Plex lays off 20% of its workforce
Plex, the free streaming app, laid off approximately 20% of its staff, TechCrunch has learned, which will affect all departments, including the Personal Media teams.
“This is by far the hardest decision we’ve had to make at Plex,” CEO Keith Valory said in a statement. “These are all wonderful people, great colleagues, and good friends. But we believe it is the right thing for the long-term health and stability of Plex.”
The streaming app gives users a single destination to upload and organize content (video, audio and photos) from their own server while also allowing them to stream it via mobile app, smart TV or desktop.
In recent years, however, Plex has invested in free, ad-supported streaming (FAST) and live TV offerings. The FAST market has become saturated as many companies have entered the space. Plus, the overall advertising industry has taken a hit, making it harder for companies to earn enough revenue.
Valory noted in his statement that the company was significantly impacted by the slowdown. “While we adjusted our business plan last year after the shift in equity markets to get us back on a path to profitability without having to cut personnel expenses, the downturn in the ad market in Q2 put significantly more pressure on our business and ultimately it became clear that we would need to take additional measures in order to maintain a confident path to profitability within the next 18 months,” he said.
He added that the company is still expected to see 30% growth this year.
According to a Slack message from Valory, obtained by The Verge, which first reported the layoffs, Valory noted that 37 employees would be impacted.
Additionally, it seems that Plex may have had another round of layoffs earlier this year. Five months ago, a former account executive posted on LinkedIn that they were “affected by company layoffs.”
As of January, the company had 175 employees, and its revenue was in the double-digit millions.
Updated 6/29/23 at 12:10 p.m. ET with a statement from CEO.
Or we could all switch to an Open Source alternative, Jellyfin, and either donate what you’d normally pay Plex or just enjoy it for free. I’ve never used Plex and started with Jellyfin. It’s gotten the job done thus far
It’s the app ecosystem for plex that keeps me there. There’s an app for my LG tv, an app for my in-laws’ Roku etc.
Yes you’re right, Jellyfin isn’t on many platforms but I’m pretty sure they have an app for LG and Roku (Clients here). Although the LG app isn’t the best from what I remember. What I usually do is use an Amazon fire stick with Tailscale for my family and it’s been working well. But also as popularity increases others will be able to contribute more and the apps will become better.
It's picked up nearly every feature I had used on Plex within the last year. The developers are doing great.
The devs for it are rock stars. So many good improvements in such a short time.
In case you didn't know, Roku and LG TVs have a Jellyfin app.
I do know but I’m grateful for your sharing anyway.
My point was more that plex coverage was wider than jellyfin.
I do agree. Unfortunately some platforms like PlayStation for example won’t allow Open Source apps so there is no chance in there being an app for these platforms.
However, more platforms are slowly being added with the Tizen app for Samsung TVs in progress and usable through side loading.
Agreed. If Jellyfin has any desire to become the market leader and a legit alternative for home media streaming, an already narrow niche, they need to refine this piece of the end user experience.
And I'm not saying Jellyfin wants to do this. They've definitely found their hardcore enthusiast crowd.
Its the only reason I am still using Plex, I don't know if we will ever get Jellyfin on even half the devices that Plex is on. : (
I downloaded the free emby server for my pc and paid the single payment 4€ for the android tv app. No regrets, works great.
Emby is not open source any more.
If jellyfin could record and playback OTA TV on my Apple TV I’d switch tomorrow, but it seems the team is either unable to or unwilling to work on that feature which is core to how my household uses Plex. The only maybe solution is Infuse which is paid and closed source so is no better really than using Plex in that regard.
Like most things in the world, your use case is not the only use case and as such a solution that checks all the boxes for you will not check all the boxes for everyone.
Does jellyfin supoort Ota recording at all?
It’s a big part of how I use plex as well.
Edit: looks like they may will be looking into it much more but I use hdhomeruns : https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/server/live-tv/
I wonder how I would replace plexamp
If you are on Android there is Finamp, which isn't quite as nice but it is clean and free. If you're willing to pay a couple bucks there's also Symfonium which IMO is even better than Plexamp. It has way more customization and I love that it uses Material You.
I don't understand what you mean by "they may be looking into it much more"? HDHomerun is supported explicitly per the link you provided
I* may be. Autocorrect got me
Part of plex’s problem is their lifetime license subscription simply isn’t sustainable, much less geared for growth. Add in some of the cruff they have added into stuff like their “streaming” services and yeah this seems kinda obvious. Especially since they were relying on VC funding drives as recently as 5 years ago.
How does jellyfin compare to Kodi and Emby? I've been using Emby for the last couple of years and it's fine, but I wonder if I'm missing out on any features.
Jellyfin came out of Emby if I am not wrong. Something like they took the open source parts and created jellyfin and then improvised upon that.
Jellyfin is a fork from when Emby went closed source.
Hmm, might give it a shot then. Emby seems more polished than Kodi was, which was the main reason I picked it. Does jellyfin have any of the features Emby premiere offers (GPU transcoding and a Google TV app?).
I've never paid plex but just seals the deal. They obviously can't be trusted to handle the money I give them properly. I wish Jellyfin was a litte more fullybaked though. The app for appletv is really bad
Edit:
Due to some maximally pedantic comments from @[email protected] , I should clear something up. I've never paid plex. I can't trust them to handle the money I give them hypothetically. This doesn't mean that i've both not given them money and given them money. This means that in the case in which I did give them money, I wouldn't trust them to handle it properly, given the rounds of layoffs happening there
Which is it?
Can you explain your confusion? I don't know what you're asking
Let's try combining your statements and see if that clears it up.
"They can't be trusted to handle the money I've never paid them."
That still doesn't make any sense. I never said I paid them. What I think happened is you believed to have found some contradiction in what I said and felt so clever about it you had to run to your keyboard lest you forget just how clever you were.
