[White House] Designating Antifa as a Domestic Terrorist Organization
One more step toward authoritarian wet dreams.
![[White House] Designating Antifa as a Domestic Terrorist Organization](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bf248824-efea-489c-aa53-2d34117d0c30.jpeg)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/designating-antifa-as-a-domestic-terrorist-organization/Open linkView original on lemmy.zip629
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They know that Antifa isn’t real. This way they can call anything Antifa and it’s now a terrorist that has no human rights.
It's not about Antifa, it's about George Soros. Wait for it.
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/soros-conspiracy-theories-and-protests-gateway-antisemitism
White supremacists are so fucking stupid. And so fucking in charge of the USA.
The dogwhistle is just a bullhorn now.
Which is super weird because anti-jew but also like super pro- Israel
Israel is required to exist for some interpretations of Armageddon in the Bible. They hate them, but they need Israel to exist because it's central to moving forward with the end of the world and their gods cleansing of the forces of evil and the ushering in of a new world order.
So keep that fun fact in mind when you hear Christians being really pro Israel.
Christianity - A doomsday cult so committed to fulfilling prophecy that they'll kill all of us for the chance to prove their interpretation of God has a bigger dick than every other deity ever conceived. /s
To make it even more WTF, the religions they have the most issue with don't even have a different diety, just different people saying he told them an updated message on the rules of life.
Israel is pretty great for anti-Semites; it's a "somewhere else" to send all the Jews (with much better optics than Auschwitz) and it's also pure fucking evil, and has its fingers all through many other governments, making their nutjob conspiracy theories actually look plausible sometimes.
Yeah, the actions of Israel are the number one cause of antisemitism in the world.
People who don't know better start at accurate descriptions and righteous outrage over the atrocities committed by the IOF and the Knesset and the rage bait algorithms of social media take them down rabbit holes that lead to the actually antisemitic nonsense.
Hell, even if you know enough to avoid that, it's sometimes hard to not be instinctively prejudiced against all Israeli people even if you're not an antisemite.
Given that the vast majority of the population has been successfully brainwashed by decades of government indoctrination into thinking of all Palestinians as subhuman threats to their lives and thus are in favor of the oppression as long as the Israeli casualties are kept to a minimum, I must admit that I sometimes struggle with it myself..
As S. Ansky said ca. 1900 in his poem In Zaltsikyn Yam, [translated] "We (Jews) have heard this story before from our enemies, 'A ghetto for the eternal kyke.'"
Because if there's one thing they hate more than Jews, it's Arabic people.
"Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.”
Fascists of any stripe don't have any problem with their perceived enemies fighting their other enemies on their behalf.
And it's going to get worse before it gets better...
Yep, this just an excuse to send someone they don't like to the concentration camps.
“We’re fascists therefore everything you do to oppose us is antifa”
Fasception
Antifa is very real. They started fighting the Nazis in Germany. Today we fight fascists all over the world.
It feels weird that people say that "antifa isn't real". There's tons of groups using that name and symbols while doing Antifa type stuff. It's just not a singular organization but rather a loose collection of separate groups.
Time for another Red Scare!
Remember when Trump perked up after Zelensky told him they postponed their elections due to the war?
Kill all others.
On this blessed day?
I know it's a classic, but this made me think I should rewatch it.
Who's intimidated by antifa? I swear the right is full of frightened infants.
Good! It's ABOUT Time we label WWII vets as the TERRORISTS they Are!
If you are anti-anti-fa, that means you are fa. Do I need to spell it our more explicitly than that?
Don't call them "fa" — that hurts their feelings!
Feelings don't care about your facts.
No, wait! Something's wrong here.
Or "so" or "la" or "tee" or "do"
#UnexpectedMusicSounds
Bist du anti antifa, bist du fa
Anyone not pro-fascist is a terrorist?
I'm so confused because I thought the Republican party ran on the "we are all terrorists" premise. Like, who's on whose side?
We are all terrorists on this blessed day. — Ken M
Speak for yourself.
Apparently, yes!
Anyone that challenge government authority is a criminal and it has been the case for a long time.
I am antifa.
It's so weird, like that should be the default, and not opt-in.
That's the neat part, it is the default. the only way to opt out is to praise the leader loudly and often, and never in any way be critical of or inconvenient to the regime.
Evolution is slow, we're still wired to kill anything that doesn't look exactly like who we grew up around.
Everytime a society starts taking society for granted, like it's some inalienable right that will always be there no matter what, we stop socializing our kids and stop enforcing social norms.
Then everybody acts shocked that humans are really just animals.
Being against fascism is 100% opt in, and even with socialization some people are gonna want it because it involves almost zero thinking
Like, if you wanted to design a system for producing people who hate thinking and just want ordered around...
It would be hard to do better than No Child Left Behind.
But for lol ke 30 years now no one has wanted to fix it. This is the natural result
Explaining socio-historical phenomena by appeal to evolution is a pretty dodgy move, and a defeatist one. People can do better, and in many places and times they have done and still do. Fascists are responsible for their fascism. We're not evolved to be fascist; we have slipped into it due to very particular circumstances.
Because they were socialized...
I had a buddy back in the day with a very well trained dog, the guy used bird calls instead of spoken commands, and the dog understood perfectly.
But go out and start whistling at some wolves and see what happens.
Oh yeah?
Why does humanity have less genetic diversity than any other mammal that's not critically endangered?
