I hate people who only release their App on flatpak
For context: I habe a PC with an 8gb SSD and I somehow need to get an app on there that only has a flatpak release
474
Comments200View original on lemmy.ml
For context: I habe a PC with an 8gb SSD and I somehow need to get an app on there that only has a flatpak release
Flatpak seems to be the best choice for consistency and to have it working straight out of the box. I think Linux currently needs this because we're getting a lot less tech-savvy Linux users nowadays. Don't get me wrong; package managers should still be used, but how are we going to get people to change if they run into package conflicts or accidentally uninstall a wrong package?
And universal compatability. One repo, for all distros. That's a big plus too!
Until it doesn't work. There's a lot of subtlety, and at some point you'll have to match what the OS provide. Even containers are not "run absolutely anywhere" but "run mostly anywhere".
That doesn't change the point, of course; software that are dependent on the actual kernel/low level library to provide something will be hard to get working in unexpected situations anyway, but the "silver bullet" argument irks me.
Everything is flawed, there is no silver bullet. But again, it's still a massive improvement over what we had previously.
That's called having just one distro.
Great... Now, you just need to convince the big distros to do that... Easy!!!!111
Well, that's the neat part. We don't need to do that because what Flatpak does, doesn't matter for them. People can just install Flatpak in their system and they have access to everything. I realise for system components it's a different story, but that's not the use case, it's for applications.
Edit: typo.
Thats... the point of flatpak.
It is also nice to have independent packages. Consistent user experience means a lot.
It's useful, but it isn't the best option for everyone, so other options should be available.
Why would you want the app devs to make that? The whole problem with distro-specific packages is having to package for multiple formats and it's a painstaking process that really isn't worth any amount of time investment at all. If you're an app developer, you'd much rather just make a universal package and hope that some distro package maintainer packages your app for their distro. That's just basic common sense...
Because Flatpaks can't share libraries or anything. It creates a lot of bloat that doesn't need to be there. It's great for users that want to make sure the app will always work, but it isn't great for being efficient.
This is just a straight up lie. Flatpaks do share libraries, both as runtimes (as seen even in the screenshot here) and through deduplication between different runtimes and runtime versions. There's usually very little bloat, if any, especially if you use Flatpaks a lot, which you probably should, given the huge number of advantages especially with proprietary apps.
~20 different GUI applications, flatpak ended up using 14 GiB of storage while the appimage equivalent used 3.2 GIB.
And note I was not able to find flatpaks for ghostty, goverlay, kdeconnect and a few other apps, meaning the actual bloat of flatpak is even higher.
Edit: And this is even worse if you are an nvidia user, flatpak will download the entire nvidia driver as well.
AppImage isn't a good comparison for a lot of different reasons and I think enough people have summarised that on the internet by now.
Alright what does flatpak offer in this case?
Has performance issues 1
The thing is not XDG Base dir compliant 1 2
Has security issues even 1 2 3 and not to mention the whole bunch of flatpaks that use EOL runtimes which are even worse, not only for security, but also because that single flatpak ends up pulling an entire runtime for itself which makes even more bloated.
And is insanely bloated as you saw already.
Such as? but I likely know already what is going to be said, hopefully is none of the following:
"Depends on libfuse2" (not true since 2022 with the static appimage runtime, this also allows making appimages that work on musl systems, which several like ghostty, goverlay, Steam, gimp, cromite, citron already do)
"You need to build on an old distro and it is hard", once again not true anymore since you can now bundle the glibc as well (and it is needed for appimages to work on musl systems).
"No wayland", this is only true if you use linuxdeploy-qt to make the AppImage, the project has been abandoned already for several years and the only project I know that still uses it is qbittorrent-enhanced.
