Watching races becomes way better if one plays some sim racing games and gets into adjusting the car for the track. Racing is a rare sport that one can somewhat experience themselves without athletic training.
Maybe they're trying to say that science (at least, Phys) without advanced calculus is "just" outreach or popularization. And they're right, even if your sensibility can't accept it.
Does an F1 driver need to understand and utilize advanced calculus on the track to do well? I feel that concepts like grip/slip, aero, centripetal force, and weight transfer are intimately linked to an intuition for physics, even if they aren't being understood at a calculus-requiring level by the driver.
Yet, I would struggle to call that situation "outreach" or "popularizarion." I would still consider the driver's understanding of physics as tangential to science.
IMO you need basic calculus to understand the laws of physics. Like at least to understand that the derivative is the rate of change, the integral is the area under the curve, the fundamental theorem(s) of calculus, and what limits are. You don't necessarily need to do δ-ε proofs, but at least the qualitative stuff is worth teaching.
I took algebra-based physics for my music degree and then calculus-based physics for my engineering degree. Algebra-based physics explained basically nothing for me and had zero impact on my understanding of the world. Calculus-based physics will stick with me forever.
Like I'm with you that outreach is important and should not be dismissed, but I really don't see the utility of algebra-based physics.
I know they're not a scientist. But to say they have no grasp or interest in science would also be wrong, so I think the answer lies somewhere in the gray area, and not this black and white perspective presented in OP.
You can be enthusiastic and have a simplified-but-robust understanding of some kinds of science, that doesn't make you less of an enjoyer. But there are certainly people who only understand at a surface level, yet pretend to be immersed in the material and demand to be treated like experts.
there should be a gate keep barrier. there is a big difference between a scientist with a degree who works in science, and a science enthusiast.
there's nothing wrong in the second one, I just think we shouldn't mix em too much, less we end up with "expert" without qualifications (were already here).
For me, the leap to multivariate calculus gave me a lot of trouble.
Differential equations was doable but no longer fun for me, either.
It was a combination of multivariate calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations where I just wasn't having fun with math anymore. Those subjects represented the end of pure math education for me, and later engineering classes requiring knowledge in those were also not a ton of fun. Went from a self-described math and science guy to just...not describing myself in that way anymore.
Honestly the standard curriculum was fine. It was when you got into trying to apply those skills to deciphering academic literature in a meaningful way as part of a broader career that things got tricky.
At a certain point my pattern recognition skills reached their limit to where learning each new concept was still the same, but I had a lot more trouble organically seeing and identifying when a particular technique was useful for a particular type of problem. Which is something that happens to a lot of different people at different stages of their math education, just happens to different people at different points.
And maybe I could've stuck with it, or used it enough to where I eventually got it easily the way I had done with all math topics before that, but I ended up steering the rest of my engineering education into topics that weren't as heavy on that type of math. More programming and logic and microcontrollers, less electromagnetics and radio signals.
The start of calculus is relatively easy and intuitive, ive heard there are some schools that teach the basics of it to children at the same time they normally learn algebra.
Then theres the real bastard calculus that can and will make grown adults cry.
When there is more letters than numbers. When the letters change to weird shapes (integral). When there are multiple successive brackets. I dunno, I am not a mathematician.
From my experience, books titled "advanced calculus" cover the fundamentals in a lot more detail, with focus on δ-ε proofs. Usually, "advanced calculus" comes between elementary calculus (Calc 1-3 in a US institution) and real analysis.
Ah, ok. Then math isn't science, it's just a tool for physics, computer science, and such. Also physics isn't science, it's just a tool for engineering and biology. Biology and chemistry aren't sciences, they're just tools for medicine and agriculture.
why is the anglophone sphere calling every slightly complex phenomenon science? science is a method, AFAIK, that produces reliable knowledge over time.
for example how is the sun itself science? sure, there's knowledge to be made about composition, dynamics etc., but when this knowledge gets widely shared without the goal of expanding existing knowledge for the goal of education or entertainment, hasn't this long left the field of science?
for science, why aren't you saying you love edutainment?