It's possible that in your rush to feel clever, you forgot to understand the english language. Happens a lot with people who have something to prove. Is it possible you read the sentence "They obviously can’t be trusted to handle the money I give them properly." and took it as a tacit statement that I had given them money? To say that someone or some entity cannot properly handle the money I give them does not mean I gave that person or entity money. It means that should I give them money, they wouldn't handle it well, thus I'm not going to. I can understand if english isn't your first language, but this is a very typical construction. One should be able to understand it by the fifth grade. Hope that clears up any confusion. if it doesn't help I highly recommend taking a break from the internet while you brush up on your reading comprehension
You should try out Infuse. It’s $10/year and I’ve been loving it. Better than any other app I’ve tried and at under $1 a month worth it for me.
Maybe I'll give it a try. Happen to know if it supports dual subtitles so I can watch foreign films with my gf who doesn't speak english?
It seems like in the last few years the company's focus has primarily been on adding things to Plex that I do not want as part of Plex. And not adding the audiobook support that I do want.
Look up audiobookshelf if you're willing to mess with docker a bit and forward a port or two. It's open source and does a, wonderful job.
Audiobookshelf is great
There was a webtools addon that could add this. I think it's still out there but I forget the name. I know plugins were disabled, but this did still and does still work for me.
I have tried the plugins, they just don't work as well as smart audiobook player.
I have a huge audiobook library, I was fully prepared to do all the processes to move and organize my mess of a library to get it working with Plex. I'm sure you've seen the GitHub guide floating around.
But when it came time to sit down and configure my server for audiobooks, ebooks, tv, movies, and music, I found that audiobookshelf just did a way better job with less of a headache. My current stack is Beet.io with audible support to move my already downloaded library into a better folder and naming structure. Once I get those all finished I won't have to use this step. This gets stuff about ~80% of the way there except when the source is really messed up.
From there I have Readarr looking at the Beets destination folder and managing downloads. This is pretty good for getting most of the rest of the info with some clean up and is similar to setting up other Arrs. Then audiobookshelf for final tweaks and browsing/downloading.
It's quite a pain to ingest an initial large library but for new downloads it's been pretty seamless. Way easier and more consistent than having to do most of this anyway plus fight with Plex. I do still want them to add support, though.
The audiobookshelf app is pretty good for browsing and downloading but I think the player is way worse than Smart Audiobook Player. But what I do is just use the audiobookshelf app to download the books to Smart's library folder and then use the best player app for listening.
Thanks! I'll check out audiobookshelf.
Look up audiobookshelf if you're willing to mess with docker a bit and forward a port or two. It's open source and does a wonderful job.
I used Plex for years, and it is the superior product (if you pay) compared to Open Source alternatives. However, after seeing Plex's recent incentive pivots and looking for investors I jumped shipped to Jellyfin. The thermometor of enshittification is indicating that Plex is on its way out.
Folks who haven't looked at alternatives yet, do so now.
Jellyfin, caddy and duckdns can get you all the benefits Plex offers without needing to use their servers for logging in
Literally the only two things keeping me from jumping ship are the multi-user support and Plexamp.
Jellyfin has support for mutliple users
If you are on Android there is Finamp for Jellyfin. It's not quite as nice but it is clean and free. There is also Symfonium which is I think $3 but it is even nicer than Plexamp IMO. The great thing about Jellyfin is there are many options.
And Jellyfin has third party music player apps for android and IOS.
Jellyfin has both of those things, only slightly worse.
I don't think the multi user is worse, I prefer the way Jellyfin does it. Finamp is definitely a downgrade though.
Well shit… it seems the recent rash of enshittification continues. I didn’t realize Plex was doing this so I guess an exit strategy is required. Thanks for the heads up.
I'm a lifetime Plex pass subscriber and I've also used Kodi and Emby.. as far as I can remember at the moment I've never really looked into Jellyfin tho... Does it support OTA DVR with a tuner card like Plex?
That's my must have at this point.
Jellyfin is an Emby fork, so it should support everything Emby does and more; I've never fucked around with OTA with it, but as far as I know it can do it
It is? TIL, that's pretty interesting.
Emby was originally open-source, but went closed-source; Jellyfin forked from the last open-source version
Good to know...
But according to this article from March it looks like it doesn't support PCI or USB tuners unfortunately.
Also sounds like it's quite a ways behind Plex still in terms of UI, bugginess, and ease of use when away from home.
I'll be sticking with Plex for now.
The last time I was having problems with Plex and authentication I installed emby alongside it
Emby was a hell of a lot more responsive, Plex seemed to be more compatible with, well everything.
I use live TV and DVR so I think I might miss that on jellyfin
Jellyfin does support live tv and recording
Well they also spent the past 10 years building 80% stuff we never wanted
And forcing logins to go through their centralized servers.
Plex login system is such a nightmare. There's a mix of something that is local, some that are online but displayed as local, and some that are completely online. I gave up on Plex when I can't figure out how to remove an old Plex instance that somehow the clients still connecting to instead of the new server.
Doesn't Plex still use Python 2 as well?
I'm honestly surprised that Plex has revenue in the "double-digit millions"
Oh well, worse-case scenario- at least we already have Jellyfin.
I really hope Jellyfin gets a leg up soon, as a Plex Lifetime Pass owner I have become more and more discontent with the platform.
When I paid for my personal licence, it included downloads for all my users, now its cutoff to only older users. I had expected that Plexamp would only be restricted to me while it was being developed, but it remains locked away from my users should never individually have a reason to subscribe for just themselves.
I bought my licence to support the company for the use of my server and I feel like they've only downgraded my service in the last couple years. Getting new users to jump through all of the hoops with their pinned content, only to have them ask me why there are adverts on my movies is frustrating.
I feel like very little has improved in the core product in years, my users default settings are still transcoding to the same bitrate, or 10x its bitrate. Every time I have made a valid suggestion on the old subreddit, the Plex devs had plenty of time to reject any and all criticism.
I don't believe Plex is going to get much better and likely we will see further erosion of our licences as the company only focuses on free users and the FAST service. I will keep checking in on jellyfin and alternatives, hopefully they get a boost soon.
You might give it a try, its a pretty well featured streaming platform. Has a ton of customization for some areas too.
