I think that's obtuse, comedy has no limits: As long as you don't act upon uncomfortable / morally reprehensible ideas you joke about, you aren't any worse or better than if you had never joked about it. I would argue that exposing a bunch of people for what they joke about with no evidence that they've actually done something wrong is far worse than joking about offensive subjects. (one has zero negative affects, the other has many)
(I must say I disagree completely with that guy sharing messages from his girlfriend- that piece is very weird and a total breach of trust)
Keep in mind the source of this story. The author has every reason to describe the stuff on their group chat sound tame, so if it sounds bad, it's probably 3 times worse than that.
(I must say I disagree completely with that guy sharing messages from his girlfriend- that piece is very weird and a total breach of trust)
My impression from the original post was that kind of stuff was what drove most of the fallout. Leaked off color memes aren't going to ruin people's relationships, but leaked shit talk or breaches of someone else's privacy will.
but leaked shit talk or breaches of someone else’s privacy will.
shit talk and leaking messages is pretty bad, but that's really common these days unfortunately. I wonder how frequently texts like that are shared between female group chats. Depends on the person, and the group, but they are just more connected.
Speaking ill of someone not present to defend themselves is commonly in bad tastes, imo. Commonality of occurrence certainly doesn’t make it any less wrongful. I don’t think it’s a gender specific issue based on the story being about guys doing this.
i'm not saying it is, but from what i understand women tend to have a more cohesive social group, and tend to talk about things between them a lot more, so it would reason that there is a larger chance of stuff like this breaking out into that conversation.
Men just don't really talk about their personal lives all that much. And when they do it's usually shitposting.
Speaking ill of someone not present to defend themselves is commonly in bad tastes, imo.
to be clear, i would generally agree with this, unless it's understand to be venting/not seriously considered. It might be weird in the latter half, but it's a lot less rude if it's an inside joke specifically among a group of people.
I don’t think it’s a gender specific issue based on the story being about guys doing this.
and to be fair, if we're going full gender difference analysis, i think guys are a lot more likely to have a group chat like this, than women, so there's that.
derek is still a cunt though. If you join and find shit you don't like the first thing you should do is confront people. Either derek just likes causing people problems (and is a problematic individual) or he is not very bright and thinks that everything people say must be 100% true and serious.
I would not ever want to be friends with derek, that's for sure.
yeah idk call me schizo all you want but i'm not huge on being friends with someone willing to drop everything to make me look the worst fucking person possible.
Derek did literally everything possible to cause fallout here, he really didn't need to go that far.
How would you feel if you invited a few people to your home and then found out one of them secretly recorded audio the entire time? That’s the equivalent of screenshotting messages in a small group chat.
Unless you were literally planning crimes, the actual content of the conversation is irrelevant to the principle.
If, in my home me and my friends are sharing sensitive info about past relationships and other actions that can embarrass or hurt people, then exposing that is for the best. I mean where is the limit, if you're invited to a chat where they're massively racist and sexist, do you think that deserves to be exposed or do you just keep everyone's dirty secrets no matter what?
idk i'd probably leave, and if anybody ever asked me about i'd say i didn't like it. If i saw concerning behavior i would probably de-associate from those specific people. Not grenade an entire friend group over it, that's extra.
It's not my place to manage friend group politics.
If I see concerning behavior, I feel the need to say something because it's concerning. More girls will be embarrassed, more people could be exploited, it's not ok. I feel like seeing that, knowing you can do something, and choosing not to is pretty close to condoning it. It's not about friend group politics; there are people outside the friend group who are being passed around in that without their knowledge or consent, and that's not ok. I wouldn't care if it was just guys with dark memes.
Doing literally nothing when you see shitty behavior is almost as bad as the shitty behavior itself. Stop letting people you know get away with being pieces of shit - call them out. Ignoring it simply enables more people to ignore it, and the behavior slowly becomes more and more socially acceptable.
Using your same metaphor, if you came to another person's house and all they did was shit on their family, and then make dark jokes about killing them - is it all fun and games until something bad happens?
There are lines. You don't know what Derek saw.
But apparently it was so bad that a lot of people are really disgusted at the core group.
that's true, but judging by this thread people are also really sensitive about this kind of shit, so it wouldn't take very much for people to get pissed off like this.
Yeah, I'm one of those people. I have this apparently strange sensitivity to people sharing intimate photos of others without their consent or knowledge. Feels very exploitative. I'm just one of those people who doesn't like to sit back and let people hurt others like that for the lols of a group chat.
Flip side: how would you feel if you shared your most vulnerable, intimate moments with one trusted person, only to realise that you've been recorded, shared around and commented on in a group chat full of acquaintances?
Can you see how Derek just delivered karmic justice?
yeah but half of those were previously recorded, the worst thing in that chat is probably the text messages from the one dude specifically. Maybe making fun of people behind their back? But it really depends on how that went down, could be primarily for venting it's hard to say without having concrete examples. So i'm giving the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Not to disrespect if that's what your relative prefers, but nibling is actually the gender neutral for niece/nephew. Sibling is already gender neutral as sister/brother are the gendered terms.
Angels described in the bible aren't people with pretty bird wings. They are oscillating, intersecting ribbons of eyes and feathers, pulsing and shifting and glowing.
A reference to the „biblically accurate angel“ meme, which is a bit hard to describe so I recommend just looking it up at seeing the pictures to get the reference
So what if i just argued that "cocksucker" just meant that you would suck someones cock if you got you something. I.E. you're easily bribed/manipulated. As far as i know, that's how most people use it.
That's literally the implication like 99% of the time. If you wanted to insult someone for being gay, you would just call them a removed or something lmao. No need to mince words at that point.
Just learn a bit before bothering others with educating you. History matters, the way that this slur has been used historically and presently, is mostly homophobic.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
to be clear, the wiki page you explicitly linked literally say it has a historical connotation, and the primary example it lists is from checks notes 53 years ago.
I'm going to hazard a guess that the sentiment has probably changed, a little bit. Since 1972. 1972 to be clear, was 8 years after the passing of the civil rights act. It's a bit of a different time period now.
anyway point is, i'm not convinced anybody cares about using this as a homophobic slur anymore.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
it's whatever, that's how the internet is lol. This thread has been more than amusing for me thus far.