I have a similar issue with the word research. Do your own research - wtf. Research is either standing in the lab and actually experimenting, or conducting (clinical) studies, or at the very least an extensive literature research that even for a paper takes days (more like weeks and months) and a lot of knowledge on the field as well as methods for literature research in this sphere to be conducted properly. I absolutely don't want you to do your own research about my field of study. You probably have a job and don't want to go to university for 6 years to understand my niche.
At school, topics are divided into Arts, Science and Humanities. The majority of Bachelor’s degrees are titled Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science.
Using the word “Science” colloquially to describe anything that isn’t the Arts or Humanities is entirely consistent.
German has Geistes- (Spirit/Mind) Sciences and Natural Sciences.
I don't see how the imprecision of calling it simply Science is valid though, given that it's just a lukewarm repost of the age old quantitative vs qualitative research war.
Mammary studies are a very advanced field. There are so many cup sizes and don't get me started on how they relate to other measurements. And then there's nipples, how do they even work?
I like the calculus part, actually. The fact that we can make equations for EVERYTHING and simplify the abstract into something consumable, like using the points and curvature of a wing to estimate drag coefficient in a couple lines of math instead of relying solely on countless vectors and fluid dynamics.
The math subjects that require a lot of prerequisite knowledge are usually what I avoid. Without a project in mind, it becomes a huge waste of time to try to understand.
Im not familiar with kurzegesagt or Rick and Morty hentai but I'm pretty sure that was the expression on my face for most of the runtime of Interstellar
It's true. Friends call me Snow Miser, whatever I touch turns to snow in my clutch. Interstellar was still awful though lol. I might have enjoyed it like any other scifi if it wasn't specifically advertised as a scientifically accurate portrayal of space travel, but that is how it was advertised and accurate it was not
sigh Great, another format I have to wait for other apps to support if I want to share the memes. And webp was finally getting to the point where it wasn’t annoying the fuck out of me.
Could be a Lemmy.Zip thing, then. Would be nice if the people who run instances would also consider how their personal hosting choices effect sharing across the wider internet. I get us tech nerds have our respective preferences for obscure formats for various reasons, but we really should be playing somewhat nicely with other environments if we want to attract users.
When I try to use the built-in share feature, it’s sharing it as a .avif file. Wonder if it’s specific to the app I’m using (Voyager). Something I’ve only noticed happening recently.
Actually, curiosity got the better of me and after taking a brief look, there is Kursgesagt Hentai. I just really don't want to interact with it anymore than I already have.
I hate how we center physics and it's use of mathematical tools as the right way of doing science. Many, if not all sciences today, leverage mathmatical tools to create models. But Darwin, as far as I recall, didn't use math at all. A whole host of sciences don't approach their problems through mathematically described laws or even statistical models. Earth sciences, botany, anatomy, organic chemistry, ethnography, and archelogy come to mind.
But Darwin, as far as I recall, didn’t use math at all.
You should take a look at modern evolution theories.
A whole host of sciences don’t approach their problems through mathematically described laws or even statistical models.
"Models" are something mathematical by definition. A lot of sciences have very simple models that people can handle without formalism. They are still mathematical, even if you don't need to calculate things.
I'm not denying that modern evolutionary theories use math and I think it's important, but that in many sciences, math isn't the focus like it is in physics. A lot of good science can be done without math. Darwin did good science without math.
To be very clear, science doesn't need math. We use math as a tool to accurately describe phememona and relationships with math.
I don't what you are saying about models being mathematical by definition eben if people can handle it. I don't see how the model of the cell is mathematical. Models require relationships and not mathematics to describe those relationships.
Don't sell yourself short.
If you can ride a bicycle, you can probably handle a tricycle.
OP has a point. Star Wars is not science fiction, it's religious fantasy.
It's definitely not engineering otherwise they wouldn't use 12 ft thick catwalks in space.
Watching races becomes way better if one plays some sim racing games and gets into adjusting the car for the track. Racing is a rare sport that one can somewhat experience themselves without athletic training.
Sure, because baseball fans are the physical elite of the sports world. Playing a video game is nothing like actual track racing.
And they're saying that's you.
Well the meme is still stupid. :) Basically trying to say that only people who studied science are qualified to say they like science.
Their face doesn't go 🫤 at the sight of hard math & theory? The statement's that it does.
Maybe they're trying to say that science (at least, Phys) without advanced calculus is "just" outreach or popularization. And they're right, even if your sensibility can't accept it.
