After a lengthy (around 4 hours) discussion among our roommates, we came along with a common definition of what is commonly referred to as a “sandwich”:
- Article 1: A sandwich is a dish consisting of a container and a filling.
- 1.1: The container must consist of one or two connected parts
- 1.2: It must be possible to retrieve the container without destroying it
- 1.3: The container must consist of a starchy base.
- Article 2: The sandwich must be able to be eaten in public without any non-edible third-party items (including tables, cutlery, napkins, and so on).
- Article 3: The customary way of consuming the sandwich must be compatible with the process described in Article 2.
Note: The sandwich is culturally defined; therefore, Article 3 is based on cultural criteria. In case of doubt, Articles 1 and 2 take precedence.
Everything here have been debated from an occidental and french persoective.
Me and my roommates would be very happy to explore new perspectives and contradictions as it would force us to make a more precise definition of the sandwich
According to us, hot dog is a sandwich as it fullfill article 1 and 2
It indeed doesn't really fit the definition we have. It is a real source of disagreement among us between those who wants to reject it from sandwich and those who wants to review the ruling.
This edgecase is really interesting and your opinion on that matter is welcomed
Si tu me demandes de lister 100 sandwiches différents, jamais je ne citerais le croque-monsieur.
Je crois que c'est parce qu'il ne devient croque-monsieur qu'une fois chauffé.
The danger here is asking a native English speaker their opinion when it could be a very cultural distinction. A U.S. dictionary will unambiguously call it a sandwich, but that could be simply to facilitate explaining what it is to a less familiar audience; essentially ”it’s a sandwich with these unusual characteristics”.
We also have “hot open face sandwiches” though which is typically a single slice of cheap sandwich bread topped with hot sliced meat (usually turkey or roast beef) and hot gravy.
But if you want my opinion, yes - they’re all sandwiches (albeit non-traditional).
Absolutely from article 1 as disturbing as it look.
I would also argue that 2 ramen blocks are not easy to eat in the street or anywhere as it would make fragment everywhere, making it hard to pass article 2
Also the cultural factor (no society eats 2 ramen noodle block like that) can eliminate it from the sandwich classification, but it remains in the sandwich logic.
Ok in english it's a dish, the word i used in french was "met" which desigh only the food, bot the plate, meaning "dish[met] made of container of container and containee" implies both are part of the met and then edible.
Sorry for the translation unclarity
Ok. We have ice cream sandwich. We have ice cream in waffle cone. At what angular divergence between the waffle layers does it stop being a sandwich and become a cone?
No. It's in the subcategory of bread based meals like sandwiches and pizza, scones, etc. The topology is different. Sandwiches are built with layers. Hot dogs have a bread cup/container with extra condiments wedged on top.
Hot dogs also require a sausage. Sandwiches are agnostic to sausages.
Subs here split a length of baguette or Cuban bread, or long bun. But not all the way through. Then they open it like a hot dog bun & put in the fillings. I hate hot dogs but if a sub is a sandwich, a hot dog is a sandwich.
I'm not sure that's a valid analogy. Losing an entire wheel would be more akin to losing one half of the bun.
The bun has lost nothing so material. The closest bike analogy might be a snapped brake or gear line, but even that might be too much, because the break in the hotdog does not significantly increase its danger level.
If a hoagie or hero is a sandwich, then it is only logical that a hotdog is also a sandwich.
EDIT: Since my criteria here has been cited by others and this comment, as initially presented, contributes very little to the discussion, I am amending this comment with the following information: Based on Ken Burns' Baseball documentary (at least my memory of it; been a few years), the hot dog has its genesis with guys selling food outside of a baseball park. They were selling sausages that were coiled, and served on a bun. The buns ran out and so they grabbed some Italian bread sold nearby, cutting the sausages and laying them in the bread, sliced sideways. This posits that the foundational concept of the hotdog was a conventional sandwich.
Yes it is. Corn flour is just as valid as a flour as any other grain! Therefore a tacoshell is a type of dough productm and a sandvich is topings between two baked dough products. Never has it been said it needs to be open on both sides!
I find US Americans to be unreliable narrators when it comes to bready foods. They'll often shoehorn foods from different cultures into their narrow categories.
Only the Earl of Sandwich may designate what is or is not a sandwich. The original Sandwich sandwich was Roast Beef. Anything else is just sparkling white bread.
Given that a sub isn't a sandwich (no it isn't you uncultured filth sandwich is exclusively for the rectangle bread, the normal bread is a bocata, you call it sub) a hotdog isn't either. It's a sub for sure tho.
