Also? The "we're mad about pedophiles" conspiracy crowd don't get credit when they decided to put Absolute Biggest Sex Crime Guy in charge of their movement and stay onboard when he says "I'm not releasing the evidence".
To add onto this, the Epstein case wasn't even a conspiracy theory. He got a plea deal in 2008 under the Bush Admin and a case was built against him under Bush and Obama culminating in an arrest of Epstein and Maxwell, and Maxwell's trial then sentencing from 2016 to 2018.
We also knew Trump was involved because Trump told us so on Television in 2002, and we had seen televised footage of the two attending parties together in 1992, and Epstein even mentioned it in his deposition in 2010.
The Miami Herald had published a lot of stories by the time Q came around. So all Q was was projection. Every accusation is a confession, there are no exceptions.
As someone who entered adulthood around the mid-10s, it was hard to keep track of what was real and what was bullshit between things like Anonymous, WikiLeaks, QAnon, and the Epstein files.
It was really hard to sort the nonsense from reality. Or more accurately by volume, the reality from the nonsense.
It wasn't a conspiracy theory, because it was a confirmed conspiracy. But too many people don't know the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.
Technically there are still open cases, hampered by the multiple Trump admins no doubt, but yeah the files have a lot of people saying tbey could have done much more.
Follow the bread crumb trail on a lot of these assholes and they all run through the same set of alt-right media intent on radicalizing people into hating one another and eventually killing them.
Whether its the "Haitians ate my dog" hoax or the "Hamas is running Columbia's student unions" canard or the "Comet Ping Pong is a hide out for ritual child cannibalism", the goal is to turn people against one another and justify violence against them through the police.
The apex of the modern conspiracy theory is the lie about Evil Immigrants Sneaking Across The Border to Do Crime. And the consequence of believing it is a bipartisan government support for ICE kidnappings and concentration camps.
There have been plenty of conspiracy theories that have been proven true. MK Ultra, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar. The entirety of the CIA's history has basically been the story of insane conspiracy theories proven correct.
There is evidence that Epstein and his associates used food- themed code language, including "pizza", to refer to child rape. A lot of the antisemitic conspiracy theories about Jews have turned out to be accurate reports on Zionists, who have been purposefully trying to conflate themselves with Judaism to hide under the umbrella of semitic protections.
The famous "they're turning the frogs gay!" story Alex Jones made famous was actually a true story about how a factory on the West Coast was illegally dumping dangerous chemicals into the water which impacts the hormones, and this the sex ratio, of frogs nearby.
Afaik there isn't any sort of official body governing conspiracy theories. It's hundreds of thousands of individuals trying to make sense of a world in imperfect information. They all need to be judged individually. A lot of them are just plain bigoted or mentally ill in other ways. Some people are kind of close to being right, some people are dead on. It's foolish to try to lump them all together.
And what's the point of trying to dismiss all conspiracy theorists as racist lunatics? Is the end goal to get people to stop questioning official government narratives? Fuck that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Jones was paid to do that gay frogs segment specifically to discredit the story and try to protect the offending company.
These aren't conspiracy theories. They're well documented, exhaustively researched, and heavily reported upon programs and organizations.
The conspiracy theories came about as attempts to cover up the above. The Helter Skelter motivation, which then bled into increasingly lured claims about rock music being mind control and a race war prophecy were the conspiracy theories. These claims helped cover up MK Ultra as a project and deflected state effects at manipulating civilians onto mass media and The Culture War.
Similarly, it wasn't "Big Tobacco" that was the conspiracy, but the repeated denial-ism funded by tobacco corporations which sought to conflate restrictions on smoking with some kind of police state pogrom on the working class. The same game got played with asbestos and lead paint and motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Wave after wave of reactionary media funded by libertarian-aligned business interests tried to blame the victim or mystify the source of harm.
"Big Sugar" is a complete misnomer, as the shift to corn syrup over sugar was in direct response to the Cuban Revolution and the sudden shortfall in sugar supplies following the US embargo. That, again, wasn't any kind of conspiracy. But the increasingly aggressive sales tactics of soft drink salespeople certainly created misconceptions about their benefits and hazards.
And what’s the point of trying to dismiss all conspiracy theorists as racist lunatics?
Yes, why would anyone conflate eugenics, phrenology, and other pseudo-scientific claims of racial superiority, or the increasingly apocalyptic predictions of social collapse coming from segregationists and their business allies, might feed into conspiracy media.
They're [now] well documented, exhaustively researched, and heavily reported upon programs and organizations.
Now they're conspiracy facts. But they did start as "theories" before all the proof came out. Time travel to before 1975 and mention government mind control programs however, and I am confident you'll get a different response regarding MK Ultra than you would today after what documents that weren't destroyed have been declassified. Same goes for MK Naomi, Groom Lake/Area 51, the CIA's psychic spying program out of Monroe VA, etc, before being declassified (and even after in most cases) it is "you're crazy," and then come to find out after declassification "nuh uh, I was right."
Edit: in fact now that I think of it you don't even have to go back that far. Even in the 90s when you would talk about it, only the people into it knew. Now all the casuals know because of podcasts like LPOTL and other internet sources, but before the internet was commonplace (and even after, for those who were late adopters) still there were people who didn't believe it, but then you could tell them "go look it up" and they actually may instead of "go buy this book" which is a harder sell. We really take for granted how well the internet can be and was used to disseminate information, though with all the misinformation around now I can see why people have forgotten.
no true scotsman, sure. but the line in the sand was drawn to point out specific problematic theorists. the ones claiming that we are all plugged in the matrix can continue with out being talked about here
This is what I hate about the "broken clock is right twice a day" thing. The process you use to get to a conclusion needs to be sound for it to matter. If you have a couple thousand stopped clocks showing different times, you can't claim to always know the correct time just because it's in there somewhere.
Sure, atrazine causes birth defects in frogs. If you tell me that frogs are being intentionally turned gay because the globalists are using them to test a chemical weapon that will be used to turn people gay so that they'll stop reproducing as part of a global depopulation plan, then you support a president who relaxes regulations on chemical disposal including atrazine, you don't get to wait for most people to forget all that context and claim your initial kernel of partial-truth as a victory. This is exactly the same thing, and we see it over and over and over and over.
My mother in law guessed the sex of my baby, twice. She guess both girl and boy. Then when the baby pictures arrived, she was really smug: "See, I told you! I have a feeling about these things!".
That's when I knew to never listen to another word she says.
Also, some conspiracies are always going to be right, but the details matter.
"There's a cabal of rich people who run the world!" I mean, yes. Obviously. But, the method matters here.
"Rich people make blood sacrifices in cult meetings, then replace the president with an android and the prime minister with a clone" is not the same as "rich people buy up newspapers and throw lavish fundraising dinners."
As for the main conspiracy, IMO it's not credible that everybody in Epstein's circle was a pedophile. It's not even credible that everyone in his circle knew he was one. I'm sure you don't become a billionaire without already being the kind of person who has a problem with empathy. But, Epstein's circle wasn't just billionaires. It was also intellectuals, politicians, artists, etc. Even if 99% of them were either pedophiles or perfectly OK with pedophilia (which seems unlikely) that remaining 1% could ruin his life.
