Spyke
FaceDeerreply
fedia.io

If this was fiction I'd be complaining about how on-the-nose it was.

40

I find myself saying words to this effect more and more, and more and more lately

13
kuretareply
lemmy.ml

Holy shit! The ratio is really 3/5! wtf!?

44
pfrreply
piefed.social

Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone please explain 3/5ths to me like I'm 5

6
slrpnk.net

And how is that different from slavery?

134
lemmy.blahaj.zone

It isn't, this is how they get around it, and literally wrote into the amendment banning slavery to leave a carve out for prisoners

151

also to put them in perpetually low wage jobs, where they cant complain, much like they do with Immigrants. and to live them socioeconomically disadvantaged for generations with no way to lift them out of.

5
lemmy.world

The constitution makes slavery legal for prisoners

Says so right there literally just read the 13th amendment

105
FaceDeerreply
fedia.io

Had a whole civil war over it and still didn't get rid of slavery.

64
gustofwindreply
lemmy.world

Yeah lmao this is the amendment making slavery illegal….exceptaspunishmentforacrime

Tho I guess in fairness involuntary labor for prisoners is not really like slavery of innocent people but that’s why we have a corrupt criminal justice system to make up the difference 😃

29

Black americans have the highest rate of incarceration for this exact reason. Racist cops, lawyers, and judges get to lock up black people and make them slaves.

20
mander.xyz

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it" - Lincoln

11
lemmy.world

Slavery is illegal except for prisoners. Forcing prisoners to work is perfectly constitutional.

The bill of rights is wrong and must be admended. Closing this loop hole will kill the for profit prison industrial complex.

87

It won't kill the for profit prisons, this is just an aspect of how for profit prisons make profit.

They should ban for profit prisons outright.

7
lemmy.world

Unionizing is NEVER illegal. Source: The thousands upon thousands of people that have died over the years for your right to organize.

60
gruereply
lemmy.world

And besides, what're they gonna do, put them in prison?

43
chickenreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The video gets into this a bit; what the workers are threatened with for not working is stuff like being put in a more dangerous environment and not being able to see their families.

22

Definitely cruel but not at all unusual. And as SCOTUS has determined, a punishment has to be both cruel and unusual to be unconstitutional.

9
reddthat.com

This is an all over problem but Alabama and Louisiana are so bad I avoid even driving through.

52

Alabama is bad but Louisiana is an absolute shithole state with crooks in the gov. Full of poverty when those should be very rich people. Too bad they didn't make the oil companies pay taxes for all that oil they drill or spill in the gulf every day.

12
lemmy.world

Man, you are letting Mississippi off the hook here. I used to live in Louisiana but spent a lot of time working in Mississippi and I could not say which state is worse. The only good things about either one are the winter weather and the crawfish.

6

As a Mississippi refugee, Mississippi is worse. We don’t even have a fun city like New Orleans. I do miss the food though. Crawfish in the PNW are so tiny.

2

If they're capable of working at these jobs, they don't need to be in prison. Either release them or stop using a system that garnishes their wages.

45
lemmy.zip

Y'all really ain't ready for the slavery in the US agriculture sector conversation. It's really bad, and this ICE shit is just acceleration

42
lemmy.world

Or why they have decimated public education in black communities.

13
sh.itjust.works

And just in general. Black communities were definitely hit hardest and first, but the damage isn't solely contained there.

6

The Right essentially decided to destroy public education in response to desegregation.

The district I worked for was excellent in the 50’s and 60’s. Now, the only high school that isn’t a failure is the application school all the white kids get into.

4

The more I learn about the US, the more I realise the shining city on the hill I believed in as a child is actually a giant dumpster fire.

39

It's like Trump being what poor people envision as rich.

America is what other countries view as prosperous, when in reality it's just 10 rich people in a trench coat, and 350 million suffering underneath.

15
lemmy.ml

Slavery never went away. It's just been rebranded, repackaged and sanitized.

37
deHagareply
feddit.uk

Not American, but isn't that what the 13th amendment did? Make slave labour legal for prisons?

19

the crazy thing about this story (aside from the slavery) is that the voters of Alabama voted to outlaw that exception at the state level but ever since then, their governor has overidden that effort.

10

As a foreigner, you probably know more about the US Constitution than most US citizens. And I'm saying that as a natural born US citizen.

8

Yep!

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

7

USA - the country that have "except" in thier "no slavery" rule. I'm not even joking. Thats 100% true.

35
lemmy.world

That is slavery.

Hopefully the decent folk in Alabama-- wherever they hide-- boycott the fuck outta those places.

29

Here’s a reminder that the 13th amendment didn’t abolish slavery. It simply added the “they must be a criminal before you can enslave them” qualifier…

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction

Emphasis mine. Why do you think the model for the modern police force started as slave catchers, and then pivoted hard towards “law enforcement” after the civil war? The US already had law enforcers. They were called sheriffs (county), troopers (state), and marshals (federal). The individual cities and towns didn’t have their own independent police forces until after the civil war… Instead, the county sheriff would deputize people to enforce laws in the individual cities on the sheriff’s behalf. And those brand new city-level police forces were manned by, you guessed it, former slave catchers. And they never really stopped catching slaves. They just changed what they called it.

