Microsoft may replace the Start button with the Copilot AI in Windows 12
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-may-replace-the-Start-button-with-the-Copilot-AI-in-Windows-12.762176.0.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world487
Comments360https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-may-replace-the-Start-button-with-the-Copilot-AI-in-Windows-12.762176.0.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
I’ve often wondered what new and innovative ways Microsoft could find to make my computer even less likely to do what I want.
But AI, bro
Bro, remember when VR was all the rage? EVERYTHING was pushing VR, so much so
FacebookMeta went all in on it.Now it's a fucking novelty at best.
I think VR and all these AI assistants are similarly in that they’re in their infancy stages and there’s gonna be a ton of growing pains before they’re useful enough to be common, but someday they will have their place
That’s my thoughts on the matter at least
VR has been explored though, from Google Cardboard to the PSV2 to animating/painting... All of them failing to gain traction or be widely adopted.
It either needs to jump through a lot more hurdles to be more accessible and useful, or it's just gonna be another cool experiment in time like Etch-A-Sketch
That's only because the cost for a good experience is still out of the realm for most people to justify to even try. Until we are looking at $150 or so for a good experience that doesn't give people headaches or motion sickness issues it will never take off.
The cheap VR systems still give plenty of people issues, and the expensive ones are out of the reach of a normal person living their life day to day.
And for businesses, VR simply has not proven to have a cost benefit worth even the initial capital investment, without even taking into account ongoing IT costs due to damaged equipment.
I'm one of the people who gets nauseated from 3D goggles. I've got a friend who got all the latest stuff, had sensors on the wall, all that and within a minute or so I wanted to puke.
I'm never going to use a vr headset. Not sure what percentage of people are in my boat, but I think that's a pretty significant barrier to adoption
I wouldn’t say never.
The current headsets can make you sick in a variety of ways but since the start of VR, the sick factor has been reduced by roughly half every 5 years or every generation I’ve tried it.
It’s through a combination of higher refresh rates, better tracking, sickness reducers such as limited FOV when moving, or various locomotion techniques for the player.
The largest nausea inducer is giving people a joystick for moving around. But otherwise a 90+hz refresh rate and large FOV solve most issues.
Also, frankly, it takes some getting used to. But once your brain knows what to expect, the sickness goes away pretty quick.
Also I don’t necessarily expect entertainment or games to be the big thing. Many businesses use it for short periods to showcase designs. And VR is walking right now while AR is running.
That's just not true. Companies of all sizes are using VR for onboarding and training with much success and a huge return on investment. There are also a lot of location-based and VR arcades making a nice profit.
VR may never go mainstream, but for businesses there are a lot of use cases for which it is valuable.
What are some companies/industries using it for onboarding/training and how are they applying it? Haven't heard about this.
Maybe if you're in the military or space industry, otherwise I can't see any practical use in commercial business.
No one wanted to wear them even for meetings while they were isolated, and that requires the bare minimum of effort
That's certainly a factor, but I think it has far more to do with availability of content.
I can afford to buy a proper VR setup but I do not see it as a worthwhile investment because practically none of the content available is of interest to me.
It's the equivalent of dropping 2K+ to play mobile games.
Until AAA studios are actively developing for this hardware, I'm not interested...but they won't because barely anyone has the hardware. It's a real chicken and egg scenario.
It's still to expensive and cumbersome for most people I think. That's certainly my perception.
And all the "entry level" headsets really lack the hardware to make it an actual viable VR experience.
You're essentially just moving around a camera with a gyroscope in it, unable to interact with anything.
Remember paint 3d?
VR is great, just unfortunate still lacking software. Half Life Alyx and GT7 are amazing experiences unlike anything without VR. Meta’s shit I haven’t tried but on more powerful, Facebook free platforms there’s a lot of great stuff.
He wasn’t talking about games.
Glad you enjoy playing with your toy though, thanks for the review.
Remeber when 3D was all the rage? 3D monitors 3D tvs, every fucking movie was in 3D. And....now it's a novelty at best.
I would pay more at a theatre to not watch it in 3D
Right? I mean... movies are too expensive to see in theaters now... but I would too if I had the money.
It's very obvious that they rushed Copilot. What should have been an assistant like Jarvis in Iron Man, has literally no purpose and can't do anything useful.
We should bring back Clippy! –Microsoft exec
If a new Clippy worked like Jarvis, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
well you hit the nail on the head
It's MS, that's why it was rushed. Features make boss happy, bugfixes make boss angy (he has more work). No wonder that huge features get capped at 50% in such a culture.
Yep, the reason Macs are more usable is not that they are usable in general, it's that they can't keep the pace with Windows.
This might just be the push I need to switch to Linux desktop.
Do it. With proton the last argument for me to use windows is gone (gaming).
Well, it's not GONE. There are still plenty of games that won't run well on Linux, or they won't allow online multiplayer because their anti-cheat software is restricted to Windows. But that number is getting smaller every day.
But there are so very many games that do work. That those that do not, i can easily ignore.
Thats why I specified that, for me, that was enough to switch. I agree that proton isnt there yet and 100% compatibility, and we will probably never get to that. But there are enough games on the market for me to do 90% of my gaming on Linux these days.
Yeah and it's getting closer all the time. I don't think we're that far from a "tipping point" where Windows gets so shitty, and simultaneously Linux gets so good (for gaming specifically) that it would be silly not to switch.
Any day now....
I'm really not convinced that even if linux, at some point, does become a better platform for gaming than windows, that windows users will swap over. Mainstream gamers probably have never installed an OS before, it's intimidating for people.
