Spyke

Two Israeli embassy staff shot dead near Washington DC Jewish museum

Police said a suspect was in custody after the shooting near the Capital Jewish Museum

A suspect is in custody after shooting dead two Israeli embassy staff outside a Jewish museum in Washington on Wednesday night.

The gunman, named by police as Elias Rodriguez, 30, of Chicago, approached a group of four people leaving an event at the Capital Jewish Museum and opened fire, killing Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim.

Metropolitan police chief Pamela Smith said the shooter had been pacing outside the museum, which is steps away from the FBI’s field office, before the shooting.

After killing the pair, who officials said were a couple, he walked inside, where event security detained him. The suspect yelled: “Free, free Palestine,” after he was arrested, police said.

Two Israeli embassy staff shot dead near Washington DC Jewish museumhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/22/two-israeli-embassy-staff-shot-dead-near-washington-dc-jewish-museum-homeland-security-secretaryOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
lemmy.world

It sucks that more people died. It also sucks that I feel so.....indifferent about this one.

How many Israelis have to die before they stop killing Palestinians? What's two lives compared to the hundreds ended daily in Gaza? It's hard to be sad.

These people probably weren't evil. At worst, they were complicit after being fed a lifetime of propaganda. And nothing will change because of this so there's no silver lining. It's hard to be happy.

If I feel anything, it's dread at how the story will be spun. But even then...whatever happens isn't going to be the worse than what's already happening.

So it's hard to care at all. And that's the sad part for me.

124
sh.itjust.works

The government of Israel is evil.
These people worked for the embassy.

We can't condemn people in broad terms. That is what started this. Killing someone because of their nationally, race, or job, is wrong. It's more senseless killing, adding to the hundreds of Palestinians killed.

Guard yourself against seeing individuals as the enemy, when their only sin is where they were born.

48
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

They weren't just born there (and given the number of settlers over there, that's doubtful tbh). They took a state job representing, and lobbying for this genocide.

It's a tragedy that it has come to this, but it's not wrong. It's wrong that it has to be this way.

47
lemmy.world

Killing is only justified if it saves lives. Anyone can see this act will cost lives on both sides. And 1000x as many on the Palestinian side.

Let's be real, this guy wanted to be a badass and get praise and attention. And he doesn't care how many die because of that.

9

I have a hard time reconciling killing is justifiable. I can agree if your life is in immediate danger but then you have the cops who use it as a license to kill. I lean on the side that some things just can't be justified and we have to mitigate/manage these instances.

0
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

That's even worse then. Not even the excuse of growing up there to fall back on. They chose to work there still.

13
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

If you conveniently forget to mention where it is exactly they happen to work, of course it sounds silly.

7
lemm.ee

How do you know they were lobbying for genocide? For all we know they were against it and working for a peaceful solution. Not everyone who works for a government is part of the ideology. That's no better than saying every Democrat is MAGA.

-5

Ambassadors are appointed. If they were not in favor of the administration they would be recalled and replaced by ones that were.

I suppose, but they weren't ambassadors. So - that's wrong.

It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that these people were directly involved in advocating for greater crackdowns on pro-Palestine antigenocide protesting.

Damn, a shadow of a doubt?! Holy shit you must have the motherfucking receipts on these sumbitches, let's see it! Whatcha got, facebook post? Tiktok? Some sort of cleverly disguised academic treatise?

Yeah you got nothing. GTFO.

These two people lived by the sword.

Oh FFS.

1
lemm.ee

Maybe they did, which is why they were at an event to discuss delivering more aid to Gaza.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

These were young idealists trying to make a change. But the shooter didn't care about the distinction, and it seems many others don't either.

5

Most Israelis support Israel which, until a few years ago, was a-ok on account of the previous thousands of years of persecution in every other country in the world, cresting in the unpleasantness of the early-mid 1900s which set quite the bar for evil and horror.

Then Likud - like all republiQan, right-wing authoritarian regimes - seized power and started fucking everything up in incredible, outrageous ways. Americans should be familiar.

I don't know what they did for the embassy, but it could be something utterly harmless and treating them like enemy combatants when they're in an entirely different country at a museum is wrong.

I get the hate at the Likud/IDF for the genocide. Y'all are losing the plot by thinking this is ok though. It is very much not okay.

-8

You just have to check Lischinsky tweets and retweet oposing a palestinian state because it would be a gift to Khamas

4

What about where to draw the line? Everyday the money we use is funneled to some corporation that has a hand in the human suffering that happens around the globe. When is thier evil transfered to me because I contributed to their successs.

1
lemmy.world

I'd say the line is crossed when you have agency and knowingly use it to perpetuate suffering.

1

Killing someone because of their nationally, race, or job, is wrong.

One of these things is not like the others.

19

That's exact what I'm trying to say - they didn't deserve to die and nothing good will come from it.

I will admit I WAS happy about the UHC CEO because he was directly involved in the decisionmaking that led to suffering. But this one doesn't feel like vengeance - until I hear otherwise, these were just two people caught in the crossfire. Bullets should be flying at Netanyahu and his cronies, not embassy employees.

