How would you go about getting this rusted axle nut off?
The wheel hub on this corner hasn't be replaced in at least half a dozen years, so there's been no reason for the axle to come out. I've got a torn CV boot, and this car isn't really worth the $500 CAD for an axle replacement *at the shop
I've tried 1/2" drive tools, a shitty second hand mastercaft air gun, a 24" breaker bar, and a propane torch that seems to have fuel flow issues. and penetrant, of course. So far, hasn't budged.
update: thank you everyone for the advice, however I'm calling it. I got too many other unfinished tasks, I'll let this one go to the shop and do some OT this week in the time I'd have been fucking around with it.
I did drill into the rust around the threads and pry the washer collar off (there was no staked material left at all) to remove material and get penetrant in deeper, but this just isn't what I want to be working on right now.
edit: fuck it I did it
59 replies
Heat again, and add an extension pipe to the 24" breaker bar for even more leverage.
And remember, you're heating to make the part expand, so don't heat the bolt, heat the nut/threaded socket
updating this thread as it is top comment:
I broke my 1/2" 24" breaker bar using body weight and bouncing on it
I said fuck it and decided to just pay the shop and work OT this week to cover it
I got annoyed with work and said fuck it and went and bought a 2/4" drive breaker bar, a TS8000 torch, and ordered a socket
I tried a couple heat cycles and while output is way higher but it's not a pencil flame so I was just kind of heating everything up, including probably too much of the wheel bearing
I am still working the overtime anyways, but I went for extra bike rides on the local mtb trails to make up for it (found some fun stuff, too)
the socket arrived while I was biking this morning, so ten minutes ago I tossed the jack handle on the 3/4" breaker and it broke free on the second try
now on to the suspension bolts, and hopefully my air hammer can knock the axle free of the hub
gentlemen, we have achieved success. thank you everyone for the encouragement
shop quote was $360+tax ~=$405
I spent $25 on a 3/4" drive socket and $101 on a 3/4" breaker bar. plus $125 on the TS8000 that I'm not sure I needed for this. plus time/mileage driving around and fucking around with this. plus $165 on the axle itself from rockauto, which will arrive next week. total = $416
it's been a pleasure saving money with you folks
What I had to do once was put a 6 ft. Pipe over the breaker bar so that the end is on the ground, put the car in neutral, then push the car slowly until something breaks. In my case it was the nut that broke loose.
Alternatively, you could cut a slit through the bolt then hit it until it splits.
I did that once and broke the ratchet of course. Had to go get a real breaker bar.
I will be trying this once I clean some rust out. easy to try to get it to roll down my driveway
mostly trying to do this without pissing my neighbours off lol
I got stuck like that once and then ended up with too much "springiness" to make any progress, even by standing on the extension. I instead opted for a shorter extension and used a floor jack to lift the end. I stayed away from the stuck nut in case the breaker bar suddenly flew off and released its potential energy into my face, but I still have no clue if this was a genius idea or I got very lucky.
I’d do that, then blast the inside of the bolt with compressed air just before trying to take it off. Since the bolt has a convenient recess to blast air into without it deflecting and cooling the nut.
Canned air duster works, too. Invert it and it comes out supercooled liquid. Hit the stub with that while the nut is hot. Might be enough diffrential to break it free.
I'd do like a can of WD-40 soaked for an hour before heating and trying again.
If you're legitimately struggling I'd find something more purpose made for the task than WD40. Sure if it's all you got it's better than nothing, but an actual penetrating fluid works so much better on really stuck nuts.
WD40 is primarily a water displacer and light lubricant. I would recommend Kroil instead.
To start with, that is a stake nut. You can see on the bottom about 5oclock position the edge of the nut is dented in, that locks it to a keyway on the cv axle shaft. There's not much left of that ofc but it's still holding something in place and not helping. Usually have to grind that off or pry the staked part out using a screwdriver.
