California to negotiate trade with other countries to bypass Trump tariffs
https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414Open linkView original on lemmy.world1112
Comments330https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414Open linkView original on lemmy.world
Here we go, dissolution of the U.S. is starting. It's a slow roll, but i think that's where we are headed
I would love to visit the country of California.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZCaDI0nYf0
been thinking and saying for years that we’re on the path to a soviet style balkanization. just wasn’t sure what would be the spark. this certainly smells like one.
The US has been there before with the Nullification Crisis of 1832. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis?wprov=sfla1
I guess history really does rhyme.
Well the south finally will get to leave the union and form florida-man-istan, jesus-wasteland-istan and all-hat-no-cattle-istan. Good luck to them. We should have a going away party before we put up a wall to keep them from trying to get back in.
Why not let them back in? There's some good people in the red states; it's a shame we can't easily relocate all of them.
...we'll have to check their voting history first.
Nothing says a wall can't have a door in it. If you want to come here, and aren't a total douchebag, we can let you in. Maybe even let you stay if you want to. 🤣
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.
I escaped the south, they need to as well.
The amount of absolute evil down there is unimaginable.
We need to build a wall.
Will it be California first? Or maybe Alaska? Hawaii? We know one's gonna try and split, just not which.
Cheeto will 'gift' Russia Alaska for its help with Greenland
Not Hawaii at least in my opinion. The military foothold is too high, California might have a similar problem but the state is so much bigger that I don't think that it is as much of an issue. I think Alaska is most likely though. Might pull a Texas and succeed and then ask to become a part of Canada.
Sadly it's a near inevitable outcome of an overly powerful Federal Government attempting to deal with a population this large. The more powerful the Federal Government gets the less able it is to balance the different desires of its citizens and the less popular it becomes.
The solution was to NOT have such a powerful Federal Government but we tossed that out the window around somewhere between 1900 and 1920. It may not happen now over this but the clock is ticking and it's going to happen at some point over something.
It will be terrifying and terrible when it happens.
A lot of this could be fixed by reforming the senate which is a big part of why that will never happen.
Unfortunately, we keep giving a small amount of people a lot of power. The cons have way too much representation in relation to their numbers. The other huge problem is that we have a system of legalized bribery, which is just insanity.
If Texas somehow joins California, were fucked
Texas? Unlikely
I think that's a reference to the Civil War movie a while back.
Bingo
I think it would be much more likely for the west coast as a whole to split. WA, OR, CA
Suck it, Manifest Destiny!
I could also see Nevada, Arizona, and maybe even Idaho joining. Though Idaho would probably need to have it pointed out that they're fucked without the other western states.
We've been heading there for a long time and much of the rest of the world has been feeding into the two-sides divide. It's easier to see when you already loathe both sides for different reasons. But the US has been a powerhouse many would love to see taken down. Generations of work towards that are paying off, and the US working class will suffer the most.
Unfortunately this runs into constitutional problems. While the spineless subhuman creatures in congress and the supreme court seem to have no problem with Trump and his administration ignoring the constitution I fully expect them to come down hard on any state that does so (at least in cases that go against Trump and his policies).
Don't have to care about being unconstitutional if you're not part of the union.
That's great in theory but just as unrealistic in practice for California as it always has been for Texas. The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
Any attempt to leave the US that has any hope of succeeding would be a very long and protracted process that would make Brexit look breakneck in comparison. We're talking at least a couple decades at a minimum.
It's either that or another civil war and that has so many variables I'm not sure anyone has any hope of predicting how that would turn out.
Economics in general. California is responsible for a significant chunk of the entire US GDP as well as being one of the primary shipping hubs. My point was more along the lines that these other problems are tractable, you could for instance negotiate trade deals between the rest of the US and California. The military on the other hand is a much tougher problem akin to unscrambling an egg. There's no obvious way to disentangle California from the greater US military.
Any military option automatically removes any economic benefits that could have been possible in peace time. As soon as any conflict appears, everyone will spend more money on fighting, defending that in saving or creating profit. No matter who may "win", everyone will lose and it would take decades to recover from it.
Did you mean to respond to someone else? This seems like a bit of a non-sequitur from my comment.
That's how you get invaded by the military
Thankfully CA can fund its.own military once we no longer need to send charity to all the red states with dirt for an economy. Actually, our police forces in the state routinely spend more money than entire foreign militaries. I'm sure with a couple trade deals and strategic defense pacts that California can easily become it's own country.
California's food industry relies heavily on water from out of state, if those rivers dried up because flow got restricted to a trickle, it would be bad for their industry. None of this would happen without violent conflict though. Remember when the north burned the south to the ground? That is our historical precedent for how to respond to secession.
I could see Oregon and Washington State throwing in with Cali, giving all of them a direct line to nice fresh Canadian Rocky BC Springs because we up here in Canada would be an instant ally of any states that broke off.
You cannot get water from southern Oregon into California by any practical manner. Same as the person you replied to, the Central Valley and coastal regions are inaccessible except from the Sierra Nevada or Colorado River.
Most of Oregon hates Portland these days, and I grew up in Portland. But I don't think secession would be up to a vote, it would be decided by violence like it always has been. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be successful, but I think Portland would still be burned to the ground.
That's always been the case that the rural backwater hillbilly sister-fucking areas hate the cities. The same is true in California. But it doesn't matter because there are more people in the cities so they have more power so the yokels can't do shit.
Much of the agricultural land would be fine. However the population centers in SoCal would have to make drastic cuts without the Colorado River.
California is at the forefront of water conservation recycling in the US, and supports energy self sufficiency. The water issue is a problem, but not nearly as big as you might think. The state and water districts regularly fund new technologies and invest in storage. It would suck for a while, but in the long run, freedom from federal system might actually speed up changes that need to be made anyway.
We could do without almonds and wine. The US has more than enough soybeans and corn and wheat and potatoes go around. Nobody is going to starve without California's agriculture.
Why are you growing water intensive almonds in what should be a desert anyway?
Most vegetables and fruit not imported from Mexico are grown in California. Enjoy your scurvy.