"Far-left" and "Democrat" do not belong in the same sentence, ignoramus. Get educated. You can actually read, presumably. Deprogram yourself. You can actually do it. If I could do it at 12, you can do it today
I think you're getting caught up in the state being abusive and controlling to it's citizens (as Dump is doing now) and society self-regulating itself for it's own benefit (something that happens in all social groups) as being one and the same. Just because someone calls out another person's bad behaviour, that does not equate to supporting a dictatorial, or similarly controlling, leadership.
First of all, screw the Democrats they are not left wing. They are center right shitlibs, with a few milqtoast standouts like Bernie and AOC.
Second. You correctly look at democrats and see they are just Republicans lite, but your mistake is in thinking that going further left leads to greater power to the state to curtail speech, thought, and action. The left wants liberation. Economic and social. The power of government to celurtail speech is not liberation, it's oppression.
What have far left (or far right, or even centrist) politics got to do with it? This is about what's socially acceptable. Yes that feeds into politics and left/right/centre opinions, but I'm not discussing politics (nor was the person you replied to). Which ties in with my first comment that you're combining politics with social issues erroneously.
Ultimately abuse is, abuse, is abuse, no matter how you dress it up.
Where do they say that they want microphones listening to people? Just because someone doesn't like some ways of talking, doesn't mean that they want 1984-style surveillance of everyone.
Calm yourself, man. You seem a little bit emotional there. How on earth do you presume to know my political affiliations when you don't even know which side of the fucking planet I'm on? Get a grip.
And idk if I'd say it's a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I'd say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
find me people who suck cock that actually give a fuck about other people calling people cocksuckers and we can talk.
And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
nobody is arguing that sucking cock is submissive??? The argument is that being a cocksucker is a submissive thing.
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
So, if you were to replace 'cocksucker' with 'towelhead', slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This 'power thing' you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
He could have also said "vaginalicker" but he didn't, he used a well known homophobic slur. Also, if he wanted to say submissive he could have used well known submissive insults.
They hurt everyone else involved intentionally do to a sense of self richeousness. It's a textbook definition of narcicism.
If someone calls the person they are going through a breakup with a self richeous dingbat who likes to tear down everyone around them in a private chat it's not a nice thing to do. It also didn't hurt that person until Derek brought it to their attention in an attempt to hurt the speaker while upsetting/hurting the person who was called names. Especially digging up things from years ago. These people aren't running for office, they are kids dealing with life in a place of privacy. The number of people I've heard call soneone a little dicked asshole who isn't good in bed is around 50. Never once would I think spreading that information to them or their friends group would be for the greater good. The person is hurt and lashing out. It's often best to let them recover and sort out their own situation. If they were making plans to harm someone that's another story, but that isn't what happened here it appears.
At the point of sharing photos and Photoshopping someone to ridicule them, this isn't an offhand comment said in frustration. This is planned and executed ridicule and mockery. He's exposing them because he thought their "friends" should know who they are and what they are doing. Not for the intent of "hurting everyone else involved intentionally due to a sense of self righteousness". Whether you agree with what he thought or not, it's not narcissism (by itself).
It's also super bizarre that you want privacy for them when they are fucking sharing photos (the context reading they were private) and sharing "raunchy texts". Where was the privacy for their victims huh? They deserve what they got.
At the point of sharing photos and Photoshopping someone to ridicule them, this isn’t an offhand comment said in frustration. This is planned and executed ridicule and mockery.
i mean, we also don't know what they are. It could be really bad, but it could also be harmless shitposting among the community.
I don't know about you, but I am very reluctant to insult others, even in private conversations, even if they might deserve it
I always try to approach things constructively, because in the end, those patterns and thoughts bleed out into the world and your behaviour
And do keep in mind, even from the poster's side of the story, it sounds pretty darn bad, and people have a tendency to downplay their side's wrongdoings and elevate the other side's. Chances are, it was probably quite bad
If there's people in my life that go around talking badly about other like that, even in private.. yeah, I'd want to stay the hell away from them too. It's just a massive warming sign, and you're going to be the target sooner or later. And you don't want a coordinated group acting in bad faith against you
I have had this exact talk with my kids repeatedly and probably will again ''the internet is a PUBLIC place, if you wouldn't do or say things you wouldn't be comfortable doing in the quad at school or in the middle of Walmart, DON'T do it online."
Depends on context. Maybe I'm not reading the OP right, but if it's in the context of "yo guys what do I say" it's different from "yo guys look how desperate she is lmao"
If your comment was so bad that a person you both trust and respected was like, "WTF" to expose it, that's on you.
The whole meToo movement is based on this. Just "locker room" talk to some, but deeply disgusting sexual harassment from a small group and behavior to the other 90%.
I text my friends offensive shit too, but imo the only reason you can consider them funny is because it's the exact opposite of who i am. Like i don't even really swear irl.
But shit like forwarding private messages or bullying real people is so disgusting to me. I often talk to girls from tinder, and they sometimes send me screenshots of people from tinder to make fun of them. Instant turn off and block.
This is an over generalization. How can you support that this is true other than for yourself alone?
Sometimes the unfiltered things I discuss in private are for the purpose of getting feedback. A brainstorming space without any of the regular inhibitions censoring free thought. I’m not looking for affirmation, but genuinely want to see what the unfiltered feedback would be, and am ready to change my option on a dime.
Take this to the next level: you do this in your own mind / imagination before you speak. You think things that you don’t say. So is everything in your mind, even things you think are wrong and choose not to express, your true self? And you should be ashamed of shameful thoughts?
Also what do you even mean by “true” self? If I act differently around different groups of people, which one is true?
To the people who think what OP did was completely normal and something everyone does, (and I hate to use this phrase) check the “ratio” here. Nobody thinks this is normal. You and OP are in the slim minority spewing vile shit about people in your lives. It’s cruel and childish. You’d be smart to learn from OP’s predicament before you find yourself in the exact same situation with everyone you know hating you because you thought it was perfectly normal to constantly trash talk them behind their back. It’s not normal. Not everyone is doing it. Assholes like OP and apparently yourself are doing it. And it clearly can bite you in the ass. As I said in my initial comment, these kinds of things can have serious real world consequences. So you may wanna wise up and start being a respectable human being ;)
This is a terrible take. Obviously, I can say something offensive to a friend that they would find funny exactly because they know I don't mean it seriously.
