I watched Gallipoli with the family when I was about 14. I had a total meltdown. Iconsolable for the rest of the day. I have been obsessed with ethics--fair to say it's a special interest--since I was like seven years old. So, I guess it doesn't seem simple to me, but I still get really, really upset about unfairness, even if it has zero to do with my own life.
I remember years ago I saw a joke online that said something like, if there’s a difference between right and left socks, you’re autistic. I was like, that’s stupid, obviously there’s a right and left sock, and I’m not autistic. A few years later, BAM, autism diagnosis.
Soooo...yeah, morality is simple. Do least harm. Easy as that.
I got so tired with trying the "rules for thee but not for me" approach of every single group to morality that something snapped and I began to follow idea law=moral code. It took years for me to go back to trying to figure out morality.
In the end I gave up lol. We all have to judge ourselves, because the moment we offload figuring it out to anyone else they are gonna bend it so it works for themselves. ^^
My theory on morality is autistic people tend to develop more logic-oriented personalities. Its not a result of autism, necessarily, but a correlation.
It doesn't because people into those things should usually understand the basics of consent, and also don't generally want to be treated that way by people they aren't fucking.
Not into CBT specifically, but on a similar side of the house, and yeah, consent is the big thing.
"Treat people as you wish to be treated" doesn't mean do exactly what you'd want done. Consent is king. You want consent, they want consent. I love strawberries. A good friend is deathly allergic. I would love to be given a strawberry desert. That would kill my friend. I'm not going to forcefeed my friend strawberries just because I like em, but I may give them food.
I can’t stand to wear underwear, bra or socks. Packing is always a breeze. Just .. pants and shirts and one pair of socks in case it’s a long day where I’ll start to sweat in my shoes because THAT is worse than the feeling of socks.
When I was a kid, I went through a phase where I didn't want to wear socks at all. Didn't like the sensation. Then I went through a very long (decades) phase where I would wear my socks inside out. I realized that it solved a lot of the sensation issues.
For the past several years though, I have been on my third phase of socks; merino wool. Specifically the ones marketed for hiking. The kind you buy at an outdoors store like REI. I can wear them like normal, and the feel kinda like a blanket. Such great socks man...
I used to wear only those merino wool socks, but as I've been getting older and colder I've started a collection of oversized snowboarding socks. They are so warm.
Wearing socks inside out is huge. Some socks are better right side out, but is rare. I also agree that Merino wool kind of solves this problem, but, as a general rule, “wear your socks inside out” should be in the autism handbook.
Ive always* liked knee-high socks. Cant stand ankle socks, cant stand regular cut socks, and thigh-highs don't stay put without garters, so they can fuck off too. Basically I don't like feeling pants rub against my legs, if the sensation terminates at some distinct point.
If I cant wear knee socks I wont wear socks. If I don't have to wear shoes (can wear sandals or go barefoot) I don’t because I hate socks, and shoes, and general toe restrictions.
But, similar to your wool solution, I recently found ski socks. High quality, elastic doesn’t degrade quickly leaving them loose, etc. and no toe seam at all. They are a bit tighter than I’d like but thats probably a perk rather than a detriment. Have further to go to wear out.
Darn Tough socks are the best. They're expensive, but worth it. I got a few pairs for hunting and now they're my go-to in the winter. They come with a lifetime warranty, but the pairs I've had for like 10 years show no signs of wear.
Its a serious question though. What about wearing socks throughout the timber floor house? If you don't wear docks you get dirty feet, if you wear socks you get dirty socks
Morality. Logic. Patience. Kindness. All go out the fucking window the moment my toes in their always-double-knotted shoes feel the suffocating tickle of sock seams.
As an autistic person, morality is simple. People should be allowed to live, hurting people is bad. War and death are bad.
But if that sock seam gets in the wrong place, I can fully imagine commiting war crimes that would have me tried at the Hague or offered a high ranking position on a team of scientists recruited by the US government.
Not really. Spreading the word and building community to fight back against injustices and not tolerating intolerance goes a long way. No, I'm not gonna go killdozer on someone, but if everyone felt a little more pissed off and less distracted we could have some momentum.
Not really. Spreading the word and building community to fight back against injustices and not tolerating intolerance goes a long way. No, I'm not gonna go killdozer on someone, but if everyone felt a little more pissed off and less distracted we could have some momentum.