That's the problem .... if you are damned if you stay and damned if you leave .... everyone starts weighing the options of either situation
The choices for staying become ... stay and beholden to federal government that ties your hands, manipulates your economy and uses you for their benefit while never allowing you to do what your people want for themselves
or ... secede and fight a political, economic and possibly even a military conflict to decide your own future
either options is terrible in the long run (if things continue as they are) but staying means things stay indefinitely terrible while seceding gives a higher chance of political autonomy.
If you're going that far, why wouldn't you want the other states? Just take over the whole government instead of trying to secede.
For one, because the way that the government is set up means that you would need the cooperation of at least 26 states to ensure control of the legislative and executive branches, and even then, the Supreme Court justices are lifetime appointments, so you'd have to wait a long time to get the judicial branch on board. So you'd have to wage a war of conquest to secure the entire country. For another, much of the country is a burden on California's economy. They're the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world on their own, and many of the states are dependent on their tax money and produce.
I think if you're seriously talking about seceding, the most practical/logical plan would be a coalition of like-minded states seceding to form their own nation or EU style group of nation-states. The most likely to consider it would probably be the west coast and the northern end of the east coast (New England specifically), which would be a logistical nightmare for everyone involved - both for the US having hostile nations on all sides as well as any seceding states trying to trade across a hostile country between them. Though aid from friendly countries would be easily available, as both coasts border Canada (and Mexico on the west) and have plenty of infrastructure for trade internationally.
There's not a large difference between that and a war for secession. Either way it's violence.
One is holding ground that you already own vs. taking ground by force. From a military standpoint, there's a massive difference.
Not that I disagree that it's violence either way, mind you. It's just a different scale and situation.
Civil war it is.
Seems like it would be easier to untangle from the U.S. military if the California populace had access to... something... maybe something that throws metal really fast? Idk
I mean it's California. At that point just get a few neighboring states on board, take all the military hardware and shit and be like "Wanna go to war over it?".
Leaving the union? Yep you guessed it, unconstitutional. Secession would absolutely cause a war
Yeah, if things were so bad that you were considering secession you might as well cut to the chase and just try to overthrow the US government because they would absolutely go after you hard
P.s. for any government officials who read the above comment, I'm not advocating for overthrow of your stupid little clubhouse, I'm pointing out why secession is a bad idea. Also, quit wasting my tax dollars looking at stupid shit.
Would you rather be complicit with fascism or fight for something better?
Also, you're overlooking how much CA funds the rest of the nation. Flyover states do not function without funding from states like CA and TX. Take the west coast from the rest of the US and all that's left struggles to qualify as third world lmfao
and balkanization of the states begins.
So? It's probably worth it at this point. I'd enlist.
Republicans would absolutely love it if the most populous state that consistently sends huge numbers of Democratic representatives to DC was out of the picture. You think Democrats can’t do shit now, see what happens when you lose 40+ democrats from the House.
Won't matter to me. We'll leave to US to the Republicans.
Yeah, I’m not cool with leaving my friends and family to just die because they don’t live in CA.
That wouldn't be happening because they don't live in CA, it would happen because of Trump who exists in this role whether CA leaves the union or not.
Do more democratic Senators and Representatives do anything or not? Because 6 months ago it was vote blue no matter who, now suddenly it doesn’t matter if we jettison 2 Democratic senators and 40+ Democratic reps as long as you get yours.
The "vote blue no matter who" people were just "blue MAGA" folks trying to justify their support of genocide and those senators and reps along with the DNC leadership are now happily sitting on their asses while Trump's power goes unchecked, so who cares whether they keep their titles? It's not as if they're actually using their positions to fight back. They're just acting as controlled opposition.
I had to escape the vile south to get away from violent racist monsters.
Shit happens.
Tell them to move.
Yarvin’s technobrocratic dystopia will have a bunch of these little states run by CEOs, and you wouldn’t have any voice in how it’s run, but you would be free to leave. Is that what you want?
“Sell your home and leave your jobs and maybe it’ll work out” doesn’t fly as well as you think.
I did.
I'm brown and fled the south as soon as I could.
Best decision I ever made.
Fucking worthless inbred filth need a wall to contain their damage, let them deal with each other.
Constitution? What constitution ?
What’s good for the goose…
If the union doesn't provide any benefits and only costs money and prevents your state from functioning as well as it could and the union only makes solutions harder to solve ...... why stay in the union?
States stay together because of mutual benefit, not because of a document or promises.
And you could force a state to stay in a union by force but the cost of doing that far outweighs the benefits of a peaceful union.
Don't forget they're Democrats.
When the courts rule against them they'll just meekly comply.
Is your state governor doing anything to oppose Trump?
If memory serves right the person you are responding to is probably British. Or at the very least I don't think they are American, so don't take much of what they have to say particularly seriously.
If they are british I hope that they are paying attention and doing what she can to keep the UK from following in our foot steps even farther.
See my other response to peregrin5 but in addition you're assuming rational actors all around. Actual reality is far more messy with many of those involved making decisions based more on feelings than any in depth reasoning. States stay together because there's no obvious alternative. There's no mechanism for a state to leave the union and doing so requires solving many problems that have no obvious answers.
They could implement this by just not charging the duties at the ports in California and see who blinks first.
Do they have control over that? I assumed that was handled by feds
Federal and local government are likely both involved. With the doge cuts, who knows how many boots they actually have on the ground for this these days?
Let the feds try to enforce it then. Texas immigration officers basically kicked the feds out when they started doing federally illegal shit, the federal government is barely held together these days. Force them to do something about it. If the flow of money between California and the US stops, California is the big winner so they have all the leverage in the world.
The Trump administration has demonstrated that the constitution doesn't really matter. Why keep pretending like this is some sort of sacred immutable text? The spell has been lifted.
Just because Trump and his goons are ignoring it doesn't mean his cronies in congress and the supreme court won't still use it to attack anyone they want to.
But without boots on the ground, enforcement won't happen. If Trump mobilized military on his own nation, he will well and truly enter the final find out phase of his life. The social contract is wearing thin.