Does an F1 driver need to understand and utilize advanced calculus on the track to do well? I feel that concepts like grip/slip, aero, centripetal force, and weight transfer are intimately linked to an intuition for physics, even if they aren't being understood at a calculus-requiring level by the driver.
Yet, I would struggle to call that situation "outreach" or "popularizarion." I would still consider the driver's understanding of physics as tangential to science.
IMO you need basic calculus to understand the laws of physics. Like at least to understand that the derivative is the rate of change, the integral is the area under the curve, the fundamental theorem(s) of calculus, and what limits are. You don't necessarily need to do δ-ε proofs, but at least the qualitative stuff is worth teaching.
I took algebra-based physics for my music degree and then calculus-based physics for my engineering degree. Algebra-based physics explained basically nothing for me and had zero impact on my understanding of the world. Calculus-based physics will stick with me forever.
Like I'm with you that outreach is important and should not be dismissed, but I really don't see the utility of algebra-based physics.
A F1 driver is not a scientist. And no, you're wrong.
I know they're not a scientist. But to say they have no grasp or interest in science would also be wrong, so I think the answer lies somewhere in the gray area, and not this black and white perspective presented in OP.
You can be enthusiastic and have a simplified-but-robust understanding of some kinds of science, that doesn't make you less of an enjoyer. But there are certainly people who only understand at a surface level, yet pretend to be immersed in the material and demand to be treated like experts.
Most F1 drivers have no education beyond high school. Lance Stroll barely has a grasp of grammar.
We're gatekeeping science now?
This is just the equivalent of "oh you like , name all their albums". It's dumb and you don't need to be an expert to appreciate something.
there should be a gate keep barrier. there is a big difference between a scientist with a degree who works in science, and a science enthusiast.
there's nothing wrong in the second one, I just think we shouldn't mix em too much, less we end up with "expert" without qualifications (were already here).
What's wrong with an amateur publishing a (probably low quality) paper? It's not going to waste many people's time, and it's not common
nothing wrong with a blog or pop sci, just that those aren't trusted sources.
Meaningless distinction. There are many fields of science an expert in one is not an expert in others.
it's meaningless in most social context.
except when it matters. when is a real issue, I don't want TV to interview a science enthusiast about climate change, or vaccines. get real experts.
It me. I love science but I’m definitely a YouTube learner and terrible at calc.
It’s all so fascinating though! Keep it up scientists!
4chan-tier childish elitism in Facebook-tier packaging 👍
If there's advanced calculus, there's presumably also regular calculus, so at what point does calculus start to be advanced?
For me, the leap to multivariate calculus gave me a lot of trouble.
Differential equations was doable but no longer fun for me, either.
It was a combination of multivariate calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations where I just wasn't having fun with math anymore. Those subjects represented the end of pure math education for me, and later engineering classes requiring knowledge in those were also not a ton of fun. Went from a self-described math and science guy to just...not describing myself in that way anymore.
Honestly the standard curriculum was fine. It was when you got into trying to apply those skills to deciphering academic literature in a meaningful way as part of a broader career that things got tricky.
Is it just that it becomes so difficult/technical at that point?
At a certain point my pattern recognition skills reached their limit to where learning each new concept was still the same, but I had a lot more trouble organically seeing and identifying when a particular technique was useful for a particular type of problem. Which is something that happens to a lot of different people at different stages of their math education, just happens to different people at different points.
And maybe I could've stuck with it, or used it enough to where I eventually got it easily the way I had done with all math topics before that, but I ended up steering the rest of my engineering education into topics that weren't as heavy on that type of math. More programming and logic and microcontrollers, less electromagnetics and radio signals.
The start of calculus is relatively easy and intuitive, ive heard there are some schools that teach the basics of it to children at the same time they normally learn algebra.
Then theres the real bastard calculus that can and will make grown adults cry.
Regular algebra makes me cry....
I had a full blown melt down over something called linear algebra. Good times, good times.
I can think of a few potential cut offs, taking differential calculus to be basic.
Integral calculus. Multivariate calculus. Differential equations. Epsilon-Lamba calculus.
But that's just my opinion.