13
Optionalreply
lemmy.world

Guard yourself against seeing individuals as the enemy, when their only sin is where they were born.

Kansas City?

7

i will disagree here as people in palestine have no choice, they are going to murdered by settlers and have their home of multiple generations taken away no matter what they do. so what alternative they have other than to fight back.

these “delegates” on the other are rich and educated enough to work for anyone other than this disgusting apartheid state of who murder women and children for fun on daily basis. we all know what aipac and israeli lobby does in us to hijack our political system. they are the actual terrorists not gazan fighting for survival without food and water against an enemy that wipes out a family with drone strike for speaking the truth. these “delegates” might not have shot anyone but they certainly ensure that the terrorists who do it get all the funds and weapons they need.

they intentionally murder doctors and medics so injured innocents die horrible death

people like him and luigi are just normal people who are brave enough to do the only thing that is going to make a dent against these well funded parasites.

7
jimmy90reply
lemmy.world

i know how you feel, it's just like the thousands of other terrorist acts against Jews over the centuries

-3
glimsereply
lemmy.world

I don't really feel indifferent towards those, though

6
jimmy90reply
lemmy.world

so you don't want any more of these murders to happen?

or you're indifferent about that

-4
glimsereply
lemmy.world

Sorry, gloves off

What kind of stupid fucking gotcha do you think you're trying to catch me in here?

5

would you be indifferent if more israeli embassy workers are killed?

clear enough potty mouth?

-2
lemmy.ml

Which only benefits Israel. If Jewish people are less safe in their home countries they are incentivized to become Israeli settlers.

35

Odd though that out of 5 people he got two staffers. Seems he was trying to specifically get isreali employees.
I do feel for the innocents who get targetted... on both sides.

6

Every. Single. One. Those kids are kids, not fetuses; alive, with hopes and dreams. In other words, completely fucking useless to the "pro life" people.

8

Philosophy Tube has a great video about this topic https://youtu.be/rLfzO7Sbdc4. At 27:20 she starts talking about who's life is worth grieving and who's is not, and how this is a government level topic. It hits the nail on the head about the differences in reporting two different people's deaths can have. At 33:45 they specifically talk about the 2008 Gaza war.

14

💯 the default assumption of the media is that these Israelis are relatable humans and this is a tragedy... But what is happening in Gaza is somehow morally ambiguous.

Maybe one could argue the sheer scale of the Gaza genocide makes it difficult for the media to humanize them, so they get reduced to just a number of fatalities with lots of digits. But if the media default was that the Palestinian lives had value they would look through the lives lost like those in 9-11 and tell their stories.

2

People getting killed in a warzone is different than political murders.

It’s not about who, it’s about context.

News reporting is also about new and unexpected events.

Consider this: People being killed in Sudan or Myanmar gets no attention compared to Gaza.

-21

lol. Describes Gaza as "people getting killed in a warzone", then has the lack of self-awareness to preach about context.

You sound like an Israeli shill, mate. Dumbing down the language and trying to change the focus to another atrocity.

Gaza isn't "people getting killed in a warzone", it's civilians and children getting bombed in their beds/hospitals/schools/refugee camps and currently being starved to death in the dark by an oppressive fascist regime.

35
lemm.ee

Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but the same can be said for ~53,000 dead Palestinians and the rest who are actively starving to death in a Israeli-made famine while aid rots onboard trucks across the border. Both acts are deliberate, and both were avoidable.

And while they were both working for the current extremists in power atm via the diplomatic service, they were a lot more moderate too:

Lischinsky “I’m an ardent believer in the vision that was outlined in the Abraham Accords and believe that expanding the circle of peace with our Arab neighbours and pursuing regional cooperation is in the best interest of the state of Israel and the Middle East as a whole. To this end, I advocate for interfaith dialogue and intercultural understanding.”

Milgrim organised visits and missions to Israel. She was also a volunteer at Tech2Peace, an advocacy group training young Palestinians and Israelis and promoting dialogue between them.

Tech2Peace said Milgrim was an active volunteer who “brought people together with empathy and purpose”.

69
lemm.ee

I mean also.....

"In his final post on social media hours before the attack, Lischinsky had shared a post from the Israeli ambassador, Amir Weissbrod, accusing UN officials of engaging in “blood libel” over claims that 14,000 children faced starvation in Gaza."

Not saying they deserved any violence, but even once moderate Israelis have been driven pretty far right in the last couple years. Accusations of blood libel while the state is actively starving children doesn't exactly seem to be promoting any positive dialogue.

65
lemm.ee

Yeeeesh, hadn’t seen that reporting…

It’s unbelievably disappointing to see over and over again that Israelis are broadly okay with the death and destruction in Gaza, when a little over a generation ago they were on the cusp of a genuine two-state solution. And now it’s an ethnostate that practices apartheid, and it’s okay because “Bibi keeps us safe”. Almost as if nothing else matters.

34

It was always an Apartheid state - their own laws from the very start separate Israeli Citizenship from Israeli Nationality, with only Jews being allowed to have the last (in addition to the former) which has additional rights over mere Citizenship - and it had a Genocide already pretty near the time of its formation called the Nakba, only that was "just" displacement and a few murders rather than mass murdering hundreds of thousands of people.

