It's basically gambling on the nerdiness of the question's writer. Do they think HTML is a programming language? Do they know that people think it's a programming language and trying to trap them? Do they know it's not a programming language but also know most people would think it is one and so are using the common, loose definition of a programming language in order not to trap people?
It is a quiz, they know what they are talking about if they put the question in. And if they don't, you get to call out the quiz master for being wrong.
I would challenge the question right there and demand an expert counsel to explain why HyperTextMarkupLanguage is classified as a programming language when it's not even Turing complete. It's a markup language. Security would have to drag me, I'd die on the specificity hill.
If the question writer was aware, they would have formulated the question differently. It's just not clear-cut whether HTML is a programming language or not, so you wouldn't be quizzing their knowledge, but rather just whether they hold the same opinion as you. Or whether they meta-gamed correctly. Neither of which make for a fun show...
I would loudly go on the record for my reasoning that Hypertext Markup Language is not Turing Complete, and therefore fails to be a programming language by the only academic and theoretical definition that matters.
They already are going to award me "lawyer up" money, so I'll come after them for damages later if B is the "right' answer.
I can write a .ini code where a value of a key is a binary that the interpreter runs. Are ini files a programming language? Hell no, and neither is html.
Is R a compiled programming language because several of its built in functions run compiled C code? No.
The point in that case would be that while not intended it could be used as a programming language. The R example seems unrelated. Every language must run compiled code at one point or else the CPU wouldn't know what to do.
Don’t worry. They interview you before these shows. If you’re at all tech savvy then they would never ask you this question. They want you to be stumped by the question for legitimate reasons, not to loudly protest that you’ve been cheated by a bad question.
CFML walks the line, but it exists to make HTML in a programmatic way, and be very approachable to non-programmers. It’s not really a markup language, it’s a programming language disguised as markup.
That's the etymological fallacy. The name itself doesn't determine the meaning. According to that logic, python isn't a programming language either but a snake
"Monty" was selected (Eric Idle's idea) as a gently mocking tribute to Field Marshal Lord Montgomery, a British general of World War II; requiring a "slippery-sounding" surname, they settled on "Python". Flying Circus stuck when the BBC explained it had printed that name in its schedules and was not prepared to amend it.
The name in this case is defined by the meaning if you will. Programming languages are used to write programs. A HTML file is much closer to a PDF than to what can be considered a program.
Also fun fact python is named after the comedy group Monty Python rather than the snake.
Actually, PDF is a turing complete programming language.
PDF is a simplification and wrapper around the computer language PostScript - a PostScript or PDF doc literally runs on the printer or computer and outputs the rasterisation of the thing you want to print.
PostScript is language based around a stack. You can define functions (which may be fully recursive) that run on the stack.
Bro if someone called me a dipshit for a technicality in a contest where money is at stake? They are a dipshit. Being serious about the questions is the point.
That question just gave me anxiety. That is exactly the type of question I would get. Technically it's not but does the people who wrote that think that? Is it a trap question or a smart question? Omg I gotta not think about this anymore...
Exactly, maybe the person who wrote it thinks its a programming language, maybe machine language is defined as a language that can be interpreted by a machine.
There is a running joke that some people falsely consider HTML a programming language which it is not. So it's D. I didn't watch the show but I assume that's it and the joke is that the audience's majority took alien language
Not expected Amitabh Bacchan and Indian who wants to be a Millonaire or Kaun bane ga Crorepati.
Lemmy has got me suprised.
Also HTML is markup not a programming language.
WYSIWYG has been around so long that people forget markup languages and batch text processing have been around for a long time. LaTeX and Groff seem to be the sole survivors.
I don't even know why it wouldn't/shouldn't be considered a programming language. It's a language, and it's used to code instructions for something... What more does it need?
We do that to explain that HTML is nothing more than to display text in a certain layout, just like a Word document. The only difference is that Word is designed to be printed, while HTML is designed to display on a website.
Also, exclude VBA as well as macros. VBA is a programming language.
Well, you can't make Tetris in HTML without including some other language that has loops and variables.
I'm also not sure if you can do it in Excel without using VBA, which is a programming language. Excel doesn't do circular logic in the document sheets.
Anyway the issue or joke is the lack of definition of "programming".
HTML is a text encoding system. It's not that different form something like the Morse code. It's only instructions for how to decipher a series of codes. It takes input and presents it as an output, starting from the beginning and working its way to the end.
