Right. I spent the last several hours trying to get a mixed batch of Win10, Win11, and Win10-upgraded-from-8 computers to talk to a printer and had just about enough of this argument. If you want a pissing match of who can be the biggest dick, take it to Twitter.
There's only so much incessant bitching I can hear about dark patterns, intrusive automatic updates, shoehorned-in and useless AI, zero user choice, planned obsolesence, and being blindsided by enshittification before I say "just try using the free thing that doesn't have those problems".
"I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas." If you have to for work or something, though, I totally get it and encourage the bitching.
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it "trying nothing" when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren't tech savvy at all, "Ain't nobody got the time for that!" is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It's like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don't have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain't nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
I gave my grandma a Linux, she had no idea. All she needed was a web browser that didn't feed her ads and give her issues. Fedora with KDE was super simple for her to figure out how to use and actually had better accessibility features for her. And it was free.
Linux is actually pretty noob friendly nowadays. And if you don't want to mess with it yourself, you can buy computers with Linux preinstalled today.
I get that sometimes people just want to complain and not solution. But like, using windows and other surveillance capitalism adjacent products is a path to fascism so like...maybe people should just, critically evaluate their problems and think of solutions every now and then?
I literally use Linux in my daily life non-stop. My desktop is free from Windows and I run numerous servers for various services and microservices.
I just fundamentally disagree with the hivemind that Linux desktop of any flavor is ready for casual user prime-time. Even if they don't have technical issues with now that doesn't mean they won't have technical issues with it ever. In my personal experience, I have only ever had successful long-term rollouts of non-gui cli-only servers. I have always had issues of some sort crop up with desktop Linux eventually.
Further, depending on the DE, getting things set up properly for someone who has, say, vision issues so everything is easily visible for them can often be a fucking nightmare of numerous different config files for different parts of the GUI. Linux accessibility options are notoriously bad.
If you want to pretend Linux is a perfect solution for grandmas, go ahead, but as someone who is a Linux heavy user who doesn't even use Windows anymore and hasn't in a while I think that this attitude from Linux evangelists is deeply rooted in a rose tinted view of the OS and it's user friendliness. And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
Linux powerusers will do something stupid to their own system with sudo and then say Linux isn't ready for normies because you need sudo in order to fix it
So then what's the fucking difference if they're bitching about their issues with Windows versus bitching about their issues with Linux? Doesn't that bring us back to the original post? Let people complain. If they're going to have issues either way and bitch either way, why the fuck do you have to evangelize them to get them to shut up about the ones you're ideologically opposed to? What are you really doing other than having them bitch about something you feel happy about? You haven't materially made their life better, they still have computer issues they hate, but now they just have a smaller number of people they can turn to for help. Great job.
I'm not pretending anything. I literally did what I said and gave it to my grandma and I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away. This worked well for 10 years or so until she died.
Im not saying people don't have issues with Linux. It's still a computer.
Are you saying people don't run into issues using windows?
If you need windows for very specific thjngs, I get it. But for most people, if they had a local PC shop that they could trust with Linux issues, then it would be as convenient as windows if not more.
I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away.
...is vastly different than what first post suggested, and literally ignored the major point of my original post which was that most people simply don't have the time to figure it out and most also don't have a Linux-repair-guy on hand. Talk about shifting goalposts here.
Of course people have issues on Windows, that's why they're always bitching about it. You don't think someone who likes to bitch wouldn't bitch to their Linux-repair-guy when they had Linux issues?
And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
I didn't realize we were sending gay kids off to camps to be given electroshock therapy.
I've handed noobs Linux machines and they use them just fine, they understand how to open the browser and steam and thats basically 90% of what they need the PC for. They aren't power users and aren't installing anything else from what I've seen. I gave a bazzite machine to a cousin about four months ago and she's just happy to play some hello Kitty game she didn't have on her switch.
I have a buddy on discord who works in IT and works on Linux servers a lot too and he basically said the same thing, that Linux isnt good for genpop, but like, I'm genpop and I found it much simpler than dealing with windows all the time. I tell him all the time too, like I'm not sure what he thinks is so difficult about it, I just login and open Firefox, then close it and shut my PC down. From time to time I edit photos and play games on steam. I'm not building ai models or anything crazy, heck I haven't even changed the desktop wallpaper because I'm not on the desktop long enough to care.
Isn't it funny how when a lot of people disagree with you it has become a hivemind, as opposed to a common consensus among individuals that you are wrong? What a fantastic term to avoid actually reconsidering your opinion or actually listening to someone else's point of view.
"Could there be multiple people who disagree with me?
No, it's the hivemind who is wrong."
You don't have to know much. It'd be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it's not a whole as master class or anything.
Maybe they do. I work with users directly and yeah most are not willing to learn if it's framed that way, but they all do learn. They learn quirks of the OS and installed programs over time because their jobs demand it.
If you search "how to install Linux" or "how to install an OS" you'll be met with a shit ton of documentation and videos on YouTube with plenty to go off of, followed by comments of people that have already had the problems and questions you've had. Only when you get to truly complex things will you start to have a harder time researching your issue.
It's just a matter of will and circumstances. All of the people that work in the parts of European government that are switching over to Linux will undoubtedly learn, the same way they've had to learn windows and windows based programs/installers.
The reason I know how to install an OS is likely the same reason anyone else does. Problem occurred on windows years ago, after reading enough about the problem, discovered its best to reinstall Windows, searched how to reinstall Windows, and after windows shitting the bed more than once on my PCs and friends and families, it's a learned skill that I've developed out of necessity for what I or they were trying to do.
The same applies on the other side of the fence, that's all I'm really trying to say here. It's the same problems (aside from enshittification, selling user data, etc.) with slightly different solutions.
Accessibility point aside, just because I can't speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don't fix their own shit on Linux aren't fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don't do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don't troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don't even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That's what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that's why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn't ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it's my job to do it, that's my main driver for using Linux is so I don't feel like I'm at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I'm pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn't ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they're not ready for? They'll complain either way when shit doesn't work.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it's the least "techie" OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about "needing to take courses" was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
Very easy to use... once up and running. But there are other distros out there (Bazzite comes to mind as a good example) that "Just work" on a level even Macs can't approach. Installation is the only "complicated" part but I'm sure we'll see some manufacturers installing Bazzite by default in good time.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They're out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you're using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism't working.
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don't like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
We need some repair cafe type setup where linux nerds get to set up linux on people's machines.
Nah, it will never work. Grandma Esthel is gonna get Arch Linux on her 20yo machine and everyone is gonna be unhappy still.
I hear you, but in a lot of these cases the people with complaints are not competent. Anyone who has worked helpdesk or adjacent has seen boatloads of 'em. Imagine I'm an oldie or fool or even grew up without electrical power and I barely know how a computer works. I don't really want to work with them and I think turning the monitor on and off is a reboot. Windows is horrible with all this bloat and AI and so much confusing shit but usability-wise it makes some sense I guess. I could do with a change but I can't do anything confusing or outside of my limited range. I'm probably not installing a good distro. I am not partitioning a drive. I am not creating a bootable USB. What do I do?
The only option here is to have them go out on a limb and buy a machine online pre-installed with Linux or have someone else set it up, right?
Not literally, of course. But if you don't have the baseline level of skill to exist in a technological society without being absolutely reamed by predatory corporations and other scammers and also refuse help to learn how to defend yourself, at some point that's a "you" problem and you deserve to fucking lose.
No but genuinely I resonate with this answer so much. Imagine if you needed to pass a computer literacy test to own any sort of "smart" device/computer and needed a license to operate it. It would eliminate so many scam call centers and would make so many IT teams work load decrease 10x. Imagine the complete LACK of mis/disinformation on the internet. Sometimes i wish that were the world we were in.
While I agree with the "fuck 'em" attitude to a certain extent I'm not sure that should apply to the entire gradient of differently abled. A lot of people who are mentally infirm have to continue to work in this hellscape and may have real roadblocks preventing learning about 'puters and the interweb and there's not a whole lot of resources anyway for people who don't live in the city. But yeah I don't expect a magic answer. Your GIF might actually be the best way haha.
You can empathise without being self righteous about it.
Oh, that sucks. I haven't had that problem, as I don't use windows.
You could be a Mac user, you might use Linux. Who knows. You're still making them aware there are other options.but often when people tell you to ditch windows for Linux, they are suggesting a huge migration for a small problem. The issue with windows is the hundreds of small problems and the privacy.
Recite the GPL in its entirety over a bag of Fritos a la the Eucharist. The Fritos will transsubstantiate into that thing he ate off his foot that one time.
are you saying ms is not invading users' privacy by scanning all their files, contents included, it possible? while also removing more and more control options over how the system runs
Every professional Windows admin feels this in their bones. I hate Windows and Microsoft more than most of you ever could. Still gotta work with it unless the CIO gets the green light to rebuild the whole company's infrastructure, commission at least one enterprise solution from scratch, and probably get fired in the process.
I still remember all the time I sunk trying to remove candy crush soda saga from the enterprise windows 10 image I cloned to all office computers back when I worked IT. That shit was basically a part of the core OS.
I did in fact get fired shortly after rebuilding all the on prem servers to be linux and introducing Linux mini-PCs which could be used to rdp into windows cloud pcs.
That was the last time I had to work as a windows admin so it was great to get fired and move onto full time Linux work.
I have a fundamental problem with this attitude. If you recognize there's a problem, and the problem disturbs you, and you CAN fix it, why not fix it? It's not world hunger, it's a computer for God's sakes. Maybe I don't want to hear people complain about problems that are 100% within their control and refuse to fix it.
Not about GNU/Linux. Just my thoughts on complaining about simple problems with easy solutions.
If you recognize there's a problem, and the problem disturbs you, and you CAN fix it, why not fix it?
Because if the fix for any particular problem is to learn a new OS, that's a steep cost for things that can just be minor annoyances. If you're in Lemmy, chances are you're comfortable with nerdy shit, and not everyone is.
On top of that, Linux has its own quirks, so it's not a panacea. There's no easy way for me to change scroll speed on a track pad in fedora/gnome, for example.