What's believable is that he had an enormous circle of rich and powerful people, and that a small subset of them were in an inner circle where the child rape happened. In that case, it isn't that every rich and powerful person is part of a pedophile ring. It's that rich and powerful people were meeting and conspiring, and also some of them were pedophiles.
Having said that, I'm perfectly happy if the popular story is that everybody who was buddies with Epstein is a pedophile and should be removed from society, if not removed from the realm of the living. Those people deserve that kind of punishment, but not because they're pedophiles. But, it's too exhausting to try to convince people that someone like Bill Gates deserves to have his life ruined, even if he isn't a pedophile.
Right about some things. Wrong about others. The FBI publicizing footage that shouldn't exist in order to make themselves look good in the Guthrie case, however, should be making everyone reconsider how they use and store their electronics.
That footage came from a cloud connected camera; google's cloud.
There is no conspiracy there. If you use a Google device, they are storing all of that data even if they will not give you access to it without a court order.
The FBI is run my bumbling idiots. The delay is because they didn't know how to ask properly.
I mean Epstein was Jewish, boasted about being a Mossad agent in private, Ghislaine Maxwell is Jewish and the daughter of an Israeli spy. Top ranking Israeli officials like Ehud Barak are in the files, people like Noam Chomsky are in the files. Yeah there’s a lot of WASPs in there too, according to Epstein the only goyims he respected, but OP is being disingenuous by omitting all this.
Yeah MAGAts are retarded and imo religion is anyway not the important point to focus on but anyone can read the files so why accuse others of rewriting history and then doing it yourself?
Being white is a fully made up concept and not some biological reality so "what the Nazis considered them as" is literally just as valid as whatever idea you have about what white is. All it really comes down to how is society treats the given group.
"whiteness" as a whole tends to a category that gets smaller the more powerful racists become in government. jews are white up until american christofacists no longer need their support at which point they're no longer white
In the abridged interview with Maria Farmer, which I posted in this community yesterday, she speaks of massive Zionist elements in this. And she also says that none of the victims were Jewish, to her knowledge.
Sure, it's accusations, but I think quite important to keep in mind. Has anyone heard of any Jewish victims? And as you say, Epstein was Jewish, but he also had massive Israeli ties, as did/does Maxwell.
I could make a sourced list at some point to point to all the Zionist connections, but I think this is really well established already.
It's right to differentiate between half-truth conspiracy psyops and actual conspiracy, which has a legal definition too. But this poster oversimplified it to the point of another half-truth of mis-/disinformation.
On paper, the Wexner family’s philanthropic foundation and their retail empire, once home to Victoria’s Secret, Abercrombie & Fitch, and Bath & Body Works, were legally separate and largely had their own staff. But, in practice, as is typical of such foundations, one small family office sat over both the family’s fortune and philanthropy. Internal emails between Epstein, Indyke, and Wexner’s staff show Epstein as the effective boss of the family office, and the real gatekeeper of the Wexners’ money.
Interestingly, Barak was relying on Epstein’s support rather than vice versa, despite the fact that Barak was a very powerful figure in the Israeli security establishment. And so, these emails, in addition to House disclosures, which also point to the same information, show that this intelligence agent, who was a longtime military intelligence agent in Israel, who was Barak’s chief aide for many years, lived at Epstein’s house for significant stretches of time, weeks at a time, between this period of 2013 to 2015.
The Israeli government installed security equipment and controlled access to a Manhattan apartment building managed by convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, according to a set of emails recently released by the Department of Justice. The equipment was installed starting in early 2016 at 301 E. 66th Street—the residence where former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak frequently stayed for stretches at a time.
Through Epstein’s COUQ Foundation, he provided Friends of the Israeli Defence Forces (FIDF) and the Jewish National Fund (JNF) with funds on at least one occasion, when he gifted $25,000 to the FIDF and $15,000 to the JNF in 2006.
According to the FIDF’s website, the organisation funds programmes for Israeli soldiers. Through its website, the organisation invites donors to adopt a brigade or battalion, such as the 97th Netzah Yehuda Battalion, which has been widely accused of killing unarmed civilians, killing detainees, torture, and mistreatment.
[Robert] Maxwell poured money into the Israeli economy and died in mysterious circumstances after he was said to have fallen from his yacht in 1991, after embezzling millions from his company’s pension fund.
Epstein himself appeared to have suspected that the Israeli Mossad intelligence agency had a role in Maxwell’s death. An email Epstein sent in 2018 had the subject line “he was passed away”, referring to Maxwell.
In the message, Epstein claimed that Maxwell had previously threatened Israel’s intelligence service, writing that “unless they [the Mossad] gave him £400 million to save his [Maxwell’s] crumbling empire, he would expose all he had done for them”.
An FBI memo produced by the bureau’s Los Angeles field office in October 2020 reported that one of its sources had come to believe Epstein “was a co-opted Mossad agent”.
According to the document, the disgraced financier was described as having been “trained as a spy” for Israel’s intelligence service.
The source also claimed Epstein maintained links to US and allied intelligence circles through his longtime lawyer Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard University law professor whose network, it said, included “many students from wealthy families”. Among those cited were Jared Kushner, US President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and envoy, and his brother, Josh Kushner, both described in the memo as former students.
The Epstein files uncovered a conspiracy of rich, straight, white right-wing Christian men
They did not, or only very partially so. This is misleading/downplaying the Zionist elements, for one, as well as the diverse background of various characters.
The poster shuts down the Jewish part of the conspiracy and then spins it as the quoted thing, leaving out any mention of those elements.
Edit: fixed quote
Edit2: to avoid making another comment, I'll write another issue with the post here. I'm sorry for the fragmented way of posting. I'll take it as a learning experience to take my time and write a single comprehensive comment for things like this in the future.
it was just dudes emailing each other in plaintext asking for directions to the Sex Trafficking Island
That's not the criminal conspiracy. That's just the collected and partly published emails of Epstein, which the DoJ collected.
It's also inaccurate because the trafficking is at least alleged by multiple victims to have taken place at Mar-a-Lago and other locations. (Virginia Giuffre in her book nobody's girl, as one example).
By the time that Q thing got started, the Miami Herald had long been publishing details of Epstein, so all they did was take the villains and project their behavior onto the opponents of rw extremism, figuring it would never catch up to them.
So no, they don't deserve any credit. They just misdirected the villainy. That's negative credit.
There were 100% conspiracy theorists who said it were powerful/rich white people. Why do you think stuff like X-Files was so popular in the 90s. People suspected clubs like that trying to rig everything.
Yes, some of them said it would be the jews or whatever, but that's only a part of the many, wild speculations and could have been racism.
But you don't owe any of them an apology, because they knew it was hard to prove and just theories/suspicions at this point.
well, the OP says "conspiracy theorists" in the image and the title. i didn't assume it was just about Qs, but could be they meant just them and were intenionally or unintentionally confusing.
