China says Israel has gone too far
China’s foreign minister said Saturday that Israel has gone too far in responding to last week’s invasion by Hamas, China’s official news agency reported.
Speaking to Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan Al Saud, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Israel’s actions have extended beyond self-defense.
According to Xinhua, China has an interest in helping resolve the conflict and the underlying issues involving the Palestinian population.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/15/china-saudi-arabia-israel-palestinians-00121601Open linkView original on lemmy.world489
Comments250
He's not wrong. But it's worth remembering that when China faced a far smaller provocation from their own restive Muslims, in Xinjiang, they responded by locking up a large fraction of the population in vast reeducation camps...
Not saying that's right, but at least they didn't bomb the camps...
I think if they felt the need to they would have. China and Israel's government both place about the same value on the lives of people who get in their way, China is just a lot more self conscious about its international image.
This is a stupid take. 70 years has passed since China's last military attack on a nation. 70 years. But sure, let's ignore history and view things from our fee fees.
China may be oppressive against those in its nation. But it's proven from decades of peace to not do anything like what you are saying.
They attack sovereign waters all the time. They make threats to Taiwan nearly daily.
So who got killed?
Love it, can't find an answer so you turn to ad hominem. The last bastion of a loser.
Where in my comment did I talk about their willingness to attack other countries? I said they didn't value the lives of people who get in their way, like the pro-democracy student protesters they massacred in 1989, or the Uyghurs they've been enslaving/brutalizing/killing in concentration camps more recently.
There's no evidence of killing. The UN even visited and stated they did not believe China was engaged in mass killing. So no, nothing like what Israel is doing.
Plenty of circumstantial evidence of killing (e.g. missing people), and when there's been documented imprisonment forced labor and forced sterilizations, the fact that they don't say "... and then we kill them" in any written documents the UN can get their hands on and just rely on their guards to know what to do really doesn't matter
Both countries want to exterminate people who challenge their aims, China's just got a slightly more controlled environment to do it in
Right right, killing thousands is comparable to circumstantial evidence. Do you hear yourself?
So the sino-indian war was in 62, but they've been salami slicing in indian aksai chin the past decade, and this is acknowledged by outside observers.
China isn't just brutal to its own people.
So nothing in the past decades, like I said. This isn't even remotely comparable to what Israel is doing.
They literally said China and India have been going at it in the past decade. Which they have. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes
I wouldn't call people pushing each other a violent attack. It became bad not because they killed each other but because they were pushing each other on the top of a mountain.
Seems like youre the one led by the nose by your fee fees
So please tell me what country has China violently attacked in the last few decades to:
Just once.
Country? The example was that china also willingly abuses and kills minority groups it has power over when convenient.
Do you need to be reminded of the many different minority groups china played "israeli genocide" with? Just because palestine is technically still a government doesnt change how israel, and the rest of the planet, treat them as a functional subdivision of israel.
Get your head on straight bud
Actually, the post above mentions those people were sent to camps and not killed. In fact, there's still no evidence of any deaths, just conjecture. The UN even visited and stated that while they don't believe there is killing happening that it still constitutes as human rights violations. So no, China hasn't
Personally, I believe the UN over conspiracy theorists like yourself.
Re read the original post.
How high are you right meow?
Ah ad hominem, as expected.
You act like i have any respect for Tankies or care for what you think.
You guys are even worse than us Americans, at least some of us fight back against the atrocities we commit.
You guys refuse to believe that your side has done horrible things too.
You'll feel better when you admit that, then you won't feel the need to defend every choice your leaders make.
You are the world's biggest hypocrites, other than maybe the Israelis with their whole evacuation convoy bombing.
You and Israel would probably get along great, what with the unbridled hatred of minorities.
I fully admitted multiple times in this conversation alone that china has done bad things. So now I know you don't know how to read.
Some people don’t deserve to be given a voice based on their political beliefs.
That's both one of the stupidest and dangerous things I've seen someone say. In my opinion, you qualified yourself for your own comment.
Yeah particularly those like yourself that wants to silence people. Absolutely should get no say.
It's been 44 years since their war with Vietnam. It's been 11 since they were involved in Mali as part of a multi-state force.
So decades and they defended a compound. Yeah?
Much more recently than the 70 years you claim though.
No it's not. I said 70 years since they attacked. What you're talking about is China's slow retreat out of Vietnam. That would be like arguing that USA invaded Afghanistan last year.