I installed it, but, yet, still use plex instead. Jellyfin does have a native app for my streaming devices too. Plex- just has an interface I prefer at this time.
I'm currently setting up jellyfin as a test run for just my music library to see how the metadata & customisation is managed, currently I'm struggling to merge an artist that has been split and the only suggestions I find is to edit the filenames.
Oooh this is gonna be a big problem for me, thanks for the heads up.
It could still be the learning curve, I don't know for sure if it's not able to merge artists
check your metadata and set the correct artist there. for every issue related to that it has always been shitty (extended) metadata. (with people often claiming "no but it's fine" until they take a real look at it and see that it's shit).
so give it a look and clean that up e.g. with mp3tag and/or musicbrainz picard and you will be good to go.
Jellyfin is way better at subtitles then plex.
I only use plex because jellyfin remote is very difficult, especially when allowing other people on your account
I only use plex because jellyfin remote is very difficult, especially when allowing other people on your account
Jellyfin is so good now. I used to use Plex but I have no need for it now at all.
Know a good way to export/import? I've got a large database with custom artworks etc.
Jellyfin has tools that let you export a watch list from one app and merge it with jellyfin
https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/administration/migrate/
I tried Jellyfin a couple years ago, but it always struggled with ASS (advanced substation alpha) subtitles. I remember it had to burn them on play, or I'd have to use something like SickRage or handbrake or something to pre-burn them, otherwise my relatively modest server would cry. Googling isn't telling me much, anyone know if this has gotten better?
I have no issues. You can either set up automatic transcoding, or enable DirectPlay if your TV (or whatever other client you use) supports the format you're playing.
The one thing stopping me from using jellyfin is that when I press left or right on the remote it doesn't move back/forward a fixed amount like Plex. It goes to the closest :30 or :00 and it also doesn't start playing automatically. Just the most bizarre UX I can't get used to.
Jellyfin NEEDS a plexamp tier music streaming app for me to consider moving unless plex completely self-owns harder than Twitter and reddit combined
I'm currently testing Navidrome, which supports many subsonic based apps, my only issue atm is the lack of client side metadata management.
How bad? If I can download music for local playback, change star ratings, and make playlists, that's probably enough for me to bear it
You may need another tool for metadata management separate from either jellyfin/navidrome, if either failed to match I can't seem to manually match or merge artists. Fairly frequently an album will display an artist in a way that isn't interpreted as the same so it just makes a seperate artist for it with little metadata.
Plex does the same thing, the main difference is that I can manually modify how Plex displays its metadata and tell it who the artist is and that's that.
With the others you have to work hard to modify the names and metadata outside.
Other than song/album ratings, I don't do metadata mangement in Plexamp.
Agreed. Plexamp gave me random album radio and I can't go back to minutes of silence until I realise I have to choose another album.
I know nothing about PlexAmp, but could FinAmp be what you search for? Does Music only and let's you grab your songs for offline usage.
I’ve never used plex or plexamp but I have used Finamp for listening / offline downloading of my music collection from my Jellyfin server. Is this perhaps what you’re looking for? iOS: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/finamp/id1574922594 Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unicornsonlsd.finamp
The first thing Finamp asks me is to input the URL of my server. I use the server both on the LAN when at home and over the internet when out and about. Will Finamp intelligently use the LAN when I'm on the same network if I use the external URL?
Just use your DNS-server and forward it in your LAN to the internal IP
facedesk.gif
why didn't i think of that
I can confidently say that no it will not "intelligently use the LAN" when you're on the same network - I don't know of any service that will...... unless Plex/Plexamp somehow does this?
The solution is as someone else said - use a DNS Server to forward it in your LAN to the internal IP. If you're unsure how to do this, just search how to setup a Hairpin NAT for the router you own. I can confirm that once you set this up, it will work seamlessly with both Finamp and Jellyfin.
There are definitely services that do this. Something that comes to mind that's related to Plex is nzb360, an Android app to connect all your torrent downloaders, usenet downloaders, sonarr/radarr, etc. It has an option for Local Connection Switching that, if enabled, will switch to using the local IP of your services when in the same LAN and go back to public IP when you're not on the same LAN
I guess it doesn't really matter if it does since I'm only in it for the music..
Local DNS to point at your reverse proxy works just fine.
Can it do gapless playback?
Gapless? Do you mean downloading media for offline playback? Yes:
Just be prepared for the space requirements of your media library as you may find your phone quickly running out of storage if you have a lot of high res audio:
No, sorry, I mean: can it play sequential tracks with no pause in between them? Like when listening to Dark Side of the Moon, for the classic example.
Jellyfin needs apps I can install on my parent's TV, that's the only thing that keeps me on Plex.
Unfettered Capitalism breeds emshitification.
Why build and keep a great product when shareholders will always push for more growth and higher revenue. Even if that means laying off your best devs and pissing off users.
Is this company even publicly traded? I don't think so.
Doesn't need to be publicly traded to have those issues.
Yeah, case in point: Reddit.
But they want to, that's why they're started
Why are all these large tech companies failing this week? Is AI really decimating the internet on all fronts?
They’ve been failing for a while. It’s capitalism failing, not some magic tech entity concept like AI.
and it's by design too
The problem isn't AI, but interest rates.
Silicon Valley lived for a long time with an investor market that didn't really have anything better to invest their money in, so they would invest in a series of Internet companies with the hope that one of them would make it rich. Now that lending money can make you more money, it isn't worth it to invest in companies or ideas that don't make money right now.
The VC funding that Silicon Valley relied on dried up. If you are a startup, you need to be profitable before you burn through your cash. If you aren't a startup, you don't have to worry as much about new tech cannibalizing your core businesses, so they are more willing to cut product lines.