It's just that for a while their Propaganda was very successful and they might have even be genuinelly considering merelly not taking over the rest of Palestine as giving back that which they had already stolen was never on the table, nor was the return of the Palestinians or a genuinelly equal society for both Jews and Non-Jews.

Israel was always shit since it's formation (which by the way involved them commiting terrorist attacks), it's just that now they've gone extreme Genocidal on their way to commiting a XXI Century version of the Holocaust.

11

The context is important. A UN official said 14,000 children would die in 48 hours. As it turns out that was a grossly exaggerated claim.

a report from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) which stated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition are expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.

The IPC report says this could take place over the course of about a year - not 48 hours

Weissbrod called that out.

-5

I don't think I would really consider it a grossly exaggerated claim, more of just a misinterpretation of a report.

"For now let me just say that we know for a fact that there are babies who are in urgent life-saving need of these supplements that need to come in because their mothers are unable to feed themselves."

"And if they do not get those, they will be in mortal danger," he said.

I definitely wouldn't claim that it was a claim based on antisemitism as Weissbrod is accusing. It's a fact that the Israeli state is starving tens of thousands of people for no justifiable reason. I don't think a misinterpretation of the timeline is really enough to claim someone is participating in blood libel.

8

Well, as long as 14,000 children die of starvation over a longer time period...

0
lemmy.world

Really, guy? You're removing opinions as "misinformation" to protect a genocidal nation's dignity?

4
Peterssonreply
feddit.org

Genuinely awful for these two and their families

Yeah.

Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but

Stop. It's awful. Period!

-22
lemm.ee

A) One lone gunman goes off the rails and murders two people because they’re Jewish/affiliated with the state. That’s tragic and wrong, and I haven’t yet seen anyone claim that his actions were good and right.

B) An entire government and military decides that their course of action shall be wanton bombing with callous disregard for innocent civilian bystanders, whilst deliberately restricting food, fuel, and medical care to a blockaded nation. That’s willful evil, that is being either openly or implicitly supported by an overwhelming majority of Israelis.

The two scenarios are not the same, but they both are tragic.

16
Peterssonreply
feddit.org

But if two people are killed, you don't have to say: "Well, but what about..."

-16
lemm.ee

I mean context is always important. Pretty sure any murder investigation goes into the motivation of the person who killed the victims.

I think it's important to dispel the notion that the occupation of a neighboring country is somehow an act of protection, when it's pretty obvious that it's sparked a lot of provocation.

12
Peterssonreply
feddit.org

But they didn't just pointed out the context. They said: "Genuinely awful for these two and their families, but the same can be said for ~53,000 dead Palestinians [...]". That wording tends to whataboutism which is something I just want to point out. I may be overreacting but this sentence just sounds very adverse.

-5
lemm.ee

I mean, I don't think you get to decide what the scope of the context is.

For this not to be contextual you would have to claim that the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians had nothing to do with the gunman's motive. I think that would be hard to claim considering that the murders were politically motivated, considering that the two victims were diplomats.

I think people have gotten a little too comfortable with claiming anything that shares a sentence structure with a logical fallacy to be a logical fallacy. You have to remember that logical fallacies have to be illogical in the first place. It's not illogical to assume these two claims are associated.

Whataboutism have to equivocate two different scenarios that aren't logically associated with the events in the originating claim.

13

It's illogical to compare them from a moral perspective. You don't get to just shoot people because they have a different perspective than you, because they were raised differently or get their news from different places than you do. It's not exactly whataboutism though, it's more of a false equivalence. Whatever the case, the gunman is not morally justified in murdering these two people. If you think he is, then you are blinded by ideology and shouldn't be allowed to participate in democratic society.

0

Why are we like this online? Why does the inbox regularly receive with “well ahktually” replies compared to real discussion or comments?

But the same [sympathy towards grieving families] can also be said…

  • Not “but tbh they deserve it bc Gaza”
  • Not “but I don’t care”
  • Not “but this is what they get for working for Israeli state”

Please don’t twist what I said to build a narrative where I’m some crypto-bigot trying to plant hatred. I wish the Israel apologists applied anywhere near that same level of effort towards the people who actually spew antisemitism…

This exact sentiment is why people don’t talk about Israel, but their reputation globally is in the gutter. Or how actual neo-nazis can pass fake Voltaire quotes that ‘Jews control the global media’ because criticism of Israel is verboten:

US congressman shares neo-Nazi’s quote wrongly attributed to Voltaire

CLAIM: French philosopher Voltaire said: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. Enlightenment-era writer Voltaire did not say this. The quote, which was paraphrased, comes from a 1993 radio broadcast by Kevin Alfred Strom, who has been identified as a neo-Nazi by organizations that monitor hate groups.

7
lemmy.world

You aren't over reacting. It's a massive false equivalence comparing what Israel has done against the murder of two individuals. The guy that got murdered isn't Israel. He's a person with opinions, right or wrong. He got murdered for a few tweets and an affiliation with Israel. He's not a combatant, but a civilian. Same for his wife. People justifying these murders are flat out wrong, and there's no place in America for ideological murders. In order to have a system where free speech is protected, you can't allow people to be murdered for their views. There is no defending these murders or trying to justify them.