Saying that is some kind of "reflection of my true self" is honestly just dumb. I'm saying the offensive thing because I find it offensive myself, and because I would never say it to someone I don't trust to understand that.
Shitposting is just pretending to be stupid/racist/shitty for laughs/attention, right? Pretty low form of humor, if you ask me (no one did), but I'm also guessing a lot of shitposters aren't just pretending.
I like a laugh as much as the next person, but we can't sit around going "Why are people in this country so fucking stupid/racist/shitty?" while simultaneously elevating "acting" stupid to some high form of humor. You see how that's counterproductive, right?
“Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.” - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
“Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.” - Jason Garrett-Glaser
I don't think it is that people are saying shitposting is a higher form of humor, but that it requires a level of trust that you know the people you're shitposting with know you and know you're joking. Lack of that leads to your second quote.
That's totally fair, and I agree with you. I probably shouldn't have used the phrase "high form of humor". I more meant "worthwhile form of humor". Even that doesn't really encapsulate what I mean.
I don't know. It can be hard to separate brainrot from intelligent comedy, and I laugh at both, myself. I'm not the comedy police or anything, I just don't want to end up here:
Great failure of Pauline (🤡🤡🤡🤡) discourse: actions don't matter, only faith. Bitch nothing in your head matters, only what you do is consequential. Motherfucker destroyed Christianity before it even had a chance get started
In the 90s, calling yourself a flat earther was a opportunity to have a fun and yet silly conversation about belief in science. During that time, both people KNEW that the earth was round. It was an exercise in creativity and played straight for laughs.
But somewhere in the 2000, some people didn't realize the satire. They actually BELIEVED in it.
There's a line of shitposting like with anything.
Shitposting is an art. It's satire.
Then there's actual shitty people who don't realize that the good shit posts harm nobody. Where shitty people posting disgusting racist things under the guise of Shitposting are too stupid to understand the nuance.
To the people who think what OP did was completely normal and something everyone does, (and I hate to use this phrase) check the “ratio” here. Nobody thinks this is normal. You and OP are in the slim minority spewing vile shit about people in your lives. It’s cruel and childish. You’d be smart to learn from OP’s predicament before you find yourself in the exact same situation with everyone you know hating you because you thought it was perfectly normal to constantly trash talk them behind their back. It’s not normal. Not everyone is doing it. Assholes like OP and apparently yourself are doing it. And it clearly can bite you in the ass. As I said in my initial comment, these kinds of things can have serious real world consequences. So you may wanna wise up and start being a respectable human being ;)
As a person who has been shit posting for at least a decade at this point, 99% of shit posting is either just saying something stupid on purpose or being a cunt to someone.
"Shitposting is an art" is some shit a dweeb says online to make themselves look interesting because "I like to say dumb shit for attention" sounds a lot worse.
Like sure, sometimes it's funny to be a cunt to someone online (within reason) but let's not pretend it's something profound.
Furthermore, the fact that it's not something profound but just dumbass behavior done for laughs is the reason it can be misunderstood by honest dumbasses.
I'll defend shitposting here, because I think you're simplifying it a bit too much.
Shitposting is so much more than "saying dumb stuff for shits n' giggles". First of all, as with anything else, there are good and bad shitposts. A good shitpost usually contains a solid undertone of irony or sarcasm. An important part of the humour is not just in "being dumb" it's about using a statement that is dumb in a very specific way in combination with a specific context in order to create something funny.
Furthermore, a good shitpost uses exaggeration in a good way. The reader should preferably be "lured into" the post, not realising it's a shitpost, before the notch is turned to 11 revealing that it was a shitpost. This adds an extra layer of humor and social commentary: The fact that the post at first seems believable forces you to recon with what kind of things you would actually believe someone could write. It also makes the target of the humor clear.
Shitposting may not be high art, but calling it "just being a cunt to someone" is missing the mark. "Just being a cunt to someone" is exactly that, and it's not shitposting.
To be fair, I didn't expect you to respond at all, and really just wanted to point out that calling a stranger you know nothing about a "dweeb" in response to something they wrote is a prime example of "just being a cunt to someone". You didn't need to respond, but you chose to do so by being a cunt.
Regardless, I think you missed some of the sarcasm in what I was writing (which, in hindsight, isn't very clear). My point isn't that shitposting is some form of high art. It's that it's a form of humor that amounts to more than saying provocative stuff or being a cunt. At it's best, a shitpost can even contain some social commentary in the same way as caricatures can. Of course, as with all other humor, there are plenty of bad shitposts out there too, which are often just trolls trying to stir up shit.
Isn't this a group chat between friends though, so its not an open community where actual idiots are free to just join it.
I play a lot of games that include genocide, like Rimworld, Stellaris, Drox Operative 2, Factorio. That doesn't mean I am actually going to go out and commit one.
Tbh this whole thing lacks sufficient context. The guy is probably diminishing what he did, so may well be a bellend. But we don't really have enough information.
OK. We start at the beginning.
10000 years before our current date, a boy is born in Anatolia that will one day become known as The Emperor... Wait perhaps we should start 30 million years ago since you also should know about the war in heaven, the fall of the C'tan and the fate on a race known as the Necrotyr.
What you do in private does not necessarily reflect who you are in public. And who you are in public, does not necessarily reflect who you are in private either.
Realistically I don't think we have enough information to judge fairly. The person is probably minimising what they did, and if that is the case may well have deserved it. But we don't actually know what was said.
that is true, but i think this is a definite "everybody sucks" type of post.
I'm also not sure that derek needed to leak this either, especially going back like 5 years, that's pretty unhinged. Even a "yeah i don't like those guys i joined the group chat and it was 💀" is going to be enough to clue most people in.
But makes a very big difference. Talking bad things about someone publicly is not okay, and the whistleblower is doing the right thing. Well, mostly. It's not really cool that now the private messages are shared with even more people!
Talking about anything privately is a private discussion and as such, not a huge problem. Sharing someone's private messages with a group with more than two or three members is already public to an extent.
was the entire "secret" group chat dedicated to making fun of people though? That's the thing we don't know, it just seems like a fairly active, long running group chat, with a number of distasteful posts made over time.
If you have a secret group chat where you make fun of your friends behind their backs, then you’re an awful piece of shit. I don’t care if it’s not solely dedicated to making fun of people. If you do it enough that your friend group ostracizes you when they find out, then you deserve to be ostracized. Why are you defending this behavior? Do you do this?