I installed Mint on my MIL computer. I did not have to spend time teaching her anything. People are able to switch from Windows to Apple no problem but for some reason Linux is
Sunk cost though. You spent the time learning Windows. At least Linux is far more likely to be an enduring skill that won't try to monetise your time investment by trying to balance enshittifying your experience the perfect amount just enough that you don't jump ship.
With that attitude, nothing is free. And the "free" in free and open-source means free as in free speech, not as in free beer. Your comment is also generally disrespectful to the people who invest actual time into creating the software that you rely on everyday and take for granted. FOSS software is deployed all over the world and there is no software environment that does not make use of it in some form, not even MS Windows. So you think the time of the people who put their skills to use for the betterment of computing overall is worthless? You guys do not even begin to understand how many resources and how much thought is expended by strangers for your comfort.
I reply "just use Linux" because I'm hoping for the one in a million chance that your boss reads the thread and goes "what's Linux?" and then decides to switch your company to Linux.
Boss told me I couldn't use EndeavourOS because "it doesn't work with M$ InTune".
So I said if I could make an old unused laptop work with that setup, maybe the company could turn that into a pilot system and we could be more sexy to new developers we want to hire.
Boss said why not. IT said sure, here's your laptop, have fun.
A few months later, a couple of devs have switched to Linux. Some have kept Windows. Some didn't care because they have Macs. Everyone's happy, we have more options, and everyone can choose what they subjectively feel is the best tool for the job - which is what professionals do instead of fighting.
Boss told me I couldn't use EndeavourOS because "it doesn't work with M$ InTune".
That's technically not true, it will work but with the caveat that Intune will show the device as non-compliant for the OS itself. If the OS version isn't included in any of the applied policies then it shouldn't matter.
You're right, but I did manage to make the device show up as a compliant Linux laptop in their Intune UI, and that was all that mattered to them.
They don't care that you have to make Intune think the distro is Ubuntu when it's in fact EndeavourOS. Some necktie people were satisfied with the result and devs can now use Linux. Après moi, le déluge.
The necktie people's understanding of tech is probably limited to "green good red bad" while looking at spreadsheets. It's better if they don't know about whatever wizardry you performed.
More like the "if you use STILL use windows don't bitch about it because weve all been there and are over it" community. Like i dont know what it is with windows users that you all wanna have your obesity support group and complain about your problems to everyone but then get pissed off when people say exercise and eat less. Thats not even a good example because theres plenty of reasons beyond a persons control why they might be obese. But i bet even the people with thyroid issues get annoyed when the guy who eats ten cheeseburgers says "my knees hurt all the time and nothing helps"
Your comment also made me realise just how many posts I have seen complaining about non-linux users not using Linux, but how few I have seen complaining about using windows or w/e. Was the same on reddit and the same here now.
Yeah, I have had several people automatically assume I use Windows, and I don't as my daily machine. I couldn't give two flips about MS, really.
I don't even dislike Linux. But a lot of these users here, man, just woof. A lot of these folks will point fingers and say Mac people are all Mac zombies and that's bad, but then turn around and kiss that grainy photo of Linus Torvalds where he's standing in front of an old, shitty computer.
People trying to shame us encouraging people switching to a OS that respects our privacy from the shit show Microsoft has become makes me roll my eyes every single time.
We pass so much of our time in front of a screen. Why not do it while retaining our freedom as much as we can? Sure, if you must use it for work, it is what it is, but Linux is definitely something worth learning using no matter what your technical level is.
If you can navigate through Windows with some degree of confidence, you absolutely can use Linux effectively. You can go full GUI no problem if you want to.
Linux is so easy nowaday. Yeah, some niche things might require some digging around, but that's nothing compared to the bullshit you have to accept from Microsoft.
If it's not for work, I'm sorry but use Linux or stop bitching. The correct answer will always be don't use the trojan OS.
If i have to listen to people complain, then they can listen to the rational and obvious solution to their problem. It doesn't add anything of value you say? What value is there in your complaining? If i have to hear you bitch about something thats easily avoidable im gonna call yout out for it. It goes both ways.
I can bitch about win11 all i want. The only machine that runs it in our house is a laptop i've debloated and have to keep my hand I professionally as i support it for my job. "Use linux" is not a fucking solution here
Yes everyone can do whatever they want, thats the point. You don't get some special privilege that makes you immune to people offering you their opinion though. And id think you'd be as sick of the problems with windows and the people who actively choose to keep using it as anyone else.
People don't want solutions, they want to bitch endlessly and have a horde of strangers agree with them. Then they can also bitch about nothing improving!
People in my life get the benefit of "are you looking for solutions or are you looking for empathy?" Randos on the Internet don't get to use everyone else as free therapists.
Continue using windows no matter how fucked it gets, and continue feeling entitled to complain about it without anyone telling you what a dumb choice it is. Obviously.
Even if it were true that it's not a solution for most people, which is false but I'll play along, "it's not a solution for most people" is such a dumb response.
Only solutions that apply to "most people" should be allowed to be suggested? People in edge cases should just never have their problem solved? Huh??
Yeah like even the use cases suggested in the screenshot:
"Maybe theyre not a computer toucher and have no confidence touching computers" - great then someone should tell them how easy linux can be. My grandmas been using it happily for years and she couldnt tell you the difference between microsoft and google.
"Maybe they were perfectly happy using the OS before some new feature was added" - well new features are gonna keep bei g added, and theyre likely to be increasingly annoying and invasive, wouldnt it be great to have an alternative without that dumb 'feature'?
"Maybe they're stressed and don't have time" - i can reallu relate to this one, i remember how much stress windows' bullshit used to add to my life, im so glad i dont have to spend time or energy fixing or complaining about dumb windows problems anymore.
Understand that things aren't perfect, and complaining is cathartic. You don't need to fix everything that people complain about - if someone complains about their car, do you need a "solution"? I complain about my cat's annoying behaviours all the time, but there's no acceptable way to fix them.
So the position is "don't suggest a solution if it doesn't apply to most people" and also at the same time "a solution that applies for most people doesn't actually exist".
Seems like a really stupid and unproductive position to have, not to mention completely incorrect, because Linux actually is a solution for most people.
ITT: people who have never had to learn that sometimes when someone complains to you they are not solution oriented, and it genuinely just feels good to share something wry/ridiculous to bond over.
It's a good skill to pick up, folks. Definitely comes into play in relationships.
Be honest with yourselves; How many of you actually read this post and tried to make even the slightest effort to see where OP is coming from? The reaction to someone who's view was "Yes, I already know Linux is great but it can't be installed on my work PC so saying use Linux isn't actually helpful" being "I'm not your fucking therapist" is absurd. Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever?
I know it seems like it's not a big deal. You go online, act a little mean, and that's that. I love the internet, but unfortunately our poor use of it has cultivated a society where we no longer try to understand each other. I know people here are smart, even the ones I disagree with. So I really don't get the over the top reactions to a bland statement.
We create the world we live in through every action we take, no matter how small. Telling people they don't have the right to vent frustrations just to feel better isn't a kind thing to do. It's divisive to your own communities. If you want to live in a better world, be a better person. I feel like this is all just indicative of a much, much larger problem in society. It perfectly captures how callous we have all become. We forget somewhere on the other end of the screen there was a person with a valid perspective and point.
I know it comes across as preachy, but I am horrified by the state of the world and desperately want things to change. But we can't even behave ourselves on a dumb post about an operating system. And some of you want to talk about changing our economic structures when the real problem here is that none of us seem to have interpersonal skills anymore. I know this is just a very small example that ultimately doesn't matter much, but I see this kind of behavior everywhere for things that really matter.
Maybe I'm too soft, but being unnecessarily rude is nothing to be proud of, being unnecessarily kind is.
tl;dr: take a good long look at yourself and ask if you are giving the same level of understanding that you expect to receive from others (and you should expect it!)
Even those who don't know about the works of our lord and savior Linus, can still end up in Windows 11. We must spread the Good News so that as many as possible can be saved.
unfortunate but they will have other opportunities to hear about it. also, we should kinda treat things on a case by case basis on whether to let people vent their frustrations and move on or to offer solutions. but I'm pretty sure if someone is talking about their frustrations with windows online, they already know about Linux
I spend a lot of time talking to normies, and it turns out most of them have never even heard of Linux. When they ask "what's Linux?" I answer "You know how some computers use windows and some are macs? Those are operating systems. Linux is an operating system made by communist nerds. It's free, it's faster and it's not trying to steal your data, because communism is more efficient."
I have talked to them too but they are uninterested in switched operating systems. They don't have enough of an understanding about windows to be frustrated by it. Someone got mad because "well why don't you just use mac if you don't like windows?"
I guess I talk to cooler normies than you do. Many are open to change, but it won't come overnight. They need to keep being reminded. Familiarity bias will help them overcome mental inertia. "Oh, Linux, I've heard of that. Maybe I should look into it..."
That's a very fair point, my experience was very different than yours so that's where I'm coming from. Usually though if I want to convince someone to switch I start by addressing the big concerns like compatibility, which is way more helpful. But then again that's much easier to do when the conversation starts with the knowledge that the other party is very much aware of Linux
I'm not going to dive into explaining Wine the first time someone's ever heard of Linux. I start with the elevator pitch where everything's great: It's better because anyone can contribute code, so it's been improved by all the smartest nerds on the internet. Making your code a trade secret is an inefficient system, Linux is smarter. Simple arguments anyone can understand.
When the person thinks their own way into the problem: What do I do with all my windows apps? I give the answer: There's an app called Proton that can run any Windows software. It's better at running old windows software than Windows is. I'll help you install it.
This is a false equivalence. OP's post is saying that nobody, ever, should try to suggest Linux as an alternative to the problems- ethical, moral, or technical, with windows.
And your stance is 'Well that seems about right, because there might be a post or two out of dozens or even hundreds that's slightly mean."
My man, that has nothing to do with anything.
OP's post is basically saying "I want the internet to be all about me. I don't like seeing people suggest Linux, it should go away, I don't want to hear about it, and everyone should do as I say." and that's not a stance that should ever be supported.