EDIT: And also hopefully you are aware that a lot of flatpaks are literary an AppImage shipped in a flatpak runtime, like:
https://github.com/flathub/dev.vencord.Vesktop/blob/master/dev.vencord.Vesktop.yml#L34-L46
https://github.com/flathub/com.ultimaker.cura/blob/master/com.ultimaker.cura.yml#L24-L44
https://github.com/flathub/xyz.armcord.ArmCord/blob/master/xyz.armcord.ArmCord.yml#L40-L43
https://github.com/flathub/com.heroicgameslauncher.hgl/blob/master/com.heroicgameslauncher.hgl.yml#L191-L196
https://github.com/flathub/chat.simplex.simplex/blob/master/chat.simplex.simplex.yml#L22-L31
https://github.com/flathub/menu.kando.Kando/blob/master/menu.kando.Kando.yml#L33-L40
So yeah AppImage isn't ideal, lets ship it in a container anyway 😁
I just what to install an app. I don't want to spend an evening figgering out how to get a PWA to install. I don't want to consult a form or your git repository to install some package I will use once and will be patched out in the next version.
Personally I do like the ideas behind Snap/Flatpak. I think the sandboxing is a huge deal and will improve security going forward.
In a world where space is usually the cheapest and most available hardware on a PC, I tend to agree. That being said, it's the kind of solution that comes from engineers who put the onus on the hardware to make up for their shitty software. Engineers like me.
Yeah. Someone has to put in the work for packaging an application if you want it as a .deb/.rpm etc. package and deal with any bugs that might come up, and it's not going to be me (speaking as a user, not a developer).
That said, I also painted myself into a corner when it comes to harddrive space. LUKS can be complicated, man ...
I read this in the movie trailer guy's voice
You hate people who spend hundreds of ours of their free time developing software, who then release that software for free, under no obligation to you or anyone else, and your reasoning is because they provide it in a packaging solution you don't find ideal?
Maybe fuck off and write your own software.
No, they hate flatpak, one of the many option to distribute software, which is not the only one even if you consider the "must run on many distro" restriction (which isn't 100% true, kinda like the Java write once run anywhere). There are other options, some more involved, some simpler, to do so.
They didn't say they hate devs, that's on you, grabbing a febble occasion to tell someone that voiced his opinion to "fuck off".
You could just read what OP said
You could improve your reading comprehension.
Take your own advice
Then they should say they hate flatpak, or they are frustrated/disappointed when something they are interested in is only on flatpak.
Instead of doing that, they said they hate people who only use flatpak. Words matter, and that kind of entitlement needs to be shut down. The devs don't owe them anything and they certainly don't deserve hatred for their packaging solution. There are many constructive ways OP could resolve the issue. Open a feature request issue on the bug tracker, build it locally, send an email, offer to maintain another packaging method, etc.
There’s your problem. The last time 8GB was plenty was in 1998.
Yup. Those 64 GB SSDs many retailers put into cheap laptops already come dangerously close to violating the Geneva Convention. 8GB is just stupid, even for a Linux system.
If I ever have to use a laptop with 64GB of space, I'm following the Geneva Checklist :3
Even cheap SD cards are larger these days. The smallest SSD you can buy in the UK right now is 250GB.
Amazon sells 24 GB ones..
Oh really? Wow! Still 3x more than 8GB though :)
Yeah, TinyCore Linux needs 16GB I think. 8GB you might run BusyBox or something
No need to hate on someone for their hardware.
Reading through the comments here, the Linux community slowly seems move away from "runs on about every piece of hardware you can think of" to "if you don't have at least the Nimbus 2000 that's on you, sucker!"
don't wanna be mean to any demographic but it's literally the windows gamer converts. Not all of them though. At the same time that kills the other linux elites of "you don't compile gentoo from scratch on every system?" so..
Gotta run FFMMLXIV at 94fps and 173hz @3890x2669 resolution otherwise you're betraying the "Linux is the best gaming OS" movement we've all sworn fealty to.
Are they booting of an SD card? Mabey is a Pi or WiFi router?