In my very unofficial opinion, a "program" is something that is able to "run" by itself, so that the code itself has instructions for which part of the code to run.
If you decipher a morse code, it doesn't suddenly have instructions that force you to go backwards in the code and decipher from there or to jump to different sections. The text output might tell you to do so, but if you follow the text, then you're doing something else than deciphering morse code.
HTML works the same. It start from the top and interprets its way down. It can have some conditional statements, but nothing that will make it go backwards and rerun the same instructions again.
The interpretation is of course more advanced than Morse code and it can call other languages to do stuff, so HTML is basically a document describing a job procedure in that way. The individual jobs can be reoccurring tasks, but the document itself isn't.
So in my opinion it's not "running" anything. It's just a document being printed on screen.
I'll admit that "one-shot" programs are a thing, and documents with variables do exist, so it's not clear cut. A programming language should be capable of those things though, and HTML isn't one on its own.
I've only used it briefly to access the filesystem. Having to paste code into the reference field in the name manager is a special kind of masochistic practice.
It's a huge pain, especially considering selection shortcuts are overwritten.
I dont work with Excel anymore, but there are python scripts on github to help with lamba management via export/import.
Simon Peyton Jones is about as big an expert on programming languages as you can get, and he's on the record as saying Excel is a functional programming language.
It's basically gambling on the nerdiness of the question's writer. Do they think HTML is a programming language? Do they know that people think it's a programming language and trying to trap them? Do they know it's not a programming language but also know most people would think it is one and so are using the common, loose definition of a programming language in order not to trap people?
My brain would melt
Mine wouldn't.
It is a quiz, they know what they are talking about if they put the question in. And if they don't, you get to call out the quiz master for being wrong.
But I’d rather have the million dollars than the satisfaction of calling out the show for being wrong.
I would challenge the question right there and demand an expert counsel to explain why HyperTextMarkupLanguage is classified as a programming language when it's not even Turing complete. It's a markup language. Security would have to drag me, I'd die on the specificity hill.
Yeah I’d be so mad if I was wrong for saying none.
Weak sauce. A man has to have principles!
If the question writer was aware, they would have formulated the question differently. It's just not clear-cut whether HTML is a programming language or not, so you wouldn't be quizzing their knowledge, but rather just whether they hold the same opinion as you. Or whether they meta-gamed correctly. Neither of which make for a fun show...
I would loudly go on the record for my reasoning that Hypertext Markup Language is not Turing Complete, and therefore fails to be a programming language by the only academic and theoretical definition that matters.
They already are going to award me "lawyer up" money, so I'll come after them for damages later if B is the "right' answer.
wrong again! CSS is turing complete, and HTML can include inline CSS, so you can implement a Turing machine in HTML only (without external .js files)
It can also include inline JS. HTML alone cannot be turing complete, but HTML+CSS is.
CSS can be included as a style property without requiring the script/style tag though.
Those are still two different languages. HTML isn't an umbrella term for HTML+CSS in any form.
I can write a .ini code where a value of a key is a binary that the interpreter runs. Are ini files a programming language? Hell no, and neither is html.
Is R a compiled programming language because several of its built in functions run compiled C code? No.
The point in that case would be that while not intended it could be used as a programming language. The R example seems unrelated. Every language must run compiled code at one point or else the CPU wouldn't know what to do.
Same goes for JS, for example the onclick attribute.
Very good point, I forgot that was an option.
Don’t worry. They interview you before these shows. If you’re at all tech savvy then they would never ask you this question. They want you to be stumped by the question for legitimate reasons, not to loudly protest that you’ve been cheated by a bad question.
How is Hyper Text Markup Language not a programming language? Now JavaScript and CSS are arcane rituals, but html is well behaved.
How is it a programming language? It's a markup language. There's no logic, variables or any way to manipulate data.
It's right there in the name, but then there's CFML, which is unpopular, but it definitely features logic, variables, and data manipulation.
CFML walks the line, but it exists to make HTML in a programmatic way, and be very approachable to non-programmers. It’s not really a markup language, it’s a programming language disguised as markup.
Can you write a program in HTML?
It is in the name. It is a markup language, not a programming/scripting language.
It’s right there in the name: it’s a markup language. Hyper Text Markup Language. HTML.
How To Meet Ladies.
Huge Turd Must LaughHuge Tongue Must Lick
Thanks, now I'm a huge turd
Omg, you gave me a great idea. Don't ask how. Updated it.
There is a difference between “markup language” and “programming language”.