Why are we one of the few species that "coincidentally" had all our relatives close enough to resemble us on the family tree all just happen to die out?
Modern humans have been unchanged for 300k years, we've lived thru multiple ice ages and societal collapses without any change.
We evolved for chaos and rebuilding. The whole time narrowing down our genetic tree to the point it's basically a telephone pole.
Probably because of some event in the past that few individuals survived, so that all humans since have been descended from them. Homo Sapiens is a relatively recent species and genetic diversification takes time, so the genetic narrowing effects of such population reduction would still be felt today.
But it has nothing to do with character or temperament, and as far as I know there's no evidence Homo Sapiens actively killed off its close relatives. For whatever reason they died off, while at some point we almost did too, but we just scraped through with less diverse genes as a result. That's how it goes in evolution: tiny differences can sometimes be amplified due to environment and chance. It's absurd to draw political conclusions, and to do so shows a misunderstanding of evolutionary processes and history.
An article about this:
https://www.science.org/content/article/how-we-lost-our-diversity
And a fun (but long!) video about the misuse of evolutionary theory to support psychological, political and social conclusions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31e0RcImReY
The system responsible for "love" and in group bonding also causes out group bias.
And in/out group is just based on who you're socialized around as a very young child.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39244015/
https://time.com/49399/oxytocin-racism-study/
Oxytocin is incredibly important. It's why we stick around with mates and raise children, it's why we live in groups instead of solitary. And it is directly tied (especially to men) to bias and aggression to outgroup individuals (especially other men).
Which is literally what fascism is. It's an institutionalized bias against "them" which uses fear and violence to control everyone.
Just because you can't immediately see the connection doesn't mean it's not there.
But out group bias, whether by chance or because it's beneficial, has always existed in modern humans. It's tied to such a fundamental neurotransmitter that it couldn't have made a sudden change, and again, humans are essentially unchanged for 300k years.
The problem like I said in the beginning, is that after a couple centuries of civilization socializing humans, humans start thinking that socialization isn't important and any random human can just magically grow up into a well adjusted person.
It takes fucking work
this ignores how many precolonial societies were wholly nonviolent. there are three kinds of culture: pure cultures, remix cultures, and domination cultures. pure cultures resist outside influence on their culture. remix cultures integrate ideas and concepts into their culture very fluidly. domination cultures attempt to eliminate other cultures they encounter. the only reason you perceive it as a biological imperative this way is that domination cultures seek to acquire and justify the power to eliminate pure and remix cultures, and then they do, and the evidence that the pure or remix culture they eliminated is gone, no longer able to speak on how they see the world and the other cultures. give this process 20k years and eventually you have an extremely small number of domination cultures subjugating the remnants of the other cultures.
this is the situation we find ourselves in today. there is nothing saying it must be this way, except for the domination cultures themselves. we can work to stop the domination cultures, but as we do this we must learn to listen to the pure and remix cultures. part of why we must do this is that the domination cultures if treated as pure cultures will continue on their course. they must be converted to remix cultures, integrating into themselves the idea of remix and pure cultures that they don't have to be so fucking violent all the time
I don't do antifa, I am antifa
Pretty safe to say America is officially, explicitly, pro-fascism, then? Does this qualify us for any refugee status or something?
I think there’s ground for it honestly.
Even before, but now it can be argued even more easily.
Were I American, I’d definitely leave before it gets uglier (it will). I wish all my fellow « antifa » Americans strength in the times to come. You guys are gonna need it 😞
Leaving is, unfortunately, a lot easier said than done. The easiest method is probably getting a foreign employer to sponsor a work visa, and that’s not an easy pathway. Other ways are harder.
Don’t get me wrong, I have an escape plan in mind if push comes to shove and Canada starts accepting asylum claims from trans and nonbinary people, but uprooting everything to change countries is prohibitively expensive for almost everyone.
I guess it is. I’m really sorry to read that. Good luck to you all!
Most of our countries will soon fall for the fascist agenda pushed by the billionaires anyway, so I’m not even sure if there’ll really be a place to run to….
Thank you, I appreciate it! We’re going to need all the luck we can get…
I hope that other countries can look at what’s happening here now and learn what not to do, rather than follow in our footsteps
Yeah, there's already a rise of Americans from persecuted groups seeking asylum in Canada, Europe, and elsewhere.
With the rise of fascism, the US has increasingly become unsafe for marginalized people to the point that many are legitimately qualified for asylum in safer countries and it's going to get much worse before it (hopefully, but not very likely soon) gets any better.
This would be time for Canada to rip up the safe third country agreement and start letting Americans claim political refugee status
Edit: for those who don’t know, the STCA means Canada only accepts refugees if we are the first “safe country” they enter. Since Canada still considers the US a safe democracy, American citizens / people entering from the US cannot claim refugee status
Ugh, I remember when our government would have acted like adults and just said "no comment" when Newsweek reached out to them.
These people are insolent fucking children
So everybody who fought in WWII is now classified as a terrorist since they were fighting fa(cism).
Yep... and the "good guys" are now the fascists, according to them
Remember Antifa is short for anti-fascist. Calling it what it is changes the meaning behind this.
It's like the war against DEI. They say the acronym because if they say "I'm against diversity, equality and inclusion" they look like assholes
Well, guess we’re the ones who are all domestic terrorists.
Is Antifa even a group? Like, do they send out newsletters or some shit? Can you buy a hat? Vote for leadership roles?