Ubuntu 23.10 is the first mainstream Linux desktop distro that I think could be good enough for many windows users. Windows really needs to fumble for this to happen though.
In its current state I would stick with Windows. But if they make it shittier and shittier.... theoretically there is a point where gamers would start switching en masse. Whether or not it will get that bad is debatable.
INCOMING (artillery barrage with different distros). Unfortunately I have a bad feeling that chrome OS will win the Linux wars
Meh. I don't play multiplayer games at all other than FFXIV and that I haven't played in over a year. The only thing that would deter me is some visual novels I play are windows only but I could probably just run them in a virtual machine as they're not demanding.
Games like that just reinforce that a large segment of the gaming population will prioritize Windows, and developers go where the players are. I used to dual boot windows but now run windows as a VM with a VFIO gpu. Works great but it’s annoying to need that for just a few applications.
I doubt VNs have anti-cheat, so you can just run them in Proton or WINE.
I'm still on windows because I multibox my main game and the tools to do it don't work, alt tab is a goddamn mess, minimize window on focus loss is a fucking nightmare, and multiple instances of proton just chew up system resources until the game starts lagging so hard I need to quit every client and try again.
it's an edge case but that's quite a lot to deal with when windows just works.
Can you run Adobe software via proton? As soon as that works I'll be on Linux.
Look at your usecase, if it really requires adobe suite, you are out of luck i'm afraid. Perhaps you could research running a VM or wine, but I havent tried any of that myself.
If you conclude that you dont need features exclusive to adobe you might be able to find a foss alternative.
I need Lightroom and I've tried Darktable but it just doesn't cut it.
No, but there are better alternatives to adobe that don’t hog your ram harder then triple a games
Depends one what you need to do, there are some areas in which adobe still has a monopoly
I’m just waiting for full real parity (HDR, and some RT stuff), and I’m gone.
roblox:
?
[5 years later]
"it wasn't"
Do it.
Dooooooittttttt!
I spent the last ~10 days "playing" with many distros, including testing some current games, and I am literally right now backing up my files and about to reformat my main PC to linux (full drive, no dual). This is after only having experience with copy-paste Raspberry PI guides for my pi-hole.
Don't totally believe "oh it's so easy, nothing to configure" - those people are lying, especially if you've not used Linux before. But several flavors of Ubuntu are quite pleasant, and I appear to have found a home with PopOS. I can't find anything that "doesn't work", and the worst fixes were just quick searches for help. PopOS won due to nvidia compatibility and a nice, snappy desktop. It also was the fastest in overall reformat cycle time. My wife's computer is still Windows, if I do have any microsoft emergencies.
There are some games that just will not work even under proton, or that have functional restrictions. It's way fewer games than it used to be, but it's still not an absolutely perfect solution. I would love to make Linux my gaming OS instead of my "getting shit done" OS like it currently is, I've been advocating for it for a few decades at this point and it's almost there, but it's not to a point yet where I can unreservedly recommend it to gamers. If you aren't a gamer I'd say it's already good enough for anything you need.
How easy was setting up the pi-hole?
It's stupid easy. Flash DietPi to the SD card, select pi hole from the package list, then point your router to the IP for DNS.
Of course, it should be plugged directly into your router, so a zero won't work without an ethernet hat.
This is where I’d say to visit /r/PiHole but it doesn’t work that way over here and I’ve no idea how to link to a sub yet soo….
Checkout it the PiHole website.
https://docs.pi-hole.net/
It's "easy" - but that is very subjective, depending on how much you've down outside "turning Windows on". You DO need to make sure your router allows assigning a DNS ip address. Some ISP-supplied units are rather locked down.
I recommend a "kit" from somewhere like CanaKit (amazon has them), to make sure you get the parts you need. It can run on smaller/cheaper kits, but I say get a Pi3 or 4 variant.
Then following the link above, there is great documentation on install. Install "Putty" on windows, which will log into your Pi and allow remote command line, and then the entire process is copy-paste from guides.
After you finish, you may feel "oh that was easy!" - but there's still some stuff to learn and get used to along the way.
Congrats on picking an awesome distro! :) Pop is really nice, and I’m really excited to see what they do with their desktop environment. I feel like we’re spoiled for choice right now on Linux.
There are always things to configure, just like on Windows. I think some people kind of forget that they had to learn to configure things on Windows at one point. xD
Ok wow.. did I jinx myself with this post. Immediately after posting here, I began the install/config phase of a fresh reformat. Encountered a weirdness that the system couldn't sleep/suspend - immediately woke up. 8 hours later... After installing 5 different distros to confirm it was ALL linux versions (even debian)...
I spent the entire day, 8 hours, searching and referencing and troubleshooting. FINALLY one very random corner of the internet, on an ARCH-LINUX forum, a small comment mentioned that my Gigabyte B550 "had a problem" with sleep. SO THEN I had to start cross-referencing those words (couldn't "use" the Arch guide, since I was on Pop), and my dude/dudette... I was up to 1am.
Ultimately, I had to COMBINE the "solutions" of FOUR different results, across 2017-2020 (none actually on Ubuntu 22.04) to get the fix to work. Like one taught me the script, but the locations were wrong, one taught me the service I needed, but it was outdated, and then another taught how to fix a service, etc etc, cascading solutions.
SO at close to 2AM - after documenting my own guide, another raw metal install of PopOS, wrote my script & service... and... "it just works!" (pun intended). It works. It sleeps. Have to disable the Gigabyte B550M "GPP0 and GPP8" device, which are bridges to the NVMe drives.