Wouldn't take the military, he can call on federal marshals, the FBI, the NSA, the CIA, and probably even some of the local police would be willing to become his dogs. He could also in theory deploy one states national guard into a different state although that's a little shakier legal ground. That's assuming of course that the local officials would refuse to appear in court or a congressional summons voluntarily. There's also other ways of exerting pressure like refusing to issue federal funds (although that's far less effective against Democrat states since they contribute more federal funds than they receive, particularly California).
National Guard is military. Using federal law enforcement might be on the table but they're woefully underequipped to deal with California as a whole.
yes, without any shared understanding around whether we enforce all laws or just some, law books are just reems of scratchy toilet paper. So are everyones holy books, and any international agreements we have.
Trump doesnt care about laws and law enforcement has openly hated the public for a long time. Their oaths to serve the law are a vanity that they jettison whenever its convenient.
And Biden/Harris violating god knows how many genocide and arms laws for zionist $ and then losing the election and support across every voting demographic didnt help matters. I wish I could go back in time to the day Obama picked Biden as his running mate and shake Obama until he picks someone else.
The article states California is negotiating with other countries to exclude California from those countries' retaliatory tarrifs on US goods.
There's nothing the federal government can do about that.
That's not actually true, there are things the federal government can do. First it's a grey area legally. The constitution says trade deals (and trade outside the borders of any one state) is the domain of the federal government.
The argument in this case would be "Is this a trade deal?". It certainly sounds like a deal, and it involves trade, but the key technicality would be if California is giving anything in return. Are they promising anything in exchange for no or reduced tariffs or are they just asking with the promise of nothing in return? If they're not promising anything there's a pretty good chance they could win the argument that this isn't a trade deal and therefore the federal government has no legal basis to intervene (although it's worth pointing out that the current administration hasn't particularly let legality influence their actions).
On the other hand if California is promising something in return there's a decent chance the federal government could successfully argue that that meets the definition of a trade deal and is therefore prohibited. This also raises the question of why another country would agree to remove tariffs from California if they aren't promising anything in return. The only answer I can come up with is to figuratively (and maybe literally at the same time) give the middle finger to Trump.
... the federal government can prove ...
Of anyone in government was good at proving backhanded deals without exposing their own, we'd be in a very different place right now.
Something something taxation.... something something representation... help me out here americans
It looks like they're just going to lobby trading partners to please direct (actual) retaliatory sanctions towards products from red states, not their state. In general, I like that idea. But maybe now any excemptions for blue state products should come with a promise to actually fight the incipient fascist government...
Last civil war was about state rights to own slaves. Now its state right to avoid trade distribution?
My god the writers need to be fired.
And big money in politics. I’d argue Citizens United was the Dread Scott of our time.
Unfortunately, there have been a lot of Dred Scotts of our time.
Dobbs, Trump v Anderson, et cetera.
Fair point Trump v Anderson for sure
Turmoil has engulfed the United States of America. The taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
How 'bout religious awakening against trump?
Isn't it for trump?
Yes, but remember the Jews are a very crafty folk. They are building their plot of canonization through trump - however their is one other person that could supercede his religious seat.
The right name, at the right time, in the right place makes all the difference.
However normal people are so antichristian without even trying to understand the reasoning behind a christian book. Which I find really frustrating, as they don't understand it is pivotal to capturing the world's heart. It has been used as the archetype for the modern worker and their submission. Submission to each other is kindness, and peaceful. However, we are forced to submit to a faceless corporation, for which we must revere, fear, and hold above all else while in position. Essentially making a false god in all but name, however this unbreathing beast controls your lives.
Literally what I was thinking thx
All hail The New California Republic. But in all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me if the United States has a balkanization event happen in the near future.
The US does not need balkanization.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding, because they cannot see any governmental or religious structure as legitimate unless it is founded on the principles of racism. This is their own words.
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south, we should have let Sherman finish then build a wall around them, while letting any slaves who wanted to escape do so.
Either that or we need to restart reconstruction today with absolute brutality.
Before they committed treason against the US alone, this time they allied with Russia to bring us down.
Isn't a ton of the current Trump administration rot coming from Silicon Valley?
Isn't Silicon Valley in California?
The South was under the Reconstruction plan, complete with Marshall Law and Freedman's Bureaus and all sorts of additional federal oversight, untilThe Compromise of 1877 gave Rutherford B. Hayes the presidency at the cost of his soul.
Lincoln didn't simply readmit the South. He readmitted 9 million enslaved Americans as proper first class citizens. And the initial wave of democratization gave birth to a brief but generally optimistic egalitarian glimpse of a potential future.
Lincoln's big mistake was not putting Smedly Butler into his VP seat. Letting the country revert to Andrew Johnson was the big blunder. One that Grant had to spend two terms mopping up.
But that's all distant history. The modern fascist presidency is born out of Manhattan Island. The modern Texas/Florida/Ohio Axis of Evil is a product of Yale Business School. Stanford Alumni are fucking us up far more today than some Daughters of the Confederacy could have dreamed.
This isn't a North/South problem. It's a turf war between extractive industry and the professional class.
Yeah, because if there's two things we know silicon valley loves it's the core issues of the Trump administrafion:
Immigration restrictions
Tariffs
He was voted in purely about the south, who are not only fascists to the core (if what they consider to be Christo-fascists).
The thing is: their religion, the southern Baptist church, was founded because they wanted a religion whose core dogma was that slavery was a commandment from God. Hence their basing the Sbc around the curse of Ham justifying slavery. The nazis themselves based the Nuremberg Laws off Jim crow, only without the 1 drop rule.
This is 100% the south, the restriction of women's rights, the anti-lgbt, racism, isolation ism.
They've been sold that Russia is their best ally because it is the last True (read: white) Christian Nation fighting against the atheist and Muslim hordes who have infested Europe.
Silicon valley doesn't want any of this bullshit, they just want less regulation. This has been a nightmare for them, Europe is starting their own competitors and regulating the cloud providers.
