American and urban? I've noticed that all a lot of black people in and near cities pronounce the L. I always get a chuckle and they look at me like I'm a pompous British/French general from the 1800s or an idiot that can't pronounce Ls.
Yea I'm finding the bulk of the Vermont accent is just stressing the beginning of words and mumbling the least letter. So lie we kinn a sou liee thihs all the timee. It was pretty jarring moving to Florida after growing up around folks that talked like that.
fun fact: the S in island is completely fucking made up, the original spelling was "iland" with "i" being cognate with "ö" in swedish. It basically means island land and the only reason why there's an S in there is because some shithead thought it was related to the french word "isle" and felt that INCORRECT idea warranted changing the spelling.
I think what you said is slightly wrong. Island and isle are both English words that seem to have no ethymological connection. However close semantic relation of "isle" might have cause the introduction of the "s" at some point. Isle itself probably comes from latin "insula". The French still have only one word "Île". Germans have "Eiland" and "Insel".
island [OE] Despite their similarity, island has no etymological connection with isle (their resemblance is due to a 16th-century change in the spelling of island under the influence of its semantic neighbour isle). Island comes ultimately from a prehistoric Germanic *aujō, which denoted 'land associated with water,' and was distantly related to Latin aqua 'water'. This passed into Old English as īeg 'island,' which was subsequently compounded with land to form īegland 'island'. By the late Middle English period this had developed to iland, the form which was turned into island. (A diminutive form of Old English īeg, incidentally, has given us eyot 'small island in a river' [OE].)
Isle [13] itself comes via Old French ile from Latin insula (the s is a 15th-century reintroduction from Latin). Other contributions made by insula to English include insular [17], insulate [16], insulin, isolate [via Italian) [18], and peninsula [16].
etymologically the word is made up of "i" and "land", the "s" was added by some idiot in the 15th century. "i" is cognate with "ö" in swedish which simply means "island", so just pull a power move and drop all the other letters completely.
I already do this with the word "solder" which confuses my fellow Americans greatly. They seem to think I'm lying that the L is sounded out in some other English speaking countries.
I just think the American pronunciation (SAW-dur) sounds wrong.
It was friends and YouTube content creators from the UK that made me realize that dropping the L isn't done everywhere else. I grew up thinking that it was just one of those English words that break all the pronunciation rules.
You say that, but there's the anachronistic nautical slang "soger" for an inept or lazy sailor. It came from the soldiers assigned to British navy ships, who did not participate in the sailing of the vessel.
I'm in the US and I've never heard anyone pronounce it "SAW-dur" in person or in any form of media. You are supposed to pronounce the L in the General American accent.
If you use Google's word pronunciation tools, both General American and Received Pronunciation pronounce the L in soldier.
Edit: I like the downvotes to all my comments without anyone showing me people pronouncing it that way.
I think this is a misunderstanding. The poster you're replying to is talking about solder, not soldier (which you wrote, assuming that's the word you meant). Solder, as in a soldering iron, is pronounced Saw-dur in the US. Ya dingus 😉
Can you link me a to a clip or a pronunciation source that has someone pronouncing it like that? I've never heard that anywhere in my life. I'm guessing it's a less common accent.
Geuss I ain't ever gonna pronounce this damn language correctly . You can't blame this on French tho because in that language it's saumon pronounced somon. They didn't drop a consonant in the middle of the word.
The word comes ultimately from the Latin salmon, but we got it by way of French, as we did with so many other food words. The French, as was their wont, had swallowed up the Latin L in their pronunciation, so by the time we English borrowed the word, it was saumon, no L in the spelling and so no L in the pronunciation.
Pronouncing the word based on how another language says it is strange to say the least.
Imagine if train had the same treatment. In French it's a short tr-un instead of English tr-ayn.
Pronouncing the word based on how another language says it
French influence on English is rather unique in this regard. French was the language of the upper class, so an effort was made for English to sound more French when possible.