Funny enough though, as much as this is "yup, thats Linux!" I feel like it's not fair, and not Linux's fault. This is a random, and really unlucky, issue with my specific board. I am typing this to you, while on my new PopOS install, and sleep/suspend still works.
What a ride!
Wow. That’s unfortunate, but hey, you got it working! Congrats! :D
as I keep chatting to you on a windows thread...
remembering I started linux 9 days ago, hopefully that's the biggest adventure I go on for awhile. I wonder if there's some place I should post my story, but maybe it's too specific to be wildly helpful.
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is rather easy.
But anyway, no mainstream user-friendly Linux distribution is that hard to use if you can read and think.
So when people say that they can't manage one on their desktop - they also usually can't manage Windows on their desktop, they just think they can.
Lol, every single Microsoft article has this comment.
About a month ago Windows 11 started forcing ads for apps and services I didn't need. Immediately installed a popular Linux distribution to have some peace of mind. There's every flavor of desktop out there. I picked one for work and games (pop_os). It's out of my way most of the time and it's not trying to sell me anything. I recommend it, specially, if you're someone that doesn't fiddle with settings too much, it just work.
been working on it here. i've just moved my multi-monitor setup at the office over to debian mint, and relegated windows to a crt.
i can't go "all in", as supporting windows desktops "pays the rent", but it'll be "all but one" at home and at the office.
if you're using windows in 2023, I doubt it
I use Windows, macOS, and Linux, but all in separate ways. Haven’t used a desktop Linux in quite some time — only headless Linux servers.
Why? I switched to Linux in 2023.
Yeah, they could also replace the start button with a shit emoji. But there's no indication at all anybody wants to do any of that because they're not idiots. You only said that so people visit your shitty website. In fact, not even the quote you reference for your article suggests any plans of replacing the start button whatsoever:
Fuck clickbait headlines and fuck websites bending any and all content to the SEO voodoo.
lemmy reddit is basically a misleading clickbait megaphone
And everybody's just happy to bitch about whatever the headline suggests without ever checking if it's even true.
And everyone and their grandma is switching to Linux, this time for real
Lemmy communities need to start banning domains that post clickbait garbage like this.
Well in that case I might replace windows 12 with not using windows 12
Im 70% sure I'm replacing wins 11 with Linux already so join us
A few weeks ago when they made the search bar come back after I had told it to go away I switched to Linux. It's weird the small annoyances that add up. It's great so far. With KDE for the desktop environment, you can make it look however you want, including almost identical to any version of windows you want. It's really quite usable, and generally I'm already faster and more comfortable with it than I was with windows.
XP gang
Botnet gang :/
Yeah, don't use old versions of Windows (or any OS really). Upgrade to Win 10/11 or install Linux (or something else that's supported).
Nope
I love this idea. The reason people continue using Windows is because they're used to it. Messing with the Start button is going to piss off even the most patient users. Not to mention it'll be an absolute nightmare for any IT department. Just imagine an army of Karens calling your hotline first thing on Monday morning, yelling at you because you took away the Start button. It'll make Windows 8 look like a huge success.
They already fucked with start menu and search and it's already a problem for IT. I can't find any app I got installed unless I spell it out right, and even then it might work with just 3/8 letters in but no further.
Sometimes I just click through program files cause it's faster.
For some fucking brilliant reason, searching update shows discord, so to find updates I have to spell it wrong
Back to cluttering the desktop with shortcuts to everything it is then.
sometimes you can't find an application even when you spell it out correctly, hafta go through the apps list to find them.
I feel like things like Classic Shell (or whatever the go-to alternative is nowadays) are just going to make bank from enterprise customers suddenly wanting to make their desktops usable for the average user.
Doubtful. It's hard enough to get programs past our security team and having half malware bundled programs like this won't be an easy task.
Lol, what? There is no malware in classic shell, or start11 or explorer patcher. Wtf are you talking about?
Tell that to dumbass IT "managers" that think a process monitor is a hacking tool.
i remember some game refusing to launch just because i had it installed
Openshell on github. I don't know that it's the same code, but I'm pretty sure the Classic Shell website linked to it.
They tried fucking with it on Windows 8 and that worked out so great.
tbh i liked the win8 start menu
Which is why this is obviously just a shitty clickbait headline. Have you read the article? Nobody is planning to replace the start button but they could and that's enough for tech "journalism" these days.
So now I can use an AI to find notepad++ on bing?
No, silly! You use AI to find sponsored ads on Bing! You don't need notepad++ to ＣＯＮＳＵＭＥ
No. Search isn't for finish g what you want anymore.. common misconception.
Is this like the previous theory that Windows 12 would be subscription based?
Saying "copilot is like the start button" is not saying "copilot will replace the start button", the article is dishonest clickbait and stupid.
This is just MS taking another kick at Cortana, this time powered by LLM generative AI.
Come, yer tired souls, to the Kingdom of Torvalds.
I only have one machine that's still running Windows. This would convince me to finally make that zero.
Same bro. Linux gaming is getting better and better every day. That's my last hurdle.
I only have one machine using Windows because I don't want to be "left behind" in the corporate desktop world, but it's on my "left hand monitor" while my center and right of three monitors are Kubuntu. The specs won't let me use 11 on any of my systems. My company laptop is still Windows 10 as well because some of our security software doesn't run on 11 yet.