Silicon valley is smart, this whole thing has the backwards inbred balls-over-brains energy of the south.
Show me one Manhattan anyone who thinks those tariffs are a good idea.
Super popular in the south though, finally those rich northerners will have to pay them to do the work, instead of buying stuff from the dirty Mexicans.
Go pick up a copy of The Network State
Are you fucking insane?
The ceos of most tech companies are Asian!
Google, Microsoft, Nvidia.
trump is literally an immigrant, so.
As is musk, and he stood up against the h1b thing pretty hard for 5 minutes.
They don't want to lose their slaves.
*Benjamin Butler
Ack, excuse me
It's cool, I love Smedley as well, greatest Marine ever.
I dont think the lines are the same anymore. Social media and 24/7 news has given people in plenty of northern regions the same viewpoints. A civil war would not be north vs. south. it would be neighbor vs neighbor
I always hear this.
I am brown and grew up in the Midwest.
Then my family moved to the south.
This is like comparing Canadians who care about hockey with the Khmer Rouge exterminating much of their population.
The south is just infinitely worse in literally every way.
there are a lot of nice people in the south. there are a lot of brown people in the south. you think everyone needs to suffer brutality for what the worst do?
It seems to be the norm that the many suffer for the actions of the few.
we can attack and punish each other as the few would like or work together. that requires us to acknowledge common humanity and rally together for our shared well-being.
You're asking us to nourish monsters who have only ever shown brutal violent hate.
Go find a wild tiger and try to win them over with kindness and nurturing, see how well that works.
I'm sure a lot of people thought they could win the nazis over with kindness. Sure a lot of slaves hoped letting the rapes happen would somehow make them stop.
Some people just have darkness in their hearts, and society must be protected from them for everyone's sake.
In the Midwest there are bad people too.
The difference?
In the Midwest when a racist is being a racist, people say shit, they stand up to them!
In the south the bystanders just laugh, at worst they laugh nervously.
Which is why it's a vile and corrupt society.
Police yourself, or don't be surprised to be judged as evil.
there are bad and good people everywhere. i do not endorse painting millions as deserving suffering; there's plenty of that already.
ordinary americans can find their way out of this mess together or tear each other apart. which do you imagine suits those in power?
you are no longer here. stop trying to sow further hatred and division. i don't want my children, my friends, my colleagues, my clients to suffer because they live on the wrong side of an arbitrary line.
BTW... The fact that you make it clear you don't want to be caught up in this makes one thing ckear:
You know they are evil and violent, and you are terrified to face them because of this.
This is what neutral Germans must have felt as they watched jews get rounded up in camps.
You don't understand that dealing with the monsters yourself is actually the better choice for everyone.
I'm sure there were a lot of poor Germans who didn't deserve what they got.
But it doesn't matter, that's how it goes, if you can't stop your neighbors from doing evil you suffer for that evil.
A table with 4 people where one is a nazi is a table with 4 nazis.
Your people are still trying to hurt everyone, and you're not stopping them.
I fully expect to put a lot of effort to hurt your people in the near future in self-defense, because their history of monstrous evil and cruelty speaks for itself.
I'm no longer there because I had to escape the south, and I thank God every day that I could.
Then the filth chased me to the coasts and I had to escape to Europe.
I can't escape earth. This far, no farther.
in the midwest, it's political brainrot, not racism or things like that.
I agree.
But that's vastly better.
The deep, DEEP seated racial hatred of the south is a terrifying thing and is something that has lasted literal centuries, they switched parties over that.
The Midwest at least has some hope.
Reminds me of east and west germany, even still today, one side is poorer than the other, which fostered new radicalism.
And also where i live, Quebec, poorer rural regions control the elections.
Exactly, the difference is in east Germany after the war they mostly dealt with the nazis.
In the south they gave them a timeout for 10 years then let them take power again.
Lol no they didn't deal with the nazis in East Germany. They were pretty quickly persecuted if they came out, but as long as they stayed quiet and clamied they wanted socialism, nothing happened to them.
And then after the fall of the east block, all of the nazis in eastern Germany no longer had to be quiet and there were also many nazis from the west who helped spread it even further while there was a power vacuum and nothing was done against it.
Well they were quiet for a while.
Damn, they're coming back? And of course with Russian funding.
And so it moves closer to the handmaids tale every day
I lived in the south, if they could read they'd consider it a fantasy utopia.
I don't get why Oregon and Washington haven't jumped on that bandwagon. Imagine the entire west coast working together. All Western seaports.
There is a Cascadia Independence movement but it's not widely talked about.
It's fairly widely known along the west coast. No one treats it like a serious movement, but like a "man, that would be nice" kind of thing.
It's also fairly right wing, last I looked into it.
That's the State of Jefferson movement, most likely. Cascadia is about the coastal regions, State of Jefferson is about the inland (right-wing) regions of Washington, Oregon, and Norcal.
The two heads representing the east and west coasts, obviously (please let us join you, California, when you go).
If Trump thinks he's above the Constitution why can't a state?
No, there is legal precedence for this
Under NAFTA states could impose their own tariffs because NAFTA was a Federal agreement and countries would have to negotiate free trade with individual states
This is just the reverse of that
As a non-American, the more i learn about US states, the more I realise that the country is more like a reluctant confederation than an actual unified country.
Yeah, it made sense when a horse was the fastest way to travel over land. These days? We're stuck with a ridiculous government structure designed when no one knew how democracies worked.
Amen to that. It's very stupid and backwards, but a whole lotta idiots think that the founders were inspired by their god (Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah) and that this kind of thing was handed down on stone tablets.
It tore itself apart in a civil war 72 years after its constitution was written, and the only reason why it didn't happen again was because it got fat off of being the only power left standing after the world wars.
Also the economic restructuring by both President Roosevelt's. I suspect the US would've collapsed by the 50s without either of them.
Well it won't be after the next one!
It’s very much like the EU and always has been. Everything makes a lot more sense in that POV.