0

a massive false equivalence comparing what Israel has done against the murder of two individuals.

People aren't trying to equivocate the two, that would be insulting, not only to the people who were murdered, but to the tens of thousands of people being killed in Palestine.

The guy that got murdered isn't Israel. He's a person with opinions, right or wrong. He got murdered for a few tweets and an affiliation with Israel.

I mean he's a representative of the state, which is why this is a politically motivated murder.

He's not a combatant, but a civilian. Same for his wife. People justifying these murders are flat out wrong

Explanations aren't justifications, just because people understand and even agree with the motivations of the killer doesn't mean the agree with how he acted upon them.

I find the cries for the sanctity of protecting civilians to be pretty meek considering the state these civilians represent have overwhelmingly killed more civilians than armed combatants.

This is the inherent problem with a state targeting civilian populations, it provokes violence upon your own civilians.

In order to have a system where free speech is protected, you can't allow people to be murdered for their views.

Another person misunderstanding the Constitution.....Free speech doesn't protect you from the public's reaction to your speech, it guarantees protection from the government targeting you for your speech.

This isn't an example of someone's free speech being violated. An actual example would be students being arrested for their protest about Israels actions in Gaza.

There is no defending these murders or trying to justify them.

Again, understanding a motive isn't justifying. No one said they agreed that those people deserved to be murdered , you're just moralizing.

2
lemm.ee

Yes, you’re right, the two events are entirely unrelated. Clearly just another case of anti-semitism out of nowhere. No possible other reason or context exists as to why the gunman was shouting “Free Palestine” as he was arrested after committing double murder.

Whatabboutism is when you deflect from one action perpetrated by your group, towards another action perpetrated by an out-group. Me expressing remorse for their deaths alongside the people their government murdered is not “Well what about…

12
Peterssonreply
feddit.org

Clearly just another case of anti-semitism out of nowhere

I never said that and you don't have to put words in my mouth. Rest here, that's all I wanted to say.

E: Putting words im mouths by the way doesn't really help people to change their mind or discuss constructively, what I tried to do.

-11

In a vacuum that makes sense, but this is going to be used to rationalize/justify some nasty shit. I don't think it's unreasonable to brace for that.

4
lemmy.ml

Israel is now the primary driver of antisemitism throughout the world.

62
nieminenreply
lemmy.world

Technically the genocide is antisemitic, because Palestinians are semitic.

13
nieminenreply
lemmy.world

Looking into this, it turns out all the dictionaries indeed seem to say it's jew specific, which I think is a failing of the English language, because Jews are a drop in the bucket for semitic populations.

I'll concede your point, despite the word structure literally implying something bigger.

Wikipedia

Webster

Oxford

Edit added references

7

The term Antisemitism was invented in German, so no inherent limitation of English. Anti comes from Ancient Greek in the first place, so no this isn’t a limitation of English.

There are many terms and words used, which aren’t simply the sum of its parts.

A hammer has nothing to do with ham for example.

1
nieminenreply
lemmy.world

I'm referring to the fact that "anti" and "semitism" are existing complete words. Every other example of a word given the "anti" prefix that i can think of is very clearly meaning, the opposite or against the existing definition of the word.

Antidisestablishmentarianism Antisocial Anticlimactic Antiacidemic Antibacterial Antifreeze Antihero Antihistamine

Hammer in your comment is a poor example, because hammer is its own word, despite the first three letters happening to be an existing other word. Antisemitism is clearly anti and semitism.

What's annoying, is since this term was coined (as you said, in germany), it was purely a dog whistle for jew hatred.

Wikipedia:

The compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879[19] as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit. 'Jew-hatred'),[20] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.[21][22][23] Due to the root word Semite, the term is sometimes subject to an etymological fallacy whereby it is incorrectly assumed to apply to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people", in spite of this being an obsolete racial concept.[23]

We need to let language do its thing, and adjust the meaning of this word to mean what it appears to mean, not some wink wink nudge nudge version you have to know ahead of time.

1

Antiair weapons don’t fight or kill the air.

Antisemitism was introduced as a more polite and scientific sounding euphemism for anti-Judaism. It’s just like racists today calling themselves race realists.

1
Optionalreply
lemmy.world

I mean, it's not like antisemitism needed help, but here we are.

9

It didn't need help being proudly adopted by uneducated bigots who believed in space lasers, but it was largely missing the intellectual generally accepting crowd. It sure got 'em now.

4
nieminenreply
lemmy.world

I don't blame Jews for what's happening, I blame Israel. Yes, there are many Jews that support what's happening, but that's no different from any other body of people.

Claiming what Israel is doing right now reflects on all Jews is the same as blaming trump on all Americans.

2

They said Israel. You said Jews. You're aware those are separate entities, yes? Or are you playing pedantic word games on purpose..?

10
gnutrinoreply
programming.dev

You're badly underestimating the scale of some of the post WWII genocides. The Khemer Rouge potentially killed more people than the total population of Gaza for example...

