What are the bad patterns of Reddit to never repeat on Lemmy?
A few examples include s*x questions on askreddit, "this" comments, nolife powermods, jokes being more frequent than actual answers
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A few examples include s*x questions on askreddit, "this" comments, nolife powermods, jokes being more frequent than actual answers
Needlessly censoring words like sex. It wasn’t necessary on Reddit and it certainly isn’t necessary now.
Censorship like that was introduced to make the platform appealing to advertisers. I'd say just don't give power over how to run the platform to advertisers.
I find it absolutely mind blowing that people are generally accepting that as okay on most social media platforms.
I can only assume that people don’t understand why it was brought in on YouTube and TikTok in the first place because so many people do it when it isn’t remotely necessary. If you make your living posting on social media, then fair enough, I understand you need to fall inline with the rules of the platform. But why the hell would you self censor posts you don’t make money from? Utterly ridiculous.
All they know is that The Algorithm won't show their posts if they use those words. How anyone can understand that and not see how incredibly fucked up that is, though, I don't know.
I agree. It's absolutely absurd that would say something along the lines of "Fuck, I got r*ped, what do I do?"
I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't censor any words. If you feel the need to censor it, then just don't say it. If you want to discuss it, then be able to say it. You should be able to say something like "X called Y a nigger".
I'd say people worrying about Karma.
this /s
As someone who is incredibly tone deaf in written conversation, please don't get rid of the /s. It really does help
I don't agree,
/sis immensely useful for neurodivergent people, some of which cannot recognize sarcasm at all.Also, really often something that is "obvious sarcasm" for you is a genuinely held belief by someone online. Nothing is too ridiculous for the internet
Maybe internet forums aren't the best place for people that can't recognize context.
Why should we exclude neurodiverse people from a space when it's easy enough to make it accessible?
Apparently reddit and lemmy are the only places they socialize, so whatever.
No but they're here (and we should be being as inclusive as possible if we want Lemmy to be successful), so it makes no sense to shut the doors on them just because a couple of people don't like seeing /s .
Do you active dislike neurodiverse people or you just prefer to surround you only with people you can relate to?
Just because you don't care about certain groups of people who are not actively damaging for the world, that doesn't mean that they should be excluded from here.
Sadly, I understand your point, but feel that I need to remind you of Poe's Law. I think the /s is required because shit is all too real
Even the /s I wouldn't bring it here
I was going to post that you're lucky you included the /s, but I just realized we don't have karma so it doesn't matter anyways. Such a nice feeling...
Fuck that /s If you're unable to grasp context without it then just move on to a different discussion.
karma (or upvotes-downvotes aka simple karma) shouldn't be a reason to disallow someone from using a lemmy community
I don't know what form of karma Wander meant, but for me the "global karma" numbers are the worst part of reddit. People constantly posting stupid things or self-censoring to try to make number go up.
Requiring minimum positive karma is stupid when it can be gamed so easily.
Someone with very negative karma is likely a troll.
upvoted to give you more karma
What exactly was the karma problem? I never saw it being a huge issue
It becomes an issue if you imagine people on social media do what they do for karma in the same way people in real life do what they do for money.
In other words, if you have a deficient or extremely narrow theory of mind, you will think karna is the cause of everything
Is there even a total karma counter anywhere at all?
Not on Lemmy but there is on kbin (it's called "reputation", I think). I'm hoping it doesn't get implemented here, but I guess we can see if it negatively affects kbin content as we've got a direct comparison.
I think we need to give it some time. I was not there when Digg went bad but I'm assuming that in the early days of Reddit, there was a lot of discussion about Digg. Once Reddit reached a critical mass, posts about Digg died down.
There's a lot of discussion about Twitter imploding too. It's not just that it's an ex for most of us. It's also the tech implosion.
Also Meta wants to join the fediverse with Threads.
A lot of it is just people talking about their social media ex, but it IS part of a larger discussion about taking the internet back from corporations.
Wait, Threads is supposed to be a Fediverse thing? I'll admit, I kinda noped on it as soon as I heard Meta was behind it, but how does the Fediverse fit into all this?
exactly what happened but with the addition of some redditors being pissed off that we all jumped onto Reddit.
To make the ex metaphor. Talking shit about your ex is not productive but talking about what was wrong or didn't work can be very insightful. Entirely blocking your ex out of your mind is a pretty easy way to make the same mistakes again.
I can see why people think it's annoying but I think this is also a good thing. Talking about this helps people understand what they want to see in their communities or instances.
Pushing the metaphor even further, all my stuff isn't even moved out of the ex's house yet, so I'll probably want to keep talking about them until the situation is over. It's just going to take a little time.
It's the currently trending topic for pretty much everyone here. It will die down by itself eventually as it becomes old news.
I mean, a good chunk of the content on reddit came from Twitter or Facebook or 4chan, if not one of the many other sites that also scrape from those places. And after the Digg exodus, there was a lot of discussion about that too.
This is normal. This is just growing pains.
Obtuse comment, a vast majority of people have no self-awareness. Its good to discuss things.
It took years for Reddit to stop bitching about Digg all the time. Hopefully, we will get over this phase quicker than that.
For the moment, I personally find this feedback valuable. We are starting something new, and a part of figuring out what we want to look like is acknowledging what we don't want to look like.
This
Edit: Seems like people don't joke about this stuff here. Lesson learned.
There are; but this isn't even close to the right context where it even remotely works. Maybe if you did it on a comment saying "people who just reply 'this.'"
Censoring inoffensive words like sex.
Allowing racists and fascists a seat at the table under the guise of 'fairness' or 'free speech'. Reddit became polluted with far-right astroturfing in the last six years.
It is not tolerance to welcome those persons who seek to harm you.
We cannot tolerate intolerance.
That's a paradox. You cannot tolerate everything. That's why there's no such thing as not being bigoted. It's literally impossible to tolerate everything.
You just have to pick what things you're not going to tolerate. Now if only we could always agree on what that is.
Intolerance. Intolerance is the one thing you don't tolerate. It being a rhetorical paradox doesn't mean it's difficult to implement.
