What's the point in getting married?
If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?
I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren't those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?
I'm generally curious why people get married beyond the "because I love them" when it costs so much money.
160
Comments125
Marriage? Why, it's the greatest weapon in any noble's arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.
Marriage isn't about love; that's a peasant's fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.
When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father's bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.
Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you've created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.
Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.
Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.
So you ask what's the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?
Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.
Is there a Lemmy hall of fame yet?
There's at least ![email protected]
Posted!
Taxes. Health Insurance. Visa.
Marriage makes it easier for your spouse to get their due when you pass. If you were never married it doesn't matter how long you were together your estranged family can still relatively easily pick your corpse clean and leave nothing for the person you actually loved.
Marriage isn't necessary for a lot of those. A domestic partnership is a lot easier and can get you couples rights, health insurance, life insurance, and visa. Country dependent of course.
I personally don't intend on getting married since I hate that it's a religious practice enshrined in law. But between common law/domestic partnership, we don't need to.
Actually, marriage is one of the founding circumstances why we actually have laws. Although it is reasonable to assume that every marriage ritual in early societies had some kind of 'blessed be this couple' aspect, it originated out of civil necessity (structuring inheritance) before the Jesus Club took over and changed the meaning
and then it took humanity another 2000 years to move away from inheritance in favor of composition. you'd think someone would've realized sooner that it's not always the right abstraction...
That really depends on your jurisdiction. There are places where domestic partners have a different status. Mostly because of the long arm of the Catholic Church.
This guy knows. Of course you can get those another way, but marriage is the no questions asked route for most people.
Why do you think gay marriage is big news? Gays could always find ways around, but that's the point, marriage is easier and you need to jump through hoops to get the same thing, it's discriminatory and makes a difference between normal and not normal or acceptable ways of getting common ass rights and validations, absolutely useful for when you plan to spend more than a couple of years with someone.
Also, I think you confuse marriage with weddings, those are usually the expensive and stupid ones. Ceremonies are not required to be that stupid.
Getting married doesn't have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they're doing it for that sake, but it's not necessary.
I got married for free. In my town you can do that on Tuesday mornings. You can even bring up to 6 guests.
Did you not need a marriage license?
I got the marriage license there. It was at the building where my local/city government resides
Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.
What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.
And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.
Glad you mentioned 'next of kin.' This is the important answer. If you're married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.
Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There's no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you're at all related to this person. You're just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady's bedside. You can't make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they're estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!
(Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)
You can't even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren't awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can't let you see them, can't tell you anything.
This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it's a legal way to indicate that you're the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)
Jus an fyi, getting married costs basically nothing unless you have a wedding. It literally costs like $55 for the certificate at the court. You don't have to have a wedding that costs $50K. I know multiple people who literally just had some people over and got pizzas.
Some of my friends got married, and it was just people dressing nicely and meeting at our favourite restaurant to eat a bunch of delicious food. It was awesome.
I know some people who eloped.
They went to the registry office with a witness then did a week of cycle touring because that's their thing.
Posted it on social after the fact.
I thought it was a great way to go.
I didn't get married for the love or the religious reasons, it's just way easier when you buy a house together. Now, if I die, all my stuff automatically belongs to my wife.
We got married on a Tuesday morning at the municipal building at 8:30 making it free. The only thing we spent money on was the rings.
What town is this where everybody gets free Tuesday morning weddings?
Not that I need another one, it just seems to be happening a lot in here
This was Meppel but every municipality in the Netherlands has a free marriage half hour. It varies what day it is but it'll usually be early morning.
Most municipalities in the Netherlands have one morning per week for free marriages. Not always tuesday though.
Do you need to pay to get married ? I don't think we paid anything for the administrative side in France.
I seem to recall paying a fee. Looking it up online on the website, it would cost $80 today in the county where we got the license.
That actually depends on the country. In Germany, as an example, it doesn't automatically go to your wife - you still have to declare that in your will.
We have the option. If you get married you can get married in '(beperkte) gemeenschap van goederen', which means 'what's mine is yours'. Caveat is that anything you owned before you got married will not be taken into account.
Then there's 'huwelijkse voorwaarden' which means 'what's mine is mine'.
Same here, but for us, it is a common misconception that this also is for when one dies. Crazy system if you ask me because totally unintuitive.
In the Netherlands, if you don't have a will, it all goes to the spouse.
My marriage cost about 200 Euros and all of that went into Starfleet uniforms for the two of us. Our reason for getting married was financial, but we'd been engaged for 2 decades. Just hadn't gotten around to actually doing it, heh. Nothing's actually changed about our relationship since then because of course, why would it, we'd been together for 22 years before saying yes. But it's just a nice, grand gesture to proclaim to the world in no uncertain terms that you intend to stay together.
Edit: "no uncertain terms". Not "uncertain terms" because that's nonsense
I'm in the same boat. My other half has been stuck with me for nearly twenty years now and bigger and better things have come up that have needed the money spent on it.
The bit of paper will come in handy if one of us kicks the bucket though, or even when it comes to claiming certain tax allowances in the UK. I just want to make sure they're sorted financially when I end up brown bread, and proving their connection to me is going to me one of the last things on the list in the immediate aftermath of a bereavement.
I'm not arsed one way or another about it though.
I think "no uncertain terms" is the phrase you want there.