53

The genocide of the Tigray had three times the deaths and only happened two years ago.

The Rwandan genocide and Hutu genocide during the Congo war killed hundreds of thousands in the 1990s.

This is only the most recent events that came to mind.

10

The West? The colonial rulers used divide and conquer to divide these populations. However that was decades earlier and happened all over the world without leading to genocide every time.

Africans have their own agency. They are able to commit genocide just like white people or actually all humans.

3
lemmy.world

"Any attack against a Zionist is antisemitic"

So that means Isreal is a ethnostate?

49

I left out a lot of choice words because the powers that be on most sites take offense when you call a spade a spade, or when you compare said spade to spades that plagued the world during the 1930's and 40's.

5

The man who got shot had an active Twitter account. Very stand-up guy. Such a shame he got killed.

And thank you president Trump for speaking out for the man who has always had your back. 🫡

47

Well he seems like a total piece of soulless shit, lets give him that.

15

Contrary to the bogus claims of the media, this dude is not a bullet-riddled corpse!

good ridance

11
lemmy.world

After killing the pair, who officials said were a couple, he walked inside, where event security detained him. The suspect yelled: “Free, free Palestine,” after he was arrested, police said.

Certainly plausible...

But I don't trust the police or embassy officials from a country that's spent years committing a genocide.

They're not trustworthy witnesses.

If anyone is upset about that and wants it to change, you should go tell the cops and Israel to stop murdering people and then claiming it was self defense.

When you lie about shit constantly, people just stop taking your word on shit

44
lemmy.world

They've been winning it for a long time because multiple governments around the world have outlawed dissent in a lot of different ways. This event isn't going to change anybody's opinions on the underlying conflict it's just going to make everyone dig in deeper.

35

You're not wrong, but it's also an indication of just how thoroughly the Israelis have destroyed their credibility/moral high ground that my immediate thought after reading your comment was that maybe the shooter was Mossad doing a false-flag operation to manufacture that result.

13
Godricreply
lemmy.world

TIL reporting on a terrorist attack is "propaganda"

0

well you already used the term terrorist attack so it seems the propaganda is already here

2
lemmy.world

Heartbreaking to see, but sadly it was only a matter of time until something like this happened. This war on Gaza is growing increasingly unpopular and people feel powerless to stop the ongoing genocide being conducted by Israel. I don't support attacks against random civilians but I'm not surprised somebody saw an opportunity to make a statement. These deaths are on Netanyahu along with the tens-of-thousands of Palestinians killed since the war started.

42

It doesn't look like this was an "attack on random civilians." Out of all the people they could have killed, they killed people who work for the Israeli Embassy. They worked for the government doing the genocide.

Now did they support it? Who knows, but this shooter was not shooting up a movie theater. It was no more random than the United Healthcare CEO.

24

not really random, this guy seems on par with the Israelis watching Gaza bombings from a cliff while eating popcorn. He also seems to have a full hard on for Trump, so for him all kinds of humanitarian crimes are probably ok as long as the president supports Israel State's genocide. So not really random, perhaps more on the same level as Luigi.

14

During the last month, I have introduced real life Israelis and Palestinians to each other. I have helped two Palestinians deal with German bureaucracy.

That’s the most recent stuff. A complete list would take too long to write down.

1
lemmy.world

Bro, you're not going to stop a genocide by busting a cap in two nobodies half a world away.

30

Not to disagree with the claim, but it's important to incidentally point out that historically speaking, this kind of strategy is ineffective, at least without an organised mass movement to resist the reactionary clampdown. It's not sustainable. If it were, the US would have solved their healthcare problem already.

11
eurekareply
aussie.zone

I don't see how "globalize the intifada" jumps over to adventurist shootings. In practice, it means actions like writing off weapons factories (e.g. Palestine Action in the UK), strike and blockade actions (e.g. maritime unions, port actions), pressuring governments and organisations into withdrawing support for the zionist regime (e.g. boycotts, BDS movement, university protests) and other mass movement. We saw similar mobilisation with apartheid South Africa and the Vietnam War, so this isn't some imaginary claim, it's based on actual history of similar international solidarity movements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalize_the_Intifada

5

Look up what happened during the second intifada. That’s the context. Of course that also includes militancy, violence, and terrorism.

BDS

Doesn’t even support a two state solution for example.

Vietnam and South Africa were different. Neither of which ended through university protests. The Vietnam war was too expensive and politically unwinnable. Apartheid South Africa ended because the ANC was able to alleviate the fears of white South Africans from being massacred if they lose power. Neither of which applies to Palestine.

Israel(is) can’t go their home elsewhere, like the American soldiers. They also have valid fears of being exterminated if they lose some nance over the situation. Something like October 7th Never happened in South Africa.

Harping on these other situations hinders your ability to understand what’s going on in Israel/Palestine.

1
lemmy.world

A woman who attended the event, Katie Kalisher, told CBS News that she encountered the alleged shooter right after hearing gunfire.

"Then this man comes in … but he was covered in rain and just looking really distressed and scared," Kalisher told "CBS Mornings." "We were comforting him because we thought that he was just somebody out in the street looking for a safe place to stay because he heard some gunshots."

