Spyke
piefed.social

Trump just desperately wants to nuke something. Anything's fine, he just wants to drop a nuclear bomb on stuff. I mean, he was floating nuking a goddamned hurricane before.

He's like a toddler that sees a big red button and just HAS to push it, because it's just there and it's so big and red and it will make things go boom!

186
Etterrareply
discuss.online

While you're not wrong, in general, I personally think this might be an excuse for us not to bomb the place. Trump has got himself caught in a civil war between his own cult members, and he hates not being at the center of attention and obeyed unconditionally. This might be a way to placate both sides. He can tell the pro-war side that he can't use a weapon that'll do the job, and he can tell the no-war side that he's not gonna nuke it.

That way the Orange Jackass can wrench the conversation back to about how "he's more peaceful than anyone's ever seen before" or whatever bullshit he decides to vomit up.

31
lemm.ee

You're giving him waaay too much credit.
All he does is rant and complain, while doing what the Heritage Foundation people tell him to sign.

It isn't anything more complicated than that.

53

This. His fan base thinks he's playing 5D chess, while the liberals think he's playing chess, but in reality he's being allowed by his babysitters to throw checker pieces everywhere to divert attention.

26

He’s a psychopathic narcissist. He thinks he always needs to be at the center of attention. Wouldn’t call that complicated.

5

Not even a complete day later and we've used B2 bombers to bomb them

3

Tucker is only against this because he’s been paid by Putin right?

I assumed most of the Magats that are against the bombing Iran are paid shills. What’s Tim Pool’s take on it? (Disclaimer, I actually couldn’t give two shits what any of them think, we should be negotiating and solve this like fucking adults).

1

Just like the original video for Land Of Confusion where senile Reagan in a hospital bed pushing the NUKE button that's next to the NURSE button.

5

Not desperate enough, apparently. I’ve yet to see any of the people who were absolutely certain yesterday that a nuke was going to be dropped admit they were wrong.

2
lemmy.world

If the United States drops a nuke, the world needs to unite against us.

120
rhvgreply
lemmy.world

The world should do that now.

They kinda already are, looking at Gaza vote in UN.

68
fedia.io

The West for the most part isn't. Relations between Europe and America have gotten more antagonistic, but for the most part the former is toeing the latter's party line.

24
lemmy.world

I've recently seen a pic with election results in Germany, and it's spectacular - one block leading in former FRG, another block leading in former GDR (AfD), and it's very clean.

If you think about it, "Europe" has lots of political stability. No democratic uncertainty whatsoever. AfD pretends to be that, but really after that map I can't think so.

And the elites are fine with the way US is choosing. They'll just be the next on it, tinker a bit with the new stuff for their own convenience, soften some sharp bits.

It's rather that the rest of the world should unite against the west until it's too late. Pakistan and DPRK should share their nuclear toys so that everyone had a nuke.

The coalition of anti-western states, mostly totalitarian and not very nice, would in some bits work like Curtis Yarvin's (I know it's mostly wrong people dreaming of it) idea of paradise - the right of exit (changing a country among them) would de-facto exist, and every such state having nuclear deterrence would mean that those more attractive for immigrants won't be pressured to stop, which will mean slow evolutionary change for more liberty.

I personally think that (at some point) open immigration is what made the USA more democratic (except racism). Getting more and more different people of non-elite background willing to build a new life is a powerful source of constant hardly predictable change.

It's sad that I can't explain these ideas to people closest to me in their worldview, they are just a bit too conserved in their understanding, and for them I'm picking cannibals over "imperfect civilization" for some abstract benefit. But how is that different from "white man's burden", I'm not sure, except "white man's burden" implied some responsibility for what you're doing, and Kipling was kinda sad the British empire didn't find that responsibility in itself. I think it's the same or worse and the more cynical people understood this earlier.

0
Salehreply
feddit.org

Dude what are you on about? The previous German government collapsed.

That map you are talking about only represents which party was the strongest in that particular area. It does not specify by how much. In total 5 parties (ignoring that one Nordic minority party seat) made it into the federal parliament and two more parties came close to it.