Oh lmao, I decided to look into this. https://github.com/flathub/com.ktechpit.torrhunt/blob/master/com.ktechpit.torrhunt.yaml
Looks like it just downloads the .snap package (directly from Canonical's website) and extracts it. It's also, of course, completely closed source so who knows what it's doing when it's running.
Ah, yes. The Pinnacle of security
oh wow that's way worse than the crappy one he said in his actual post.. He said a totally different software. He's trying to run several things on this machine lol
Compile it yourself?
Compile it yourself.
Instructions unclear. Cmake ninja tool chain uses another 8gb and still get compile errors
Use the flatpak and see if you like it, then compile it yourself.
...or just use the flatpak
did you see those little
<in front of the download sizes?org.kde.KStyle.Adwaita,org.kdePlatform.Locale,org.kde.Platformandcom.ktechpit.torrhuntwon't be fully downloaded as those are possibly already installed and can be reused, so in the best case you only downloadorg.freedesktop.Platform.GL.nvidia-570-86-16fully.There's also deduplication across the different files. So you could even end up with less overall size over time if you use Flatpaks for everything.
Flatpaks implement deduping, so they actually don't take that much space when installed.
I think I found your real problem.
Didn't know about that, how exactly is that implemented?
Are you using a first gen eeePC?
I think I bought one of those for 40€, 12 years ago.
Man I miss the netbooks! Loved my Mini 9
In an alternate universe, phones with a fold-out hardware keyboard and full Linux OS are common.
And you can just plug them into a docking station to get a full PC.
That alternate universe is this one in 2009.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900
I put OSX on mine. A $200 Macbook mini was a cool project and a neat conversation piece.
Are you me? I hackintoshed mine too for a while! Was still alternating between OSX and Linux at the time.
I wish I had moved to Linux sooner. I was in IT at the time and only saw windows and OSX in the wild. Servers were all windows except for one xserve. I still to this day have no idea what that server did for that customer. My only real experience with Linux at that time was FreePBX when setting up phone systems for offices.
Thirded on the hackentosh.
I can neither confirm nor deny I got my hands on one years later and flipped it on fleBay with the Mac OS on it.
Its a Fujitsu futro s920, got it off ebay
Yeah flatpak won't work on my Nokia 3310 either, what a shit software...
Edit: if you upvoted this comment, your kneecaps pop when you pick up things from the ground
I'm too old to pick up stuff from the ground, I use one of them claws on a stick. Also, the 3210 was a nice phone while the 3310 was for the hip kids.
Pff, they're already doing that for past few years =\
2TB?
I only see around 500mb
Anger has a way of adding a few zeros.
Why the hell do you only have 8GB? Are you trying to install flatpaks on a smart fridge?
Sort of, actually
I was trying to build a PC just to play internet radio on using Shortwave, and a 30€ thin client with 4 1,5Ghz cores and no active cooling, 4 gigs of ram and an 8gb ssd were more than enough for that
I didn't even know ssd's(nuts) that small existed
I just want you to know, I appreciated your deez nuts joke.
It was subtle. It was well-done. Roasted, even.
Maybe it’s an eMMC chip on an embedded device?
For your use case, building from source might be more practical.
look into NixOS! there might already be a package for it. and NixOS can be very good about not duplicating dependencies.
I had a 200 gb ssd on my laptop and kept running out of space because all the old generations from nixos,,
nix collect-garbage, comrade! there's also another command to clean up older generations. if you're using git to version your nix config, you only really need to keep two generations: the current, and your last successful boot, since you can recover by git checkout.this? https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Shortwave
I think on a system like that you shouldn't even run a GUI or a window manager at most. What is the service that is actually using though, it links to this https://www.radio-browser.info/ I guess I see you can play stations directly from that. It seems it makes more sense to use like lynx browser or something to just browse that website directly.