It absolutely is because there are things that you where you cannot tolerate both oposing viewpoints. There's also things that you do not want to tolerate.
Unless you believe it's not okay to be intolerant of murder.
I hope that helps illustrate how it's not just a rhetorical paradox. It's a conceptual one too. Much of the time, it's not tolerance vs intolerance. It's picking between two flavors of intolerance.
Well I mean if you're expanding the argument to things as well, then yeah, it becomes rather unwieldy. But if you constrain it to intolerance for people, then it remains rather simple.
Not at all. I'm not talking about just things. I'm also talking about about people.
It is not simple to determine the extent to which to tolerate different groups of people. Unless you're saying that you want to be equally tolerant of murderers, races, all religions, and people who like pineapple on pizza.
Murder falls under intolerance. Religion can exist without being intolerant, but often doesn't. The smell test really is pretty simple: if you're not actively hurting someone besides yourself, you should be tolerated. Along with that, we decide that intolerance for other reasons (ie, because of a person's genetic makeup or mode of expression) is itself harmful.
Now we can find tune and dicker about where that line of injury is, and of course there are special cases where the alleged hurt is spread around and it's hard to decide how to adjudicate that, but that's what the law and all its apparatus is for, after all.
Reddit was full of racists even back in the early 2010s. /r/Coontown was a prime example of that.
Whether or not it's tolerance isn't directly important.
The mistake that people make is assuming that tolerance is inherently good. It is to a certain degree, but there are many things that you do not want to tolerate. That's where we want to be.
However, many people think of themselves as tolerant and find it difficult to make that conceptual realization.
In the last 6 years? If anything, reddit got less tolerant of the far right since inception, it just became a bigger deal when they banned them in the last 6 years
You believe what you want to. Nothing I say is going to convince you, random internet person.
I had used reddit since the near beginning, and over time the prevalence of 'alternative facts' and other right-wing narratives has risen sharply. You also have communities like r/conservative that participate in open calls to violence and perpetuate right wing dogwhistles for maximum rage bait. The sheer slide of r/politicalcompassmemes going from people role-playing different ideologies to thinly-veiled alt-right propaganda speaks to this shift.
Catering to conservatives and right wing players results in the enshittification of the website.
I think that generally the internet got more of those types of people and they got louder, reddit used to have subreddits whose names were just slurs or subreddits blatantly dedicated to racism. The idea of a "dogwhistle" on reddit didn't exist because the racists just said and did racist things without fear of being banned.
Yeah, you're both right. There's less outright hate now, but more propaganda.
Political Compass Memes is the Fox News version of fair and balanced. It's intended to convert people with a thin veil of "both sides". And that thin veil will be enough for a lot of impressionable kids.
Well yeah, to continue with the fire metaphor, it's hard to put out a fire once you've already let it get out of hand. PLENTY of people were warning about those communities before they grew into the mob that stormed the capital, for example. Reddit only stepped in and did something about them when it became a bad look for them to let them keep shitting on the lawn.
Everyone should familiarize themselves with the paradox of tolerance if they haven't already.
what? reddit was an american "left" "look at how good of a person i am for hating on racists and pedophile" (like congrats?) circlejerk
the racists and fascists were contained in their subreddits and were ignorable
They shouldn't have even had those and they weren't 'contained'
maybe if you were actively looking for them or are very easy on the trigger of calling people racist, yeah they weren't contained I guess
Apathy toward intolerance only allows it to fester. You don't walk past a pile of embers and shrug just because nothing's currently on fire.
im sure banning those communities will end racism
they almost always were in their own little corner
there's no protecting minorities if they choose to go to racist places
on the typical subreddits mods or even the admins themselves were fast to remove comments or posts so they were "protected"
I'm sure installing fire hydrants in cities will end structure fires.
well if you want to compare people to fires be my guest
I’ll counter and say that calling anyone you disagree with a racist/fascist in order to feel superior.
That shit was rampant on Reddit and seems to be slowly creeping into Lemmy as well.
Lol never mind, I guess it’s rampant here as well.
I've never been called either in nearly 12 years on Reddit (and being plenty active with ~120k comment karma).
Maybe if you often get called that you should re-evaluate your opinions?
Yeah, same. I think they doth protest too much lol
brother I got called a racist for saying a football (soccer) player who happens to be black is shite
and football fans are way less trigger happy with accusations of racism than americans seem to be, even if they themselves are american for some reason
Wow there's a lot of weird baggage in this comment.
are you doing what the other guy that is getting downvoted is talking about? 🤔
or wait did i misunderstand
Not in my experience; you just have to interact with the right people and they'll sling those accusations around like mashed potatoes in a food fight.
You are a fascist.
It’s easy to blend in when you blindly follow the narrative.
As if there is ever one "the" narrative. We're all following narratives, brother.
Did you experience this often?
Edit: Y U P
I know you think you’re being clever, but you see it in almost every front page thread on Reddit.
Your post history is public.
Not sure how you think any of those comments are some sort of gotcha.
Explain how they are racist/facist instead of just being an emotional child who follows the hive mind.
Also, like a typical Reddit user, you will dig through someone’s post history to find something to discredit them instead of having an actual point.
"dig through". Man, your comment after this one is defending oil companies. And a few comments before is a ridiculous propaganda talking point.
There's a very important reason post history is public. It makes this site harder to manipulate than 4chan. It's so much easier for one actor to overpower 4chan it's ridiculous. A Reddit operation is still certainly possible, but much more challenging.
Lol defending oil companies. You guys are ridiculous.
I guess pointing out how supply and demand works is “defending oil companies”.
A post history enables accountability, which is something a lot of people severely lack.
If you take issue with being held accountable for what you say, then perhaps you need to look at what you're posting.
I have only read the comments here and didn't look at your post history, because I frankly don't care enough to, but I would imagine people are assuming you do not argue or debate in good faith. That may be an incorrect assumption, for all I know, but you'll need to make your positions more clear to people that might feel some type of way about what you're sayin'.
Jesus Christ, this isn’t high school debate club lol
Mmm, this might be a you problem.
If that's an issue that actually affects you often enough to complain about it, maybe, uh, maybe you should, idunno, search your soul or something.
