"I graduated high school, got a good job at the Mill, married my high school sweetheart, had five kids, bought a second house with a boat, retired at 60, went insane reading Facebook memes and watching FOX News, then decided to shoot up the Harvest Music Festival in 2017. Why can't you young people do that?"
Not sure if it's still a thing but I knew a girl from Norway who basically went to college from age 18-30 getting like four different degrees because as long as she remained in higher education, the government would keep paying for her education + living expenses.
Not sure if that was the original intent but it sure does result in a highly educated populace.
Norway here: This is kind of how it works, but not quite.
While studying, you get a student loan. 40 % of that loan is automatically "forgiven" (turned into a stipend) as you complete your courses. In order to remain eligible for the loan, you need to maintain a certain progression in your studies, and there's also a limit to how many years you can receive the stipend for (I think it's eight years now). As long as you're studying, the loan doesn't accrue interest, and you don't need to make down payments.
Throughout five years, I received very roughly 200k NOK (≈20k USD) in stipend, and 300k NOK in loans.
Also, a PhD is treated as an ordinary job here. I'm paid about 600k NOK (≈60k USD) per year, which is a bit less than my peers from engineering studies in industry jobs (they get around 700-800), but it's by no means a bad pay. I've been able to afford a small apartment together with my SO on that pay. Hearing about places where people have to take up loans in order to finance taking a phd makes my head spin.
Little other support as in it's common to take on more phd candidates than there are resources for leading to issues like needing to fight to get lab time. At least according to some people I know who've been in phd programs here.
We are part of the EEA. The agreement between the EU and the remaining EFTA members. (Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland.)
For Norway's part it means we adopt the legislation as national law (we can veto, but seldom happens) and are part of the inner market but not the customs union. Also special agreements on energy (oil) agriculture and fishing. We have no representation in the parliament or the commission. We participate on beurocratic level but cannot vote on anything. (I represent Norway in two 'group of experts" and two administrative cooperation groups) GoE discusses things on a higher level AdCo lower level and market surveillance.
We have a voice, but always a little bit apart.
We have a "complicated" relationship to the EU. There was a vote in the '90s where we decided not to join, and now we're connected through the EEA (which another comment treats in detail). Today, the EU debate is rising again, largely because of the war in Ukraine. However, it seems like public opinion is still marginally opposed to membership due to our somewhat special situation regarding oil, hydropower, and (lack of) agricultural land.
Have a friend who was a sort-of perpetual grad student - bouncing from Sweden to Italy to Australia - over about ten years, pursuing a degree in marine biology. Along the way, she contributed thousands of hours of labor to various research teams. Eventually, she got burned out, married a neurologist, and moved to a small house in Queensland. Now she mostly just gardens and raises bunnies, which she is extraordinarily good at thanks to her education.
Was this money wasted or did the universities get exactly what they paid her for? Idk. But it seems a far better way to employ people than what we've done with The Pentagon or ICE.
American public universities used to be free. But a lot of students protested things like racism and the Vietnam War so Ronald Reagan as governor of California and later as president worked hard to ensure that American students had to pay lest they have the time and financial freedom to exercise their rights
Give it 5-10 years and every college age person being funneled into the trades, then they will be oversaturated again and we will go back to overpacking STEM
My wife graduated law school in 2010, Summa Cum Laude, and just barely got a job at a low rent firm.
Five years later, she's earning twice the money at a much nicer place for not much more work, because the glut of students from '08-'10 caused grads in '11-'14 to look elsewhere. Suddenly there was a huge supply gap and you could write your own ticket.
Moral of the Story: Get good at something and stick with it. Markets go up, markets go down, but skills pay the bills in the end.
Oh. I hadn't read it like that. I thought the brother was a hypocrite because if he has a PhD he SHOULD be able to pay his debts and get a hose (I'm not from the us so I'm guessing that part) but I stead seems to not ba able to manage his own money while criticizing OP
College graduates (PhD or otherwise) drowning in debt and not being financially able to pay it off is common enough here in the US that it's a trope, and likely the basis for this "joke".
That same house in my area costs at least 10 times that amount. I was lucky in that I had "only" $80,000 of debt from my bachelor's, a housing situation via marriage, and a career path with solid pay (after going back for an associate's while working in a low-paying job post-graduation for 7 years). I only finally paid off that debt 2 years ago and I graduated in 2008. I don't know how a lot of people manage.
People typically get paid to earn a PhD, so this person's debt likely came from elsewhere, unless they grossly overpaid for their undergraduate education.
