I love stealing from shit companies that objectively make life, this world, and humanity shit.
I won't ever steal from a person
But companies that lie, steal, cheat, and try ruining everything to get an extra dollar for the CEO? All is fair, the more the better, fuck you for ruining the world.
Nope! Factually and objectively wrong, no opinion involved.
If it isn't connected to the internet, it isn't using any hosted services. The "stealing" argument, while still wrong, can only be argued if using their hosted services.
This claim is the same as claiming it is stealing if you don't turn on and use a TV, despite owning one.
odern TVs are sold at a loss because they then profit of your data
I strongly doubt that. Maybe they sell at a lower margin to keep competitive, but they'd never sell at a loss. Okay, on paper maybe because they know exactly how to tune those numbers. But in the end, they make profit.
Right, what you agree to is clearly described in legal terms in the product EULA, there is no room for opinion because it is all very well defined. At least for my Roku TV, the EULA includes no kind of mandate for internet connection.
it can't be stealing since nothing is physically being taken from them, nor are we profiting from them.
their expectation on getting our data, isn't theft since it doesn't belong to them in the first place.
it's the same vein that piracy isn't stealing because nothing is actually being taken. it's only duplicated. loss of income, or presumed income... sure, but it's not theft.
Nothing is being taken from them, they just aren't getting everything they planned on. that is not theft. just like piracy isn't theft since nothing is physically being taken or lost.
Yeah, it is not an opinion, it is just plainly wrong. You agree to explicit and well defined terms in the EULA for the product. Opinions aren't relevant, just the facts of the EULA. My Roku TV EULA does not mandate a maintained internet connection, so I never agreed to provide internet to my TV.
I support piracy but just be nitpicky, data theft is absolutely a thing, hackers do that all the time and you could argue piracy is somewhat data theft or intellectual property theft. Half the internet is up in arms about AI's use of intellectual property without compensation or consent.
I might agree with you if it was possible to buy a modern TV that didn't have any smart features, but since you can't the only way to get a TV that acts as just a TV is to never connect it to the internet. In addition, if the manufacturer actually cared about requiring me to connect it to the internet to spy on me they would have made me sign some contract to that effect before I purchased it. It's not my fault if they don't profit off my purchase if I don't use it the way they want; I'm not the one who set the price.
I'd consider it to be protecting my own right to privacy; but if you really want to frame it as stealing: I'm glad to be doing so. I'd even say stealing from these companies is a moral imperative.
Are you doing your part? Or have you spread your cheeks for corporate America?
I would agree if the manufacturers were upfront about data collection being a payment for the device usage.
But they hide it so deep in their legal text how is anyone reasonably support to know. Plus if they really needed the data they could make it not turn on without internet.
It's probably the reasoning that the TV's price is subsidized by the ads they push on the platform. And even if true, I doubt they will pull the ads if they sell it for the "actual" price.
Any product that includes preinstalled software/firmware will have an EULA and terms of use. You agree to the terms in the EULA by using the product. My Roku TV's EULA is very short and concise and does not include any kind of mandate for internet connection.
It basically just says you can only use the TV for personal, non-commercial uses, you're not allowed to reverse engineer or sell the software that is preinstalled on it, you have no right to sue them if you choose to use the produc, and they waive all liabilities. That's it. Pretty standard.
Any product that includes preinstalled software/firmware will have an EULA and terms of use. You agree to the terms in the EULA by using the product
I don't. Especially a forced click is no agreement.
For example if you buy some device at some dealer, then you have the right to use it as you want. This deal is enough and it already gives you all rights that are needed.
If a manufacturer's EULA pops up later (= has not been part of your deal before), then it is void. A click does not make a new agreement, the software maker does not become a participant in your original contract, and does not gain any rights, and cannot restrict any rights that you already have before.
Most products you buy these days have software in them. Anything more complex than a toaster. And some toasters.
But they're not magic, they're contracts. Unless you show them to the other party and they agree they have no force. I never clicked "okay" on my bluetooth headset, my casio watch, or my Instant Pot.
If I can use the TV without agreeing, I'm not bound by the contract.