When there is more letters than numbers. When the letters change to weird shapes (integral). When there are multiple successive brackets. I dunno, I am not a mathematician.
Probably around analysis and abstract algebra which come after multi variate calculus and differential equations.
From my experience, books titled "advanced calculus" cover the fundamentals in a lot more detail, with focus on δ-ε proofs. Usually, "advanced calculus" comes between elementary calculus (Calc 1-3 in a US institution) and real analysis.
Loved complex analysis. Poles for days. Such weird maths
After three semesters
More than one variable.
Oh you like Space?
Name every celestial body.
your mom
That's a) impossible; and b) if limited enough to be possible would take too long to be practical
Physics, engineering, statistics, economics, and mathematical modeling in general aren't science? Big claim there, bud.
Calculus is a tool used in science, absolutely. But calculus itself is not science, in the same way that a chisel is not woodworking.
Ah, ok. Then math isn't science, it's just a tool for physics, computer science, and such. Also physics isn't science, it's just a tool for engineering and biology. Biology and chemistry aren't sciences, they're just tools for medicine and agriculture.
Sure, that's exactly what I said. Speaking of tools...
Engineering is not science. It uses science.
But what about engineering science?
I'm not familiar with what they do. Describe it and I might be able to. Or not.
Isn't that materials science?
Well it's a tool, and a science in itself too, I guess, if you go into advanced fronter mathematics
why is the anglophone sphere calling every slightly complex phenomenon science? science is a method, AFAIK, that produces reliable knowledge over time.
for example how is the sun itself science? sure, there's knowledge to be made about composition, dynamics etc., but when this knowledge gets widely shared without the goal of expanding existing knowledge for the goal of education or entertainment, hasn't this long left the field of science?
for science, why aren't you saying you love edutainment?
I have a similar issue with the word research. Do your own research - wtf. Research is either standing in the lab and actually experimenting, or conducting (clinical) studies, or at the very least an extensive literature research that even for a paper takes days (more like weeks and months) and a lot of knowledge on the field as well as methods for literature research in this sphere to be conducted properly. I absolutely don't want you to do your own research about my field of study. You probably have a job and don't want to go to university for 6 years to understand my niche.
At school, topics are divided into Arts, Science and Humanities. The majority of Bachelor’s degrees are titled Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science.
Using the word “Science” colloquially to describe anything that isn’t the Arts or Humanities is entirely consistent.
German has Geistes- (Spirit/Mind) Sciences and Natural Sciences.
I don't see how the imprecision of calling it simply Science is valid though, given that it's just a lukewarm repost of the age old quantitative vs qualitative research war.
Math is the language of the universe. Unfortunately I'm dyslexic.
I can understand complicated molecular interactions but throw numbers in my face and I'm the dumbest person in the room.
Dyscalculia is the word you're looking for
It's fun that I had no idea this word existed, and this is now the second Lemmy comment today that's used it.
What a beautifully fitting name for it
They just like looking at sciences tits. To be honest so do I
Mammary studies are a very advanced field. There are so many cup sizes and don't get me started on how they relate to other measurements. And then there's nipples, how do they even work?
I like the calculus part, actually. The fact that we can make equations for EVERYTHING and simplify the abstract into something consumable, like using the points and curvature of a wing to estimate drag coefficient in a couple lines of math instead of relying solely on countless vectors and fluid dynamics.
And then we have things that remap what seems one-dimensional into abstract spaces, so that we can draw new conclusions.
The calculus is unironically the best part
Do we have an /imverysmart yet?
I am sad that you have not yet received a community name. I'll search and report back
Ed. Yes there is, but it's at .ml
[email protected]
It's not very popular
Of course it would be a .ml community...
I said I love science, not that I know it or can practice it, they're different things.
Science is a process, and it's really simple:
There are technical bits that make that easier, but the big parts are keeping records of what you've done and what the results were
Some hypotheses are expensive to test, best leave those to the well funded pros
Well what kind of hentai is scientific? 🤷♂️
I’m sure there’s something out there. Rule 34 and all that.
Large_Hard-on_Collider.jpg
There's ISS rule 34 content, after all.
I was making an observation, rather than speculation.
I once made a joke about sea urchins and rule34…. Several people rule 35’d it
I love the math that I understand XD
The math subjects that require a lot of prerequisite knowledge are usually what I avoid. Without a project in mind, it becomes a huge waste of time to try to understand.
