Spyke
lemmy.ca

I mean if Cyprus and French Guiana can join so can Canada if we can meet the requirements. It’s a political alliance of values.

66
macnielreply
feddit.org

But then we would share two borders with the USA :/

33

That would be the first step in claiming back what once was ours ;)

12
Libbreply
piefed.social

The European Union could help safeguard those borders.

Since we/The EU will be soon buying even more US weapons, I seriously doubt that.

What was once a region of the world populated with so many smart and bright people has now become the proud land of the dumb. The EU is like a headless chicken running around. And it seems rather happy about what it has become, I'm afraid to say so.

0
huppakeereply
feddit.nl

And it seems rather happy about what it has become

There are people happy about what it is becoming*

The EU is not a finished project :)

3
Libbreply
piefed.social

There are people happy about what it is becoming*

Thx for helping me improve my lacking English. Much appreciated (I mean, really ;)

The EU is not a finished project :)

Are you sure about that?

I mean, looking at who people are actually voting for (here again, an existential grammar doubt if you don't mind me asking: should I instead say 'who they voted for' or 'who they vote for' as it's an ongoing and repetitive action but also an already finished task since, obviously, we can count their votes?) Back to what I was saying: people are voting not for the EU and have been voting not for the EU more and more openly. And to me votes is the only data worth considering when discussing politics, not what people may say out loud. Their vote is them being honest with themselves, not trying to look good.

Like with our dear US-friends swearing they hate on Trump and on his politics but still have elected the dude twice.

Should we think Trump is really just that, a sad accident that happened twice (almost) in a row in the history of the USA, or wouldn't it be safer to consider the possibility that, maybe, a majority of the US population is indeed supporting what they voted for twice and that they want their country to become exactly what it is becoming? And they want their leaders to treat the rest of the world like they're doing?

As a fervent EU proponent myself, I wish to see some meaningful election giving me hope we still have some common future as a Union, and not just because we share some common borders.

1
huppakeereply
feddit.nl

my lacking English

Your English wasn't incorrect, it's that disagreed with what you wrote. You used it has become which is the tense you use for something completed (as in, it has finished), while I believe it is not completed and for that reason wrote is becoming which is the same verb but in a different tense (as in, it is happening). I'm no native speaker, so might not be the best explanation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think in your last comment all forms are all correct, and the tense in which you the verb to vote has different nuance but i wouldn't think something of it in this particular case. If you use 'are voting for' you basically mean how people would vote if they would have to vote today (or this week) and you would use 'voted for' mainly if it is relevant that it is different then how people would vote today. (Will) vote for, is voting for, will be voting are basically interchangeable, unless I am missing the nuance myself. You explain it correctly yourself so I think you understand it but I made you doubt yourself. Sorry for that.

Are you sure about that?

There are many politicians who consider the EU as not fully formed. The changes don't happen very fast, but it is in my view still an ongoing proces. For example, which countries are part of it continues to change (England left and others joined, more will likely join later), the euro itself hasn't changed but the countries it is used in still changes (Bulgaria is expected to switch over to the Euro next year) and also what is and isn't in the Schengen area changes, even this year with Gibraltar joining.

Another example of how, according to some, the EU would be more finished is with a 'multi-tier membership options', in which some countries have a tighter bond to the EU and others have a looser (think of how Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU, but they are not entirely outside of it either).

There is lot has already been decided, so maybe it is already 90% finished, but there still is an ongoing debate on what the EU should end up looking like.

Since brexit leaving the EU hasn't looked like a very attractive option but still there is a lot of discussion on whether the EU should be smaller (e.g. having borders controlled by each individual member-state) or bigger (e.g. having a single combined army). In other words, there is still room to decide on what topics the EU should be big and on which it should be small. That makes the EU as it is right now very different than the US for example, where most of the expansion and integration happened two to three centuries ago (around the civil war mainly I think, but I'm no expert on US history either).

2

Thx, once again.

To be clear, I was half trolling (half only) with my rhetorical question but reading your comment I would not be surprised to realize we agree on a lot of things.