I've clicked like 10 of them they are all mp3 or aac. mpv or vlc can decode those on the command line and play it with using like 15-100mb of space on your storage. Like this random station for example https://stream-uk1.radioparadise.com/aac-320
all in all your total install should be like 400mb
It is not for me personally, but for a person who wants a gui. And a Touch screen. Also I need an on Screen Keyboard because he also does not want to use a keyboard or mouse.
I tried using a very simple compositor like cage to just start shortwave, but I couldnt get my Keyboard to work since it needs gnome accessibility runtime to automatically show when clicking a text field.
And also xfce is more than light enough not to take up more than 1-2 secs of the total boot time
The flatpak thing was just the jellyfin-media-player so I can play my music from jellyfin too, but I guess ill just set up DLNA so I can stream to the device from my Phone
oh you can run the https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-mpv-shim and then just install MPV
Great, thanks
Hope you don't find out about Snaps
Wait till he finds out about Claps
Oh man I still remember the day I learned of the existence of Knaps and their shared libraries (Wrapz).
Don't get me started on Schnapps
Who the Fuck Casted ICE STORM???
http://www.gamecabinet.com/rules/WavingHands.html
Claps those cheeks
Lmao gotem
its barely legible but isnt that still less than a gb? where you you even get an 8gb ssd? why would you use one outside of some specialized embedded application that shouldn't even have a desktop interface? and even then why not something lighter than kde or gnome
I bought a Fujitsu thin client for 30€, and I decided to spend the 5€ extra to get one with a drive (making it 30€ total.
I have way too much free time
I have no money
Originally it should only have been a minimal void Linux install so it can connect to my local server via RDP. But I just realised that that futro s920 with 4 1,5ghz cores is actually way faster and more reliable than my 4th gen Intel i5 will ever be
I ssh'd into the PC. It runs xfce4, and it is just made to display shortwave (an Internet radio player) in full screen on a cashier terminal screen that I ripped from the terminal assembly. I just needed the cheapest thing to run shortwave on so my father has an Internet radio, since the other 2 options were
buy a big ass Antenna for his normal radio, or
buy a used Internet radio for 200€ (this way it only cost about 90€), wait until its Server is shut down, and then somehow with a mix of wireshark, dns logging, and pure luck somehow locally rerout the domain that the radio tries to connects to, figure out what kind of json file I need to host on my local server in order to make it refresh it's database of Radios, and maintain these IPs forever.
also, please note, the image is in no way connected to this project, it just reminded me of it
Maybe get the cheapest micro sd card or usb drive you can find and install it on there? You could probably double your storage size for a couple of euros!
Is 16 GB still in the market? I mostly find 32 or 64 GB for usb-stick.
8GB is pretty much dead nowadays (and so is CD/DVD)
(Honorable mention: RIP Floppy Disk )
Cut the crap. Flatpak uses hardlink from repo where file names are jash of the file itself. The chance of duplication is exactly same as that of duplicate files of same name in same directory.
Flatpak repo grows because we trade uncertainty over abi stability with installing all needed versions of libraries. For abi incompatible builds you could already do that in many distros (versioned soname) but to a lesser extent.
Also I usually do not install nvidia GL with flatpaks that I won't run on nvidia on hybrid gpu laptops anyway for energy reasons.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of flatpak for my usage, but this isn't a great argument against it.
I'd rather someone "only" release on flatpak if that's the simplest way they can support Linux compared to no support at all.
Yes absolutely true, but also no.
https://gitlab.com/TheEvilSkeleton/flatpak-dedup-checker
For me it is 32GB of data with deduplication, and only like 25GB with BTRFS compression.
So while still way too much, not really a problem if you have a reasonable 50mbits+ internet connection and a 200GB+ SSD
There should still be waay more force. There should only be one runtime (FDO) and KDE and GNOME being extensions to that. Not sure if these perfectly dedupe though
Those figures are larger than the total storage usage on my work computer, with every tools installed and repositories cloned locally. I know that large storage are way more accessible, but it still sounds crazy to take so much space.
