I don't take my fiancée out for dinner because she doesn't know how to order off a menu.
My fiancée does not know how to order off a menu. Actually she does, she doesn't care to order from a menu like most people do.
Going out to eat with her is pretty much an hour long ordeal of me gritting my teeth while she racks up a bill 3x mine, all while trying nicely to steer her to just one item. She'll open the menu, get overwhelmed with options, and end up ordering a la carte from places that do not work that way, asking for endless substitutions and upcharges. As an example, at a restaraunt, she might not be able to decide between a burger or chicken tenders, so she'll ask for "a half order" of both of them, then she likes the sound of one specific dipping sauce that comes with another entree so she'll ask for a cup of that, etc. Etc. I'll say something before we go in, she'll promise me she'll just get a water, and then get a water - and a margarita. It's draining. At this point, we go out maybe once pr twice a year unless something forces us out more than that.
The scenario that prompted this rant was that tonight was one of those times. Our bill was $82.10. My entree plus water was $10.99.
Does she still do this when she's the one paying the bill?
The important question
Buffet time
Who are you, so wise in the ways of ordering?
This really is the way.
You could say this to anyone posting in /c/offmychest
this community is here to kinda vent and figure out what's up before you take that step.
It's a really good response for most of these problems, but yeah, the point is to get it out of your system and perhaps gain some perspective.
Yeah but communication is the solution to any relationship type problem - usually the problem is people just don't know what to communicate or how to communicate it.
I think you're right, it's foundational. I also think sometimes you gotta work out what you're trying to communicate first, and talking about it with somebody else is a great way to go about it.
I guess I feel the implied end goal is to discuss it with the person in real life, but it's not a bad thing to be explicit about it, too.
Have you tried going for something with a tapas format where it's expected to get lots of different small dishes?
Ooh, or dim sum! Love me some dim sum.
At the end of the day here's the truth of the matter. This will not change, and it will bother you for the rest of your time together. If this is actually annoying enough for you to post this here, it will only get worse over time. You're not gonna get used to it, you will likely grow to resent her for it. People don't change, not really. Decide now, this is a deal breaker or not. There's no way this behaviour doesn't bleed into other shit in your lives. Changing course this far into the game is hard, but I suspect that you already know what you wanted to hear from everyone the moment you posted this. Listen to your gut.
The honest advice here nobody likes to hear, but is the reality.
Occasionally people like this can change, but it takes some pretty serious life events to cause a behavioral change like that to stick. Something like a divorce, death in the family, personal near death experience, becoming destitute, watching something horrible happen in front of you, etc.
Point being, it's unlikely to change anytime soon.
Have you tried communicating with her?
Yes, works in pretty much every case, but he's likely trying to gauge his frustration with others to see if it's a big enough deal to bring up to her I'd wager.
Y'all should just go to a buffet or all you can eat style thing. Maybe hotpot or something
I once had invited a similar character into my life... a spoiled bitch that thought she's the center of the universe. In reality she would hate OP for suggesting something like a buffet, to cover up she wouldn't know how to behave. And it has to be expensive... she defines his "love" on the amount he spends on her.
I hope to fuck this isn't OPs girl.
or a sushi train, tapas
What's the root concern? Cost, imbalance, or inconvenience?
You should never worry about inconvenience to the restaurant or staff. Substituting is normal. If they can't do it, they'll tell you. Otherwise they'll happily provide the food and take the money. That's the social contract.
From your description, it looks like the main issue is #1 and #2. If so, a frank conversation should fix it. It may solve the problem, or uncover larger issues and expectations you should probably handle before getting married.
I am going to parrot what others are asking - what part of this is the biggest problem? If it's the expense, show her the bill. Tell her it bothers you that you don't treat the restaurant experience the same. Ask about why she doesn't like the canned options.