My favorite example of how this has carried into modern day is the expressions "cordial reception" and "hearty welcome." They both effectively mean the same thing, but the first, which is latin-derived, sounds fancy, while the second, which is germanic-derived, sounds more informal.
The word comes ultimately from the Latin salmon, but we got it by way of French, as we did with so many other food words. The French, as was their wont, had swallowed up the Latin L in their pronunciation, so by the time we English borrowed the word, it was saumon, no L in the spelling and so no L in the pronunciation.
I speak Spanish and it's wild to have no many randomly decided silent letters in words. We have the H that is silent always, and that's it. We have Salmón, with the intonation in the o, and we of course pronounce the L. I can't even say salmon without the L while not sounding stupid.
English took over a lot of French words, originally written and pronounced like the French words, for example saumon (salmon). Then someone decided to go back to how the words were written in Latin (salmo), but they kept pronouncing it more like the French word.
Akshully, the density plays its part becase of Archimedes force an atmosphere is applying to an object. The less dense an object is, the lighter it will weight for the same mass. E.g. the air baloon with helium inside will have a mass even higher that an empty one because of added helium mass, yet it may float up thus having a negative weight (in the atmosphere)
You know what? You're absolutely right! We have no future, if climate change doesn't get us in the next 50 years, or the endless crushing of the working classes under late stage capitalism, then the rising new wave of western fascism will when it takes over.
Nothing matters any more, let's just do whatever we want <3
Partly wish I had Twitter in order to commend them on their choice of Frisky Dingo profile pic, but I'd rather pull the pubes off my scrotum one-by-one with tweezers than visit Twitter so it's not going to happen.
Anybody want to DM OP for me? Or get their pubes removed?
While we are at it, the. The t doesn't sound like a t. The h doesn't sound like an h. The e doesn't sound like an e.
None of the letters sound like how they should when looked at individually. I propose we change this. From now on, each letter gets pronounced as itself in the word the.
We used to have a letter for 'th' (thorn (Þ, þ)), but it was replaced by 'th'. There are people trying to bring back, but I wonder if they just like typing þorn (thorn)
Just spit balling, but maybe the program that does the transcription doesn't just use the image, but instead scans the image, finds the Twitter account shown, and checks the tweet text in the image against the matching actual tweet.
And since it's accessing the actual tweet, maybe that Walmart text is like a profile tag line or something that's attached to the user?
In America a lot of people say "reckonize." In fact, I never hear it pronounced as if there is an actual "g" in the word anymore. I think they're just imitating habits of others but I hope they know that, there really is a "g" in the word (if it comes to having to spell it).
Yeah I've heard it said that way. And it's very "fustrating." (another word that is mispronounced by leaving out the first "r" in frustrating). My big hang up is people always mispronouncing the word "Jewelry" as "Jew-LUH-Ree." It's just the world Jewel with an "ry" on the end - how hard is that to get right!!!!
as a swede whose accent is a hodgepodge of everything between scottish to RP to some vague average of american plus of course swenglish, i have spoken into the void and it spake back.
Thus spake Zarathrustra. (if I spelled that wrong -well, I'm an American). I'd rather not hear any voices out of the void - this whole thing makes me shiver, recalling my lifelong fear of the black void of space and the movie "2001 A Space Odyssey." (Shudders).
.... You were supposed to the whole time ....
Nothing ever mattered? D:
LiNGuIsTiC pResCrIPtiViSm
My wife and I have been on board for decades :)
I... I already did pronounce the L 😔
Freak
American and urban? I've noticed that all a lot of black people in and near cities pronounce the L. I always get a chuckle and they look at me like I'm a pompous British/French general from the 1800s or an idiot that can't pronounce Ls.
In Vermont we also pronounce the L however the N is dropped.
So interesting how different it can be!
Yea I'm finding the bulk of the Vermont accent is just stressing the beginning of words and mumbling the least letter. So lie we kinn a sou liee thihs all the timee. It was pretty jarring moving to Florida after growing up around folks that talked like that.