Then it sounds like HVAC/Refrigeration it the trade for you. It's kind of funny because we tend to get all the people who dropped other trades for various reasons. I work with ex plumbers who didn't want to deal with shit, I work with journeyman electricians who didn't want to spend 8 years becomming a master electrician, I work with ex building automation guys who got tired of trying to automate busted equipment. A lot of my coworkers started in other trades, went "This fucking sucks" and switched to HVAC-R.
It's not all just poopoo peepee stuff. A lot of plumbers do mechanical work in commercial buildings, boiler retrofits, repiping, construction. I'm in commercial HVAC and work with a bunch of plumbers whose skills and scope of work have great overlap with mine. I've also helped them out doing boiler retros/repipes. We offer similar services, subcontracting each other to our own customers, just they do more of the gas fired work and fix leaks in heating loops and I do the AC/Refrigeration stuff
There’s other hand-craft trades that don’t involve sewage. If you get into the commercial space, there’s a good chance you’d deal with it a lot less if at all since they would need a specialist for biohazards.
Depends on what level you're at. I had a friend help us install a new septic system. Holy shit was there a lot more to it than I ever guessed. Had no idea surveying gear was required.
At a higher level, same guy drafts plans for military bases and hospitals. Then he goes in the field to troubleshoot issues. Plumbing includes gas if applicable!
Most of us are familiar with, if not doing the work, the principles behind fixing a leak, replacing a sink or toilet, etc. I can do all of the above, but I don't know the fine points in doing it right. There's far more to residential plumbing than most see.
In my experience a lot of those jobs are handled by more specific people I wouldn't exactly call just plumbers. There's far more to it than people realize for sure but it's still not rocket science.
Out of the 8 cousins in my family the 2 of us that didn't go to college are the only ones who own a house. I didn't finish 10th grade and I'm looking at buying my second house and trying to figure out how to keep my current one to give to my mom.
My cousins are pretty cool (aside from a couple who are very spiteful) but my aunts and uncles act like I scammed them all for everything they had.
Nah, they decided to buy a more affordable car with only a 3-star crash rating because they decided to get stressed about their only financing option being complete dogshit because of a wrecked economy, because they decided to have a job that required going into the office.
Probably them choosing to do the thing. Someone doing a PhD might be hoping to land a good job later on and be able to through that pay off the debt. Or they want to pursue their passion, even if it means debt. It's a decision to go for those. Could've gone to trade school.
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The boomer energy is strong with this one.
"I graduated high school, got a good job at the Mill, married my high school sweetheart, had five kids, bought a second house with a boat, retired at 60, went insane reading Facebook memes and watching FOX News, then decided to shoot up the Harvest Music Festival in 2017. Why can't you young people do that?"
If they were boomers then the phd one should've paid off more of that student debt
The Boomer term has shifted to being about state of mind.
This started after "ok, boomer" caused all these people to out themselves.
Hell yeah it is a state of mind
Wish I had that state of mind. Just not giving a fuck like this guy.
Or education could be free. Just a thought.
free? people should be paid to get an education
Not sure if it's still a thing but I knew a girl from Norway who basically went to college from age 18-30 getting like four different degrees because as long as she remained in higher education, the government would keep paying for her education + living expenses.
Not sure if that was the original intent but it sure does result in a highly educated populace.
Norway here: This is kind of how it works, but not quite.
While studying, you get a student loan. 40 % of that loan is automatically "forgiven" (turned into a stipend) as you complete your courses. In order to remain eligible for the loan, you need to maintain a certain progression in your studies, and there's also a limit to how many years you can receive the stipend for (I think it's eight years now). As long as you're studying, the loan doesn't accrue interest, and you don't need to make down payments.
Throughout five years, I received very roughly 200k NOK (≈20k USD) in stipend, and 300k NOK in loans.
Also, a PhD is treated as an ordinary job here. I'm paid about 600k NOK (≈60k USD) per year, which is a bit less than my peers from engineering studies in industry jobs (they get around 700-800), but it's by no means a bad pay. I've been able to afford a small apartment together with my SO on that pay. Hearing about places where people have to take up loans in order to finance taking a phd makes my head spin.
In America you usually do get paid for the PhD, you however get little other support snd the pay is bad
What do you mean by "little other support"? I don't get any other "support" from my job as a phd than my salary?
Little other support as in it's common to take on more phd candidates than there are resources for leading to issues like needing to fight to get lab time. At least according to some people I know who've been in phd programs here.