You pass the test! Yaaay! uh, yeah, everybody else fails the, uh, test that I, uh, intentionally setup by writing "in uncertain terms" instead of "in no uncertain terms"! Congrats!
Remember, kids: always proofread at least two times 😜
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler Thank you, appreciated :) :::
People have already pointed out the legal and financial aspects. But I also want to address the philosophical aspect of your question, which I think you had in mind. And I think the answer I would give you is this one:
Marriage has the meaning that you assign to it.
I strongly believe that if we got rid of any legal and financial benefits of marriage, even if we made it explicitly illegal, there would still be a bunch (or even a lot) of people who would get married.
I would compare it to a house fire. If my house was burning (and there were no living beings in it) and I could save 5 things, what would I save? What would you save? I would take, for example, my favorite soft toy from when I was a kid, and my old box filled with diaries. Is this worth any money? No. Does it have any value? To me, it does. To you, it doesn't. Maybe you are a very rational person that isn't attached to anything (or to nothing material) and you would indeed make the smartest choices, saving your passport and documents and money. Maybe you would save a small gift that someone important has given you. Maybe you would save the first guitar you ever bought. You save whatever has value and meaning to you. And these things have solely the meaning and value that you have attached to it.
Likewise, people have different value and meaning attached to marriage. If you look at it from a rational, logical side - it has its legal and financial perks and benefits and if they weren't there, getting married would make no sense. But things don't have to make sense. The meaning we assign to rituals, things, concepts, aren't necessarily rational. They are, however, deeply personal.
So, as a side note, please beware of ridiculing people for their views on marriage or weddings, just like you wouldn't want to ridicule or belittle someone for other things that mean a lot to them. Always sharing the last piece of bread. Always giving a coin to a homeless person. Having a breakfast for 30 minutes every morning. A good night kiss on the nose from their partner. Drawing a dick in the first snow of the winter. Some things mean a lot to people even if they do not rationally make sense.
In the case of marriage, of course, some of the meaning comes from culture, history, and tradition. Marriage might have had different purposes than it has now, and surely the origins weren't that romantic. (Not saying, however, that marriage has to be romantic.) But it is there. It is important to some people simply because they have, at some point in their life, decided it is important for some reasons, rational or irrational, social, cultural, and hopefully personal too. To them, it makes sense, it has meaning, it has value. And whatever marriage or a wedding ceremony mean - you decide.
So the question you should be asking is not whether or not you should get married, it is what marriage means to you. Does it have any benefit or value in your eyes? Are the legal benefits enough for you to get married? What is your stance on divorce? Do you feel like you would get "closer together" with your partner? Would you feel it would make things harder to separate? There are a ton on questions like these that you can ask yourself, I hope you get the jist. There are not right or wrong answers. The only thing that is important is that the meaning you assign to marriage is (about) the same as the meaning your partner assigns to marriage. You can both not care about a spiritual meaning, but just get married for the benefits. You can both be a type of "whatever happens, we don't get divorced, til death do us part". You can be "we'll keep reevaluating whether we still belong together". You can also be "we get married because we have children and this is practical". Or "we get married because I am hot and you are rich and when one of us loses their asset we split". Or "we just want a fancy huge ass party to show our love in this very moment and celebrate it with our friends and whatever comes afterwards is secondary". It doesn't matter what your view is, it matters that you guys agree.
Where I live marriage is pretty close to being entirely symbolic. Not entirely, of course. It gives some legal rights concerning inheritance and rights if one partner becomes sick and you need power of attorney, but for a couple of 20-somethings nothing that registered cohabitation wouldn't also provide.
People still get married. It's a symbolic gesture, it means something to the couple and to society as a symbol of love and mutual commitment. It is just an expected step somewhere along the line.
The point, as you mention, is whatever you want the point of marriage to be.
Where I live I don't think there is any difference between married and common-law, and even if there was most people actually get married at their city hall, with only a witness and government worker present.
The great big party that people still have is totally by choice.
It gives us certain rights and protections, tax benefits, etc. Hospital visitations, legal stuff, the ability to get in your own queue for immigration, and it's a sign to each other that you both are committed to each other for the long haul. It's a sign of trust.
As an example, medical care/inheritance rights are one.
Back before the days of gay marriage, there were no end of horror stories of LGBT people whose partners were dying from HIV, and were forbidden from seeing their dying partners, or for estranged family to swoop in and kick the "friend" out, preventing them from seeing their partner, often taking everything that belonged to the deceased in the process.
A relatively famous art piece has a similar story, where Boskovich's boyfriend's family swept in and took everything from their shared apartment after he died, effectively erasing their relationship in the process. All that was left was an electric fan.
What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.
Getting married doesn't have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.
If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it's just a lot simpler to be married. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it's just so much more of a hassle to not be married.
You're right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that's a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.
Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There's nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.
Neither my wife nor I wanted kids but we still got married. The legal aspects you touch on are pretty darned important even without kids in the picture. Health/medical reasons are another huge one. We have a friend who lived with her partner for decades, but never got married. When he fell ill and was hospitalized it was virtually impossible for her to make any decisions, tell the doctors what his wishes were, etc. All because they weren’t legally married.
Just last month, I left work early on a Thursday, met my now husband at the local courthouse, and we got married! Cost about $50 bucks. We're happy as clams about it, our families wanted us to do more but, that sounds like a them problem honestly lol
I do feel differently. Not more committed, I've long been ride or die with this human, but I get this sweet, sudden uprush of cozy emotions when I say, "my husband", or when he calls me "wife". I love him a lot and it makes me simultaneously very proud and very humble to declare that publicly.