I thought it was more of a political belief. Wouldn't that just be calling all left wingers terrorists?
Yes, this is an attempt to label any sane person who is anti-fascist a terrorist. The irony is the likelihood of WW2 grandkids voting in favor of the current fascist. We're truly fucked as a nation.
Jokes on them, I am "against fascism*
Agafa just doesn't hit the same though
i dunno, i quite liked Murder on the Orient Express
Agafa Chrifty
We can make it work. “it was Agafa All Along”
Bingo.
I'm just over here waiting for the majority of Americans to grasp that we now have a fascist government. Literally.
Lot of denial going on in America right now. People are really going to have to start suffering before it sinks in. The suffering is coming. Guaranteed.
the denial won't end until trump is dead (ideally, in as embarrassing and compromising a manner as possible), coping for a "return to normal" that won't manifest
You are making statements that are not in dispute. This is the way forward for them.
Thats exactly what they're doing.
Yeah that's the idea
Most right wingers don’t like fascists either. See the American “left”
Well, considering ANTIFA doesn't exist, I'd say it's pretty safe to say they're doing this so they can label anyone they don't like as ANTIFA and disappear them.
Everyone should be arming themselves and helping everyone they know arm themselves.
Congratulations everyone! We are all now domestic terrorists if we don't agree with nazi's and the fascist government we have!
Thanks republicans! You got what you wanted! Free speech for right wing extremists, and everyone else is labeled a terrorist who can be sent to a concentration camp with zero due process!
All law and order is now gone, our economy is quickly crashing, and the job market is destroyed. Just as Donald Trump told his voter base he would accomplish, he actually did it. I give Project 2025 more credit than i did before. They streamlined us into Fascist US in less than a year!
So, the White House is pro fascism...
We knew that, but thanks for confirming it
Is "antifa" in the room right now?
We even have a website.
https://www.antifa.org/
Hilarity! Thanks for that.
Yes
It's not a distraction, it's a bigger deal!
Stop it! We know he's a pedophile who raped trafficked children, and we know the files won't be released.
This is more pressing. You're distracting from it with your tired meme.
ANTIFA isn't an organized group, it's a term to identify yourself as "anti fascist", and now that nets you a bullshit terrorism charge. People will start getting arrested and questioned about very mild anti trump sentiments and be charged with bullshit terrorism charges.
This is a crackdown on the remaining freedom of expression you can get away with. This is a huge deal.
Activists will be arrested and physically beat over this, we've seen this movie before in other authoritarian dictatorship struggling for power before. You'll soon be dragged into a van and stomped on for posting that stupid meme, but you're not posting it ironically, it's actually your main concern.
Out a here with your defeatism.
He didnt win the election.
He tried and failed to cancel Kimmel.
This is not like hitler. This is a schoolyard bully that's massively overplaying his hand.
Fuck off with they wont be released. They will be, and it will be the end of him.
Yes, it is a big deal, but it fits his agenda to constantly shock and awe so we forget. And no, the majority of his base thinks he's an angel.
Releasing the files and footage is the card that when removed, lots of dominos will topple.
People have the power, but not when defeatist shit like this gets upvoted.
/rant
What makes you so confident they will be released? Or that if they are - it's the end? This isn't defeatism, I've just watched this story play out multiple times now on multiple topics, and frankly his supporters and enablers couldn't seem to give a shit.
There's always an excuse, or it's never "that bad", or maybe a mouthpiece will spin the victims deserved it and the believers eat it up.
I simply wish I had half this optimism as I'm asking legitimately, what hope are you holding for with such confidence?
I’ve seen a few high profile pedophile cases play out in the past.
Dissent is growing within his own ranks. Staples like Tucker, MTG, Nancy Mace, and a bunch of the core maga lunatics are peeling away from this and supporting the release. Moderate republicans like Massie are not dancing to his tune either.
He’s going too fast and hard with his coup. Hitler took 7 years, he has to complete all his moves before November next year, or they will have impeachment and removal before the end of January 2027.
Every thing they are doing is fast, corrosive but therefore also sloppy. They have forgotten about liberal moles that they forgot to fire at several departments. A bunch of the hardcore sycophants hires are very sensitive around pedophiles. If even one of them was someone who had to go through the files at the fbi to see if trump was in it, they have a massive problem if these people come forward during the impeachment hearings.
If it’s bad enough, the MTG faction that got rid of the last Speaker could file articles of impeachment before the midterms and have the Dems and the CrazyCaucus™ vote together to impeach. This is a crucial part for any regime collapse: the fringe of the ruling regime having the same concerns and passion as the opposition. The most extreme MAGA in the house and the progressive caucus of the Dems is basically aligned on this issue.
Anyone with an understanding for successful authoritarian transitions knows that this is not how you do it. Anyone with an understanding of how pedophiles get scorched by the populace once irrefutable evidence is found, can see he’s strong-marching on a very thin branch.
He may look more organised than the first term, but once the economic reality hits hard around xmas from all his tariff crap, and he loses donor support, things will get a lot harder.
The files are a very core part of his most cult part of his base. His base will support him a lot less passionately, every day he doesn’t release them.
The Epstein Files is how we bring him down, because it has the broadest base of support across an artificially divided population.
Sounds like the kind of thing they would want to do to slow down the release of the Epstein files!