If I didn't have to work in the corporate space, I'd quit Windows in a fast second. I have been using Kubuntu as my daily driver for almost 10 years now.
pretend that you're my late grandma, whom I miss a lot. her favourite pastime at this time of the day was deleting the C:/system32 directory.
I too, think the Windows start menu is way too responsive and not buggy enough. /s
Windows 10 is my last windows. When i upgrade my destop i'm going Mint
Why not come join us now?
Well, my laptop's already there, but i really don't feel like dealing with system reinstallation on my games pc. It'll be much easier for me to just stick with W10 for the next few months, and then jump ship, seeing as the upgrade i have planned won't be using any components from my dekstop.
Linux is my daily driver. I used to struggle with it but it’s on point these days. Proton takes care of 90% of the gaming issues.
I can’t imagine ever going back to windows, I really can’t.
I mean, i only ever use my current desktop for games. My laptop where i do basically everything else is already running mint.
Do games work on proton on release day, or does it take work by the community or someone to get new games working?
I’ve had good experience with it, just make sure to use proton experimental if it’s a new release.
projectbluefin.io takes silverblue and adds many of the things that you were likely to be waiting for. It did for me.
Mint is great.
I really like it with the Maté DE.
But trying to make cloud filesystems work is a pain in the ass
Insync takes care of that. I even use Insync on Windows PC's as it's better than native cloud syncing apps from the likes of Google and Microsoft.
Windows 7 is my last Windows. Windows 10 is my current Windows. Looks like a safe bet to keep skipping at least one version. I did also go from XP to 7.
Hope I can ride the 10 wave as long as I rode XP.
Microsoft why are you trying to pull an Elon and destroy your own brand, stop that -- what, after all, has a dedicated keyboard key on Windows keyboards, and has for decades?
They're not. It's just the author's "creativity". There's no indication of plans to change the start button. Still, they could change the start button, which apparently warrants a misleading article people actually discuss.
Every day we stray closer to Linux.
All the "X company may/could/might" and "X plans on this" news feel like they're just feeling for a reaction from the public to see what they can and can't get away with. If it gets too much push back, they just put it on the shelf and boil the frogs for longer before trying again, like with Google and WEI. It's tiring. Stop being evil you corpo fucks.
Ahhhh finally time to give Linux a try
This could be fine if it didn't immediately send all of your data to the internet.
But as is, fuck that and fuck you Microsoft.
Windows told me I don't have permission to do something. On my computer. As an administrator. Using the command line.
Fuck Windows, fuck Microsoft and their controlling asses, and fuck co-pilot and Open AI for contributing to artificial intelligence not only being closed source and proprietary, but encouraging the United States government to make it literally illegal to do it on the open source field as well.
Probably the fact that, even if you define the account as Admin in windows, you still need to select "Windows sudo" (run as Administrator) before it actually elevates privilege.
That's just a "hey dumbass, did you try to run command prompt or was it ThreeTittyBabes.jpg.exe?" check. The admin users just don't need to enter an admin password to proceed.
No, it's not.
What you're talking about is UAC flipping out because you double clicked on something and it want's admin privilege (the GUI equivalent of what bioemerl talked about).
I'm talking about exactly what bioemerl was: You open cmd window, try to run a command and it bitches that you need admin rights, as an admin. So, you have to go back, search for cmd, then select the option: Run as administrator.
Can't you check the "run as administrator" box in the properties? Then it runs as admin every time.
If you remember to do it after getting pissed off enough at it, sure 😀
That's because too many virus infections have started with admins launching things as admin by default
Use one of the elevate as admin scripts
“….So for example, I just go there and express my intent and it either navigates me to an application or it brings the application to the Copilot”
What does that mean to me, if I just want to open notepad? How to I express my intent, exactly? Through interpretive dance?
Hello, I would like to use notepad.
Ok, I can open notepad. But have you considered notepad enhanced with AI? It predicts what you want to type for $49.99 a year!
"i would like to write a quick letter in wordpad."
sorry. that application is not available. launching word instead and starting a subscription to microsoft 365.
locating credit card information...
found. you will be charged $99.99 per year.
** Goes to uninstall the application **
Hello, it looks like you're trying to uninstall Microsoft 365. Your plan has been updated. To keep Microsoft 365 uninstalled you will be charged $149.99 per year, plus a $74.99 uninstallation fee.
Thank you for signing up for Uninstaller 365. Your monthly fee will be $49.99. To cancel write 16 pages of klingon opera and send it to the following address exactly 100 days 16 hours before your requested cancellation minute.
I'm guessing speaking or typing: "note" "pad" "notepad" "how do I write a note?" "Write something down" would all work.
To be fair this would probably be the same speed as me hitting windows key + R and typing "notepad".
And I've been slowly replacing windows with Linux since the arrival of Windows 10.
This type of information, encourages me to move quickly to a linux distro of choice.
"It seems you wanted to start an application, let me guess which one you want instead of just letting you proceed with that"
How many times has Windows tried to kill off the start menu!? I can think of at least three:
Windows 10 didn't have live tiles, that was 8.
Windows 12 is not a product that exists and there are no plans to replace the start button.
You can think of one.
Windows 10 did have tiles at first, but they were corralled into the top of the start menu iirc. And.... Did you not read the article?
Sounds like they didn't try to "kill of the start menu", then.
I... Did read the article which is why I know it's just got a clickbait headline and there are no plans to replace the start button. Did... you not read the article?
Only thing I use Start button for is to turn off the PC. The search is unusable and all shortcuts are in my task bar anyways.