They always like to lump all conspiracies together and discount the lot of them by associating them all with the crazy ones. JFK case and point, dumbass theories are used to discount all the real conspiracies that the fbi and cia and other elements of the establishment were heavily involved in the assassination and it's cover up.
Personally, I think the MAGA conspiracy theorists were deliberately engineered by the elite to create anti-LGBTQ+ theories. By projecting a myriad of false conspiracy theories, it helps discredit the actual conspiracy.
Jeffrey Epstein suggested that Moot add /pol/ to 4chan. /pol/ is literally where Qanon started. All of the “Wayfair is selling children” and “there is a video of Hillary Clinton killing a child for their ‘adenochrome’” conspiracies started there.
/pol/ is also where the “MAPS/minor attracted person” bullshit started, as an attempt to discredit LGBT people.
Sure, and that's clear from the emails. That said, I heard from someone familiar with the situation, that it was well known to (some) site members that they were going to add it for some time before that.
The timing is a going indication of causation, but it's no proof, especially when there's a plausible alternative.
I can highly reccommend the current Behind The Bastards series on the files. I had no idea all the places Epstein poisoned with his touch. Some examples: Bitcoin and fucking Micro-Transactions.
But yeah I do feel bad for regular hard working Jewish people because they keep claiming they represent all Jewish people. People are getting more and more angry and the gaslighting isn’t working anymore but I’m continually shocked how many people don’t understand that Epstein and Ghisline worked for Mossad. They absolutely gave Russia a back channel to the US and Israel but the entire operation was for Mossad and Israel’s benefit
yes, there's a heavy connection between the zionists that run israel. whose interest happen to align heavily with the christo-facists and general rich bastards of the USA (who largely just want israel to act as a destabilizer for the ME, so they don't unify into another great power).
the interesting bit is Israel really doesn't have that much loyalty to the USA, as evidenced by pretty nuch any presser they do in hebrew (because most of their US-based zionists/supporters only speak english).
Yes that is the end goal. It’s why there has been no discussion of the fact that Trump stole the 2024 election. The previous crybaby conspiracy fuckery immunized the public discourse to prevent any contemplation of stolen elections.
We do need to talk about Epsteins very real ties to Israel though, too and the fact Isreal is engaging in very serious and very real human rights violations.
Isreal is very much so at the heart and we can't forget that either but as a result I DO feel bad for normal Jewish people who will be pushed into insane conspiracy theories and they did nothing wrong.
Ive been seeing shit about how the unibomber was right all along. And we should have listened.
He murdered a ton of innocent people.
He was bat shit crazy.
Just cause some stuff was kinda almost true doesn't mean anything.
Nostradamus also had some predictions that weren't too far off. But only because they were vague (barnum effect) and also he had a lot more that were false.
So he murdered 2 innocent people; I think it's arguable whether a person complicit in crimes against the environment and humanity can be framed as innocent.
He injured another 23 people, one of whom was in the Epstein emails. He wasn't actually a particularly lethal bomber, he just really scared people because no one really knew why they were being targeted, which made it feel like anyone could be the next target.
I wouldn't endorse his actions or even his targets, but it wasn't just that he said "some stuff that was kinda almost true". He targeted evil people in positions of power... sometimes. Usually he targeted people who were totally innocent, and worse, he knew that's what he was doing (in most cases).
Oh yeah, absolutely. And if he bombed the people who experimented on him, I'd say, "Fuck yeah, you go Ted." But that's unfortunately not what he did, or at least, not in most cases.
I'm not sure, but his ethnic lineage isn't connected to why he's evil any more than European lineage is why wealthy white Americans are evil.
But, just like European heritage is perverted into white supremacy, he perverted his heritage (real or imagined, idk) into Jewish supremacy. This was demonstrated by the emails suggesting that the more Jewish someone is, the smarter they are, which is presumably why they had DNA tests on the island. (Which is also a bit odd because Zionists are generally very much anti-DNA testing. But maybe he was more into the basic supremacy aspect than the actual Zionist dogma.)
What is apart from it being rich white right-wing men? What is he saying here? Do they mean "a part", which completely changes the meaning of the sentence?
Where does this leave the victims? Are they racist antisemitic pedophiles who cannot be trusted or did they spontaneously come into existence somehow? Not sure where they fit into this coping mechanism.
They were talking about a secret conspiracy of gay trans Jewish lizard people
Not a good sign when you want to appeal to nuances and yet don't mind clearly creating lambastic non-realistic caricatures which you expect people to tacitly agree illustrates all conspiracy theorists. This argument is only pandering to an audience that's just looking for self-acknowledgement.
Sort of suspicious that something comes up that could serve to bridge the gap between different ends of the population, and arguments like this start to get passed around to continue to keep people divided against themselves over the actual pedophile ironically using the same flaws in logic they claim to criticize.
Just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it wasn't a valuable contribution on our journey to a truth.
The general accusation to conspiracy theorists is that it's all wrong and all super ridiculously obviously wrong, like flat earth. A "medium severe" conspiracy theory like "it's rich people who are kidnapping and raping kids" barely gets attention.
It's also making the mistake of treating "conspiracy theorists" as a monolith, which they're not.
Finally:
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying "Epstein didn't kill himself" or "Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation", is a conspiracy theorist.
Which probably means you too.
What it comes down to is this: the next time you hear something ridiculous, but evil about the government, do you dismiss it, or do you research it? Because we know who will tell you to "move along" and there is "nothing to see".
Conspiracy theories are generally very big, very serious accusations being made confidently without serious evidence.
The prevalence of conspiracy theories does indeed make it harder for people who want to stay grounded in reality to accept criticism of the powerful – this is one of the harms of conspiracy theories. It makes it harder for genuine serious criticism to be taken seriously – this is why the Putin regime allows conspiracy theorists, but persecutes serious regime critics.
It’s also making the mistake of treating “conspiracy theorists” as a monolith, which they’re not.
It pretty much was. The qanon nonsense functioned as an umbrella conspiracy theory, which pretty much coopted all other conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists.
If you can see what a cult/psyop can do to influence people's beliefs (Q), certainly you can then see that a lot of conspiracy spaces are manipulated by bots and other people in bad faith doing the same thing.
Not every conspiracy theorist forms beliefs - they could merely be hypothesizing/speculating. Not every conspiracy theorist believes in everything posted in these spaces, and not every conspiracy theorist follows Q and other cults like it.
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying "Epstein didn't kill himself" or "Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation", is a conspiracy theorist.
What? No just because something is not yet verified by court does not mean that you are a conspiracy theoriest for believing it. If there is sufficent evidence it is okay to believe in something. There is sufficent evidence Trump is involved in the whole thing. Epstein didn't kill himself is a bit more tricky because there are different theories, he got killed is not all impropable especially with how the whole thing was handled so for me it hardly qualifies as a conspiracy theory in the collequial sense. He fleed, there was a body double and he now lives carefree somewhere? Not impossible but currently not enough evidence so i would declare it a conspiracy theory.