What truly worries me is the speed and the extend at which so many anti-eu parties have become politically meaningful.

I mean, I don't care at all if they're being funded by a foreign country but I do care to realize our own population is now that gullible and clueless as to believe their shit. I mean, do people have never read a history book?
I also don't mind those parties existing, people are more than welcome to have their own ideas and to try to convince others to support them, even when I consider those ideas not the best ever. But them becoming a legit political force means they're convincing enough of us to support their ideas, which should be the real issue. Imagine a flat-earther becoming to new head of a major science department: their silly ideas is not the issue, it's how they managed to get to that post that should worry all of us.

Meanwhile, we have so few legit political leaders standing for the EU that are able to convince anyone. That's not good.

Exactly like I worry to see illiteracy and hostility towards culture in general become the new normal among younger generations in the EU, too. Nothing good can come out of that trend, only more hate and more violence. Here again, it could help if people would read a history book, once in a while... but for that younger people should be taught how to properly read and then how to use what's written in a book.

As for the EU membership, I'm one to think there should be a tiered EU memberships. Doing so, we would be able to welcome more new members quicker and then we could give time to all parties to get to know one another better and get used to living together and, well, get enough time to make sure we can all agree on some fundamental values and principles... like that should be the case in any lasting union (says I, after almost 30 years and counting with my spouse). The sad thing is that this tiered thing exists already but, unsurprisingly, only for the monetary aspect of the Union. It’s so... easy to hate on the EU sometimes, no wonder many won’t refrain of doing so.

Since brexit leaving the EU hasn't looked like a very attractive option but still there is a lot of discussion on whether the EU should be smaller (e.g. having borders controlled by each individual member-state) or bigger (e.g. having a single combined army).

Brexit... The morning I heard the news, it was so... I was... I just could not believe that thing really happened and that any politicians could be that incompetent and dishonest and willing to screw their own people so badly. To me, that Brexit campaign was but a scam devised so they would be allowed to redistribute power between the various groups but it never meant to end as an actual exit out of the EU. Obviously, I was wrong.

Whether we like or not, whether we think there is a reason to worry or not, the huge political shifts we've recently been witnessing coupled with the constant and ever growing hysteria in the media and with the fast growing illiteracy in the population, all things we now seem to consider the new normal, those should decide a lot of that for ourselves.

1
piefed.social

French Guiana is only part of the EU because it's part of France, and even then it needs plenty of exceptions to make it work.

Cyprus was already aligned with the rest of Europe in economic laws.

Canada would need to redo half of its laws to join the EU, and Canadian companies would either need to produce two versions of everything or drop the US market altogether.

It's more realistic to aim for a close bilateral treaty than for membership, at least for next few decades.

28

Yeah, these opinion polls really should be more taken as a desire to move closer (as the article says). I doubt the people voting actually know everything that joining the EU would entail, but it's still valid as a general "getting closer to the EU".

6
sh.itjust.works

How is Cyprus controversial as an EU member? Because it's far enough to technically be Asia? Still very much European values, language, history etc. It's also only a stone's throw away from the nearest Greek island

13
lemmy.zip

I mean french guiana is literally a part of france. Its an overseas territory so its handled as an island or whatever not a colony. The most disgusting thing isnt that canada is in north america but that the eu would need to border the usa...

7

I would see a northern wall in the future if this happened. I could honestly see it even if it never happened, the US doesn't trust Canadian or EU immigration policy.

1
lemmy.ca

I love these "nearly half" declarations of support the media likes to gin up.

So..."less than half", then?

43
seejurreply
lemmy.world

It's more about the trend. Last year almost no one thought it would be a good idea. So the implications is "shortly more than half might want to join the EU" or "Canadians are approaching the majority threshold"

24

It's also a bit useless to just give the one number and not the complete results.

This could mean 46% in favor, 15% neutral / undecided, 39% against, which would put the overall sentiment in favor of joining, or it could be 46% in favor, 54% against, which is a completely different situation.

--- edit --- Just re-read the article, I have missed the numbers, sorry.