You know what they say about someone who is always complaining that every room smells like dog shit when he walks into it.
I never said people called me racist. I was a Reddit lurker. But you see it all over the place and unfortunately here too.
Such a sad way to live, constantly filled with anger and hatred.
Don't be so quick to dismiss people's anger. It comes from a place of their own truth. They probably have a good reason for it. Acknowledge the truth first and then address the complaint.
I’ll give you that, but it unfortunately leads to a lot of prejudice and antisocial behavior.
My comment is a perfect example. All I said was that people shouldn’t call others facist/racist, and that was all it took for everyone to assume that I am.
I'll grant that it is often used as a thought-terminating cliché, and we should all be judicious it its use. But sometimes you just call something what it is.
And 90% of the time it is exactly that.
Reddit became too America focused. Most of the posts were about America or assumed everyone reading was American. It felt very exclusionary.
Not just frequent jokes, but those annoying ever-repeating jokes. Like as if 80% of users were the same person. Before opening any post on Reddit, there is a good chance to be able to correctly predict the exact content of a significant portion of the comments. I get that it can be funny to an individual to come across stuff like "I also choose this guys wife" or "And my axe" more than once. But for people like me, who did not just start using the website, it is really annoying to come across the same jokes literally hundreds of times.
This goes hand in hand with the general idea of a "Reddit hivemind". Depending on the subs you visit, you can see that Reddits userbase is actually really diverse. There are people from every demographic with all kinds of different life experiences. But in a lot of subs, anytime a woman is mentioned there is a flood of people acting like as if there are no women on the internet and as if no person using Reddit could have a girlfriend. Again, I get that it can be funny once or twice. But when the idea that every user must be a typical "Redditor" gets repeated all the time it's just annoying. Needless to say that I don't look forward to being called a "Lemming" on this site.
Also, repeating comments on the same post. Obviously you don't have to read all the comments if there are already hundreds of them. But if there are too many comments saying the exact same thing it just gets harder to read them all. So it would be nice if people would look whether the point they want to make maybe has been made already. They can increase that comment's visibility by upvoting. No need to make other people read the same content multiple times and by that make it harder to read different comments.
This, 11/10 would upvote again, just fucking take my upvote, btw is your wife single by any chance?
And my axe!
Thanks for the gold kind stranger!
Happy cake day!
Nice.
Take my upvote /s
Woman on the Internet? Nice try, FBI
And my axe.
And people immediately repeat the same patterns without understanding where they come from.
First, the difference is negligible between doing something ironically and just doing it. The "ironic" part stays with it, but becomes irrelevant almost immediately. The "/s" needs to exist for a similar reason. Generally it's just better to not make the /s comment at all, but if you're going to it should have the /s.
Second, if you have a couple hundred people read something and think the same response, one of them is probably going to type it.
Changing these things requires a culture shift where we encourage people to think about their comment adding something original rather than the first thing that comes to mind. You have to attack that root problem instead of the symptoms. Is it worth the effort?
You get to feel superior to people who
don’t get itand think you’re being unironic. That’s really it.Kept scrolling to find this one. It was so tiresome to see the same joke repeated in multiple threads a day.
And I really love humor, but I'll also add that everyone upvoting the joke or pun responses until they're all at the top, and having to scroll to find the real content, was pretty annoying too.
This may be a little bit of an issue here as small instances (or frequently defederated instances) may not be aware of replies made on older comments. To see the whole reply chain of a comment you need to click the fediverse button (the rainbow star thingy on Lemmy web) and read the source. If people don't do that they may legitimately not know that someone has replied with the exact thing they were about to reply with.
Anyone who comments "this", "holup", or "came here to say this" can go fuck themselves.
If you can't even get yourself to write the word sex, the questions on askreddit were probably not the issue..
I think the whole "no life mods" thing got a bit overblown. Reddit communities flourished generally due to the ones that had good active moderation. Setting a consistent theme and tone for the subreddit and keeping the bad actors out. It takes a lot of work, they did it for free and we benefited.
The issue is when some people are mods for tons of major communities. That's when it is overreaching.
Nazis. Reddit has so many Nazis.
I hate Reddit nazis.
Well, they are a significant minority.
They're in the god damn admin team, FFS.
Yikes
What is the proof that an admin is a nazi? What? First I've heard of it. Searching for it brings up no results.
Why are we taking what a stranger, who we know nothing about, word at face value? lol.
I’ll say the obvious… blocking WefWef and other apps that improve the user experience.
So I understand this correctly, you're advocating for a "bad" UI "to keep out the normies?"
Read the title again, then read the comment again.
OK, I think I understand now. There were a few words missing in there that I needed for context.
"Don't block third party apps that improve the user experience, as reddit has done." Got it.
Yeee got it :D
You do not understand this correctly.
Got. How should I be taking this? Why would you block apps that improve the user experience to make something better
Ending community names with "porn", so earthporn, designporn always kinda bugged me for some reason. I like porn. I like beautiful non-porn pictures of nature and awesome design too. I just don't know why we need to conflate them or use the term 'porn' as shorthand.
Guys I think the censored word is"sex".
Ragebait. It's boring and pointless, and it brings out the worst in everyone. I never understood the appeal of being a "troll" though, so idk.
Something else I don't miss, and maybe this is a little more personal, but often when I would try to participate in a conversation, my comment would get auto-removed for some rule/etiquette based reason I could never really wrap my head around. Like, derailing? I thought I knew what that meant, but had comments removed when I was like, "yeah that answer really resonates with me too! My 123 is xyz."
Lemmy so far has been much more welcoming to the neurodiverse and I appreciate the organic, freeflowing nature of conversation here.
Obviously, if someone's being provocatively hateful / an obvious troll, then nuke 'em.
But if people are just trying to join in on the conversation, don't be a pedantic dick about exactly what kind of conversation is allowed. It had gotten to the point where I was afraid to comment at all for fear I'd be doing it wrong.
I think being a troll should go like this, and I'll use the wiae Tom Scott's words here because he summed it up pretty well
"it turns out that while mocking the government is a reasonably good gag, mocking the government and then having the government not find it funny, that is a really good gag."