That's the point isn't it? Or did you mean that with a question mark attached?
The only correct answer is D, and it got the least votes. 😋
That's the etymological fallacy. The name itself doesn't determine the meaning. According to that logic, python isn't a programming language either but a snake
Fun fact python was named after Monty python, not the snake.
What was Monty Python named after?
I think it got inspired by our lord and savior Brian
his parents i think
"Monty" was selected (Eric Idle's idea) as a gently mocking tribute to Field Marshal Lord Montgomery, a British general of World War II; requiring a "slippery-sounding" surname, they settled on "Python". Flying Circus stuck when the BBC explained it had printed that name in its schedules and was not prepared to amend it.
Monty Python was named after Monty Python was named after Monty Python was named after..
Based on this post it seems M. Python is the scientific name for the Ouroboros
Then what is M. Bison the scientific name for?
Raul Julia, of course
The Red Baron.
It's named after the python language, obviously. Nothing beats recursive referencing.
If it walks like a snake and quacks like a snake...
The name in this case is defined by the meaning if you will. Programming languages are used to write programs. A HTML file is much closer to a PDF than to what can be considered a program.
Also fun fact python is named after the comedy group Monty Python rather than the snake.
Actually, PDF is a turing complete programming language.
PDF is a simplification and wrapper around the computer language PostScript - a PostScript or PDF doc literally runs on the printer or computer and outputs the rasterisation of the thing you want to print.
PostScript is language based around a stack. You can define functions (which may be fully recursive) that run on the stack.
Here's a small example:
As such, PDF that's actually similar to Python, and HTML is closer to something like a JSON or XML document.
Note however that HTML can contain Javscript or WASM programs, but these are embedded rather than features of HTML.
Consider me outjerked 🎩🤏
HTML5 + CSS3 seems to be Turing complete too: https://lemire.me/blog/2011/03/08/breaking-news-htmlcss-is-turing-complete/
Forgive me if this sounds rude but it's the best way to explain in my mind, please take it in jest.
- lemon is sweet.
+ no, lemon is sour.
- well, Lemmon+sugar is sweet.
+ ?????????????
Well, TIL! Thank you!
Ok, but hear me out. Have you seen most Python code?
snake_case_ftw
Point taken
From Gryffindor and awarded to Slytherin
Welcome to germany. Many name for new thing just description of thing. Why not more language do that? Very useful.
Bro if someone called me a dipshit for a technicality in a contest where money is at stake? They are a dipshit. Being serious about the questions is the point.
Thought exactly the same. I'd like to know how the legal side would look like. Let's say you say D. Could you go to court if they say it's wrong?
Guessing you have to sign a release/arbitration/"suck it" agreement when you agree to come on the show.
Next you're calling a word document a programming language (no, not VBA).
I would answer B even though D is correct. There is no technicality about. B is wrong.
Tell the moderator, let him ask production. You're not playing in a black box.
And even D is a paradoxical non-answer.
(Just like my D 🥲)
I mean it could easily be considered a machine language
What really has my brain in a knot is: Does option "D: None of these" include or exclude option D?
That’s why it should be “none of the above”. And if there’s a “all of the above”, it must come right before the “none of the above”.
They're not above. One of them is to the left.
Or address them:
Is only A supposed to be a pointer?
Asking the real questions.
It's clearly not the US version, so we should assume this is a translation error for the "none of these" instead of "none of the above" perhaps.
Ackshually it's a markup language not a programming language Picks D and loses $1 million
wait D was not the correct answer?
D is the correct answer, but do you trust a game show to know that?
That question just gave me anxiety. That is exactly the type of question I would get. Technically it's not but does the people who wrote that think that? Is it a trap question or a smart question? Omg I gotta not think about this anymore...
Exactly, maybe the person who wrote it thinks its a programming language, maybe machine language is defined as a language that can be interpreted by a machine.
Well what the fuck is a machine language?
Is is data transmitted between parties (machines) to convey information? HTML fits this definition.
Do they mean machine code? Because some call machine code "machine language".
Either way the answer is D.
Can someone clarify what the answer should be and what was the answer on the show?
There is a running joke that some people falsely consider HTML a programming language which it is not. So it's D. I didn't watch the show but I assume that's it and the joke is that the audience's majority took alien language
Interestingly C and D are both programming languages. That is, there is a programming languages called C and another, D.
I'll see myself out...
A and B are also programming languages. A is an APL implementation and B is a precursor of C.
https://aplwiki.com/wiki/A https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(programming_language)
Yes, C is alien language pretty often. The other half it is wizardry.
