My laptop is worth more than i bought it 3 years ago. Strange world.

Turns out I should have bought an OLED even though I already had the first version...

I was an OG pre-order and this price point would have been a big fat hell nah from me. Even more true 4+ years later.

Same, and I too bought the LED and OLED. I sold my LED for $420 (with the new 1 TB SSD from the OLED I bought, added back grips and the original dock) to my friend cause he wanted to get one for his brother.

NO WAGE ONLY CONSUME

And somehow weed street prices

Don't worry, trump controls the fed now. He'll make sure the dollar becomes worthless, and everyone will be billionaires!

I'm sure the peeps at Valve are getting paid very well.

Not if everyone else goes up too

I mean, it was also popular because it was relatively open in a field of closed handhelds. You could play, basically, whatever you wanted on it. Price was a factor as well... but it was never cheap. Just less expensive than other options.

I definitely wouldn't have gotten one if it was more than the $350 I paid. Although after I got one I would have considered paying more.

Noooo way would I pay $750+

For real. Doesn’t this just push people toward some of the cooler Lenovos, etc?

There's better handhelds out there now, but they're more expensive. The Lenovo legion go 2 is supposed to be good if you install bazzite or steam os on it but the top end models are like £2000

Nah. It's all relative. If everything goes up accordingly, then steamdeck will remain a good buy.

At this stage, the price hike of the steam deck is probably more about making the price of the upcoming Steam Box and VR headset look like an easier pill to swallow, and not about actually needing to raise the price of the steam deck.

Don't forget the body count!

Thanks OpenAI*

https://swappa.com/listings/steam-deck

Frankly, I'd recommend just buying a Mint condition Steam Deck from Swappa or eBay. And I'd recommend doing it soon BEFORE these sellers catch on to the price increase.

Likewise, I’ve been unemployed for 18 months and have watched as several things I would really like to get have become too expensive anyway.

Except games are $80...

It's been the budget option anyway in value, if not price.

Yeah, and they're probably not making much profit on it. The cost of components is ludicrous.

They're kind of fucked with the steam machine & frame. Unless they can source cheap components they'll probably have to price the things so high it pretty much ensures these products are DOA. I dunno, maybe they'll keep delaying release.

Edit - I just checked, the prices have not gone up in my region, at least not yet. And they're actually available again.

(the comma is a decimal point)

developpers might look at making games playable on less powerful hardware

Yes, please let this lead to devs focusing on efficiency again. I don't need real time physics simulations and "lifelike" facial animations that still haven't found a way out of the uncanny valley after like two decades.

I want snappy load times, download and install sizes in the tens of gigabytes, not hundreds, consistent frame rates even when there's a lot going on on the screen. I have more VRAM than God, yet I still get stuttering in some games on high graphics settings. It's pathetic.

The main argument against the idea that the steep price increases in PC consumer hardware will lead to a Future of "everything runs on the cloud" and "the end of personal computing" is that the makers of software that can't run on the cloud and remain decent (most notably game makers, as proven by the totally failure of things like Stadia) will just target their software the the hardware that's expected that people will have in 2 - 5 times, which as far as we can tell is "the same hardware as people have now" because only a small fraction of gamers can afford to upgrade.

If people can't afford upgrading their PCs, software makers can't afford to demand upgraded computers.

I would even say that the trend towards that predates this shit - in the last decade or so it's pretty much only AAA games who have been pushing the envelope in terms of hardware whilst increasingly Indie games are targetting lower end hardware.

That's also good for Linux because, lo-and-behold, Microsoft is one of those software makers who with spectacularly bad timming just put out a main product that demands upgraded computers exactly when it's way harder for people to afford upgrading their computers.

Food is already going to go up in the future even if they opened the Straits today. Crops have sowing and harvesting seasons. Miss the sowing season because of a lack of fertiliser and you've no harvest. And those windows for sowing are fixed and known, you can't just go "oh I've got fertiliser now so I can go plant my crops." If you're out of the sowing window you can plant the seed but it's not going to germinate and grow. And for a lot of crops we're in the middle of that season right now.

Or firebombs and guillotines...