Spewing falsehoods, inciting hate against groups of people and clinging to a story that has been disproven for years is no worthwhile contribution. They have not contributed anything to either revealing the wrongdoing or solving anything about the case. If anything they have voted into power the most active suppressant to either of those two and it does not seem too far fetched that this is a closed feedback loop, i.e. the original "Q" falsehoods came from that very circle that is now both accused and in power or blackmailing those in power.
What it comes down to is this: the next time you hear something ridiculous, but evil about the government, do you dismiss it, or do you research it?
This is probably your best point. The more of these unhinged and wrong theories there are, the less likely I'm going to have a grain of belief the next time I'm going to hear something like it. It only hurts the truth. Nothing else.
If anything they have voted into power the most active suppressant to either of those two and it does not seem too far fetched that this is a closed feedback loop, i.e. the original "Q" falsehoods came from that very circle that is now both accused and in power or blackmailing those in power.
the establishment dems were more than willing to let all this stay hidden, under 2 terms of obama and 1 with biden. giving maxwell and epstein cushy pleadeals in return for not turning on anyonw else. so clearly voting in trump a 2nd time was the right move, far as actually bringing this stuff to light.
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying "Epstein didn't kill himself" or "Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation", is a conspiracy theorist.
Courts determine criminal liability withing the justice system. They do not determine truth itself. When properly designed and used, the legal system should trend towards truth, but actual truth is a separate thing entirely. The unifying aspect of conspiracy theorists is completely naive epistemology. You guys are actually doing epistemology but you just refuse to actually look at the thousands of years of work that's been done in the field across civilizations all over the world.
Yea no fuck off. Conspiracy theorists were right. They aren't racists or antisemitic, that was the loud minority that others chose to use against us all so they could dismiss our warnings. Seriously sit the fuck down bitch ass dogs. I get it, it makes you feel better to be able to dismiss the people that believed survivors because you cannot bare the fact that you ignored them for so long. But I say fuck you, you don't get to feel better about this.
Newly released Epstein emails offer clues to meetings with the founder of 4chan, the site known as a hub for far-right propaganda and QAnon conspiracy theories.
Off and on for months, Mr. Bannon, a leader in the MAGA movement and a former top aide to President Trump, had been advising Mr. Epstein on how to handle resurrected allegations that he was a serial pedophile. Mr. Bannon recommended which lawyers to hire — his own — when to lie low and when he should jump on an opening to push his narrative. He scheduled what the two men called “media training.”
By crushing the left, and abandoning popular Corbyn policies that Starmer had himself signed up to - such as nationalising utilities, abolishing student tuition fees, ending NHS outsourcing and opposing illegal wars - the clique around Starmer broke the promise of change that voters expected.
Backing Israel’s genocide was only the most extreme example.
The billionaire owner of Tesla and SpaceX and Donald Trump’s “first buddy” has been trying to justify cuts to programs like social security, arguing that the fraud has cost the government up to $200bn.
Time and again, conspiracy theories are used to undermine serious journalistic inquiries, distract from ongoing scandals, silence outsider critics, destroy progressive socio-economic reforms, and perpetuate crimes against humanity.
Not only were the conspiracy theorists - from QAnon and Bannon to Mandelson and McSweeney to Theil and Musk - instrumental in covering up the truth of the Epstein Scandal, they were routinely complicit in the actual sexual abuse.
Follow any one of these conspiracy rabbit holes and at the end of it you'll inevitably find some media savvy billionaire - a Rupert Murdoch or Ross Perot or Charlies Koch or Robert Mercer - propping the whole bag of bullshit up so they can hustle another Reagan or Bush or Trump over the line and loot your back pockets while you're not looking.
That's assuming the conspiracy isn't straight up manufactured by the IDF to help justify another round of drone strikes in Gaza.
Follow any one of these conspiracy rabbit holes and at the end of it you'll inevitably find some media savvy billionaire - a Rupert Murdoch or Ross Perot or Charlies Koch or Robert Mercer - propping the whole bag of bullshit up so they can hustle another Reagan or Bush or Trump over the line and loot your back pockets while you're not looking.
That's assuming the conspiracy isn't straight up manufactured by the IDF to help justify another round of drone strikes in Gaza.
So, you're theorizing that a conspiracy of rich people and jews will conspire to push their agendas and genocide, which means conspiracy theories are fake?
Got some news for ya, you are one, just not one of the David Icke ones. Turns out that like LITERALLY every other group, "conspiracy theorists," (or, "those who believe we aren't being told the full truth about X because of the hidden agenda of Y powerful people") are also not a monolith, some are racist and some are not. Some racists are conspiracy theorists, and some are not. Some prefer coke while others prefer pepsi, point is there's variations.
Conspiracy, when broken down into it's root words, means to "breathe (-spiro) together (con-)." It doesn't have to be fake, it really just has to be people working together to achieve a goal typically defined as "illegal," though tbh I'd argue that as well, because then all it would need to not be a conspiracy is "the island said it was legal to fuck the kids." By definition however, that means that any criminal organization is a conspiracy, bloods, crips, cartels, the mob, and a gang of powerful pedos are all conspirators within their groups.
Now, as for conspiracy theories (a term invented by COINTELPRO to discredit those questioning the official narrative surrounding the death of JFK), these circles were much less racist before ~2015ish (still there, but less, more anti-semetic but also some of that can be explained by people simply saying "jews" when "zionists" would be more specific as I did above for comedic affect), what if a powerful group of people pushed racist agendas into the space to discredit those that are on the right track? I mean, with Epstein involved in /pol/, it's entirely possible... What if Alex Jones was a plant to accomplish just that? He was one of the major ones responsible for the shift into direct racism that made most of the non-racist people who are skeptical of the world's leaders leave boards like /x/ and stop talking about it, because the second you do someone like you says "well you're racist because Alex also doesn't believe everything he's told, and he's racist, so you must be racist too."
You are doing exactly what I said... 4chan is just a place for loud idiots you are the one choosing to give them merit so you can dismiss me. Fuck off and feel bad for dismissing the victims for all these years take some responsibility and stop blaming others.
Just think... Why did he want to infiltrate 4chan? Was it to invent conspiracies against him, or to manipulate the conspiracies so they could be dismissed...? Actually think rather than trying to come up with reasons to not take responsibility for not believing survivors sooner. You know that big ass group of women we see on stage these days have been saying what they have been saying for years right? Why haven't you heard of them before all this? THINK!
The files show extensive ties to Israeli, Saudi Arabi, and UAE elites as well. It's as straight-cut on class boundries as possible
Also? The "we're mad about pedophiles" conspiracy crowd don't get credit when they decided to put Absolute Biggest Sex Crime Guy in charge of their movement and stay onboard when he says "I'm not releasing the evidence".
To add onto this, the Epstein case wasn't even a conspiracy theory. He got a plea deal in 2008 under the Bush Admin and a case was built against him under Bush and Obama culminating in an arrest of Epstein and Maxwell, and Maxwell's trial then sentencing from 2016 to 2018.