You think wrong. Psychologists do use a heightened sensitivity to injustice as a diagnostic criterion when trying to see if someone has ASD.
And to highjack this comment as well to correct the record on your view of empathy and autism: empathy can be roughly divvied up into cognitive empathy (reasoning why someone is feeling a certain way) and emotional empathy (recognizing that someone is feeling a certain way). The former strongly depends on one's theory of mind, which tends to be under developed in people with ASD. Saying that someone with autism has "reduced empathy" is reductive and can lead to wrong conclusions (for example, one could conclude that autistic people care less about justice).
In my experience, "stunted empathy" refers to the reading part. As in we're bad at reading facial expressions or situations unconsciously like neurotypical people do without even thinking.
What comes off as coldness is just missing information. Thats the frustrating part.
But the actual feeling/response isnt stunted, necessarily. In may even be unusually strong, but I think that is down to personality.
listen socks are not complicated. i get the light grey boot socks. they are great for my work boots, and are light grey so you can wear them in sneakers. i collected and removed all my socks and replaced them all at once with the exact same sock and brand. now i just throw them all in my sock bin, everyday i reach in and always have a matching pair. no muss no fuss. simple as can be!
though morality is also easier but still, socks are not that complicated
Some autistic people hate the sensation of wearing socks. Just the feeling of the fabric on your skin, the pressure of the seam. I think. I don’t have an issue with it.
How many years did you deal with crappy sock problems before you took the nuclear option?
Cuz the solution part is the easy part when you figure out what works for you. Its getting to that stage that has them labeled “complicated” for so many. For me, it was 35 years until I discovered socks for skiing are exactly what I want. I don't have sock problems anymore, but for 35 years socks were complicated.
i’m am going admit here that my intention was to prove the op correct, by showing that i spent way too much thought on my min maxing sock peradime, and then dismissing morality as a solved game.
Dont have any sock things. Although i have the opposite whre I have recently been wearing odd socks tho cuz sometimes I cant find the other pair for some reason and I just dont care.
For morality I think it is complex, but a lot of moral dillemas today are very simple. I.e helping the homeless. The process of helping the homeless can be complex, but whether u should is a simple YES. But people huff and puff about that the homeless are lazy, or that homeless people are drug addicts etc.
I find it difficult to not judge those types of view but i try to realise my empathy should extend to them aswell since they're human aswell. The might have particular trauama reasons why they feel so averse to helping others in need.
I think also seperating your own hatred of someone from morality can be difficult and I think its important to actively think about that. This can be where morality can warp.
So overall, I think our pereception of morality is complex since we have various biases and emotions. Morality itself imo is often (not always) more simple than we make it out to be.
58 replies
I watched Gallipoli with the family when I was about 14. I had a total meltdown. Iconsolable for the rest of the day. I have been obsessed with ethics--fair to say it's a special interest--since I was like seven years old. So, I guess it doesn't seem simple to me, but I still get really, really upset about unfairness, even if it has zero to do with my own life.
I remember years ago I saw a joke online that said something like, if there’s a difference between right and left socks, you’re autistic. I was like, that’s stupid, obviously there’s a right and left sock, and I’m not autistic. A few years later, BAM, autism diagnosis.
Being told to do something I'm doing, or accused of shit, makes me fly into a rage instantly.
Soooo...yeah, morality is simple. Do least harm. Easy as that.
I got so tired with trying the "rules for thee but not for me" approach of every single group to morality that something snapped and I began to follow idea law=moral code. It took years for me to go back to trying to figure out morality.
In the end I gave up lol. We all have to judge ourselves, because the moment we offload figuring it out to anyone else they are gonna bend it so it works for themselves. ^^
yep, pretty accurate.
My theory on morality is autistic people tend to develop more logic-oriented personalities. Its not a result of autism, necessarily, but a correlation.
Treat others how you wish to be treated. It's pretty easy.
Socks that slide down or are a bit too small? Kill me 😊
I'm the opposite. I want my sock small. I can't stand a baggy sock. I usually have to buy a smaller size than my foot.
The Golden Rule kinda falls apart if you're a masochist into CBT.
It's not like "Treat others like they express they want to be treated" has that much worse of a ring to it.