I’m getting married this summer, for my girlfriend and I it is purely practical. We own a house together, but because of how the laws are here in Denmark my mom would inherit my 50% instead of it going to my future wife in case I die. We could pay a lawyer to make a document that’ll du the same, but it’ll cost the same as the party we’re throwing instead.
My partner and I are similar to you. We couldn't care less. I proposed to her, she said yes, we're happy with the way things are, nothing needed to change.
However. Legally speaking, when you get married, you are considered as a single legal entity in many things including court/law enforcement/taxes.
A person cannot be compelled to bear witness to their partners actions in court, in the USA, that's the fifth amendment, in Canada, it's section 11(c) of the charter of rights and freedoms. The basic concept being that you have the right to remain silent (and not incriminate yourself).
While I don't plan on doing any crime or anything.... That's a nice perk.
Also, she hates doing her taxes, so when we're married, I can do taxes for both of us.
There's very few perks here and bluntly, it's not worth the cost...
We're going to elope and just throw a "reception" (party) afterwards.
We wanted to do it this year on our anniversary, which was about a month ago now, but there was too much going on financially that even throwing a modest party with the budget constraints was going to create problems. We both had job disruptions in the last months of 2024, and things have just been a bit to hard financially to really bother.
We're starting to save for next year already. Planning shall begin soon.
The point is the legal benefits and publicly declaring your love and commitment, if you care about that.
You can spend as little as you want, if you only care about the legal status. But since you are probably asking about the usual big wedding - it's really just throwing a party to celebrate the act. It's not mandatory. Invite people you want to party with and celebrate life in a way you want.
What can suck about it is the peer pressure from parents and other people to do it the way they want, to do it "properly".
I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.
This exactly. It's an easily recognizable legal shortcut to a bunch of systems, rules and privileges that apply to the situation of two people wanting to live their lives together. Doesn't have to cost much, if anything, and doesn't have to have anything at all to do with religion or rituals. Can be just two people showing up at the town hall if you want it to be.
If you're looking for a rational argument for the big party or the religious ceremony or anything like that -- You won't find it. These things are meant to play to the emotional, and this isn't a flaw, it's the whole point. People really need to embrace that we are, in fact, very emotional creatures, and that this is not a bad thing, and that yes, a lot of the things we do are done just for the emotional satisfaction of it. Because it's fun, because it will make you or someone you care about happy.
If neither you nor your partner give two shits about big parties or ceremonies, then neither of you needs to bother. If said partner does want this and you don't, then y'know, maybe have a good chat about that and find a compromise. That's how partnerships work. (Me personally I'd love to organise my own wedding and go all quirky with it, but I can live without it)
Being legally married is a separate thing, and is inexpensive in most countries (just a small fee so the bureaucrats can process the bureaucracy), and at least in my country is often done weeks if not months in advance of the big party and/or religious ceremony, with the couple already being legally married while they organise their wedding stuff. To be legally married is to have you and your partner recognised by The State (tm) as being a family unit. This has uses for a few situations in life.
I am not married to my husband for legal reasons. This means when he dies, his family could take everything and leave me with nothing as I'm "just the girlfriend". Now, a will can help, but I dread what would happen because they still could fight it and it sucks. Being legally married basically shuts that down entirely.
Do you have common law marriage where you live? In some places you are considered “common law” married after living together for a certain amount of time, which can help in estate settlement.
Luckily no, because legally we do not want to be married. It would make most stuff more difficult.
My husband is an 'adult disabled since childhood'. If he marries anyone but another 'adult disabled since childhood' he loses all government benefits. Which he's currently using to you know. Survive.
But given the way the governments going he might lose it anyway so maybe we'll get married then before dying. Or something.
It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).
In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It's both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I'm not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).
That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called "Tenants in Common" because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can't sell half a house so that protects you. They're aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim "deliberate deprivation" and revert you back to joint owners.
That's just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That's really helpful! :)
A display of and testament to your eternal commitment, so that your loved one feels the intensity of that love, and your brother in law can get hammered and try to fuck your second cousin.
Seems pretty straightforward to me
Tax advantages, makes managing your estate easier if one of you dies, social status, etc.
Some rights can be similar, but you'll always have to declare the other person as your legal whatever. Marriage says to the state that this person is my default for pretty much everything--power of attorney, medical stuff, property ownership, etc. So if I get in an accident and fall unconscious, my wife doesn't have to fight the hospital staff to see me.
Depending on your country, there are other bonds that have the same legal binding as marriage.
In addition, if we're honest, there are some "soft" benefits as well. My wife changed her name when we got married, and having the same last name (and our kids having the same last name) avoids a lot of complexity with things like traveling (especially because our daughter is a different skin color than the rest of us). Marriage didn't explicitly grant us that privilege, but there are a lot of societal norms that come with it that have proven beneficial.
I'm not trying to claim that any of this is how it should be necessarily, but if you're asking about practical reasons why, those are some of them. If you want the practical benefits without the cost, it's (relatively) cheap to go to the courthouse or Vegas. Hell, you can get a friend to perform the ceremony for free, all you pay is for the marriage license. But if you're otherwise not interested in marriage and those benefits don't appeal (or whatever other reason), just stay dating.