She said she talked to him to try to help him relax. "I asked him, 'So, do you like the museum?' And he's kind of playing dumb with me," she said about the interaction. "He goes, 'Oh, what kind of museum is this?' I told him, 'It's a Jewish museum.' He asked, 'Do you think that's why they did this attack' … referring to the rounds that we heard."

She said she told him she didn't think so and asked if he was OK. Then, she said, "He reaches into his bag and pulls out a keffiyeh and says, 'I did it. I did it for Gaza.' And, just starts shouting, 'Free Palestine.'"

20
Optionalreply
lemmy.world

Do explain how they facilitated a genocide.

Or STFU. Seriously. Explain why you think they deserved to be murdered in the US in front of a museum for having worked at the embassy. Seekrit MOSSAD maybe? Did they know (((others))) in the banking halls of power and the media and were plotting with them?? You have the answers, obviously, do share them. Or admit you don't.

-18
xenomorreply
lemmy.world

Nope. Not even close. Stop making stuff up asshole. As I have explained elsewhere on the thread, culpability is relative to role/actions and the severity of the organization’s crimes. I also explained that none of this violence is good. I’m not advocating for violence, I’m explaining that is inevitable when people and organizations perpetuate unbelievable violence, it’s going to blow back. I DONT WANT VIOLENCE. That’s why I’m so outraged at Israel’s fucking violence.

10
lemmy.blahaj.zone

You really are, the US is the primary funder and arms provider of the genocide in Palestine, it is a christo-fascist oligarchy built on multiple genocides and the two largest scale ethnic displacements in world history. Neither of which have had substantive reparations paid for. The state is actively in the process of in large part ethnically motivated murder, mass incarceration, mass displacement, family separation, torture, and placement in concentration camps. By your logic anyone working for that state is culpable and a legitimate target of political violence. Be logically consistent or get out.

2
xenomorreply
lemmy.world

I basically agree with you assessment of the US. You are either unaware of or ignoring the nuance I added to the description of my position elsewhere in the thread. But, whatever.

6
Optionalreply
lemmy.world

So anyone working for a part of the state is responsible for the actions of that state?

The undersecretary of Education is responsible for splitting up mothers and children at the border in 2017?

That's the same reasoning. Show that it is not, if you can.

-6
xenomorreply
lemmy.world

I don’t think it’s a binary. Culpability is relative to one’s role and actions. The severity of state action is also a factor and as that severity increases, culpability expands. I want to be explicit, I hate violence and I wish this had not happened. That being said, such violence is an inevitable consequence of circumstances like what the State of Israel and the US are orchestrating. To quote JFK:

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

10
Optionalreply
lemmy.world

Culpability is relative to one’s role and actions.

You stated that these two murder victems "facilitated a genocide". Then you explained that that was because they worked for the state of Israel.

Now their presumed culpability is relative to their role and actions, which brings us back to the very first question - what were their roles and actions that made them culpable for the genocide in Palestine?

-6

The embassy exists to maintain international support and cooperation in all areas.

Like I'm iffy on all this, I'm smelling some potential antisemitism with the location and everything. But the Israeli embassy to the United states is not bloodless. Their purpose is to maintain positive relations with their largest supplier of arms and armaments. That's not the only reason they exist, it's probably not the majority of their interactions. I'm sure they do plenty of good, but it's one of the goals of their diplomacy. The Israeli embassy to Kenya is far less complicit.

3

Mr. Lischinsky specialized in Japanese studies and was an outstanding student, according to Professor Otmazgin. “He was an idealist,” he said. “He wanted to build bridges between Israel and other countries, especially in Asia.”

He grew up in a culturally mixed family with a Jewish father and a Christian mother, and was a practicing Christian, according to Ronen Shoval, the dean of the Argaman Institute for Advanced Studies in Jerusalem, where Mr. Lischinsky participated in a yearlong program in classical liberal conservative thought after earning a master’s degree in government and diplomacy.

“He was a devout Christian,” Dr. Shoval said, “but he had tied his fate to the people of Israel.”

In his application to join the program, which Dr. Shoval shared with The New York Times, Mr. Lischinsky described his upbringing in a multicultural family and “the inner struggles” he faced while growing up in a religious household within secular societies in Germany and Israel.

Hanan Lischinsky said his brother had been considering applying to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ cadet course to train to be a diplomat. People who worked with Mr. Lischinsky in the embassy said that there, he identified as Jewish. 

. . . Ms. Milgrim had lived abroad in several places, including in Costa Rica, where she spent time working on a master’s degree program, eventually earning master’s degrees in international affairs and in natural resources and sustainable development.

Like many young Jewish Americans, she and her brother, Jacob, 28, also participated in Birthright Israel, which offers free trips to Israel in an effort to bolster Jewish identity. In Israel, she worked for an organization that connected young Israelis and Palestinians, her father said.

. . . Mr. Milgrim said that his daughter and Mr. Lischinsky were both concerned about peace in the Middle East, the stability of Israel and the plight of Palestinians.