You say 'are you giving people the same level of understanding you expect to receive from others' and it goes both ways. Guess what, I don't want to hear about people whining about how much Windows sucks ass for the hundred thousandth time when there are easy, better alternatives that they refuse to use. I'm not sitting here asking to be the main character of the internet though and demanding nobody ever talk about Windows problems ever again because 'they know what Windows is' or some nonsense like he is.
Like, I get the stance you're trying to come from here, and it's a laudable one, but you're falling for the old trick of 'well, different views from mine can be valid! We should consider them equally!'
And that's true... up to the point where that view is trying to quash other views. That's the only view you can't consider- is a view that attempts to eliminate other views. Paradox of tolerance (or contract of tolerance) in action. Used for a far sillier thing that usual, granted.
The reaction to "I'm not your fucking therapist" being "Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever" is just as absurd IMO (though some of these threads show that, yeah, some people think that).
The scenario described by OP is they're just complaining about something about Windows/iOS/whatever just to vent and these people come in thinking they're being helpful by mentioning an alternative. I've come to find that there's 2 (relevant) personality types; people who complain because it's cathartic, and people who complain because they want their problem solved. Linux users are overwhelmingly the latter. So, from their perspective, they see someone who is complaining yet expects people to just sit there and listen, hence the "I'm not your therapist" comment.
I don't think any of that is new, except for maybe the OS part. As a kid I remember seeing a bunch of interactions like this and it's always been much more a personality than a culture thing.
and before anyone says, yes I know it's just a silly Linux post but I see this kind of behavior everywhere and I'm tired of it. It isn't exclusive to silly Linux posts, it's a general mindset that seems to bleed into everything.
You raise a very good point. It's important we remember some more empathy and understanding when we turn toward the internet.
I think one of the biggest drivers of this problem is how all of our social medias and news constantly funnel us into context collapse. Even this post that we're commenting on. These posts of screenshots from other social medias are basically always more fuel for the context collapse fire.
I really thought when social media was gaining popularity and people were talking about how bad it could be back when I was a kid that it was just "old man yells at cloud." Same with short form video content like vine or tiktok. It seemed like they were just shitting on something because it was new and different and strange to them, but they were right all along.
you are also being divisive! we can criticize people's behavior without resorting to name calling and saying we should have nothing to do with them. They have their problems but I'm sure they are good people. Even good people are capable of doing bad thoughtless things sometimes, it's not black and white.
If you're referring to work software... then it's not your problem. Who cares if it works well?
"Hey, that 30 second task you asked about is taking 30 minutes instead because the software we are forced to use sucks"
They paid for the software, now let they either deal with the fact it's terrible or let them call the support center and ask for their help making the software work better. This "support" is often the entire reason they use to justify paying for the software, so go ahead, make use of it.
if you're using autodesk maya, its not easy to "just move over" to blender. projects don't just convert. I've been using mostly FOSS software my whole life, but even then, moving between FOSS stuff can be a pain sometimes.
ok so a couple things for the people in this thread:
sometimes, when people complain, they don’t want advice. they just want to vent their frustration. that’s ok. your advice is just gonna come off as annoying, especially
if they’ve heard it a billion times already. and trust me, if you’re on the fediverse and complain about windows or macos, you’ve heard "just use linux lol" before.
holy shit stop doing victim blaming. this goes for everything btw. like. stop. "lol your fault for using windows" shut up. if you’re already doing victim blaming for trivial stuff, i don’t trust you for when much more serious problems arise.
You're not a victim for using windows, you're a consumer. "I cant stop using windows because i have stockholm syndrome don't blame me" is like the most unhinged take ive heard so far and is super disrespectful to anyone whos actually been a victim of just about anything.
What I'm suggesting is that if we're going to pretend that consumers are never victims of company practices, then emeralddawn specifically should never, ever, ever complain about shrinkflation. Or $80 video games, as far as I'm concerned.
These are decent points, but if you would use Linux you would not have these problems! You would have different problems, but somehow blame others, like why didn't make X decent drivers for Linux, or why am I still forced to use Teams...
My takeaway from point 1 is to rephrase my advice as a complaint:
"Man, it sucks you have that problem with Windows. I've been struggling with a computer problem of my own actually. I've been getting really down down thinking about all the Windows users out there who just have no clue about how the power of Linux could change their lives for the better"
The main problem is that linux people are politically linux people, their morals and identity are strongly attached to their OS choice, and they have no social skills.
You can advocate for linux to windows people all you like, you just can't be annoying. A lot of linux people are really fucking annoying.
The comparison is the door-to-door evangelism, i.e., it's really easy to tell that that phrasing has an ulterior motive. Kinda like how "Netflix and chill" does not mean "let's watch Netflix."
Love how the post and comic are about listening to others and don't try to troubleshoot/solve their problem and 15% of people are like "absolutely not".
Its a hard balance to strike but suggesting linux does actually add something. Linux does not have a marketing team. People need to find out linux is an alternative somehow.
Yeah, the original post gives a false dichotomy. It's possible to sincerely let someone vent about Windows/iOS and also suggest Linux tactfully.
Responding "use Linux noob" on every post isn't helpful. But chatting with a coworker and hearing them out, then sharing about your own experience ("yeah, I finally got so fed up I tried Linux. Turns out it was super easy and I'm glad I switched!") is helpful and adding something.
There are a fair few troubleshooting things I've seen where I could have smugly pointed out a clever way Windows avoids the same problem or an easy way it provides to solve it, so it doesn't even always need the lol at the end. It's just an annoying thing to see when you're already annoyed at a disobedient computer, unless learning the technical details would be an interesting distraction, so should be saved for when you know your audience and know it's interesting.
Complaining about how you think other people shouldn't be allowed to complain is wild. Yes, actually we are all entitled to complain from time to time. And we should, it's good for us to vent. I hope you are able to break away from that horrible mindset, you should feel allowed to complain.
"Solutions" that have already been dismissed as being impossible to do are not solutions.
Installing Linux on a work computer is not possible since you don't own the machine and it runs proprietary company software that just doesn't work on Linux.
Have you considered that complaining was a solution? It makes people feel a little better to talk about things that bother them. I think this matters a lot more to you than other people. Why completely switch operating systems if a bit of venting is all you need? Who's gonna go through that trouble? The reaction everyone is having is as though battered sobbing windows users come crying and begging for help because their computers beat them. It's really not that deep. Not to them at least. None of this has been a normal response to someone saying sometimes they want to complain about a minor problem they face. There are people saying "I'm not your therapist" as if someone saying they don't like their OS is practically treating them like a therapist. Maybe we can all be a little bit nicer to each other? I thought people on Lemmy were more or less on the same side of things but everyone seems to treat each other like an enemy here too. It is beyond disappointing
Some times you can't fix the problem but need help to work within. Or work around. And how much have you done on your own. Without help. Not one little bit with something your not a 100 percent versed in.... Fuck off.
I'm not these people's goddamn therapist and I'm not being paid to validate their whining. If they come to me with their complaints and then don't care for the response they get, they can fuck off!
The inverse of this should also be true. Just because my game occasionally takes a minute to get set up as I try one or two different versions of proton doesn't mean I want to be told to switch to windows so I can get my data mined further.
I think this almost articulates how I feel about the whole thing. Absolutely, the world will be a better place once everyone moves to Linux, but the Linux community sometimes has a hard time with not coming off like pedantic, high horsing assholes.
Not saying there's not great resources or welcoming communities out there, but the just use Linux crowd doesn't look like any fun.
that’s very cool and good job to anyone who managed this, but they’re all either 10 years old, have a bunch of broken essential features, or both… not exactly an iOS replacement
Yep, but if you complain and try NOTHING else what do you expect people to answer with?
If i answer with "try linux" i do it for helping you, also, you can ignore my reply too and go on, sometimes i even get insults or mockery for answering questions about Linux, i don't get why people need to be rude about this.
People are lazy. They don't want to put in any effort at all. They just go "well I have nothing to hide any way" or they get mad at the person calling out their laziness. Happens all the time. People get mad at vegans, Greta Thunberg, Cyclists, Linux Users, etc.
You know what? That's a fair point. After all, if they're happily running Linux they're no one's problem. If they're unhappily running Windows, they're Microsoft's problem.
Sounds like something that would be fixed by using Linux. Can't reply "use Linux" to you if you're already doing it. And now, the fun begins, because you have an issue, already use Linux, and those smug posters now have to help you, but you can't really tell what a distribution is, or what the message was, and typing commands is really obscure so you're becoming their rock of Sisyphus of online tech support.
Note: the above is an exaggeration of a lot of things. Be mindful of others.
Wasn't this used to be most famous republican rhetoric as well?
"Economy is getting worse but taxing rich is stupid and minimum wage is stupid and stopping monopolies is stupid so we should just not do anything instead."
I tried switching to Linux twice and both times I got hit with problems I was unable to fix even with help. So, even though I hate Microsoft, I'll stick with Windows for now.
I have no love for Windows (and active hatred for Apple), and I highly value much of the features, customizability, open-source culture, and anti-capitalist aspects of Linux. But it's not perfect.
I'm a software engineer. I part pick and build my PCs. I've worked in IT. And I manage my home networking and automate my self-hosted media server. But when I tried fully switching to Linux a few years back, I held out for a few months, but it just wasn't worth the hassle. My PC had an Nvidia graphics card, and I had no choice but to use a wifi dongle at my previous residence. Support for both was an after market hack job that needed constant maintenance. It was just annoying, my monitor's resolution just dropping to 480p and the internet cutting out until I reapplied some patch job.
If I had built my PC with Linux in mind, I would have done it differently. And I'm sure that I'll try again with my next PC when I can pick compatible hardware. But my point is that I'm far from the layman and still didn't stick with it the first time. The average computer user doesn't need a project, doesn't need highly customizable everything, and doesn't care about open source. They need things to just work. And I know the problem is the lack of Linux support from major tech companies, which is BS. But that means that Linux simply can't provide that stability and just work for a more casual user. So it is not the best option for most people.