That is SO not worth it. Everything is completely fucked. Guillotining Sam Altman may not drop prices, but I still think it's a terrific fucking idea.

AI's demand for memory is pretty difficult to really get across because there's a lot of complex factors, but whatever you can imagine is the demand, it's higher than that.

You can look at pre and post AI to get a slightly better picture, but then the numbers don't look terrible and so the demand isn't as clear.

2020-2023 primary customers were smartphones, laptops, PC. Data centers were eating about 32% of the global market for RAM. Monolithic DDR4/DDR5 was the main product and High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) was about 8%. Total memory set being sold was like 16GB kits to 64GB kits, obviously server kits were going out, just the majority was those mostly for PCs.

2025 hits and the primary customer is AI Data Centers. To put it at scale, you have literally everything that uses memory (and I mean literally every fucking thing on this planet) and AI Data Centers. And the break between those two bins are 30% and 70%. AI data centers are consuming more than twice the memory of literally everything combined that uses RAM that isn't an AI data center.

The primary RAM being made now is HBM, which is way more complex. 23% of all the wafers that will be used to make integrated circuits will be HBM RAM. And by wafers, I mean all the chips that will be made this year, lock, stock, and barrel. If you randomly picked up a wafer out of a fab you have a almost 1 in 4 chance to pick up RAM. And finally the average kit going out is 1TB to 2TB kits, which is a lot more than the old 16GB to 64GB kits.

Now I mention HBM because it eats more wafer, that's because unlike DDR4/5 RAM, HBM RAM is a three-dimensional circuit. 12 to 16 layers of silicon is stacked on top of each other. So HBM consumes about 300% more silicon than other memory (not every layer is one-to-one in size). So you don't just have one fab making chips, you have several fabs making the layers.

The next thing is that building fabs is complex. I hate trying to explain the complexity, but you can't do it overnight. Usually you have to build these things over the course of five years. Just to give you some idea of how technical the construction is. If you had a road within 500 feet of a chip fabricator sitting on a regular concrete floor, the car driving on the road would create enough shakiness in the Earth to cause the chip fabricator to bounce around too much. So when they build the place that have to literally isolate the small earth quakes humans walking around inside the place cause. This requires very complex floor building. And this is just the floor, not to mention how clean the place has to be kept, isolated as much as possible atmosphere, literally specific sections are under vacuum. It's massively complex to build ONE of these.

The complexity comes with a price tag. Average cost to build one memory making factory is around $15B to $20B. It's serious cash, but even if you have 5 years and $20B, there's a specific bottleneck. ASML. ASML is the only company on the entire face of the Earth that makes the chip making machines. They've indicated that if you ordered a machine today, you can expect it roughly 1½ to 2 years from now. That's how many people have put in an order for the machines to make memory.

So all that aside, there's one more bottleneck. HBM has to be stacked in layers, there are very few people on this planet that can do that, and they have years long backlog. And even then, most times the stacking fails. About 30% to 50% of all HBM is trashed because the layers fell apart. And the people who stack are entirely different people than the layer makers. But they're the same people that take that DDR4/5 wafer and cap it into that little black rectangle you see on your sticks of memory. So they have pretty much ~100% of their employees doing nothing but stacking layers of memory together.

Another thing is economic prioritization, HBM is about 500% more than DDR4/5's price tag per GB. A fab producing wafers of DDR4/5 is making about $x.xx. A fab producing a couple of the layers for HBM is making about 500% × $x.xx on average (it's complicated because of the layers), even with the stacking issues. And the profit margin on HBM is 70% versus DDR4/5 before AI which was fingernail thin. SK Hynix was actually taking a loss on production of DDR5 at about -1.6%. So going from -1.6% to 70% profit has created a crowding out effect. Not to mention that since there was a bit of a bleeding out period after COVID, some literally stopped making RAM. Which has made the issue even worse.

The last thing before I run out of characters is the AI growth. AI needs about 300% more memory every ten months. That's how fast these models are growing. That's caused a panic buying and also caused a rushing to fulfill. The industry is losing it's collective mind because the money to be made is big and so lots think it can't last and trying to get their cut before the gravy train derails.