This is the current federal seat distribution. Note that in Germany constitutional changes require a 2/3 majority. The far right CDU/CSU is extremely hostile to the Left party but so far does not want to embrace working directly with the AfD Fascists although they have done so "accidentally, wink wink" in the past.

Germany is not politically stable. The current government is running around largely headless, on most points directly opposing what they had said just before the election which was solely aimed at blowing everything up politically speaking. There is no long term strategy except for more racist and authoritarianism and a respectful and peaceful transition of power becomes less and less likely while Trumpist tactics are embraced.

The minister of the interior has announced to defy the courts to continue illegal deportations of asylum seekers, claiming that a recent court ruling would only apply in the specific case, despite that evidently not being the case.

7

Eh, if threatening nukes and vetoing Gaza ceasefires in the UN is all the justification we need, then we all should have united against China and Russia. That's the real crux of the issue, here, is that even as the USA is spiraling it's really only as bad as the other two top military powers at worst.

-1
lemmy.world

The right has been talking about nuking the Middle East for decades. They now have “one of theirs” (a “common man” who believes in the things the common MAGA believes), who is just stupid enough to actually do it. I’m taking things day by day.

21
lemmy.world

Nothing like nuking a part of the world you don't know shit about. They probably think it's a piece of desert with Disney characters (mostly centered around the capital of Agrabah and capable of hiding) and evil terrorists hurting our good Israel.

12
andallthatreply
lemmy.world

Thanks, I hadn't seen that. To be fair if they really have this itch to bomb a city, let it be Agrabah.

That magical energy they are developing can't be only for peaceful uses. They must be stopped! We should oust the current government and help Mr. Jafar be Sultan, I hear he's a very modern and business-friendly guy.

3
psoulreply
lemmy.world

Maybe we need to unite against ourselves too, can’t just hope on others to do the right thing, gotta pitch in.

2

Correct. Im sure half the country will join the resistance and fight from within. We do need to handle our own, but im talking about nukes.

2
discuss.tchncs.de

Especially, because the original article states „Trump is not considering using a tactical nuclear weapon on Fordow and the possibility was not presented by defense secretary Pete Hegseth and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Gen Dan Caine in meetings in the White House situation room, two people familiar with the matter said.“ while the linked article here implies that this option is considered.

30

I can't understand why anyone would believe anything a tangerine tyrant says he will or won't do, until we see it happen or not.

1
lemmy.world

Did you even read the article you linked? The fuckin "source" you got your panties in a bunch over arent even cited beyond, "according to people familiar with the deliberations." They dont even say its their own source in their own article you dolt.

-24

"according to people familiar with the deliberations."

Afaik that is synonymous/how journalist say "inside source".

11

To expand on Shrubbery, you can read the Guardian’s editorial standards and the base ones they follow: https://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/08/08/EditorialGuidelinesAug2011.pdf

according to people familiar with the…

In journalism, this is common lingo for “our journalists personally communicated with sources (more that one) that wish to remain anonymous.” It’s the guardian's legwork and integrity for shielding anon sources here, not them copying it from some other site (which they'd link if they did).

2

Most Americans might be against him, but the majority of those that voted voted for him. People's apathy and the DNC continually being useless helped Trump win.

22

Most Americans are against him.

I'll believe it when I see it. What I see is Trump and his ICE Brownshorts running all over the place with almost zero resistance.

11

Lol. No. Fsce rey reality of your country, otherwise you'll be unable to fix it.

4
NotSteve_reply
lemmy.ca

He has an almost 50% approval rating from Americans so while you’re technically correct, that’s still a ridiculous amount of Americans who like him

3
ZoopZeZoopreply
lemmy.world

That's not the statistic I've seen. It was in the 30s last I saw. Among Republicans it was still fairly high, like 60s, and higher among MAGA, but the general public was much lower. Can you cite a recent source for your number? Otherwise, I'll bolo for some updated numbers.