Oh, I would guess this was the proprietary module not being loaded properly for the new kernel after the update. That's not something you should have to deal with :/
would recommand using (another) linux to fix it though
I endure Windows on my work computer because it's not my computer. I also don't like when people complain about solvable problems and contribute time and money to a company that should have been forcibly liquidated in the late 90's.
tl:dr use Linux or I will crawl into your bedroom and suck your toes while you're asleep.
Personally, It is not that I’m not open, it’s that I don’t have the time between work and household. And most of my problems are my work computer/services, which uses cloud everything…I have no control over that. Otherwise I wouldn’t know what to start with. I still need to connect to those same cloud services when I work from home. I really only turn my computer on to play things on steam or have 3 monitors for my spreadsheets. What do you suggest?
Some people can't switch to Linux, whether it's some games that require wine (fuck UWP apps), or using it on a work or school computer, they have to use windows.
Even if someone is just more comfortable with windows and would like to stick with that, its best to leave them.
This just reeks of right wing anti-intellectualism. People actually offering solutions are vilified because they're sometimes rude or annoying. Grow up, and learn to ignore people you want to ignore. Not everyone will bow down to your whims. You wanna complain, fine, some will respond with solutions. If you don't want that, ignore them. It's not very hard.
Yeah it's tiring. It seems especially prevalent on Lemmy, way more than I've ever seen anywhere else for some reason.
Like, I use Linux for all sorts of things, it's great, but there are plenty of situations I use other stuff in too. Open your mouth around these folks though and all they say is "hurrdur use Linux".
You know whats also tiring? Hearing people whine about easily avoidable problems that only occur because they insist on being tethered to a corporation that likes nothing more than fucking them over for profit. Whats the use in your complaining? Its fucking annoying. If you insist on using windows despite all available evidence at least shut the fuck up about it or learn to live with the people who think you're an idiot telling you so.
I'm looking at the issues that I face with Linux, which mostly are related to companies not willing to make drivers, nor allowing other people to make open source drivers..
Then I look over my shoulder and see people working on windows, and I just know that my problems are nothing
Maybe it's a work computer and it's not their choice.
Than complain to IT, not to me.
Maybe they're not a computer toucher and do not have confidence touching computers.
When someone tells you to install Linux and reply that you don't know how, they're often willing to help.
Maybe they were perfectly happy using these OSs before some stupid new feature was introduced.
That is a perfect reason why they didn't have to use Linux, but do have to use it now.
Maybe they're tired or stressed or have no time.
In that case, they're probably not a gamer, which is the best reason not to switch to Linux. Also, when you buy a new computer, it is probably faster and less stressful to install Linux, than Windows 11 (assuming you want a usable win11, with most spyware disabled).
I'm not going to complain to IT for a company policy change that essentially bricks my computer since it won't be able to use the company software anymore.
And they are not complaining to you, they are complaining to the internet.
If your only answer is "use Linux" then keep that dumb option to yourself.
Unless you enjoy getting answers to change to Windows every time you complain about some driver breaking on Linux. But I doubt you do.
Been a while since I've actually used it (like, a decade or more) and i could not in good conscious recommend utilizing the google ecosystem, but for the average person chromeOS is plenty. Easily locked down to keep grandparents relatively secure, basic office software in a browser.
My fiance always tells me how much she hates me complaining about things and not doing anything to improve it, and i think that's a fair point. She has had to continuously tend for herself, fighting health care, education system and society to get by. And that really made me understand that complaining without doing anything is both priveleged and stupid. I have more respect towards others than trying to force Linux down their throats, but just complaining and ignoring a solution, even if all the circumstances line up perfectly, is just dumb. Complaining is justified, not doing anything or pretending you can't is not. That being said, the Linux community is obnoxious and, in many cases, has the worst case of superiority complex, although i do believe we have gotten way better at that and are way more welcoming now than before.
I think the problem is worse. People tell me I should hate Microsoft and should be complaining. I'm no fan, but its just part of my life. Its got issues, but rarely does it interupt the busyness of my life. I'm ambivalent about Microsoft. They are not very different from the vast majority of global corporations.
I'm going to say this clearly, this comment is not an invitation to tell me how I should hate Microsoft.
-3
Sometimes people like to complain about windows and iOS | Spyke
Right. I spent the last several hours trying to get a mixed batch of Win10, Win11, and Win10-upgraded-from-8 computers to talk to a printer and had just about enough of this argument. If you want a pissing match of who can be the biggest dick, take it to Twitter.
Locked.
But like - use Linux?
My employer keeps saying I can't do this
Oh easy. Just use Linux
time to rice a linux to camoflague the desktop. as long as it looks like windows theyll not see the difference right
I trick Windows-only vendor programs in the exact same way
Just dropping this here: https://gitgud.io/wackyideas/aerothemeplasma/
https://macrohard-winux.github.io/
I solved this by using Linux anyway and being way more productive than other folks.
Keep asking, keep telling colleagues about it. Be kind. Change is a process.
Doubt they are going to replace tons of proprietary software costing thousands of dollars because some nerd on the internet told them to.
CERN is doing exactly this: https://home.cern/news/news/computing/three-year-malt-project-comes-close
Governments in Europe from local to state are doing it as well: https://eu-os.eu/ https://gitlab.opencode.de/sh
Many companies already allow Macs to used at work. The same process applies to Linux.
If I had a dollar for every $10k my company paid Microsoft...
Overthrow that guy, he is clearly unqualified. Power to the people.
Then complain about it
There's only so much incessant bitching I can hear about dark patterns, intrusive automatic updates, shoehorned-in and useless AI, zero user choice, planned obsolesence, and being blindsided by enshittification before I say "just try using the free thing that doesn't have those problems".
"I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas." If you have to for work or something, though, I totally get it and encourage the bitching.
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it "trying nothing" when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren't tech savvy at all, "Ain't nobody got the time for that!" is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It's like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don't have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain't nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
I gave my grandma a Linux, she had no idea. All she needed was a web browser that didn't feed her ads and give her issues. Fedora with KDE was super simple for her to figure out how to use and actually had better accessibility features for her. And it was free.
Linux is actually pretty noob friendly nowadays. And if you don't want to mess with it yourself, you can buy computers with Linux preinstalled today.
I get that sometimes people just want to complain and not solution. But like, using windows and other surveillance capitalism adjacent products is a path to fascism so like...maybe people should just, critically evaluate their problems and think of solutions every now and then?
Many distros of linux are easier to use than osx or windows.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with registry editor anymore.
I literally use Linux in my daily life non-stop. My desktop is free from Windows and I run numerous servers for various services and microservices.
I just fundamentally disagree with the hivemind that Linux desktop of any flavor is ready for casual user prime-time. Even if they don't have technical issues with now that doesn't mean they won't have technical issues with it ever. In my personal experience, I have only ever had successful long-term rollouts of non-gui cli-only servers. I have always had issues of some sort crop up with desktop Linux eventually.
Further, depending on the DE, getting things set up properly for someone who has, say, vision issues so everything is easily visible for them can often be a fucking nightmare of numerous different config files for different parts of the GUI. Linux accessibility options are notoriously bad.
If you want to pretend Linux is a perfect solution for grandmas, go ahead, but as someone who is a Linux heavy user who doesn't even use Windows anymore and hasn't in a while I think that this attitude from Linux evangelists is deeply rooted in a rose tinted view of the OS and it's user friendliness. And yes I use the term evangelist for a fucking reason, and that is because you people are as fucking pushy about your ideology as evangelical Christians.
I always hate it when people talk about "eventual issues that people will encounter on Linux".
As if Windows doesn't have those of varying degrees. Usually because Microsoft pushes out an update that breaks things.
They have trained themselves to ignore it as just Windows.
When I used windows, I would have issues every other update.
With Linux it's like once a year, unless I do something stupid to my own system with sudo.
Pretty much my experience, though I didn't want to give the guy I was replying to any personal anecdotes lol.
Linux powerusers will do something stupid to their own system with sudo and then say Linux isn't ready for normies because you need sudo in order to fix it
So then what's the fucking difference if they're bitching about their issues with Windows versus bitching about their issues with Linux? Doesn't that bring us back to the original post? Let people complain. If they're going to have issues either way and bitch either way, why the fuck do you have to evangelize them to get them to shut up about the ones you're ideologically opposed to? What are you really doing other than having them bitch about something you feel happy about? You haven't materially made their life better, they still have computer issues they hate, but now they just have a smaller number of people they can turn to for help. Great job.
If the issue is just "my PC is becoming slow, it's full of annoying AI and i don't want X microft bullshit" reccomensing Linux will totally help tbf
I'm not pretending anything. I literally did what I said and gave it to my grandma and I hooked her up with a local computer repair guy that will do house calls and knows Linux because I live very far away. This worked well for 10 years or so until she died.
Im not saying people don't have issues with Linux. It's still a computer.
Are you saying people don't run into issues using windows?
If you need windows for very specific thjngs, I get it. But for most people, if they had a local PC shop that they could trust with Linux issues, then it would be as convenient as windows if not more.
...is vastly different than what first post suggested, and literally ignored the major point of my original post which was that most people simply don't have the time to figure it out and most also don't have a Linux-repair-guy on hand. Talk about shifting goalposts here.
Of course people have issues on Windows, that's why they're always bitching about it. You don't think someone who likes to bitch wouldn't bitch to their Linux-repair-guy when they had Linux issues?
I didn't realize we were sending gay kids off to camps to be given electroshock therapy.
This is the thing that had Balmer so disgusted with us in the 2000s…~
I've handed noobs Linux machines and they use them just fine, they understand how to open the browser and steam and thats basically 90% of what they need the PC for. They aren't power users and aren't installing anything else from what I've seen. I gave a bazzite machine to a cousin about four months ago and she's just happy to play some hello Kitty game she didn't have on her switch.