But you know - I don't think she is capital W Wrong in her approach, especially if you only go out to eat rarely. If she wants a variety, could you just order a bunch of appetizers for the table and share? We usually order for the table in expensive places, not for ourselves, we go one item at a time and share it, and that's one of the best things about the fancier restaurants. Or go to an Ethiopian place, they serve everything on one big injera for both of you.
Communication is the issue here I think - does she see it as "you are taking her out and want her to go indulge herself and enjoy" because going out to eat is entertainment and you see it as "I want to go out to eat because it's convenient and you are taking away the one benefit of going out to eat". And you are going to have to manage those competing desires in some way. I don't think it needs to be crazy expensive if that's what's bothering you.
How do you cook and eat at home? I really like to cook and can make food as good as we get when we go out, but if I want convenience my husband gets us takeout from somewhere. A restaurant is more for the experience not just the food.
Jesus.
Get out now, dude.
Nah, im just being dramatic, venting. She's literally great in every other aspect, financially speaking. We split rent 50/50, buy groceries separately, both contribute equally to a rainy day cash jar, etc. Etc. It's just that all of that responsibility goes out when she gets to a restaraunt booth. I'm not going to tank 6 years over that, just using the community for what its made for
My partner has a friend like this. We take her to a place we like, because it does have good food..
They then makes an endless series of modifications to a dish the place is known for, until it's utterly indistinguishable, and the back of house crew will be very annoyed. Then they complain that the food wasn't good.
That would drive me insane.
I'm glad your girl is otherwise a great partner, but are you worried other things like this might become evident once you've tied the knot?
I think it's time for a very honest conversation and try to get to the root of the issue, in addition to relationship counseling and possibly financial planning.
Or they just agree to go Dutch 🤷🏼♀️ he can just say "I have $30 budgeted for this meal, anything over that needs to come out of your budget"
That's kind of like a bandaid on tissue that's threatening to necrotize. It can be done, but the actual issue needs exploration and excision.
Just as the internet was meant to be. I genuinely hope things get better.
My wife was bad with restaurants, groceries, and utilities before we lived together. I took over rent entirely, and made her responsible for the rest. Shockingly, she started buying less junk food, became more conscious about power and water use, and orders more frugally at restaurants
Start splitting the bill so you each only pay for what you're eating yourselves. Jesus, man, the pussy can't be THAT good.
I’ll second this. While I’ve certainly never been in this situation, it’s a common strategy with friends. Actually I pushed this strategy when I started earning more, started loosening up and splurging more, and didn’t want to burden my friends
... As an addendum to a comment I made somewhere else on this:
Abso-fucking-loutely do not show her this post to prove a point! You won't be able to explain the context no matter how hard you try.
But, if you are looking to end the relationship with a quickness by all means, YOLO this shit. Get some video if you can anonymize it somehow.
We are just rando internet idiots. Don't be taking advice from us, if that was the intention. We are just here for the validation of your bias and some magic internet points.
Maybe she'd like a buffet where she can make her own plate. There are so many types of places that specifically do custom orders like sandwich shops and bakeries, along with pizza, buffets, and lots of cultural food types (Asian, Mexican, Italian, etc). Maybe try those options.
To a lesser extent, it is worth noting that some people like being ordered for. It would be wise to ask if that would work for her before attempting it, though.
Maybe it would help if you had a heart-to-heart about why this is bothering you and (together) make a plan to tackle this. From your description, it seems like the occasional margarita is not really the issue but it's the inconvenience to the staff, the embarrassment to you, and the costs that come with the dishes she orders. It might help to look at the menu online beforehand and decide on what you're getting in advance. You could even pick out two dishes together, and you could share a few bites, if you're okay with that. Her behavior seems to be at least a little compulsive, which is hard to get rid of but can be overcome with some practice.
I hate bothering the chefs by asking them to remove things from menu items. I'd rather eat something I don't want than do it.
This would be hell to me.
Do they at least acknowledge that they have problems with decision paralysis?
Ever tried checking the menu online before going out, and saying you can only go out if your partner picks a single item in advance? Not sure if that would help, though. This sounds like a very difficult situation. Good luck.