So it's 46% pro, 29% against, which puts the sentiment clearly to pro....

11

Well, you are not wrong. But if you think about it it's still a pretty significant percentage considering Canada is one ocean distant from Europe, and has always had historically relations, economically and politically with the USA, obviously given the fact they share their only border with them. So in my opinion the number gets more weight, maybe. Probably some years ago it was much lower, or they didnt asked themselves the question at all.

6
lemmy.ml

Not sure how that would work since they aren't on European continent, but then I remembered we have Australia in Eurovision so I'll allow it. Just because Canadians are cool.

28
JoeBigelowreply
lemmy.ca

"Its all Europe?"

🔫👨‍🚀

"Always has been"

12

2125: and today the citizens of Luna have concluded their referendum and voted in favour of joining the European Union

2
lemmy.world

I welcome the Canadians into the European Union!

Is what I would say, but I really, really, REALLY don’t want a border with the US. Russia alone is bad enough.

24
lemmy.ca

Okay not a direct comparison but if I was playing a Paradox grand strategy game and the neighbor country started getting all fascist / authoritarian, I would want to group with like minded nations for protection. Hey we're already in a defense treaty with them why not make it a more inclusive type agreement? Personally I always felt culturally closer to the UK (yes I know not there anymore) than the US and thought many of our policies mirrored the US due to location and held us back.

16
Allemaniacreply
lemmy.world

if we see the EU and US as two polar opposites I would see the UK as the intermediary for the EU, and Canada be the intermediary for the USA. Realistically though the UK is much more pro-USA than Canada currently. Starmer is so scared of getting the UK back into the trajectory of EU membership, that he actively hurts the UK relations to the EU AND the USA by not picking a side. We don't want the UK as a backdoor for the US to influence our politics again, we want a self-relying and souvereign United Kingdom back. Charles De Gaulle warned us in the 1960's that a english membership would for the most part represent the interests of the americans on european soil. And with Starmer, we are seeing exactly what De Gaulle warned Europe about. So yes, we would love to take the UK back, but not as a puppet state. We already have Hungary and Slovakia being puppeteered by the cunt called Putin that we need to worry about and act upon. Currently I see canadians more as europeans than I see british people

2

Well I was more just meaning when I was growing up and this is going back to the late 80s - 90s. I saw a lot more British television than other European TV (in fact none of other) so didn't exactly have much else to compare it to in the EU that was. From that and knowing they offered some good services such as post secondary education, healthcare etc it felt like a nicer fit for my ideas. Plus the amount of British words we tended to use.

1

As an American, I endorse the idea. It would make it harder for Canada to be attacked, or worse, destroyed by Dogey America. Plus, it would allow the Free States of America to have a potential ally or trading party, better means for non-coms to flee from the conflict, and so forth.

It also works out for Canada, since that means having stronger trade connections with Europe. Considering that Dogey America is going to be an annoying prick and no longer a viable partner, having a solid trade network would help keep Canada prosperous.

16

I believe it will be a positive alliance for both Canada and the EU. Canadians are welcome!

15
lemmy.ml

I hope they get to join. Meanwhile, here in the UK, we are further along the Trump path.

14
aussie.zone

Its almost like watching one of those animations of how pangea split into the different continents watching countries seperate and re-form - but politically instead, bringing some countries together and others splitting away.

3

Don’t tell the Republicans that. They think the planet is only 2025 years old

3

Yeah but canucks in the EU means Europe now has a border with the US which raises concerns also

2

As a EU/French I vehemently oppose that idea unless we get to see the Canadian mounted police to parade here on the Champs Elysée, this next 14th July :p

12
lemmy.ca

Let's start with Schengen zone membership and see how we feel after that. The currency would be a hard sell.

12

Maybe an EU adjacent status like Norway would be sufficient. But yeah, probably best to just wait and see. I'd appreciate closer cultural ties too. More sustainable basis for a long-term partnership than just business stuff.