I borrow a 3/4" anvil high-flow pneumatic impact wrench for stuck axle nuts. On clean west coast cars I can use my normal impacts but anything with the slightest modicum of rust needs the most torque you can throw at it. Use a high quality black 6pt impact socket to have the highest chances of removal without rounding the nut.
Something else you can do is put a heavy duty breaker bar on it that is longer than your tire, then drive the car backwards/forwards to apply torque. This usually breaks most breaker bars though, unless you get a 3/4 or 1" anvil.
Honestly at this stage I am assuming the end of that CV axle is cooked. I have very little hope that the threads will be usable once it comes off- and seeing as the CV axle holds the wheel bearing together, its not something I would chance. You can get aftermarket cv axles that usually last maybe 50k for under $80 US, which they suck but it is no 500CAD that you probably got quoted for an OE axle.
If that isn't an option you could leave the outboard joint alone and disassemble it from the inside half by removing the knuckle from the car (disconnecting brake caliper, control arms, and the shock/strut) and sliding the axle out of the trans. Most CV axles can disassemble from one or both sides for a boot replacement.
If the nut totally fucks off and you are SOL on the axle, drilling out the axle center in progressively larger holes until the threads are gone and the outer piece falls off might be your best bet.
OP listen to this guy about it being a stake nut. It is not gonna move unless you get that metal divot out of the notch.
Cleaner example
two points of note:
I regularly see people on YouTube ignore the staked material and just twist it free
there wasn't actually any staked material left lol, it was just rust. not rusty steel. rust.
but yes, I think cleaning up the rust as best I could around those threads did help - I drilled it out and a dozen places and snapped two small drill bits doing so, but I think it helped some penetrant get in there as well as clear out some of the material preventing rotation
Staking is there to prevent the slow unscrewing of a nut during road vibration.
My 5 year old Milwaukee impact gun will take that off without unstaking. That’s not what’s stopping the nut from moving.
When you use a breaker bar it helps to unbend the staking, but since axle bolts are usually under 200ftlbs of torque, applying 200lbs of reverse torque will also unbend the stake.
yeah my plan is to replace with a cheap axle, so cutting the nut off is an option. this car is now a winter beater + truck replacement, so low mileage. plus idk if it will even last another year due to all the other repair costs that it might, does, and will require
to everyone else that commented, thank you for the advice
I will give another shot tomorrow and try to actually clean the rust at the end of the nut off, ran out of time today. it didn't budge at all, but this impact really is much lower power than I'd hope. my 1/2" breaker bar looked like it was ready to pop just from what I could apply by hand. I'd tried to pry the staked material out, but there was so much rust I couldn't even tell if any was left to begin with, and my tool was too large - I'll drill it a bit tomorrow to clear the rust out of the keyseat
You're making too much work for yourself for just a torn boot. If you're not wanting to spend the money to fix it why bother replacing a boot? You're still going to have to clean out and repack the joint with fresh grease or it's just a waste of time. Plus you need band clamping pliers. At that point you've already done more work than you would have just replacing the joint altogether.
Slap a split boot kit on there, drive it until the cv joint/axle or hub is worn out and then replace them both at the same time. You can get them both with better quality and cheaper at rockauto than the junk at the local parts store. $2 or $3 hundred at most.
If you're absolutely determined, just buy a heavy duty 1 inch drive impact. It'll come in handy for the rest of your life.
If you don't want to spend the money then:
In addition to all the bs everyone else has said (including knocking the stake out), torch, penetrant, etc., put a cheater pipe on the end of the biggest breaker bar you can find, lift the vehicle up about as far as the jack will go, set the bar so that the handle is against the ground and lower the vehicle until something busts.
Be sure to place a block under the lift point that's tall enough to keep anything from scraping the ground when the vehicle comes down.
And that's your litmus test. If the breaker bar pops before the nut then just buy a decent impact or the replacement parts.
Source: former mechanic.