The only way I can go over that is by installing npm dependencies in every source tree, which is also a thing that really should be improved.
There's very good reasons that app developers focus on flatpaks, which mostly revolves around how incredibly terrible the experience is creating native packages for each distro and each release version of those various distros.
Flatpak used to be problematic, but even a loud hater of Flatpak, Richard Brown of openSUSE, now lauds Flatpak as an excellent solution after his criticisms were addressed.
Yes, I personally use flatpak because I want a reliable way to update packages that are not in the native repositories. Still, I would love if it would be like snaps in the sense that I can use the native libraries and only install the app as flatpak.
Its just really frustrating to have to install the whole fricking gnome desktop again just so some flatpak can use it
You..... prefer snaps?
I guess we found the one person with that hot take.
damn you got ubuntuwashed, not sure if that is worse than windowashed or not
"maybe a software being excessively bloated isn't a good thing"
"just buy more storage bro"
B*tch. i live in a third world country, with limited internet and data plan, and also is still a student. If i can just buy more storage and better hardware i will.
This excuse is so dumb for many reasons. Provide me the source and I will make my own package if needed.
The same excuse is used to make terribly performing video games.. Just buy a better graphics card if you want to run
<any modern game>at over 60fps!Get a tape player jeeez
Lol kinda wild to me seeing flatpak hate as a new Linux user (running fedora with kde). Flatpaks have just worked for me and it's been fantastic
If you're new to Linux, then your probably not familiar with the full Linux community yet. Much like in real life, online Linux spaces tend to have a very loud minority of conservatives who hate progress.
Usually you'll see them hating on things like systemd, 64bit architectures, containers, new packaging systems (like Flatpak), immutable and experimental distros (like Nix), Wayland, "bloated" desktops like KDE or Gnome, and much more.
And just like in real life, the antidote is to not take another person's word for it. Do your own homework/try things out yourself and arrive at your own conclusions.
Flatpaks work great on my laptop, but they have can have issues if you use multiple hard-drives or partitions. Especially for gaming.
whoa look at mr rich boy here with a drive that costs more than $2 on ebay
I'm coming back to Linux after a hiatus. I've spent most of my time with the Debian flavors. Not afraid of the command line, but not an expert either.
I'm trying out Bluefin right now, semi-immutable atomic os based on silverblue, based on Fedora.
On normal installs, I usually change and install enough stuff, that when it comes time to upgrade to the next os version, I'm sometimes not able to without introducing instability or it outright falling. The former more common than the latter.
Let's just say I got used to reinstalling and starting from scratch, especially if I experimented too hard and broke something big like my DE or drivers.
So with bluefin I'm hoping to leave everything that's core, alone. I'm trying to rely on flatpaks, app images, and distrobox for everything else.
So far so successful. I've only got a couple minor gripes, some limitations of flatpaks. But I've also only been at it for like a week, so we'll see.
I guess my point is, flatpaks have a place 🤷♂️
This is where I'm at too. If I go crazy and start installing stuff natively to experiment I end up with extra stuff auto configured that's no longer needed and random problems I'm too lazy to figure out how to solve. Flatpak doesn't do that and I don't have to worry about that. I can install random stuff to play with and uninstall it cleanly. Some packages need more system access than flatpak gives natively and with those I'll make the decision of if I want to set it up and tear it down manually or not.
Storage is cheap, my time not so much.
People bitching about Flatpaks don't understand that they have dedupe built in. You're literally not using any more space and it's easier for app developers to deploy.
Try using Snaps sometime, if you want something to actually bitch about.
No problem, just makr sure your system has the exact version of libraries the application needs. And oh, you will only update those dependencies when the application update updates the requirements.
Oh what's that? Another application you want to install uses the same lib but different version? Tough luck, chump!