6
NotSteve_reply
lemmy.ca

These are the stats I found:

  • According to the most recent Gallup poll, Trump's job approval rating was 43% in May.
  • The Economist shows that 41% of people are favorable of Trump and 53% are unfavorable of him, according to the latest update from June 20.
  • Rasmussen Reports poll from June 20 showed 52% approval and 47% disapproval of Trump.
  • The Morning Consult tracker poll taken mid-June has dropped to 46% approval rating and 52% who disapprove.
  • Reuters/Ipsos poll reported that, as of June 16, 42% of those surveyed gave him a favorable approval rating of his performance in office.
  • An InsiderAdvantage poll taken between June 15-16 showed Trump with 54.4% approval over a 44.1% disapproval of his job performance.

From here

11
ZoopZeZoopreply
lemmy.world

Nice work, mate. Good on ya! (I'm watching Bluey with my kids right now) Looks like I've been outdated.

Well, the rest of Americans need to wake tf up. It's going to take most of us to right the ship. Fuck the rich, fuck the racists/sexists/homophobes/etc., and fuck any MAGAts who somehow aren't covered by the previous.

4

Fuck the rich, fuck the racists/sexists/homophobes/etc., and fuck any MAGAts who somehow aren’t covered by the previous

100% agreed

4

Ffs, by what half baked metrics are people rating that guy?

1

Most Americans are against him

Most Americans should have showed up to vote, then. Or not protest vote for a limp-dick 3rd party. As far as I'm concerned, most Americans are in support of what he's doing, because they didn't show otherwise on election day.

1

The only voter demographic that saw a decrease in the last election compared to 2016 was white men. If you’re going to cry “rigged election,” then you’re undermining democracy in exactly the same way the MAGA crowd does.

-1
lemmy.blahaj.zone

(not who you replied to) We can be anti-zionists without being pro-Iran. They have a horrific history of human rights abuses. Their sovereignty is being violated, but their government is not a good one.

5

No no. Not pro-Iran government, just curious what the specific reason are for calling it a shit country.

3

Trump is as dumb as a sack of hammers, and he’s looking for a nail. He just wants to treat nukes like playthings, a rich man’s flex. Just to say he did. Like a canned trophy hunt of a Lion from the safety of helicopters and trucks with everyone around him at his paid service. No risk, no personal jeopardy. Drop the bomb for lols just to experience the fact he did it and will brag about it.

49

If he drops a nuke, he instantly becomes the most dangerous man in history, they only guy willing to use a nuke for normal war purposes (for which there are nearly infinite alternative options), and to flex his ego (which has no limit). Now when he threatens a country, they will have to believe him, because he's done it before.

With that in mind, I would think nearly every nation with a highly organized covert intelligence service would decide that it's time to remove that threat from the planet.

8

Nuking them to prevent them getting nukes? Why do you think they want them in the first place? Now they will want them even harder. Should try to bribe their way into getting access to US nukes, just need a white supremacist asshole techbro to do the talking and they'll give you whatever you want.

31

Unleashing megagodzilla just to stop godzilla. So smart you couldnt believe it. Very rational and very cool

Over the series' history, the films have reflected the social and political climate in Japan. In the original film, Godzilla was an allegory for the effects of nuclear weapons, and the consequences that such weapons might have on Earth

8
lemmy.world

That oompa lumpa of ours just wants to drop a nuke. I vote we not and tell him we did. Also all of his press conferences and appearances henceforth will be accompanied by a 90's sitcom style laugh track.

30

We could just show him videos of nuclear tests and he would probably fall for it. Fucking idiot.

8

Jokes and laugh tracks are how humans normalize things, if anything it needs to begin with ’attention bajoran workers’ and some eerie music.

5
lemmy.world

They are trying to scare Iran into giving into what they want.

He thinks this is a genius plan.

It's stupid.

24

He will chicken out and give the nukes to them... And call it the most brilliant thing anyone has ever done

4
lemmy.world

Seems to me, like there is EXTREMELY, next to zero, or perhaps zero reason to ever HAVE to use a nuke. Nuke's should be a defensive deterrent, not a first choice. I'm sure the military has plenty of other options.

27
lemm.ee

There are 13k ton bombs that can penetrate pretty deep dropped by B2 bombers, which might be headed to the ME right now.