They've managed to be very belligerent in spite of that. They've flown incredibly close to US jets and veered away barely in time, and they do the same with all sorts of ships in the South China Sea -- which they claim as their own to an extent that would be equivalent to the US claiming the entire Gulf of Mexico. They've destroyed fishing ships and left fishermen stranded too.
China is not a model of peace to follow. It is a model for nascent global powers however in how to exercise and test out influence for acts without impunity.
They raped and tortured them form what I understand.
There's also the issue of the potential mass organ harvesting from people in China's "Reeducation Camps"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Yes, I remember when I learned about it, I was shook to the core... The harvesting of organs was cherry on top, absolute horror...
Same thing everywhere, dehumanise a people and they're just chicken in cages. God knows we've been far down that route
It’s apparent some believe silent torture is more civilised than bombs.
They are both horrifying forms of genocide.
maybe the chinese can give them some tips, I heard they're pretty experienced in handling minorities...
"you just build a giant factory around them and start exporting"
And some camps for them to concen....to focus and recreate.
wow, says by the nation who abuses Filipino fishermen, claiming they own the entire West Philippine Sea
Dude, Huawei allegedly partnering with China to identify Uyghurs.
Projection gaming. Classic China lmao
Their 9-dash line claim failed. So they have freshly-baked 10-dash line lol
More dashes, more chances of winning
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point
So many Palestinians dead....do you understand how much free labour you could've gotten out of them?
Because the Chinese government treats Muslims so well, right?
I wonder what they would do if the Uyghurs revolted... oh wait, we do know, we have precedent, just look how they treated their students.
Did they get bombed?
The Chinese are more frugal in their methods of genocide, but the disregard for human life is about the same.
No but they are forced into re-education and labor camps and have their organs harvested among other things
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations
Nope, just got kidnapped and their organs stolen.
Nope, just shot and ran over by tanks to such an extent they were not even recognizable
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
cocks my block button
I am tired of "arguing" with them (it's not an argument in my head if it's bad faith)
So I usually call them a fucktard tankie and block them at this point
I'm very inclined to ignore West Taiwan's position on matters of ethics and morality.
Pro-tip: If you’re pitching a Taiwanese company, saying “West Taiwan” is almost a guarantee of winning the business.
Genocidal China has problem with more genocide? Whut?
This is one of those things that is so set in people's minds, I'd love to know what you actually imagine happening when you say it - like what you're picturing.
I've been giving friends pop quizes about Xinjiang when they bring it up, so far not found a single person who knows anything about any single part of it.
It's interesting because so many people claim to be deeply concerned about it but no one ever seems to have any real desire to learn about it, I've seen a million infographics this week about Palestines population and the history and everything but no one ever posts facts about the situation in China even though it's mentioned endlessly in glib comments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
But have you given your friends any pop quizzes though?
“Friends”
At a guess, it may be because it's not as easily accessible by the western media. If they can't report on it directly, they won't give it full attention apart from the occasional opinion piece or blog and that won't make a headline or sell papers.
No money to make, no reporting to be done.
I thought the CCP hated Muslims too.
Gee, maybe religion isn't the sole factor in all of this?
Communists hate religion. The CCP is disingenuous.
The CCP doesn't define communism.
But they are communists.
Gaza has basically been an open air concentration camp for 16 years.
But the sheer balls on China to spout this rhetoric.
Here's an idea? Let the Chinese government administer Gaza! They have experience reeducting Muslims right? Then all Gazaouis muslims will become Jewish, Christian, atheist, you name it! Possibilities are endless.
They'll all be Chinese!
😐
No, there'll be plenty of Jews in a few days as well.
Holy shit.
^sometimes, ^we ^need ^dark ^humor ^to ^make ^it ^through.
Thank you for supporting the idea and sorting out the details! You are right, gazaoui buddhists gonna have it rough. Also sorry for making assumptions without insulting you, I'm new around here
So Palestine is now supported by russia, Syria, Iran, China, all the greatest and most fair countries in the world.
It's quite an obvious geopolitical win for them. It's not hard to notice that the "western" reactions to the Russian occupation of Ukraine is pretty inconsistent with the support of the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. Obviously support for Ukraine is the right thing to do, but again, inconsistent policy is easy to critique.
You're conflating multiple things. Most notably, you're conflating criticizing Israel with praising Hamas.
Exceedingly rare W
Bravo. You nailed it. Thank you.
At the “start” of this, I didn’t really have an opinion. But that’s mostly due to lack of knowledge and the complexity of the issue.