Then it’s not behind their back. That’s the bad part here. It’s not making fun of your friends, it’s secretly making fun of your friends. That’s the difference between “all in good fun” and “being an asshole”.
lmfao what a fucking excuse of a reason.
i hope you know i hate you. not hyperbole. i hope everyone else knows i hate you too. like genuinely, and actually; blatantly being a terrible person like you are is a large part of what is wrong with the world and i despise every single one of you chucklefucks that inches us ever further away from common decency, day by day. life isnt some fucking game.
do you recognize you’re doing olympic level mental gymnastics throughout these comments in order to make the people you identify with in the internet story the good guys or are you just incredibly dense and/or like fucking with people for kicks?
no actually, i’m done sitting and acting like that sort of shit is acceptable, no thanks.
paradox of tolerance demands you completely and decisively shut these fucks down before they takeover your society with their shitty ass rhetoric of hate. i’d rather it begin and end here on a dinky little internet forum than 15 years down the line in another gettysburg. i won’t aid and abet in the breakdown of common norms and decency, as you so kindly suggested.
Paradox of tolerance demands nothing, it is a concept that suggests some level of intolerance is required to protect overall tolerance. I don't think it even applies here since those guys weren't being intolerant, just despicable among themselves.
Methinks you picked that up as a buzzword to indicate and justify any time you think intolerance is called for, which is unnecessary in this case because they're just being vile assholes that you can choose to scorn.
they start like this. then they become shitty, abusive incels in adulthood. then they vote for people like the cadre of neofascist in western politics rn.
the incel to fascist pipeline is real and dangerous. and i won’t act like those who fall down it are victims and not complicit monsters anymore.
this is a fair point, i don’t disagree. it’s valid to call me out on conflating ideas of common decency with absolute morality.
that said, there are certain things that if you do; definitely make you a bad person. i think to the recently viral tweet of the ivy league ethics & philosophy professor who was absolutely aghast at incoming students’ ideas of morality. it speaks to the problem in this thread.
To the people who think what OP did was completely normal and something everyone does, (and I hate to use this phrase) check the “ratio” here. Nobody thinks this is normal. You and OP are in the slim minority spewing vile shit about people in your lives. It’s cruel and childish. You’d be smart to learn from OP’s predicament before you find yourself in the exact same situation with everyone you know hating you because you thought it was perfectly normal to constantly trash talk them behind their back. It’s not normal. Not everyone is doing it. Assholes like OP and apparently yourself are doing it. And it clearly can bite you in the ass. As I said in my initial comment, these kinds of things can have serious real world consequences. So you may wanna wise up and start being a respectable human being ;)
my only disagreement is that unfortunately they’ve succeeded in pushing the overton window so hard that the ratio is actually much more controversial than the comment implies. if only every edgelord here read and seriously considered this person’s reply.
Unfortunately i will sleep well knowing that i don't engage in shitty behavior with people, and that i just simply do not care about shit like this that much.
do you recognize you’re doing olympic level mental gymnastics throughout these comments in order to make the people you identify with in the internet story the good guys or are you just incredibly dense and/or like fucking with people for kicks?
i don't like anybody here, all of these people sound like assholes, some of them stuck up their own asses, others a bit too unfiltered for their own good. But we also don't know the full extent of the conversation and fallout from this, so who knows what actually happened.
Regardless if derek wanted to make the point that these people weren't great, he didn't need to leak messages, especially not 5 year old ones. He put as much effort as possible into destroying this friend group, and i wouldn't be surprised if this is regular behavior from him. People like that use it to their advantage, only to fuck over people later in their lives by doing the same shit lmao.
Anybody willing to without permission leak shit like is asking for trouble, legally or not.
seriously jesus fucking christ what about this in particular is making it such a good litmus test to root out shitty people? they’re all just immediately, unironically, unabashedly identifying themselves in the comments here, just like that lmfao.
What about the people on the group chat who were disrespecting other people's right to privacy by sharing private mesaages and pictures? It's cool when they do it?
See, you misunderstand. You must either be enraged that there was a snitch, or uphold them as a paragon of justice. There is no nuance on the internet. Silly person.
i doubt the war memes were that bad honestly. There's been a lot of shitposting about it general, it's just that most people haven't seen it because it's not particularly common. The real question is what their actual opinion is.
My groups collective chats are more of a microcosm of meme culture at the given time, sort of a petri dish of various meme strains fighting for (limited) mental resources.
There’s always two group chats, one for everyone and one for the people you want to talk to. And if you think that doesn’t happen I have some bad news for you.
If my group chats got leaked they would just think we were all idiots who love vehicles and watching people get hurt or make really dark jokes.
Nothing really personal other than always posting really cringe crap and then tagging someone who we know it'll piss off and telling them that it reminded us of them.
i wouldn't have guessed that reading the comments of this would lead to blocking another lemmyworld user. it's amazing how much better a conversation can be when you get rid of the actual shit
There's the shitposters who post weird funny things and are here just having a laugh.
Then the awful mofos who think Shitposting means they can be their true selves and post offensive garbage under the guise of Shitposting. Then they get called out, get really offended/flip out because they didn't realize.
What is not fair? I just said kind seeks kind, you don't need people that aren't your kind. It's an easy way to figure out who isn't your kind. The leak, is a great way to communicate.
As OP said, he found quite some more people that wanted to join.
You don't even need a Derek, all you have to do is have one of the 8 perceive that they are being wronged. One's mate makes googly eyes at another, next thing you know, it's all public.
Never post anything anywhere if it ever getting out will fuck you.
Nothing is private and you should strive to be the kind of person that doesn't say shit about other people behind their backs.
So shitposters were shitposting. Don't be bitches and act surprised when people are offended. Own that shit. It was meant to offend, that's what makes it funny. I'll join their discord and shitpost too. Call me a "bad person" all you want. idgaf.
I donno man, I'm no authority on morals but all things being equal I'd rather be around someone who doesn't share their girlfriend's sexts with their buddies.
Yes but this clearly wasn't about that. If it had been he'd just screenshotted that part and focused on that. But he's a weirdo so he screenshotted 5 years of content, anything that could remotely offend anybody, to make the maximum amount people mad.