The fact that it's extremely specialised equipment that's needed to make the chips of which there is a limited supply due to there being basically only one manufacturer of lithography capable of making chips at the nanometer level that is required, and the factories that produce chips are extremely complicated to make. And you can't just make more machinery to make the chips because they require rare earth materials, China controls most of the global market for rare earth minerals and because of Trump they're rationing them.

ram is a volatile commodity that, while difficult to manufacture, is not as difficult as say a gpu or cpu. As a result in the past manufacturers have been pushed to sell supplies at or even below cost. It seems like a no brainer to start up a new fab right now but the reality is that would take years to get to a point where it’s outputting any kind of reasonable supply and in that time prices could (and hopefully will) return to a much thinner margin

Apple could, for example, start up a fab. They have the cash. But it’s a lot of cash, it doesn’t stop (the fab needs continual significant investment to stay competitive), and when ram prices dive they are stuck holding the bag for this 15-20 billion dollar fab that needs several billion dollars a year to keep playing the game. This is why they stick to fabrication of things where they can differentiate (eg m series processors) and control the market. And then they can do what they’re doing right now: leverage their huge position to get far better prices than someone like valve, who’s barely a player in the hardware game, and ensure the architecture of their custom silicon maximizes ram performance (uma) and even use that influence to codesign new types of ram that align with their interests (lpddr5x)

There are very few places on earth that are capable of producing the silicon wafers used in RAM. These factories are still producing at the same rate as before but buyers who pay more (large companies with data centers) are buying them so there are fewer left over for normal consumers (hence the high prices). So why not scale up by making the factories bigger or faster? They are, it will take decades to do that because the process is so advanced. Why not just scale out by building more factories for producing the parts? They are, but that too will take decades.

I'm not going to look this up, because I'm expecting that there's a number of reasons, but you can pretty much point the finger at supply and demand of components, as well as inability for companies to scale production, and the fact this is likely a bubble.

Think about it from the standing of a ram manufacturer. You're already pumping out as much product as physically possible, or you need components or materials from other vendors. You aren't just sitting on idle machines, if there's a market what what you're doing, you're going to push as much of it as you can. All of a sudden, you can charge more because there's a ram shortage, but you can't scale up your business because with this rise there's likely to be an equal fall in the not too distant future, and scaling up production is a slow process. Even if you did, there's a strong possibility that you'd be restricted by other bottlenecks.

It's a huge business risk for not much reward. Better to take the win, do what you can try maximise it without exposing yourself to potential losses.

The short version is imagine the world has a production capability of X sticks of RAM per day. Up until now it consumed X sticks of RAM and all was good. Suddenly a new player enters the market that requires Y sticks of RAM and is willing to pay a lot more than everyone else, now the total amount of RAM is X-Y (and just to give you an idea of the size of the problem Y is approximately 40% of X). Factories might start working more and try to produce more, and they might increase productivity by Z, but if Z<Y we're still in a deficit so we have over demand and lack of production. RAM factories are not made overnight, so it takes months if not years to open new ones and bump the amount that's actually able to be produced.

It will pass, lots of companies are rushing to open more factories, China has started producing RAM too, plus the new player that was buying Y before and signed to do so for months to come is trying to buy less now.

Can't you buy a replacement screen and upgrade it yourself?

Edit: looks like ifixit just has led screens.

Consumer spending is something like 68% of the US economy. I suspect that's the case in most countries?

Consumer spending drives the US economy.

https://youtu.be/zyQwAhppWj8

It’s almost by design. Take personal computing away from the masses. Control what can be done and learned on a cloud device. More control over the masses with the benefit of a cloud computer subscription.

I don't think multi billion dollars is enough to fight this behemoth. Especially when it has basically all the support of the corrupt government. It's a suicide and everyone knows it.

yeah I don't know about buying now but I sure am glad I got one after the first price drop.

even the base model is 1130$ without tax now 😭

i wished the steam machine would be below 1000$, but at this rate it will be over 2000 lol

I've got a Lenovo Legion Go and its superior to the Steam Deck in quite a few ways.

I got an N150 mini pc for 200 last year

I think it's more likely that normal processors will start putting the ram stacks on die rather than memory manufacturers start making normal ram again lowering the prices.