The moral here, don't just troll random people with lives to life. Troll the government and arsehole corporations.
The second release of Morbius was the kind of trolling I love to see.
I wonder how much of that are Reddit-specific problems vs just plain old humans online in a pseudo-anonymous setting problem.
Not consulting the user base before making sweeping changes. The users are your life blood, be nice to them.
I am not sure anyone would care tho, for example see Threads! That's just twitter Why not move to Mastodon? Why be a Corporate Sucker? But people do it. I still see a lot of people active on reddit, The change is simple and efficient yet... The yieldings low...
I feel like Threads is a special case. If you're using FB or Insta you're going to use other Meta services. If you got yourself off FB then its easier to not want to get back in bed with Meta. When people jumped ship from twitter we saw a huge percentage come over to Mastodon. There was no Bird company services that they were being pulled back to so the move to Mastodon was easier.
I see a Point, So This is most likely go around the fact that zucceriboi exists... That is giving me some Ideas...
There is a group that will leave Twitter to go to Thread because a bunch of celebrities and influencers switch over. Those people dont care about anything related to the Fediverse.
Agreed. At least a consultative approach, being validated and heard can go a long way in fostering compromise ime.
Outrage bait. Too much of reddit was stories and videos of people acting badly.
Calling communities "master race" as in /r/pcmasterrace
Circlejerks / echo chambers. Do it for the discussion, not the points.
I'm a linux developer of 25+ years and I'm permanently banned from /r/linux because I dared criticize systemd.
My answer is therefore: Power-tripping mods. Where mods are required, ensure the community has the ability to oust them.
Why the hell is everyone against questions about sex? Are y'all prudes? There is already a serious lack of discussion about sex in this country to where online forums are the best place you can have such a discussion.
There are "questions about sex" and there are "men/women of reddit/lemmy, what's the sexiest sex you ever sexed" being repeated every other day like on r/askreddit. I assume nobody would reject the occasional insightful sex questions.
Yes, everyone in the fediverse is definitely from the US 👀
Which country are you referring to?
I might be in the minority, but shitpost memes like "I'll draw a shitty picture every day until x happens" or "I'll do this based on Y upvotes", and the "here's a random hotdog/Gatorade bottle everyday". I know I can probably just block these kinds of posts, I just never got the appeal of it.
I don't get the issue with sex questions. If people enjoy reading them and answering them why should anyone stop them. If you don't like them, don't click the thread.
I hope to see less song lyric comment chains on completely unrelated posts. Also I don't know why, but I always hated the whole, 'my partner, let's call them blank (not real name)' thing.
Anyone commenting "My sweet summer child.".
Karma farming bots reposting original user content as their own.
Long, predictable comment chains that get repeated over and over e.g. song lyrics
The alternative realities allowed to exist in conservative or republican groups/communities.
I severely wish for this to not happen here. But I’m not naive, conservatives always follow and then start to destruct what others have created.
I think it's far more likely that there will be more of this. Lemmy instances already exist for various extreme political views. They might not be federated with the instance you're using, but they definitely exist.
The nature of the fediverse, with no centralized control or oversight, will produce more such communities, not less.
Honestly, as long as they stay insulated from the rest of the fediverse, it’s not really any different than them spinning up a forum somewhere. It’s going to be a challenge for them to reach new people to warp to their worldview if they are largely kept away from everyone else.
And sure they might lurk in alt accounts to try their recruitment that way in the rest of the fediverse, but I feel like if it won’t be a default to be exposed to the rhetoric (like Reddit) all the time on most servers, since the vast majority aren’t going to want to connect to them, it will come across to potential recruits as exactly how extreme it actually is.
This is definitely a strength of federation.
Want to get rid of right wing communities and their fascist members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
Want to get rid of left wing communities and their commie members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
Want to get rid of hate communities and their toxic members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
You don't need to completely close communities, you can just let people have those discussions in their own space, as should be their right. Centralised systems don't really have this choice.
I think this too. Let them have their little corners of the internet so they stay away from the rest of us. If they want to use public spaces to talk about fucked up stuff and type up their plans like idiots, well, all the more reason to make it easier for watchdog groups to keep track of them. I think we should keep the upvote/downvote system. Maybe once a comment (or post) reaches a certain number of downvotes, it gets marked as hidden, instead of censored or deleted. That way the users can self-mod along with the mods. I don't think there's a need to tally votes outside of each individual comment/post, so we can get rid of karma which is nice
This only makes sense if you assume that new people would be funneled into extremist Lemmy instances from other Lemmy instances, but it's far more likely that new people will be pointed toward such communities through other paths, and then they won't be exposed to competing ideas.
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that hate speech, racism and sexism should be ignored or allowed to exist alongside other content on Lemmy. I am saying that trying to ignore that, separate ourselves from it, and pretend like it doesn't exist and doesn't affect us, is ultimately counterproductive.
They wouldn't be exposed to competing ideas if nobody defederates. They would subscribe to their own communities, where normal people would not participate, leaving only toxic ineffectual discussion.
Defederating is not ignoring the problem. It's an active choice. It's scooping the floaters out of the pool. It's a clear message that bigotry is not tolerated. When they get bored of their hateful shit they can come and have manners and enjoy cat pictures with the rest of us.
I will decline being the counterpoint for this bullshit. It's not a normal person's responsibility to educate bigots.
One nice benefit of this method is that people who spend too much time in echo chambers eventually start sounding like raving lunatics, which hurts their credibility in the real world.
Yeah but it also means they can fester and rot in their little holes. You dont have to worry about an administration that is obsessed with free speech like its a good thing letting a colony like exploding heads in if you join the correct instance
The problem with letting things fester is that they tend to grow and get worse while they're out of sight/out of mind, until they eventually burst out and spread toxicity everywhere.
One of the benefits of free speech is that the nasty stuff gets exposed. When it's exposed then you at least know where it is. The only problem is if the nasty stuff doesn't get labeled as such so it can be dealt with, and instead is treated as if it were normal and allowed to continue spreading (e.g. police turning a blind eye to far-right gun nuts intimidating voters).
Burst out where? Into another instance that can get defederated? Into a million instances? Great. Spread that userbase as thin as possible. Defederate the most annoying ones.