Seriously it's either flatpaks or the multi-version dependency management that openSUSE has, and you're not saving much more space here either.
or statically compiling literally everything then you got 50 copies of the same thing like windows & macos!
flatpak install/update <package name> --no-relatedthere problem solved
Just build from source
Then just unpack said flatpak, there are tools for that.
I absolutely hate all this container shit, for my uses. That said, they make sense when you need to sandbox applications for whatever reason, but most of those uses seem like they would be better served with VMs.
I actually like flatpak. The only issues I have are with GTK apps which I try not to use anymore.
What after those issues?
Not using the Breeze theme even when it is applied for GTK apps. The cursor being way too big on libadwaita apps. Supposedly that last one will be fixed very soon.
For me trying to make GTK softwares to looks consistent with everything else is always a pain in the ass, and don't get me started on different GTK version themes aren't compatible with each other, so a GTK3 software doesn't even looks the same with another GTK software just because it use GTK4.
Honestly the problem's even worse with Qt apps. I still haven't figured out how to get the PrismLauncher flatpak to use my Kvantum theme, and I looked everywhere
Alternatively though, if an app has KDE library dependencies for example, it's kinda nice to not have to install a whole other desktop system wide.
So maybe use Debian and compile the app yourself instead? The Dev made something free with their time, use your time to make it work for you.
I liked Snaps and Flatpaks fine when I first started using Linux, and the distro I was on treated them the same as software in the repo, but I eventually started to avoid them because of the space they take up, and because I got tired of constantly having to mess around with permissions to try to get things working. Now, if something isn't available in rpm, I use AppImage or a tarball, or compile it myself.
Anyone interested in build, security, deployment, should have issue with that. But look at its corp champions and discover their motive.
Very true! Good points.
Build it from source them.
If it's only available as a flatpak I don't need it. 🤷
Its your call
However, Flatpak is growing in popularity so chances are that's going to be more and more the norm. Same thing with Wayland.
Are there people who hate Wayland as well?
There are people who hate anything new.
Call it flatpak, call it wayland, call it systemd. There's always haters.
Systemd isn't new... (Tell that to the systemd haters who think it is still "controversial")
Point taken though
Yes there are. Actually quite a lot. They hate it because it isn't a perfect solution in every single case that X.Org provided but ignore the long history of vulnerabilities, bugs, and cursed workarounds present in X.Org. it is getting harder for them to hate though as most of the pain points (eg. color management and global shortcuts) are part of the standard now.
You're not wrong on the other points, but that one… you'd also have to ignore the things that got fixed in X.Org, and the things that will show up in the various wayland implementations that were fixed previously. That's the thing when doing things from scratch, old issues shows up sometimes.
They will hate it even if Wayland is absolutely perfect in every way. It is less about Wayland and more about wanting to stand out and gate keep. They want Linux to be a small group of elite users only.
With that being said, there are still reasons to use Xorg. As of today X still has the edge in remote access and desktop sharing. I think that's liable to change soon but for now tools like Xpra xrdp only work with X. Some desktops have things built in but those are desktop specific so I don't see them as a general solution.
Flatpak is love, flatpak is life.
Storage is cheap, I don't care at all as long as I can easily install it without having to go online to search for missing dependencies in the correct version.
My only problem with Flatpak was when I tried to install an IDE and made it use Podman or Docker and the container thingy caused problems.
"x is cheap" is not the greatest take imo. it's cheap until you just so happen to not be able to afford it. what now? better give me an income for the price in storage. not talking about flatpak specifically.
This. Any many laptops use eMMC, meaning that you can't just increase the OS storage.
Another missed occasion to have taken a screenshot. There's gnome-screenshot, scrot, your DE's integrated tool and so many others to choose from, you can do it!
That sort of shit makes me hate the modern internet. (Also screenshots are cleaner and therefore compress better since you seem to care (rightfully) about storage space.)