Thanks for sharing! Concerning logistics when travelling I can also share my experience.
I travel on a Dutch passport and my children, while also having Dutch citizenship, travel on German passports because that is where we live and where my wife is from. They also use my wife's German last name. Therefore, when travelling, my kids and I have different names and nationalities. For some reason nobody ever questioned any of that. I keep a copy of the birth certificate just in case though.
This is not the case. Marriage gives you a lot of specific rights that can be covered by other legal documents but never together and marriage will override it. This is one of the main goals for giving gay marriage is all of the legal benefits of marriage which are expansive and complete. (This is of course in the USA this is not the case in other locations.)
There was a few legal pushes to separate these legal benefits from marriage into different legal rights that can be granted piecemeal. If you are intersted I would read The Other Significant Others which talks about people who prioritize friendships over marriage and how they interact with their "other significant other" which includes the legal discussions.
Yeah. My buddy lived with his SO. They had kids together. I believe they did have plans to get married but there were financial/planning considerations. At the time, the house was in his name.
He died unexpectedly and without warning due to a previously unknown medical condition. I don't believe he had a W&T.
The paperwork she had to deal with - much of which would have been not required had they been married - was horrendous, especially anything bank related. The bank also seemed to be doing their best to fuck her over in regards to the family home. It was a nasty ordeal.
What they used to saying in the gay marriage rights movement was the rights of marriage don't kick in the good times but in the bad. It's all the sickness and death and divorce when it's needed.
Kids. Being married before you have kids is huge in some states and important in many. In my state unmarried father's have no rights to children even if they sign the birth certificate. Sure you can adopt, but that's far more expensive than a marriage certificate.
Protection in the case of breakup or divorce. You have rights to shared property in a divorce, you have no rights to anything you didn't buy or put in your name otherwise. You can sort of solve this with making a partnership and putting all assets into it, but it's not quite the same and far more complicated. Also if you aren't the breadwinner, there isn't really a way to ensure spousal support without a marriage.
Legal protections. You can't be compelled to testify against a spouse. While you can do things like medical power of attorney, you don't get it by default like marriage, which means you either need that document on hand at all times or in an emergency situation you could be prevented access or decision making authority until you provide documentation. There's also social security, you can draw on a spouse, but there isn't an equivalent, same for pensions that offer survivor benefits.
Insurance benefits from employers generally require you to be married.
The feminists don't agree but historically marriage is there to protect the woman from having to raise a child alone. It is a socially and legally binding promise from the man that he won't abandon her when she sacrifices her ability to fend for herself in order to bear children.
A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.
Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.
All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don't think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.
So it's possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it'll work out.
Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It's a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don't feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.
It's a shorthand for all those other legal arrangements, in a pragmatic sense. You can build the same thing with documents that confer the different legal relationships, or you can use the pre-packaged bundle. A lot of the one-off arrangements require a lawyer and filling fees for each document, where the bundle can be done for a $25 or so fee, and a judge or the clerk who collected the fee, depending on your jurisdiction.
There are also social and relationship perks to a public declaration of commitment. It doesn't change anything, but a public declaration can make things explicit on all accounts.
Rings are just a social shorthand to communicate that to others passively
They also don't actually need to be expensive. They became expensive because people are usually willing to shell out a little more for a special occasion, and a lot of people wedged themselves in and argued that without them it wasn't really special. If you can't put a price on love, then how can $10k be too much?
If you've decided to make a public commitment, a little party to celebrate is legitimately fun. You just need to separate what you need for the party to be fun and feeling like the scale of the party is a testament to your love or sincerity.
When I got married the ceremony was five minutes and done by a friend of ours, we had our friends and the closer circle of relatives as guests and we didn't need to save up for things because we only got what would make us happy for our party. Our rings were cheaper than most because we talked to a jewler and had them make something according to our designs, and neither of us like diamonds. (Mine is a metal reinforced piece of a beautiful rock we found while rock hunting at a favorite camping spot, and hers is her favorite color, laid out well to avoid snagging on clothing.)
It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Mine was maybe 2 thousand and actually broke even thanks to very generous cash gifts, but even without that it would have been worth it to get all our friends and family under one roof to publicly profess our love.
Yeah. In the same way that any other shared experience or token does, but this is a very public one that is built up by our cultures and we can imbue with special meaning.
It's not for everyone, and it can be problematic, but I'm happy I got married and got the magic ring and all that.
First of all getting married is extremely cheap, just a small fee in most countries.
A marriage is a legal document that brings many legal consequences, from tax to residency and even hospital and death care there are many reasons why that document might be important for you. If you're going to spend the rest of your life with someone else, it makes a lot of sense to do it, it makes lots of stuff much easier.
Aight, you seem to want to ignore the legal benefits, so I won't mention that beyond saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to get married than to figure out all the paperwork needed to duplicate it, and not even have the exact same outcomes, just the majority. The tax thing, for example, you can't file jointly if you aren't married, no matter what else you set up (edit: in places where things like common law marriage aren't recognized)
The biggest thing is the experience, imo. The memory.
Now, me and my wife went to the JoP, with our kid and required witnesses (my best friend and his husband).
No fancy reception, no major party, just went home and said to my dad "we're back, no problems." He said congratulations, and went back to watching TV.