It is starting to make sense alright. I remember someone telling me that Americans put too much focus on federal politics, even though what goes on in Washington does not necessarily affect them. And the news of American states "Trump-proofing" themselves is also starting to make more sense. This also explains why voter turnout for presidential elections is quite low compared to other democracies, because eligible voters feel they won't be affected as much.
The US is the Austria-Hungary of our time.
The whole "no legal precedence". Has been a thing for a few years now. We have what used to be called chaos nowadays.
Good. There is no point in being part of a government that doesn't believe in governance. Here's hoping that other Blue States join a compact with California.
Trump has been withholding fema money allocated to California. They are stealing disaster funds. He also wasted billions of gallons of water during the la , for a headline, pretending that he did something. Wasting that water when we have a wet/dry season is detrimental for farming. Destroying food supply/ water supply In reality that’s attrition and is an act of war, he is attacking Californians extra hard, but he also attacking all Americans.
Why does the bear have two heads?
That flag comes from a videogame series, called Fallout. The premise is that America or China began a nuclear war, with horrific results for the world as a whole. At least a couple hundred years later, the player is released from the confines of a fallout shelter. These vaults housed the remnants of humanity as we knew them, and they are now emerging to recolonize the earth.
Thing is, some critters had children, despite the excessive radiation. New California's national animal, the bear, tends to have an extra pair of heads.
If the premise of the series interests you, I recommend New Vegas as your starting point. It has the most narrative strength in the series and is user friendly in comparison to the original games. Fallout 4 is approachable, but lost writing and player choice, unfortunately.
Fallout trailers, all of them.
I'm familiar with fallout, just haven't played one. Tried, just couldn't get into it.
Actually no Yao Guai in game have two heads. Though it should be noted the only Yao Guai you run into when playing are balck bears, so possibly grizzly bears as depicted on the flag do get two heads.
I’m in a blue state, and I say, kick all the MAGA out first. Forget em!
You're implying the constitution has any weight right now (it doesn't)
I'd say fuckin do it
It depends on who's breaking the law/constitution.
At this point it's hardly the law and the constitution. These are just unpredictable whims of the people in power.
And it's the same for the European union. European states can't get trade agreements by themselves. So when you read "Italy is ready to talk with trump" is just sucking dick
Merkel had to explain that to Trump 11 times last time he was president. I bet he forgot it again.
Not really a matter of forgetting. Trump was a leading advocate for Brexit. He wants to see the EU dissolved.
Putin does anyway and thus so does Trump
More than those two, by a long shot. The AfD, the Le Penns, Reform UK, the list goes on.
California produces 10% of American agricultural needs. If they secede it would be way worse on the economy than these tariffs.
well no, the US would still be 60-70% of the total US economy without them lmao.
an economy of whatever it currently does? I think you literally said it yourself, the handful of states are 30% the economy of the US total, the rest is still a thing, it's not going to disappear lmao. Idk how hard this is to understand.
The US primarily exports high value goods and services, tech for example, not food.
depending on which produce item its significantly higher
I'm genuinely curious on how realistic this is... I can't imagine it's a simple process, but like what would need to happen for California to become it's own country?
To do so legally, Constitutional Convention. 2/3 of states would have to agree to let it go. And everyone would have to hammer out what happens to federal assets inside the state.
There is basically zero chance they successfully secede. There is however a slightly above zero chance they seriously try.
California trying to secede would be stupid enough to make Trump look like a top mensa candidate.
the same thing for texas to become it's own country, that said, it's not happening.
At the moment, California is taking signatures for studying a "CALexit" plan. It is about 500,000 signatures by July for a successful petition. After that, California starts to study the costs, opportunities, logistics, and other aspects of leaving the union.
The best I could tell from the article was that all he was doing was essentially lobbying foriegn countries to tailor their responses so that they hurt california less than other states. I can't see any law blocking that. From what I could tell he wasn't even offering anything real in exchange.
Texas couldn't secede, probably because it's a red state..how amazing would it be if California became it's own country with actual progressive laws. I for one would allow it. Let them become Canada, Mexico or even it's own. Do it Cali!
Let's do it.
It would be ironic if businesses come back to California because of the tariffs.
Thank goodness now we are talking. Time for California to move past the Orange Turd.
Turd gonna clamp down on California. He's got to. Otherwise he loses grip.
Other states should join in. It's going to be rough no matter how you slice it, but I'd rather the states take the fight to him and the feds. Start controlling the narrative and take it away from the idiots.
What's really to keep states with ports from just taking over Customs, especially with doge firing and closing federal agencies? If the states control their ports they control what gets tagged for tariffs, or am I wrong?
No question.
The tighter his grip the more states that will slip through his tiny fingers.
As i read this, i am remembered of Newsom meeting Trump, after he refused to help with Californian wildfires.
Why they all leaning forward except Newsom? lol
People misinterpret this image. Newsom isn't point at Trump, he's keeping the stack of people from falling over.
Fake news. Some journo hack used photoshop. Here's the original, with Trup standing true and strong despite them all being on a hillside.
Skills mate, you got them. Nice one.
Cheers, fella! I'm AI^1^, me!
[1. AI: a two-letter abbreviation which commonly refers to Artificial Intelligence but which can also, although far less often, refer to Abject Imbecile.]
Newsom’s gravity powers are pulling them in. They can’t help it
Smooth criminals?
Smoothbrain criminals. "America has been hit by..struck by a smoothbrain criminal!"
[Chorus]
America, are you okay? (I don't know)
Will you tell us that you're okay? (I don't know)
There's a felon at the window (I don't know)
Then Trump struck you, a crescendo America? (I don't know)
Trump came onto your apartment (I don't know)
Left white stains on the carpet (I don't know why, baby)
And then she ran into the bedroom (Help me)
She were struck down
It was your doom America (Dag gone it)
They're clearly exiting the plane and trying to keep the line moving.
Why does that look like a photo of a bunch of Nazis?
Newsweek is pretty close to a tabloid these days. They are a tad better than the NY Post, but not by much.
Hope this falls through. Any trade deals that allow the US to circumvent Trumps policies and thus keep his regime going is bad. The big crash needs to happen before people are motivated to fight back. The slow frog boil is what led us here to begin with.
if all the states did this his regime would be the size of the white house.