Fuck that. Why do I need to be better? I don't give 2 shits about virtue signalling. I don't have to convince the world that I'm a good person, I know my own virtues and I know that I am; so I'm allowed to joke about horrific shit all the fuck I want.
All of this performative outrage from people is silly. You're not a bad person just because you like dark humor or shitposting.
You're not a bad person just because you like dark humor or shitposting.
This is absolutely true.
Why do I need to be better? I don't give 2 shits about virtue signalling. I don't have to convince the world that I'm a good person, I know my own virtues and I know that I am; so I'm allowed to joke about horrific shit all the fuck I want.
This is the part that makes you a bad person no one wants to be around.
This is the part that makes you a bad person no one wants to be around.
Again. Wrong. Plenty of family and friends, and a whole region of my state who come to me for advice on cnc related shit, so you missed the mark there too.
Only people who avoid me are well...people like you, who think you need to "display" how good of a person you are. Most normal people understand humor and aren't perpetually offended. Go touch some grass and meet some people outside for once. The majority of people on Lemmy and Reddit are not what the world would consider 'normal'.
Do you believe someone can't be internally motivated to encourage and uplift their peers, or at the very least feel guilt when they laugh at someone's expense?
Just wondering because I was like that: I told racist jokes, had plenty of similar friends, thought trans people were fooling themselves, and anyone who challenged me was pretending to be offended. I was obviously fine because I had good life.
Then I got older, met more people, learned more stories and when my old friends made fun of the new ones, I felt off about it. Decided I would rather hang out with the people who accepted everyone, made me feel good, and were still funny, just in a different way.
I still feel awful about the things I said and did and kinda wish I had noticed the signs sooner. While I was embraced by one group, I was being excluded from others and didn't even know it.
Look at this red neck hick over here drinking cheap beer who things he's a god because people tolerate him enough to use him for his tiny island of knowledge around cnc machines.
The only line of work he can maintain because the machine doesn't judge him for his horrendous stench and ogre like appearance.
Can I ask if you are part of a group that regularly gets belittled, made fun of, or generally disrespected? Do you embrace those jokes and stereotypes that are at your expense and laugh along with them such as "That is TOTALLY us! We are crappy just like that meme says!"?
My question is not contextualized against the original example in this thread. You're welcome to create your own line of questions to them if you like.
Even if we put aside the poor taste jokes and insults, sharing private conversations like what OP said his friend did is wrong and especially shitty since their purpose was to mock the other person
You don't have to prove anything to anyone, but you have a choice to mock / belittle other people and their issues or not to. You may get repercussions for joking about sensitive topics like these people did, but that's not really the point.
There are no prizes for choosing not to use dark humor beyond personally knowing you may have spared someone a little bit of suffering. If that matters to you, take it into consideration. If it doesn't, that's fine too... I just advise you to remember your choice, why you took it and observe how it makes you feel and what it makes you become.
And there are all kinds of shades of gray here, too. You can joke around once in a while if you want to, but extreme attitudes tend to cause extreme consequences.
And just to be clear, I'm not claiming to be an example of anything. I used to be the dudes Derek hung out with. Hell, i still am if you catch me on a bad day. Just sharing what I feel those decisions taught me.
I really thought this was going to be a satire post about the Yemen bombing Signal chat group leak based off the reddit title.
I was inspired to post this story in light of recent events.
Thank you for your service.
I don't blame you, thought the same and already seen a few today.
It's a good post though, relevant but not another post about the same damn thing lol
There's a lot of overlap with this and the leak.
Honestly I see correlation between this, the Trump Locker room talk, the Blizzard and Riot sexual harassment cases, etc.
same
edit: pawb.social user spotted
If the contents of my friends' group chat got leaked... people would just think we're fucking idiots, not terrible people.
Good work, Derek. Be better, losers in that chat.
I think that's obtuse, comedy has no limits: As long as you don't act upon uncomfortable / morally reprehensible ideas you joke about, you aren't any worse or better than if you had never joked about it. I would argue that exposing a bunch of people for what they joke about with no evidence that they've actually done something wrong is far worse than joking about offensive subjects. (one has zero negative affects, the other has many)
(I must say I disagree completely with that guy sharing messages from his girlfriend- that piece is very weird and a total breach of trust)
Keep in mind the source of this story. The author has every reason to describe the stuff on their group chat sound tame, so if it sounds bad, it's probably 3 times worse than that.
My impression from the original post was that kind of stuff was what drove most of the fallout. Leaked off color memes aren't going to ruin people's relationships, but leaked shit talk or breaches of someone else's privacy will.
shit talk and leaking messages is pretty bad, but that's really common these days unfortunately. I wonder how frequently texts like that are shared between female group chats. Depends on the person, and the group, but they are just more connected.
Speaking ill of someone not present to defend themselves is commonly in bad tastes, imo. Commonality of occurrence certainly doesn’t make it any less wrongful. I don’t think it’s a gender specific issue based on the story being about guys doing this.
i'm not saying it is, but from what i understand women tend to have a more cohesive social group, and tend to talk about things between them a lot more, so it would reason that there is a larger chance of stuff like this breaking out into that conversation.
Men just don't really talk about their personal lives all that much. And when they do it's usually shitposting.
to be clear, i would generally agree with this, unless it's understand to be venting/not seriously considered. It might be weird in the latter half, but it's a lot less rude if it's an inside joke specifically among a group of people.
and to be fair, if we're going full gender difference analysis, i think guys are a lot more likely to have a group chat like this, than women, so there's that.
If the public got to hear first hand all the black humor that goes on in the EMS field, society might further collapse.
Everyone on here is an insufferable twat.
How do you know that?
Because they're a fucking idiot, duh.
Easy, by having an inflated ego and a holier than thou attitude! 👍
derek is still a cunt though. If you join and find shit you don't like the first thing you should do is confront people. Either derek just likes causing people problems (and is a problematic individual) or he is not very bright and thinks that everything people say must be 100% true and serious.
I would not ever want to be friends with derek, that's for sure.
Derek is a decent person, so you don't have to worry about that.
yeah idk call me schizo all you want but i'm not huge on being friends with someone willing to drop everything to make me look the worst fucking person possible.
Derek did literally everything possible to cause fallout here, he really didn't need to go that far.
It's not hard to not be a shit person. That includes in private.