Edit: Oh, if you can get a cutting tool in there, you can also cut a wedge out of the nut, use an air hammer with chisel tip. It works surprisingly well.
if I can get this nut free, I'll be replacing the whole axle with a cheap one. odds are very good that it will outlast the rest of the car
split boots are hard to find up here, it seems. there's like one Dorman option on Amazon and it doesn't seem like a great design and also allegedly doesn't fit Subarus.
the jack handle on breaker bar and moving/dropping the vehicle is going to be my approach this afternoon
edit: nvm, snapped my 1/2" breaker bar just using body weight. let's see if Canadian Tire still honours the MAXIMUM lifetime warranty
I had one Subaru that gave me so much trouble I had to pull the whole axle, knuckle and all. I actually broke the mounting flange on the knuckle trying to press the axle out with a 30 ton shop press. That's how bad the corrosion/bonding was. The other side came loose with just a good knock with the hammer. Go figure.
Well, be safe and good luck.
I went back on my giving up, and updated the top comment thread here
but yeah I got it loose with a 3/4" drive breaker and cheater
Hey that's awesome man. Good job!
They can be a bear for sure. But it was no match for your determination 👍
Saving this for my upcoming repair.....
It works in a pinch. You can also just use a jack under the bar but it's a hair more sketchy.
Just wait for no nut November
Soak it in Penetrant Blaster for like, at least two hours. Then try the breaker bar and impact again. If it still doesn't move, your could try using an air chisel on the edge, trying to spin it loose with the air chisel. The last resort air chisel has never failed me, but you do need to be careful not to damage threads or surrounding parts.
Also, double check the manual if the bolt is left hand thread or right hand thread. Don't want to tighten the bolt and snap it thinking you are loosening it.
Oxy-acetylene. It can't be tight if it's liquid.
I'd probably start by using a punch and a heavy hammer to hit the edges of the nut around its circumference in the hope of breaking up the rust enough that it turns with one of the methods you already have. If that doesn't work, escalate. A length pipe over the breaker bar handle to extend it is the cheapest escalation, though you increase the chances of breaking the socket or the bar.
A sufficiently powerful impact tool will almost certainly do it, but if you have to buy it new, you might end up 500 CAD on this job anyway.
Everyone knows tool costs don't count as they can always be used for other jobs
yes my new 3/4" breaker bar and 32mm socket are definitely going to be used on other things haha
I guess if this car lasts long enough to do another wheel bearing or, it'll get another use
Seriously though I finally bought a high torque impact (and bought into a different battery charger ecosystem because it was exclusive at the time).
I’ve used it lots since then, but I’ve also started a classic car restoration side business since.
It’s been clutch when scrounging the local pick junkyard as well.
You need to clean the crud off the axle end, soak the nut in Aerocroil, then heat it cherry red. Then put a breaker bar on it.
Note that I'm going off the level of crud currently shown on the threads.
Finally somebody who understands.
Creeping oil, temperature change, shock. That's how you do it.
Maybe you can find some sort of cap on there? To hold in penetrating lube? Fill it up nd let it soak for a couple of days.
Ideally you have on oxyacetelene torch and a 1" impact that will separate and vibrate it into submission. Otherwise you could get a functional propane torch, heat up the outside of the nut, and hit it with the biggest wrench and cheater pipe you can find. Like 6+ ft. long cheater pipe (that thing is rusted to hell).
The nut still looks like a nut, so all is not lost. It's just stuck.
Here's what you do:
Repeat this process until it comes off. Chances are it'll pop loose by step 4. But keep that torch handy. Yes, it's more-or-less what you've already done, and it will come off if you keep at it.
Add a 6' iron pipe to that breaker bar. Borrow a torch without fuel issues. Prey to the grease gods
Exactly. I used an old 8ft 2inch cast pipe and broke these loose on several rusty old cars in Minnesota. One time I had to bounce on the end of it, but it eventually gave up.
Using a drift or hammer directly on the end of the bolt can also help to shock things loose.
Medium weight atomic weaponry should take care of that.
Any chance you have a neighbor that might have a serious impact driver
We're gonna need a bigger gun.
You're not the first to turn to the internet when trying to bust a nut.