Yeah but if youre using a lemmy app on your phone its significantly faster to just use your phone camera rather than having to share/transfer the file over somehow, or sign into lemmy on your pc. Im not saying you're wrong, but i get why someone wouldn't care for a quick throwaway post. Also storage then isnt an issue on the PC at all because the image is only on the phone.
Phones also have limited storage?
Regardless, posting on the desktop is exactly as hard as typing in the name of your instance and your credentials...
If you're gonna be editing a meme, typing comments and such, it's worth it very fast imo.
And crucially, it's a really basic form of respect for your audience. Oh and also framing the shot correctly, we're missing part of the text...
Yeah but their computer is what had limited storage. Most phones these days have a lot more than 8gb. Idk like i said youre not wrong but i still got what they were trying to communicate.
btrfs compression and dedupe. Saves a lot of space
Skelly is rapidly approaching your location.
tl;dr: some applications (like Bottles) are designed to run only in sandboxed environments. Flatpak is a robust way to ensure that an application has the correct dependencies and conditions for proper functionality.
Ok dude, you should have looked at the minimum requirements for a linux install before buying that thin client. I checked debian and fedora and both had minimun requirements exceeding 8gb for graphical environments. Read the manual, stop bashing a tool you arent using right. Flatpak works great for almost every use case, especially if you learn how to tweak the sandbox.
"you're holding it wrong"?
I only use flatpack when I need the most up to date version of a software for whatever reason.
and 8gb ssd? at that size it's surely a removable 2242 ngff drive, it's like 10$ for a 64gb one. you're quite literally throttling your systems read/write speed, cause ssds want at least 20% free to manipulate files.
he said it's a thin client so it is likely soldered on but almost all of them do have m.2 support. But many of them are actual sata m.2 so don't accidentally buy a nvme m.2. easy enough to check which yours supports
But it’s a delta.
Or alternatively... crzyshrtct was not found on your host, but is required, daddy. Please install it to be able to use the software.
Lots of people seem to like it. I also use it for like 2 or 3 desktop apps, but it's alao littering my filesystem with gigabytes of runtimes. And I believe I can salely remove Skype now...
Who likes having their hard drive space wasted?
I like flatpaks when they come from the developer. They are often more stable, up-to-date and complete than those from OS repositories.
What I don't like about them is when I have to fight the permissions. They're often too tight and make integration with the rest of the OS too hard.
Here's a rarely known secret of the Linux world. Almost no software in a Linux system came from the developer.
Every single distro, package manager or repository is handled by people who did not develop the software being packaged. The few exceptions are the software who distributes their own .deb/.rpm, appimage, flatpak or their own repository. But the bulk of tools, utilities and apps were handled by the people managing the distribution or the distro main repository. No sane developer has the team or the time to config, compile, package, and test their software to every single Linux distro that exists. Hence why Dev distributed versions are usually targeted to single channels and to specific distros and versions. Packages compatibility is a literal hell.
Nix is very interesting, but a completely new rope to shoot yourself in the foot. A new hell is still new though.
that's why you just compile your .flatpak file and say "gl suckas, works 4 me :^)"
Technically it's empty space that's being wasted, if you fill it up it's being useful!
The benefits easily outweighs the cost of some extra space use. We're not talking about a lot here, after all, with dedupping, shared runtimes and what have you.
People who like having fine-grained security controls over their apps?
And the only possible way to have that is to burn through disk space?
As far as I know, yes. You tell me the alternative if you’ve got it.
If all you've got against Flatpak is it uses more storage, then I don't know what to tell you. I have a 1TB drive that cost $80 and my GNOME system with 106 flatpaks uses just under 7%. The original post claiming 2TB is absurd.
There is no reason that you couldn't, for instance, bind-mount the host's nvidia drivers into the container namespace when launching the flatpak. Would avoid having to download the driver again, and reduce runtime memory pressure since the driver code pages would be shared between everything again.
I don't have the time to make a "stop doing math" meme for Unix permissions
So don't change the defaults?