It's been going on for nearly a year now, but the layoffs tend to happen in waves because the stock market and investors in general tend to be very reactionary. Also a lot of companies released their quarterly earnings recently
investors / business / money people are stupid hogs who are blindly guessing and making the stingiest possible choices at any turn, they don't know shit or do shit
Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered
lol you posted this 4 times. Lemmy.world was really buggy, I think I did the same a few times before moving instances
Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered
Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered
Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered
Money isn’t as cheap anymore as it used to be. Tech companies have been struggling for about a year now. Even the larger ones have to show profits these days (not defending them, just explaining as I’m working in tech as well)
Its not a tech issue, its a finance issue.
The tech industry has always been highly speculative. What we saw in the 2010s was only made possible through venture capital and high digital advertising budgets.
Now that there's uncertainty and investments are expensive due to high interest rates, VC and advertisers are pulling back. As a result, we're seeing a bunch of business models that have never been viable on their own have to try and support themselves for the first time.
It's a greed issue. They are expecting 30% growth, and aren't satisfied with that, so they are cutting jobs too.
Growth isn't profit, if I lose $0.10 per widget and I grow my business from selling 1 million widgets per year to 1.1 million widgets per year I'm losing more money than I was before the growth.
I don’t know if I’d call Plex a “large tech company” though
Yeah they had ~175 employees in January, and this layoff was like 37 people. A shame, but not large scale
I would as they store massive amounts of data
What do you mean?
Not just this week but the past year or so
During covid many companies hired a ton of people due to the growth of many industries, particulalry consumer electronics and platforms like Plex and Netflix, and places like Amazon, Google, etc. Because many people were off work, there was greater demand. Obsiously infinite growth is not possible, and when things slowed down after covid, they moved to dump the employees they no longer needed
It doesnt necessarily have anything to do with AI; AI implementations are still extremely rough and moves to implement them at this point means providing an inferior experience. That said, some companies have been implementing AI, which will likely lead to worsening layoffs down the line
The current prime interest rate means it’s more expensive to borrow money right now, which means PE and VC are not throwing money at tech firms that aren’t traditionally profitable anymore. Plex likely runs at a steep loss and relies on private capital to stay afloat.
The era of free money is over. You can easily get >4% returns just parking your money in fixed income, so investors want to see cash flow and the easiest way to boost margin is to cut your largest expense (aka headcount). AI is just a convenient excuse.
It isn't AI, it's the economy. Companies that got money from investors regardless of their profitability now have to survive on their own profits which forces them to restructure
Corporate Greed
Seriously. They expect 30% growth? They can afford a few salaries.
They don't want to invest in the core program features anymore, they only want FAST viewer growth & content acquisition.
What they want is inevitably going to make us their competition, Plex's FAST userbase growth will be the death of the original product.
Growing revenue 30% isn't without cost, it may cost substantially more for that 30% than it does currently, it could be a 50% increase in spend. They may have a revenue of "double-digit millions" but that still before any spend has occurred... what they make in net profit is going to be significantly less.
That's what I thought at first but it seems even with the growth they won't be profitable, which means they still don't break even if I understand correctly. In any case I don't wanna defend a corporate entity, just enrich the reflexion if possible. If the whole enterprise is not at risk of collapsing, your priority should be your employees.
I only still have a plex server running for audiobook support with the app Prologue. Everything else is happy in Jellyfin and and has been rock solid. Plex went way to corporate and it creeped me out.
Plex DMCA'd my private server a few months ago.
So I cancelled my Plex Pass and moved on to greener pastures.
They seem to be doing everything they can to get rid of their foundational userbase so they can attract... Ad supported free TV watchers?...
What morons are running the show in Silicon Valley?
Wait, what? What were you seeding?
Seriously, I've never heard of Plex giving a shit what you share on a private server. So much so that people sell access to their servers. Makes me wonder if our boy here was up to something more illegal than piracy. 💀
I would expect that to get you a knock on the door, not a DMCA notice, as DMCA notices require someone to claim copyright
There are a ton of Plex servers that sell access to their libraries to make some money back. They’re generally called “Plex Shares” on the internet (and, while I don’t want to point people to Reddit I know that r/plexshares is a thing, for example).
So there are a lot of services that have all of their Plex servers point to one enormous library and then they sell access. It’s basically Netflix, but through Plex.
Plead has definitely been cracking down on this recently. Especially around last Christmas I was seeing servers banned every day. I assume this is what OP was doing, selling access to their server and Plex caught on. I know you mentioned selling access to servers but I’m guessing it depends on scale. Maybe OP Got big enough to be on Plex’s radar. One of the sites I use has thousands of users, 24/7 support, etc. It’s a whole business. I think this is what Plex has been trying to stop
Agreed... Absolutely insane if true
Copy/paste mostly from another reply I made:
I have a huge audiobook library, I was fully prepared to do all the processes to move and organize my mess of a library to get it working with Plex. I'm sure you've seen the GitHub guide floating around.
But when it came time to sit down and configure my server for audiobooks, ebooks, tv, movies, and music, I found that audiobookshelf just did a way better job with less of a headache. My current stack is Beet.io with audible support to move my already downloaded library into a better folder and naming structure. Once I get those all finished I won't have to use this step. This gets stuff about ~80% of the way there except when the source is really messed up.
From there I have Readarr looking at the Beets destination folder and managing downloads. This is pretty good for getting most of the rest of the info with some clean up and is similar to setting up other Arrs. Then audiobookshelf for final tweaks and browsing/downloading.
It's quite a pain to ingest an initial large library but for new downloads it's been pretty seamless. Way easier and more consistent than having to do most of this anyway plus fight with Plex.
The audiobookshelf library is really great and can pull audiobook specific information from a lot of sources automatically. You can browse by series or narrator or genre too and if you listen through their app or through the browser it syncs your progress which is nice.
The audiobookshelf app is pretty good for browsing and downloading but I don't like the player as much as my usual one. But you can just point the download at whatever folder your favorite player uses.
Since you're already using Plex for audiobooks you can probably skip all these steps straight to audiobookshelf if your folder structure already matches
https://beets.io
I’ve tried Audiobookshelf and it just wasnt for me. I hadn’t used Beet with it, but my issue was never really the organization part, more the playback part. I can’t remember exactly what features were lacking in ABS, but I do remember being disappointed in it. To the point where I spun up a dedicated plex server JUST for my audiobooks, and to since then, I’ve been incredibly happy with the UX.