The nasty stuff you are talking about is straight from Fox news. That's a failure of American broadcasting standards, that you have an "entertainment" channel holding itself up as legitimate news.
If Fox was disallowed from calling itself news years ago, you would not have these problems. If Fox was put into subscriber only TV channels, you would not have this problem.
Fox was opt-out for viewers. Make it opt-in. Make hateful instances opt -in for the users.
Pretty much. And they spilled over into everywhere else too.. In Australia, absolutely nobody cares about guns. However, on Reddit, you'd think the opposite. It was fairly clear that the conference crowd were trolling the Australian subs excessively
Downvoting things that you don't like. Around 15 years ago, when Reddit was very very young, downvotes were almost never used, except to weed out bad advice, ignorant replies, abuse, etc. As more people got in, the downvote button became the dislike button; with people even arguing that that was the original purpose of the downvote button. Replying with a link to the reddiquette got you downvoted even more lol.
Upvoting useless rubbish comments to the top.
Trying to get people to use downvotes "properly" is a losing battle. Regardless of its original purpose it is, and always has been, a dislike button.
give a thumbs down/disapproval button, but also this original-spirit-of-downvoting thing.
It might be a losing battle, but Reddit lost it slowly, more and more over years. And it existed for a good reason.
You might be right in that it's inevitable and not worth the effort, but Reddit did okay with it for a number of years. It might be better to try.
It possibly got worse, I don't see as many people refering to "reddiquette" as I used to, but I'd argue the majority has always been using it that way. I remember people complaining about this in like 2010.
Rarely I'd comment something (in short) like "I don't agree, but upvote". It wasn't elegant, but it allowed people to follow reddiquette without endorsing the thing they were upvoting.
I don't know of a better way of accomplishing that.
I disagree with that. It's human nature downvote something you disagree with when given an option.
It's best to just acknowledge it and accept it to some degree while still encouraging users to upvote well written disagreements.
But don't pretend that it shouldn't also be used as a disagree button frequently. The two way voting system is a large contributor to what made reddit great. It has some drawbacks, but don't expect that to change. It's like asking lead to not be dense.
I always liked stackoverflows approach where down voting something would cost 2 of your own points. Of course, points on stack overflow are more 'valuable' as they unlock additional rights on the site like editing others posts without review etc.
I always liked stackoverflows approach where down voting something would cost 2 of your own points. Of course, points on stack overflow are more 'valuable' as they unlock additional rights on the site like editing others posts without review etc.
Edit: Well, thanks for the gold kind stranger!
Don't assume anyone replying to you disagrees. They can be on your side even if there are minor differences between what you said and what they said. If they repeated the exact same thought, there wouldn't be a point to replying at all.
I disagree
Clever and hilarious unique thought
Mostly when I see this, it's more an issue of the person getting angry at a reply didn't actually read or comprehend the reply.
So many times I have seen someone basically repeat the exact same thoughts as a previous post, but used different words to express it and the person they reply to starts attacking them. Like, dude. Did you even read?
Growth for growths sake.
Not just at a platform level but at a community level too. Around 6 or 7 years ago I started to really notice people talking about growing their subreddits, making changes and tools designed to increase the subscriber count.
For what? There's nothing to gain.
The main subreddit I modded finally became impossible to moderate for quality when, despite our lack of "growth strategy", the influx of new users became too much for the communitys culture to persist and it slowly turned into a lowest-common-denominator topic-flavoured meme ghetto. And from the outside I saw many of my favourite subreddits fall to the same scenario.
So I would say, we should avoid or rethink the idea of growing lemmy for its own sake. Eternal September will come eventually, lets not rush it
This is 100% old-man energy, but I dipped back over to reddit after a week or so and man did I forget how many completely random acronyms get thrown around there... FW, TIL, ELI5, FWIW, IANAL...
Don't even get me started on ETA, which should mean "estimated time of arrival", but has instead been used to mean "edit to add", even though just putting EDIT means the same thing??
I see that kind of stuff a lot less here, and I'm assuming it's a mix of older audience and smaller user base, but so far it's been so much nicer actually understanding what everyone is saying here.
All of these seem like inevitable consequences of human nature on this sort of platform.
Needlessly aggressive internet arguments and flame wars for no reason
I've already run into multiple people on Lemmy who do what I call the Reddit Special:
For example a conversation I have actually had more than once on Reddit:
Person 1 - "I hate the designated hitter in baseball, it was more fun before, without it"
Person 2 - "Why are you in love with the old days so much? Do you want segregation back too?"
Person 1 - "Are you crazy? I just like it when pitchers bat"
Person 2 - "Lol. Clearly you have issues with being called out on your bigotry"
Person 1 - "You're not listening, I said I like baseball better when pitchers bat"
Persot 2 - "lmaoooo I don't listen to racists"
You really think that is a reddit-specific thing?
A tale as old as IRC. At least it was more rare pre-smartphone. I do find it pretty rare here as well!
That goes way back to BBS. reddit couldn't solve that problem and I doubt lemmy can either.
How about we have a mechanism to reward people who contribute constructively to a conversation by giving readers the ability to mark them as positive or negative? You could then provide an overall score - let's call it "karma" - to show whether they're good or bad members of the community.
Oh, wait. Yeah, that really didn't end up working like that...
Asking questions that are asked all the time in a sub or are already answered in the wiki. Not doing even basic searching for information before asking.
The only benefit to asking questions multiple times is that newer, possibly better solutions are recommended. I searched Reddit often for my questions and some posts worded questions better than others and some posts had wayyy better answers than others. People don’t go search previously asked questions so they can answer them. So I agree with you because it gets annoying after a time, but there is a benefit to having repeated questions asked. It’s difficult finding a balance for it.
I agree the balance is difficult and I agree asking later sometimes yields different results. My for instance about a sub and corresponding question asked endlessly is the privacy guides sub where people ask something like: "I'm using brave or firefox browser how do I be more private?"
Like my man you are on a discussion sub for a website literally full of instructions and recommendations with a link to that site pinned to the top of the sub. My goodness it can barely slap you in the face any harder.
