in the 1960s American cigarette companies used to leave free packs of cigarettes in freshman dorms at the beginning of the school year because at least some of them would get bored and try it.
Who’s actually going to use these if they’re not already a smoker / vaper? Maybe they’re just providing them so people don’t have to get up and go outside for 5-10 minutes to smoke.
I'm still going outside for a smoke when I get my 15. They are only providing pouches (snuff) so people don't have to leave their workstation to get their fix.
I don't want to lose money having to take the opposite of you. The likelihood they are actually just buying this at market price and don't have a contract is so low it might as well be rigged.
In my opinion this is splitting hairs. Chewing tobacco, cigarettes, cigars, etc., are tobacco products having tobacco as a main ingredient. Nicotine gum, pouches, patches, and ecigs are nicotine products as they have nicotine (synthetic or derived) but no actual tobacco. If the got the nicotine from eggplants you wouldn’t call it an eggplant product.
Almost all of it is tobacco-derived, which is why I always found the "tobacco companies are trying to get vapes banned" idea ridiculous. They're the ones making the stuff that goes in the vapes.
I think the point of the distinction is regarding cancer. Tobacco on the gums causes mouth cancer, nicotine maybe maybe not.
Nicotine by itself isn't any worse than caffeine. I hate that puritanical American bulldozers right and left, call nicotine pouches and vapes tobacco products. Shut the fuck up nerds. Pop a zynn and watch some TV.
I am of your same opinion about nicotine, but I will say that the pouches are making my gum receed noticeably after about 1 year of daily use... trying to switch to gum now
I think that's my biggest fear about using them. I think I'll keep an eye out for that at well. If it starts to happen, I'll probably just quit nicotine. I can't put stuff in my lungs and I hate gum.
nicotine independently damages the endothelium (innermost lining of blood vessels) leading to stroke heart attack poor wound healing after injury or surgery etc. even without tobacco
Yeah, I mean there were the amphetamines and opiates that they thought made people better workers too but that was just during periods where people hated reality and they realized the disassociation was worse for efficiency so now just back to nicotine.
Why can't we make our own study that says that the dopamine of watching a live hibachi chef makes us a better slave and at least get a flaming volcano of onion out of this?
Fuck this to hell. I want tobacco to go extinct, not be more accessible.
If there was a button that just made every tobacco plant (and the backups in that one seed vault place) die, I would keep pushing it for days just to make sure it was all gone. Including existing smoking products.
Not sorry not sorry. Addicts all going cold turkey that day.
As a nicotine addict, I wouldn't advise this. Making every one of us go cold turkey in one moment will be the end of humanity. Nicotine withdrawal is no joke.
I don't understand your fury to be honest. It's unhinged. So what happened to make you feel this way?
First, I don't smoke and never had smoked (not considering the passive smoking from being close to smokers), the only "drug" I use non-frequently is alcohol (a vodka-saké beverage).
This said, your paternalistic implied thought ("drugs are bad, people shouldn't use drugs"; are their bodies yours, to begin with? Do you happen to have some kind of ownership over other's bodies? Who gave you this almighty authority, do you happen to be a Demiurgal Archon of sorts?) is missing the forest for the trees.
I'm barely knowledgeable about biology, but I know enough to remember about symbiotic relationships in nature, as well as phylogenetics. The plant responsible for tobacco wasn't some kind of lab creation, IIRC tobacco plant even predates us homininae, and this means there are certainly species biologically interacting with the tobacco plant, perhaps species reliant of tobacco plant (not necessarily because of nicotine, but because it's a plant which siphons nutrients and resources from the soil, displacing water and somehow contributing to water cycles).
The moment this Archonic hubris illustrated by your text were to render tobacco extinct, unbeknownst to you, other species would be going extinct as well, and this may include humans due to how food web is so interconnected in ways we're still trying to figure out. That's part of why we try to classify species taxonomically and phylogenetically, because this is also valuable for us to identify potential interspecies relationships. I mean, this is exactly what phylogenetics is about: study of evolutionary relationships among biological entities.