“Replace the start button”
Meanwhile in the category of "useless bullshit nobody asked for" we have Microsoft. Again.
This is FUD. AI integration is a given, but I doubt they would outright axe the start button unless they plan to fundamentally change the Windows UX design language.
If they do, expect it to go the way of Windows 8.0 real fast.
You mean notebook.net isn’t a legitimate news site?!
If they do I'll finally switch to Linux. I tried once and Windows 11 was just simpler, but if they pulled this I'd have no choice.
So Linux is just the kernel. You still have to choose a distro and a Desktop Environment (aka DE) with an included Window Manager (aka WM) or a pure WM (like i3, awesome, QTile etc.) if you dare.
KDE is the DE you want that does all that Windows can do and much much more.
You can layout everything how you want it. Beautiful Widgets (e.g. for monitoring hardware, RSS, network activity) are built-in. You can put them on the desktop or into tray-bars (aka panels). You can have multiple panels, order them on any monitor edge you want or have them floating and show only when mouse-hovered. Multiple virtual desktops is a given since ages in most DEs (e.g. Mate, Gnome, Cinnamon).
It has a built-in facility to download new themes, widgets and scripts for kwin (KDEs WM). A lot of themes are gorgeous. Most of the scripts, themes and widgets are user-contributed.
If you own an android device, you're in for a treat as KDE comes with KDE-Connect. Best thing since sliced bread. Your phone will become part of KDE. Send files from the file-manager (Dolphin) and from the phone. Enter text on your phone from the PC-keyboard. Send the clipboard content. Use your phone as a remote via the acceleration and gyro-sensors. Show notifications from your phone within the desktop tray. Control music and video players on the desktop from your phone and vice-versa.
The file-manager (Dolphin) has Tabs and split panels to show two file-trees at the same time to easily copy files. It can easily integrate things like nextcloud or other remote filesystems like SFTP.
It's got KRunner which is a unified application-starter, calculator, search engine for your documents or the web and to quickly switch between open apps. It's a small textbox that shows up if you press alt-F2. It's fast and you can configure en detail what searches it should do (e.g. only your installed apps). If you dare you can remove all panels and the start menu from KDE via a few clicks and only use KRunner.
It's got a new built-in tiling manager (Bismuth is cool too) and much more.
So you need to decide which Linux Distribution (distro) you want. You mostly get them by downloading single-file iso's. Put those (even multiple) on a USB-Stick prepared with Ventoy. Start from the stick. Choose one distro from the start menu and boot into the live-system (which won't touch your hard-drives). You can start the installation on your hard-drive from a prominently placed button in the live-distro which usually starts Calamares (an easy as pie graphical installer). I can't stress enough what a good idea it is to buy a second SSD just for your linux system. Don't do win/linux dual-boot from one disk. Then within Calamares make sure you choose the correct SSD. Use systemd-boot instead of grub if there is an option. Choose not to many DEs while installing. Preferably only one. Applications are often programmed on specific DE-libraries (like gtk for gnome or Qt for KDE) but you don't need to install the full DE to use applications from another DE you haven't installed. The package-manager (you'll love it) takes care to install a small subset of those libraries automatically if you want to use an app from another DE.
The distro basically is an opiniated selection of packages, DEs/WMs and default settings for your desktop. Also they're mostly based on different base distros. Mint, MX, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Pop! OS are based on Debian. Manjaro, Endeavour, Steam OS are based on Arch. Then there are base distros that don't seem to have spawned a lot derivatives like Fedora and OpenSUSE (both very good).
A big distinction between Debian based and Arch-based is, that the latter is a rolling release distro. That means that all your software, the OS, the DE gets constantly updated and you're always on the latest version. That means you can get some gigs of updates daily/weekly. So better don't be on a metered connection. If you aren't then rolling is a fantastic for gaming, e.g. OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Arch or Endeavour.
With other non-rolling distros you often have to reinstall everything on a major distro-upgrade.It had the misconception that non-rolling distros like Fedora or Mint have the need to be reinstalled on major version releases. But they have facilities like Ubuntu's do-release-upgrade.Linux has another big plus: you won't have to ever surf to a website for bleeding edge software. The package-manager takes care and another big distinction of distros: from where comes the software (repositories), how was it build and how does the end-user install it. Arch based has something very special in its sleeve: The AUR (Arch User Repository) which is an addition to Arch's official repos and completely managed by users. If a package doesn't exist for Arch someone will prepare a script, that directly builds it from github (or other sources) and put that in the repos. In my 5 years on an Arch, I never had to reinstall the OS and there were a handful of times I need to download software via a browser. The other big advantage. The package-manager takes care of always keeping the apps up-to-date. You won't ever have to identify which apps need updates or where to download the installers. One click. Wait 1-5 mins. You're whole system is updated. No need to restart.
If you go with arch (on which the Steam-Decks OS is based), choose EndeavourOS. If you don't know something look into the Arch-Wiki which is often praised to be one of the best documentations out there. OpenSUSE has very big repos too and comes from a german Enterprise but they're very Open-Source, it doesn't cost a dime and is heavily praised in the community.
It all sounds very complicated and overwhelming. But it actually isn't. Buy SSD, USB-Stick, download OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, EndeavourOS and maybe Fedora or Mint. Boot. Install. Your Windows is recognized by the installer and will show up together with Linux in a boot menu upon restart.
This is my current KDE desktop:
https://imgur.com/a/AfnY7xn
I might replace Microsoft with Linux in Windows 12
I like to put down M$ when I can, but I don't think replacing the start button is the exact plan here. I think he's just using it as a comparison.