Would be fun to watch companies from other states bypass the tariffs by buying California products.
Then of course, Trump will propose tariffs on a State.
It would be hilarious if only red states had tariffs with the rest of the world.
Kudos to California. The neo-Nazi filled MAGA is all about state rights and I hope they tell California to secede.
I hope California succeeds at seceding
Secede and then we can trade :)
If they secede you will definitely not be trading with either half for a long time.
Better than the current situation honestly. Both being preoccupied is better than Trump’s admirations of Canadian minerals
I honestly think you're soapboxing for clout.
It's good that everyone is weaning themselves off American products, but you're fooling yourself if you really think America having a civil war won't make your life as a Canadian objectively worse.
I'm of the opinion that despite America not learning from fascism's rise to power, most of the rest of the world did, and will back each other up much better than they did 100 years ago. In other words, we're never annexing Canada or your minerals, we're merely making life hell for ourselves (and anyone else who depends on our economy). Imagine the Third Reich except no invasions, just an internal Holocaust. I think that's the worse case scenario. Canada isn't invading to save our minorities, same as nobody invaded Germany to save theirs.
Maybe I’m being a bit dramatic, yeah, but we’re living in really dramatic times.
I mean, a lot of people didn’t expect Trump to tear down the American government within months of getting into power either. With Trump stating that he wants to annex Canada “through economic means” and then immediately attacking us with ridiculous tariffs, it seems like he’s following through on that. I don’t think he’ll hurt us as bad economically as he’s hoping though, so I don’t think him declaring actual war on us out of the picture. It honestly seems like he’s already trying to warm his base up to the idea with us being “a national security threat” and “overrun by cartels”.
Idk, just try to picture the POTUS repeatedly saying he’s going to annex your home for months on end, and then try not to get a little bit on edge.
Edit:
Yeah I admit you’re most definitely right about this. It really wouldn’t be a good time
Not if you get all the nuclear fallout.
I think I’d rather be nuked than be lead by the orange man ngl
I doubt that's true
I don’t know if you understand the pettiness and absolute disdain of the idea of being American that Canadians have. I live in Ottawa so I would be in the city that gets nuked if it came to that
Ok
Maybe Cali could make an agreement to join Canada or EU.
How would a state secede from the US? Like, what’s the actual process?
It sounds like he wants foreign countries to do California a favor without getting anything in exchange (and even that might be unconstitutional). Or is there something that he has the authority to offer in exchange which I'm missing?
CA sales tax averages 10%. While it's nowhere on the scale of the tariffs, it could offset the impact significantly if reduced or eliminated for goods coming from specific countries.
Additionally, the government of CA has enormous purchasing power. Directing where that money goes could serve to be a powerful tool in mitigating the trade war.
Plus, one element that most folks don't think about is the financial weight of the CalPERS retirement fund. This organization controls a huge amount of investment money subject to state regulations as to where its invested. Opening up that revenue stream to select foreign companies could be a mighty tasty carrot.
Not disputing most of you point, but the sales tax in California does not average 10%. I live here, and don’t think I’ve ever paid more that 9. Most of the time, it’s lower than 8.
It widely varies by county.
And by city. Ya, there are some cities where it’s over 10. I’m just saying that’s not nearly the average.
Trump has got another great idea. A tax of 1.5 million dollars for each ship made in China that will dock at any American port, or 1 million if the ship is not made in china but the shipper fleet has a majority of Chinese ships.
So, off before they did like California, Panama, Louisiana, new York, those stops will increase the price of shipping by 4.5 million dollars.
Trump thinks that in this way, in a couple weeks, shipyards will reopen in the states and everyone will buy American ships. Because it takes a couple days to build an oil tanker
Result:
They'll just unload the goods in Canada or Mexico then use trains/trucks. For oil and coal and wheat and other stuff that can't be easily transported by land without ax existing infrastructure, that's an additional 20% cost on top of tariffs. Inflation go go go
Yeah Trump wants the US to be a great shipbuilder again... but for that you need materials (steel), workers who want to do that sort of job( he's deporting a lot of people) and skill to manufacture ships...
He thinks by taxing countries or companies, they will go to the US, but they won't, and if they do it takes time and a lot of investment..
Glad to hear, im Canadian and i have no problem buying American products from certain states.
38.3% of voters.
Not 38.3% of the population.
Pretty significant difference.
Thats way less than most places in the US and less than fucking doug ford got in ontario. Less than Pierre was polling canada wide too. So yeah, I'd rather trade with them than say fucking alberta which is also way higher conservative poll numbers.
If you prefer to trade with California rather than Alberta, you basically have a brain maga.
In what way? Alberta is politcally basically the polar opposite to my beliefs, and is holding the entire country back. California is still not nearly left enough for my tastes, but aside from some outlying rural areas generally is much more favorable to my political views. With the exception of trade barriers and the fact that money going to california still impacts the US GDP, generally speaking Id rather give my money to people with similar beliefs as myself, especily if those people are trying to take a stand against trump/other fascist politicians and not licking their boots and huffing oil fumes like danielle smith.
Either you're on Canada's side or on Trump's side. By trading with Alberta, you support Canada. By trading with California, you support Trump. Oh, and by the way, it's pretty infuriating that you consider Alberta to be politically homogeneous. It's even more infuriating that you think we like Trump in Alberta. Maybe talk to real Albertans instead of watching murican-paid clowns pretend to be Albertans.
Which is not a majority, there's more blue voters in Texas than Republicans in California.
I don't think OP cares about it being a majority or not. 38% voters is too many for their liking. And honestly, you can't blame 'em.
We did fix our shit, the shit we can't fix is the south, nobody can, they are a shame on the country.
I don't understand why the north won and still allowed the Confederate flag, war criminals to be heroes name bases after war criminals. It boogles my mind and is probably one of the reasons America is where it is. The north never actually won just dominated for awhile.
It is because we generally don't obsess about the south like they obsess about themselves and the north.
We have shit to do.