I never clicked "okay" on my bluetooth headset, my casio watch, or my Instant Pot.
You've never noticed the little paper booklets in the box with all those products? Try reading one next time.
If I can use the TV without agreeing
You literally cannot, by definition, because using the product is the action that indicates your agreement to the EULA If your TV is displaying content on the screen, it's because you completed the initial setup on first boot, which included clicking "Okay, I have read and accepted these terms".
I'm not bound by the contract
You people honestly believe software licenses just don't apply to you? This is sovereign citizen foolishness. This isn't the loophole you think it its, but okay, go ahead and decompile and resell the source code for your TV.
Of course I did, it is actually quite short and concise, and it agrees with me that you're incorrect. Luckily, we can clear up your confusion because the EULA is quite clear and leaves no room for opinion. Please quote the EULA where it states that internet is required to use the device.
This EULA applies to Roku smart TVs and the firmware/software that is preinstalled. Other Roku software services that can be accessed using a Roku TV have additional EULAs, but because I am not using any of those software services, I am not subject to those EULAs.
Copying or redistribution of certain content is strictly prohibited, and digital rights management or other technologies may be used to prevent or restrict any copying or re-distributing of any content, which you agree not to try to circumvent or avoid. Certain content is only available in those countries where the device has been authorised to be sold. If you attempt to access content outside of these countries, the rights granted under these terms will not apply. Some content providers may use technologies to determine or verify your location, and you may not be able to use your Roku product to access content outside of its designated country. You are responsible for complying with any import and/or export laws that apply to your use of your Roku products.
About two years ago they used the digital rights management or other technologies to force users to consent to new dispute resolution terms in order to access their device which wouldn't be possible without internet access.
Well you certainly tried! Swing and a miss. In no way does that mandate internet connection to use the device, and no court would agree with your misinterpretation. In fact, your own link is not even related to the DRM clause that you quoted, and is instead related to their updated arbitration agreement, which has nothing to do with internet access.
Would you consider using 3rd party ink cartridges to be stealing from printer manufacturers??
Similar scenario: the printer is sold at a loss, with the expectation that you overspend on proprietary ink. If you don't buy their ink, you're not allowing them to recoup their losses; 'stealing' the profits they expected to make from you.
I went into my router settings and blocked my TV from accessing my wireless network. It is nothing more than a glorified and huge monitor for my computer. If they think I'm stealing they should leave the next TV they make on the windowsill to cool off.
If I fast forward through commercials on my dvr, am I stealing from media broadcasters too?
If I close my eyes while riding the bus and never see the bus adverts, am I stealing from advertisers?
There's never a guarantee advertisements are seen by target audiences - especially when they're being shown on private devices. If more people than expected are able to avoid an advertisement, thats not theft, that's just poor investment.
Just don't connect it to the internet, and it's fine. Beware though, some of the latest models require internet connection on first boot or it will not function. So check on that before purchasing.
This isn't unpopular it's just stupid, low effort rage bait with zero effort put into justifying or explaining why you allegedly hold this opinion (you don't)
that is kinda true. by using their own system, you see recommendations, preinstalled apps, advertisements, and it listens to your convos. by adding these, many cases the tv becomes cheaper. if you dont use these...ummm...features, the company loses money. technicly not stealing money, but not letting them make money on you.
this is pretty much the reason in my opinion, that ads are now forced on hdmi as well.
I feel like this post is the one that a jurnals will be quoting when writing "In the hindsight, we should've seen that the colaps of the entire tech ineustry was inevitable" articles.
Yep! Just like phones and computers and many other electronics, they sell them to you at or below manufacturing cost and recoup from the EULA terms you agree to at first boot, which includes analytics.
This is true for the Telly TV which is a free ad supported television. Not a video service, it's an actual physical television with an extra screen for ads and a camera to make sure you're not blocking the screen.
SMCF what is with you with the posting of things you clearly are not for. I mean sure its an unpopular opinion but im 100% sue its not actually one of yours. Still take my upvote.
You have been reported for trolling.