Yes.

Three good news for Steam is that Moore's law died a while back; so the current Steam Machine design will probably still play the majority of all games ever published in two years or in five years.

Still, the AI bubble cannot pop soon enough for my comfort. I want to keep modern conveniences like online shopping, that only continue to work if the vendors don't vibe code all the trust away.

It’s a matter of preference. The etched glass screen is slightly hazier and seems to have slightly less color saturation, but is better if you’re playing in an environment without controlled lighting.

I bought the 512 GB glossy and the screen is fantastic IMO. I ended up upgrading to 1 TB essentially by accident, as a mini-PC I purchased for server use came with a 1 TB 2230 NVMe but I was swapping the storage from a server that had a hardware failure, so basically free upgrade.

Its just a preference. Personally I absolutely loathe matte displays. Don't understand why anyone likes them. It doesn't block reflections, it just smears them across the entire display while dulling the colors. But lots of people like them.

The pricing isn't even about demand in this case, but the cost of hardware components.

You skipped downloading and installing a recovery ISO, but close enough.

They discontinued the 256GB LCD model late last year. OLED has always been 512GB or 1TB.

Interesting take. Honestly I don't think people are ready to entertain the idea that Valve may not the consumer loving, cannot-shoot-themsleves-in-the-face billion dollar tech company their fans seem to paint them as, but to respond to your actual point...

The Steam deck is an open platform so not a guarantee that a new user will result in game sales, it's possible (but not easy enough imo) to put your weekly free Epic games on there and forego the Steam store. Or pirated games.

Also the Switch 2 sales numbers have been huge and Nintendo have an established reputation among the general population. So they have a better relationship with parts manufacturers (can navigate lower BOMs) and are more guaranteed to make their money back. Valve have no such guarantee.

This price increase is still an obscene amount and I'll be surprised if people still buy Steam decks going forward. Especially given the state and direction of android gaming.

16gb of ram cost 100$ more now. The SSD cost another 100$ more. We know they are for profit. Steam deck is just too expensive to make. That’s it. Why you feel entitled to getting hardware cheaper than production cost?

I mean, no one ever doubted Valve was a for profit company.

They aren’t going to sell a product if they don’t make a profit.

Obvious

They want to make more profit.

O don't think that's what's happening here, RAM prices are ridiculously high, and the Deck has RAM and SSD. We also know they're selling it close to cost so they wouldn't have been able to take the hit on those increases, and the price increase seems to be exactly what the components have increased in price.

They have the potential to enshitify at any moment.

That's also true, and something we should be weary of, but I don't think it's warranted on this case.

how is it different than Apple locking its customers in a walled garden?

Because their hardware is not locked. You can do whatever you want with your Deck. Wanna pirate games? Go ahead, wanna install windows in it? Be my guest. That's part of the reason why Valve can't sell these cheaper than manufacturing cost like most consoles are, because it's an open architecture people would just buy it in bulk to do servers and shit like they did with the PS3 before it was locked down for this exact reason.

What happens if they decide to make all the games you bought unavailable for licensing reasons? What happens if they shut down and suddenly all your games are gone What happens if they lock their hardware?

What happens if the government starts abducting children for their secret brainwashing institution? What happens if they shut down all personal own property? What happens if they lock all of the frontier?... Don't you think you're overreacting a little bit to RAM being more expensive and a product that has RAM becoming more expensive too?

Well, they're not gaming charity, sure. I don't think anybody expected them to sell their hardware at a loss.

Well, you are right and that's why one should also support smaller stores like gog. However I think this is not valves corporate greed but more a hardware price increase thing. I think the reason why valve is okay to its customers is because its a private company and not a publicly traded one. The moment Gaben leaves and another head of the company moves valve to the stock market, the ship is wrecked.

Steam Deck and SteamOS are no walled garden.
That's the difference.
Feel free to run Bazzite on the SD, or even Windows, lol.

If all my Steam games are gone, I continue playing games from my GOG library through Heroic Games Launcher.
Again, see: no walled garden.

What are they supposed to do? RAM and storage prices are hardly factors in Valve's control

Are you ok?