5

The B2s will be flown into Diego Garcia. The only time they will be in the middle east is if they are over a target. Hopefully they stay in Diego Garcia.

3

If you are not ready to use a nuke ever, it stops being a deterrent. Game theory.

But this situation is not the kind where a nuke is used as a deterrent. If Israel was saying they're sorry and asking for ceasefire, while Iranians would be absolutely destroying what remains of it and not listening, then yes.

Or, if Iran had a nuke and Israelis were succeeding in destroying Iran.

But neither are true.

5

I’m sure the military has plenty of other options.

The other option is the GBU-57 bunker buster bombs, which is what they used - but a single bomb like that isn’t capable of reaching deep enough on its own. So they had to use a significant portion of their stockpile to achieve their objective that way.

The alternative would have been to drop in special forces and have them break into the heavily defended facility the traditional way.

4
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Oh honey, read some of the norbert weiner type of nuke cult guys, and their Soviet counterparts.

This is a rabbit hole nobody wants anybody to ho down.

0
kreskinreply
lemmy.world

hole nobody wants anybody to ho down.

If this series of murderous far right zionist military adventures proves anything, its that American politicians will ho themselves down any hole.

3

Indeed, on Tuesday Trump said, “I don’t care” that the U.S. intelligence community has assessed that Iran isn’t building a nuclear weapon, according to his own top intelligence official.

23
lemm.ee

Well, they did it. Now Iran will lash out and close the straits of Hormuz. It's the only threat that they can carry out now...

18
feddit.uk

US Reportedly Assesses It Would Need to Drop Nuclear Bomb to Destroy Iran Nuclear Facility

Well, they did it.

No they didn't. It was conventional bombs, not nuclear.

19

Sorry forgot about the nuclear bit of the bomb. Regardless, I want to be drafted into the psychic corps for the upcoming world war regardless of talent

3
lemmings.world

...and we'll sink the ships, and have dogfights over the sea, and it will escalate, and hello World War 3!

8
Geoblokereply
lemm.ee

I was hoping they could wait a few more years so I'd be too old to be drafted, but looks like I'll be twerking in Tehran

8
lemmings.world

No, resist the draft. Drafts are evil, do ANYTHING to avoid fighting a MAGA War. My son is the perfect draft age, and he is NEVER going to fight for MAGA. If they want it so bad, the MAGAs can sacrifice their own.

5

Pakistan saying they would nuke Israel if Israel nuked Iran probably was the only thing holding Israel back from pulling the trigger. If there was ever a group of people who should never be permitted to have nuclear weapons, its the Israelis.

18
feddit.uk

President Donald Trump is not considering using a nuclear weapon, The Guardian reported on Wednesday

There’s no need to lose one’s mind over this. The headline isn’t saying a nuke should be used - it’s simply pointing out that a nuclear weapon would be the only thing capable of reaching a facility buried that deep under a mountain. The next best option would be the GBU-57 bunker-buster, but the U.S. would need to use a significant portion of its stockpile, since you’d have to hit the same spot multiple times to drill that deep. And even then, you’d likely only damage one section of the facility, with other parts protected behind blast doors.

13

Trump isn't "considering" anything. He's not a rational actor, he's a narcissistic egomaniac, unable to ask or take advice, unable to think about anything that isn't about how cool he is perceived.

13

So basically the won't destroy it and Iran will though horrible expensive an even deeper facilty and go for the bomb, now for real.

3
lemmy.world

I would have to think using nukes on a country that doesn't have nuclear power would be a slam dunk illegal order. Like, I mean, if he says to do it, the guys that make that happen, top to bottom, should say, "No, this is an illegal order, and i am not going to follow it."

If such an order is followed and nothing is forthcoming from some checking force in the federal government, I think i may have lost faith in humanity as a concept. This is the great filter. Can we be trusted as a species?

12
ricecakereply
sh.itjust.works

Upfront: it should be obvious that no sane person wants us to drop a nuke or thinks there's any connotation of "okay" to any aspect of it.