Jesus Christ! I'm asking you to be out in the streets with pitchforks demanding the pedophile in chief be ousted before you have no more freedoms to even make silly memes...
I mean, we’ve been doing that. It doesn’t seem to work.
I'm sorry? You've been doing that? Who's we and where?
There's been pockets of small scale protests like in California, but you haven't been doing that everywhere and at the required scale at all! It's not working because only a tiny fraction of people give a shit, everyone is apathetic and I've literally been told "at least we're on the side with the guns".
No kings, 50501, etc... And where is pretty much everywhere
We’ve had the largest protests in American history if not world history over this. The streets were flooded in New york just within the past week. It’s not working because nonviolent protest just isn’t effective.
Ahh, there you go. I said with pitchforks, not with memes on cardboard.
Jesus fuck, not everything is a distraction from Epstein. There is a lot of other bad shit they’re doing simply because they’re fascists, no ulterior motive required.
Read a fucking history book
"White House bans the 2001 miniseries Band of Brothers for not paying homage to Charlie Kirk."
Woody Guthrie and all WWII veterans are rolling in their grave
Woody Guthrie wrote a song about this loser’s father. This has been going on a very long time.
I don’t understand why it matters. Antifa from what I understand, is anti fascist. Is America fascist, so they need to be afraid of this ‘idea’?
I already know the answer, I just don’t understand why more people especially journalists aren’t asking it.
Both. That's how fascism operates.
I used to think that they were constantly paradoxical to obfuscate their message, but I'm more recently convinced by their anti-intellectual fervor that they might just be so stupid they don't understand paradoxes.
While I agree with you about the issue, i would like to point out that countries with "Democratic" in their names aren't shining beacons of democracy. This funny quip is easy to win.
Just need to make some kind of group that can be denied rights and then start designating everyone you don't like a part of that group. Antifa being that group is just typical Trump laziness and an exercise to see how far right his base actually is.
Antifa is a loanword borrowed from the German antifaschistisch(antifa for short), which was borrowed from the Italian anti-Fascisti.
Antifa is domestic, that much is right. The only terror its bringing is to the fascists in power. And the reason they're scared is because of the last part, there isn't a single organization to pinpoint and find a way to disable or attack. Antifa is just Americans who are willing to resist the takeover, in little or big ways. They are a specific version of Anonymous.
Therefore, anyone who stands up for themselves is automatically Antifa and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Therefore, everyone is being threatened into doing nothing for themselves .... on anything, for any reason.
Since "antifa" is just an idea and not an actual organization, use another term that means the same thing.
That's the point I think, antifa is a vague term, the more vague the term the more broadly and selectively you can apply it as you want, it's just a fascist tactic to justify jailing anyone they don't like
Antif-fasc
No Fasc
Sansfa
anti-nazi?
They don't care. They needed a bogeyman they can use to suppress their "enemies" no matter who they are; now they have chosen it.
The US government designates most of their citizens and almost the entire world (except Israel and the Russian government) as terrorists as antifa means you're anti fascism. Guess I'm a terrorist now.
Fwiw, the President can't just "declare" that a group is a domestic terrorist organization. That's a violation of the Fifth Amendment.
We've been able to get away with declaring foreign groups as terrorist organizations because they're not based in America so the government can claim the Constitution doesn't apply to them.
Of course, we all also know this won't stop Trump...
It's never stopped the HF Ideology.
Right now it's anti-fascists. It used to be Islam. Before that it was hippies. Before that it was commies. Before that it was Native Americans.
Then you kind of split at the Mason-Dixon line. In the south it was Abolitionists.
Right. As if Trump cares about the constitution. He's done many unconstitutional things already, and he will continue to do so.
As a European, I wish it were only Israel and Russian governments... AfD is polling highest in Germany, Finland elected a far-right government as did Italy, France is well on the way to do that, and possibly so is Spain. At least I'm militant in a communist organization fighting fascism in Spain, proud to have participated and coordinated the anti-genocide mass protests of a week ago, everyone who's reading this: organize, organize and organize. Join local worker struggles and international worker solidarity with Palestinians, unionize yourself and your coworkers, push for general strike against the genocide in Palestine and for better rights for workers
At least the right here in The Netherlands is fucking up big time. The government fell twice (for the first time ever) and the recent protests of last Saturday were a complete disaster. The only thing the right is good at over here is showing how much they are incompetent clowns.
I know the right is on the rise here in the EU as well. However, the fight against them is also growing stronger. And no matter what, there's always coming an end to fascism. Stay strong!
Quick, everyone fall back to the Antifa HQ where police can't find you wink wink. It's in the deepest, shit filled sewers. The secret code to open the door is to take a deep breath and then dive to the bottom.
Ssshhh, don't tell the FBI. We don't want them swimming down here and finding us.
Text of the executive order:
Ugh I guess we’ll have to change the name at the next meeting. Dave, you’re working on the agenda, right? Put “name change” at the front. Sandy go ahead and reach out to marketing and have them bring some fresh logo mock-ups. Jackie, you’re on kombucha duty this week.
They're out of lavender mint. Is original flavor okay?
What the hell does George Soros even pay you for, Jackie?! How are we supposed to organize non-acts of passive aggression without lavender mint?!
I'm sorry! Apparently Ilhan Omar and AOC needed to fuel up before they went to transgender the kids at the secret AntiFa, atheist, jihad school in that pizza parlor basement.