Idk, probably all the people who downvoted OP and the majority of people here on Lemmy I met in discussions about Flatpak & Co. And If I look at the average size of a modern Windows installation, I'd say at least 70% of desktop users to begin with.
Gigabytes?
I have a bunch of apps installed and it is only a little over a gigabyte.
Interesting. I have 4 tools installed as Flatpaks and that makes 4.4 GB
What tools?
Rnote, Skype, Teams and Televido (Live TV stream). Since they're not in the repo or I needed sandboxing. I mean I don't need any help or anything. That laptop has enough storage and a beginner distro on it.
TONS OF SAME STUFF
every time:
you probably have thrice that in your yay/paru or emerge cache
i know what you are.
what kind of app only bundles a flatpak? Surely there's manual install instructions?
Definitely, no way the git doesn't have info on how to build it from source or at least a Deb package download. I assume it's people who are annoyed their distro doesn't have that software in the repos but it's on flathub.
I see DLL Hell is still going strong...
Everyone brazenly saying Flatpak is the best install package management system has stockholm syndrome.
It is the best one for people that don't know a lot about linux. Many people are at a loss when they read basic errors like
fatal error: <header>.h: No such file or directoryorld: cannot find -l<library>. Flatpak solves a lot of that by specifically including all of it in the installation.So ye, for non-power users, flatpak is the best package manager. It also has only one downside, which is the increased storage requirement for apps as they have to bring all of their dependencies themselves, which is okay these days as storage isn't that expensive anymore.
And everything is better than fucking snap if we're honest for a second.
I really don't understand the flatpak hate. Stuff doesn't magically work across distros, and app devs don't usually want to debug every major one. If you're running linux on a thinkpad from 2004, sure, it wouldn't be the best but most people can probably afford the overhead.
Linux people tend to have very strong opinions lol. I don't get the hate either, but I do understand why people dislike the thought of having the same library lying around multiple times. I am one of those "purists", but that's why I compile most things from source
Like much software, it's great - for some situations. And ugly for others.
I miss the days when packages were only available as deb or tar.gz
Edit: /s
I don't : )
Me neither, I really like the usability of flatpak
Agreed. Snap is. It can do desktop and system components.
And you get the glorious security of beingwatched over by a profit-focused company and protected by a closed to proprietary server.
1- Those locale and icon themes will be reused with other flatpacks. And it's less than half of a gigabyte, not the 2tb claimed in the overlay text.
2- Use docker container with prowlarr instead of torrhunt. And check https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy
It's very efficient for what it does. and your programs will actually open.
Is it on the Arch User Repository?
the software he is installing in his pic is a snap wrapper over a proprietary, closed source torrent thing. So don't even bother.
Buy a thumbdrive lol
Or a SSD
Maybe even a MicroSD
No source to compile it yourself?
Don't your filesystem deduplicate it on the fly anyway?
I believe that's what
ostreeis forLike many have said, can you build it yourself?
Flatpaks have their uses, and for many people they're a great system that solves a situation well enough and with great convenience. For other situations, flatpaks are an ugly hack. I think we just have to accept that devs will not always package or tailor their software for all situations (electron apps, anyone?!), but at least in the FOSS world you can usually compile yourself if you need to.
Flatpak is such a cool tool, kind of sad seeing it be mainly used for barely usable bloatware like libadwaita and electron. So much unrealised potential
Flatpak only is a yikes, but I see the appeal Works with everyone, so is fools prove But a .deb is always welcome ;)
flatpak only on an immutable distro with podman containers is great for the dev work I do. I get all the benefits of the AUR, .deb, and zypper while keeing my machine rock solid.
Void Linux is the Definition of „lacks a few packages”
What exists that is only available as a flatpak? The source should be available at least.
I hate it when people want to hate on something, yet get the platform or alternatively the proposition wrong. Because you will release stuff as a Flatpak and possibly on Flathub.