Total spent was about a hundred bucks, including gas. And the memories of it are wonderful, we cherish it all, and we're happy as hell we didn't do anything else.
Wedding ceremonies, however, are expensive once you go beyond that bare minimum. That's a cultural/sociological thing where the needs of the individual and the culture mesh into not only believing it necessary, but beneficial.
And, for the people that want it, it is beneficial. Ceremonies, rites, rituals, they serve a purpose beyond the legal or official status that comes with them. Weddings are as much about community as they are the couple. It's the union being both recognized and celebrated at the same time, even when it's a secular ceremony rather than religious.
Don't get me wrong, the money spent on empty bullshit surrounding weddings is absurd. But the actual wedding, where the community stands around the couple is incredibly powerful in terms of validation, even when it's the license that really matters legally. You can have ceremonies without the license; I performed several of them back before same sex marriage became legal. Those events were important, and doubly so because they had no legal standing.
I think that's what you're missing, that there's a massive difference between two people shacking up and marriage. When the people involved swear an oath, and/or exchange symbols of union it means something, even if there's no witnesses, not even someone to perform a ceremony. But as you move into witnesses and an officiant, it feels different because it is a public commitment. You can still divorce or whatever, but it happened, and you can never deny that. That moment, the vows, they exist in a way they don't if you swear only to each other.
Yeah, two people can be just as committed, and honor their commitment perfectly without anything else. But it feels different.
Now, again, I'd argue that once you start shelling out for crazy dresses and cake and niche receptions, you hit diminishing returns very quick. That's to satisfy other things, not the union itself. It may well make people happy, but it doesn't add anything to the underlying point of there being a ceremony in the first place. That of saying to the world "where once there were two, now there are one".
Not that anyone has to share the valuation, but it's what underlies the whole thing, and it has value
Not true. We filed jointly for years as common law. 🇨🇦
Ahhh, I made the error of forgetting to note that it does vary by location. Thank you :)
There aren't many benefits, I'm committed to my partner and we've been together for 7 years now. She's my life partner. Getting married doesn't offer much that you can't already do with other legal documents, such as getting the same rights to them in medical situations as you do with marriage. Tax benefits maybe
Neither of us want to get married because it does nothing for us, were already each others partners, even if we did, after marriage I would still refer to her as my life partner instead of wife.
Plus her very religious family desperately want us to marry and we both want to keep denying them that pleasure as early on in our relationship they were adamant we would split up if we didn't get married before living together.
It greatly simplifies life from a legal standpoint. It's basically like creating a tiny corporation of two people that can act as a single legal entity. If you're married it simplifies buying a house together, inheritance, medical decisions, etc. As others have pointed out, these are important especially when your partner's family don't approve of you or the relationship especially for LGBT people.
I am going to break the mold though and say the actual ceremony is important too. Declaring your intention to stay together for life in front of your friends and family changes things. It adds a level of security and finality to the relationship- you have to put your money where your mouth is on the relationship. Although people frequently do it, I don't know how someone can go through the wedding process without reflecting on how big of a deal it is to stand up in front of so many of your friends and family and declare your intention to stay together forever, even without the religious ritual aspect of it. I wouldn't want to have kids with someone without having this commitment, for example. Ultimately even though marriage is a social construct, I think it's still a useful one even in a world where women are no longer considered property of men.
My defacto partner and I have been together for 12 years. We've been trying to have kids for 6 years or so and got lucky with twins 2 years ago.
Being married wouldn't strengthen our bond or commitment in any way.
It's a shame my partner doesn't have the same surname as our kids. I've been meaning to ask her how she feels about it.
I wasn't married when I had my child. Chose to hyphenate. I'm unsure how I feel for your wife if this topic didn't come up two years ago, goodness
I'm not quite sure what you mean to imply.
The topic of marriage did come up 6 years ago when we decided to have kids. At that time we decided it didn't have much meaning for us.
We didn't really think about her family name at that time.
When the kids were born she was emphatic that they should have my family name. She actually has a family name from a previous marriage, which wouldn't be appropriate for our kids, and she's estranged from her actual family so didn't want her maiden name.
Since the kids have been born this has been in the back of my mind and I've been meaning to address it, I assume it's on her mind too.
Honestly, just attending to all the things that need to be done in the last 2 years has been very challenging. This just hasn't been a priority.
Also for context, de facto relationships have legal standing in Australia. So the law treats us as though we were married. Our situation is not uncommon.
I mentioned it to my sisters who suggested she could just use my family name as an alias, or just change her name to our family name, or we could elope. If she wanted to hyphenate that would be up to her of course but knowing her as I do I doubt she will want to.
Hey i wasn't trying to be hard on you, sorry it came off that way. I'm not married either, and been with my, what we call, common law "husband" for many many years now. The last name thing is complicated for me too, you dont gotta explain to defend your choices, I don't care what other folks do in their lives, not hurting anyone.
I just laughed and am knocking on you saying youve been meaning to ask her how she feels about the situation, and you've "been meaning to ask" for two years since you had the kids, goofball
I married my partner, after being with them for over a decade, and a few years of living together full-time. It was mostly for admin reasons (we just bought our home, and being married made things easier if one of us died). If it wasn't for that I don't think we would have bothered. We know we love each other, and had decided a few years before that if we'd get married if we ever needed to, so it wasn't like we ever 'proposed'. Just a tiny ceremony with two friends as witness, and we went out to a restaurant for lunch afterwards. I don't think it cost us anything beyond lunch? Maybe a tiny admin fee?