Like an unemployed drunk staying at home, screaming at the TV and beating his wife because their life didn't turn out well.
While we have reasons not to be so trash.
Every place in the world has douchebags in it. I'm sure that the share of douchebags even among California voters is actually much larger than 38.3%, once you figure in the assholes who voted for someone else beside Trump (not to mention the people who didn't vote at all). And you guys have your own Trump, Poilievre. Every country has assholes. Don't forget that.
cExit?
EU is already trying to specifically target products from red states with tariffs.
That's not going to work in practice. The US economy is even more tangled under the hood than it is internationally.
Might as well say you're taking a called shot on someone's left ventrical, because you don't want to hurt any other part of their body.
I'd prefer that they at least try to target them
Source? (No doubt, just looking forward tobreading more)
Not sure what media you prefer, find a nice article here: https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=eu+targetting+red+states
I think that's the nicest "LMGTFY" kind of response I've seen. Kudos to you, my friend.
Anyone speaking of secession - please, read history. We do not want to do that again, I don’t care what you believe in, it is a terrible idea. Please think it through beyond how admittedly awesome it would be in theory alone.
Holy shit, my prediction model forecast this. 🍿 This is actually a major step toward derailing this coup.
Or starting a civil war.
If it ends with us cutting Trumpistan/the Neo-Confederacy off, I'm good. Just hope we have enough time to get decent people out of the Neo-Confederacy.
lol i'm considering a move to Tijuana so i can commute to San Diego.. if California can nix the chicken tax then i'm moving.
wanna join EU? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Already looking into it...
Oh shit can they do that?
Why not? If the last couple of months have proven anything, it's that our entire system is a paper tiger.
I don't think so.
Politics can sort of be like playing a cross between chess and chicken. Strategic moves to see who blinks first. It's a constitutional challenge that will need to be addressed by the federal government, taking their time and resources from their own unconstitutional efforts.
Or not. I'm just an Internet person who as far as anyone knows has zero expertise in these sorts of things.
California ! Uber Alles !
Unironically ? I’m so confused
Fun fact Deutschland Uber Alles was originally a call for German unification during the early 1800s and was originally a German republican rallying cry.
It’s a Dead Kennedys song reference that ironically did the German thing because of the governors (at the time) presidential goals and associated policies
Now it’s still relevant but
I kinda like it ?
I’m confused
Have never listened to the dead Kennedys so I kinda couldn't get the reference so thanks for the context.
Edit: Who the fuck downvoted me? Why the fuck did ya downvoted me? Im 25 sorry I don't listen to the dead Kennedys I guess?
Funnily enough, there's actually hostoric precedent for trying. Emphasis on trying.
Fuck companies who do that. United they shall fall.
Why would they do that? They gain nothing from that.
Gain nothing? They pay more in federal taxes than they recieve. They'd probably be better off
And they would have to turn around and spend it on their own military because they would lose the military that all 50 states funded together. I never used to be believe in the threat of eastern aggression, but it becomes more and more obvious every day that they can never see the USA bleed. And that's in the assumption the hyper-aggressive Trump admin does nothing about a secession.
Plus, they've already got more than enough justification to withhold federal income taxes and tariffs, the sitting president is violating the constitution and wasn't even eligible to run in the first place.
Instead of carving ourselves up and removing blue seats from congress we could be uniting against Trump.
As much as I hate Newsom and the democrats, secession from a lunatic presidency that is ready to tank the global market for the interest of the rich elite would be a big step forward for Americans. Trump wants big government. He wants the entire country to adhere to the right wing populists and ultra rich. Yea no I’d say the Californians gain a fuck ton from leaving all that.
What Trump is doing is illegal, there is plenty of justification for California to simply respond by doing equally illegal things like denying the feds and withholding taxes.
Removing Cali congressmen is the opposite of opposing his admin.
Im not an American but can they actually do this legally?
I mean, I guess we'll find out together
Legally? No. But you can’t secede legally either so there is a fuzzy line there somewhere should they start down that road.
Depends on how legally you need it. They also have marijuana by way of nonenforcement.
Succession! And we’re taking Hawaii Oregon and Washington. We can trade with the EU and Canada. Maybe we can join the EU
If we’re fixing America’s beshittlements, can we restore the Hawaiian monarchy?
Yeah that seems fair. Can you guys take care of zuck and Ellison? …..I’m thinking sewer slaves would be best after seizing their assets of course
gonna solve world hunger by empowering billionaires to eat the peanuts outta my shit
What's the point of fixing any monarchy?
It's too bad Utah and Nevada are between Colorado and California...
But the tariffs are paid by American. It is tax on Americans. Why would foreign country care too much other than the price of their goods are a little higher for americans.
People will have to still buy essential products anyway or suffer clogged drains or sit on the floor without chairs or eat with hands without utensils.
In fact, I raised prices on my digital goods a while back due to trump threats of tariffs on Canada Mexico. i raised prices only on US platforms for my digital products. People are still buying.
They care because their economies rely on people buying the products. The reasons why tariffs hurt both sides is because the movement of products decays. That’s the whole idea, so that the products’ supply source changes.
Cool but Americans should cool down their consumerism anyways.They consume the vast majority of stuff which is why everyone wants into the market.
I actually agree, and therefore think tariffs can be, if thoughtful and executed well, good for a country’s self-reliance and defense (cake). What it generally can’t be is good for the economy (eating it too).
There are a lot of complicated reasons why high tariff are a global problem in a global economy, but simply put:
Reduced profit for a single company or industry isn’t usually detrimental to a national or global economy. But when an entire country’s economy is hit with reduced profits across every industry, then it creates a problem.
So in summary, Americans are going to get fucked directly, “foreign countries” are going to get fucked indirectly.
And the only people who win are the billionaires that get to swoop in and buy everything up at bargain basement prices.
I am not affected by tariffs, but I am going to further raise the prices of my digital goods on US platforms anyway. Because i noticed people buy anyway when i raised prices earlier this year.
my impact is extremely tiny, but if everyone does it, especially for essential products sold to US. This might help a nation as a whole compensate for loss of revenue in other industries affected by tariffs.