So, please, seek some phylogenetics and biology awareness before feeding paternalistic, bigoted anti-drug thoughts. Others bodies aren't yours for you to wish for control, let alone other species.
this guy is a proto-fascist, everything I don't like must be forbidden.
And then taking some sadistic pleasure in it.
What a nasty thing.
I would gladly start smoking again just to have the pleasure of blowing my smoke in to this fucker's face and watching him seethe.
Did you read the study? The abstract asserts that vaping is less bad than smoking cigarettes, but there’s a ton of negative cardiovascular effects they link to nicotine alone.
I mean I consume maybe 6-7 mg of nicotine, but probably less, per day by vaping. At 0.8mg/kg I would have to consume over 80 to reach LD50 and I believe that has to be in your blood at once.
My caffeine intake is around 400 mg per day. LD50 is over 20 literal grams.
Going by these numbers it does indeed sound like the nicotine is worse, but neither one is ever going to get close to the LD50. If I were to significantly increase my nicotine intake, it'd get nauseating for me pretty fast. Caffeine I could probably double without noticing a damn thing, but beyond that I think it will start affecting me too much too.
Also that's over a day, whereas I believe LD50 implies it'd have to be in your blood all at once?
I found this review paper interesting and I don't doubt that nicotine can have therapeutic effects but the funding source worried me.
Conflict of interest
Authors YC, XW, XZ, HT, YZ, JZ, and SZ were employed China Tobacco Anhui Industrial Co., Ltd.
The remaining authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest.
The authors declare that this study received funding from Technology Project of Anhui Zhongyan Industry Co., Ltd. The funder had the involvement in the study design, data analysis, decision to publish, and preparation of the manuscript.
Funding Statement
The author(s) declare that financial support was received for the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article. This work was financially supported by the Technology Project of Anhui Zhongyan Industry Co., Ltd. (2022156), Science and Technology Projects of State Tobacco Monopoly Administration (110202201046XX-05), Startup Program of XMU and Fundamental Research Funds for the Central Universities.
I read through it and just thought they were being generous with the fact that they were stating the positives as mostly people with depression and ADHD self medicating with an addictive substance that didnt really help as much as cause a feedback loop that felt better but more addictive...
The fact that they state the funders directly had involvement in the study... Oof.
Fun fact:
The guy that coined the term Utopia, actually meant for it to act as a pun, for "no such place" or to imply it was a false dream.
Such as, people will use the mirage of a utopia to hide the very real dystopia that this path creates.
A Eutopia is an actually "good place". A thing we have not been working towards. George Orwell also called his society a Utopia as it was a false good place.
I imagine you would be fired and charged for destruction of property and then they would make you feel bad by having you apologize to your coworkers for hindering their ability to put forth more work.
Now that's some cyberpunk dystopian shit. Corpos drugging up employees for productivity.
in the 1960s American cigarette companies used to leave free packs of cigarettes in freshman dorms at the beginning of the school year because at least some of them would get bored and try it.
Don't worry, the Kent Micronite filter cigarettes helped with cancer thanks to the power of asbestos.
"Your honor, you can't deny they helped with the cancer..."
I mean that's not new - tech companies will still advertise "coffee on tap" as a perk to work for them
Can confirm, my time at microslop in the mid 2000s included break rooms with coolers full of every caffeinated beverage you can think of.
And no decaf, at least for the ones I’ve seen.
the whole idea of a coffee 'break' was created to pump stimulants into workers to improve productivity.
I think it is the unintended side effect of taking a short break which actually increases productivity.
There are studys that show that constant coffein consumption just make being caffeinated the new normal.
This is why my days are mostly breaks anymore. You should see how productive I am!
Hey with the added benefit of addiction they can't afford to leave the office now!