Please follow the rules, and defend your opinion, or I will be forced to remove the post.
I have defended my position I did not want it to dominate the conversation.
Good enough.
We're not "popular opinion"
that better be an unpopular opinion 😠
I’d steal directly from their wallet if I had the opportunity
Popular opinion: Good
Exactly! Isn't that great?
I love stealing from shit companies that objectively make life, this world, and humanity shit.
I won't ever steal from a person
But companies that lie, steal, cheat, and try ruining everything to get an extra dollar for the CEO? All is fair, the more the better, fuck you for ruining the world.
I know right,
live stealing from corporations. the steal from us all the time. this barely dents the balance
That sounds like something you would say! 😀
Right? I think this user is hilarious, and this post is definitely on brand.
It's crazy people can't tell he's shitposting with a name like that.
That isn't unpopular its delusional.
It is satire.
A day late
Nope! Factually and objectively wrong, no opinion involved.
If it isn't connected to the internet, it isn't using any hosted services. The "stealing" argument, while still wrong, can only be argued if using their hosted services.
This claim is the same as claiming it is stealing if you don't turn on and use a TV, despite owning one.
from what I'm aware of.
modern TVs are sold at a loss because they then profit of your data.
if that agreement was explicit, I would consider "not connecting it to the Internet" stealing, but a good stealing.
but it isn't explicit, so it is more like you pritecting yourself from data theft
I strongly doubt that. Maybe they sell at a lower margin to keep competitive, but they'd never sell at a loss. Okay, on paper maybe because they know exactly how to tune those numbers. But in the end, they make profit.
i think there are companies that sell product at a loss. like Costco hot dogs. I heard game consoles do too.
My arguement is they sell TVs at a loss, expecting to make it up with my data.
But they don't sell any TVs that DON'T do that.
I'd easily pay $20,000 for a 200 inch dumb tv at 8k, BUT THAT DOESN'T EXIST!!!
So I have to make due with a dumb projector.
for that price order a costum made high resolution dot matrix display for the whole wall.
Some video walls are around that price.
Right, what you agree to is clearly described in legal terms in the product EULA, there is no room for opinion because it is all very well defined. At least for my Roku TV, the EULA includes no kind of mandate for internet connection.
it can't be stealing since nothing is physically being taken from them, nor are we profiting from them.
their expectation on getting our data, isn't theft since it doesn't belong to them in the first place.
it's the same vein that piracy isn't stealing because nothing is actually being taken. it's only duplicated. loss of income, or presumed income... sure, but it's not theft.
i wouldn't consider it stealing. but they still want someone to blame for lost revenue.
Op's other opinion: you should tip your landlord
Tipping is for exceptional service. If I rented an apartment and my landlord gave me two apartments instead I'd probably tip him.
factually not correct.
what is 'being stolen' exactly?
Nothing is being taken from them, they just aren't getting everything they planned on. that is not theft. just like piracy isn't theft since nothing is physically being taken or lost.
This is like the 1800s definition of theft. Its been updated but people keep repeating this over and over.
ok..
Yeah, it is not an opinion, it is just plainly wrong. You agree to explicit and well defined terms in the EULA for the product. Opinions aren't relevant, just the facts of the EULA. My Roku TV EULA does not mandate a maintained internet connection, so I never agreed to provide internet to my TV.
I support piracy but just be nitpicky, data theft is absolutely a thing, hackers do that all the time and you could argue piracy is somewhat data theft or intellectual property theft. Half the internet is up in arms about AI's use of intellectual property without compensation or consent.
Nope, up in arms about that they think they own it now
So they claim to own it now when they didn't own it before and they didn't pay or otherwise compensate for it. That sounds an awful lot like theft
This literally made me start laughing. Hilarious!
Don't stop.
"Stealing" from advertisers is a moral imperative.
Siding with big tech is beneath you, SatansMaggotyCumFart.
Doubt it. The OP actively makes Lemmy and the fediverse a worse and more toxic community.