Why do you think it would be an illegal order? There are very clear rules on what makes an order legal or not and, horribly, attacking a nation that poses no real threat isn't on the list. What nations we attack is a policy matter, and the rules are very clear that the military doesn't get a say in policy.
Explicitly targeting civilians for a strike on a city is where the line would be. Targeting something else in the city and deciding the civilians are acceptable collateral damage is right on the line. Legally, it's entirely unambiguously evil morally.

There are checks that keep the president from unilaterally launching a nuke. Unfortunately, the intent of those is to ensure the president is legally competent and actually the president, not to ensure he's wise or rational.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Hering

The system has been explicitly designed to minimize the risk of conscience preventing a launch. Issue training orders where the firing crews have no idea if it's real or not. Keep them on two week rotations where they don't have access to the outside world so they wouldn't know. Specifically select for people who will follow the order because it's validcand legal, without considering the greater context. People who are legitimately confused but ultimately unconcerned with protests against them specifically doing what they do, including clergy from their own religion. (Actual story of an ICBM operators reaction to nuns protesting and attempting to block access to the missile site he was stationed at)

There is no doubt in my mind that if the order were given and the VP and cabinet didn't remove him, that the order would be followed.

10
lemmy.world

I suppose what I mean is that he doesn't just have a big red button on his desk labeled Iran that he can press when he chooses.

We've stood up a system over many years, and he's just barrelled through every norm/law/etc. up to and including having his sentence reduced to 0 on felonies, simply because he's a politician. If we cannot protect ourselves from this man launching a nuclear weapon, or even hold him responsible, then we don't deserve to survive beyond our planet and the resulting catastrophic collapse of society may be the best thing for the universe overall.

1

If we cannot [...] hold him responsible

Is him launching (or ordering to launch) a nuke considered as an official act? Just asking...

2

Don't get me wrong, it should be illegal to do a preemptive nuclear strike, it just sadly isn't.

It might not be feasible for the entire chain to have the information needed to make that call, but there is definitely someone in military authority positioned to know if it's defensive or offensive, and that person should be both allowed and obligated to refuse the order if it's an offensive strike.

Morality and the law may not be equivalent, but it would certainly be more convenient if they were closer.

2
lemmy.world

US reportedly also forgets the arithmetic of AD and MD efficiency, and the fact that there are countries capable of nuking it in response, and in case it uses a nuke against Iran those will multiply like mushrooms after a rain.

12
Kirp123reply
lemmy.world

If they use a nuke on Iran then Russia will start popping a bunch of them on Ukraine. Maybe that's Putin's plan all along, get Trump to drop a nuke so it becomes a free for all.

Anyways, hope you know where your nuclear shelter is and you like canned food and iodine tablets.

22
lemmy.world

I live in Russia, in Moscow, in a kinda golden (in Stalin's time) place, so the shelter is right under me, its ventilation shaft exit is near the playground.

The problem is - nobody knows how the hell do you get in.

I do like canned food. I even had a small stockpile in 2022 when I thought things had gotten real and it's time to prepare. Have eaten through it.

If it becomes a free for all, though, hiding from the physical effects will be easier than hiding from the social ones.

15
Salehreply
feddit.org

You should start taking notes where D6 is and how to enter, so you can take out the Dark Ones when they appear twenty years down the line.

4

I even know of one possible entrance, but the building above it I hate with passion, I'd need a flamethrower.

4

Dumbo with the big ears is pulling the strings of the empty-headed Scarecrow.

5
Lemminaryreply
lemmy.world

Humanity? I didn't have a say in any of this shit.

But I have to ask, why is it that easterners are so ready to blame everyone on this side of the world in bulk every time? I've even heard "the hubris of the west". No, fuck that, the hubris of the few in the West.

Do you realize there's more going on than the US over here? If you mean the US administration, then say the US administration. Why involve everyone else?

2

I get tired of people in the US and in Europe always flexing on others and always playing the moral high ground. Of course, this is not everyone but I see it enough.

Meanwhile, many of these people cheer for Israel and other western countries whenever in a conflict and always make excuses for why it's "good".