Who’s actually going to use these if they’re not already a smoker / vaper? Maybe they’re just providing them so people don’t have to get up and go outside for 5-10 minutes to smoke.
Nazi Germany and Methamphetamine
Is there more footage of Hitler tweaking? Show modern nazis what their shitty "master race" looks like.
I don't have footage, but there's a book called Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich by Normal Ohler telling all about the drug use.
Allies used amphetamines too.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/ww2-amphetamine-use
That's fucking hilarious, hitler was a tweaker
Well if you like that, perhaps you'll also enjoy reading about his deformed genitals.
Looks like random addict from the street, just in less usual attire.
Only because they don’t yet have approval to hand out amphetamines
I'm still going outside for a smoke when I get my 15. They are only providing pouches (snuff) so people don't have to leave their workstation to get their fix.
Yeah. I can't wait for my complimentary IV and catheter at my cubicle and 0 breaks.
I used to take smoking breaks without smoking cause it wasnt fair to dish them out to only smokers.
I don't smoke, but would still sometimes go out with my colleagues who do smoke.
What do you think free coffee is for?
Less for the caffeine, more for stopping people from going out for coffee.
Both.
Hmmm, how much you want to bet the tobacco companies slipped a little money under their door mat
I don't want to lose money having to take the opposite of you. The likelihood they are actually just buying this at market price and don't have a contract is so low it might as well be rigged.
bRinG BaCk PErViTIn
If Russia invades Finland just give them a crate of pervitin and they will be in Moscow by sunrise.
Nicotine is synergetic with amphetamines, double win.
I do miss easy access to amphetamines
It's appalling that they're doing it but they aren't tobacco products, they nicotine products.
A lot of the nicotine in products like these is made from tobacco. Some of it is synthetic nicotine, some is plant-derived.
I couldn’t find statistics but at least some companies have different product names for synthetic vs natural.
e.g. “VELO” is plant-derived while “VELO Plus” is synthetic.
https://nicokick.com/us/pouch-perfect/products/velo-vs-velo-plus
In my opinion this is splitting hairs. Chewing tobacco, cigarettes, cigars, etc., are tobacco products having tobacco as a main ingredient. Nicotine gum, pouches, patches, and ecigs are nicotine products as they have nicotine (synthetic or derived) but no actual tobacco. If the got the nicotine from eggplants you wouldn’t call it an eggplant product.
I wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t say someone else was wrong if they did.
Almost all of it is tobacco-derived, which is why I always found the "tobacco companies are trying to get vapes banned" idea ridiculous. They're the ones making the stuff that goes in the vapes.
I think the point of the distinction is regarding cancer. Tobacco on the gums causes mouth cancer, nicotine maybe maybe not.
And here's me, reading that tech companies are feeding their employees tabasco and wondering just what that's supposed to do.
Nicotine by itself isn't any worse than caffeine. I hate that puritanical American bulldozers right and left, call nicotine pouches and vapes tobacco products. Shut the fuck up nerds. Pop a zynn and watch some TV.
I am of your same opinion about nicotine, but I will say that the pouches are making my gum receed noticeably after about 1 year of daily use... trying to switch to gum now
I think that's my biggest fear about using them. I think I'll keep an eye out for that at well. If it starts to happen, I'll probably just quit nicotine. I can't put stuff in my lungs and I hate gum.
nicotine independently damages the endothelium (innermost lining of blood vessels) leading to stroke heart attack poor wound healing after injury or surgery etc. even without tobacco
probably why it damages gums
not worth the very small benefits
If you have time Andrew Huberman breaks it down. https://youtu.be/uXs-zPc63kM
Always with the "extract every ounce of yourself for us", never with the "take care of yourself to maximize your potential for us".
Nicotine : one of the only drugs that makes you a better slave ; therefore, one of the very few legal ones.