Most people in US will think the higher prices for everything are due to tariffs.
Edit : Note that my prices on platform based outside of US are kept much lower, Americans do buy from there. It is only on US site that I raise prices.
Eh, what do you sell and on which platform? I'd like to avoid you, firstly, and secondly, knowing that will give me an idea of what to tell you to expect.
I'm buying less these days. Going on less vacations. Picking up fewer wants, and limiting my purchases to needs. Reducing the amount of money I spend. I am seeing it as more money is going into savings now than when Biden was POTUS. Gonna need to do that because everything's about to get more expensive. I need to get used to doing more with less, because otherwise, I'm going to take it right in the chin. As will many of my American counterparts.
You might escape scott free. Or you might not. Your country likely is tariffing everything from the USA, and the USA is likely tariffing you as well. You might find fewer people buy your stuff because not ONLY has the US tariffed money out of your buyers, you're exploiting them as well, meaning they get double hit. While it's your right to set your price to what you want, don't be surprised if your sales take a hit. Also, it's a very douchebag move to take advantages of your customers...just like what the Shitgibbon would do, so I do hope your customers look elsewhere for their sales. Too bad we as Americans don't have that luxury to avoid tariffs.
Even if I sell less it doesn't matter, the higher prices makes up for it. I don't need to sell much at higher price. People buy my stuff usually to save time, they are trying to meet project deadlines. As long as it is cheaper to buy instead of building it themselves which might take days, weeks they are still saving time and money.
Note that I raise prices on US platform only. My prices on site based in Europe (Lithuania) is much lower (American can buy from there if they bother to search, I do see US customers IPs on my sale stats), If you really want to talk about greed and douchebag-ness it is the US platforms that are super greedy they are taking more than 60% from each of my sales. While the Europe platform only take 30%. So I could care less if I lose sale on the US sites, I prefer if my customer buy from europe site instead.
It seems countries getting hit by tariffs don't tariff US goods as high as trump is claiming, https://www.threads.net/@aaliamauro/post/DICFOusPqD1
US doesn't even export enough goods to some of those countries to hit tariff triggers. So most item remain tariff free. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/02/politics/fact-check-trump-tariffs-trade/index.html
The tariffs broken down by internet level domain makes no sense, It looks very unscientific and lazy.
I see you avoided answering my question, so it's a lot harder to give you hard facts, but let's look at a hypothetical purchase in Lithuania.
First, you don't seem to understand how tariffs work. We don't pay tariffs on exports. We pay it on imports. Let's say you sell a widget from your page for $10. To get it into the USA, I'd have to pay you $10, and Uncle Sam $2. Doesn't matter how much you sell or don't sell. The shitgibbon has demanded his 20%, and so if I were to buy something from you, I'd have to give $0.20 for every $1.00 I give you.
But that's just the start of the hurt. European Union countries are likely to tariff us back. So if you order your raw materials from the USA, your own country is gonna be standing there with its hand out. That 4.56 EUR you were going to pay a US company also has a 0.91 EUR extra charge added to it by your country. So you raise from $10.00 to $11.00 to make up that extra 0.91 EUR...which then means I have to pay $2.20 to the Shitgibbon, pushing my price up to $13.20 US, JUST so you can still make your profit target.
Some countries are mulling export taxes as well. Ontario, for example, is putting a 25% export tariff on electricity shipped to the northern US. If Lithuania decides that widgets need a 20% export tariff, now, suddenly, your 10.04 EUR item now has Lithuania holding its hand out looking for 2.00 EUR. You're not gonna want to eat that, so your price needs to increase so you get the same profit as before. Let's say...13 EUR to make up the tariff margin (you end up giving 2.60 EUR to Lithuania, and are still giving 5.47 EUR to your supplier, leaving you with 4.93 left over), and now I'm paying $14.21 plus $2.84, for a total of 17.05. And this is all before you start talking about charging me even more.
Digital products may currently escape this, so if you're offering software or PDFs or NFTs or whatnot, you might indeed be not worried about the immediate nonsense going down.
I have no problem with you if you're raising your prices on platforms that take a bigger cut of your sales. I'd suggest you shop around for better platforms, and nothing says you have to use US platforms. I'd support you on an EU platform if that meant I paid less and you got paid more. It just seemed you were saying you were going to target Americans more just 'cause. We didn't all vote for the Shitgibbon over here.
As for your last three paragraphs? Yeah. "Preaching to the Choir" is what I'd tell you on that. Yes, the tariffs are stupid. And Trump is golfing while the economy burns.
You only asked a 2 part single question to find out which platform to avoid, you obviously know it would not be answered. I need you to pay the higher prices, not avoid the platform. Since you want to **avoid **the platform I **avoid **telling you, we both avoid so it is fair.
Your explanation shows that you finally understand tariffs.
Yes it is all about **upsizing **the impact on US and reducing impact elsewhere. Voting for tariffs clearly shows that majority of US citizen and government loves to pay more tax for foreign and local goods.
You are right digital product/services escaped this for now, this means they might be affected in the future so based on your good advice I would have to raise prices for US so as to build up the buffer to weather the potential tariffs on digital goods/services.
To help the non-US people, penguins and seals, I give discount vouchers to non US customers to help them further reduce cost outside US.
I don't need to shop around, I have mentioned my products are on other platforms.
I would still put my product on that US platform and others, for the advertisement and to pull non-us customer away from them to a better deals elsewhere but some users are willing to pay the higher prices so let them pay. willing buyer willing seller. it is not going to bankrupt anyone don't worry. Note, I am also raising rates for US clients for digital services too not just products. Need to build the buffer.
No politician in California is going to criticize the lack proper vote counting techniques in the USA states that caused this harm. This is because Californian leadership is in thrall to the oligarchs.
Also the man saying this is not the type of person to get out of the safe zone.
I’m not quite sure why people are thinking anything significant can or will happen. The United States cannot change at all
Good point, better to try nothing and give up.
My point was that the current leaders can only do nothing. I’m in Texas, so there.
This is literally the way the US doss change.