Huh. I just kinda assumed Norway would use the Euro, but TIL it's not even a member of the EU. Weird.
We are part of the EEA. The agreement between the EU and the remaining EFTA members. (Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland.) For Norway's part it means we adopt the legislation as national law (we can veto, but seldom happens) and are part of the inner market but not the customs union. Also special agreements on energy (oil) agriculture and fishing. We have no representation in the parliament or the commission. We participate on beurocratic level but cannot vote on anything. (I represent Norway in two 'group of experts" and two administrative cooperation groups) GoE discusses things on a higher level AdCo lower level and market surveillance. We have a voice, but always a little bit apart.
We have a "complicated" relationship to the EU. There was a vote in the '90s where we decided not to join, and now we're connected through the EEA (which another comment treats in detail). Today, the EU debate is rising again, largely because of the war in Ukraine. However, it seems like public opinion is still marginally opposed to membership due to our somewhat special situation regarding oil, hydropower, and (lack of) agricultural land.
Have a friend who was a sort-of perpetual grad student - bouncing from Sweden to Italy to Australia - over about ten years, pursuing a degree in marine biology. Along the way, she contributed thousands of hours of labor to various research teams. Eventually, she got burned out, married a neurologist, and moved to a small house in Queensland. Now she mostly just gardens and raises bunnies, which she is extraordinarily good at thanks to her education.
Was this money wasted or did the universities get exactly what they paid her for? Idk. But it seems a far better way to employ people than what we've done with The Pentagon or ICE.
From where I am anyways. You do get paid for grad school. You have to TA various things, but you get paid.
Students benefits are pretty much that where I live
It is in first world countries, if we define first world as having good educational system, healthcare system, public transportation…
American public universities used to be free. But a lot of students protested things like racism and the Vietnam War so Ronald Reagan as governor of California and later as president worked hard to ensure that American students had to pay lest they have the time and financial freedom to exercise their rights
Huh, never even heard of them not that would mean anything in the world 😅
They research a bunch of great stuff. A friend of mine was involved in this one vaccine against crack and cocaine addiction from UFMG.
Probably a lot of missing context with this one
He did the plumbing for the brother's place.
Set up the toilet to pipe to the kitchen sink. "eat shit" as they say.
shrug
Give it 5-10 years and every college age person being funneled into the trades, then they will be oversaturated again and we will go back to overpacking STEM
My wife graduated law school in 2010, Summa Cum Laude, and just barely got a job at a low rent firm.
Five years later, she's earning twice the money at a much nicer place for not much more work, because the glut of students from '08-'10 caused grads in '11-'14 to look elsewhere. Suddenly there was a huge supply gap and you could write your own ticket.
Moral of the Story: Get good at something and stick with it. Markets go up, markets go down, but skills pay the bills in the end.
It’s almost as if the real problem is opportunity. Hmm.
We need jobs programs
Oh. I hadn't read it like that. I thought the brother was a hypocrite because if he has a PhD he SHOULD be able to pay his debts and get a hose (I'm not from the us so I'm guessing that part) but I stead seems to not ba able to manage his own money while criticizing OP
College graduates (PhD or otherwise) drowning in debt and not being financially able to pay it off is common enough here in the US that it's a trope, and likely the basis for this "joke".
I see. Thanks. Lately I've started to realize just how expensive health and education are in the us.
I went to see a neurologist and paid 0 cents My brother is considering a biology PhD and he's broke. A 3 bedroom house costs like 60k usd
That same house in my area costs at least 10 times that amount. I was lucky in that I had "only" $80,000 of debt from my bachelor's, a housing situation via marriage, and a career path with solid pay (after going back for an associate's while working in a low-paying job post-graduation for 7 years). I only finally paid off that debt 2 years ago and I graduated in 2008. I don't know how a lot of people manage.
Oh no PhDs here are like the worst financial choice.
I became a homeowner recently and a bunch of people I know just reacted with absolute jealousy and negativity. People suck
I mean, depending on the context, you might absolutely be the asshole
People typically get paid to earn a PhD, so this person's debt likely came from elsewhere, unless they grossly overpaid for their undergraduate education.
thats probably it, undergrad in a expensive college is way more likely., or if hes did a MS as well, which is tuition only as well.
Don't forget that loans are probably deferred through the PhD, so that's like 4+ years of accumulated interest on top.
If they're proper student loans then interest doesn't accumulate while you're a student.