The US thrives on slavery, even today, with private prisons as the modern slave owners.

31
lemmy.today

This is the future of MAGA America. Imagine how much more profitable corporations could be if 90% of their workforce is AI, Robotic, or Federally-provided Slave Labor, privately managed by a Trump-owned company?

What do you think all those new regional concentration camps and an enormous paramilitary organization are going to do when the "immigrant problem" has been largely handled? Trump and Stephen "PeeWee Himmler" Miller and Trump are getting into the slavery business.

28
Aceticonreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

This crap predates MAGA by a long long time - after all, as somebody else pointed out, the 13th Ammendment of the US constitution explicitly allows slavery for those convicted of crimes.

Whilst MAGA is obviously going to abuse the shit out of this, this kind of infrastructure for Fascism has long been in place and was already used even before MAGA was a twinkling in the eyes of whatever Koch Brother's Funded Think Tank employee who came up with it.

8
lemmy.today

Valid, the 13th Amendment is an abomination, but it was mostly used as a rationalization to suppress wages in prison workshops, and exempt them from minimum wage. It was never intended to be the foundation for establishing a new system for our entire nation's entire economy.

But we are approaching a labor crossroads in this country, and while MOST American workers haven't been paying much attention to the upcoming revolutions in AI and Robotics, Sociopathic Oligarchs and the Corporations have been laser-focused on it for a few decades, and their objectives are finally at hand.

As if replacing much of their workforce with tireless tools like AI and Robotics wasn't wonderful enough for their profits, now MAGA is dangling a shiny bauble that only the most psychopathic of Ferengi Oligarchs could dare to dream about - a return to literal slavery, a nearly free labor pool of workers who can be treated in any way. No worries about rights, benefits, safety, regulations, etc. Imagine how much more profitable they could be?

7
Aceticonreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

suppress wages in prison workshops, and exempt them from minimum wage

And how is that in any way form or shape a good thing?

Prison forced labor is just Indentured Servitude with extra steps to give it the appearance of legitimacy and fairness.

It seems to me (not at American) that the intention to exploit people who have no other choice was there from the start. Create a structure were you can get cheap/free labor of people who have been deemed by others to be LABEL (in this case, a felon) and deprived of their freedom and you always end up with more and more people being given LABEL and deprived of their freedom so that the can be used as cheap/free labor.

The United States has long been the nation in the World with the highest percentage of people in prison, so one either believes that human beings in the US are different and more prone to crime or that there is a higher incentive in the US than elsewhere at the level of who controls those things to put people in prison and getting cheap or even free work sure sounds a lot like such an incentive.

The well was poisoned from the very start.

As I see it, this is far from the only way in which America is Exceptional but not in a good way and if one thinks further out from that, one can conclude that movements such as MAGA, the way workers are treated and a lot of other phenomenons in the US rooted in not treating ones' fellow human being as a person are in fact all part of one broad systemic cultural and political problem.

2
lemmy.today

suppress wages in prison workshops, and exempt them from minimum wage

And how is that in any way form or shape a good thing?

I'm not saying that it is, I've even called it an abomination on many occasions, I'm just saying that the use of it in the past was limited to people who wouldn't get much sympathy from society at large, rightly or wrongly.

And I am further saying that one of MAGA's primary characteristics is finding loopholes in otherwise benign laws and policies, and they have identified 13A as one that ripe for serious exploitation. They simply can't resist abusing every opportunity that comes their way. Slavery comes with the added advantage of being very lucrative, and Trump REALLY can't resist that.

1

IMHO, the almost idolatry of the Constitution in the US meant that a what's essentially a Prototype of Modern Democracy kept getting used without a systemic update for too long and was essentially relying on everybody being a gentleman to work.

Personally the whole part were the Political Pillar being in charge of nominating the top of the Judicial Pillar - the Supreme Court Judges - even though in Democracy those Pillars are supposed to be independent, always felt like a major weakness in the face of Authoritarian encroaching, as did the First Past The Post voting system.

That's the point I'm trying to make: the flaws in the American system are systemic, making it more easy from autoritarians (not just Trump's Fascists but also the Oligarchy that stands behind both the Republicans and the Democrats) to control it.

The main difference with the Fascists is how brazen then are in doing so, which the other bunch would be far more discrete (hence which the Prison population in the US was already so large under the "other" political party of the US Duopoly system).

1

That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang All day long they work so hard Till the sun is goin' down Working on the highways and byways And wearing, wearing a frown

3

Trump did say they are teaching about slavery wrong, they are too negative.

3

Definitely "Home of the Brave" though. You'd have to be brave to want to live there.

4

Welcome to the United Snakes
Land of the thief home of the slave
The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred and power is God

2

The 13th Amendment allows for forced labor in prisons. This is how Trump and the GOP will reinstitute slavery in the USA.

23

They weren't suggesting Trump invented it. They were suggesting Trump plans to expand it, nationalize it, and institutionalize it.

7
SSTFreply
lemmy.world

According to the AP article it isn't forced per say, but it is highly leveraged onto inmates using early release/parole as a carrot.