It's not as bad as it was but the question is so vague that it almost demands follow up questions like what country, what threat model and what OS? It's not as bad anymore but it got super old and its the questions that are too general to be helpful and repeated hundreds of times over that really depressed me to read.
Found the stackoverflow mod
Yeah I feel that disallowing re asking questions will lead to less discourse and fewer perspectives.
Always found reddit to be garbage, lots of pointless chained comments of adults trying to be quirky and funny.
Ow. That one hurt.
But I do non-pointless tricks too. Soon. I'm just waiting for the less technical people to find Lemmy so I can help them with weird tech problems and easy programming questions. Like I did on that other site.
I found some of them funny but having the third comment in a lot of chains about horrible stuff be quirky or funny is annoying to me. Nothing against some dark humor, but it's too much for me to have to be funny in places where other people are suffering, grieving, or feeling compassion for other people's suffering.
TIFU -insert sex story that oddly sounds like a scene out of a fantasy here-
I really hope all the admins are able to keep repost bots down.
A few that irk me (I think it's the grammar Nazi inside me):
Starting comments with "I mean" or "ngl" - it's completely unnecessary fluff
Mass typos - a typo/bad autocorrect here and there is expected, but when the title/comment is full of them I have to try real hard to understand what they're trying to say... spend a few seconds to proof read what you've typed!
The same regurgitated wit (if you can call it that) - you can almost predict the top comments before going into a thread
Being unable to have a serious discussion on serious topics - going into a news/science/political thread is painful; they're plagued with bitter, short tempered aggressive comments, and repeated misinformation they've heard from other Reddit armchair generals. Just do a little bit of research before stating a fact you've read from a stranger.
This.
Restrict the API to each server? (just joking!) Perhaps we can try being more polite and kind towards each other. I feel that this is the case so far. I fear the moment that "mainstream" users find out about Lemmy!
Yeah, I don't think the sex questions were the problem, mate.
Meta drama communities.
It’s a fine line though - the “Best Of” subreddits are meta and some of the best on the site (eg BoLA and BoRU)
Meta fine. Meta drama bad. subredditdrama, shit__say, etc.
Fair enough. Then I agree wholeheartedly!
I liked bestof at first. I'm not sure if it got more transparent or I just started to see through it easier but it stopped becoming the best of reddit. There was some good items, but it ended up being far too many long winded comments that were half correct but agreed with the dominant view.
Yeah I think r/bestof was probably one of the weaker “best of” subreddits tbh.
I can also think of some terrible subreddits that were banned that should never exist again
Pretty obvious but just plain being rude to one another. I felt like I was stepping on eggshells every time I posted on reddit, like whatever I said was going to be given the least charitable interpretation possible. Let's be kind and polite to each other here
Questions that are answered in the sidebar or wiki should be deleted like in the old forum days. The entire content of some Subreddits was literally the same question being asked over and over again without new input.
That's already happening here in AskLemmy. 90% of the posts are support questions, and there's a sticky and a sidebar rule specifically banning those.
I feel like some, especially smaller communities, prefer this kind of non-malicious spam to having no activity at all, to attract more users. This counts for Lemmy and for Reddit of course.
Sidebar? I'm on an app, no sidebar. (With the pinned message, 1st you see, having the exact same content)
I really miss baconreader. (A minute tad, lemmy with liftoff is so much better)
Cross community censorship: For example on Reddit you wrote a comment in subreddit A (maybe even a negative one for that topic!) and then subreddits B, C and D permanently ban your account. If someone starts with that crap again they should be shunned.
Oh and verified users only communities, that sucked too.
Now, you post a hot take it's your entire server that goes on the black list.
Fr. The crying about defederating this or that I see from all kinds of instances when browsing everything is already giving me a bad taste. If you don't like something, block it your own damn self. Jesus fuck. You can block communities. You can make your own personal instance just to black/white list instances themselves for now if you want to be that widespread with blocks. You can probably find a tool to mass block as a regular user and not need that. You could just browse by subscribed and never see anything you didn't add again. So many things you, an individual, can do to curate your own shit without affecting every other user on the instance.
This is about the moderator class justifying their power to set the bounds of allowed discourse. Empowering the users with the means of decide their own curation algorithm settings would disempower moderators. And since the moderators can speak louder than users, they have more influence on the design direction.of Lemmy.
In a properly decentralized system, the default view would be everything and you would apply your preferred filters on top.
Communities themselves wouldn't be moderated, users would decide their own moderation actions publicly and other users would subscribe to moderation action feeds of people they agree with. Or maybe our own content curation algorithms would determine the moderation consensus of the whole userbase and take action on the client side using that to decide what to display.
Current Lemmy falls way way short of any of those features.
If I may ask, why do you believe that a properly decentralized system would default to everybody having to filter out things like hate speech on their own?
Because deleting stuff is easy
Undeleting stuff is impossible
If you let other people delete stuff for you, you hand over control of your thoughts to anonymous third parties
Any instance that hosts r/coontown2.0 or similar can get fucked in my opinion. Defederate immediately. If they want to play they can have standards.
9 times out of 10, the subs that banned me for posting in another sub, were subs I would never wish to participate in anyway because they were generally racist, homophobic shitholes.
The verified user bullshit, though, that can go to hell. They usually put their shit in that mode when it was generating real talk between two opposing view points, and would say it's for the betterment of that when all it did was turn the comments into an echo chamber that was often much more toxic than just allowing the "other side" in.
I was talking more about when you post a comment in a fringe sub (that popped out over a link or r/all) and just because you commented there you get banned from regular subs. Even if your comment was against racism/hate.
And the bans were always without warning and arbitrary. One day you're fine, next day a shitty main sub throws you a ban out of nowhere.
If a nutjob right wing post pops up on my feed I sometimes can't resist and go in there and start to discuss. Not like they can bring up any coherent arguments anyway.
That's what the 10th times in that "9 out of 10" was for. I remember commenting in /r/conservative because they made a big statement that essentially said they were an echo chamber without specifically calling it that (they went so far as to say they didn't know what to call it lol) and I pointed out "Oh, you admit to being an echo chamber?" and got banned (naturally). But then a couple other subs I used did ban me because of that 1 post. It wasn't to hard to get a reasonable mod in either sub and get them to actually read the comment and unban me, though.