16

True, but all new members sign an agreement that they will eventually join the eurozone. It's not enforced and there is no pressure to do so, but on paper they agree to it.

11
Revan343reply
lemmy.ca

The UK had special dispensation as a founding member of the EU; if they were to return to the EU today, they would have to give up the pound

0

They were not a founding member and even had their application vetoed by France before joining a decade later, but still well before the creation of the euro.

8

Go for it Canada and the EU should send an invitation. Perhaps they should start with EEC membership and later receive full membership. MAGA would shit and f-them.

10

It’s been a movement here for over a decade now, surprised support is so low

9
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Step 1: Be USAmerican, non rabid Trump sycophant/cult member variant.

Step 2: Attempt to gain legal residency in Canada

Step 3: ¿?¿??¿¿??¿?

Step 4: I am now European.

9
lemmy.today

I would like the option. Being an American citizen is now like not unlike a soiled piece of toilet paper: Unpleasant and not worth keeping. After all, Project 2025's backers don't give a damn about citizenship or American society.

7
sp3ctr4lreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Ok here's the plan:

Move to Minnesota.

Canada joins the EU.

Minnesota joins Canada.

Probably not likely to happen or work, but uh... fucking who knows these days.

7
huppakeereply
feddit.nl

There are a lot of in demand jobs, from nurse to developer if you don't mind working in those specific fields you can skip a lot of those steps.

3
sp3ctr4lreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I am unfortunately currently disabled... got maimed, my full time job is PT for myself.

I do have decent job experience as a software dev, db admin, data analyst... but yeah I am kind of fucked at the moment, legs fucked, barely mobile, wrist is fucked, can't type for more than short bursts.

The PT is working though, and I have considered various kinds of skilled tech laborer style visa applications... but its all gonna have to wait untill i both figurstively and literslly get back on my feet.

2
huppakeereply
feddit.nl

Sorry to hear that, hope you recover soon. Wish you the best!

2
fedia.io

I appreciate the thought and the vote of confidence. Unity against the US would be nice. But, I'm afraid of the US influence in Canada. It's bad enough in the EU, but Canada probably is worse.

My conditions in order of importance, if I had any power at all, would be (and maybe Canada already has these):

  • no "winner takes all" or first past the post anywhere - single transferable vote or ranked choice voting
  • separation of church and state
  • wealth tax aka "tax wealth, not work", it'll pay for a bunch of the below
  • free public education
  • universal healthcare without stupid deductibles
  • the ability to live without a car in any place with more than 5k people i.e public transport FTW, high speed trains, buses, metros and trams, fuck cars
  • opensource in all public services
  • no deals with the US defence industry (although the EU council just made idiotic concessions)
  • house the homeless
  • state funded TV

Those are off the top of my head. Given more time, I'd probably come up with more, but I think those are the basic things I'd care about.

Edit: Yes, I'm aware most EU members don't have this, but Canada could be a lighthouse, guiding the rest of the members. It would probably see a huge influx of Europeans if those things were to be implemented.

6

Edit: Yes, I'm aware most EU members don't have this, but Canada could be a lighthouse, guiding the rest of the members. It would probably see a huge influx of Europeans if those things were to be implemented.

From what it looks like I wrote that a full two hours before your comment.

0

Canada is well on our way. Lots of support for proportional representation voting, separation of church and state yes (Canada is much less religious than the states except maybe Alberta), ways of taxing the wealthy through capital gains tax etc, education so free up until university and then tuition is lower for Canadians and federal student loans are at 0% lending, universal health care no dedications already in place. I think Europe might not understand how vast and far Canada is so public transportation can be really challenging but yes city’s have ok public transportation and better would be great. I don’t know about opensource or defence contracts so I won’t speak to those. Better housing options for homeless would be great. And we have state funded TV, CBC which we’re very proud of!

4
9point6reply
lemmy.world

Versus FPTP, which funnels votes to 2 big parties, forces strategic voting and discards everyone else's opinions?

Ranked choice allows the politicians in a country to see what people actually want. There's been countless elections in my country where I'd have voted Green if I knew that vote would then be transferred to the party of my preference, rather than effectively being a vote for the party I like least (as a third party vote is in FPTP).