Im not familiar with kurzegesagt or Rick and Morty hentai but I'm pretty sure that was the expression on my face for most of the runtime of Interstellar
That's because your frigid heart doesn't understand the science of looooove
It's true. Friends call me Snow Miser, whatever I touch turns to snow in my clutch. Interstellar was still awful though lol. I might have enjoyed it like any other scifi if it wasn't specifically advertised as a scientifically accurate portrayal of space travel, but that is how it was advertised and accurate it was not
Also, everyone who's claiming they love science should read both Kuhn and Feyerabend. Kinda eye-opening shit
Yeah let's get rid of science communication altogether
I am sure everything will be just fine
SciComm or Edutainment?
Basically me when I quit Computer Science for Film & TV
I did a year then realized I'd rather make the next Interstellar than code for NASA
Do what fills your heart and belly.
that sounds nsfl
sigh Great, another format I have to wait for other apps to support if I want to share the memes. And webp was finally getting to the point where it wasn’t annoying the fuck out of me.
? This is just jpg
Some homeservers convert uploaded images automatically to save space iirc
Could be a Lemmy.Zip thing, then. Would be nice if the people who run instances would also consider how their personal hosting choices effect sharing across the wider internet. I get us tech nerds have our respective preferences for obscure formats for various reasons, but we really should be playing somewhat nicely with other environments if we want to attract users.
When I try to use the built-in share feature, it’s sharing it as a .avif file. Wonder if it’s specific to the app I’m using (Voyager). Something I’ve only noticed happening recently.
Either way, good content at least!
It shows avif in browser too
Wonder why that happened tho? Is it my instance or voyager (posted using it)? Because the image locally was jpg
Tested uploading an image reply in browser and Voyager, and they both seem to upload in webp. Perhaps a lemmy.zip instance thing?
Oh yes its .zip, I confirmed from the instance admin. Apparently they do it to keep storage cost as low as possible
Works just fine in voyager for me
Kursgesagt Hentai? Where?
Unfortunately, it's not just Kursgesagt Hentai.
It only Kursgesagt and Rick and Morty Hentai.
Actually, curiosity got the better of me and after taking a brief look, there is Kursgesagt Hentai. I just really don't want to interact with it anymore than I already have.Quoting veritasium and other YouTubers with some hyper specific never actually seen examples and declaring the entire field fraudulent.
We don't like Kurzgesagt??
Yup, they are a billionaire propaganda outlet, ig funded by bill gates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGfBV4I8DQI&t=138s
Oh no, they got a tiny bit of money from some of Bill Gates' foundations which support education.
It's not from Gates directly.
If it was from Gates directly why would you be upset at him giving some no strings attached money to an educational channel?
(I'm taking it as read that you have beliefs about Gates being bad and don't see a point in arguing opinions like that)
I hate how we center physics and it's use of mathematical tools as the right way of doing science. Many, if not all sciences today, leverage mathmatical tools to create models. But Darwin, as far as I recall, didn't use math at all. A whole host of sciences don't approach their problems through mathematically described laws or even statistical models. Earth sciences, botany, anatomy, organic chemistry, ethnography, and archelogy come to mind.
You should take a look at modern evolution theories.
"Models" are something mathematical by definition. A lot of sciences have very simple models that people can handle without formalism. They are still mathematical, even if you don't need to calculate things.
I'm not denying that modern evolutionary theories use math and I think it's important, but that in many sciences, math isn't the focus like it is in physics. A lot of good science can be done without math. Darwin did good science without math.
To be very clear, science doesn't need math. We use math as a tool to accurately describe phememona and relationships with math.
I don't what you are saying about models being mathematical by definition eben if people can handle it. I don't see how the model of the cell is mathematical. Models require relationships and not mathematics to describe those relationships.
Do Scott Manely videos count as science, or science?
as a scientist, I'll say yes
I love calculus !!!
I liked derivatives and integrations. Series and sequences can suck my left third toe knuckle.
Aww I love sequences. I guess I can agree on series, though. Boring shit.
As long as I don't have to deal with matrices, I'm cool.
Granted. You should brush up on your tensor calculus, though.
This is why i left the game