosts make up dark matter.

7
lemmy.world

If you just had interaction with gravity, you'd fall through the floor.

6

The interaction is clear more complicated than just pulled down, it also causes interaction with normal matter but only in a direction of the acceleration from gravity.

1
lemmy.ml

Nothing is as terrifying as SpaceEngine.

Frankly. This… software rearranged my brain and changed me fundamentally.

There are no words to describe being lost in the 10^27 of space. It’s just too much, you will go insane and if you survive you will lose the ability to talk with people, lose every single thing that you thought matters. You will be alone even in the busiest of places, some part of you forever stuck in the 10^27 of emptiness between Galaxy Groups.

This isn’t a joke. Ignorance is bliss

33
leminal.space

So there's just a long ass trail of ghosts floating in space?

At least some sections would be heavily populated....

27
lemmy.world

No, because the solar system is moving together along the outer edge of the cosmos Milky Way. I don't know if there's anything such as a cosmic absolute frame of reference for "no motion", but (depending on what you're motionless in reference to) you would likely never see another soul.

3
HopFlopreply
discuss.tchncs.de

If you were killed in a mass-killing you'd have other ghosts near you though.

2

Odd how they chose gravity, but not the fact the earth is both rotating and revolving around the sun. Even more than that, the entire solar system is revolving around the center of our galaxy.

22
Epherareply
lemmy.ml

The way I interpreted it, is that gravity normally holds you on Earth despite all the effects you listed, and gravity not affecting this ghost, that's the problem.

18
lemmy.world

Thank you, just what I needed. More existential horror. 💀👍🏻

21

Well do catch up on SMBC if that's actually your objective. His bits are deeper on all that than anything I've read without some good drugs.

2

I always thought it was fun to imagine you are an immortal being and you get to walk around pranking people like jumping in front of a train but just bounce off or eating a sandwich with bleach but you are perfectly ok then one day the sun balloons and eventually the earth gets destroyed and you are wisked away then eventually trapped in the gravity well of a brown dwarf star and get sucked to the center for trillions of years.

18
hglmanreply
lemmy.ml

Space is a lot bigger than the death rate.

23
Zootreply
reddthat.com

Yeah but you're likely to die around the same time as another person. As long as you can float as fast as you could run, im sure you'd eventually find a partner....

10
hglmanreply
lemmy.ml

Assuming you float based on your last interaction with the matter before death, you would float off slowly in some random direction. So, while at first many would be near, you would eventually diverge into the nothing.

12

Agreed but like are we counting animals and who knows what the fuck is out there. Just working theoretically

3
Jankreply
literature.cafe

Provided that ghosts can even see or interact with other ghosts...

3
Jankreply
literature.cafe

We can't see them, so why do we assume they can see each other?

1
lemmy.world

Mine too but mine is slightly different and I'm gonna have to kill you now.

6

Wait wait wait, MY version of the religion says you must not kill because of differences in religion. We enforce this rule very strictly and with death.

2
lemmy.world

loses mind

gains ultimate power

becomes Azathoth:

"the ancient legends of Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws"

12
lemmy.world

So do they just maintain their initial velocity or would we have a chance to discover the static reference velocity of the universe?

Also they would still be affected by gravity if they still exist in space. Gravity is not a force that pulls objects together. It is merely the act of going straight in curved space. Either they are in that space and they are going to move along it within the shape of that space or they are not in that space. Though really if they just moved in a straight line with no external forces they are going to be subterranean because a real straight line in our space is down.

8

We're talking about ghosts here, we don't know what laws they follow. That said, either you are right or they would be miles far from earth before being able to finish that first sentence.

3
programming.dev

What if a ghost is affected by gravity but not other "fundamental" force in the standard model? This will raise a lot of interesting questions. Is... ghost dark matter?

6
Anticorpreply
lemmy.world

If the ghost is affected by gravity, but is able to pass through solid objects, then it will get sucked down into the core of the earth and burn forever. Which interestingly is what some people say is what happens.

14
Alsephinareply
lemmy.ml

I mean clearly not since gravity isn't affecting her

17
lemmy.world

This isn't just being alone. This is being in a black void for an incomprehensible amount of time.

9
lemmy.world

No, it isn't. You have not experience no stimulus what-so-ever, no living person has. Being alone is living without other people in your life. No one has experienced anything, even slightly comparable, to floating aimlessly through space, for a literal eternity.

3
Sam_Bassreply
lemmy.world

How is that not being alone? Corner logic eludes me

-1
lemmy.world

I said it's not just being alone. It is more than being alone, being alone is only part of it.

1

Being alone is being without other people. This is also being without physics. The universe would be expanding away from your location faster than the speed of light. There are just a lot of things to consider that go far beyond simply being alone.

1
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

There is a room they made to be as sensory free as possible. Walls with sound absorption cones and pitch black, that sort of thing.

The longest someone could bare it was 45 minutes.

And they could still hear their blood rushing inside their ear and their heartbeat. Here that wouldn't even be a thing.

No stimulus makes you go insane.

2
Iaparreply
feddit.de

But it wouldn't be a black void? My second thought was "where are all the stars?".

1
lemmy.world

if you were not affected by physics the universe would be expanding away from you faster than light.

1
Iaparreply
feddit.de

That may be true if, but it isn't the case in the comic or else the nanosecond she became a ghost she would be in the black void?

So either it is void in an instand or it is eternity in ever changing light? Like a kaleidoscope?

1

If you had a good telescope, or something passed you within relatively close range, from what I remember from school, you could see stuff. The red shifted light from galaxies moving away faster than the speed of light due to expansion could be seen with a really good telescope. If something passed within normal visible ranges you would see the object and blue to red shifts past you. Exactly what that would like is not really known.

You would see stuff initially, as like the solar system, then local light emitting bodies, grew further away from you, but you would spend most of your time in still blackness once the part of the universe you were in expands away to far for your eyes to pick up on the light. However I am not an astrophysicist, things might be different than I learned.

1
lemmy.world

Reminds me of an ending to a certain mediocre but entertaining Nathan Fielder HBO show. Wild finale that had nothing to do with the rest of the show.

2

I had a feeling, but I didn't want to assume you lived in 'murica since streaming services have become weird like that nowadays, trading shows on different services in different countries and such.

1