Attempt to talk about this like you are normal humans. If she listens to you and cares about your feelings, talking about problems matters.
If that doesn't work and you still really like the girl, refuse to take her out to a real restaurant again. Costco hotdogs only after that, period. She can customize the fuck out of as much ketchup and mustard as she wants.
Going out to a really good restaurant should be as much of an atmosphere experience as it is an experience with the food. A bad atmosphere will ruin the food for me and the atmosphere includes the people I am with.
Part of a healthy dining experience is being aware of the people I am with and making sure I am not fucking with their experience. It's a mutual effort.
When I am able, I will pay through the teeth for a perfect dining experience and it's super rare and super valuable to me. Day to day? A pickle wrapped in a slice of ham could work fine for a quick meal. Whatever. Even if your budget is less than $100, there is no reason that shouldn't be an emotional experience as well. (Everything is relative, is my point.)
Is she odd with food in general? Or just at restaurants?
Where are you going where an entree and water costs 10.99?
Is what bothers you about it that she is creating a significant expense you have to deal with, or something else? If it's not the something else, seems like a simple solution would be to just ask her to split the bill so she can be responsible for her expensive preferences. If it is the something else, why is it a problem?
Doors she do better if she can see the menu before getting to the restaurant?
If you want my advice, you didn’t really ask for it per se : one get a relationship counselor now. Number two get a financial advisor now.
Both of you need to be going to both of them. This is going to become a problem.
She might be excellent in all of the regards as you said in a comment already. But this is going to become an issue when your bill $10 and hers is 80 and she won’t stop doing it. This sort of situation doesn’t get better. It tends to get worse. It starts with the food and it goes from there.
Because even if you’re only going out once or twice a year newsflash my friend once you’re married, she’s going to be going out with her friends and that bill is going to get big and it’s gonna get big really really fast.
So I would say marriage/relationship counselor, and financial advisor.
At that point, order for her and see what happens.
Do you have separate accounts? If she pays for her own meal with her own money, nbd. But I’m guessing since you’re planning a future together you’ll also be commingling your finances at some point (if you haven’t already), and with this in mind I urge you to have regular financial planning and check-in sessions with each other to mitigate frustrations over different spending habits.
I didn’t have parents who were great with money, and I don’t naturally have a great head for numbers, so when I got married I had a lot of learning to do. My husband is the complete opposite and stays on top of things much more than I do, but financial spending, saving, and planning are important to be on the same page about. Personally, if I know we’re saving money for a particular project or trip or something, I make much better choices in the moment.
In your specific situation, my advice would be to agree on an amount you want to spend on the outing beforehand so you’re on the same page. This still gives her the option to modify her order to her tastes, she just has parameters to work within. If she completely disregards that agreement, you can always step it up old school with the money-in-an-envelope method, where you can’t fall back on a debit or credit card if you “accidentally” go over (although if I were in your shoes going this route, I’d stash a card on me for emergencies, but make her sweat just enough she feels the burn of her mistake).
The money aspect to this is the least relevant I feel.
Like in my own case if we go out for dinner whether my partners meal costs $20 or $100 doesn't really matter.
What does matter is the cringe. I would just feel so awkward when every other diner order's like "I'll start with the quail eggs and then the crab noodles for my main course" but my partner is like "right, ok, so, does do you have a gluten free option for the crab noodles? ... "
Is it possible she now feels like, "well we only go out like twice a year, this is a special treat, and I want to get exactly what I want!" (Mostly) Joking on that.
My only suggestion (that you didn't ask for) is that if she can't decide between a burger and tenders, maybe you get the burger and agree to split it with her getting the tenders. My husband and I do this (he doesn't love it so we don't do it often) but my sister and I always do it, that way we can get something healthy AND something indulgent
lol was that the chilis the three for me for $10.99? Literally when I got to chilis, I’ll get that $11 three for me, and my partner orders the salmon for like twice my meal. Very frustrating, but your situation is on another level... I have no advice other than don’t go through with the marriage if this is one of many, many things she does to induce “gritting of teeth.” Hopefully this is her like one quirk or something…
Hmm, but I bet their salmon meal was healthier. 🤔
Farmed salmon that’s frozen, cooked, frozen, then microwaved. Mmmmm…. Healthy meals at Chili’s.