I have a buddy on discord who works in IT and works on Linux servers a lot too and he basically said the same thing, that Linux isnt good for genpop, but like, I'm genpop and I found it much simpler than dealing with windows all the time. I tell him all the time too, like I'm not sure what he thinks is so difficult about it, I just login and open Firefox, then close it and shut my PC down. From time to time I edit photos and play games on steam. I'm not building ai models or anything crazy, heck I haven't even changed the desktop wallpaper because I'm not on the desktop long enough to care.
Isn't it funny how when a lot of people disagree with you it has become a hivemind, as opposed to a common consensus among individuals that you are wrong? What a fantastic term to avoid actually reconsidering your opinion or actually listening to someone else's point of view.
"Could there be multiple people who disagree with me?
No, it's the hivemind who is wrong."
You don't have to know much. It'd be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it's not a whole as master class or anything.
Maybe they do. I work with users directly and yeah most are not willing to learn if it's framed that way, but they all do learn. They learn quirks of the OS and installed programs over time because their jobs demand it.
If you search "how to install Linux" or "how to install an OS" you'll be met with a shit ton of documentation and videos on YouTube with plenty to go off of, followed by comments of people that have already had the problems and questions you've had. Only when you get to truly complex things will you start to have a harder time researching your issue.
It's just a matter of will and circumstances. All of the people that work in the parts of European government that are switching over to Linux will undoubtedly learn, the same way they've had to learn windows and windows based programs/installers.
The reason I know how to install an OS is likely the same reason anyone else does. Problem occurred on windows years ago, after reading enough about the problem, discovered its best to reinstall Windows, searched how to reinstall Windows, and after windows shitting the bed more than once on my PCs and friends and families, it's a learned skill that I've developed out of necessity for what I or they were trying to do.
The same applies on the other side of the fence, that's all I'm really trying to say here. It's the same problems (aside from enshittification, selling user data, etc.) with slightly different solutions.
I gotcha, and yeah, most people avoid learning at all costs, it's kind of insane.
https://lemmy.world/post/37909826/20160181
Accessibility point aside, just because I can't speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don't fix their own shit on Linux aren't fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don't do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don't troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don't even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That's what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that's why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn't ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it's my job to do it, that's my main driver for using Linux is so I don't feel like I'm at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I'm pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn't ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they're not ready for? They'll complain either way when shit doesn't work.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it's the least "techie" OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about "needing to take courses" was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
I use Arch as my daily driver and it is absurd how easy it is to use.
Updating all drivers and programs and the system updates in one command is so awesome and convenient.
yaysudo pacman -Syu
I don't really use yay much.
Very easy to use... once up and running. But there are other distros out there (Bazzite comes to mind as a good example) that "Just work" on a level even Macs can't approach. Installation is the only "complicated" part but I'm sure we'll see some manufacturers installing Bazzite by default in good time.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They're out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you're using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism't working.
"Uh, I bought my computer from Alienware. I don't know what a GPU is."
I do not accept this idea that people are so unskilled at computers they can't install Linux, and are so immutably so they can't get better.
Like yeah sometimes you have to ask for help or watch a YouTube video. That shit's free and right there.
They definitely exist, but it feels like stubbornness at that point. It absolutely isn't a lack of capability, it's a lack of willingness.
Getting around people's lack of willingness is the only way the year of the linux desktop will ever happen.
Like with global warming, people can just choose not to, you know.
It's learned helplessness
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don't like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
We need some repair cafe type setup where linux nerds get to set up linux on people's machines.
Nah, it will never work. Grandma Esthel is gonna get Arch Linux on her 20yo machine and everyone is gonna be unhappy still.
I feel like so many people are basing their opinion of Linux on outdated ideas of what it can and can't do.
There are distros that are incredibly fucking simple and stable. Easier and faster to set up than Windows.
So get skilled.
I hear you, but in a lot of these cases the people with complaints are not competent. Anyone who has worked helpdesk or adjacent has seen boatloads of 'em. Imagine I'm an oldie or fool or even grew up without electrical power and I barely know how a computer works. I don't really want to work with them and I think turning the monitor on and off is a reboot. Windows is horrible with all this bloat and AI and so much confusing shit but usability-wise it makes some sense I guess. I could do with a change but I can't do anything confusing or outside of my limited range. I'm probably not installing a good distro. I am not partitioning a drive. I am not creating a bootable USB. What do I do?
The only option here is to have them go out on a limb and buy a machine online pre-installed with Linux or have someone else set it up, right?
Not literally, of course. But if you don't have the baseline level of skill to exist in a technological society without being absolutely reamed by predatory corporations and other scammers and also refuse help to learn how to defend yourself, at some point that's a "you" problem and you deserve to fucking lose.
No but genuinely I resonate with this answer so much. Imagine if you needed to pass a computer literacy test to own any sort of "smart" device/computer and needed a license to operate it. It would eliminate so many scam call centers and would make so many IT teams work load decrease 10x. Imagine the complete LACK of mis/disinformation on the internet. Sometimes i wish that were the world we were in.
While I agree with the "fuck 'em" attitude to a certain extent I'm not sure that should apply to the entire gradient of differently abled. A lot of people who are mentally infirm have to continue to work in this hellscape and may have real roadblocks preventing learning about 'puters and the interweb and there's not a whole lot of resources anyway for people who don't live in the city. But yeah I don't expect a magic answer. Your GIF might actually be the best way haha.
Boomerism is not a mental illness they just don't understand computers
Just don't hire incompetent people then
The year of the Linux Desktop doesn't happen when people shut up about Linux.
You can empathise without being self righteous about it.
Oh, that sucks. I haven't had that problem, as I don't use windows.
You could be a Mac user, you might use Linux. Who knows. You're still making them aware there are other options.but often when people tell you to ditch windows for Linux, they are suggesting a huge migration for a small problem. The issue with windows is the hundreds of small problems and the privacy.
What's the value in being unclear?
It’s not about being unclear, it’s about making a human connection instead of pushing an agenda.
"have you considered using Linux" can be said as someone genuinely trying to help. An OS isn't a fucking agenda.
Hail
Kal Ort Por
Just use Linux.
A danish heritage moment.
I use Arch by the way
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our lord and saviour, Linus Torvalds?
Allow me to interject for a moment to talk about our holy father Richard Stallman...
Recite the GPL in its entirety over a bag of Fritos a la the Eucharist. The Fritos will transsubstantiate into that thing he ate off his foot that one time.
Perhaps you'd be more interested to meet our dapper mascot...
Xenia?
Curse you, filthy heretic!
It's the nail in the head all over again
How this same conversation can sound to non-technical folks:
"my boyfriend left his dirty socks in the living room AGAIN."
"Well maybe you should switch boyfriends"
".....what?"
Did Lemmy just compare using a computer to domestic abuse... really...
That's some out of touch bullshit. These are not comparable on any level. I get this is a meme section for Linux, but it's some out of touch bullshit.
This is the level of delusion the average Linux evangelist operates at.
Thinking you should leave an abusive boyfriend / girlfriend is delusional now?
Shh, just let them complain about their boyfriend.
This brings back bad memories lol
You mean from just now? Otherwise I don't get the reference
Thinking its as simple as "Just leave your boyfriend" is pretty fucking delusional, yeah.
are you saying ms is not invading users' privacy by scanning all their files, contents included, it possible? while also removing more and more control options over how the system runs
I feel like they're saying that what you described doesn't equate to do getting hit in the face by your boyfriend, which is subjective.
Every professional Windows admin feels this in their bones. I hate Windows and Microsoft more than most of you ever could. Still gotta work with it unless the CIO gets the green light to rebuild the whole company's infrastructure, commission at least one enterprise solution from scratch, and probably get fired in the process.
I'm genuinely shocked out often windows drivers have issues. Fuck you HP your services are not worth the money but you got upper management hooked.
I still remember all the time I sunk trying to remove candy crush soda saga from the enterprise windows 10 image I cloned to all office computers back when I worked IT. That shit was basically a part of the core OS.
I did in fact get fired shortly after rebuilding all the on prem servers to be linux and introducing Linux mini-PCs which could be used to rdp into windows cloud pcs.
That was the last time I had to work as a windows admin so it was great to get fired and move onto full time Linux work.
I have a fundamental problem with this attitude. If you recognize there's a problem, and the problem disturbs you, and you CAN fix it, why not fix it? It's not world hunger, it's a computer for God's sakes. Maybe I don't want to hear people complain about problems that are 100% within their control and refuse to fix it.
Not about GNU/Linux. Just my thoughts on complaining about simple problems with easy solutions.
Edit: typo
Literally read the post and just decided to ignore the two examples huh?
Because if the fix for any particular problem is to learn a new OS, that's a steep cost for things that can just be minor annoyances. If you're in Lemmy, chances are you're comfortable with nerdy shit, and not everyone is.
On top of that, Linux has its own quirks, so it's not a panacea. There's no easy way for me to change scroll speed on a track pad in fedora/gnome, for example.
I installed Mint on my MIL computer. I did not have to spend time teaching her anything. People are able to switch from Windows to Apple no problem but for some reason Linux is
”Linux is only free if your time is worthless” springs to mind.
Sunk cost though. You spent the time learning Windows. At least Linux is far more likely to be an enduring skill that won't try to monetise your time investment by trying to balance enshittifying your experience the perfect amount just enough that you don't jump ship.
With that attitude, nothing is free. And the "free" in free and open-source means free as in free speech, not as in free beer. Your comment is also generally disrespectful to the people who invest actual time into creating the software that you rely on everyday and take for granted. FOSS software is deployed all over the world and there is no software environment that does not make use of it in some form, not even MS Windows. So you think the time of the people who put their skills to use for the betterment of computing overall is worthless? You guys do not even begin to understand how many resources and how much thought is expended by strangers for your comfort.
Relax, it’s just a joke almost as old as Linux itself.
But using Linux is not a solution, that is the whole point of the post. Why can't you read?
I CAN NOT install a different OS on my work computer because I do not manage them and NONE of our company software works on Linux.
I'd get more use out of it if I just smash my computer with a brick than if I switched the OS to Linux.
I reply "just use Linux" because I'm hoping for the one in a million chance that your boss reads the thread and goes "what's Linux?" and then decides to switch your company to Linux.