I was initially siding with Israel as they were hit first, but their response has made me rethink things.
I’m still really undecided and am unqualified to make an opinion anyway.
People were on TV news saying the Israelis are like Native Americans getting their land back 🤣🤣🤣
The graphs here go to 2008 and the situation has been going on for decades before that
It's OK not too have a side. Israel and Palestine have been going at it for so long and the history is so complex that there is literally blame on both sides.
The fact that you consider yourself unqualified to make an opinion probably makes you more qualified to do so than 95% of the idiots out there whose opinions are already firmly established.
Do you feel the need to take a side
The only side I give a shit about are the civilians just trying to live their lives
The pressure is all over these comment sections. Not this one in particular.
Interesting thought, when you have countries sending aid to one side or the other, or protests pro one way or the other, makes you think you should have a side.
It's really complicated. If you trace back why people did what they did, including motivations, you'll end up centuries back. I stopped in the Russian revolutionary time period last time I tried.
Is it even safe to start from the Ottomans?
Goes even further than that I suspect, but I'm not sure. I would seriously not be surprised though if you could trace it to the Romans in Jerusalem.
The Romans created the diaspora in the first place. How relevant that is to the modern conflict is debatable. Zionists certainly use the ancient Jewish kingdoms as evidence of their legitimacy.
I think it does trace that far back then. The diaspora is likely a large contributing factor in why Jews were so often persecuted in Europe, which was what created the desire for a Jewish state in the first place. And I do think that is a fair desire and claim, but the way the British did it was completely wrong.
To generalize this out to other wars and conflicts, even regular old arguments, there are almost always pre-existing conditions and tensions leading up to the first major attack. Even things like WWI, where the catalyst was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. But there is quite obviously more to the atmosphere, national ambitions, etc. etc. that make it so that the separatists wanted to assassinate him, and make it so that Austria-Hungary wanted to invade Serbia and used this as an excuse. A war would have happened anyway, no matter who attacked first.
Iarael's response is to destroy the terrorist organizario that is responsible for all of this misery.
And how does that justify bombing evacuation convoys?
Israel didn't bomb evacuation convoys, from what I know at least, it's fake news.
Gaza civilians afraid to leave home after bombing of 'safe routes' - The Guardian https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
Here is proof, you can decide for yourself who did it
Arguments, not proof, also unstated ones - we only see drawn conclusions. Israel didn't confirm or accept blame, but I won't deny it could've been a mistake or a moment of confusion. But that would still not be "attacking evacuation convoys", but an isolated case, especially since, it seems according to the article that the designation of safe roads happened after the strike - though the timing is also not exact.
Israel does not want to harm innocent civilians. If you don't believe that, surely you agree that it has nothing to gain from that but bad influence.
They have lots of land to gain, they are already using this to attack people in the west bank
If Israel wanted land why did it agree to several 2 state solutions (which palastinians declined)? Why did it exit Gaza?
There are videos, so which part is fake news?
They even took the time to analyze shadow placement for time and location verification
History has proven time and time again that this is the worst possible way to do that. Israel is either stupid or is acting intentionally with another purpose.
I think this is unprecedented. Everything about this actually, not just Israel deciding to end Hamas... So I don't know if history showed this before, I do know that previous attempts at pacifying Hamas - as opposed to ending it - did happen, and we definitely see now they achieved nothing...
Oh are they going to ban Likud?
Having seen what Hamas did, can you really deny they're terrorists, on the same level as ISIS? Filming themselves, kidnapping teens, rape and torture, beheading babies... Parading half naked bodies in the streets to spit and cheer at.
I want Netanyahu out of office. But he's not running around doing that, don't be ridiculous.
"Before the Hamas incursion and subsequent Israeli military response, it was believed that Israel and Saudi Arabia, driven by a common animus toward Iran, were working toward a normalization of relations, a development that could have shifted the dynamic in the Middle East."
Who wants the dynamic in the Middle East to remain unchanged?
What is there's to like, really?
Oh wait you're serious.
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Oh wait you're serious.
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As long as Hamas still actively holds hostages its fair game.
The US calls out something bad and people point out the hypocrisy: "wHaTaBoUtIsM"
Comments for this post:
I liked how Vlad Vexler put it. I'd try to paraphrase, but it's probably better to let him speak for himself:
https://youtu.be/nbPZ5m_WOYs?si=Q0B760C3LFa27AsX
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/nbPZ5m_WOYs?si=Q0B760C3LFa27AsX
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Wtf I love Israel now