Yeah, I mean there were the amphetamines and opiates that they thought made people better workers too but that was just during periods where people hated reality and they realized the disassociation was worse for efficiency so now just back to nicotine.
Why can't we make our own study that says that the dopamine of watching a live hibachi chef makes us a better slave and at least get a flaming volcano of onion out of this?
The original nazis used meth, but these fash aren't quite there yet.
It works...at first.
I'm holding out for free cocaine
This guy gets it. My company almost does this already by making my Adderall script only $10
Fuck this to hell. I want tobacco to go extinct, not be more accessible.
If there was a button that just made every tobacco plant (and the backups in that one seed vault place) die, I would keep pushing it for days just to make sure it was all gone. Including existing smoking products.
Not sorry not sorry. Addicts all going cold turkey that day.
As a nicotine addict, I wouldn't advise this. Making every one of us go cold turkey in one moment will be the end of humanity. Nicotine withdrawal is no joke.
I don't understand your fury to be honest. It's unhinged. So what happened to make you feel this way?
@[email protected] @[email protected]
@[email protected]
First, I don't smoke and never had smoked (not considering the passive smoking from being close to smokers), the only "drug" I use non-frequently is alcohol (a vodka-saké beverage).
This said, your paternalistic implied thought ("drugs are bad, people shouldn't use drugs"; are their bodies yours, to begin with? Do you happen to have some kind of ownership over other's bodies? Who gave you this almighty authority, do you happen to be a Demiurgal Archon of sorts?) is missing the forest for the trees.
I'm barely knowledgeable about biology, but I know enough to remember about symbiotic relationships in nature, as well as phylogenetics. The plant responsible for tobacco wasn't some kind of lab creation, IIRC tobacco plant even predates us homininae, and this means there are certainly species biologically interacting with the tobacco plant, perhaps species reliant of tobacco plant (not necessarily because of nicotine, but because it's a plant which siphons nutrients and resources from the soil, displacing water and somehow contributing to water cycles).
The moment this Archonic hubris illustrated by your text were to render tobacco extinct, unbeknownst to you, other species would be going extinct as well, and this may include humans due to how food web is so interconnected in ways we're still trying to figure out. That's part of why we try to classify species taxonomically and phylogenetically, because this is also valuable for us to identify potential interspecies relationships. I mean, this is exactly what phylogenetics is about: study of evolutionary relationships among biological entities.
So, please, seek some phylogenetics and biology awareness before feeding paternalistic, bigoted anti-drug thoughts. Others bodies aren't yours for you to wish for control, let alone other species.
this guy is a proto-fascist, everything I don't like must be forbidden.
And then taking some sadistic pleasure in it.
What a nasty thing.
I would gladly start smoking again just to have the pleasure of blowing my smoke in to this fucker's face and watching him seethe.
Well, headache medicine sometimes includes nic.. They would probably just switch it to something worse.
Yes drugs are bad, we should all have to rawdog experiencing the planet boiling.
What an enlightened take, that's positively upvoted — no less!
Mind your own business.
Why don't they just use their job replacing AIs?
Coffee is my drug of choice and my work provides it for me. Thank you, work.
Until they have newbies trying that stuff and ending up puking and/or having headaches
just realized decaf is not an option in my office 🤔
Is coffee not good enough anymore?
Considering the dosage amounts of caffeine that seem normal to people now....
No.
Why not just skip straight to the point and save us all a decade or so. Meth on tap.
I mean, tech jobs and stimulants have always gone hand in hand. My theory is that's because the field attracts a lot of people with ADHD.
This is functionally no different than a company providing coffee.
I'm as much of a "caffeine is an addictive psychoactive drug" person as the next but nicotine is so much worse.
By itself it isn't. It's all the other bullshit in tobacco that is so much worse.
Nicotine is a poison, many or most of the cardiac issues associated with smoking are due to nicotine, not the ancillary chemicals in cigarette smoke.
That's not true.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4958544/.