That will never happen.
I can tell you from personal experience that you're wrong
Im happy to hear that.
If enough people bring it up to their work, then the policy can be re-evaluated.
I take it to the next level and rant at our CEO about it. We've actually saved a good amount of money with Linux.
Oh look, I found someone who didn't read the post
Boss told me I couldn't use EndeavourOS because "it doesn't work with M$ InTune".
So I said if I could make an old unused laptop work with that setup, maybe the company could turn that into a pilot system and we could be more sexy to new developers we want to hire.
Boss said why not. IT said sure, here's your laptop, have fun.
A few months later, a couple of devs have switched to Linux. Some have kept Windows. Some didn't care because they have Macs. Everyone's happy, we have more options, and everyone can choose what they subjectively feel is the best tool for the job - which is what professionals do instead of fighting.
And we actually hired a new dev who uses Linux.
That's technically not true, it will work but with the caveat that Intune will show the device as non-compliant for the OS itself. If the OS version isn't included in any of the applied policies then it shouldn't matter.
You're right, but I did manage to make the device show up as a compliant Linux laptop in their Intune UI, and that was all that mattered to them.
They don't care that you have to make Intune think the distro is Ubuntu when it's in fact EndeavourOS. Some necktie people were satisfied with the result and devs can now use Linux. Après moi, le déluge.
The necktie people's understanding of tech is probably limited to "green good red bad" while looking at spreadsheets. It's better if they don't know about whatever wizardry you performed.
Ok, now I'm actually curious how you managed to do that. Please do tell!
The fediverse is definitely a “I use Linux, please clap” kinda crowd.
Whereas Windows is the clap.
You're absolutely not wrong.
But I'm still gonna clap.
More like the "if you use STILL use windows don't bitch about it because weve all been there and are over it" community. Like i dont know what it is with windows users that you all wanna have your obesity support group and complain about your problems to everyone but then get pissed off when people say exercise and eat less. Thats not even a good example because theres plenty of reasons beyond a persons control why they might be obese. But i bet even the people with thyroid issues get annoyed when the guy who eats ten cheeseburgers says "my knees hurt all the time and nothing helps"
I don't use Windows.
For real tho
Your comment also made me realise just how many posts I have seen complaining about non-linux users not using Linux, but how few I have seen complaining about using windows or w/e. Was the same on reddit and the same here now.
Yeah, I have had several people automatically assume I use Windows, and I don't as my daily machine. I couldn't give two flips about MS, really.
I don't even dislike Linux. But a lot of these users here, man, just woof. A lot of these folks will point fingers and say Mac people are all Mac zombies and that's bad, but then turn around and kiss that grainy photo of Linus Torvalds where he's standing in front of an old, shitty computer.
Found the windows user
Nope.
Sir, this is a
Wendy'sLinux meme community.use linux
If I have to see you whining about windows, you have to see me shilling for linux.
/s
This but without the /s
People trying to shame us encouraging people switching to a OS that respects our privacy from the shit show Microsoft has become makes me roll my eyes every single time.
We pass so much of our time in front of a screen. Why not do it while retaining our freedom as much as we can? Sure, if you must use it for work, it is what it is, but Linux is definitely something worth learning using no matter what your technical level is.
If you can navigate through Windows with some degree of confidence, you absolutely can use Linux effectively. You can go full GUI no problem if you want to.
Linux is so easy nowaday. Yeah, some niche things might require some digging around, but that's nothing compared to the bullshit you have to accept from Microsoft.
If it's not for work, I'm sorry but use Linux or stop bitching. The correct answer will always be don't use the trojan OS.
Don’t care, use Linux.
It’s the ethical choice.
Don’t put yourself in the learned helplessness box
Imagine using Linux and it isn't Hannah Montana Linux.
I can't even.
The gall of you, thinking it's possible to improve upon perfection.
Hannah Montana Linux IS the internet
If i have to listen to people complain, then they can listen to the rational and obvious solution to their problem. It doesn't add anything of value you say? What value is there in your complaining? If i have to hear you bitch about something thats easily avoidable im gonna call yout out for it. It goes both ways.
I can bitch about win11 all i want. The only machine that runs it in our house is a laptop i've debloated and have to keep my hand I professionally as i support it for my job. "Use linux" is not a fucking solution here
Yes everyone can do whatever they want, thats the point. You don't get some special privilege that makes you immune to people offering you their opinion though. And id think you'd be as sick of the problems with windows and the people who actively choose to keep using it as anyone else.
— Me to somebody complaining about their depression.
And why do you need a debloated win11 machine when for example win10 would be sufficient or just Linux?
win10 is EOL and no longer meets the TPN requirements.
There is a great deal of mastering, transmission and other proprietary software our business requires that will not run correctly on Linux.
Next question.
The what?
Industry standard. Things people have to deal with in actual workplaces
If you're gonna be a dick, you might want to get the actual term right. It's TPM.
thank you, now that makes things more clear.
There is more value in complaining than there is in giving dumb "solutions".
Dumb "solutions" don't solve anything ever.
Complaining at least can lead to GOOD solutions.
As someone who switched to linux relatively recently... It's not a dumb solution at all. It's THE solution.
People don't want solutions, they want to bitch endlessly and have a horde of strangers agree with them. Then they can also bitch about nothing improving!
People in my life get the benefit of "are you looking for solutions or are you looking for empathy?" Randos on the Internet don't get to use everyone else as free therapists.
Don’t give me the solution waaaah!
It's not a solution for most people.
So, what would you say is a solution for "most people" that we should be suggesting, instead?
Continue using windows no matter how fucked it gets, and continue feeling entitled to complain about it without anyone telling you what a dumb choice it is. Obviously.
Even if it were true that it's not a solution for most people, which is false but I'll play along, "it's not a solution for most people" is such a dumb response.
Only solutions that apply to "most people" should be allowed to be suggested? People in edge cases should just never have their problem solved? Huh??
Yeah like even the use cases suggested in the screenshot: "Maybe theyre not a computer toucher and have no confidence touching computers" - great then someone should tell them how easy linux can be. My grandmas been using it happily for years and she couldnt tell you the difference between microsoft and google. "Maybe they were perfectly happy using the OS before some new feature was added" - well new features are gonna keep bei g added, and theyre likely to be increasingly annoying and invasive, wouldnt it be great to have an alternative without that dumb 'feature'? "Maybe they're stressed and don't have time" - i can reallu relate to this one, i remember how much stress windows' bullshit used to add to my life, im so glad i dont have to spend time or energy fixing or complaining about dumb windows problems anymore.
You think people are only suggesting it in cases where it's appropriate?
Understand that things aren't perfect, and complaining is cathartic. You don't need to fix everything that people complain about - if someone complains about their car, do you need a "solution"? I complain about my cat's annoying behaviours all the time, but there's no acceptable way to fix them.
There isn't a general solution to every problem, stop treating Linux like it is one.
You activated my trap card!
So the position is "don't suggest a solution if it doesn't apply to most people" and also at the same time "a solution that applies for most people doesn't actually exist".
Seems like a really stupid and unproductive position to have, not to mention completely incorrect, because Linux actually is a solution for most people.
Same mood when people complain about corpo media
I feel for them, but they should know they are making a choice by staying
But sir, this is a Linux community.
If you're complaining about windows on linuxmemes, I'm not sure it's rational to expect no one to mention linux.
ITT: people who have never had to learn that sometimes when someone complains to you they are not solution oriented, and it genuinely just feels good to share something wry/ridiculous to bond over.
It's a good skill to pick up, folks. Definitely comes into play in relationships.
Be honest with yourselves; How many of you actually read this post and tried to make even the slightest effort to see where OP is coming from? The reaction to someone who's view was "Yes, I already know Linux is great but it can't be installed on my work PC so saying use Linux isn't actually helpful" being "I'm not your fucking therapist" is absurd. Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever?
I know it seems like it's not a big deal. You go online, act a little mean, and that's that. I love the internet, but unfortunately our poor use of it has cultivated a society where we no longer try to understand each other. I know people here are smart, even the ones I disagree with. So I really don't get the over the top reactions to a bland statement.
We create the world we live in through every action we take, no matter how small. Telling people they don't have the right to vent frustrations just to feel better isn't a kind thing to do. It's divisive to your own communities. If you want to live in a better world, be a better person. I feel like this is all just indicative of a much, much larger problem in society. It perfectly captures how callous we have all become. We forget somewhere on the other end of the screen there was a person with a valid perspective and point.
I know it comes across as preachy, but I am horrified by the state of the world and desperately want things to change. But we can't even behave ourselves on a dumb post about an operating system. And some of you want to talk about changing our economic structures when the real problem here is that none of us seem to have interpersonal skills anymore. I know this is just a very small example that ultimately doesn't matter much, but I see this kind of behavior everywhere for things that really matter.
Maybe I'm too soft, but being unnecessarily rude is nothing to be proud of, being unnecessarily kind is.
tl;dr: take a good long look at yourself and ask if you are giving the same level of understanding that you expect to receive from others (and you should expect it!)
What if someone who's never heard of Linux reads the thread and misses an opportunity to hear about Linux?
Even those who don't know about the works of our lord and savior Linus, can still end up in Windows 11. We must spread the Good News so that as many as possible can be saved.
unfortunate but they will have other opportunities to hear about it. also, we should kinda treat things on a case by case basis on whether to let people vent their frustrations and move on or to offer solutions. but I'm pretty sure if someone is talking about their frustrations with windows online, they already know about Linux
I spend a lot of time talking to normies, and it turns out most of them have never even heard of Linux. When they ask "what's Linux?" I answer "You know how some computers use windows and some are macs? Those are operating systems. Linux is an operating system made by communist nerds. It's free, it's faster and it's not trying to steal your data, because communism is more efficient."
I have talked to them too but they are uninterested in switched operating systems. They don't have enough of an understanding about windows to be frustrated by it. Someone got mad because "well why don't you just use mac if you don't like windows?"