Next you'll be telling me I should pronounce the L in island as well!
fun fact: the S in island is completely fucking made up, the original spelling was "iland" with "i" being cognate with "ö" in swedish. It basically means island land and the only reason why there's an S in there is because some shithead thought it was related to the french word "isle" and felt that INCORRECT idea warranted changing the spelling.
Yep. It is indeed.
Same with the K in knight, which was added for no fucking reason.Sweden also has an island called Öland which means island land."Knight" used to be pronounced with the "K." It was always there, it's not pronouncing it that's new.
Oh yeah I confused it with some other word.
"Receipt" is a good example. A silent "P" was shoved in there to make it seem more fancy.
That's a better one!
I think what you said is slightly wrong. Island and isle are both English words that seem to have no ethymological connection. However close semantic relation of "isle" might have cause the introduction of the "s" at some point. Isle itself probably comes from latin "insula". The French still have only one word "Île". Germans have "Eiland" and "Insel".
island [OE] Despite their similarity, island has no etymological connection with isle (their resemblance is due to a 16th-century change in the spelling of island under the influence of its semantic neighbour isle). Island comes ultimately from a prehistoric Germanic *aujō, which denoted 'land associated with water,' and was distantly related to Latin aqua 'water'. This passed into Old English as īeg 'island,' which was subsequently compounded with land to form īegland 'island'. By the late Middle English period this had developed to iland, the form which was turned into island. (A diminutive form of Old English īeg, incidentally, has given us eyot 'small island in a river' [OE].)
Isle [13] itself comes via Old French ile from Latin insula (the s is a 15th-century reintroduction from Latin). Other contributions made by insula to English include insular [17], insulate [16], insulin, isolate [via Italian) [18], and peninsula [16].
Can the UN declare that every school needs to replace Island with Iland?
Like that does anything. 🗞️🐯
If only we submitted ourselves to them
i-sand... is-and... isund? iand? Ok, I give up, how are you supposed to pronounce it without the L?
Now that is the real question.
etymologically the word is made up of "i" and "land", the "s" was added by some idiot in the 15th century. "i" is cognate with "ö" in swedish which simply means "island", so just pull a power move and drop all the other letters completely.
Swede caveman sailor 1: What that?
Swede caveman sailor 2: is land
Swede caveman sailor 1: ö
...
You're welcome, I've made all of us dumber...
The i of Oahu? Pen i?
In Swedish it would be Penö, so I suggest Peni...s
You mean the s?
I mean the L. Like in salmon.
You actually pronounce the L in salmon?
Edit...the word actually. But also...my bad.
What if I told you nothing is real
How the fuck am I supposed to eat soup with all of these bent-ass spoons?!
Did you mean bent ass-spoons?
Neo, you must meet The Orifice.
Then you wouldn't really be saying anything.
I already do this with the word "solder" which confuses my fellow Americans greatly. They seem to think I'm lying that the L is sounded out in some other English speaking countries.
I just think the American pronunciation (SAW-dur) sounds wrong.
I don't solder, so I'm no expert, but I've only ever heard it pronounced "sodder" (though agreed, leaving out the "l" sound is an odd choice).
In UK/Australia/NZ we pronounce it as written, with the l.
It was friends and YouTube content creators from the UK that made me realize that dropping the L isn't done everywhere else. I grew up thinking that it was just one of those English words that break all the pronunciation rules.
I am today years old learning that it was spelled with an L and not just a D.
Out of all the different ways Americans pronounce words differently, hearing sodder is the only one that makes me cringe.
Are you sure that place have.. SOBER!
Are you sure people there are sober? As in not drunk.
It’s pronounced “solber”
When high?
"hilgh"
That's almost blackcurrant in Danish: solbær (meaning "sunberries")
What area of the country are you in? I'm on the West Coast and the normal pronunciation is with the L. Pronunciations often depend on region though
In New England I've only ever heard it without the L (like "sodder").
That makes sense given the region
I'm on the west coast, Northern California. Huh.