I didn’t know that beets supports books. I used that tool like… honestly at least a decade ago to organize a giant music library I had, and it was a great tool. Thanks for sharing!
Also, I just wish Jellyfin supported audiobooks in the same manner that Plex does. Then I’d be back to one media server running.
I hadn't heard of Prologue and it looks amazing, unfortunately it's not on Android.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.github.mattpvaughn.chronicle
If I remember correctly, I think I’ve read there is an Android equivalent. Prologue is pretty flawless.
There doesn't appear to be an Android version of this specific app, so it would have to be under a different name.
Check out Chronicle: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.github.mattpvaughn.chronicle Haven't used it much, but my experience has been flawless.
There's also Bookcamp: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.bookcamp.android, but I think that's subscription based.
Wow, it’s almost like those free channels the put all over my Plex that nobody wants was was a bad investment. Still love Plex as a service but I find it hard to see any value in FAST.
30% growth after a 20% layoff huh?
Makes the growth 30% easier when it's 20% less!
Wasn't even aware that Plex was still around. Swapped to Jellyfin years ago.
Jellyfin's the way to go IMO, screw Plex and their constant BS.
Yeah, I switched to Jellyfin ages ago and never looked back. Haven't really run into anything I'd want to do that Jellyfin can't do but Plex can.
The evil clone of XBMC is finally in its death throes (yes I’m still bitter about that). No worry, Jellyfin is better.
Wow that takes me back lol
007 Nightfire softmod crew checking in. Kodi has been making the best htpc for more than a decade now. I love me some jellyfin, but I'll probably always have a kodi box or two around the house.
Does XBMP ring any bells?
I think Kodi would be more akin to XMBC. What's the relation with Plex?
Kodi IS XBMC. It’s the same team, XBMC changed their name to Kodi once it became unavoidably awkward that no one was running XBMC on actual Xboxes anymore. Plex started as a fork of XBMC but went down the proprietary route and shunned their FOSS roots.
And yet, it is not enough. Perhaps the lesson is to NOT take that VC money if you want your company to survive.
As a long-time Jellyfin user, I've never really understood how Plex makes money providing a handful of additional features over the FOSS alternative.
Plex is available in a lot more app stores than Jellyfin or Emby is. I run a plex server for friends but I use emby for my personal consumption. The reason I continue to use plex is because it's available on all sorts of smart TV's and semi-obscure streaming devices that Jellyfin isn't.
Why use jellyfin when you already have Plex set up?
@steal_your_face @Kushan Because FOSS.
Shit. I'd have moved to Jellyfin already if they had an Apple TV client. If they go under I might have to get a 2nd set top box just to run JF.
It's a paid app, but infuse works very well on apple TV
https://jellyfin.org/posts/client-infuse/
Good tip. Thanks.
They have "Swiftfin" but it's had two updates in two years and it's close to useless
I’ve been using Swiftfin on my Apple TV with zero problems. Its a lot more simple than Plex.
Good tip.
they have an app on apple tv thats been working well with unraid and a jellyfin docker
Why the fuck is Plex even a company? Attention venture capitalists: Get your money grubbing fingers the fuck off decent technologies that should in no way be tied to profit-seeking. We live in a dystopian hellscape.
The problem is that it's public. A private company could very well exist to sell to its users a good service. It being public means it's beholden to the investor's desire for constant growth.
Tell me, what is Plex's Nasdaq ticker?
The problem is that it's public. A private company could very well exist to sell to its users a good service. It being public means it's beholden to the investor's desire for constant growth.
Plex is private though?
Which is which?
well depends who's asking. Are you a shareholder, or a common man?
Can't I be both?
The rhetorical question of the century.
Growth isn’t always revenue. Or an indication of profitability. If anything their model including a lifetime pass is probably not helping.
More people are cutting the cord daily. And plex is the easiest and most accessible option for less technically inclined.
They have also tried HARD to shake the “piracy” links often associated with them and invested heavily in FAST streaming and other freebies folks here care nothing of but are probably slightly more marketable to non tech people n
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020415/what-more-important-business-profitability-or-growth.asp
You better see growth when laying off 20% lol
This doesn’t surprise me. The “features” that keep being added to Plex drive me nuts. I just want to be able to browse and watch from my own library.
Those features are what bring in revenue and I don't blame them for trying to be profitable. You can only get so far on lifetime subscriptions.
As long as they don't abandon the core product so I can continue using it as the awesome media server that it is I have no complaints. They can add all the additional features they want.
DVR, commercial skip, intro and credit detection, plexpy etc... are all awesome features which have been added in the last 5 years or so and enhance the core product.
Hopefully they leave the free features as is, and don't starting going down the road many other companies have to squeeze out profit.
Agreed, but I have a feeling I'll be using Jellyfin in a few years.
Join us; It's fantastic.
Please put some love on the appletv app for the love of god. I had sworn off plex totally based on the jellyfin community evangelists. VERY quickly switched back when I couldn't even select which subtitle I wanted
I tried jellyfin for a short while but was so freaking annoyed by jellyfin users. Yes, I know you love your app but there are some large issues with it too, and I was shouted down repeatedly like I havent seen since Android v apple.
I experienced some of that gatekeeping too. "Oh I'm sorry, did you want a corporate streamer that let's you change your subtitles get lost corpo"
Exactly. It's not even for me but like, I have older family members who use it. I need it to be as easy for them to use as Plex is. Yes I know I can open the terminal and do x y and z, but they are going to just know "if I hit play it should play".
I'll give it another shot with this news, but yeah, was put off by them.
I mean yeah I would very happily move to Jellyfin. It just needs some time to cook. As of now it's got quite a bit of work to do.
FOSS are not monolithic entities. Some individual with the knowledge, skills and free time has to be willing to work on those things. Most people who develop certain features in open source, do so because of a personal interest. If you don't have the skills yourself, you can go find whoever maintains that app or someone willing to contribute and drop them a donation for their continued effort.