It doesn't because people into those things should usually understand the basics of consent, and also don't generally want to be treated that way by people they aren't fucking.
Not into CBT specifically, but on a similar side of the house, and yeah, consent is the big thing. "Treat people as you wish to be treated" doesn't mean do exactly what you'd want done. Consent is king. You want consent, they want consent. I love strawberries. A good friend is deathly allergic. I would love to be given a strawberry desert. That would kill my friend. I'm not going to forcefeed my friend strawberries just because I like em, but I may give them food.
Why would you want an area of land devoid of strawberries?
To put their friend in.
Only masochists are into cognitive behavioural therapy tbf…
Every time someone mentions the therapy by acronym, though, I think of the other one!
I can’t stand to wear underwear, bra or socks. Packing is always a breeze. Just .. pants and shirts and one pair of socks in case it’s a long day where I’ll start to sweat in my shoes because THAT is worse than the feeling of socks.
When I was a kid, I went through a phase where I didn't want to wear socks at all. Didn't like the sensation. Then I went through a very long (decades) phase where I would wear my socks inside out. I realized that it solved a lot of the sensation issues.
For the past several years though, I have been on my third phase of socks; merino wool. Specifically the ones marketed for hiking. The kind you buy at an outdoors store like REI. I can wear them like normal, and the feel kinda like a blanket. Such great socks man...
OMG, are you me?
I used to wear only those merino wool socks, but as I've been getting older and colder I've started a collection of oversized snowboarding socks. They are so warm.
And colorful too!!
Wearing socks inside out is huge. Some socks are better right side out, but is rare. I also agree that Merino wool kind of solves this problem, but, as a general rule, “wear your socks inside out” should be in the autism handbook.
Ive always* liked knee-high socks. Cant stand ankle socks, cant stand regular cut socks, and thigh-highs don't stay put without garters, so they can fuck off too. Basically I don't like feeling pants rub against my legs, if the sensation terminates at some distinct point.
If I cant wear knee socks I wont wear socks. If I don't have to wear shoes (can wear sandals or go barefoot) I don’t because I hate socks, and shoes, and general toe restrictions.
But, similar to your wool solution, I recently found ski socks. High quality, elastic doesn’t degrade quickly leaving them loose, etc. and no toe seam at all. They are a bit tighter than I’d like but thats probably a perk rather than a detriment. Have further to go to wear out.
Lol, snowboarding socks here. Are they the same thing? I suppose they would be.
Darn Tough socks are the best. They're expensive, but worth it. I got a few pairs for hunting and now they're my go-to in the winter. They come with a lifetime warranty, but the pairs I've had for like 10 years show no signs of wear.
Hurting = bad. More hurting = more bad.
The rest is surprisingly easy to derive. Not sure why people struggle with the concept...
But socks, oh my... Where could I possibly begin.
but less hurting means less money for me, can’t have that
they must just be silly for not liking to hurt for a good cause because they are not people
-rich fucks the world over
Is hurting Putin, Xi, Trump or Netaniakhu bad?
paradox of tolerance
also simply keep the social contract and you get to be included in do unto others (golden rule)
look into how best to run successful game theory
short answer is equal reprisals
They're the ones creating more hurting.
If you kill a murderer, the number of murders in the world remains the same!
....... But if you kill two murderers...
Yes it maths
It also maths if you kill a murderer, who has killed more than one person.
Yes, however the sweet relief of death is not hurting.
Oh, I didn't say "kill", I said hurt.
Its a serious question though. What about wearing socks throughout the timber floor house? If you don't wear docks you get dirty feet, if you wear socks you get dirty socks
If you wear socks, you get clean feet and eventually a cracked tailbone.
My feet slip and slide on pergo. Socks actually improve my traction, and I have been wearing them ever since a bad fall.
Morality. Logic. Patience. Kindness. All go out the fucking window the moment my toes in their always-double-knotted shoes feel the suffocating tickle of sock seams.
As an autistic person, morality is simple. People should be allowed to live, hurting people is bad. War and death are bad.
But if that sock seam gets in the wrong place, I can fully imagine commiting war crimes that would have me tried at the Hague or offered a high ranking position on a team of scientists recruited by the US government.