I always find it odd that Americans pronounce it so weirdly, but that's different cultures with different fresh takes on our language I suppose.
Not to be confused with
soljersoldierhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra7Fa6kE718
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=ra7Fa6kE718
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You say that, but there's the anachronistic nautical slang "soger" for an inept or lazy sailor. It came from the soldiers assigned to British navy ships, who did not participate in the sailing of the vessel.
I'm in the US and I've never heard anyone pronounce it "SAW-dur" in person or in any form of media. You are supposed to pronounce the L in the General American accent.
If you use Google's word pronunciation tools, both General American and Received Pronunciation pronounce the L in soldier.
Edit: I like the downvotes to all my comments without anyone showing me people pronouncing it that way.
I think this is a misunderstanding. The poster you're replying to is talking about solder, not soldier (which you wrote, assuming that's the word you meant). Solder, as in a soldering iron, is pronounced Saw-dur in the US. Ya dingus 😉
Lmao thank you! This is the comment I was looking for. Calling me out for being stupid and making a mistake instead of downvoting without explanation!
Not really, it’s the same as caulk.
Can you link me a to a clip or a pronunciation source that has someone pronouncing it like that? I've never heard that anywhere in my life. I'm guessing it's a less common accent.
Couldn’t even wait longer than an hour to complain about downvotes.
From now on I'll pronounce Worcester as whore Chester.
In a German quizz show, there was the question how to pronounce it and not everyone know
WORSCHESTERSOSSE
I'm surprised anyone knew.
Leave Chester alone, he's just misunderstood!
Yeah. Dude has to earn a living somehow.
You're not supposed to? Not a native English speaker.
No, the L is silent. Thank the French for that.
Samon, really?
Yup.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Yup.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Geuss I ain't ever gonna pronounce this damn language correctly . You can't blame this on French tho because in that language it's saumon pronounced somon. They didn't drop a consonant in the middle of the word.
https://katherinebarber.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-l-in-salmon.html
True, we kept the L, but we got the pronunciation from them.
You mean they swa'ed up the letter? ;)
Pronouncing the word based on how another language says it is strange to say the least. Imagine if train had the same treatment. In French it's a short tr-un instead of English tr-ayn.
French influence on English is rather unique in this regard. French was the language of the upper class, so an effort was made for English to sound more French when possible.
My favorite example of how this has carried into modern day is the expressions "cordial reception" and "hearty welcome." They both effectively mean the same thing, but the first, which is latin-derived, sounds fancy, while the second, which is germanic-derived, sounds more informal.
I know this but didn't fully apprehend how deep the affect was.
If I ever visit an English speaking country I'll have to remember to say half the words in French to sound very haut class. Lol
It hasn't been this way for hundreds of years, so you'll most likely just confuse people! Unless you're in Canada, maybe.
Sallemonne /s
Edit: Looked it up, the French word is actually "saumon". The L in the English word probably isn't from French.
https://katherinebarber.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-l-in-salmon.html
So no, the L isn’t, but the pronunciation is.
No, but you do pronounce it in salmonella. English is not a language governed by logic.
I think it's optional in "salmonella". I was a biology student in college and heard both pronunciations all the time.
you do? i always said it without the l
I speak Spanish and it's wild to have no many randomly decided silent letters in words. We have the H that is silent always, and that's it. We have Salmón, with the intonation in the o, and we of course pronounce the L. I can't even say salmon without the L while not sounding stupid.
You should see Fr*nch.
They only pronounce the vowels and once in a blue moon a consonant.
But it's systematic. In English, it's systemless, complete wild west out there smh
Otherwise known as Choffolo.
English took over a lot of French words, originally written and pronounced like the French words, for example saumon (salmon). Then someone decided to go back to how the words were written in Latin (salmo), but they kept pronouncing it more like the French word.
The ultimate blend of multiple languages that are difficult to learn. We shall make it the universal trade language!
(And I know it doesn't have things like tonal shifts)
Not always, fils....