I wasn't going to connect it to the internet already. You don't need to convince further
I might agree with you if it was possible to buy a modern TV that didn't have any smart features, but since you can't the only way to get a TV that acts as just a TV is to never connect it to the internet. In addition, if the manufacturer actually cared about requiring me to connect it to the internet to spy on me they would have made me sign some contract to that effect before I purchased it. It's not my fault if they don't profit off my purchase if I don't use it the way they want; I'm not the one who set the price.
Yeah this is a bait post.
Oh, you!
I'd consider it to be protecting my own right to privacy; but if you really want to frame it as stealing: I'm glad to be doing so. I'd even say stealing from these companies is a moral imperative.
Are you doing your part? Or have you spread your cheeks for corporate America?
I would agree if the manufacturers were upfront about data collection being a payment for the device usage.
But they hide it so deep in their legal text how is anyone reasonably support to know. Plus if they really needed the data they could make it not turn on without internet.
Why do you think that?
It's probably the reasoning that the TV's price is subsidized by the ads they push on the platform. And even if true, I doubt they will pull the ads if they sell it for the "actual" price.
SmartTVs are kinda subsidized by the fact that TV manufacturers can sell user data. They would be expensive if they couldn't do that.
Maybe the use without giving your data in exchange.
So fucking what?
This is the most unhinged take I have ever heard
GOOD
OP understood the community assignment
Good, smart TVs are cancer. I don't have one, never intend to have one.
What if my home doesn't have internet access?
That's part of the reason why tv manufacturers are kind enough to not require an always-on drm for the tv which I would support if they decided to do.
They factor in the cost of a couple percent of buyer who legitimately do not have internet access and the rest of us subsidize these people.
The contract breaks down though when people with internet access start denying their tv access though.
Contracts require agreement from both parties. This is a choice that the manufacturer made.
Someone didn't read their EULA.
What EULA?
Any product that includes preinstalled software/firmware will have an EULA and terms of use. You agree to the terms in the EULA by using the product. My Roku TV's EULA is very short and concise and does not include any kind of mandate for internet connection.
https://docs.roku.com/published/deviceplayereula
It basically just says you can only use the TV for personal, non-commercial uses, you're not allowed to reverse engineer or sell the software that is preinstalled on it, you have no right to sue them if you choose to use the produc, and they waive all liabilities. That's it. Pretty standard.
I don't. Especially a forced click is no agreement.
For example if you buy some device at some dealer, then you have the right to use it as you want. This deal is enough and it already gives you all rights that are needed.
If a manufacturer's EULA pops up later (= has not been part of your deal before), then it is void. A click does not make a new agreement, the software maker does not become a participant in your original contract, and does not gain any rights, and cannot restrict any rights that you already have before.
Found the sovereign citizen.
Actually, yes you do.
Most products you buy these days have software in them. Anything more complex than a toaster. And some toasters.
But they're not magic, they're contracts. Unless you show them to the other party and they agree they have no force. I never clicked "okay" on my bluetooth headset, my casio watch, or my Instant Pot.
If I can use the TV without agreeing, I'm not bound by the contract.
You've never noticed the little paper booklets in the box with all those products? Try reading one next time.
You literally cannot, by definition, because using the product is the action that indicates your agreement to the EULA If your TV is displaying content on the screen, it's because you completed the initial setup on first boot, which included clicking "Okay, I have read and accepted these terms".
You people honestly believe software licenses just don't apply to you? This is sovereign citizen foolishness. This isn't the loophole you think it its, but okay, go ahead and decompile and resell the source code for your TV.
Of course I did, it is actually quite short and concise, and it agrees with me that you're incorrect. Luckily, we can clear up your confusion because the EULA is quite clear and leaves no room for opinion. Please quote the EULA where it states that internet is required to use the device.
https://docs.roku.com/published/deviceplayereula
This EULA applies to Roku smart TVs and the firmware/software that is preinstalled. Other Roku software services that can be accessed using a Roku TV have additional EULAs, but because I am not using any of those software services, I am not subject to those EULAs.
The 2020 EULA states:
About two years ago they used the digital rights management or other technologies to force users to consent to new dispute resolution terms in order to access their device which wouldn't be possible without internet access.