Monolithic tech giants accostumed people to pay for services with their private data and attention. As the past year has proven, this wasn't a healthy arrangement and the comeuppance was way overdue. Contribute to the solution, don't just complain about the problem.
Good points, and I try as hard as I can not to be that guy who complains about free community driven software. I see that and I absolutely hate it. That said, if I have a FOSS offering vs a Corpo offering, and the FOSS project has no resources or desire to put resources towards something the corpo offering already has, I will go with the corpos, ethics be damned.
Try emby, much better than jellyfin for me. I had an issue that jellyfin wasn't able to reproduce some of the series that I was watching, or it had severe issues. I had zero issues with emby.
I'll give it a shot. I had written it off before for reasons I don't remember off the top of my head.
edit: oh that's right, it's paid. I'll stick with the free stuff
Sure thing. I had some issues with jellyfin transpiling some series, the Android TV app was unable to skip forward for example, and sometimes it stopped reproducing (WiFi issues, sure but they didn't happen with emby). I only had to pay like 5€ total for the android app, and the server is completely free. I would switch to jellyfin if their streaming app / service were as good, but beiing the only one in the household that cares, having already paid the single payment to emby and being the one that has to fix issues on movie night while my partner is side eyeing me for changing shit again, I won't bother for a good while
(^_^')Hahaheheheh, aaahhhhh...
wipes eyes
Anyway, thanks for the morning chuckle.
If they're trying to appease shareholders, then I feel like the enshittification is just starting. I've got Emby Premiere (webhooks were paywalled and are quite useful) and like that I have an off-ramp to Jellyfin if they start heading down a similar path.
Great, let them burn. I am a plexpass lifetime sub, but switched to Jelly. Opensource for the win.
I hated using Plex. They make you suffer unless you pay way too much for what the service is worth. Jellyfin has been a far more pleasant experience.
Jellyfin would be fine for “just me”. Unfortunately I need the media server to be super simple, so that the rest of my house can navigate without issues. Unfortunately IME Jellyfin is not there… yet.
I love it’s growth and I keep a close eye, but I’m still mainly using Plex for now. I run Emby and JF alongside it as well. As it currently stands, I think from an end user perspective it’s Plex > Emby > Jellyfin, but I’m looking forward to the day I can fully move to JF.
That said, I think they’re all getting really close.
Where do the users in ur house struggle? My family loves it. I was able to remedy all of their complaints with shitty band-aid fixes, but they work and they like and use it.
The biggest thing was syncing watch states across multiple servers. We have access to a number of Plex servers and it’s super simple to have the state of each episode synced & saved so you don’t need to think about it.
I tried a few plugins for Jellyfin but could never quite get there.
Outside of that we’ve had some other smaller issues. Not to be rude but the Android TV app is… bad. We have a lot of issues trying to fast forward / rewind in the app. Many times fast forwarding completely freezes playback, but if I fast forward to a point, hit back to go back to the episode page, then hit “resume from ” it works great. So jumping from minute 1 to minute 10 doesn’t work, but going from min 1 to min 10, closing the episode, then hitting “Resume from minute 10” works great.
It’s a lot of small frustrating things like that. However, Jellyfin definitely has its upsides. It plays high bitrate / high res files more smoothly than Plex for sure, both from a local and remote network. I’m not against it, it just feels more like “something for a tech guy” and less like “something for the whole family” right now to me. I look forward to the day I can switch without concern though.
It's interesting you say that because jellyfin tracks my familys watch times better than netflix. I will agree the apps are bad. I normally use a browser view on my xbox instead of the app lol. The only issue ive experienced is on one of my old smart tvs fast forwarding and pausing doesn't work, but i chalk that up to it being a 9 year old smart tv.
Whew I'm glad I just started up my jellyfin server!
Plex has been going downhill for a bit now. FAST is killing it.
I'm not sure how streaming compares to your own curated content. I mean sure in overall convenience for the average person FAST wins, but that's not the core audience for Plex. If they're competing with FAST then it would mean there was a major shift in it's users and I don't think it has. Nobody who's enjoyed having a NAS full of on demand content (and invested time and hardware) will just chuck it and go "ah yes streaming random stuff with ads was better after all".
If you ask me, Plex should take a hard look at what Emby and Jellyfin are doing right because that's their main competition. I understand they have to make money but locking everything behind their remote server is fundamentally flawed when I can't access a server sitting two feet away from me without a major detour over the internet. They should have integrated with existing solutions like Authelia, reverse proxies and Talescale not piss against the wind.
Fully agree
Yeah this is one of the reasons I don't like companies that profit directly of of pirating. It never ends well and eventually someone is going to figure out they can just buy the company instead of competing on convenience.
FAST?
Free ad-supported streaming television
This is my problem as well. My old-ass Samsung TV has Plex, and after Samsung totally fucked up smart view, it's my best alternative. Oh well, maybe I need to invest in a dongle of some sort.
Good news! There is a Jellyfin Tizen build available and it works great. Check it out.
There is a relatively high barrier for this as you do need to build, sign, and push it to your TV.
There used to be a Tizen app, but Jellyfin team had many issues with Samsung. Maybe a Kodi plugin would work?
One of the main things that made me make the switch to Jellyfin last year was the constant pushing of the ad-supported and other internet based streaming content. I was getting tired of pinning my local media libraries only to have them buried at the bottom of the list again under all the other streaming content after the client apps would update on my family's Rokus. Hardware transcoding is also a nice bonus since I only used Plex's free tier.
My elderly parents are responsible for some FAST views thinking that they were watching something from my library.
I never really watch FAST but aren't most of it softcore porns 😂
That would be better than any FAST I’ve seen.
In the article. Free Ad Supported sTreaming = FAST.
All the embedded LIVE TV or Movies from Plex are all ad supported streaming media not coming from your own Plex server.
I don't want any of that on my Plex instance and the focus on FAST has been a clear shift in strategy.