Derek did nothing wrong.
derek still did a shitty thing though. Regardless of how you look it.
How would you feel if you invited a few people to your home and then found out one of them secretly recorded audio the entire time? That’s the equivalent of screenshotting messages in a small group chat.
Unless you were literally planning crimes, the actual content of the conversation is irrelevant to the principle.
If, in my home me and my friends are sharing sensitive info about past relationships and other actions that can embarrass or hurt people, then exposing that is for the best. I mean where is the limit, if you're invited to a chat where they're massively racist and sexist, do you think that deserves to be exposed or do you just keep everyone's dirty secrets no matter what?
idk i'd probably leave, and if anybody ever asked me about i'd say i didn't like it. If i saw concerning behavior i would probably de-associate from those specific people. Not grenade an entire friend group over it, that's extra.
It's not my place to manage friend group politics.
If I see concerning behavior, I feel the need to say something because it's concerning. More girls will be embarrassed, more people could be exploited, it's not ok. I feel like seeing that, knowing you can do something, and choosing not to is pretty close to condoning it. It's not about friend group politics; there are people outside the friend group who are being passed around in that without their knowledge or consent, and that's not ok. I wouldn't care if it was just guys with dark memes.
Doing literally nothing when you see shitty behavior is almost as bad as the shitty behavior itself. Stop letting people you know get away with being pieces of shit - call them out. Ignoring it simply enables more people to ignore it, and the behavior slowly becomes more and more socially acceptable.
Using your same metaphor, if you came to another person's house and all they did was shit on their family, and then make dark jokes about killing them - is it all fun and games until something bad happens?
There are lines. You don't know what Derek saw.
But apparently it was so bad that a lot of people are really disgusted at the core group.
that's true, but judging by this thread people are also really sensitive about this kind of shit, so it wouldn't take very much for people to get pissed off like this.
Yeah, I'm one of those people. I have this apparently strange sensitivity to people sharing intimate photos of others without their consent or knowledge. Feels very exploitative. I'm just one of those people who doesn't like to sit back and let people hurt others like that for the lols of a group chat.
weird that you mention sharing explicit photos, because that's something that didn't happen. If we're to believe OP, that is.
Flip side: how would you feel if you shared your most vulnerable, intimate moments with one trusted person, only to realise that you've been recorded, shared around and commented on in a group chat full of acquaintances?
Can you see how Derek just delivered karmic justice?
I’m not saying it’s not awful, but I still think that publicly telling everyone is inappropriate. Derek basically did the same thing as them.
So it's okay for the group to bully people, but not for Derek to expose it? Weird line, definitely a red flag...
yeah but half of those were previously recorded, the worst thing in that chat is probably the text messages from the one dude specifically. Maybe making fun of people behind their back? But it really depends on how that went down, could be primarily for venting it's hard to say without having concrete examples. So i'm giving the benefit of the doubt on that one.
If I had to explain some of my in-group chats, it would be complicated and awkward, but not life-destroying.
I think my saved memes are 50/50 funny and concerning
The thing is, on Lemmy these are pretty normal... but for my very conservative grandma who hardly understands what a lesbian is...
You just concentrated 4 top tier shitposts into a single comment.
Im pretty sure that pipeline meme is depicting my nibling.
What's a nibling?
Gender nuetral term for offspring of my sibling.
Thank you!
Not to disrespect if that's what your relative prefers, but nibling is actually the gender neutral for niece/nephew. Sibling is already gender neutral as sister/brother are the gendered terms.
that's what they said, offspring of sibling
Ah misread it. Thanks!
Did you just "actually" me without reading my comments? Go back and try again, this time assume I used the exact words I meant to use.
Yeah I misread it, I'm not sure such an aggressive response was warranted but thank you for letting me know.
What’s the first one?
Scissoring (a common sesbian lex position)
...in movies
They wouldn’t LIE on movies, Higgs.
But why the Bible idk what reference?
Biblically accurate angles are nightmare fuel.
Angels described in the bible aren't people with pretty bird wings. They are oscillating, intersecting ribbons of eyes and feathers, pulsing and shifting and glowing.
Here is an example:
Alright, thanks!
A reference to the „biblically accurate angel“ meme, which is a bit hard to describe so I recommend just looking it up at seeing the pictures to get the reference
Well.
Depends on how fash the US turns for me
Me and my buddy have the nuke thing going. Mutually assured destruction 😎
just dont admit to them?
Oh no. The consequences of my own actions have come back to haunt me
I once had a group chat that got leaked. There's a possibility that it may have involved some light treason.
Well there's always money in the banana stand.
Ah yes, "cocksucker" as the first insult to come to mind, the sign of a good person
Why is "cuntlicker" not also a common insult? #equalrights
They should both be high compliments imo
I agree, you cocksucking cuntlicking fatherfucker.
I‘d say fatherfucker is still derogatory - after all, it’s still incest. Fatherhugger? Manhugger?
Well, I don't think Motherfucker should be considered derogatory.
I don't think incest is implied. Most fathers of 2 kids are Motherfuckers.
You are completely right
If there was a Olympics on it, I want to excel at cuntlicking.
what about it?
It implies that for a man, sucking cock (a legitimate sexual act for any gender) is an insult because that would make him gay. So Homophobic.
imo the pejorative connotation of that word, and homophobia generally, is ultimately rooted in misogyny
Man, I love cocksuckers I'd get me one of those
Dam I thought it was just a thing boring white ppl say. Imma used that retort.
Or you’re Swearingen from Deadwood. /s
I think I know where he got his name now
ok?
So what if i just argued that "cocksucker" just meant that you would suck someones cock if you got you something. I.E. you're easily bribed/manipulated. As far as i know, that's how most people use it.
That's literally the implication like 99% of the time. If you wanted to insult someone for being gay, you would just call them a removed or something lmao. No need to mince words at that point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_(slang)#Cocksucker
Just learn a bit before bothering others with educating you. History matters, the way that this slur has been used historically and presently, is mostly homophobic.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
to be clear, the wiki page you explicitly linked literally say it has a historical connotation, and the primary example it lists is from checks notes 53 years ago.
I'm going to hazard a guess that the sentiment has probably changed, a little bit. Since 1972. 1972 to be clear, was 8 years after the passing of the civil rights act. It's a bit of a different time period now.
anyway point is, i'm not convinced anybody cares about using this as a homophobic slur anymore.
it's whatever, that's how the internet is lol. This thread has been more than amusing for me thus far.