I like how the copilot button will allow Microsoft to run what it thinks you want to run.
That would be anticompetitive, but Microsoft learned from the last time. (And what it learned was "nothing's going to happen to you so carry on")
This isn't going to work whatsoever with people who don't know how to express what they want to do.
Tons of people have just been taught a fixed workflow involving a sequence of buttons with known labels and icons and locations. Lots of people already can't find programs in the start menu even if they know the name (because they don't know how search works and often even will think it's not the same program / will think it won't have the same data because the icon was found in a different place).
How are they suddenly going to talk to an AI about things that the AI don't even have information about? The AI won't know all the nicknames people have, it won't knew how people describe the icons, can't handle all misspellings (they don't even understand phonetics), it won't under people's description of the UX parts, and when programs have 20x start options where people usually follow a guide to pick the right one then the AI won't be able to reliably recognize which one the user intends to open.
Every single company would literally need a team of AI training experts and capture EVERYTHING the employees does with the computers and says about them for a few months to capture all the context it needs.
I am this close to go all linux, Microsoft. don't tempt me. only thing that make use windows is gaming and that too is slipping away because of steam
They won't. They do however want to stay relevant and will float things like this just to create talk about Microsoft and Windows.
You know what's really interesting to talk about? How fast it was for me to setup Chimeraos on a PC with an Intel GPU and hook it up to my tv and Xbox wireless controller USB dongle.... First boot and I login to Steam and BAM! Grab that controller. Time for couch gaming
Windows is nowhere near that good or easy as a game station for coach gaming.
Well fuck that
Time to experiment with Linux again. Still haven't settled on a distro that I liked 100%.
Microsoft may replace windows 11 with Linux in my computer
Luckily steam deck has been teaching me how to utilise Linux. Then due to streaming garbage I've started using jellyfin and have ordered a micro PC to host it, which will have Linux installed for additional practice. My windows days are numbered.
I put linux on my collage laptop Made a school work shit sometimes But overall I've enjoyed it But it uses hybrid graphics and I haven't figured out how to play slime rancher on it yet
If it’s got a nvidia graphics card you could use prime-run
Way to increase usage of Linux, good job Microsoft
Breaking news: I'ma replace windows with any version of Linux in 12 months
Switched to Manjaro almost a year ago. No regrets and absolutely 0 desire to come back. After a week in Linux, you just know Windows is trash.
X. Why not now?
Building this into the OS is clearly unnecessary, there's obviously another motive here...sweet user behavior data?
UI/UX job replacement. And to get you used to using it so they can charge you for using it later.
They don't need AI to do that.
Remember that businesses are made of people, not clairvoyant cunning machines of profit.
Last year, NFTs were the thing that was going to change everything, and everyone wanted to find ways to bake them into their thing, whatever it was. Fast forward a year and we hear about weird failures, abandoned plans and a slight chatter about the very small handful of uses where the idea makes sense.
Right now, chat and generative AI is the thing.
Project managers at companies were told to find ways to fit the thing into profitable places, and a quick way to do that is to stick into into any place with a textbox and user interaction.
Next year, we're going to see 95% of those ideas disappear, and the remaining will either be where it makes sense, or where the project manager is particularly good at their job.
Yep, we can have AI steal your data and save money by using your hardware to process it for us.
I'm here for it as a snobby Linux user. Let's see how much the average windows user is willing to let their experience be degraded before they finally tap out and try an operating system that isn't pure trash
I don't want to go back to Windows 8. Those were... dark times...
No thank you. Startallisback to the rescue. Ghost spectre to remove whatever bullshit they put in this time.
I'm not against progress, I just prefer my computer to leave the thinking to me.
Or at least leave the thinking on the client side.
classic shell ui also
"All the apps that revert things to the way I'm used to to the rescue! I'm not against change, believe me!"
I have embraced all the good parts of Windows 11. I will continue to cut out the telemetry and other creepy elements like the cancer that it is.
I believe you. StartAllBack which only makes UI changes and nothing else may not have been the best example, though.
Idc, I'm on Linux now. I'd rather buy a Mac than install Windows again at this point (if I ever need to use software that's Windows/Mac only)
Asahi is also what I've been looking at for a while and it seem very promising
It's gotten a lot better over the past few years.
Oh so much better. I've relegated Windows only programs to a virtual machine. I haven't touched it in a long time but it's there just in case.
Can someone just start making community updates for windows 7 and we can just use that when Unix is not a viable option
Microsoft will come to your house and break your knee caps if someone did that haha
LOL
Windows 12 is already a failure and it hasn't even been formally announced yet. Congrats Microsoft! You've successfully failed for the second time in a row to deliver a windows version that most users actually like even to the slightest bit.
I guess the actual YOTLD will finally arrive after 20 years.
Everyday I'm happier and happier I have migrated away from Windows.
Oh boy. That thing is the steering wheel of the Windows system.
I mean... Yea. Yea it is. They want to:
They're not even being subtle about it:
Yup on 4. Mess at all with the hostfile and Windows Defende won't stop harassing you about a threat. User autonomy is a threat to Windows.
That's exactly why they want control of it
My work have only just caught up to windows 10.
Assuming they know nothing of EOL or CVE. They better hurry then, only a year or so until 10 security patches go up the wall.
Unless I'm much mistaken, Windows 10 EOL isn't until 2025, so two years left to run.
Oct 2025. Yeh that's not long in business.