How about something catchy like Mothers Against Fascists In America. Yeah. MAFIA. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that name. Everyone likes mothers... (receives and reads note).... Fuck.
Did AI write this? Citations needed.
I don't see emojis, so maybe not.
Two em dashes though.
Glances nervously at the first amendment
You alright bud?
"All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations"
https://web.archive.org/web/20250922224626/https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/designating-antifa-as-a-domestic-terrorist-organization/ in case you don't want to visit that likely russian-compromised site.
This is McCarthyism all over again, which should come as no surprise considering Roy Cohn mentored Donald Trump.
Weird they are focusing on this but not releasing the Epstein Files as promised.
Not weird when you take into account that Donald Trump raped children.
"all over again"
it never went away, it's just one part of the the same cycled playbook being used repeatedly
What did they mean by this
"We can't just label someone immigrant or trans so we need another term for people who we want to throw into our concentration camps when we don't like them that is vague enough so that it means everything and nothing."
Right, this one isn't about immigrants or trans. It's about anyone protesting them.
They're anti-fascist, so they're anti-US govt, what's there to get?
First they came for the Latinos, and I did not speak out
Next they came for the antifascists...
When they gonna take down all the ww2 memorials and statues that honor our vets fighting facists?
Right after they cast the golden statues of the small handed leader.
Band Of Brothers is now banned from all streaming, as is saving Private Ryan, fury, and inglorious bastards.
Those are all terrorist propaganda.
Well of course, those were made by notorious antifa pizzagate mastermind Tom Hanks.
Is this Antifa in the room with us now?
Well, I don't like fascists. Does that count?
your member card is on the way
Yes
As an Uruguayan this gives me a weird feeling. The dictatorship regime here started cause "the need to quash communist terrorists" called MLN or Tupamaros at the time they where revolutionaries at the time but they served more as an excuse, even the Che Guevara warned them at the time. The military repression and overthrow techniques where learnt in the school of americas that now goes by a different name. And you can see how the parallelism happens in the whole region. The scene is very alike and one would dare to think shit gonna be sadly worse on such an influential country. If anything in time you'll learn the meaning of the phrase
Nunca más...
Por desgracia, hablar en .world sobre el papel que han tenido los Estados Unidos en la propagación y financiación del fascismo en todo el mundo te va a acarrear acusaciones de "tankie". La mayoría de usuarios de .world son yanquis anticomunistas que van a aprobar toda represión contra los "radicales comunistas", tachándoles de autoritarios o de pro-Rusos. Como cantaba Carlos Puebla:
"Nada de viejos partidos, colorado y blanco: la nueva esperanza dice Tupamaros, Tupamaros!"
Translation? I used a translated app.
Unfortunately, speaking on .world about the role the United States has played in spreading and financing fascism around the world will earn you accusations of being a "tankie." Most .world users are anti-communist Yankees who will approve of any repression against "communist radicals," labeling them authoritarian or pro-Russian. As Carlos Puebla sang: "No more old parties, red and white: the new hope says Tupamaros, Tupamaros!"
Yup, pretty spot-on. Thank you for translation
Que hagan lo que quieran yo se bien quien soy y lo que creo. Seguiran caminando hacia ese destino mientras miran tik toks en su cel. Yendo a lo nuestro. Entiendo las ideas tupamaras aunque no las comparto del todo. Te soy sincero creo que aun seguimos teniendo muchas ideas acancronicas Marx Lennin Keynes y todos esos podrán haber tenido un montón de ideas base pero ni a ganchos se imaginaban el mundo que hoy tenemos, hasta te diría que ni Michelini ni Seregni tenian idea lo mas cerca a una idea clara que tenemos a mano es Grompone la verdad. Por eso y por varias razones creo que el capitalismo ni el comunismo funcionan. Te diria que en general creo en el anarquismo y socialismo moderno capaz. Pero siendo claros es mas cosas como el solarpunk, estructuras horizontales, un gobierno del tamaño correcto con servicios publicos y claras ademas de solidas regulaciones, impuestos a la riqueza, distribución equitativa. No es una idea de como manejar un pais sino varias que se aplican bien a diferentes aspectos de la sociedad.
Entiendo muy bien tu posición, y hasta cierto punto la comparto. Si te gustan las estructuras horizontales, me leí un libro que se llama "People's Republic of Walmart" hablando de las posibilidades de una economía planificada pero descentralizada y horizontal, me parece un concepto tremendo de cara al futuro, y siendo de América Latina seguro que también te interesa el proyecto Cybersyn de planificación computerizada de la economía que intentó llevar a cabo Allende antes de que le asesinasen los Estados Unidos y Pinochet. Mi problema principal con las regulaciones, impuestos a la riqueza y la distribución equitativa es que no he visto ejemplos históricos de países en los que se haya podido llevar eso a cabo sin que te den un golpe de estado fascista, por ejemplo una vez más el Chile de Allende.
Yyy por algo es... Igualmente no significa que sea una mala idea, hay paises que lo tienen y creo funciona. Es mas te diría que habria que tener un standard internacional del impuesto, nada de ir a esconder la guita a las Islas Cayman Suiza o en algunos casos Uruguay 🤦♂️.
Interesante la recomendación del libro muchas gracias.
You would think a country that is really good at terrorising the world would be better to recognise terrorists.
Oh they are. They understand what they are doing.
Understood. I will not oppose Fa. I still, however, oppose Fascism.