But... I'm so happy we did! It's weird! I never really cared, and rationally, I still think it hasn't changed anything. But somehow it feels... really nice? I still regularly think (and tell them) "I'm so glad I married you". I'm sure there are lots of other things that you can do to symbolise your relationship or commitment. If I got a tattoo inspired by my partner I'd probably have the same feeling of looking at it and thinking of them that I do when I play with my wedding ring (2€ piece of silly junk from aliexpress. And we each bought a bunch of spares so that when we inevitably lose them it's not a problem). But actually a marriage is one of the simplest and cheaper ways (if you don't choose or feel pressured into turning it into a stupid moneysink).
Tldr: didn't care about marriage, got married for tax, and weirdly found it deeply satisfying in a completely unexpected way.
Two reasons: Practical considerations (shared assets, certain legal protections, I've seen people get married for an easier go re: immigration in some cases, etc. Basically check your local laws); and ritualistic.
I find people often discount the importance of certain ritual practices in Western secular society, and for a lot of people ritual in general is a whole lot of fluff and nonsense. But having a ceremony to recognize a formal joining of two people, and by extension their families (to varying degrees), with the at least ostensible intent that you will live and die in partnership with that person, is a powerful thing. It's a common ritual among multiple societies, with lots of variation and differences in exactly what it signifies, but the ubiquity speaks to that power IMO.
Don't get me wrong - I think divorce is a good thing for when the partnership truly does not and cannot work, and people can live happily in lifelong unions without marriage - but for some folks, taking that vow in the eyes of your friends and family (and whatever deity concept you may have, if that's your kink) is a very important and serious thing. Something changes, to some degree, when you take that oath.
It doesn't have to be expensive - that it often is, IMO, is a function of capitalism infecting a beautiful thing more than anything else. You can have a wedding in someone's backyard officiated by someone who paid $25 online for a certificate, with a small number of close friends and a potluck BBQ afterwards, and it would be just as valid and meaningful as a wedding that cost 100k (shit, IME the smaller one is actually more meaningful in a lot of cases). It's the intent, ritual, and meaning participating parties place on it that's important.
Depending where you are, there are tax benefits to legally married couples.
If cost is an issue, you can have cheap wedding. But I think the concern is more cultural in which there is an implicit expectation to have a grandiose wedding, like in a church and have a huge gathering and party with dozens if not hundreds of attendees.
Medically if something were to happen to one of you, the medical staff can only engage with next of kin or a parent. It makes those medical emergency situations much easier to navigate through. Sure, you can go through all sorts of legal stuff to make it work and spend a ton of money on legal fees, or just spend the $50 on a marriage certificate, do a courthouse wedding, and be done. It's an all in one package deal.
It can be very, very inexpensive for the costs of a court filing fee and a friend getting an online certification to officiate the wedding.
You get tax breaks while married, and a lot of things in life are easier when you're married and sharing the same living space, bills, etc. The world has been built to make it more economical and easier.
It's the getting divorced that's expensive and sucks. As long as you can avoid doing that, or have a prenup in place, you're good.
You pay less taxes, its easier to get a loan (if you both have good credit), you automatically have all the rights to know about their health in an emergency situation, whereas a girlfriend/boyfriend needs to go through extra steps, some of which are impossible in an emergency. Some people also view marriage as a very religious thing and so that part of it is a big deal to them.
Kind of a niche answer, honestly me and my wife of 20+ years might still be “living in sin” if it wasn’t for her decision to join the military, in order for me to move with her to her home base, we had to be married. It allowed me to visit Alaska which was a great adventure, though I am glad that she is out and we are living normal lives since.
My wife and I met ages ago. We were friends for a while. Went on some dates, and eventually got together. I think we were dating about 8 years before getting married, we knew we were compatible. We didn’t rush anything.
I got married in Vegas, it was a very affordable wedding. That was almost 10 years ago.
If one of us dies, being married is a very easy way to make sure the other person inherits everything they need to survive.
I also see how impressed older people are when we say we are married, it seems so few people get married anymore.
There are so many good reasons to get married. Just be sure before jumping in that both are on the same page of life and goals, compatibility, compromise and understanding, etc.
My partner and I wanted it for legal reasons, especially since I'm disabled so he can make medical decisions etc.
We can either "register as partners' or get married. Both cost the same. Marriage had a wedding party. Costs a lil bit more, but brought together all of our friends and had a beautiful day. So why choose boring?
Had a coworker who got married because the paperwork (or rather leak thereof) for the dad when they had kids.
For me it was a way of showing my love, a way of showing that I want to commit long term.
Yeah, when you're married the husband will automatically be registered as the dad instead of 'having to prove it'.
Our wedding had a double layer: we had the plan in our head for a while. Then my dad passed away and on his deathbed my now husband promised him he would take care of me like how he took care of me. So, it became incredibly emotional (6 months later) as some sort of seal on that promise too.
Depending on the country it can make e a significant difference in finances, because taxes, inheritance laws, credit scores, etc.
Finances aside, yes, for some people the ceremony is a ritual that carries heavy meaning and the ring and a ceremony is a way to strengthen the relationship. Is a ritual that is culturally significant and very significant for some. Everyone is different so just because for you and me it is irrelevant that's not the case for thousands of others.