“She was doing what she loved, she was doing good,” her father said. Doing good, he added, is “what brought her life to an end.”

archive

4
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

So anyone working for a part of the state is responsible for the actions of that state?

There's nuance here. Janitors at an Israeli government building? Probably not. State department employees serving an overseas mission to represent and lobby for your genocide? Yeah.

10
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

By working there they were implicit in helping the mission there so yes. I wouldn't have joined the German Embassy in 1941 even as a functionary unless I was a Nazi.

9

To the earlier example of the undersecretary of education; they are enabling family separation at the border?

Is it not that complicated?

-2

Why don't you just go work there and get these answers. They got 2 brand new openings lmao.

-3

Peace for whom? As far as I can tell since Nakba, the Palestinian people have not really had peace. Additional many other countries are often suffering under the boot of colonialism.

35
Blackmistreply
feddit.uk

Latest figures are that 61,700 have been killed in Gaza since Oct 7th 2023, so a bit of napkin maths suggest we are 3% of the way towards peace in Gaza through the IDF's preferred method.

17

These numbers in Gaza are always undercounted. It counts direct acts of violence mostly, for people not still buried under rubble, and skips many deaths from lack of medicine, sickness, famine, complications etc.

Estimated deaths was about 200k many months ago, according to studies published in reputable newspapers. I have no clue how high it is now, has to be over 300,000 people at least

6
PaleRiderreply
feddit.uk

You're assuming those kids aren't going to starve to death.

10
Blackmistreply
feddit.uk

If they even live long enough for that. Most of the hospitals were bombed.

7

All of them have been bombed. Most are no longer even partially operational, and even then that's without the medical supplies also cut off from Israeli's blockade

6

There is always a war going on somewhere. Some areas have longer breaks than others.

5

Small, weak men can never be happy with what they have because they feel small and weak. They will always crave more.

3

So, there's a lot of things happening in Gaza other than what's on the nose. Like starvation can cause neurological issues in the brain, in the body. It can even make your hair turn gray. All the stress. During World War I, soldiers came back with a thing called shell shock, and they would just constantly shake all the time. The kids in Gaza are showing symptoms of shell shock. So I could care less about two people getting killed.

13
lemmy.world

Well, fuck. This moron didn't help the Palestinians one bit. Just reinforces propaganda about opposition to the genocide being antisemitic.

8
Aulireply
lemmy.ca

Sure but Israel can kill Palestine's and aid workers from other western countries and nobody cares.

21
lemmy.world

It's not that no one cares, it's that people who do care don't want to be associated with others who care like this guy.

4
Pyrreply
lemmy.ca

Ya only because idiots will read it that way.

Embassy staff are basically political targets, not ethnic ones, but people will read it that way because anything against Israelis is being anti-jew not anti-israel.

19
reddthat.com

I think only those who already/still support Israel will see it that way.

Everyone else is sick of their shit and isn't going to buy the "antisemitic" line because it's been milked dry. We are well past the point where them doubling-down on calling everything "antisemitic" is going to sway any new people.

13
lemmy.world

Brain dead comment, these 2 people don't run the government of Israel and this solves nothing, more over it just makes things worse and probably helps gain some sympathy for iIsrael

1
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

They need a good fist to the face at minimum, what are you asking?

2
lemmy.world

Yeah. Hispanic and anti-genocide. This will be used by the trump administration to go after people they already hate.

3

I mean, he can be seen as another Luigi Mangione. The Luigi not of oligarchs but of genocidal people, which, at the end, are the same people (Trump, Thiel, Musk, Netanyahu, etc.). It is, again, a person acting violently about a situation that has many of us disturbed.

Yes, his name happens to be in Spanish; I do not see how that's damning for other Hispanic people. And I say this as a person that has no opinion about this type of violence (I cannot discern if it's justified or not), and as someone of mostly Hispanic heritage. I do not know if I support this Rodríguez man, but I can understand his reasons.

2
lemmy.world

It's rather interesting that I haven't seen anyone mention that this guy who was shot was almost certainly a spy.

2
lemmy.world

ITT: People fine with innocents being murdered because of their ethnicity.

Fucking hypocrites.

0
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

What does that have anything whatsoever to do with this being about an "ethnicity"? (It doesn't)

But anyway

What a fun, peace loving dude.

More recently, Lischinksy reposted a message from Ambassador Amir Weissbrod, which stated that the UN lied about 14,000 babies being at risk of dying in Gaza.

Oh wait

Lischinksy wrote, “Significant strikes against the Houthis today. Despite what they say, the group suffered heavy blows in recent months.

“These efforts must be sustained and continued. If they keep shooting, Houthi leadership + QF operatives in Yemen should be next.”

Of course, they'll occasionally go for some super soft "peace" initiative that realistically goes nowhere and conveniently supports the normalization of Israel's existence on occupied land instead of a peace which involves the dismantling of the Zionist state, Palestinian authority of the zone, and massive reparations.

14
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

Nice deflect.

Anything you dig up about her buddy?

Yeah she voluntarily signed up to be a representative of a genocidal settler-colonial state. Pretty damning stuff.