"Don't be a bigot" = dystopian future
Sound logic
Mate whenever you need to copy and paste fragments of your comments into other comments you look like a proper tool
"Far-left" and "Democrat" do not belong in the same sentence, ignoramus. Get educated. You can actually read, presumably. Deprogram yourself. You can actually do it. If I could do it at 12, you can do it today
I think you're getting caught up in the state being abusive and controlling to it's citizens (as Dump is doing now) and society self-regulating itself for it's own benefit (something that happens in all social groups) as being one and the same. Just because someone calls out another person's bad behaviour, that does not equate to supporting a dictatorial, or similarly controlling, leadership.
I think you need to work on expanding your political theory into more dimensions
Theory? It's just vibes-based politics with these people. They don't actually think lol.
Your comment is good btw; I'm not attacking you
Lmao my man here thinks that the American democratic party is leftist, that's hilarious.
First of all, screw the Democrats they are not left wing. They are center right shitlibs, with a few milqtoast standouts like Bernie and AOC.
Second. You correctly look at democrats and see they are just Republicans lite, but your mistake is in thinking that going further left leads to greater power to the state to curtail speech, thought, and action. The left wants liberation. Economic and social. The power of government to celurtail speech is not liberation, it's oppression.
What have far left (or far right, or even centrist) politics got to do with it? This is about what's socially acceptable. Yes that feeds into politics and left/right/centre opinions, but I'm not discussing politics (nor was the person you replied to). Which ties in with my first comment that you're combining politics with social issues erroneously.
Ultimately abuse is, abuse, is abuse, no matter how you dress it up.
🥱
Where do they say that they want microphones listening to people? Just because someone doesn't like some ways of talking, doesn't mean that they want 1984-style surveillance of everyone.
Are u OK dude? Take a ride, go to a park or something, breath air. Your mental health is more important than whatever your podcaster tells you.
Calm yourself, man. You seem a little bit emotional there. How on earth do you presume to know my political affiliations when you don't even know which side of the fucking planet I'm on? Get a grip.
Which one?
its because hes submissive. its a power thing not a gay thing
That's still degrading to fellators.
And idk if I'd say it's a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I'd say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
find me people who suck cock that actually give a fuck about other people calling people cocksuckers and we can talk.
nobody is arguing that sucking cock is submissive??? The argument is that being a cocksucker is a submissive thing.
Or you trolling? Or are you actually serious?
its still at the end of the day giving pleasure to another. giving the key word: power thing. its the same atmosphere as bootlicker
If you think going down on someone is only a submissive act you haven't gone down on someone long enough, or teased them enough.
thats not what i think im explaining the insult
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
im comparing an insult to bootlicking. jesus christ you people really feel like arguing over absolutely nothing
Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
pussyfucker isnt an insult ive ever heard but motherfucker is
cocksucker reminds me of the prison mentality of making someone your bitch so thats where im getting the power play from
i mean yeah, pussyfucker if you used as an insult would be quite a weird insult to throw, but it would work i suppose.
Motherfucker is also in the same vein like the other commenter suggested.
So, if you were to replace 'cocksucker' with 'towelhead', slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This 'power thing' you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
im sorry are we equating cocksucker, and the n word to be on the same level of offensive slur?
Too lazy to write two separate responses? I'll try!
"Don't be a bigot" = dystopian future
Sound logic.
Oh shit, that's the same message, guess you will have to read it twice, maybe that way it will get through to you.
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler You can be better, reflect on your bigotry and grow as a person. :::
He could have also said "vaginalicker" but he didn't, he used a well known homophobic slur. Also, if he wanted to say submissive he could have used well known submissive insults.
literally nobody says vaginalicker though? that's just not the commonly understood variant of "cocksucker"
I love how the government is now just assholes in a shitty group chat.
To narcissists, everything is someone else's fault.
Is the person who made the comments a narcissist, yes. Is the person who screen shorted it and shared it also a narcissist, absolutely.
"Hmmm should I expose all the offensive photoshops and derogatory things they did said about specific people?" No that's not narcissist by itself.
They hurt everyone else involved intentionally do to a sense of self richeousness. It's a textbook definition of narcicism.
If someone calls the person they are going through a breakup with a self richeous dingbat who likes to tear down everyone around them in a private chat it's not a nice thing to do. It also didn't hurt that person until Derek brought it to their attention in an attempt to hurt the speaker while upsetting/hurting the person who was called names. Especially digging up things from years ago. These people aren't running for office, they are kids dealing with life in a place of privacy. The number of people I've heard call soneone a little dicked asshole who isn't good in bed is around 50. Never once would I think spreading that information to them or their friends group would be for the greater good. The person is hurt and lashing out. It's often best to let them recover and sort out their own situation. If they were making plans to harm someone that's another story, but that isn't what happened here it appears.
At the point of sharing photos and Photoshopping someone to ridicule them, this isn't an offhand comment said in frustration. This is planned and executed ridicule and mockery. He's exposing them because he thought their "friends" should know who they are and what they are doing. Not for the intent of "hurting everyone else involved intentionally due to a sense of self righteousness". Whether you agree with what he thought or not, it's not narcissism (by itself).
It's also super bizarre that you want privacy for them when they are fucking sharing photos (the context reading they were private) and sharing "raunchy texts". Where was the privacy for their victims huh? They deserve what they got.
i mean, we also don't know what they are. It could be really bad, but it could also be harmless shitposting among the community.
You can look at the descriptors they chose to use, and that's very likely playing it down big time. I'm betting it was extremely bad.
yeah, but we also don't know what they are posting, so it's equally shitty to assume that what they are posting is substantially bad.
Though assuming by the fallout, it seems like it was pretty bad? But then again i've seen friend groups break up over smaller shit.
I don't know about you, but I am very reluctant to insult others, even in private conversations, even if they might deserve it
I always try to approach things constructively, because in the end, those patterns and thoughts bleed out into the world and your behaviour
And do keep in mind, even from the poster's side of the story, it sounds pretty darn bad, and people have a tendency to downplay their side's wrongdoings and elevate the other side's. Chances are, it was probably quite bad
If there's people in my life that go around talking badly about other like that, even in private.. yeah, I'd want to stay the hell away from them too. It's just a massive warming sign, and you're going to be the target sooner or later. And you don't want a coordinated group acting in bad faith against you
I thought this was going to be satire about the Atlantic editor being accidentally included in war room group chats. Lol.