I will admit, looking at the polls people seem to finally be shifting away from some of these notions.

I know I threw a slogan out, so I won't actually blame everyone, but some acknowledgement of the wrongs would be nice by those who insist the west is better than everyone else.

2
fedia.io

Why involve everyone else?

Because your administration is elected. Westerners like to say "but we don't support this!!!" but somehow manage to justify almost every individual act of imperialism. Afghanistan? Check. Iraq? Check. Everything Israel has been doing for the last 60 years? Check. An actual, honest to God Holocaust? Check*. Jury's still out on Iran, but I'm not hopeful. I was called a Russian troll more times than I can count on Lemmy, a supposedly left-leaning space, for pointing out Biden's complicity and Harris's support for Israel's genocide. I remember the reaction to Uncommitted. This isn't everyone, obviously, but it's more than enough. I mean, remove the active supporters and complacent liberals and you have what? 5% of the population? So to answer your question:

But I have to ask, why is it that easterners are so ready to blame everyone on this side of the world in bulk every time?

Because the things we blame the West for are done using your tax dollars by politicians you elect.

*this one with lesser evil politics rather than outright support, but that distinction matters very little.

-1
Lemminaryreply
lemmy.world

Because your administration is elected

I'm Mexican. My administration is at best getting dragged down into this. I mean, our democracy is stronger than it has ever been and directly opposes 47.

Because the things we blame the West for are done using your tax dollars by politicians you elect.

Not my tax dollars, not my politicians, not my elections.

1
fedia.io

In that case Mexico isn't part of the political bloc known as the West, so it's not included when I or someone else says Western this or Westerners that.

1
Lemminaryreply
lemmy.world

I'm not about to start splitting hairs about which definition to use for the West. Although it largely depends on how the West is defined, most often than not we're included in the Western civilization by cultural and political overlap, and also by proximity.

And even if you don't consider us part of the West, I will speak out on behalf of the rest of Latin American continent that, save for whatever the hell is happening with Bukele kissing fash ass, they've largely kept out of things and they are unquestionably part of the Western bloc proper.

Lumping people together like this is just gross. It's much like when people call all Asians Chinese because they can't bother with the differences and it just sounds inappropriate.

1
fedia.io

Okay here's one way to see if you're from the West: Is your media manufacturing consent for a war with Iran? Does your country consider Israel an indispensable ally? Are you ramping up or being asked to ramp up defense spending to respond to the Russian threat? Did you send troops to Afghanistan? Did your country impose non-UN sanctions on Iran? Does the Middle East form an important part of your country's foreign policy?

If the answer to all or most of these is no, you are not part of the West, or at least not in a way that is relevant to this conversation.

Lumping people together like this is just gross.

Then they can stop following daddy USA's party line and do something, anything to differentiate themselves from America's little gang of imperialists.

1

Those are questions to determine if you're at war with Iran.

Then they can stop following daddy USA's party line and do something, anything to differentiate themselves from America's little gang of imperialists.

We have done quite a few, actually. That's my entire point.

1
feddit.uk

It would help to some extent, but they’d have to keep bombing the facility consistently - and indefinitely - to keep it out of service.

4

I wonder what the rate of bombing would be needed to keep up with modern excavation techniques. Though I imagine there are too many variables to say anything meaningful.

1
lemmy.ml

Putin needs to draw a red line ASAP. If USA thinks they can go there they need to be nuked in return.

1
TipRingreply
lemmy.world

Putin would be more than happy for the US to drop a nuke in Iran since it gives him free reign to use nuclear artillery in Ukraine.

11

It would mean profit, but it would also mean Putin scared for his life trying to find alternative solutions. Since I'm in Russia, I don't like the idea. Those solutions would probably mean even more total lockdown of everything.

2

None of us really have any power to change what's coming. It is what it is.

I like to take comfort in the fact climate change is going to collapse civilization and drive the human race to functional extinction anyway, so none of this really matters.

Let the nukes fly. Better to die in a fireball than from starvation.

LFG.

-7

Someone got a few inches away from changing it, fwiw. Get your ecofascist doomer shit out of here.

5