Oh you must be joking.
There is absolutely zero system in half of French's letter salad!
stares from Portugal
"nh" and "lh" are sounds
Are those like ñ and ll in Spanish, or different?
Yes. You double the letter, we composite it.
No me entra en la cabeza que hagan silenciosa la L de salmón.. hasta te diría que me ofende ligeramente esta información.
You weren't supposed to do that?
Just try to pronounce laugh as it’s spelt. I dare you.
Salmon is a type of ghoti.
Ghoti (fish) is referring to an old Tom Scott video about the inconsistencies of the English language, right?
It has facial hair??
i believe that's a welsh insult
Ich sehe was du tatest hier
https://de.howtopronounce.com/german/lauch
okay I did it. It's pointless to write out what I said. But you get it.
Laowguh-hhhh
🪵-h
Oh sugar, I already do
Salmon in English sounds like semen in Spanish
Are the flavors similar too?
I don't know but id happily consume several kilograms of both
Got a question for you. What's heavier: a kilogramme of salmon or a kilogramme of semen?
Clearly the semen, as it's more dense you can fit more semen in a kilogram than salmon.
/s
Akshully, the density plays its part becase of Archimedes force an atmosphere is applying to an object. The less dense an object is, the lighter it will weight for the same mass. E.g. the air baloon with helium inside will have a mass even higher that an empty one because of added helium mass, yet it may float up thus having a negative weight (in the atmosphere)
The kilogram of semen, cause you have to carry the weight of being a slut
I'd be worried if so.
You know what? You're absolutely right! We have no future, if climate change doesn't get us in the next 50 years, or the endless crushing of the working classes under late stage capitalism, then the rising new wave of western fascism will when it takes over.
Nothing matters any more, let's just do whatever we want <3
Orgy, anyone?
I'll bring the wine.
From which country?
SALMON
what
is it not pronounced /sɔɫ.mən/ (sol-muhn)???
SAM-in
Partly wish I had Twitter in order to commend them on their choice of Frisky Dingo profile pic, but I'd rather pull the pubes off my scrotum one-by-one with tweezers than visit Twitter so it's not going to happen.
Anybody want to DM OP for me? Or get their pubes removed?
Instructions unclear: Dm'd OP my pubes
I mean hey, it's Friday. Why not?
Just as long as I can simultaneously drop the'l' sound from salmonella
Can anyone say the s and the th in Isthmus? It's making my tongue feel funny.
I always pronounce it that way.
I always pronounce the H in Meghan and the TH in Thailand in my head.
Thighland is a very different place in my head.
Probably closer to Brazil
Herb.
Phone.
Come at me Pronouncation nerds.
Erb (with a long e)
While we are at it, the. The t doesn't sound like a t. The h doesn't sound like an h. The e doesn't sound like an e.
None of the letters sound like how they should when looked at individually. I propose we change this. From now on, each letter gets pronounced as itself in the word the.
We used to have a letter for 'th' (thorn (Þ, þ)), but it was replaced by 'th'. There are people trying to bring back, but I wonder if they just like typing þorn (thorn)
Huh. I actually didn't know that. Learned something new today.
Teehee 🤭
You're wife material for Ron DeSantis.
*They put sall-mon in the fish tacos, Hank. ¡SALL-MON!
I can't believe this is already here. That's what I was gonna post!
salman rushdie
lol yes! Someone who has actually watched Frisky Dingo!
As someone who regularly mispronounces this as rhyming with almonds I feel a little attacked
I also say the following wrong: Ikea, Nutella, idea. Somehow my bilingual brain just gives up.
At the same time, it's not pronounced as "samon"
It's either "saemon" or "semen" lol
Is English fucked? Yes, yes, absolutely yes.
Um, Google search for: salmon definition gave the following result for pronunciation: /ˈsamən/ And the voice sounds like "samon".
Let me give it a try "flip flop plop plop". Still working on my salmonese.
Yes! Pronounce your letters, don't be weird! (I know this is not about this, but I'll probably never be able to tell this to any anglophone.)