I guess I talk to cooler normies than you do. Many are open to change, but it won't come overnight. They need to keep being reminded. Familiarity bias will help them overcome mental inertia. "Oh, Linux, I've heard of that. Maybe I should look into it..."
That's a very fair point, my experience was very different than yours so that's where I'm coming from. Usually though if I want to convince someone to switch I start by addressing the big concerns like compatibility, which is way more helpful. But then again that's much easier to do when the conversation starts with the knowledge that the other party is very much aware of Linux
I'm not going to dive into explaining Wine the first time someone's ever heard of Linux. I start with the elevator pitch where everything's great: It's better because anyone can contribute code, so it's been improved by all the smartest nerds on the internet. Making your code a trade secret is an inefficient system, Linux is smarter. Simple arguments anyone can understand.
When the person thinks their own way into the problem: What do I do with all my windows apps? I give the answer: There's an app called Proton that can run any Windows software. It's better at running old windows software than Windows is. I'll help you install it.
This is a false equivalence. OP's post is saying that nobody, ever, should try to suggest Linux as an alternative to the problems- ethical, moral, or technical, with windows.
And your stance is 'Well that seems about right, because there might be a post or two out of dozens or even hundreds that's slightly mean."
My man, that has nothing to do with anything.
OP's post is basically saying "I want the internet to be all about me. I don't like seeing people suggest Linux, it should go away, I don't want to hear about it, and everyone should do as I say." and that's not a stance that should ever be supported.
You say 'are you giving people the same level of understanding you expect to receive from others' and it goes both ways. Guess what, I don't want to hear about people whining about how much Windows sucks ass for the hundred thousandth time when there are easy, better alternatives that they refuse to use. I'm not sitting here asking to be the main character of the internet though and demanding nobody ever talk about Windows problems ever again because 'they know what Windows is' or some nonsense like he is.
Like, I get the stance you're trying to come from here, and it's a laudable one, but you're falling for the old trick of 'well, different views from mine can be valid! We should consider them equally!'
And that's true... up to the point where that view is trying to quash other views. That's the only view you can't consider- is a view that attempts to eliminate other views. Paradox of tolerance (or contract of tolerance) in action. Used for a far sillier thing that usual, granted.
The reaction to "I'm not your fucking therapist" being "Do you believe there is truly not a single valid reason to use windows whatsoever" is just as absurd IMO (though some of these threads show that, yeah, some people think that).
The scenario described by OP is they're just complaining about something about Windows/iOS/whatever just to vent and these people come in thinking they're being helpful by mentioning an alternative. I've come to find that there's 2 (relevant) personality types; people who complain because it's cathartic, and people who complain because they want their problem solved. Linux users are overwhelmingly the latter. So, from their perspective, they see someone who is complaining yet expects people to just sit there and listen, hence the "I'm not your therapist" comment.
I don't think any of that is new, except for maybe the OS part. As a kid I remember seeing a bunch of interactions like this and it's always been much more a personality than a culture thing.
and before anyone says, yes I know it's just a silly Linux post but I see this kind of behavior everywhere and I'm tired of it. It isn't exclusive to silly Linux posts, it's a general mindset that seems to bleed into everything.
You raise a very good point. It's important we remember some more empathy and understanding when we turn toward the internet.
I think one of the biggest drivers of this problem is how all of our social medias and news constantly funnel us into context collapse. Even this post that we're commenting on. These posts of screenshots from other social medias are basically always more fuel for the context collapse fire.
I really thought when social media was gaining popularity and people were talking about how bad it could be back when I was a kid that it was just "old man yells at cloud." Same with short form video content like vine or tiktok. It seemed like they were just shitting on something because it was new and different and strange to them, but they were right all along.
True. I can say for certain that the community is the biggest dealbreaker for Linux for me.
I just don't want to be even associated with some of these mouth breathers, let alone call me one of them.
you are also being divisive! we can criticize people's behavior without resorting to name calling and saying we should have nothing to do with them. They have their problems but I'm sure they are good people. Even good people are capable of doing bad thoughtless things sometimes, it's not black and white.
The Linux community on Lemmy is not this at all. They're all super helpful.
Yes.
you have convinced me
I am very persuasive and very round
You should start a podcast, persuasive round people are good at those
Please get my Autodesk applications working for me oh sage one.
Uses proprietary software.
Complains when proprietary software limits your freedom.
its not always a choice what software you use
If you're referring to work software... then it's not your problem. Who cares if it works well?
"Hey, that 30 second task you asked about is taking 30 minutes instead because the software we are forced to use sucks"
They paid for the software, now let they either deal with the fact it's terrible or let them call the support center and ask for their help making the software work better. This "support" is often the entire reason they use to justify paying for the software, so go ahead, make use of it.
Either way, not your problem.
I know this sounds like a grand stand but it's just going to get your ass fired lol. Autodesk is an industry standard.
Fired for what? I didn't say refuse to do your job. I said don't waste any sleep if the software is bad.
if you're using autodesk maya, its not easy to "just move over" to blender. projects don't just convert. I've been using mostly FOSS software my whole life, but even then, moving between FOSS stuff can be a pain sometimes.
"I just want you to listen, stop trying to fix it!"
Its not the nail
More like "stop suggesting things that we do not have control over"
It is like suggesting switching to a parallel dimension just because you don't like the color of your shoes.
This has anti-S.P.E.W. don't-upset-the-slaves-they-normally-like-being-slaves vibes.
ok so a couple things for the people in this thread:
You're not a victim for using windows, you're a consumer. "I cant stop using windows because i have stockholm syndrome don't blame me" is like the most unhinged take ive heard so far and is super disrespectful to anyone whos actually been a victim of just about anything.
I would like to imagine you say these same things every single time grocery store packaging gets a little bit smaller.
Huh? I think I would just go for the better, cheaper (free?) alternative
Farmers markets?
What I'm suggesting is that if we're going to pretend that consumers are never victims of company practices, then emeralddawn specifically should never, ever, ever complain about shrinkflation. Or $80 video games, as far as I'm concerned.
But who knows. Perhaps they don't.
These are decent points, but if you would use Linux you would not have these problems! You would have different problems, but somehow blame others, like why didn't make X decent drivers for Linux, or why am I still forced to use Teams...
My takeaway from point 1 is to rephrase my advice as a complaint:
"Man, it sucks you have that problem with Windows. I've been struggling with a computer problem of my own actually. I've been getting really down down thinking about all the Windows users out there who just have no clue about how the power of Linux could change their lives for the better"
This makes you sound like a Jehova's witness.
The main problem is that linux people are politically linux people, their morals and identity are strongly attached to their OS choice, and they have no social skills.
You can advocate for linux to windows people all you like, you just can't be annoying. A lot of linux people are really fucking annoying.
Idk if that's a valid comparison... being a Jehovah's witness doesn't save you a penny in software licensing costs
They're just saying it sounds like them, not that it's the same thing. They believe they're saving your soul.
The comparison is the door-to-door evangelism, i.e., it's really easy to tell that that phrasing has an ulterior motive. Kinda like how "Netflix and chill" does not mean "let's watch Netflix."
Love how the post and comic are about listening to others and don't try to troubleshoot/solve their problem and 15% of people are like "absolutely not".
If people want to vent they should preface their rambling. Please most of us are on the autism spectrum.
More like 50%
Its a hard balance to strike but suggesting linux does actually add something. Linux does not have a marketing team. People need to find out linux is an alternative somehow.
Yeah, the original post gives a false dichotomy. It's possible to sincerely let someone vent about Windows/iOS and also suggest Linux tactfully.
Responding "use Linux noob" on every post isn't helpful. But chatting with a coworker and hearing them out, then sharing about your own experience ("yeah, I finally got so fed up I tried Linux. Turns out it was super easy and I'm glad I switched!") is helpful and adding something.
Just lead by example. Use Linux silently right in front of them, in public even. Make lingering eye contact as necessary.
Yeah, suggesting Linux to every computer problem makes users want to stay away from it.
Very good marketing, no wonder the year of Linux is around the corner.
Time to start responding to Linux posts with "Just use Windows, lol" xD
There are a fair few troubleshooting things I've seen where I could have smugly pointed out a clever way Windows avoids the same problem or an easy way it provides to solve it, so it doesn't even always need the lol at the end. It's just an annoying thing to see when you're already annoyed at a disobedient computer, unless learning the technical details would be an interesting distraction, so should be saved for when you know your audience and know it's interesting.
Whine all you want, doesn't mean I have to listen to it - especially if you're not going to listen to me.
Too fucking bad. You are not entitled to complain if you refuse to help yourself fix your problem.
Complaining about how you think other people shouldn't be allowed to complain is wild. Yes, actually we are all entitled to complain from time to time. And we should, it's good for us to vent. I hope you are able to break away from that horrible mindset, you should feel allowed to complain.
And in turn people are allowed to suggest solutions for your complaints
"Solutions" that have already been dismissed as being impossible to do are not solutions.
Installing Linux on a work computer is not possible since you don't own the machine and it runs proprietary company software that just doesn't work on Linux.
Have you considered that complaining was a solution? It makes people feel a little better to talk about things that bother them. I think this matters a lot more to you than other people. Why completely switch operating systems if a bit of venting is all you need? Who's gonna go through that trouble? The reaction everyone is having is as though battered sobbing windows users come crying and begging for help because their computers beat them. It's really not that deep. Not to them at least. None of this has been a normal response to someone saying sometimes they want to complain about a minor problem they face. There are people saying "I'm not your therapist" as if someone saying they don't like their OS is practically treating them like a therapist. Maybe we can all be a little bit nicer to each other? I thought people on Lemmy were more or less on the same side of things but everyone seems to treat each other like an enemy here too. It is beyond disappointing
And everyone else is entitled to criticize self-indulgent complaints as useless whining.
Some times you can't fix the problem but need help to work within. Or work around. And how much have you done on your own. Without help. Not one little bit with something your not a 100 percent versed in.... Fuck off.
Most people are capable of doing quite a lot on their own, even in subjects they are not "100 percent versed in"
I'm not these people's goddamn therapist and I'm not being paid to validate their whining. If they come to me with their complaints and then don't care for the response they get, they can fuck off!