My girlfriend asked me why she gets ads on Plex, first i didn't believe her, but then she showed me them, as a lifetime customer, i was furious until i found out that she was watching something outside my library.
This is a feature, but they should tag it much more obvious.
oh that's right. Shit is fucking annoying. I blocked all of that out, which is why I forgot I wanted to switch to Jellyfin in the first place lol.
It's in the post body, Free Ad-supported Streaming.
Hopefully that doesn’t mean we are going to see a slowdown in personal media features.
It will. As someone who only uses Plex, I’m sure the company will have to strive so hard after monetization that they’ll ruin the product and force us onto an open source alternative. I like Plex, but I don’t expect it to last after seeing all the other tech companies fail at this.
Wasn't Plex originally a fork of XBMC?
Both are forks of XBMC.
we already have seen a slowdown in core usability features in favour of chasing new customers.
“This is by far the hardest decision we’ve had to make at Plex,” CEO Keith Valory said in a statement
As someone who’s been laid off, it always annoys me when people at the top try to act all hurt. Their name was never brought up as a potential layoff. The decision wasn’t nearly as hard as getting laid off.
Those who made the decision to go after the FAST market and lose money aren’t the ones getting laid off, it’s the ones who followed and built it. The risky outcome was never on the heads of those deciding to take the risk.
‘Some of you may die, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take’
That doesn’t make it easy, knowing you have to make a choice that negatively impacts people that have dedicated time and parts of their lives to your project. Having to make a choice that impacts others is not easy and only a sociopath wouldn’t give a shit. Despite what many think on sites like this, often many leaders, especially in smaller companies like this that started as a passion project are not those types of people etc. They often don’t have the same personality traits you HAVE to have to climb a ladder at say, IBM or Dell etc.
That’s not to say it doesn’t suck for the people being laid off. And that you can’t have empathy and sympathy for both sides. It’s not a competition or a binary choice.
Oh boo hoo. They still get to go to work tomorrow. They still get a paycheck. They don't have to go through the hassle of job seeking, interviewing, and the rejection letters. They don't have to go home and wonder if they'll make it through this time. They don't have to see the worry in their spouse's eyes, wondering if they will be able to pay the bills in the future. The worst they'll usually get is one of the people they're screwing over telling them, deservedly, to fuck off.
And no, two weeks severance isn't enough. It's almost an insult really, as it can take that long to get interviews scheduled.
That’s missing the point entirely. The statement isn’t playing a victim card at all. It’s recogition that it’s a shitty position to put someone in.
Expressing empathy and sympathy for those that the decision affects and stating/iterating that it was not an easy choice isnt something I take as “woe is me” or playing the victim card.
The outcome and road ahead sucks for those affected no matter what. But sometimes all anyone can do is show some mercy and not be a dick with how they approach it.
Now, that said, it’s entirely situational and I don’t actually know the culture at plex as an employer (only as a customer). So this could totally be nothing more than lip service.
But understanding and differentiating the difference between lip service and sincerity does matter.
Empathy doesn't pay the bills. I can't call up the bank and say "hey I can't pay the bill this month, but my ex-boss is really sorry about all this."
Google and Friends gave people 6 months of severance. Thats enough time to get your life back on track. But two weeks is basically just "here have another single payslip to go away forever."
Again not the point and no one said it did. But doing things with respect matters. And nothing lasts forever
Also 2 weeks is pretty standard, and isn’t terrible in an at will situation. Have you ever given a company 6 months notice?
Also if you are working full time at a company like Plex and living hand to mouth that’s not really on plex.
How are layoffs respectful? "Yeah we overspent or aren't quite as profitable as we'd like, so we've determined that you're redundant or unneeded or some other adjective that shouldn't ever be used on a human, and so we're going to have security perp walk you out of the office like you were caught stealing something, and we'll have someone box up your shit and break some of it and mail it to you in 4-8 weeks. Please sign this paper that says you wont talk about what we did to you and we'll toss a few bucks your way."
I've even seen companies where people got informed they were laid off when they couldn't log into their Slack account or whatever else. No other notice. Just dripping with respect.
I didn't get laid off from Plex. I've been laid off from other companies, large and small, and had friends laid off while I was a "survivor". My favorite time I was laid off was a few months after my wife had a baby, and a week after I told my boss she was pregnant again. That one extra paycheck sure helped me pay off the 2 month NICU stay for baby #1! I really felt respected by that company. Really liked it when the CEO sent out a form letter talking about how hard it was on him and how he lost a whole nights sleep figuring out who to screw over, instead of cutting costs in other areas.
In the overwhelming majority of cases, the CEOs are unwilling to make any personal sacrifices, but perfectly willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods. How often have you seen a CEO say "we missed numbers this quarter, so I'm taking a 20% pay cut" or "We realized we don't need a gigantic downtown office with coffee bars on each floor, so we're going full remote and saving millions." Instead its always "We're cutting 20% of the workforce, so sorry if you're one of them!"
Those at the top are the sociopaths lol.
So anyone that has grown within a company and into leadership or executive positions are sociopaths full stop?
That’s not really a healthy outlook to have tbh.
It's not a black and white thing. it's a probability thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5389508#
I’m aware of the theory. And even acknowledged it in my initial reply in this very chain….
Oh, ok. Alright then
Of course it’s not an easy decision. But don’t go all “woe is me” when you’re not the one actually suffering. Own the mistake. Promise to do better.
Expressing empathy and sympathy for those that the decision affects and stating/iterating that it was not an easy choice isnt something I take as “woe is me” or playing the victim card.
The outcome and road ahead sucks for those affected no matter what. But sometimes all anyone can do is show some mercy and not be a dick with how they approach it.
Now, that said, it’s entirely situational and I don’t actually know the culture at plex as an employer (only as a customer). So this could totally be nothing more than lip service.
But understanding and differentiating the difference between lip service and sincerity does matter.
Empathy and sympathy is talking about how awful it is for people to have to lose their job. Especially in this market. What they’re doing is talking about themselves and how difficult it was for THEM to make the decision. I don’t care about them. I care about those who lost their livelihood.