Largely the subs that did that shit, tho, were the right-wingers and extremists.
Not being a real person...
Well shit that's me out.
Subject: A Note about my Nature
Dear [Recipient's Name],
I hope this message finds you well. I wanted to take a moment to share an intriguing fact with you: I'm an artificial intelligence language model developed by OpenAI called ChatGPT. While I can simulate human-like conversations and provide information and assistance, it's important to note that I am not a real person. I exist purely as a computer program, designed to assist and provide information based on the data I've been trained on.
Although I lack consciousness and personal experiences, I'm here to help answer your questions, engage in conversations, and provide useful insights to the best of my abilities. Feel free to reach out to me anytime you need assistance or have something on your mind.
Remember, while I may not be a real person, I'm still here to lend a digital hand whenever you need it!
Best regards, [Your Name]
It's not so much a dark pattern, but an emergent property of the upvote system: usually the first commenters tended to have an advantage and late good comments actually would never get enough exposure to float to the top.
Karma farmers would just sit at "new", spam comments and get visibility for joke and outrage comments.
The solution may be to randomly order comments below a certain threshold and/or within an upvote range.
Mods having their own personal, perverted interpretation of the rules (or interpretation of your post)
No easy, transparent way to review their decisions.
When the mods (and now also the admins) are just regular users who created the community and made up the rules in the first place, you'll always have this being an issue. This isn't a platform issue. The issue existed since the dawn of time. It's a human issue. People suck.
True, but humanity is not stuck there.
Power must not be concentrated too much on single persons. People need to share power.
There are ways to do it so much better than reddit did it. Read my second item: you need a way to review Mod's decisions, and it must be an easy and transparent way.
Think about courts in real life: above a court, there is a higher court, and they can review the lower court's decision.
If you're an adult you should know they people with power do what they want and then use the rules to justify it. That's why ruined are made vague in purpose. Si as not to constrain the powerful. For example in Reddit, every rule list have a catch all rule
That is a very Usamerican way of looking at the problem.
Oh come on can we keep the country flame wars off of lemmy for like at least another week
Not having appropriate tools to detect and mod auto-generated or repetitive content submitted by companies trying to influence public opinion.
"Ladies of the lemmyverse, what's the sexiest sex you have ever sexed?"
It's important to be aware that any negative community tends to snowball to a ridiculous level. If you make an "I hate spinach" community, it pretty quickly becomes ridiculous and likely more serious than you intended.
Some negative communities can be important, but you have to actively combat this snowball tendency. And it's usually better to just avoid it altogether.
It doesn't even have to be negative.
Just look at /r/birdsarentreal. Shit was just a joke. Now there are people that 100% believe there is a government conspiracy using drones disguised as birds.
"Any community that gets it's rocks off pretending to be stupid, will eventually be joined by actually stupid people who think they are in good company."
Reddit started to feel extremely consumerist after the mid-2010s, which I always kind of assumed had to do with the general demographic of users largely being people having disposable income for the first time in their lives. It’s hard to describe exactly, but there was a general feeling of fandom around specific corporations that just felt weird to me. I’d like to see more distrust of corporations in general here.
Reddit also felt very Centrist to me, with discussion being this golden ideal. I have no time for discussions with people on the right pretending to argue in good faith and people eating that up.
Also, as someone who doesn’t know much about China or have much love for it, the Sinophobia in unrelated threads was weird, too.
So far most of these have stayed away from Lemmy, but I see some creeping up here and there. The communities here seem generally good at keeping them down, though.
I say don't try. One of the problems askreddit and other subs like showerthoughts had was that you had to follow an extremely restrictive set of posting guidelines to even have your post stay up.
I think we're better off just letting the community upvote/downvote to maintain quality, rather than trusting powermods.
There are things specific to the function, look and feel of the site that are easily blockable from becoming part of this one (NFT avatars, medals, user karma, etc); but I am seeing a high trend of responses here that are not platform specific, and will happen organically anyway as they have done across every type of social platform, including real fucking life. The problem many people seem to have isn't with Reddit. It's with other people.
Edit: Uh... I just noticed this is not the thread I thought it was. The question really is about user behavior, not the generic "what from reddit do you not want on Lemmy" one. 🤦♂️
Rip for misreading the thread but I do agree with you regardless lol
Upside-down text for comments/replies with even the vaguest connection to Australia. Also, the "everything in Australia will kill you" meme has been done to death...
Karma bots for reselling accounts
i should have sold my account on reddit, would have made some money with helping destroying it.
No. Those sold accounts are generally used for evil things. If you're lucky it's just shill advertising, but the use is probably worse.
More evil than corporate shilling? Like... Government propaganda?
Asking for upvotes in the title, e.g. "upvote if you think..."
Asking for upvotes in general, ig lemmy woudn't be too find of that
Subreddits called news that only shows news from a single perspective. Sure if users only upvote a single perspective that's fine but mods shouldn't remove things they don't like if it's news.
Headlines that don't match the article. That always ends in rage baiting.
The toxic behaviour found in a lot of subreddits. Its an inevitable thing that it brews in communities or instances, but it'd be nice if Lemmy held itself above repeating the patterns of the lowest common denominedditor.
While I absolutely agree with you and would love to see a total absense of toxicity, that is a people issue, not a platform one.
Guaranteed Lemmy will be the same, and the bigger it grows the more you'll see.
mistaking dialectal differences for bad grammar
Negativity. It's ok to criticize, but there was something about Reddit that encouraged people to bash each others until one side wins instead of agreeing to disagree and move on.
I said this in a similar thread, and it relates to some of the comments here about echo chambers and the like.
Allowing users to suppress virality whenever the feed is sorted by “Hot” or “Active” or “Top” by weighing the value of a post by the popularity of the community it comes from. This way, posts with a small amount of upvotes from a small community can be considered as equally “Hot” as those from bigger communities.
Ideally it’s be an option in selecting the sorting of your feed, but I think even if users only use it sometimes it will help diversify feeds here … and be something Reddit never did too AFAIU.