It's like swearing an oath of sorts. You may ask yourself, why do they waste time in court making people say they won't lie and why some need to do it with a bible? People still lie after all. Or what difference does it make when people hook pinkies over a promise? It's just a promise like any other and it can be broken. But people still do these things, and they get married too.
So, Suze Orman is a fairly well-known investment advisor. Back when marriage equality was new, she totted up that there were over 1100 benefits to getting married. I don't know what they all were, and I'm sure some of them are obscure, but still ....
The answer will likely depend on the place in the world and even on the cultural background of individuals getting married. I'll just share my experience.
We got married out of convenience. While it's technically possible to arrange the bulk of the legal stuff with various contracts, it is just easier to use the "default contract" that already covers the most common use case. Some legal arrangements, for example cuts to inheritance tax or the right to remain silent when asked about your spouse in legal proceedings, are only available for "real" marriages.
Once we decided to have children we looked into the various arrangements needed to make that work and quickly found out that marriage is the easiest way to sort everything out. In our day to day life nothing really changed. In legal terms quite a lot is now different.
By the way, as others have mentioned, getting married isn't expensive. All we paid was the administrative fee which was something like 50 Euros.
Getting legally married is intended to protect the couple under certain circumstances as you suggest. You could attempt to perform the same with other legal means but it would be harder and costlier; like you deciding not buying a car but putting one together yourself.
The notion people get legally married out of love or worse that "a paper does not say I can love a person" seem to just have a 7 year old notion of what marriage is
Of course there are the legal benefits people have mentioned, but I think a lot of it is that humans love our symbolism and ceremonious tradition. Sure, the ring and ceremony aren't what make your bond, but it is symbolically immortalized through them.
Weddings don't have to be incredibly expensive. My wife doesn't like diamonds, so I proposed to her with a piece of her birth stone. We had our wedding in a state park, we were able to reserve a large section of it for sub $100. We went with simple silver wedding bands from a local jeweler. The biggest cost was food and drink for 70 people. Even though ours was comparatively cheap for a wedding, you could do it way cheaper. Some couples choose to elope, some have a smaller ceremony with only their closest family. It doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg to be a beautiful day.
Legal items aside. My wife has my back and I have hers. Having a partner in life you can trust with yours is a special thing.
It doesn't have to even be man and woman. I know a group of older men who have a group dynamic where they are all basically each other's partners....not sexually, just supportive.
I think the question is not questioning relationships, but asking why a marriage itself is worth anything.
You can have a lifelong partner without being married to them
I got married while standing in a river and I incorporated a pagan ritual in front of a select few of unsuspecting parents and their spouses.
Worth.
A month and a half later we held a fancy reception dinner and served pancakes.
Also worth.
I want someone to marry me again someday. I want someone to stand in front of my friends and family and profess their love and devotion.
I gave up on that dream a couple of years ago.
My grandfather died in the 80s, 20 years later my grandma got a boyfriend, a widower similar to her age, so both in their mid 70s. She once said that she thought she would be alone for the rest of her life and never thought she would be so in love again.
They never married but had 15 beautiful years with each other. What I'm saying is that it's never too late to find happiness, no matter what that might entail.
That’s really nice to hear, but I’m tired of waiting to find someone that cares for me as more than just a friend. I recognize that I likely will never find that.
I think you're wrong, I am sure that there is someone out there for you and I am sure that it will be unexpected and strange and different than you imagined in ways you can't even think of today but it will happen. Just be careful not to reject it because you were conditioned by yourself and others to not believe it.
I hope you have a great weekend <3
I think it cost us nothing. I’m in Finland and happily married after many many years.
Getting dressed up and having a big ol party
I talked about this a lot with my partner since we had been living together for a couple of years before we decided to get married.
Marriage, to us, is really just an external expression of the love that we share and the commitment we have already made to each other. The marriage itself is not the commitment, just a statement of it. There are lots of members in our families who disagree and say that marriage itself is the commitment, but then again they’re the same ones who have been divorced or who have extremely unhealthy relationships with their spouses.
Leaning on a piece of paper with your signature on it as the reason you’re staying with someone is idiotic; paper tears extremely easily. I choose to love my partner, not because a paper tells me that I chose that long ago, but because I wake up every day and make that decision.
Why get married? I dunno, if it doesn’t mean the same thing to you, then don’t, and I say that with no judgement at all. If you care more about the person than you do about the idea if marriage (like I do) and you gain nothing from a marriage, then don’t worry about it and just focus on the person, yourself, and the relationship you both share.
Being married doesn't need to cost anything. You could not organizing any kind of célébration. You could stop at a dinner with the guests you can host at home. Or do a big party on a yacht with firework. It doesn't matter.
Getting married is officializing to society that the person you love is your family. Building a link separed from love that could fade and vary with time.
This link make also easier to share advantage that is usually reserve to one. Patrimoine, possession, inheritance, joined whatever. It give you the right to make décision in the name of your SO in hard times. If they had an accident, if they are missing or having a dire disease.
Many people fear prénuptial contract but it is the best way to build a marriage in a way to have all the advantage without the dependance. And realising that a relationship might end and that each should be fearly treated without having to fight for it doesn't equated douting a relationship. If you don't fear séparation, you can sign anything. Right ?