Ph.D. in what?
ayy
Pretty huge dick
PH.Deez nuts
I haven’t been to 9gag in forever, not sure if this is a really bad meme or a great shitpost
I have a lot of respect for the people that do it but I couldn't. I have two left hands and am fairly skittish when it comes to human excrement.
Then it sounds like HVAC/Refrigeration it the trade for you. It's kind of funny because we tend to get all the people who dropped other trades for various reasons. I work with ex plumbers who didn't want to deal with shit, I work with journeyman electricians who didn't want to spend 8 years becomming a master electrician, I work with ex building automation guys who got tired of trying to automate busted equipment. A lot of my coworkers started in other trades, went "This fucking sucks" and switched to HVAC-R.
It's not all just poopoo peepee stuff. A lot of plumbers do mechanical work in commercial buildings, boiler retrofits, repiping, construction. I'm in commercial HVAC and work with a bunch of plumbers whose skills and scope of work have great overlap with mine. I've also helped them out doing boiler retros/repipes. We offer similar services, subcontracting each other to our own customers, just they do more of the gas fired work and fix leaks in heating loops and I do the AC/Refrigeration stuff
That's a pipe fitter
Yes there are multiple pipe fitting trades. Plumbing, AC/R, steam, gas.
There’s other hand-craft trades that don’t involve sewage. If you get into the commercial space, there’s a good chance you’d deal with it a lot less if at all since they would need a specialist for biohazards.
You haven't lived the Great Australian Dream?
Where would you rather be mate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEt0dXsxORE
Plumbing isn't exactly rocket science. And with some infra companies you don't have to deal with any nasty parts.
Depends on what level you're at. I had a friend help us install a new septic system. Holy shit was there a lot more to it than I ever guessed. Had no idea surveying gear was required.
At a higher level, same guy drafts plans for military bases and hospitals. Then he goes in the field to troubleshoot issues. Plumbing includes gas if applicable!
Most of us are familiar with, if not doing the work, the principles behind fixing a leak, replacing a sink or toilet, etc. I can do all of the above, but I don't know the fine points in doing it right. There's far more to residential plumbing than most see.
In my experience a lot of those jobs are handled by more specific people I wouldn't exactly call just plumbers. There's far more to it than people realize for sure but it's still not rocket science.
Out of the 8 cousins in my family the 2 of us that didn't go to college are the only ones who own a house. I didn't finish 10th grade and I'm looking at buying my second house and trying to figure out how to keep my current one to give to my mom.
My cousins are pretty cool (aside from a couple who are very spiteful) but my aunts and uncles act like I scammed them all for everything they had.
Too many people don't understand supply and demand. Trades people are always in demand. Just another guy with some joke college degree is not.
Pretty sure that didn't happen
Nothing unbelievable about it imo
Your personality didn't work out, but mine did? Oh, how my dominance displays! I have no justification for my existence!
So why are they not helping their brother?
Their brother is a grown-ass man and should be helping himself.
He should pull himself up by the bootstraps to proove his manly manliness?
I love how we all agree on the general problem of capitalism but God forbid we apply it in our daily life.
Decisions have consequences. Brother 1 chose to be 140K in debt. Brother 2 didn't. It's not Brother 2's problem to solve.
Nah, they decided to buy a more affordable car with only a 3-star crash rating because they decided to get stressed about their only financing option being complete dogshit because of a wrecked economy, because they decided to have a job that required going into the office.
Sure, but nobody would choose to be in a car crash.
Bro chose to go into debt. Big difference.
If that's how you see our familiar relations sure, you're your own individual. But boy I'd hate to be your family member.
"I chose [X] of my own free will. Now I'm unhappy with that choice. Fix it for me." No.
"Events outside my control have made things hard. Help?" Yes.
See the fucking difference?
Nah, no one would choose to be in debt.
Bro chose to get an education. Big difference.
He chose to get an education he couldn't afford, so he took out loans. Now he is in debt.
Either he did this with his eyes open, in which case it's his problem to solve,
OR
He did this WITHOUT knowing the consequences, in which case he should have fucking read the fine print and it's his problem to solve.
I agree the cost of education is out of control, but nobody forced him to do it. He chose to. Now he can deal with it.
What makes something somebody's problem to solve, exacly?
Probably them choosing to do the thing. Someone doing a PhD might be hoping to land a good job later on and be able to through that pay off the debt. Or they want to pursue their passion, even if it means debt. It's a decision to go for those. Could've gone to trade school.
You mean pay off the other brother's loan or what?
I love it when posts line up like this