"Open face sandwich" is only a sandwich if it comes from the Sandwich region of southeast England. Otherwise it's just a sparkling smörgås/brødskive/bread with spread or topping
An open-faced sandwich is not a sandwich because nothing is being sandwiched. Unless the "open face" is part of the presentation, intended to be enclosed upon consumption.
Yes, and that's why it's called a sub. But if you have to be really picky about it, the fact that it's two separated halves kinda makes it also a sandwich
Excuse me, but "2 slices of bread" rule for me is nonsense. I do sandwiches by cutting a baguette in the lenght without separating in two parts. Maybe it's due to different cultural interpretations, but for me hot dog is a sandwich, just a specific one
That would exclude subs, banh mi, hoagies, baguette with butter and ham (possibly one of the greatest sandwiches), and the breakfast sandwich (egg, sausage, cheese, on English muffin). Better definition is needed.
actually i'll go the other way on this: a hot dog ds not a sandwich, and neither is a hamburger. sandwiches are eaten cold. if the bread and/or filling is hot then it's something else. otherwise a pizza would qualify as a sandwich.
At one point I was pretty broke and bought the super cheap hotdogs and basic sliced sandwich bread for use as buns.
Still considered them to be hotdogs, despite being sandwich shaped.
A hot dog is a taco. See: https://cuberule.com/
Thank you, finally some sense in this thread.
No, no, no. A taco implies a tortilla which is a type of bread. But of a specific thiness and generally unleavened.
A sub is a thicker and different bread. Do it doesn't qualify as a taco.
I mean, I'm just relaying the rules, I don't make them.
Obviously, you have never seen a French taco.
A taco is just a wrapped salad, which is soup with less dressing. Therefore, a hot dog is actually soup.
After a lengthy (around 4 hours) discussion among our roommates, we came along with a common definition of what is commonly referred to as a “sandwich”:
- Article 1: A sandwich is a dish consisting of a container and a filling.
- 1.1: The container must consist of one or two connected parts
- 1.2: It must be possible to retrieve the container without destroying it
- 1.3: The container must consist of a starchy base.
- Article 2: The sandwich must be able to be eaten in public without any non-edible third-party items (including tables, cutlery, napkins, and so on).
- Article 3: The customary way of consuming the sandwich must be compatible with the process described in Article 2.
Note: The sandwich is culturally defined; therefore, Article 3 is based on cultural criteria. In case of doubt, Articles 1 and 2 take precedence.
Everything here have been debated from an occidental and french persoective.
Me and my roommates would be very happy to explore new perspectives and contradictions as it would force us to make a more precise definition of the sandwich
According to us, hot dog is a sandwich as it fullfill article 1 and 2
So croque monsieur/madame is not a sandwich?
It indeed doesn't really fit the definition we have. It is a real source of disagreement among us between those who wants to reject it from sandwich and those who wants to review the ruling.
This edgecase is really interesting and your opinion on that matter is welcomed
Si tu me demandes de lister 100 sandwiches différents, jamais je ne citerais le croque-monsieur. Je crois que c'est parce qu'il ne devient croque-monsieur qu'une fois chauffé.
But once the croque monsieur has been cooked, it can be eaten cold. The croque madame has an egg on top, not a sandwich.
Hmm. But you eat them both with a fork and knife. (And a panaché bien blanc, it's law.)
The danger here is asking a native English speaker their opinion when it could be a very cultural distinction. A U.S. dictionary will unambiguously call it a sandwich, but that could be simply to facilitate explaining what it is to a less familiar audience; essentially ”it’s a sandwich with these unusual characteristics”.
We also have “hot open face sandwiches” though which is typically a single slice of cheap sandwich bread topped with hot sliced meat (usually turkey or roast beef) and hot gravy.
But if you want my opinion, yes - they’re all sandwiches (albeit non-traditional).
by this definition, two uncooked ramen noodle blocks stacked on eachother is a sandwich.
Not without a filling!
Spread some peanut butter between them though, and now we're talking!
one of them is the base, the other is filling.
It would be a toast then, you must make the container be around the containee
there was nothing about that in the rules!
The info probably got lost in translation. Container and conatained implies on around the other. In french this sounds obvious, maybe not in english
i was assuming it was lost the other way around; surely you are not arguing that open-face sandwiches like smørrebrød are not sandwiches?
Absolutely from article 1 as disturbing as it look.
I would also argue that 2 ramen blocks are not easy to eat in the street or anywhere as it would make fragment everywhere, making it hard to pass article 2
Also the cultural factor (no society eats 2 ramen noodle block like that) can eliminate it from the sandwich classification, but it remains in the sandwich logic.