If you think every image macro you come across is aimed at specifically you maybe its time to touch some grass
You aren't being paid to give IT advice either.
This is really bad advice, especially in relationships.
Cool cool, is the user in an abusive relation with windows? We are still talking about software here.
The thing I love about linux people is their inability to abstract or do any kind of analysis.
See also: white liberals in the US
The inverse of this should also be true. Just because my game occasionally takes a minute to get set up as I try one or two different versions of proton doesn't mean I want to be told to switch to windows so I can get my data mined further.
I think this almost articulates how I feel about the whole thing. Absolutely, the world will be a better place once everyone moves to Linux, but the Linux community sometimes has a hard time with not coming off like pedantic, high horsing assholes.
Not saying there's not great resources or welcoming communities out there, but the just use Linux crowd doesn't look like any fun.
They should know, it's only going to keep getting worse
replying with "use Linux" to complaints about iOS is especially funny to me
me omw to install Linux on my iphone
You jest but you'd be surprised
that’s very cool and good job to anyone who managed this, but they’re all either 10 years old, have a bunch of broken essential features, or both… not exactly an iOS replacement
I wasn't trying to say it was. Just sharing something i thought was cool.
Yep, but if you complain and try NOTHING else what do you expect people to answer with?
If i answer with "try linux" i do it for helping you, also, you can ignore my reply too and go on, sometimes i even get insults or mockery for answering questions about Linux, i don't get why people need to be rude about this.
Sorry for the rant
People are lazy. They don't want to put in any effort at all. They just go "well I have nothing to hide any way" or they get mad at the person calling out their laziness. Happens all the time. People get mad at vegans, Greta Thunberg, Cyclists, Linux Users, etc.
If you only count "installing Linux" as trying something, then maybe don't comment anything on the thread because it isn't for you.
I never said that i count only Linux genius.
If he also tried BSD, BSD derivates, or other OSes then maybe they have to try more or idk
Maybe they want to try TempleOS XD
It's often literally the only solution to the thing the person is complaining about
You know what? That's a fair point. After all, if they're happily running Linux they're no one's problem. If they're unhappily running Windows, they're Microsoft's problem.
And I like Microsoft experiencing problems.
Ok but have you tried linux?
Sounds like something that would be fixed by using Linux. Can't reply "use Linux" to you if you're already doing it. And now, the fun begins, because you have an issue, already use Linux, and those smug posters now have to help you, but you can't really tell what a distribution is, or what the message was, and typing commands is really obscure so you're becoming their rock of Sisyphus of online tech support.
Note: the above is an exaggeration of a lot of things. Be mindful of others.
Wasn't this used to be most famous republican rhetoric as well?
"Economy is getting worse but taxing rich is stupid and minimum wage is stupid and stopping monopolies is stupid so we should just not do anything instead."
Conservative ideology is essentially:
Just leave everything the way they were when I was born, regardless of whether or not improvements can be made.
Yeah ok, so use linux
No no, don't recommend Linux to a Mac user. Suggest other kids toys, like an etch-a-sketch or something.
This is a bad take. MacOS is still a unix based system, and is much closer to Linux than Windows. It even comes with bash and zsh shells.
The predatory pricing and business practices are a different topic, but the OS will feel right at home for most linux users.
I tried switching to Linux twice and both times I got hit with problems I was unable to fix even with help. So, even though I hate Microsoft, I'll stick with Windows for now.
I have no love for Windows (and active hatred for Apple), and I highly value much of the features, customizability, open-source culture, and anti-capitalist aspects of Linux. But it's not perfect.
I'm a software engineer. I part pick and build my PCs. I've worked in IT. And I manage my home networking and automate my self-hosted media server. But when I tried fully switching to Linux a few years back, I held out for a few months, but it just wasn't worth the hassle. My PC had an Nvidia graphics card, and I had no choice but to use a wifi dongle at my previous residence. Support for both was an after market hack job that needed constant maintenance. It was just annoying, my monitor's resolution just dropping to 480p and the internet cutting out until I reapplied some patch job.
If I had built my PC with Linux in mind, I would have done it differently. And I'm sure that I'll try again with my next PC when I can pick compatible hardware. But my point is that I'm far from the layman and still didn't stick with it the first time. The average computer user doesn't need a project, doesn't need highly customizable everything, and doesn't care about open source. They need things to just work. And I know the problem is the lack of Linux support from major tech companies, which is BS. But that means that Linux simply can't provide that stability and just work for a more casual user. So it is not the best option for most people.
The monitor resolution dropping is a new one to me, when was this?
It wouldn't just drop, like suddenly out of nowhere. It was on a kernel update. This was, I guess, 2018 or 2019? Can't remember exactly.
Oh, I would guess this was the proprietary module not being loaded properly for the new kernel after the update. That's not something you should have to deal with :/
would recommand using (another) linux to fix it though
Things have come a long way in the past 6-7 years
I'm sure they have. Just relaying my personal experience with it, though it may be outdated by now.
I endure Windows on my work computer because it's not my computer. I also don't like when people complain about solvable problems and contribute time and money to a company that should have been forcibly liquidated in the late 90's.
tl:dr use Linux or I will crawl into your bedroom and suck your toes while you're asleep.
But I want to use Linux.
I wish I could use Linux on my work laptop.
If you want to complain about your OS but are not open for alternatives then don't post your complaint. You are not adding anything
Personally, It is not that I’m not open, it’s that I don’t have the time between work and household. And most of my problems are my work computer/services, which uses cloud everything…I have no control over that. Otherwise I wouldn’t know what to start with. I still need to connect to those same cloud services when I work from home. I really only turn my computer on to play things on steam or have 3 monitors for my spreadsheets. What do you suggest?
Did you even read the post?
Some people can't switch to Linux, whether it's some games that require wine (fuck UWP apps), or using it on a work or school computer, they have to use windows.
Even if someone is just more comfortable with windows and would like to stick with that, its best to leave them.
Ah yes, get everyone's attention by complaining but punish those who try to help. If you wanna complain and not get a solution, do it offline.
I will keep pestering people who complain about Windows to install OpenSUSE instead.
This just reeks of right wing anti-intellectualism. People actually offering solutions are vilified because they're sometimes rude or annoying. Grow up, and learn to ignore people you want to ignore. Not everyone will bow down to your whims. You wanna complain, fine, some will respond with solutions. If you don't want that, ignore them. It's not very hard.
Says the person complaining about the fact their unsolicited opinions are not always wanted
By that reasoning, everything on the Internet is unsolicited. You complain and someone provides a solution. You should thank them for that!
I hereby solicit SexualPolytope's opinions about everything
Yeah it's tiring. It seems especially prevalent on Lemmy, way more than I've ever seen anywhere else for some reason.
Like, I use Linux for all sorts of things, it's great, but there are plenty of situations I use other stuff in too. Open your mouth around these folks though and all they say is "hurrdur use Linux".
Very helpful my guy, thanks xD
You know whats also tiring? Hearing people whine about easily avoidable problems that only occur because they insist on being tethered to a corporation that likes nothing more than fucking them over for profit. Whats the use in your complaining? Its fucking annoying. If you insist on using windows despite all available evidence at least shut the fuck up about it or learn to live with the people who think you're an idiot telling you so.
"Sometimes people just want to complain that the hot stove burns without being told to not touch it.
If the obvious reply to the post is 'take your hand off the stove', as a rule, do not post that. You are not adding anything."
The desktop share statistics say otherwise
but... use Unix.
I'm looking at the issues that I face with Linux, which mostly are related to companies not willing to make drivers, nor allowing other people to make open source drivers..
Then I look over my shoulder and see people working on windows, and I just know that my problems are nothing
But why wouldn't they just use Linux? Are they stupid?
This actually kills the average Lemmy user.
openBSD
I hope not that they are computer touchers...
please...
I just to want be safe and alone with my computer...
Oh no, who's knocking at this time?
Its the ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKyPtnuh8bM
You probably wouldn't need to have these incorrect opinions if you just started using Linux already.
Than complain to IT, not to me.
When someone tells you to install Linux and reply that you don't know how, they're often willing to help.
That is a perfect reason why they didn't have to use Linux, but do have to use it now.
In that case, they're probably not a gamer, which is the best reason not to switch to Linux. Also, when you buy a new computer, it is probably faster and less stressful to install Linux, than Windows 11 (assuming you want a usable win11, with most spyware disabled).
I'm not going to complain to IT for a company policy change that essentially bricks my computer since it won't be able to use the company software anymore.
And they are not complaining to you, they are complaining to the internet.
If your only answer is "use Linux" then keep that dumb option to yourself.
Unless you enjoy getting answers to change to Windows every time you complain about some driver breaking on Linux. But I doubt you do.
Been a while since I've actually used it (like, a decade or more) and i could not in good conscious recommend utilizing the google ecosystem, but for the average person chromeOS is plenty. Easily locked down to keep grandparents relatively secure, basic office software in a browser.
Sir, this is a meme comm.
Depends if the criticism is constructive, or asking for advice, or just a rant.
It's not about the nail https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg
It is a work computer and it is not my choice.
My fiance always tells me how much she hates me complaining about things and not doing anything to improve it, and i think that's a fair point. She has had to continuously tend for herself, fighting health care, education system and society to get by. And that really made me understand that complaining without doing anything is both priveleged and stupid. I have more respect towards others than trying to force Linux down their throats, but just complaining and ignoring a solution, even if all the circumstances line up perfectly, is just dumb. Complaining is justified, not doing anything or pretending you can't is not. That being said, the Linux community is obnoxious and, in many cases, has the worst case of superiority complex, although i do believe we have gotten way better at that and are way more welcoming now than before.
use trsdos
I think the problem is worse. People tell me I should hate Microsoft and should be complaining. I'm no fan, but its just part of my life. Its got issues, but rarely does it interupt the busyness of my life. I'm ambivalent about Microsoft. They are not very different from the vast majority of global corporations.
I'm going to say this clearly, this comment is not an invitation to tell me how I should hate Microsoft.