Massively. I get so angered by obvious injustice while others just go ehhh and back to tiktok.
and both were equally successful is doing something about those injustices
Not really. Spreading the word and building community to fight back against injustices and not tolerating intolerance goes a long way. No, I'm not gonna go killdozer on someone, but if everyone felt a little more pissed off and less distracted we could have some momentum.
just make sure you protest in your government approved protest spot and wear your che guevara fitted tshirt to show message unity
the reason they want to give luigi the death penalty is his actions worked until power felt safe again to be evil
Not really. Spreading the word and building community to fight back against injustices and not tolerating intolerance goes a long way. No, I'm not gonna go killdozer on someone, but if everyone felt a little more pissed off and less distracted we could have some momentum.
Yes how are people struggling with; killing is abuse, animal abuse is evil, therefore I should not buy products sourced from animals
Feeling injustice is pretty universal. I don't think it's characterising autistic trait.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/autism-justice-sensitivity.html
You think wrong. Psychologists do use a heightened sensitivity to injustice as a diagnostic criterion when trying to see if someone has ASD.
And to highjack this comment as well to correct the record on your view of empathy and autism: empathy can be roughly divvied up into cognitive empathy (reasoning why someone is feeling a certain way) and emotional empathy (recognizing that someone is feeling a certain way). The former strongly depends on one's theory of mind, which tends to be under developed in people with ASD. Saying that someone with autism has "reduced empathy" is reductive and can lead to wrong conclusions (for example, one could conclude that autistic people care less about justice).
i think you are missing how many people have stunted empathy in the world and how they tend to fall conservative in politics
I thought, autistic folk have stunted empathy by definition? (they can't reliably read other people's emotions).
In my experience, "stunted empathy" refers to the reading part. As in we're bad at reading facial expressions or situations unconsciously like neurotypical people do without even thinking.
What comes off as coldness is just missing information. Thats the frustrating part.
But the actual feeling/response isnt stunted, necessarily. In may even be unusually strong, but I think that is down to personality.
so the autistic response if they have high enough function is to learn to fit in to avoid pain, they generally want to be apart of a functioning group
whereby oddly becoming quite good at learned emotional response
the difference is a sociopath in power feels no need to care or hide it
you’d think society would care but as long as said person in power gives them someone to hate they get a pass
Autistic people have a more emotional sense of justice.
>9000
We talkin Broly levels of rage
Too much, it's a problem.
I don't think it's simple, though.
And if the cock on the dunghill crows, then it migt rain or it might not.
listen socks are not complicated. i get the light grey boot socks. they are great for my work boots, and are light grey so you can wear them in sneakers. i collected and removed all my socks and replaced them all at once with the exact same sock and brand. now i just throw them all in my sock bin, everyday i reach in and always have a matching pair. no muss no fuss. simple as can be!
though morality is also easier but still, socks are not that complicated
Some autistic people hate the sensation of wearing socks. Just the feeling of the fabric on your skin, the pressure of the seam. I think. I don’t have an issue with it.
How many years did you deal with crappy sock problems before you took the nuclear option?
Cuz the solution part is the easy part when you figure out what works for you. Its getting to that stage that has them labeled “complicated” for so many. For me, it was 35 years until I discovered socks for skiing are exactly what I want. I don't have sock problems anymore, but for 35 years socks were complicated.
i’m am going admit here that my intention was to prove the op correct, by showing that i spent way too much thought on my min maxing sock peradime, and then dismissing morality as a solved game.
Dont have any sock things. Although i have the opposite whre I have recently been wearing odd socks tho cuz sometimes I cant find the other pair for some reason and I just dont care.
For morality I think it is complex, but a lot of moral dillemas today are very simple. I.e helping the homeless. The process of helping the homeless can be complex, but whether u should is a simple YES. But people huff and puff about that the homeless are lazy, or that homeless people are drug addicts etc.
I find it difficult to not judge those types of view but i try to realise my empathy should extend to them aswell since they're human aswell. The might have particular trauama reasons why they feel so averse to helping others in need.
I think also seperating your own hatred of someone from morality can be difficult and I think its important to actively think about that. This can be where morality can warp.
So overall, I think our pereception of morality is complex since we have various biases and emotions. Morality itself imo is often (not always) more simple than we make it out to be.