We need to stop instantly panicking over "Donald Trump declares ..." headlines. He can declare that pigeons are spies sent by Martian aliens. He has no qualifications to say so, nobody intelligent should be paying attention, his zealots will still follow his orders, and it doesn't matter.
Him getting the normalcy of calling opponents terrorists is still a reason to panick regardless of him being a moron who declares stupid shit.
Its time they rebrand as Against Fascism. Because I really see that american dont understand what it means
That's just the thing, there are no "they" in terms of a membership. Antifa is just a philosophy or political position. It's like saying conservatives or flat-earthers or Phillies supporters are terrorist organizations. This executive order is nothing but the tantrum wailing of a geriatric toddler.
I know, but, even if antifa is a ideology that is not organised. You can still find logo and merchandise around.
I wonder if this line would work to console the families of the people his gestapo have already black bagged off the street
The fact that evil people have joined ICE to invade communities is due to their own evil - it's not "because of" anything Trump said. He's just a lump of flesh desperately trying to justify the abductions.
Basically, I'm suggesting we reduce how much we view his importance in the current chaos. If he suddenly decided ICE was bad for his image, he'd still be powerless to stop it. Look at how bad he is at pretending to care about Russian invasions.
My grandfather was an antifa. Sadly, he isn't around to show this administration how they did it last time.
Around where I live we have this LARP/reenactment thing going big. It'd be a shame if some WW2 partisans got a little carried away...
About as useful as the War on Drugs, or Anon. There's no leader, or organizational structure, but they'll find someone to pin it on. I imagine there's already a board with strings of people they hate ready to go.
Lol
We all know the Trump regime is the real domestic terrorist organization. Go give more dark money to superpacs that will make the world better.
If Antifa even was a terror organization in the US it would be one of the most ineffectual ones in existence given the state of the US.
What a fucking joke.
this is a good sign, as it means antifa will win this war just every like every other war on ideas the US has waged. US is 0 for 2 against Drugs and Terrorism
Sure, but they ruined a lot of lives and killed a lot of people in the name of the war on drugs and terror. Doesn't have to be successful to be a shit idea and end up hurting a lot of people for no reason.
Im of the opinion that hurting people is bad. But thats a controversial opinion in the U.S. government these days. You should be asking yourself, are you hurting the right people?
Proud Boys? Nah bro, they homies! – also trump regime
KKK? Nah
"so are you a 'explode something' terrorist, or 'Shares a meme that hurt someone's fefe's' terrorist?"
I think I'm just a passive consumer of American life who doesn't think fascism is all that swell, type of terrorist.
I guess they were correct that "we're all domestic terrorists"... Except a lot of the calls to violence are coming from the other side, and I just had this title thrust upon me...
Says the extremist domestic terrorist organization currently occupying my country.
Edit: yes where ARE the Epstein files?
It's useful because now they can claim anyone they want to ICE that they are Antifa.
Oh, joy.
armed standoffs with law enforcement
The Bundy clan and Republic of Texas are antifa?
OK so is he even allowed to do that? And if he isn't are government agencys required to comply with his order until it is overturned?
No and no. But that's only in the legal/technical sense.
I guess that just leaves the "pants on head" sense.
Oh no, they're going to raid aintifa's home address!
The antifa is coming from IN the house
Oh boy I sure hope that this is what helps the economy, lowers the price of groceries, gas, and housing. So much winning everywhere!
Ok serious question and this is by no means an equivalency, but did the Biden admin classify the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers as terrorist organizations? I can’t remember.
No, the list is pretty short. They fucking should be though.
The list is short because historically it has been hard to designate domestic organizations as terrorists without violating their First Amendment rights (among others, I'm sure).
They are in civilised countries like Canada
For all the warmongers here who think it's fine for the government to boost military spending and dump billions on "defense".
Good luck.
Defense was renamed war.
This applies especially well to Europe. Everyone cheering at military expenditure, let's see how happy we are when the tanks manufactured during the socdems are in the hands of the European nazis...
Unfortunately, Russia started and continues their war of conquest in Europe and the USA isn't helping nearly as much as they used to. Europe is the only one who can pick up the slack. And they are.
Russia can barely win a war against the poorest country in Europe, it has no interest or capabilities of invading Western Europe in my opinion. Regardless of that, I can't remember one single time in which European nations have armed themselves and used their armies for a good cause. World War 1, World War 2, colonialism in Africa, South and Central America and Asia come to mind, as well as the bombing of Libya and Yugoslavia, collaboration in Afghanistan or Iraq... Surely, this one time is the right one?
Should European countries have just sat on their ass and let Hitler do whatever he wanted? They actually tried that, the Peace For Our Time declaration in 1938 made by England after Hitler took over large parts of Czechoslovakia. Then Hitler did what always happens when a dictator is appeased, they go for more...and invaded Poland with the Soviet Union's help.
Quite a few European countries armed themselves and used their armies for a good cause in that war. Unless you don't consider stopping Hitler and the Holocaust a good cause.
Bringing it back to modern day, this is Putin's second invasion of Ukraine. Appeasing dictators does not work, again this is Putin's second invasion of Ukraine. Dictators only understand force; force must be met with force; force is being met with force.