How should I say should? How should I talk talk? Should I talk to the Colonel about putting the scissors in the drawer?
Like shoulder.
Maybe English needs an accent mark for silence, like the Turkish ğ
"Talk" like in "calc" but the first letter is a "t". "Should" as in "shoulder", just without the "er". And so on...
Image Transcription: Twitter Post
Jake Vig, @Jake_Vig
I Like Going To Walmart For Fun
You might as well go ahead and pronounce the "L" in "salmon." Nothing matters anymore.
I'm confused on where the walmart line is coming from, am I missing something?
Just spit balling, but maybe the program that does the transcription doesn't just use the image, but instead scans the image, finds the Twitter account shown, and checks the tweet text in the image against the matching actual tweet.
And since it's accessing the actual tweet, maybe that Walmart text is like a profile tag line or something that's attached to the user?
I... I'm not convinced it's a bot though. There are normal comments in the account history
🔫 always has been 🔫
Oh fine, let's just start pronouncing "recognize" as though there were actually a "G" in it then!! I mean where does the madness stop!!
Or the t in exactly.
Actually that sort of annoys me...
Exackly! I reconize your problem. Now I'm off to go buy some jewluhry.
I always have. How else is it pronounced? "Reckonize?"
In America a lot of people say "reckonize." In fact, I never hear it pronounced as if there is an actual "g" in the word anymore. I think they're just imitating habits of others but I hope they know that, there really is a "g" in the word (if it comes to having to spell it).
Do they also say "reckonition?"
Yeah I've heard it said that way. And it's very "fustrating." (another word that is mispronounced by leaving out the first "r" in frustrating). My big hang up is people always mispronouncing the word "Jewelry" as "Jew-LUH-Ree." It's just the world Jewel with an "ry" on the end - how hard is that to get right!!!!
Yes, people often/usually drop the g in quick/casual speech, but most regions I have heard do pronounce it when speaking slower or more formally.
as a swede whose accent is a hodgepodge of everything between scottish to RP to some vague average of american plus of course swenglish, i have spoken into the void and it spake back.
aj räckågnaiz de sällmån
Thus spake Zarathrustra. (if I spelled that wrong -well, I'm an American). I'd rather not hear any voices out of the void - this whole thing makes me shiver, recalling my lifelong fear of the black void of space and the movie "2001 A Space Odyssey." (Shudders).
Idk, I say it like reckignize. Can't be bothered to open my jaw to pronounce the O. But I'm from oklahoma so it's not my fault :)
Midwestern gang out here saying the l in palm
... Are you not supposed to?
According to my English teacher who grew up in California no.
Palm is apparently not supposed to rhyme with calm
That's not really how things work. How did she think they were "supposed" to be pronounced?
Like you'd pronounce pom poms
I pronounce both without the l. It just feels so clunky to say
But pom can also rhyme with palm. Same female vowel. 😂🙃
In my accent they're similar but not the same.
This was mega confusing at first bc I just realized I do not pronounce the L in palm or calm. So they do rhyme.. but it's like pom/com
Seeing what people with different accents think rhymes is wild. Calm, farm and palm all rhyme but sound nothing like com or pom!
It is, but not the way you think - you* don't pronounce the L in either. Calm, palm, balm, farm, harm all rhyme.
*obviously you do, I speak nothing but the Queen's!
Now that is a Rubicon that I crossed ages ago.
I should have been saying it like that all along, but, you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda!
Or the "T" in "often!"
Oh, wait, lots of people do that already.
Which totally ruins the joke in The Pirates of Penzance.
aluminum? It's spelled straightforward phonetically. How could anybody botch that?
British pronounce it, "Alum-inium." With an extra I in it. I think because it cheeses off the rest of us.
Ask the Brits
Well have you ever thought of maybe, just maybe, it's spelled as Aluminium
Both say it how it's spelt, it's just spelt differently in British and American English.
they're different dialects, they're both correct