If the incoming government knows the only reason they got in was down to a load of transferred green votes, they would be pressured to push for a policy agenda more skewed in that direction and in theory should result in a government more representative of the people that voted for it

3
lemmy.ca

I’m advocating for the single transferable vote not first-past-the-post. The results show that with the alternative vote the big parties are much more overrepresented in the makeup of the seats in parliament meaning that they will be less likely to listen to you. We need to have the seat makeup match up with the percentage of the votes.

3

Ah apologies, I missed that. STV is good too, the Scottish use that and it results in good representation for everyone

3

It is but when people are talking about ranked-choice they usually mean the instant run-runoff ranked ballots. But here they listed them as separated.

1

I would recommend looking at the Norwegian system, where each region elects multiple candidates proportionately to the local votes, and all parties above a certain percentage nationwide shares a pool proportionally as well. It's not perfect, but it gives a sane amount of different parties without the inevitable deadlocks of 100-party systems. The national pool limit can tune the approximate number of viable parties.

2
feddit.nl

If Canada joins EU that would make it the union less a European union, not saying I would mind that but we're gonna need a better name. Maybe invite Australia & New Zealand as well. Need to be quick though, before UK snatches them up.

Hear me out, wild plan: why not free the russians & add that as well.

4

100%. We should persuade Canada to join Eurovision. They have some great artists and both English and French are easier to get votes with lol.

3
Aqariusreply
lemmy.world

Would be funny to drag in all of the commonwealth except the UK

7

Well they wanted to leave, and maybe the rest of the commonwealth and the EU want something different.

1
lemmy.world

Just a step on the inevitable road to one world polity. We should really be working out a roadmap to a world where everyone is a citizen of a worldstate with freedom to move, travel and trade freely regardless of where they were born. Basic rights should be protected everywhere by global enforcement, Borders should be administrative niceties and people should be free to migrate to areas which reflect their social and religious preferences in a global freemarket of societies where the most beneficial policies result in people voting with their feet.

4

My personal prediction is (if we manage to make it that far) that the world will first start coalescing into supranational states such as the EU and African Union, after which these states will merge into a international superstate. Idk what timeframe this would be in, certainly not within our lifetimes, and who knows what kind of shape they will take on, but I feel like it's inevitable.

Another thing I was thinking off is that probably all of the world's cultures and languages will merge into one. The reason they exist at all is because of the fact that communication and travel was extremely difficult on any sort of distance thousands of years ago. With the advent of the Internet and faster travel methods, I feel like its only a matter of time before all of the world's cultures melt into each other. I'm sure there would still be minor regional differences, but it's probably gonna be much more uniform than today.

1

Would it be awesome to be able to move and in the EU? Oh yeah, it would be great. However, the practicality of reality is that either Canada would have to completely overhaul laws and standards to be line with the EU would be absolute nightmare. Either Canada would have to adopt EU standards or gets a carve out making Canada not really part of the EU.

Alberta and Quebec already hate having Ottawa tell them what to do. Having Brussels have an influence on Canadian life? Even more of a reason to separate. Which means another constitutional crisis for Canada.

Canada should instead work to build stronger ties with the EU. Trade deals, research coordination, defence policy, immigration, etc.

2

Although I’d love the Canadians to fly the blue-starred flag and to adopt Ode to Joy as their second anthem (sincerely, we EU-sians have the absolute best anthem in the world), I have two words that will break any chance of this being possible:

Fishing rights.

1
piefed.social

I'd be hesitant to join if it means giving up monetary sovereignty.

That's a huge shackle on anything the federal government could do fiscally.

The idea of gaining protection from us crazy Americans? Totally valid.

-1
lemmy.ca

There are countries in the EU that do not use the Euro. We can keep our loonies.

11
Jesus_666reply
lemmy.world

Those are typically early joiners who got special conditions. The idea is for everyone to adopt the Euro at some point. (The UK wouldn't have but that's moot since they left. If they rejoin they most likely won't get that special treatment anymore.)