I'm gonna please ask you to actually read my comment and to be open to the historical evidence I bring (using Wikipedia as a source, hopefully not suspect of being tankie-biased), because I believe there is a great mistake in the way contemporary western nations interpret history of WW2 and the interwar period. Thank you for actually making the effort, I know it's a long comment:
They kinda did and that's entirely my point: capitalist nations won't do much to fight fascism. World War 2 wasn't won by capitalist western-style democracies, it was communists, 80% of Nazi soldiers were defeated in the Eastern front!
The only country who offered to start a collective offensive against the Nazis and to uphold the defense agreement with Czechoslovakia as an alternative to the Munich Betrayal was the USSR. From that Wikipedia article: "The Soviet Union announced its willingness to come to Czechoslovakia's assistance, provided the Red Army would be able to cross Polish and Romanian territory; both countries refused."
As a Spaniard leftist it's so infuriating when the Soviet Union, the ONLY country in 1936 which actively fought fascism in Europe by sending weapons, tanks and aviation to my homeland in the other side of the continent in the Spanish civil war against fascism, is accused of appeasing the fascists. The Soviets weren't dumb, they knew the danger and threat of Nazism and worked for the entire decade of the 1930s under the Litvinov Doctrine of Collective Security to enter mutual defense agreements with England, France and Poland, which all refused because they were convinced that the Nazis would honor their own stated purpose of invading the communists in the East. The Soviets went as far as to offer ONE MILLION troops to France (Archive link against paywall) together with tanks, artillery and aviation in 1939 in exchange for a mutual defense agreement, which the French didn't agree to because of the stated reason. Please stop trying to rewrite history, the Soviets were BY FAR the most antifascist country in Europe.
The invasion of "Poland" is also severely misconstrued. The Soviets didn't invade what we think of when we say Poland. They invaded overwhelmingly Ukrainian, Belarusian and Lithuanian lands that Poland had previously invaded in 1919. Poland in 1938, a year before the invasion:
"Polish" territories inavded by the USSR in 1939:
The Soviets invaded famously Polish cities such as Lviv (sixth most populous city in modern Ukraine), Pinsk (important city in western Belarus) and Vilnius (capital of freaking modern Lithuania). They only invaded a small chunk of what you'd consider Poland nowadays, and the rest of lands were actually liberated from Polish occupation and returned to the Ukrainian, Belarusian and Lithuanian socialist republics. Hopefully you understand the importance of giving Ukrainians back their lands and sovereignty?
Additionally, the Soviets didn't invade Poland together with the Nazis, they invaded a bit more than two weeks after the Nazi invasion, at a time when the Polish government had already exiled itself and there was no Polish administration. The meaning of this, is that all lands not occupied by Soviet troops, would have been occupied by Nazis. There was no alternative. The Soviet invasion effectively protected millions of Slavic peoples like Poles, Ukrainians and Belarusians from the stated aim of Nazis of genociding the Slavic peoples all the way to the Urals.
All in all, my conclusion is: the Soviets were fully aware of the dangers of Nazism and fought against it earlier than anyone (Spanish civil war), spent the entire 30s pushing for an anti-Nazi mutual defence agreement which was refused by France, England and Poland, tried to honour the existing mutual defense agreement with Czechoslovakia which France rejected and Poland didn't allow (Romania neither but they were fascists so that's a given), and offered to send a million troops to France's border with Germany to destroy Nazism but weren't allowed to do so. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was a tool of postponing the war in a period in which the USSR, a very young country with only 10 years of industrialization behind it since the first 5-year plan in 1929, was growing at a 10% GDP per year rate and needed every moment it could get. I can and do criticise decisions such as the invasion of Finland, but ultimately even the western leaders at the time seem to generally agree with my interpretation:
“In those days the Soviet Government had grave reason to fear that they would be left one-on-one to face the Nazi fury. Stalin took measures which no free democracy could regard otherwise than with distaste. Yet I never doubted myself that his cardinal aim had been to hold the German armies off from Russia for as long as might be” (Paraphrased from Churchill’s December 1944 remarks in the House of Commons.)
“It would be unwise to assume Stalin approves of Hitler’s aggression. Probably the Soviet Government has merely sought a delaying tactic, not wanting to be the next victim. They will have a rude awakening, but they think, at least for now, they can keep the wolf from the door” Franklin D. Roosevelt (President of the United States, 1933–1945), from Harold L. Ickes’s diary entries, early September 1939. Ickes’s diaries are published as The Secret Diary of Harold Ickes.
"One must suppose that the Soviet Government, seeing no immediate prospect of real support from outside, decided to make its own arrangements for self‑defence, however unpalatable such an agreement might appear. We in this House cannot be astonished that a government acting solely on grounds of power politics should take that course” Neville Chamberlain House of Commons Statement, August 24, 1939 (one day after pact's signing)
Again, thank you for reading so far. I'll be glad to engage in constructive criticism.
Timeline:
23 Aug 1939 - Germany and Soviet Union sign a non-agression pact
1 Sept 1939 - Germany invades Poland
3 Sept 1939 - France and UK declare war on Germany (Soviets still have a non-aggression pact with Germany)
17 Sept 1939 - Soviet Union invades Poland (Soviets still have a non-aggression pact with Germany)
10 May 1940 - Germany invades France (Soviets still have a non-aggression pact with Germany)
22 Jun 1941 - Germany invades the Soviet Union and the non-agression pact between the Soviets and Germans is terminated
No, you don't get to say countries like England "won’t do much to fight fascism", despite being at war with Germany for years, while praising the Soviets, despite having a non-agressin pact with Germany for those same years
It's not surprising Poland didn't want Soviet troops in their country, the Soviets literally invaded them shortly later.