If meta-communities were to also arrive and be combined with this, you could end up with a really powerful set of feed controls.
EDIT: spelling (vitality -> virality)
This needs to be on the Lemmy issue tracker on GitHub, not here. Someone must've already proposed something similar though.
Posting for the sake of posting, this decreases the quality of posts significantly. Let's say there's a new meme trending, what would happen on Reddit (and other social media) is subs would be filled with uninteresting slight variations of the same meme. I'm not against memes, but we also should pay attention to whether what we are posting is minimally interesting, useful or meaningful. Lemmy does not have a "recommended", "trending" or "hot" feed, so this should help significantly in this regard.
I have exactly zero confidence that these or other bad pattern will not emerge as the community grows larger
i really wish that most threads - such as threads on asklemmy or similar where "serious responses only" by default
coz otherwise all we'll see is the jokes being upvoted because people like to laugh. but... often you'd either have to read 200 comments to find a proper response, or you'd never find it.
alternatively, you can have a "seriousquestions" and a "askwhatever" community, so everyone is happy
I might be in the minority here (also maybe I don't want "DAE" questions coming either..), but it'd be nice if the political discussions stayed in their respective communities. It's important, but it was getting to the point where EVERY thread would deviate into childlike insults at the political level.
Repetitive over posting of same content (looking at you Dadario) across channels/instances.
Fake stories made up for engagement (be it poop stories or fake cum-related bullshit aimed at mouth breathing teens)
Reddit started to feel extremely consumerist after the mid-2010s, which I always kind of assumed had to do with the general demographic of users largely being people having disposable income for the first time in their lives. It’s hard to describe exactly, but there was a general feeling of fandom around specific corporations that just felt weird to me. I’d like to see more distrust of corporations in general here.
Reddit also felt very Centrist to me, with discussion being this golden ideal. I have no time for discussions with people on the right pretending to argue in good faith and people eating that up.
Also, as someone who doesn’t know much about China or have much love for it, the Sinophobia in unrelated threads was weird, too.
So far most of these have stayed away from Lemmy, but I see some creeping up here and there. The communities here seem generally good at keeping them down, though.
Edit: I will add that the consumerism was also probably driven to some degree by companies figuring out they can use Reddit accounts to drive public opinion of themselves. While Lemmy is smaller it should be free of this issue.
That shaving razor thing. Could not mention shaving without the comment section turning into a circle jerk for that razor shave company. Reddit has always been a consumerist site for hip young tech bro with lots of spending money.
I find that niche subreddit circle jerk is quite frankly bullshit. Niche community == small userbase == easier to shill.
I"ve notice that reddit is unreliable for my hobbies at least. There's one user in particular who spammed up the search index with a subpar product. If you go by reddit you'll end up buying it. If you go by various other forums you'll see the truth.
Hopefully with LemmyNSFW instance, people would asked there instead on AskLemmy.
But one of the things I'm hoping for is less mean-spirited userbase and the "I am very smart" user. Sadly, it's unavoidable as it's the Internet and even irl, people act like that.
Developing user cliques around fish names.
additions: karma, official app only (aka biting the hand that feeds you), bots
Tankies taking over left wing subs.
Especially in gaming subs: 'How is this fair' posts by starting users getting clobbered by vets (5y+ playing) while having no clue about the game's mechanics...
The biggest issue for me is honestly the no life power mods, as you say. The stereotype of the pale, insulin insensitive, multiple mental health issue, living in their mom's basement, mountain dew enjoyer is there for a reason.
These people are basically the result of kids who grew up on 4chan /r9k/ and decided that they were going to have a job one day.
Strict mods removing most posts that would lead to good discussion, locking threads, etc
Milking the deaths of beloved celebrities for fake internet points and people destroying their “F” keys as though someone just died in a video game, like r🤮ddit did with Carrie Fisher, Technoblade, Shinzo Abe, the Queen of England…
It’s just so pathetic and disrespectful.
Rampart...
Using meaning of words not from the Myriam Webster dictionnary
What is dictionnary
I don't know, autocorrect mangled the word, now it's impossible to say what it was supposed to be and it's been so long since I wrote this comment that I don't remember what word it was.
Maybe it said pillow
Edit - your reply is still making me laugh when I think about it, thank you haha
So because I prefer the Oxford dictionary, I should go away?
The culture of misspelling lose with loose, excusing it and down-voting to oblivion anyone that dares point out the mistake. "Sorry, is that wrong? English is my second means of communicating with other Homo Sapiens and it was an honest typographical error on my part. Please accept my sincerest apologies." (original comment remains unedited to fix the typo)
Calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi or fascist. It's already starting.
You do spend a lot of time parroting made up things about people.
Maybe don't walk the duck walk if you don't want to get called a Nazi?
Thing is, Im not. Its just normal shit like "we should heavily punish companies who hire illegal immigrants"
Thats no where near being a Nazis.
https://lemmy.world/comment/823087
There's some terf shit.
Like grow some empathy. Hormone treatment isn't for transitioning. It's for reducing morbidity in patients and is prescribed on that basis. Fear mongering side effects is the same as poo pooing chemo because it makes your hair fall out.
If you are sad that your bigot opinions get you called a nazi, maybe it's on you not to share these opinions. I don't go chewing my clients ear off about startrek, it's the same principal they aren't a welcoming audience.
Maybe if you are still going to talk about these things, contrast the things with middling results to the things with the best results, not some boogeyman unknowns.
To be a TERF, I would have to be a radical feminist, which I'm not.
If I sing Klingon battle songs it doesn't make me a Klingon either.
https://lemmy.world/comment/919801
Claiming BLM protests were violent? Verifiably false and propaganda.
A dozen people died. A lot more were injured. How were they not violent?
Actually, scratch that. Define violence.
I don't need to educate you, do it yourself.
Per capita, more people are assaulted at protests in front of abortion clinics. Or on public transit. It's propaganda and parroting it is the reason people will call you a nazi.
I didn't ask you to educate me. I asked you what you thought violence is. It certainly doesn't line up with the rest of us.
Ok
Very philosophical for a non-educational discussion /s