We also knew Trump was involved because Trump told us so on Television in 2002, and we had seen televised footage of the two attending parties together in 1992, and Epstein even mentioned it in his deposition in 2010.
The Miami Herald had published a lot of stories by the time Q came around. So all Q was was projection. Every accusation is a confession, there are no exceptions.
As someone who entered adulthood around the mid-10s, it was hard to keep track of what was real and what was bullshit between things like Anonymous, WikiLeaks, QAnon, and the Epstein files.
It was really hard to sort the nonsense from reality. Or more accurately by volume, the reality from the nonsense.
There was conspiring, so it was a conspiracy.
It wasn't a conspiracy theory, because it was a confirmed conspiracy. But too many people don't know the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.
Yeah I figured the context made it clear that we were speaking of theories.
You said it "wasn't even a conspiracy" when what you meant was "it wasn't even a theory."
No, the context doesn't make it so clear that you can say the opposite of what you mean and expect no one to correct you.
I'll make the edit if it makes you feel better
I think you edited it to make yourself feel better
they were clearly going to try and just limit punishment to maxwell/epstein though
Technically there are still open cases, hampered by the multiple Trump admins no doubt, but yeah the files have a lot of people saying tbey could have done much more.
Lumping every single conspiracy theorist together as if they had a unified belief system is silly.
Follow the bread crumb trail on a lot of these assholes and they all run through the same set of alt-right media intent on radicalizing people into hating one another and eventually killing them.
Whether its the "Haitians ate my dog" hoax or the "Hamas is running Columbia's student unions" canard or the "Comet Ping Pong is a hide out for ritual child cannibalism", the goal is to turn people against one another and justify violence against them through the police.
The apex of the modern conspiracy theory is the lie about Evil Immigrants Sneaking Across The Border to Do Crime. And the consequence of believing it is a bipartisan government support for ICE kidnappings and concentration camps.
There have been plenty of conspiracy theories that have been proven true. MK Ultra, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar. The entirety of the CIA's history has basically been the story of insane conspiracy theories proven correct.
There is evidence that Epstein and his associates used food- themed code language, including "pizza", to refer to child rape. A lot of the antisemitic conspiracy theories about Jews have turned out to be accurate reports on Zionists, who have been purposefully trying to conflate themselves with Judaism to hide under the umbrella of semitic protections.
The famous "they're turning the frogs gay!" story Alex Jones made famous was actually a true story about how a factory on the West Coast was illegally dumping dangerous chemicals into the water which impacts the hormones, and this the sex ratio, of frogs nearby.
Afaik there isn't any sort of official body governing conspiracy theories. It's hundreds of thousands of individuals trying to make sense of a world in imperfect information. They all need to be judged individually. A lot of them are just plain bigoted or mentally ill in other ways. Some people are kind of close to being right, some people are dead on. It's foolish to try to lump them all together.
And what's the point of trying to dismiss all conspiracy theorists as racist lunatics? Is the end goal to get people to stop questioning official government narratives? Fuck that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Jones was paid to do that gay frogs segment specifically to discredit the story and try to protect the offending company.
These aren't conspiracy theories. They're well documented, exhaustively researched, and heavily reported upon programs and organizations.
The conspiracy theories came about as attempts to cover up the above. The Helter Skelter motivation, which then bled into increasingly lured claims about rock music being mind control and a race war prophecy were the conspiracy theories. These claims helped cover up MK Ultra as a project and deflected state effects at manipulating civilians onto mass media and The Culture War.
Similarly, it wasn't "Big Tobacco" that was the conspiracy, but the repeated denial-ism funded by tobacco corporations which sought to conflate restrictions on smoking with some kind of police state pogrom on the working class. The same game got played with asbestos and lead paint and motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Wave after wave of reactionary media funded by libertarian-aligned business interests tried to blame the victim or mystify the source of harm.
"Big Sugar" is a complete misnomer, as the shift to corn syrup over sugar was in direct response to the Cuban Revolution and the sudden shortfall in sugar supplies following the US embargo. That, again, wasn't any kind of conspiracy. But the increasingly aggressive sales tactics of soft drink salespeople certainly created misconceptions about their benefits and hazards.
Yes, why would anyone conflate eugenics, phrenology, and other pseudo-scientific claims of racial superiority, or the increasingly apocalyptic predictions of social collapse coming from segregationists and their business allies, might feed into conspiracy media.
Anymore because
Now they're conspiracy facts. But they did start as "theories" before all the proof came out. Time travel to before 1975 and mention government mind control programs however, and I am confident you'll get a different response regarding MK Ultra than you would today after what documents that weren't destroyed have been declassified. Same goes for MK Naomi, Groom Lake/Area 51, the CIA's psychic spying program out of Monroe VA, etc, before being declassified (and even after in most cases) it is "you're crazy," and then come to find out after declassification "nuh uh, I was right."
Edit: in fact now that I think of it you don't even have to go back that far. Even in the 90s when you would talk about it, only the people into it knew. Now all the casuals know because of podcasts like LPOTL and other internet sources, but before the internet was commonplace (and even after, for those who were late adopters) still there were people who didn't believe it, but then you could tell them "go look it up" and they actually may instead of "go buy this book" which is a harder sell. We really take for granted how well the internet can be and was used to disseminate information, though with all the misinformation around now I can see why people have forgotten.
“Not all conspiracy theorists”
no true scotsman, sure. but the line in the sand was drawn to point out specific problematic theorists. the ones claiming that we are all plugged in the matrix can continue with out being talked about here
This is what I hate about the "broken clock is right twice a day" thing. The process you use to get to a conclusion needs to be sound for it to matter. If you have a couple thousand stopped clocks showing different times, you can't claim to always know the correct time just because it's in there somewhere.
Sure, atrazine causes birth defects in frogs. If you tell me that frogs are being intentionally turned gay because the globalists are using them to test a chemical weapon that will be used to turn people gay so that they'll stop reproducing as part of a global depopulation plan, then you support a president who relaxes regulations on chemical disposal including atrazine, you don't get to wait for most people to forget all that context and claim your initial kernel of partial-truth as a victory. This is exactly the same thing, and we see it over and over and over and over.
My mother in law guessed the sex of my baby, twice. She guess both girl and boy. Then when the baby pictures arrived, she was really smug: "See, I told you! I have a feeling about these things!".
That's when I knew to never listen to another word she says.
It's a 1 in 4 chance of guessing both right. With odds like those, she should be playing the lottery.
She's playing both sides to come out on top, it's clever!
Not when it's blatantly obvious.
Also, some conspiracies are always going to be right, but the details matter.
"There's a cabal of rich people who run the world!" I mean, yes. Obviously. But, the method matters here.
"Rich people make blood sacrifices in cult meetings, then replace the president with an android and the prime minister with a clone" is not the same as "rich people buy up newspapers and throw lavish fundraising dinners."
As for the main conspiracy, IMO it's not credible that everybody in Epstein's circle was a pedophile. It's not even credible that everyone in his circle knew he was one. I'm sure you don't become a billionaire without already being the kind of person who has a problem with empathy. But, Epstein's circle wasn't just billionaires. It was also intellectuals, politicians, artists, etc. Even if 99% of them were either pedophiles or perfectly OK with pedophilia (which seems unlikely) that remaining 1% could ruin his life.