Turning down work can jeopardize chances of early release in a state that last year granted parole to only 8% of eligible prisoners — an all-time low, and among the worst rates nationwide — though that number more than doubled this year after public outcry.

2
Sharkticonreply
lemmy.zip

I would say threatening someone with more prison time absolutely counts as "forced".

7
SSTFreply
lemmy.world

I'm not justifying or agreeing with it, but I think accuracy is important to minimize holes people can poke in discussions when you bring things like this topic up. It isn't precisely being threatened with more time than the initial sentence, it is being threatened with not successfully getting a shorter time through parole.

1
Sharkticonreply
lemmy.zip

Again though, for the sake of accuracy, that's still Force. Saying you won't be eligible for something that you should be eligible for normally, taking away that opportunity via a threat is absolutely Force. Especially when that's something is your freedom.

4
SSTFreply
lemmy.world

I'm not here to argue on the situation. What I am saying is that if you discuss this with somebody neutral or opposed to you, it matters to make sure you position yourself well. Otherwise you can get completely sidetracked over words, as we are currently.

If you say "prisoners are being forced to work", that can turn into a losing discussion quickly when you have to get into an extended discussion about how prisoners aren't actively being dragged to work against their will. Actively being dragged out of their cells and put to work would be the initial connotation, as I've even seen in this thread. Once that connotation is shown not to be what's happening, you'll lose people quickly.

If right out of the gate you say prisoners are being coerced to work with the threat of an unfair parole hearing, you are on a much stronger foundation that people can't truthfully pick at.

I get the feeling you feel so strongly about this that you might not care about what other people initially think initially or that you don't want to give ground on what qualifies as forcing something, but if you want to get your message across, making it more bulletproof helps it.

1

When you say sidetracked do you mean something like what we're doing right now because you continue to inaccurately describe the use of force? Cuz that's what's happening right now. You are misusing the word and it has caused the conversation to derail.

2

This isn't how debates work outside of school and the style of argument is basically useful nowhere

1

Another reminder that private prisons (>10% of prisons in the US) are not the end-all be-all of everything wrong with the US justice system. The public side of things is messed up enough on its own.

18

Offered to non violent misdemeanor offenders... First person has 15 year sentence...

Literally slavery, what a 3rd world country

15

the money goes all to the top. its pratically russia, all the money the country produce goes to putin and his oligarchs. that is why the gop and DNC, billionaires/donors arnt going to give that up. its thier "charity" to the masses so they dont revolt against both parties, plus they added in culture wars as a distraction so you cant congregate and revolt. thats why propaganda pacified the masses.

1

Driving Uber, I hear so many stories like this. For example, I never knew you paid for this "privilege," and apparently you PAY TO BE ON PROBATION!? Among so much other insane bullshit.

14

Even more insane is prisoners (and their families) end up paying for their incarceration. When you consider that 40% of African American men are under some form of penal supervision, this goes a long way to explain why so many seem to be in a perpetual state of poverty.

8

when i was in my early 20's i had a friend who was on house-arrest. She unknowingly convinced me that if i ever found myself in her situation just to do the time instead of aiming for a house arrest plea-deal for similar reasons.

7

Lol I paid $5000 for a plea deal, along every step of the way I've confirmed with my lawyer and judge that I can just pay my way out

4

"Congrats you just got more time!" - the slavers prisons when you aren't a perfect slave prisoner.

9

Future what? It’s literally happening in the US right now.

Present of the United States.

21

And coincidentally, there will be a call to "crack down" on smaller crimes, make it easier to do time.

9

The formerly enslaved people willing to speak out and use their names on camera for this doco are incredibly brave. They are going to be targeted for this, and they know it. The system does not want to stop making money, and it will do anything to protect the cashflow.

9

This country is so fucked. We haven't updated the Constitution since the 18th century and even has slavery in its wording ffs.

7

Found this bad boi a while back and applied personal boycotts. Assume that it's still accurate after five years but haven't found an updated version. Prison labour is slave labour by another name.

5
lemmy.today

So if they can get rid of all the brown minorities, then there won't be anyone to protest against re-enslavement of black people! So it will be a white world again!

With concubines, slaves, torture, murder, abuse of women!

My wife did not get her ballot for this election! WTF! We've been voting for many years by mail.

4
lemmy.world

What if you just sit down on the ground and refuse to do anything? I'd rather go to solitary

3

“I’d rather go to solitary” is said by people who have never had to endure it. Anyone who has actually been in solitary will agree that it was literal torture. For the first day, you’re just bored. By the third day, you’re hallucinating, seeing things crawling around in your peripheral vision and hearing whispers through the walls. By the end of the week, you’re having full blown conversations with ghosts, and can’t tell if you’re awake or asleep. You’re lucky if you haven’t seriously injured yourself by the end of it, because at least pain is stimulating. Then when the guard slides your food through the door slot after a week, they hear you screaming at ghosts and see the blood smeared across the wall, and casually add another week of solitary because you’re being uncooperative.

The human brain desperately craves stimulation. It craves stimulation so badly that when it can’t find any, it makes its own.

10