Also, the dose makes the poison. Humans safely consume all kinds of things that would be harmful in large quantities.
Did you read the study? The abstract asserts that vaping is less bad than smoking cigarettes, but there’s a ton of negative cardiovascular effects they link to nicotine alone.
That's true of literally every CNS stimulant. People with heart disease aren't supposed to have caffeine either.
No, it's true. The LD50 for nicotine is only 0.8mg/kg, but for caffeine the LD50 is 192mg/kg.
The other bullshit in tobacco does make it worse than pure nicotine, but just pure nicotine is more dangerous than pure caffeine.
I mean I consume maybe 6-7 mg of nicotine, but probably less, per day by vaping. At 0.8mg/kg I would have to consume over 80 to reach LD50 and I believe that has to be in your blood at once.
My caffeine intake is around 400 mg per day. LD50 is over 20 literal grams.
Going by these numbers it does indeed sound like the nicotine is worse, but neither one is ever going to get close to the LD50. If I were to significantly increase my nicotine intake, it'd get nauseating for me pretty fast. Caffeine I could probably double without noticing a damn thing, but beyond that I think it will start affecting me too much too.
Also that's over a day, whereas I believe LD50 implies it'd have to be in your blood all at once?
The LD50 is meaningless if you don't have the standard dose for comparison.
Also, the LD50 of ingested nicotine is closer to 6.5-13mg/ml, or the equivalent of over 130 cigarettes.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3880486/
Do you work for Zyn?
No, I've just been vaping for about 15 years and have apparently read more studies about nicotine than the people downvoting.
Bullshit. Nicotine is horrible all by itself
No, it's not. Or at least it's not according to the journal articles published on the topic.
It's combusting plant matter that's horrible for you.
Man, just modafinil or adderall lol.
I've heard Meth keeps you on even longer, the Nazis knew that already with Panzerschokolade.
Yeah but there's always an Adderall shortage
for anyone just interested in reading a recent study on the effects of nicotine.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11350241/
I found this review paper interesting and I don't doubt that nicotine can have therapeutic effects but the funding source worried me.
Conflict of interest
Authors YC, XW, XZ, HT, YZ, JZ, and SZ were employed China Tobacco Anhui Industrial Co., Ltd.
The remaining authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest.
The authors declare that this study received funding from Technology Project of Anhui Zhongyan Industry Co., Ltd. The funder had the involvement in the study design, data analysis, decision to publish, and preparation of the manuscript.
Funding Statement The author(s) declare that financial support was received for the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article. This work was financially supported by the Technology Project of Anhui Zhongyan Industry Co., Ltd. (2022156), Science and Technology Projects of State Tobacco Monopoly Administration (110202201046XX-05), Startup Program of XMU and Fundamental Research Funds for the Central Universities.
Damn. That study is toasted.
Madmen!
I dunno what you mean :))
I read through it and just thought they were being generous with the fact that they were stating the positives as mostly people with depression and ADHD self medicating with an addictive substance that didnt really help as much as cause a feedback loop that felt better but more addictive...
The fact that they state the funders directly had involvement in the study... Oof.
At this point I think it's safe to say we're locked into the dystopian future and the utopic one was but a dream.
Fun fact:
The guy that coined the term Utopia, actually meant for it to act as a pun, for "no such place" or to imply it was a false dream.
Such as, people will use the mirage of a utopia to hide the very real dystopia that this path creates.
A Eutopia is an actually "good place". A thing we have not been working towards. George Orwell also called his society a Utopia as it was a false good place.
Like when they offer smoke breaks.
No reason any worker couldn't just throw em in the trash, right?
I imagine you would be fired and charged for destruction of property and then they would make you feel bad by having you apologize to your coworkers for hindering their ability to put forth more work.
I already wish them slow cancer so good job.
Amlodipine.
Is there some not-yet-specified condition of broad moral-displacement inherent to surveillists?