Depends on the business really. For my last employer (~19,000 deployed PCs, lots of fussy mission critical legacy applications), 2 years would be cutting it extremely fine. For my current employer (~30 employees, nothing more complicated than standard office applications in use), you could do the upgrade in a week.
I imagine my current employer won't be worrying about upgrading before 2025.
They have shown us a new VM system, which has windows 11 clients soni assume its in the works but rhe windows 10 rollout to 6000 employees was a nightmare.
That's what they are doing. The article is just generating controversy to get clicks.
They tried with Cortana next to the start button. I don’t think anybody ever used it.
That would be because Cortana was hot garbage at doing anything and was significantly slower than just typing my query by hand.
If they built an assistant that was worth half a fuck maybe we might have used it now and then. I'm not very confident that Copilot is that. But it's going to be more useful than Cortana was almost no matter what they do with it.
The biggest pain point of windows 8 (on release) was the missing start button, why would they think a bingilator would work instead?
Don't worry I am sure they will fix all this madness for Windows 9.
Okay. If 12 is coming out why would anyone go with 11?
Why not just make 10 louder?
This is the worst timeline.
I may replace Windows as my daily driver with Linux.
I did. The first couple months were... An experience. But after getting used to all the different ways things work (many of which are, honestly, way better), it's quite, quite nice.
Some of my hardware even works better: the drawing tablet's drivers don't crash and the audio latency is much less!
Similar experience here. The first month was rough as I got everything installed and configured. But it's been pretty solid in the 4 months since then. I am glad I switched.
Curious what application you're using with that drawing app. My Huion wasn't great last time I gave Linux a shot on as my daily driver.
I switched around 2 years ago after using different distros on and off for a few years on an old laptop, and I've never been happier with my computing experience.
One thing I will say is you will have to find replacements for some of your favourite applications, but I've found that pretty much every alternative has been better. And if you need suggestions just ask the community or you can DM me.
Also just pick Mint or if you really have to Ubuntu(though I would definitely pick mint) as a first distro as that will give you the best out of the box experience and a beginner friendly community( unlike Arch's which I daily drive).
Then switch if you want a different distro( and I would suggest trying it out in a VM), just don't get a distro hopping addiction😆.
I already have a Raspberry Pi and a Linux VM for development reasons, but I also need Windows for that very same reason. Sometimes Windows APIs are much better than what we have on Linux (ALSA is a janky and laggy mess), and some dev tools are nicer there too (at least with VSCode, one can have some GUI for gdb).
You're 27 years late, according to my watch.
Only if they promise to remove the most pointless keyboard button in the world as well.
Define "may"? This is like writing, car manufacturers may replace tires with triangles.
Lmfao! They think I'm going to buy another windows OS?
if you buy a new non-mac laptop you probably will, whether you want to or not
I recently ordered one from Lenovo and you could select no os for -100 Euro.
Like why would I pay them 100 for a windows plus extra bloat, when I can get a windows for like 30 from somewhere else.
But also imma try a Linux
Don't use fake keys, they can stop working, use windows activator on GitHub. Basically it make windows think you upgraded from windows 7
How do you get a windows key for 30 euros?
Ebay.
that's the only major manufacturer I've heard of that has ever tried to do this
I think you could get some dells with Linux, but the price didn't go down
Nope
I still remeber installing a third-party start menu on Windows 8 because fuck the Metro.
Stardock? I've been installing stardock on every windows computer since xp, I'm on Linux now, but if I ever end up back on windows, it will be back.
I started on Win8 and have never stopped. Currently using Startallback on windows 11 for my wife. It works so much better.
All I care about with the start button is the search function. If this didn't fuck with that, sure.
I see lots of love for Linux in the comments which is awesome, but is there anyone considering making a hackintosh out of their machine? Is that a good route to go these days?
Up next, windows 13 is cloud-based only, thus requiring constant internet connection
I don't think this will happen. What they want is for PCs to be like phones, a closed system where you are pretty much locked into installing anything you want on your PC(and thus anything you buy as well) from their exclusive app store. The cloud thing just extra expense for no real benefit to them. However if there's an opportunity to push one drive you can be sure they will. And MS has been trying to move in this direction since windows 8.
The "cloud thing" ensures that every person using the system is a subscription-paying customer. You don't see the benefit in that?
Whoops. The Navy just went Linux.
Let's be real, the Navy continued to stick with Windows XP...
So it’s like search on iOS. Not always what I want but if it makes windows search useful then maybe it won’t be so bad.
Seriously, I almost never navigate the menu anymore. I hit the windows key on my keyboard and start type the app name, or setting I want to change, then hit enter when the autocomplete is right. Gmail came along with labels replacing folders, then iTunes and iPhoto organizing your media by its metadata. I would hate going back to having to organize folders and menus again.
yeah they didn't say they were removing the start menu, they just said the new feature will be as central to the user experience. and predictably every reply is "lol STUPID MICRO$HIT"
people really want something to be mad about
W8 vibes.
Just nope!
Gross
Kill it with fire!
I just want my operating system:
To have a logical settings layout, perform well, be stable
Be fully and easily compatible with most mainstream programs and games without having to screw around too much.
Give me back windows 7, add dx12 support, update the back end with any kernel and scheduler updates, call it windows gamer edition. Then fuck off out of my life Microsoft.
Nobody wants to “use an operating system” we want to run programs and do it efficiently, i feel the vast majority of changes Microsoft has made since windows 7 ended has been to the detriment of that.