Coffee in a paper cup is then a sandwich.
Most people don't consider paper cup as an edible part of the dish, the cup goes in third party accesories classification
There's no rule against inedible containers. Only that it's made from starch.
Ok in english it's a dish, the word i used in french was "met" which desigh only the food, bot the plate, meaning "dish[met] made of container of container and containee" implies both are part of the met and then edible. Sorry for the translation unclarity
Ok, I will eat an ice cream in a waffle cone sandwich then.
Woah never thought of this, it quite destroys the definition, thank you for participating in science methodology of proving wrong theories i love it
Ok. We have ice cream sandwich. We have ice cream in waffle cone. At what angular divergence between the waffle layers does it stop being a sandwich and become a cone?
This is written like the founding fathers wrote it back in the 1400s
Yes. A few weeks ago, some coworkers and I mapped out the entire sandwich taxonomy. You attain sandwich nirvana once you derive these definitions:
Now it all makes sense. Be at peace.
Therefore tacos are soup
IMO the existence of soup in a bread bowl shows that tacos and soup are even closer to each other, evolutionarily, than most scientists think.
And bread is just a baked soup
So is a bowl of cereal soup or salad?
Cereal is soup. Salad is also soup, with less broth. When you get down to it, every food is soup
Lasagne is pasta not bread though?
Starch is starch
So if a sandwich just requires starch and fillings, could a baked potato be a sandwich?
You could slice it nearly in half, fill it, and then pick it up and eat it.
Potato bread exists.
Are all foods just sandwiches?
Yes.
No. Soups aren't sandwiches. Nor is steak.
CMV: pasta is an unleavened bread
Pasta dough is flour and eggs. Therefore, pasta is bread. And by extension, lasagna is just a multi-layered sandwich.
It is a taco.
And I would posit that a taco is a type of sandwich. Therefore, a hot dog is a sandwich.
A hot dog is a taco
Tacos are on tortillas.
Hmmm, if I put all the internal ingredients of a taco on a single slice of bread and fold it, am I eating a taco or a Mexican themed sloppy joe?
Both, because tacos are a type of sandwich
Does the presence of a product made from ground grain always result in whatever is served on them becoming a sandwich?
Yes.
Layer cake?
Bread sandwich
This is what every Object Oriented Programmer is pondering on
And as it so happens I know C++ and C# :D
class HotDog : public Taco
class Taco : public Sandwich
No. It's in the subcategory of bread based meals like sandwiches and pizza, scones, etc. The topology is different. Sandwiches are built with layers. Hot dogs have a bread cup/container with extra condiments wedged on top.
Hot dogs also require a sausage. Sandwiches are agnostic to sausages.
Subs here split a length of baguette or Cuban bread, or long bun. But not all the way through. Then they open it like a hot dog bun & put in the fillings. I hate hot dogs but if a sub is a sandwich, a hot dog is a sandwich.
If the bun splits along the fold into two separate halves, does the hotdog become a sandwich?
A hot dog can be, but is not always, a sandwich.
Well, if you're riding your bike and a wheel falls off does it become a unicycle?
I'm not sure that's a valid analogy. Losing an entire wheel would be more akin to losing one half of the bun.
The bun has lost nothing so material. The closest bike analogy might be a snapped brake or gear line, but even that might be too much, because the break in the hotdog does not significantly increase its danger level.
If a hoagie or hero is a sandwich, then it is only logical that a hotdog is also a sandwich.
EDIT: Since my criteria here has been cited by others and this comment, as initially presented, contributes very little to the discussion, I am amending this comment with the following information: Based on Ken Burns' Baseball documentary (at least my memory of it; been a few years), the hot dog has its genesis with guys selling food outside of a baseball park. They were selling sausages that were coiled, and served on a bun. The buns ran out and so they grabbed some Italian bread sold nearby, cutting the sausages and laying them in the bread, sliced sideways. This posits that the foundational concept of the hotdog was a conventional sandwich.
a hot dog is a taco. is a taco a sandwich?
Woah, woah, woah. Now that's opening a whole can of worms in of itself implying that sub's are tacos?
Topologically speaking, a taco can be anything and everything.
either that or hot dogs are 100% sandwiches, like subs. or are you saying orientation matters? is a hot dog on its side a sandwich?
Implying tortilla is required for a taco. A thicker bread would imply some kind of sub
taco is a matter of shape
Neither it's a taco
What holiday features hotdogs as it's traditional food?
Memorial day, 4th of July, etc. Not that hotdog is the only traditional food. But is one of the foods typically eaten on those days.