That salmon still sounds more healthy than deep fried anything or something drowning in a bowl of melted cheese.
Just choose better restaurants that facilitate this type of ordering. You'll both be better off.
Most restaurants do "facilitate" this type of ordering in that they'll allow you to request whatever, but they will charge you for it.
Make her pay for her shit.
I can't afford to eat at places that use words like la carte and entree so not entirely what help I could be here. But I don't really see a problem in doing other things instead. I know I wish our friends would. Even cheaper places still feel pretty expensive and the food is something I could make for no effort at home by just chucking a packet into the oven.
I very much doubt this will make things more manageable.
For someone who's indecisive trying to hurry them along is counter productive, although getting her to look at the menu in advance might help.
Ordering for her is just going to put OP in harms way.
Nah mate. This is more like "start a fight with your partner to discover whether she's submissive". You sound like a bit of a jerk TBH.
If expectations were set ahead of time, this sounds like a lot of fun.
Run my friend... run fast and do not stop until you're out of her reach!
btw: In restaurants à la carte is the practice of ordering individual dishes from a menu in a restaurant, as opposed to table d'hôte, where a set menu is offered. It is an early 19th century loanword from french meaning "according to the menu". Your fiancee acts like she's the queen.
RUN!
This is a red flag. Don't turn fiance to spouse until you really think about this or get her to corrupt it. Never going to dinner will make any future dates exceedingly difficult.
But honestly, if she has this red flag, there are likely a bunch of others you aren't seeing. The level of inconsideration she has to have to let her treat other people this way is exceedingly high. Not just how she's treating the wait staff, but the imposition placed on the cooks, as well as how the experience is affecting you. She's at best extremely thoughtless and inconsiderate.
Edit:or don't, divorce is available later if things bother you bad enough
I do this - order a la carte and hold stuff. I try to be very nice about it. I don't want a 3 taco plate with rice and beans for $20, only to throw most of it away. I want a la carte one taco and rice. Everytime I get a salad without dressing, a burger without sauce, anything without cheese, etc., it gets questioned. Please stop trying to give me other dressings, different sauces, and cheese on everything. I get menu anxiety and usually check it before we go so I can make a plan, especially if we're dining with people I don't know well. Know that's it's frustrating for her too; extra frustrating if you're calling attention to it.
I might fundamentally disagree with you what a restaurant is. For me it's a place where hard working people get to share their cuisine with you. Most I'll ask at a restaurant is one alteration to one dish.
When I read the OP and your post, a restaurant seems like the place for you to get the perfect meal.
As Beau Miles puts it: "I plan on regretting what I'm eating at least once this week"
The restaurants I visit usually sell food, not cuisine. Ordering 3x the food I want seems wasteful and expensive. I don't think that skipping cheese (and associated diarrhea) makes it the perfect meal.
Different cultures! Dietary restrictions aren't optional though
Is the sex good at least? That’s the only reason I can see you staying with her.
How is this a “good” off my chest?
Edit: Thanks for the downvotes you dumb fucks, way to explain your rationale and simply dismiss people. Real “good,” uplifting community here.
I'll explain it:
Someone is asking a question and your being hostile to them - discouraging others to ask questions. So people are sending you a signal that your hostility isn't appreciated
Yeah I’m just bailing on this community. Droning on about your psycho partner doesn’t feel “good” to me.
It's a topic that often comes up when people vent. People feel better after they talk about their problems. Hence it feels good to get it off their chest.
Take a swing at her next time
I appreciate the advice, Mr. Connery, but dont know if its the best in the long run