It's the symbolism
I want to show the world that I love my woman, and I'll do it in every way that I can
Depending on state, healthcare applies to spouses but may not for long term partners. You can’t do that with a will or trust
You also get tax benefits
Getting married should only be expensive if you want it to be, although too many people fall for the peer pressure.
Are you perhaps asking from a US perspective? Or maybe Indian too. I don't know of any other countries where marriage is expensive really.
We got married in Vegas as a fun thing to do, since we're Swedish. Legally the difference is extremely small between being "sambo" (co-living) and being married, and we could just as well kept going without getting married.
Depends a lot on your personal situation, and jurisdiction.
Doing a ceremony when you publicly say you love each other is already a valid reason
In some jurisdiction, you'd get a form of tax benefit for being married, it often comes with downside like having welfare benefit based on the couple revenue rather than on individual ones (hence the tax benefit). Talk with an accountant/Tax-lawyer knowing your local laws for details
It gives a legal status to your shared asset. Sure you could create a real-estate-investment company to buy your house and many people do that but being married, with a proper prenup give you a lot of agency regarding your shared asset
It protects the weaker partner, usually the one scarifying their carrer for the couple if things goes wrong
No need for a big ceremony, you can get a notary to prepare the pre-nup contract, and do a ceremony at the townhall with 2 witnesses and done.
I follow most of these points but I'm not sure I understand point 4?
"sacrificing their career"
Ohh like if the couple is gonna have kids? Makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up!
Socially it's an excuse to party with everyone you love.
Legally it's only worth it if you have kids, plan to migrate countries, or have shitty immediate family among other things. But if you're just in a long term relationship with your finances otherwise separated, no kids or end of life concerns,
then it can be somewhat detrimental as you're just inviting the state in to meddle with your life.it's just a formal interaction with the state.Edit: see replies.
This is a shallow and very "I just think about the next few hours" view...
First of all, there are a lot more legal protections to married couples even if no kids are involved. Second, I guess you know when you are going to die so you can be certain there won't be any end of life concerns, you are certainly immune to accidents, right? But also, you don't have to be about to die to want your fiance to be allowed in the hospital room with you (which they won't be if you are unable to provide approval and they are not legally your partner)
The "state" does not meddle in married life either... this is a rednecky thing to say... unless of course you are referring to treating your partner like crap or attempting to deny them any protection they are legally entitled to
Yeah i was half awake, a bit harsh ig.
Maybe a better formed argument is that getting into a marriage legally is way too easy compared to the legal process of leaving one. Even if you have all your things in order and everything is completely amicable the dissolution can be a a very drawn out process, especially if you can't be present in the state you were married in.
The part about being in a hospital, only applies if the partner is not conscious, otherwise they can consent. Some other counties have another method for this where if you've simply lived together long enough those sorts of protections exist. So yeah you have a fair argument in the US. Is it a valid reason for legally formalizing your marriage? That's up to you and your partner to decide.
I think my major annoyance is that people put emotional value into the legal matter of marriage as though law and the state had some interpersonal value.
Likely, sorry about that
This is a completely different point than your original one though. And, while somewhat true, the countries that have strong marriage protections will not save you from a separation even if there is no marriage (more on this below)
Or impaired in multiple other ways... but yes, the not conscious part if key because you could be in a medically induced comma to spare you the pain and someone may need to advocate for you in case a decision needs to be made. If you just had minor issues, there would be no problem but we are fending off the worst scenarios, no need for legal protection for minor stuff
Correct and those same laws are the ones that basically have you automatically declared "common law" (or whatever preferred term) which makes a separation almost as hard as a divorce (coming back to point 2 above)
At the end of the day, yes of course it is for the couple to decide... I just want to make it clear that you do not normally get the same level of protection by just having a will or a power of attorney (or it would be actually worse in those cases) and that people should consider this WAY more than "I don't need a paper to say I love someone", that is not what legal marriage is about
I didn't ever marry my ex, was irritated at how discriminatory legal marriage was back then, and we had kids so were a family anyway.
My husband now? He really wanted to be married, and "stepdad" is a different legal status than "mom's boyfriend", it smooths things when he had to do school pickup or doctor visit. So since he pushed and as I did see an upside we did.
Also you can't foster or adopt here unless you are married - unmarried man in the household is a known risk to the kids he's not related to. Statistically, it raises the risk of the kid getting hurt so single people can, or married couples but not unmarried hetero couples.
I am with you logically, I don't need it, and don't feel different and it's weird for the state to license families. I understand religious marriage but am not religious.
L in addition to protecting your land from invaders It’s very important when it comes to having kids. If you are married it’s easy
It makes boomers respect you more.
Idk I hate it though my former bestfriend thinks of me as nothing more then a line item in her check book and I have to pay for her poor decisions.
Visa.
It's not relevant in most countries because if it were you could just get married and get a visa.
As a male, none.
Have been helping people in family court for twenty years. The shift had been catastrophic for marriage from a male risk/reward.
It doesn't HAVE to cost so much. The wedding doesn't cost a lot.
The ceremony and the party are what cost a lot.
But you can go down to city hall, in plain clothes, pay a small fine, fill out some paperwork, bada bing bada boom, married.
But good luck getting 99% of women to give up their dream wedding for a city hall wedding with 1 city appointed witness, and no guests.
Why the pointless sexist stereotyping?
A small fee rather than a small fine, surely?
Plenty of women don't care about a "dream wedding"