I can only hope that now with Vulcan becoming more popular and the rise of steam os on the steam deck that we will start to see native Linux aaa games being a thing.
Seems like there's a need for someone to create tools that strip the latest windows release down to a minimal install, convert all of the smart features back into db menus, standardize the locations of options, and give you opt-in features instead of opt-out.
Wow. I was just taking a break from an ethics assignment whether Copilot is ethical to use while developing code, and then I see this post.
I believe Copilot is mostly ethical to use in development, as a tool. This is just Microsoft trying to force Copilot into a place where it wasn't meant to be and will lead to so much wasted electricity.
It's like taking the MVP in Baseball and forcing him to play Tennis and expecting good results against Tennis pros. Stop shoehorning good AI tools into the wrong places that are better equipped using different tools.
And what if I don't agree to their privacy policy? Are they really handing over that crucial part of windows to 3rd parties if we don't want our habits tracked?
It's impossible to use windows without giving up basically all data privacy already. Microsoft's position for at least the last ten years has basically been 'give up all your digital privacy to us or find another OS.'
And so we did. Linux users unite
So glad I'm using Linux for my gaming needs.
Edit: typed the below is a response to someone else's comment, but I thought it would also be good for me to say in here, to elaborate on my initial comment.
--
Fedora/KDE, Steam, Bottles.
Fedora for the quality support and stability of your Linux distro, Steam for, well, Steam, and Bottles for non-Steam games, that still lets you launch those games from inside Steam.
SkyNet OS v1.2
Install Linux, get rid of microshit crap
is this an out of season April fools joke?
Microsoft: Not enough people are using our snazzy AI we spent a lot of time and money developing. Whatever should we do?
Also Microsoft: Force the users to use it!
Good luck, because last time they tried to replace the Start menu with a new UI went so well..
You sound so much like me with the, "again."
I think the second time is the charm with jumping to Linux.
I think something to remember is that a lot of people forget is that you can run an unsupported version of windows as long as the devs of your required software support it.
And sure there is the whole security scare, but I'd say while there are risks, as a Linux user you know a lot more about avoiding dodgy links and whatnot then most people so you're at a much lower risk.
So if you run a VM and use something like atlasOS to get a nicer windows 10 experience you can use that for years to come.
Just curious - what stuff?
Dual boot for just that thing?
Good riddance, Windows.
Yikes!!
What's next, Android like Launcher? And screw you for trying to open loose files! >! /s !<
The more of a PITA windows is, the more willing I, and everyone, will be to deal with Linux. Lol.
The more people that use Linux, the better it will get! It's win win!
I hadn't thought about it that way. Thank you!
I think there's a very real part of that which is because Microsoft charges for people to get certifications and how to handle their operating system. If it was documented really well and easy to work with at a low level, then they wouldn't be able to sell any of their training would they?
This is how I feel about every single vendor that I work with. Specifically designed to be obtuse and difficult to understand so that after sales services must be purchased in order for the product to be usable.
They've never had any respect for their users intelligence. Microsoft and Adobe both. They are absolutely convinced people are too stupid to figure things out without multiple popup boxes that require confirmation to close. They will build windows with the stupidest human being alive in mind and drive away users that don't have the patience to be talked down to every moment.
Rip windows, another victim of AI
When I have to use windows, I mostly use an application called to open Apps. So I really don't miss the start button much.
And with that, I'm out
This whole "the customers want what we tell them to" attitude has really taken off, hasn't it?
this is why im not going past windows 11
BSD is the way
I find freebsd worked really well for me and it was a really easy transition from Linux. I still did most things GUI as I am still relearning command line (my preferred method). I got everything to function out of the box on a laptop that had a free/libre bios (libreboot). I don't game on it, I use it primarily for emails, documents, browsing, etc. I was tired of distro hopping and decided to try something completely new.
Edit: NetBSD can pretty much run on anything. Openbsd is a very secure system.
I ran qmail and other services on FreeBSD back in 2001. It's very solid and battle hardened, but it doesn't have the widespread support that Ubuntu/Fedora have, although as a pure basic server it doesn't seem to matter that much with the ports system.
I ran it on a Lenovo x200 with libreboot and had no issues, mind you this was only a couple years ago I made the switch. Before that the laptop had debian on it.
Couldn't you trivially differentiate local files from a query like if you type f..i..r it's probably firefox if you type something that isn't a recent document name or the name of an app its a query?
DEATH TO ABOMINABLE INTELLIGENCE!
Ahh yes the beginning to Window's end.
Sure I'll try it. If it improves my workflows I'll use it
I mean... fuck that noise.
But also? That is actually a really good idea. The start menu was always fundamentally flawed and it took the bullshit that was windows 7 (?) to make me realize that. Clicking and navigating through nested menus and trying to guess whether a piece of software was listed by company, the app name, or something else was always a mess. Which is why
winkey"dawn of war" was the optimal solution.And as third party app stores (e.g. Steam) may or may not even bother to make a start menu entry to begin with? Having something that can search your computer AND distinguish between "the document that lists what primes I need to farm" and "the Warframe game itself" is a really good idea.
But yeah... I do not want "AI" based shit in an OS that is known to have a crapton of telemetry that gets toggled back on every time it silently runs an update.
between pinned items in start menu and on the taskbar, putting quicklaunch back and populating it, and a few desktop shortcuts... i maybe 'search' for an application like that once a year, at most.
You mean you stick with slower mouse actions vs just fast keyboard actions?
This sounds great, I hope they do it!