Thanks. And to answer your question, I think the humble hotdog is a sandwich.
yup
A hot dog is not a sandwich because most people do not call a hot dog a sandwich.
The definitions of words exist based on how we use them to communicate, not to fit into perfectly logical and consistent boxes.
A hot dog is a sandwich in the same way that tomatoes are a fruit.
I posit the most practical and likely least precise definition of all:
Whether something is a sandwich or not is like the difference between art and porn. You know it when you see it.
Could loads of things fall under a technical definition of a sandwich? Totally. Is a taco a sandwich? Please.
Difference between art and porn? Plenty of art IS porn, and plenty of porn is art!
Anyway, yeah, that's kind of off-topic from the definition of a sandwich.
Yes it is. Corn flour is just as valid as a flour as any other grain! Therefore a tacoshell is a type of dough productm and a sandvich is topings between two baked dough products. Never has it been said it needs to be open on both sides!
Yes. A sandwich can be closed on one and open on the other side
I find US Americans to be unreliable narrators when it comes to bready foods. They'll often shoehorn foods from different cultures into their narrow categories.
Only the Earl of Sandwich may designate what is or is not a sandwich. The original Sandwich sandwich was Roast Beef. Anything else is just sparkling white bread.
If it is, so am I - I'm wearing a jacket.
"Any object or objects that is "sandwiched" (i.e. surrounded in the middle) by another object or objects can be classified as a sandwich."
Tacos, hotdogs, burritos, hell even sushi, are all sandwiches.
Butts are sandwiches. So are disc brakes.
Given that a sub isn't a sandwich (no it isn't you uncultured filth sandwich is exclusively for the rectangle bread, the normal bread is a bocata, you call it sub) a hotdog isn't either. It's a sub for sure tho.
No. Sandwich involves two slices of bread. A hot dog bun is, at best, considered one folded slice.
EDIT: Fine, 2+
“An open faced sandwich is not a sandwich” is a bold take.
"Open face sandwich" is only a sandwich if it comes from the Sandwich region of southeast England. Otherwise it's just a sparkling smörgås/brødskive/bread with spread or topping
An open-faced sandwich is not a sandwich because nothing is being sandwiched. Unless the "open face" is part of the presentation, intended to be enclosed upon consumption.
I mean a sub is one bread cut in half
Yes, and that's why it's called a sub. But if you have to be really picky about it, the fact that it's two separated halves kinda makes it also a sandwich
A "sub" is called that because it's shaped like a submarine
"Sub" is short for "submarine sandwich". So...
Excuse me, but "2 slices of bread" rule for me is nonsense. I do sandwiches by cutting a baguette in the lenght without separating in two parts. Maybe it's due to different cultural interpretations, but for me hot dog is a sandwich, just a specific one
Are you saying a Clubhouse, that is made with three slices of bread, is not a sandwich?
See edit
I strongly believe that two (or more) separate pieces of bread are what defines sandwichness. Therefore, no, a hot dog generally uses a bun.
That would exclude subs, banh mi, hoagies, baguette with butter and ham (possibly one of the greatest sandwiches), and the breakfast sandwich (egg, sausage, cheese, on English muffin). Better definition is needed.
So subway doesn't serve sandwiches?
I’ve only been once, years ago, but I thought a “sub” was a bread roll / baguette type thing. If so, then, no, I wouldn’t call it a sandwich.
Wiki says "..a dish typically consisting variously of meat, cheese, sauces, and vegetables used as a filling between slices of bread, or placed atop a slice of bread; or, more generally, any dish in which bread serves as a container or wrapper for another food type."
Subway definitely serves sandwiches, and according to the above definition, a hotdog is as well.
So an open-faced sandwich isn't a sandwich despite having "sandwich" in the name?
In my world open-faced sandwiches are unfortunately just sandwich content balanced on bread.
actually i'll go the other way on this: a hot dog ds not a sandwich, and neither is a hamburger. sandwiches are eaten cold. if the bread and/or filling is hot then it's something else. otherwise a pizza would qualify as a sandwich.
This is just pure unbridled madness. Are you actually claiming GRILLED CHEESE is not a sandwich?!
The more startling revelation is that a Monte Cristo is still a sandwich even though it is served hot.
And pizza is a sandwich when served cold.
yes. it's based on a sandwich but it's its own thing.
At one point I was pretty broke and bought the super cheap hotdogs and basic sliced sandwich bread for use as buns.
Still considered them to be hotdogs, despite being sandwich shaped.
Absolutely. So are tacos and gyros.