12
theparadoxreply
lemmy.world

Is there a problem with taking out Houthis?

You know the pirates shooting at commercial shipping?

Ah yes, because pirates blow shit up instead of taking it and selling it for personal gain.

Also, pretending like the Houthis situation is 100% independent of the Genocide in Gaza is disingenuous.

Israel has been an antagonist in the region for much of its existence. I'm sure the Houthis would take any excuse to fuck with Israel. However, their official line recently is basically "We're going to fuck with shipping until you lift the blockade on Gaza."

10

Ah, yes, terrorist. I can see now. I envy you and your simple, nuance free worldview. Just use that magic word and it all makes sense. No need to consider any other factors - they are terrorists so obviously you just kill them, right?

3
wpbreply
lemmy.world

The guy was killed because he was a German Christian? That's crazy, I could've sworn the killing had something to do with him working for Israel or something, and because Israel is committing a genocide. But if you say he was killed because he was a German Christian, I'm not one to argue with that.

8

Did I say that? I'm just expressing my surprise at the fact that this guy was killed for his ethnicity, which, again, is German Christian. Never knew folks had so much flak for German Christians. Weird that the killer would yell "free free Palestine" right after killing a guy for being a German Christian, but I guess he just felt like yelling that, an it's wrong to assume him yelling that had anything to do with his motivations for the murder.

3
eurekareply
aussie.zone

It’s the thing I said would start happening to Jewish folks and Israelis.

Are you conflating Israel and Zionism with being Jewish? Or are you simply suggesting Jewish people might receive collateral damage from Zionism, similarly to Muslims (and Arabs and Sihks and ....) after the 2001 WTC attacks?

12

The way I heard someone put it is "these are two more of the thousands of tragic deaths caused by Israel's genocide in Palestine"

5

This guy shot people coming out of the Capital Jewish Museum.

He had no way of knowing who they were.

He didn't kill them for working for Israel.

He killed them for being Jews.

-5
lemmy.world

Just as the tide of public opinion was turning against Israel. That guy probably got a few hundred thousand Palestinians killed.

-7
reddthat.com

You don't think this would be different if an Arab or a Muslim (not mutually exclusive) did this?

2
lemmy.world

If he yells "free Palestine" while doing it, that means he's associating himself with others who support a free Palestine. And that means other people won't want to associate themselves with them.

I feel like this is very obvious but people seem unwilling to acknowledge it. Because they view this guy as on their side. But he's on the side of narcissists, not people who are effective at saving Palestinian lives. He didn't think at all about whether this will save or cost Palestinian lives.

I feel like the free Palestine movement in particular needs to understand this: if you want to save Palestinian lives, you need to convince people. And you don't convince people by shooting at them, or by justifying people who shoot at them. Think about it: do you see Coke murdering Pepsi supporters as part of a marketing campaign? No. Because the people they hire for marketing are paid a lot of money to actually succeed. Instead they associate coke with positive things, by bringing in celebrities, and generally portraying coke drinkers as cool people.

You should try being more like coke. Sorry if this sounds belittling, but I feel like it needs to be said because free Palestine people seem to think the best strategy is to piss off the people you're trying to convince. And that has never worked once in the history of mankind.

1

If he yells “free Palestine” while doing it, that means he’s associating himself with others who support a free Palestine.

You aren't with a group simply by saying that you are. That group must also acknowledge that you are with them. Otherwise anyone could simply identify as belonging to any group without any checks to that. Association is a two-way street, and I haven't seen anyone stepping up to claim him.

The people committing genocide are literally wearing a uniform that identifies their association with Israel.

You should try being more like coke.

Maybe Israel should be more like Coke and stop committing genocide if they want people to support them, instead of doing a speedrun of pissing off the entire world.

Incidentally, Coke is a really bad example. They have done some absolutely dastardly shit and shouldn't be a role model for anyone. Don't drink Coke.

1
glimsereply
lemmy.world

Let's not jump to conspiracy theories just yet. It's completely realistic that someone would take out their anger on Israeli diplomats

15
glimsereply
lemmy.world

I didn't label you a conspiracy theorist, I was actually trying to be careful not to dismiss the suggestion entirely because yeah, that's also plausible. But saying it "seems awfully staged" hours after it happened is Alex Jones rhetoric we should avoid lest we start looking at stupid as the far right.

9
glimsereply
lemmy.world

Ok well I'm not sure why they jumped in then

1
TheOakTreereply
lemm.ee

...these are public forums. People can chime in when they want to...

3

You're not wrong about that but they jumped in to defend someone from an attack that wasn't happening, making me wonder why they replied at all

If you're gonna chime in on a public forum, read the comment first..

1
tatannreply
lemm.ee

You don't need evidence when you're a racist conspiracy theorist, like Mel Gibson

3

The thing about PR is reality can be irrelevant. If violence was done in association with anything pro-Palestine: it will be used to maximize that effect.

Same process that produces things like the Laken Riley Act.

6

This article is clearly anti-palenstinizem! The dead officials were clearly Israeli terrorists and the pair were merely protecting themselves. /s

Update: This is how it would be reported if the roles were inverted.

-19