What's believable is that he had an enormous circle of rich and powerful people, and that a small subset of them were in an inner circle where the child rape happened. In that case, it isn't that every rich and powerful person is part of a pedophile ring. It's that rich and powerful people were meeting and conspiring, and also some of them were pedophiles.
Having said that, I'm perfectly happy if the popular story is that everybody who was buddies with Epstein is a pedophile and should be removed from society, if not removed from the realm of the living. Those people deserve that kind of punishment, but not because they're pedophiles. But, it's too exhausting to try to convince people that someone like Bill Gates deserves to have his life ruined, even if he isn't a pedophile.
It's worth reminding that the 4chan founder is in the Epstein files discussing the launch of conspiracy theories to manipulate the masses.
Right after the discussion, the 4chan "political" channel is created, filled with conspiracy theories, and will lead to QAnon.
The pizzagate was a most likely a planned diversion.
I think pizzagate was a broken clock being right. Podestas email evidence was not compelling but the pushback against the theory was disproportionate.
The CT's were as they always were.
Right about some things. Wrong about others. The FBI publicizing footage that shouldn't exist in order to make themselves look good in the Guthrie case, however, should be making everyone reconsider how they use and store their electronics.
That footage came from a cloud connected camera; google's cloud.
There is no conspiracy there. If you use a Google device, they are storing all of that data even if they will not give you access to it without a court order.
The FBI is run my bumbling idiots. The delay is because they didn't know how to ask properly.
Not too sure these guys are very straight. Sex isn’t even the key driver. It’s to humiliate others, to make others suffer for your pleasure.
It looks like Paraphilic disorder more than anything else I’ve seen.
Also Epstein was Jewish.
It’s far more complicated than a simple 4 paragraph twitter take I think.
Whiteness and being Jewish have a complicated relationship but for the last few decades at least, someone can be both.
I mean Epstein was Jewish, boasted about being a Mossad agent in private, Ghislaine Maxwell is Jewish and the daughter of an Israeli spy. Top ranking Israeli officials like Ehud Barak are in the files, people like Noam Chomsky are in the files. Yeah there’s a lot of WASPs in there too, according to Epstein the only goyims he respected, but OP is being disingenuous by omitting all this.
Yeah MAGAts are retarded and imo religion is anyway not the important point to focus on but anyone can read the files so why accuse others of rewriting history and then doing it yourself?
Post in OP says "conspiracy of...Christian men" which certainly does NOT describe Epstein, the person at the epicentre of all this
It also says "rich white right-wing men", which does, and it's also true that most of the people involved in the cover-up purport to be Christians.
Why couldn't someone be a white jew before?? Of course they could. Is this some usa centric thing?
They weren't considered white in early 20th century Europe either... There was a whole thing about it...
German Jews weren't white? Of course they were, and I don't really care for "what the nazis (or other racist group) considered them as".
Being white is a fully made up concept and not some biological reality so "what the Nazis considered them as" is literally just as valid as whatever idea you have about what white is. All it really comes down to how is society treats the given group.
That was the most stupid thing I have heard in a long time.
It's probably some racist conspiracy crap if you dig into it so you're blocked lol
"whiteness" as a whole tends to a category that gets smaller the more powerful racists become in government. jews are white up until american christofacists no longer need their support at which point they're no longer white
In the abridged interview with Maria Farmer, which I posted in this community yesterday, she speaks of massive Zionist elements in this. And she also says that none of the victims were Jewish, to her knowledge.
Sure, it's accusations, but I think quite important to keep in mind. Has anyone heard of any Jewish victims? And as you say, Epstein was Jewish, but he also had massive Israeli ties, as did/does Maxwell.
I could make a sourced list at some point to point to all the Zionist connections, but I think this is really well established already.
It's right to differentiate between half-truth conspiracy psyops and actual conspiracy, which has a legal definition too. But this poster oversimplified it to the point of another half-truth of mis-/disinformation.
Some stuff on the Israeli & Zionist ties of the innermost parts of the network.
Epstein ran Leslie Wexner's Pro-Israel Philanthropy Machine
quote source
Epstein supporting Israeli PM
quote source
quote source
Funding of Zionist groups
quoted source
On Maxwell
quoted source
Unverified Zionist ties
quoted source
So, sorry, "rich, straight, white right-wing Christian men" is just misinformation/disinformation.
Plenty of Christian men in there: Trump, Bannon, Musk
I don’t associate any of those people with performative Christianity in any way.
Trump is Christian only part time since he got into politics; I haven’t heard that musk is religious even in name. Don’t know about Bannon.
idk, for the next decade every jesus painted in statesia is going to have krasnov's bloated face on it. that's a thought to make you gag.
What does your personal opinion matter? And who are you deem someone a christian or not?
I'm not arguing that.
They did not, or only very partially so. This is misleading/downplaying the Zionist elements, for one, as well as the diverse background of various characters.
The poster shuts down the Jewish part of the conspiracy and then spins it as the quoted thing, leaving out any mention of those elements.
Edit: fixed quote
Edit2: to avoid making another comment, I'll write another issue with the post here. I'm sorry for the fragmented way of posting. I'll take it as a learning experience to take my time and write a single comprehensive comment for things like this in the future.
That's not the criminal conspiracy. That's just the collected and partly published emails of Epstein, which the DoJ collected.
It's also inaccurate because the trafficking is at least alleged by multiple victims to have taken place at Mar-a-Lago and other locations. (Virginia Giuffre in her book nobody's girl, as one example).
They said people were harvesting adrenochrome like fucking vampires or something.
By the time that Q thing got started, the Miami Herald had long been publishing details of Epstein, so all they did was take the villains and project their behavior onto the opponents of rw extremism, figuring it would never catch up to them.
So no, they don't deserve any credit. They just misdirected the villainy. That's negative credit.
With the files related to 4chan you can assume that misdirection was calculated
There were 100% conspiracy theorists who said it were powerful/rich white people. Why do you think stuff like X-Files was so popular in the 90s. People suspected clubs like that trying to rig everything.
Yes, some of them said it would be the jews or whatever, but that's only a part of the many, wild speculations and could have been racism.
But you don't owe any of them an apology, because they knew it was hard to prove and just theories/suspicions at this point.
You are lumping in every conspiracy theorist in with the Q people here.
well, the OP says "conspiracy theorists" in the image and the title. i didn't assume it was just about Qs, but could be they meant just them and were intenionally or unintentionally confusing.
They always like to lump all conspiracies together and discount the lot of them by associating them all with the crazy ones. JFK case and point, dumbass theories are used to discount all the real conspiracies that the fbi and cia and other elements of the establishment were heavily involved in the assassination and it's cover up.
Personally, I think the MAGA conspiracy theorists were deliberately engineered by the elite to create anti-LGBTQ+ theories. By projecting a myriad of false conspiracy theories, it helps discredit the actual conspiracy.