Again, England and France declared war on Germany in 1939, and for those two years England was at war with Germany, the Soviets had a non-agression pact. No, you don't get to be "by far" the most of something when others beat you out by two years.
Correct, they were annexed into the Soviet Union. Much liberation by the Soviets there! These countries weren't free until FIVE DECADES LATER when the Soviet Union fell.
Germany and the Soviet Union literally agreed to partition Poland between the two of them as part of their non-aggression pact signed before either invaded Poland. Don't downplay what the Soviets did here.
France and the UK declared war on Germany in 1939, the Soviet Union had a non-agression pact with Germany for TWO MORE YEARS. Come now, claiming the Soviets were fighting against Nazism before England just makes you look bad. These are easy to look up dates.
I know you are bringing up the Spanish Civil War here, but that was vastly overshadowed by their non-agression pact and mutual invasion of Poland with Germany.
The overarching point here is you seem to be doing quite a bit of apologizing for the bad shit the Soviet Union did. It's quite honest to say the Soviets fought against the Germans in WWII, but it's not honest to say they were doing it before anyone else or to downplay them working with the Germans by mutually invading Poland. Both are true, and and honest look at history includes both the good things and the bad things the Soviet Union did in WWII.
Ok, I've read through your comment and I'm a bit disappointed. You're ignoring most of what I said, and your entire point is "but Poland, but Poland and but Poland".
Your timeline conveniently starts in 1939 and ends in 1941, and you made no mention whatsoever of the Litvinov doctrine I brought up which explicitly was "seeking a collective security agreement with France and England against Nazis" for the entire 30s. You just reject the Spanish civil war as a nothingburger as if it weren't the first antifascist war in Europe. You also don't mention the Munich Agreements and somehow disregard the fact that France and Poland signed them with Hitler.
Maybe it's because Poland participated actively in the Munich agreements and got part of Czech land? By your own logic, Poland made an unforgivable deal with Hitler when invading Czechoslovakia. No blame there? History starts in 1939?
Poland never belonged to the Soviet Union after the war, so your point is moot regarding Poland. As for Belarus and Ukraine, they respectively voted 83% and 71% IN FAVOR OF REMAINING IN THE SOVIET UNION IN THE 1991 REFERENDUM. What the hell are you talking about being free? Belarusian and Ukrainian people OVERWHELMINGLY DEMOCRATICALLY DECIDED TO BELONG IN THE SOVIET UNION. Please, tell me, how were Ukraine and Belarus not free?! Catalonia, for reference, recently had an independence referendum in which 50% of the population voted to leave Spain and the promoter of the referendum is a political refugee in Brussels. Please tell me in which fucking way Ukraine or Belarus weren't free in the Soviet Union when they were two of the highest "yes" voters in the referendum.
You never addressed the public speeches by the leaders of France, USA and England admitting to what I'm saying. You never addressed the alternative to Eastern "Poland" (i.e. Belarus, Ukraine and Lithuanian territories) knowing that they would otherwise be invaded by Hitler, you never addressed the MILLION SOLDIERS that the Soviets offered and France rejected on exchange for a mutual defense agreement.
You simply ignored all of my comment, went on with the "but Motherboard-Ribbedcock" ignoring the history of the 10 previous years of consistent Soviet antifascist geopolitical position, and claim that the poor "Poles" (i.e. ethnic Ukrainians, Jews, Belarusians and Lithuanians) whose territories were returned to the Ukrainian, Belarusian and Lithuanian republics, were somehow oppressed Poles who somehow could have avoided Nazi genocide if it weren't for Soviet intervention both in 1939 and in 1941.
I honestly expected a bit more of good faith from the exchange instead of doubling down on narrowing history to a skewed version of one treaty and ignoring the DEMOCRATIC WILL OF TENS OF MILLIONS OF VOTERS in the 1991 referendum by calling them "non-free" in the Soviet Union. So much for freedom.
Have you had time to read my other comment? I would appreciate some discussion if you have anything to say, I spent quite a while writing that
Yeah, read it and gave it that updoot, but have been busy today. Will respond. :)
What a dunce. Does that idiot not even realize--- wait, ofc he doesn't. Antifa isn't a group, it's an idea. The idea is that we hate fascists. By declaring this "group" terrorists is basically saying HI I AM A FASCIST POS. 🖕🤬🖕
Raids on VFWs across the country forthcoming.
Uh huh.
Name the last war America fought fascists in instead of siding with them.
You realize a good many of our soldiers have helped support and train Ukrainians fighting against fascist invaders, right? Many have even volunteered outside of their service on the front lines.
It was a close run thing to be fair.
Ugh
Now I feel obligated
https://imgur.com/gallery/uBezMZl
First they came for the antifascists..
If I ever get to be president I’m gonna designate cauliflower as a terrorist organization
Antibrassica?
"And just like that, Trump was gone."
He should also designate Stoicism as a terrorist organization.
Hey,,, so, what if I said I was running for office as an anti-facist
Oh boy, I'm a double terrorist!
great. come and get me.
Is that a better or worse classification than Juggalos? Just saying I havent been seeing anyone with a hatchetman tattoo altering their behavior much
If there was any organization to it, we wouldn't be dealing with the PedoMango acting as our POTUS. He'd be in prison.
Sounds like chatgpt