7

The only one (left) with a special condition is Denmark. All the other countries must adopt the euro once they reach some conditions (and then you have Sweden who doesn't meet the conditions on purpose...).

3

The EU won't push for adoption of the euro when it would hurt the economy though. Yes Canada would lose autonomy over their fiscal policy but only once they agree it would be a win-win in the economic sense. I know there are a lot of situations in which not having that fiscal autonomy sucks (for example when inflation in your country is very different from the overall eu avarage) so I can't say if it would be worth it or not, I am no economist but it'd never be implemented at all costs or rushed because of some agenda.

1
0x0reply

I’d be hesitant to join if it means giving up monetary sovereignty.

Wise of you.

1
lemmy.world

Love Canada, but European union... is European...?

-2
Maalusreply
lemmy.world

Gotta love it when people think words have some magical meaning that cannot change ever and hold everyone hostage

10
Kokeshreply
lemmy.world

"European union" has a meaning - it is a union of European countries. Not much room in that. It's little different case, than idiotic Eurovision, that has competitors from elsewhere.

Also how would that work? How would you harmonize the regulations and laws between Canada and EU countries? I'm all for working together, but this idea is truly nonsense.

4

From a European point of view, we’ve had a lot sketchier jurisdictions join and I’m sure Canada could do it as well

3
jsomaereply
lemmy.ml

I disagree. European Union is a union of countries, named as such because it was founded in Europe.

0
Kokeshreply
lemmy.world

The EU is both an economic and political entity. It has a single market with free movement of goods, services, capital, and people. It also has common policies on trade, agriculture, fisheries, and regional development.

How would this work with Canada?

1

I'm not claiming it would. I'm disagreeing with your semantic argument:

“European union” has a meaning - it is a union of European countries. Not much room in that.

2

I mean Israel is in Eurovision so....Wouldn't you like Our Lady Peace or Matthew Good to compete in that too? Sloan is also really great. I won't mention the obvious ones...

2

Caneurion union

Euranadian union

<gestures broadly> union

3
lemmy.ca

I don't mind exchanging good ideas and having treaties with Europe, but joining the EU is definitely too far.

We don't need more super-national organization binding us.

-3

ridiculous.
To get away from the US they want to join the union of US vasals

-7
lemmy.world

Europe’s going far-right & ramping up the military again. No surprise that the countries who sheltered Nazis want to get in on the Fourth Reich.

-16
Bloomcolereply
lemmy.world

2025 germs are at least as bad.
Only now they've replaced jews with muslims as scapegoat.
And as always on the wrong side of history, with full support for zionist genociders and US warmongers.

-3

Yup, and German police are already severely cracking down on dissent of the ruling status quo. Straight up arresting people for criticism of the government as we speak.

Except this time it’s a coordinated crackdown on every western country. This time they used financial means to takeover leadership in every country, before unleashing fascism in all of them at once.

1
Bloomcolereply
lemmy.world

Canada has a large influence from ukrainian WW2 nazis that were imported there en massa.
Freeland is an example of their horrible offspring.
The honoring of that nazi scum Hunka was in no way an accident.

-4
lemmy.world

Yup. And Freeland fought calls to investigate how many Nazis are still living in Canada, and fought to continue arms transfers to Nazi groups in Europe.

They’ve tried to erase this part of history, but prior to the breakout of WW2 the ruling class largely supported Hitler. They still do to this day.

1
Litreply
lemmy.world

Bloomcole is a known russian, razi propagandist bot. I can clearly see russia is still expanding territories like their old ex-friends (who backstabbed them). History and present event do not lie. Calling out russia razism behavior does not make me pro-west unless one is a naive fool or high on russia propaganda.

0
lemmy.world

Love when western propaganda bots blatantly out themselves like this.

0

And their "Victims of Communism" memorial.
Full of nazi names.

Then again, they already have a memorial for the SS division Galizien.
Even among the SS one of the worst with multiple warcrimes and mass murders commited.

0