Jeffrey Epstein suggested that Moot add /pol/ to 4chan. /pol/ is literally where Qanon started. All of the “Wayfair is selling children” and “there is a video of Hillary Clinton killing a child for their ‘adenochrome’” conspiracies started there.
/pol/ is also where the “MAPS/minor attracted person” bullshit started, as an attempt to discredit LGBT people.
Are you sure? Seems like /pol/ was planned before they met. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
He started it the day after they met. Behind the Bastards just did a series on it.
Sure, and that's clear from the emails. That said, I heard from someone familiar with the situation, that it was well known to (some) site members that they were going to add it for some time before that.
The timing is a going indication of causation, but it's no proof, especially when there's a plausible alternative.
I can highly reccommend the current Behind The Bastards series on the files. I had no idea all the places Epstein poisoned with his touch. Some examples: Bitcoin and fucking Micro-Transactions.
Not sure the guy who sucked Bubba is straight
No hate to regular everyday Jewish people much respect but Israel and the Zionists are a real problem and threat to the world.
Yes. Sadly. I feel genuinely bad for Jewish people. Zionist's are like the Taliban or West Borough Baptist Church. Same flavor of extremist.
Worse because they’ve infiltrated our government’s.
More international, yes. Which makes them very concerning.
But yeah I do feel bad for regular hard working Jewish people because they keep claiming they represent all Jewish people. People are getting more and more angry and the gaslighting isn’t working anymore but I’m continually shocked how many people don’t understand that Epstein and Ghisline worked for Mossad. They absolutely gave Russia a back channel to the US and Israel but the entire operation was for Mossad and Israel’s benefit
The conspiracy invents stupid theories to discredit the real ones duh.
i call this the Ur-Conspiracy
Wasn't Epstein a Mossad asset? So Jews were involved.
yes, there's a heavy connection between the zionists that run israel. whose interest happen to align heavily with the christo-facists and general rich bastards of the USA (who largely just want israel to act as a destabilizer for the ME, so they don't unify into another great power).
the interesting bit is Israel really doesn't have that much loyalty to the USA, as evidenced by pretty nuch any presser they do in hebrew (because most of their US-based zionists/supporters only speak english).
What do you folks think about requesting to delete this for the amount of mis-/disinformation?
(I am not a mod, I just wanna know what others think)
Yes that is the end goal. It’s why there has been no discussion of the fact that Trump stole the 2024 election. The previous crybaby conspiracy fuckery immunized the public discourse to prevent any contemplation of stolen elections.
We do need to talk about Epsteins very real ties to Israel though, too and the fact Isreal is engaging in very serious and very real human rights violations.
Isreal is very much so at the heart and we can't forget that either but as a result I DO feel bad for normal Jewish people who will be pushed into insane conspiracy theories and they did nothing wrong.
Reference on Epsteins Isreal ties: https://youtu.be/j1AoPlJgEBQ
While we're at it, it's probably also worth mentioning that the Zionist entity's ties to pedophilia go way beyond just Epstein.
But then, what else would you expect from a fake country whose soldiers rioted for the right to rape their prisoners?
Ive been seeing shit about how the unibomber was right all along. And we should have listened.
He murdered a ton of innocent people.
He was bat shit crazy.
Just cause some stuff was kinda almost true doesn't mean anything.
Nostradamus also had some predictions that weren't too far off. But only because they were vague (barnum effect) and also he had a lot more that were false.
He killed 3 people. The first was an innocent grad student. The second worked for a major corporation and was killed because he "helped Exxon clean up its public image after the Exxon Valdez incident [in 1989]." The third worked for the California Forestry Association and was not the intended target.
So he murdered 2 innocent people; I think it's arguable whether a person complicit in crimes against the environment and humanity can be framed as innocent.
He injured another 23 people, one of whom was in the Epstein emails. He wasn't actually a particularly lethal bomber, he just really scared people because no one really knew why they were being targeted, which made it feel like anyone could be the next target.
I wouldn't endorse his actions or even his targets, but it wasn't just that he said "some stuff that was kinda almost true". He targeted evil people in positions of power... sometimes. Usually he targeted people who were totally innocent, and worse, he knew that's what he was doing (in most cases).
Interestingly enough, he was a subject of what was a conspiracy that was eventually proven true; MKultra
Oh yeah, absolutely. And if he bombed the people who experimented on him, I'd say, "Fuck yeah, you go Ted." But that's unfortunately not what he did, or at least, not in most cases.
No, they're not.
Conspiracies abound and are proven right with regularity
They are also proven wrong with regularity.
There are thousands of conspiracies around the world at any one time. Some conspiracy theorists are wrong, and some are right.
To declare otherwise is stupid, read a book you fucking moron
Ah, yes, another day in The System Is Working Exactly As Intended timeline (v42.66)
Wheee.
Isn't "Epstein" a jewish surname?
I'm not sure, but his ethnic lineage isn't connected to why he's evil any more than European lineage is why wealthy white Americans are evil.
But, just like European heritage is perverted into white supremacy, he perverted his heritage (real or imagined, idk) into Jewish supremacy. This was demonstrated by the emails suggesting that the more Jewish someone is, the smarter they are, which is presumably why they had DNA tests on the island. (Which is also a bit odd because Zionists are generally very much anti-DNA testing. But maybe he was more into the basic supremacy aspect than the actual Zionist dogma.)
Im sending this to my sister..
The conspiracy theorists are wrong of course, buy let's not pretend Epstein wasn't an Israeli asset.
What is apart from it being rich white right-wing men? What is he saying here? Do they mean "a part", which completely changes the meaning of the sentence?
Where does this leave the victims? Are they racist antisemitic pedophiles who cannot be trusted or did they spontaneously come into existence somehow? Not sure where they fit into this coping mechanism.
Who is this and why should I care?
Not a good sign when you want to appeal to nuances and yet don't mind clearly creating lambastic non-realistic caricatures which you expect people to tacitly agree illustrates all conspiracy theorists. This argument is only pandering to an audience that's just looking for self-acknowledgement.
Agreed this entire post is super inflammatory
Sort of suspicious that something comes up that could serve to bridge the gap between different ends of the population, and arguments like this start to get passed around to continue to keep people divided against themselves over the actual pedophile ironically using the same flaws in logic they claim to criticize.
That's a super dumb take.
Just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it wasn't a valuable contribution on our journey to a truth.
The general accusation to conspiracy theorists is that it's all wrong and all super ridiculously obviously wrong, like flat earth. A "medium severe" conspiracy theory like "it's rich people who are kidnapping and raping kids" barely gets attention.
It's also making the mistake of treating "conspiracy theorists" as a monolith, which they're not.
Finally:
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying "Epstein didn't kill himself" or "Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation", is a conspiracy theorist.
Which probably means you too.
What it comes down to is this: the next time you hear something ridiculous, but evil about the government, do you dismiss it, or do you research it? Because we know who will tell you to "move along" and there is "nothing to see".
Conspiracy theories are generally very big, very serious accusations being made confidently without serious evidence.