Roku disables TVs and streaming devices until users consent to new terms
Well you certainly tried! Swing and a miss. In no way does that mandate internet connection to use the device, and no court would agree with your misinterpretation. In fact, your own link is not even related to the DRM clause that you quoted, and is instead related to their updated arbitration agreement, which has nothing to do with internet access.
I am compliant with all DRM features on my TV. 👍
Stealing is cool 😎
Real "The law is the law" type behavior
Is this sarcasm?
Why would it be?
Because the other option is even less... umm... flattering
Only if you think stealing from big companies is bad
You are right. Other example of stealing that comes to mind: trying cigarette once, and never developing addiction nor cancer.
Buying a printer and then never purchasing additional ink is stealing.
I know Right.
I sure love stealing from corporations. hell yeah, stealing from them is good.
This makes me curious:
Would you consider using 3rd party ink cartridges to be stealing from printer manufacturers??
Similar scenario: the printer is sold at a loss, with the expectation that you overspend on proprietary ink. If you don't buy their ink, you're not allowing them to recoup their losses; 'stealing' the profits they expected to make from you.
That’s their mistake for assuming I have an internet connection, I do but they don’t know that
Is withholding, stealing?
Why?
I don't remember when SMCF's ragebait era officially started, but I'm here for it.
It's always been here, you just had to look for it
Oh noo... whatever shall I do with my life!
Too late for April fools. No way you sincerely hold this belief
Cryin' over some of these comments, this one is masterful SMCF. Good to see you back on form.
I went into my router settings and blocked my TV from accessing my wireless network. It is nothing more than a glorified and huge monitor for my computer. If they think I'm stealing they should leave the next TV they make on the windowsill to cool off.
If I fast forward through commercials on my dvr, am I stealing from media broadcasters too?
If I close my eyes while riding the bus and never see the bus adverts, am I stealing from advertisers?
There's never a guarantee advertisements are seen by target audiences - especially when they're being shown on private devices. If more people than expected are able to avoid an advertisement, thats not theft, that's just poor investment.
I haven't bought a new tv yet because i don't want a smart tv. I will never use any of those features. Probably have to shop around the used market.
Just don't connect it to the internet, and it's fine. Beware though, some of the latest models require internet connection on first boot or it will not function. So check on that before purchasing.
Most will have basic functionality without an Internet connection, but they now lock full performance behind connecting to the Internet.
If I'm not using the smart features anyway, i might as well buy a cheap used one.
It's not just smart features. Some lock HDMI 2.2 features behind the Internet, or the highest resolutions
?????
is so satisfactory to steal from capitalist parasitic and decadent pigs, I would do it the rest of my life.
Disagree. Upvoted.
So you support that the manufacturer relies on stealing data instead of selling a good product to make money?
This isn't unpopular it's just stupid, low effort rage bait with zero effort put into justifying or explaining why you allegedly hold this opinion (you don't)
that is kinda true. by using their own system, you see recommendations, preinstalled apps, advertisements, and it listens to your convos. by adding these, many cases the tv becomes cheaper. if you dont use these...ummm...features, the company loses money. technicly not stealing money, but not letting them make money on you. this is pretty much the reason in my opinion, that ads are now forced on hdmi as well.
If they really didn’t want it to work without internet they would program it that way
Now they do! Can't move past the setup menu on first boot unless you connect to the internet, with some of the latest models.
I feel like this post is the one that a jurnals will be quoting when writing "In the hindsight, we should've seen that the colaps of the entire tech ineustry was inevitable" articles.
Yep! Just like phones and computers and many other electronics, they sell them to you at or below manufacturing cost and recoup from the EULA terms you agree to at first boot, which includes analytics.
This is true for the Telly TV which is a free ad supported television. Not a video service, it's an actual physical television with an extra screen for ads and a camera to make sure you're not blocking the screen.
Don't like it? Don't buy subsidized TVs /s
SMCF what is with you with the posting of things you clearly are not for. I mean sure its an unpopular opinion but im 100% sue its not actually one of yours. Still take my upvote.