Paraffin wax can work surprisingly well if you heat the nut and melt the wax against it. Capillary action pulls it into the threads and has accomplished some amazing feats for me.
problem is that the threads aren't even accessible due to rust lol
I see mostly the same advice here as elsewhere, but its nice to hear first hand reports, as well as keep the community alive with content. I'm impressed by the amount of responses to this
At least half a dozen years? Like 6 years? I usually don't remove hubs in 6 years :)
Subarus eat wheel bearings, so it's actually out of spec that this hasn't come out for a hub replacement in that time.
I do a wheel bearing about every year and a half, it seems. oddly, it's slowed down as the rest of the suspension has worn out more. although I don't know what quality of parts shops have used in the past
That's rough
I’ve heard that 50/50 acetone and ATF does wonderful things.
That and one of those Milwaukee impacts with enough torque to make the earth spin backwards.
I can second both of these suggestions - the acetone/ATF mix is effective and my Milwaukee 3/4" impact has undone some worse looking stuff than that even without penetrating fluid (it's also snapped the heads right off some similar diameter bolts when they refused to budge, which did at least allow me to continue so I counted that as a success).
You already got all the good tips (big ol chunk of pipe as breaker bar extension being the best), just here to say I'm rooting for you lol. Keep us posted!
broke my breaker bar at lunch with bodyweight. warranty replacement an hour ago, but I'm not even going to try with a cheater bar lol
I think I'm just going to let this go to the shop. I misremembered their quote, it was $400 after tax and not $500. not quite as much.
it'll take me at least 6 hours of fucking around to get this off, and I'm getting some shit at work for projects being behind for reasons entirely attributable to those who are giving me shit, so I might as well do some overtime and overall reduce the stress in my life right now. I do enjoy working on cars, but it's rather depressing when there's no visible progress or certainty that it will be successful.
If I'd had the option of sending stuff to a shop there are plenty of times I probably would have too. As-is, I can tell you that sometimes the more of a struggle the sweeter the eventual victory :p
Sorry about your breaker bar, that's pretty weak. I remember one time having me and the boys all jumping up and down on the end of an 8' chunk of pipe on mine and it held out alright. Actually a beam style torque wrench with the measurement part broken I found at a parts yard, not like a hardcore pro unit or anything. Imo if it can't even hold up to your body weight return it and get something that can, this project aside they're an important tool
$400 ain't bad though, thanks for the update
Is it possible that the nut is reverse threaded? Ie, clockwise to undo it?
Bunch of good suggestions in the comments. I'd also take a wire brush to any exposed threads and knock some of that junk off.
lol this is after the steel wire brush. I need to get in there with a pick/punch/drill today and carve it out.
If all else fails, cut the nut (as mentioned by others, a cutting torch is useful here).
But these days they usually don't seize beyond the ability of a penetrant and a cheater bar.
A better impact. I recently had to remove the bolt from the end of a crankshaft. I borrowed an air impact from a neighbor (a mastercraft) and it did nothing. When I took it back he said "I've got another one do you want to try it?" The second one undid the bolt like it was only finger tight!
I think the mastercraft was rated for ~300ftlb, the 2nd one about 600.
Then I'd put a split boot on it and rock it till it clatters.
One of those induction heaters might work if the coil fits there but you probably would've already tried that if you had one. They're not exactly cheap either.
Personally I'd just drill the nut and split it.
Had a stuck nut once that wouldn't budge even with penetrating oil and a bigass 3/4 drive impact.
Ended up needing a 10ft pipe on the breaker bar and the weight of 2 grown ups at the end of it.
The 10ft bar doubles as a security feature because when it finally moved it sounded like a bomb went off and I was glad to be that far away. Good luck.
Looks wet. Presume you used PB blaster?
I would just PB and sit on the impact wrench until it comes loose. But I’m not a pro by any means.
What’s the year, make and model of the vehicle? Maybe it doesn’t come off like that?
Maybe it can already come off but the hub is rusted to the plate in which case you can drill a bolt into that hole on the right side in the picture and try to pry it off.