The prevalence of conspiracy theories does indeed make it harder for people who want to stay grounded in reality to accept criticism of the powerful – this is one of the harms of conspiracy theories. It makes it harder for genuine serious criticism to be taken seriously – this is why the Putin regime allows conspiracy theorists, but persecutes serious regime critics.
It pretty much was. The qanon nonsense functioned as an umbrella conspiracy theory, which pretty much coopted all other conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists.
You think everyone who has a crazy theory is all part of one big world wide organization?
Do they hold meetings?
My conspiracy theory is the conspiracy theorists international organisation's annual meeting
If you can see what a cult/psyop can do to influence people's beliefs (Q), certainly you can then see that a lot of conspiracy spaces are manipulated by bots and other people in bad faith doing the same thing.
Not every conspiracy theorist forms beliefs - they could merely be hypothesizing/speculating. Not every conspiracy theorist believes in everything posted in these spaces, and not every conspiracy theorist follows Q and other cults like it.
What? No just because something is not yet verified by court does not mean that you are a conspiracy theoriest for believing it. If there is sufficent evidence it is okay to believe in something. There is sufficent evidence Trump is involved in the whole thing. Epstein didn't kill himself is a bit more tricky because there are different theories, he got killed is not all impropable especially with how the whole thing was handled so for me it hardly qualifies as a conspiracy theory in the collequial sense. He fleed, there was a body double and he now lives carefree somewhere? Not impossible but currently not enough evidence so i would declare it a conspiracy theory.
Spewing falsehoods, inciting hate against groups of people and clinging to a story that has been disproven for years is no worthwhile contribution. They have not contributed anything to either revealing the wrongdoing or solving anything about the case. If anything they have voted into power the most active suppressant to either of those two and it does not seem too far fetched that this is a closed feedback loop, i.e. the original "Q" falsehoods came from that very circle that is now both accused and in power or blackmailing those in power.
This is probably your best point. The more of these unhinged and wrong theories there are, the less likely I'm going to have a grain of belief the next time I'm going to hear something like it. It only hurts the truth. Nothing else.
the establishment dems were more than willing to let all this stay hidden, under 2 terms of obama and 1 with biden. giving maxwell and epstein cushy pleadeals in return for not turning on anyonw else. so clearly voting in trump a 2nd time was the right move, far as actually bringing this stuff to light.
Courts determine criminal liability withing the justice system. They do not determine truth itself. When properly designed and used, the legal system should trend towards truth, but actual truth is a separate thing entirely. The unifying aspect of conspiracy theorists is completely naive epistemology. You guys are actually doing epistemology but you just refuse to actually look at the thousands of years of work that's been done in the field across civilizations all over the world.
Yea no fuck off. Conspiracy theorists were right. They aren't racists or antisemitic, that was the loud minority that others chose to use against us all so they could dismiss our warnings. Seriously sit the fuck down bitch ass dogs. I get it, it makes you feel better to be able to dismiss the people that believed survivors because you cannot bare the fact that you ignored them for so long. But I say fuck you, you don't get to feel better about this.
Epstein met with 4chan’s founder just as the site’s infamous political thread began
Despite Epstein’s Toxicity, Steve Bannon Stood by Him, Texts Indicate
The fall of Mandelson and McSweeney proves Corbyn was right
Musk echoes rightwing conspiracy theories to defend social security cuts
Time and again, conspiracy theories are used to undermine serious journalistic inquiries, distract from ongoing scandals, silence outsider critics, destroy progressive socio-economic reforms, and perpetuate crimes against humanity.
Not only were the conspiracy theorists - from QAnon and Bannon to Mandelson and McSweeney to Theil and Musk - instrumental in covering up the truth of the Epstein Scandal, they were routinely complicit in the actual sexual abuse.
Follow any one of these conspiracy rabbit holes and at the end of it you'll inevitably find some media savvy billionaire - a Rupert Murdoch or Ross Perot or Charlies Koch or Robert Mercer - propping the whole bag of bullshit up so they can hustle another Reagan or Bush or Trump over the line and loot your back pockets while you're not looking.
That's assuming the conspiracy isn't straight up manufactured by the IDF to help justify another round of drone strikes in Gaza.
So, you're theorizing that a conspiracy of rich people and jews will conspire to push their agendas and genocide, which means conspiracy theories are fake?
Got some news for ya, you are one, just not one of the David Icke ones. Turns out that like LITERALLY every other group, "conspiracy theorists," (or, "those who believe we aren't being told the full truth about X because of the hidden agenda of Y powerful people") are also not a monolith, some are racist and some are not. Some racists are conspiracy theorists, and some are not. Some prefer coke while others prefer pepsi, point is there's variations.
Conspiracy, when broken down into it's root words, means to "breathe (-spiro) together (con-)." It doesn't have to be fake, it really just has to be people working together to achieve a goal typically defined as "illegal," though tbh I'd argue that as well, because then all it would need to not be a conspiracy is "the island said it was legal to fuck the kids." By definition however, that means that any criminal organization is a conspiracy, bloods, crips, cartels, the mob, and a gang of powerful pedos are all conspirators within their groups.
Now, as for conspiracy theories (a term invented by COINTELPRO to discredit those questioning the official narrative surrounding the death of JFK), these circles were much less racist before ~2015ish (still there, but less, more anti-semetic but also some of that can be explained by people simply saying "jews" when "zionists" would be more specific as I did above for comedic affect), what if a powerful group of people pushed racist agendas into the space to discredit those that are on the right track? I mean, with Epstein involved in /pol/, it's entirely possible... What if Alex Jones was a plant to accomplish just that? He was one of the major ones responsible for the shift into direct racism that made most of the non-racist people who are skeptical of the world's leaders leave boards like /x/ and stop talking about it, because the second you do someone like you says "well you're racist because Alex also doesn't believe everything he's told, and he's racist, so you must be racist too."
Yes. I'm theorizing Elon Musk bought Twitter
And he's conspiring with people to control a narrative and push their agenda, eh? Not telling everyone the whole truth, is it? Hmmm....
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me!
A conspiracy theory is when you conspire with people openly and in plain view of the public.
Yes, conspiring with conspirators is a conspiracy, that we know it is happening only changes it from "theory" to "fact."
Okay
Yes, correct. I'm glad you've come around.
You are doing exactly what I said... 4chan is just a place for loud idiots you are the one choosing to give them merit so you can dismiss me. Fuck off and feel bad for dismissing the victims for all these years take some responsibility and stop blaming others.
Just think... Why did he want to infiltrate 4chan? Was it to invent conspiracies against him, or to manipulate the conspiracies so they could be dismissed...? Actually think rather than trying to come up with reasons to not take responsibility for not believing survivors sooner. You know that big ass group of women we see on stage these days have been saying what they have been saying for years right? Why haven't you heard of them before all this? THINK!
Cause it's a website full of pedophiles.
Well you are the expert I'll have to take your word for it.
Do you agree with the statement “Donald Trump is a child rapist and doesn’t deserve to be free”?
I don't participate in purity tests.