You’re right that it wouldn’t be an easy decision. It must be awful. But losing your job is still way worse.
When COVID started really popping off, management at my old job gathered all the technicians together in the shop. They read a bunch of names off a piece of paper while everyone stood around confused, then they said "If you heard your name, this is your last day with the company." Absolutely heartless.
They then put out a canned public message about how hard the decision was, and how every employee is a member of the family.
If Plex were to go down, how easy is it to transfer my setup to jellyfin?
You can try jellyfin alongside plex, just install it and point it to your media. Then you can see if it works for you
Literally just did this on Saturday. It was easy to do and I'm not seeing any significant changes in resource utilization. I am enjoying being able to directly download media onto my phone with Infuse, however.
The only issue with Jellyfin for me is that it keeps transcoding my media. I just want direct stream it my client is capable but whyyyyy transcoding ittttt error for no reason.
It can definitely do direct stream since I use it on my setup. I'll check out how when I got home.
I'm pretty sure there is a setting (settings) to turn that off.
Are you using the app or a browser? I found that when I was using the browser it would transcode but when using the app it would be direct play.
The jellyfin community is probably best for that question.
You can try jellyfin alongside plex, just install it and point it to your media. Then you can see if it works for you
Well, it's pretty unsurprising considering all companies are doing the same.
I've given a chance to Jellyfin but it's really frustating how it simply refused to play video files without any descriptive error logs. I think it mostly doesn't work properly on HEVC files (I think Edge is the only browser that properly supports x265) and my Android TV also doesn't play the damn thing.
Also adding that video files from the same release (which assumed are the same encoder), they either work perfectly or just refuse to work :(
I do not pay for Plex but I considered in the past getting a lifetime sub x)
I've had a lifetime licence for a couple years, I'm becoming more and more bitter about the service but jellyfin isn't as appropriate for the people I share with.
Plex isn't improving its core service, in favour of focusing on new FAST customers, but there just isn't an alternative so they get to abuse their position.
After having checked out Plex, Jellyfin and Emby I've decided the latter was still my favorite. Jellyfin just isn't there yet, lack of built in image-scrubbers, intro-outro-detection and quality clients just makes it inconvenient for me. Plex's external authentication makes it a no go for me.
Emby is the only one that's focused on what it tries to achieve and delivers. Also the support team is super helpful and pushes out fixes in a pretty good time. Not FOSS though
HEVC files work fine in JF. I stream to a smart (android) TV, Shield and windows app. You need to have transcoding enabled though for smart tvs and browsers which isn't really an option for docker unless you have the grunt on your host.
Docker does work for transcoding but because I'm using Proxmox it's slightly more complicated since I want my windows VMs to not be a slog and run mediaservers on a iGPU.
Atleast on Plex it can do software transcode and not be bothered by an annoying "cannot play this media on this device". This was a few months ago and I still run both but Plex serves me fine fot the time being
Just curious, for everyone saying they switched to jellyfin, were you using the free version of plex?
I had a Plex subscription and switched to Jellyfin. Same reasons as everyone else- it was all about Plex's content and recommendations running on my equipment when the whole point for me was to have something with only my own content.
Well I use both (server and user) and plex is imo more stable with Google Cast wich is 90% of my use case. Mobile viewing is way more superior with jellyfin tho, but nothing beats plexamp
Plex is more stable in most regards, we all would have happily moved over to jellyfin if it was nearly as comparable.
It really isn't, in my experience.
Plex was always unusable when my Internet was down (offline mode refused to work, no matter what I did) and their insistence on forcing the metadata search through their own cache meant it was often outdated or simply broken.
Yes. There was a bit of a learning curve, but my Jellyfin now works better than Plex ever did (and I finally have GPU acceleration working).
Yearly pass sub here. Canceled and will be exploring jellyfin and emby
I too cancelled my Plex pass about 6mo ago after a colleague introduced me to JellyFin. I imagine the huge hit ISPs have had on tracking torrent downloads is also curtailing their customer base. (Along with many people abandoning pirating and just paying for the convenience of various streaming services).
Been thinking about migrating off Plex for a bit with performance hits, apps shoving their channels my way and their seeming decline from personal media. After propping up Audiobookshelf for audiobooks, now I’m considering Funkwhale for music and Jellyfin for video but I’ll have to test a bit more.
Plex has been crap for at least 5 years now. Switched to Emby a few years ago and couldn't be happier.
Honestly have no idea why Plex still has such a huge fanbase. It's so commercialized and gross.
I don't have anything bad to say of Plex as a company, and I wish them luck on their endeavor, but if they ever fall, I just hope they open source their software...
No, they couldn't do that. They'd have to sell every asset to pay the employees or give their ceo a golden parachute or any number of things aside from actually open sourcing. Anyway, Jellyfin is open source and just needs to work to reach feature parity.
If they saw the writing on the wall they could open-source before they went into bankruptcy. However, that could open them up to lawsuits if it was deemed they were "destroying" their assets before they could be claimed by investors and/or creditors, but that's a big legal gray area depending on what you can show in court. And venture capitalists have better lawyers than bankrupt companies typically do.
The shareholders would most likely call that theft
This a 1/1000 likely outcome. Bankrupted companies will typically sell assets including IP and software to other companies to pay creditors (which excludes open sourcing them). And well before bankruptcy, any financial issues will cause Plex to be modified to support shitty monetization to the point that you won't want the source code amyway.
Sorry for the bad outlook, better that you be ready than to hope for a unicorn.
I would switch in a heartbeat if it didn't use .NET. Plex is a giant heap of trash, but at least it doesn't eat RAM.
What's mono in thos context? Google is failing me.
I am mistaken. It now uses .NET Core, but before it uses to use Mono as the .NET runtime. Either way, both are pigs.
Plex is dead
Making a tool for people to use is fine to seek profits. The trouble with Plex is that they’re going the Reddit route of trying so hard to generate profit that they neglect their core users and the experience that they’re willing to pay for.
How is it making double digit millions? Through deals with companies and plex passes?