Trying to remember from automata theory, does the empty set accept an empty grammar?
Like how in some languages an empty source file is valid? So then “none” is a programming language with an empty language grammar?
Not expected Amitabh Bacchan and Indian who wants to be a Millonaire or Kaun bane ga Crorepati. Lemmy has got me suprised. Also HTML is markup not a programming language.
WYSIWYG has been around so long that people forget markup languages and batch text processing have been around for a long time. LaTeX and Groff seem to be the sole survivors.
Phones a friend = no one answers.
It looks like this is a photo taken by a potato of a magazine photo that was taken by a potato
Is Machine Language even a well defined thing? I would think of assembly but I don't know where to draw the line
*stares at chatgpt* all language is now machine language
Hyper Text Machine Language
This will be the next big thing. I’m going to write a Lemmy server in this.
You could call it WebAssembly
I've never heard the term. Only machine code, which i interpret as 1/0. Assembly should be a very low level programing language?
Wikipedia, defines machine code and machine language too apparently.
All of these?
Not really, it's a formatting language.
Yes, I'm fun at parties. In my head 😅
A "Markup Language" to be precise. HyperText Markup Language.
Yea my parties are the best parties, too.
That's the word, it did feel wrong with formatting! We should party together sometimes! 😄
Ah yes, the humour effect bias. In case nobody noticed, everybody chose Alien Language.
HTML : Coding Language
there we go, nobody complians about programming languages
It's in the name, it's a markup languge. Html sites are basically just over-formatted text.
I don't even know why it wouldn't/shouldn't be considered a programming language. It's a language, and it's used to code instructions for something... What more does it need?
When I tell you it's gonna sound obvious but it's because you don't use it to write programs. It's a formatting tool more than anything.
HTML doesn’t have IF or loops. It’s just formatting text.
Do you program a document in Word?
What about Excel? First reply I got said it has to make programs, right? I can make a Tetris clone in Excel. 🤣
We aren't talking about Excel, but about Word.
We do that to explain that HTML is nothing more than to display text in a certain layout, just like a Word document. The only difference is that Word is designed to be printed, while HTML is designed to display on a website.
Also, exclude VBA as well as macros. VBA is a programming language.
Well, you can't make Tetris in HTML without including some other language that has loops and variables.
I'm also not sure if you can do it in Excel without using VBA, which is a programming language. Excel doesn't do circular logic in the document sheets.
Anyway the issue or joke is the lack of definition of "programming".
HTML is a text encoding system. It's not that different form something like the Morse code. It's only instructions for how to decipher a series of codes. It takes input and presents it as an output, starting from the beginning and working its way to the end.
In my very unofficial opinion, a "program" is something that is able to "run" by itself, so that the code itself has instructions for which part of the code to run.
If you decipher a morse code, it doesn't suddenly have instructions that force you to go backwards in the code and decipher from there or to jump to different sections. The text output might tell you to do so, but if you follow the text, then you're doing something else than deciphering morse code.
HTML works the same. It start from the top and interprets its way down. It can have some conditional statements, but nothing that will make it go backwards and rerun the same instructions again.
The interpretation is of course more advanced than Morse code and it can call other languages to do stuff, so HTML is basically a document describing a job procedure in that way. The individual jobs can be reoccurring tasks, but the document itself isn't.
So in my opinion it's not "running" anything. It's just a document being printed on screen.
I'll admit that "one-shot" programs are a thing, and documents with variables do exist, so it's not clear cut. A programming language should be capable of those things though, and HTML isn't one on its own.
Excel formulas have become Turing complete with the LAMBDA addition.
Good to know.
It seems kind of half assed though.
I've only used it briefly to access the filesystem. Having to paste code into the reference field in the name manager is a special kind of masochistic practice.
It's a huge pain, especially considering selection shortcuts are overwritten.
I dont work with Excel anymore, but there are python scripts on github to help with lamba management via export/import.
Well yeah if excel was a language it would certainly qualify
Simon Peyton Jones is about as big an expert on programming languages as you can get, and he's on the record as saying Excel is a functional programming language.
Excel has conditional logic, HTML does not
With a programming language you tell a computer what to do. With a markup language, which HTML is, you tell a computer what to show. Much different.
You wouldn't want to mix them up. The precise distinction is what the web makes so beautifully scalable.
Html does not contain instructions, just well ordered data. "schematics" if you may.