Derek sounds like a real one. That poster lacks so much situational awareness they'd fall into an open manhole like in a cartoon.
I have had this exact talk with my kids repeatedly and probably will again ''the internet is a PUBLIC place, if you wouldn't do or say things you wouldn't be comfortable doing in the quad at school or in the middle of Walmart, DON'T do it online."
Depends on context. Maybe I'm not reading the OP right, but if it's in the context of "yo guys what do I say" it's different from "yo guys look how desperate she is lmao"
If you're ever concerned that your private messages will get leaked, why send it? That seems like a you issue for trusting them.
I can think of several, including the one being described in the original post
Seems like the finger should be pointed at you for being so naive and trusting someone so blindly?
And reading the post, you telling me if OP was sending nudes of his girlfriend to a group chat, Derrick is the asshole here?
Yeah alright.
Yeah that's my line. Something someone told you in confidence is a shit thing to make fun of them for, forwarding it to friends is another level.
Derek's lame but they were shit too
Nah fuck that.
If your comment was so bad that a person you both trust and respected was like, "WTF" to expose it, that's on you.
The whole meToo movement is based on this. Just "locker room" talk to some, but deeply disgusting sexual harassment from a small group and behavior to the other 90%.
I meant that the guys in the chat were scum for for sharing their SO dms with each other.
Agreed. Was referring to the messages their SO's sent them they then talked in the chat about
That's scum
Isn't that what Derek just did to him? Feels bad I guess ;D
I text my friends offensive shit too, but imo the only reason you can consider them funny is because it's the exact opposite of who i am. Like i don't even really swear irl. But shit like forwarding private messages or bullying real people is so disgusting to me. I often talk to girls from tinder, and they sometimes send me screenshots of people from tinder to make fun of them. Instant turn off and block.
If you're sharing it privately, that's your true self, the version of you unfiltered and able to avoid the consequences of actually saying it.
Not if, but when it gets exposed by a Derek, will people look at you differently?
You just discovered something important about yourself.
This is an over generalization. How can you support that this is true other than for yourself alone?
Sometimes the unfiltered things I discuss in private are for the purpose of getting feedback. A brainstorming space without any of the regular inhibitions censoring free thought. I’m not looking for affirmation, but genuinely want to see what the unfiltered feedback would be, and am ready to change my option on a dime.
Take this to the next level: you do this in your own mind / imagination before you speak. You think things that you don’t say. So is everything in your mind, even things you think are wrong and choose not to express, your true self? And you should be ashamed of shameful thoughts?
Also what do you even mean by “true” self? If I act differently around different groups of people, which one is true?
Gonna share this again
This commenter said it best:
This is a terrible take. Obviously, I can say something offensive to a friend that they would find funny exactly because they know I don't mean it seriously.
Saying that is some kind of "reflection of my true self" is honestly just dumb. I'm saying the offensive thing because I find it offensive myself, and because I would never say it to someone I don't trust to understand that.
Wow this must be the biggest group text leak ever.
Still not sure whether OP is Pete Hegseth.
Pete Hegseth, is that you?
It also feels like something Kavenaugh would have been into.
Thought at first that its a meme about the signal groupchat that was leaked currently and then read its discord and its 1 year old.
I suddenly feel better about my group chats, it's all gay memes, positivity and anti-capitalist revolution.
Same, are we in the same group chat??
Naw, I only just got my pals into Lemmy. Glad to know there are other havens out there, though.
Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism
Shitposting is just pretending to be stupid/racist/shitty for laughs/attention, right? Pretty low form of humor, if you ask me (no one did), but I'm also guessing a lot of shitposters aren't just pretending.
I like a laugh as much as the next person, but we can't sit around going "Why are people in this country so fucking stupid/racist/shitty?" while simultaneously elevating "acting" stupid to some high form of humor. You see how that's counterproductive, right?
“Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.” - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
“Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.” - Jason Garrett-Glaser
I don't think it is that people are saying shitposting is a higher form of humor, but that it requires a level of trust that you know the people you're shitposting with know you and know you're joking. Lack of that leads to your second quote.
That's totally fair, and I agree with you. I probably shouldn't have used the phrase "high form of humor". I more meant "worthwhile form of humor". Even that doesn't really encapsulate what I mean.
I don't know. It can be hard to separate brainrot from intelligent comedy, and I laugh at both, myself. I'm not the comedy police or anything, I just don't want to end up here:
That's me! Cringe and proud.
We become who we pretend to be.
Great failure of Pauline (🤡🤡🤡🤡) discourse: actions don't matter, only faith. Bitch nothing in your head matters, only what you do is consequential. Motherfucker destroyed Christianity before it even had a chance get started
In the 90s, calling yourself a flat earther was a opportunity to have a fun and yet silly conversation about belief in science. During that time, both people KNEW that the earth was round. It was an exercise in creativity and played straight for laughs.
But somewhere in the 2000, some people didn't realize the satire. They actually BELIEVED in it.
There's a line of shitposting like with anything.
Shitposting is an art. It's satire.
Then there's actual shitty people who don't realize that the good shit posts harm nobody. Where shitty people posting disgusting racist things under the guise of Shitposting are too stupid to understand the nuance.
This commenter said it best:
I might get cooked for this but it's just not.
As a person who has been shit posting for at least a decade at this point, 99% of shit posting is either just saying something stupid on purpose or being a cunt to someone.
"Shitposting is an art" is some shit a dweeb says online to make themselves look interesting because "I like to say dumb shit for attention" sounds a lot worse.
Like sure, sometimes it's funny to be a cunt to someone online (within reason) but let's not pretend it's something profound.
Furthermore, the fact that it's not something profound but just dumbass behavior done for laughs is the reason it can be misunderstood by honest dumbasses.
I'll defend shitposting here, because I think you're simplifying it a bit too much.
Shitposting is so much more than "saying dumb stuff for shits n' giggles". First of all, as with anything else, there are good and bad shitposts. A good shitpost usually contains a solid undertone of irony or sarcasm. An important part of the humour is not just in "being dumb" it's about using a statement that is dumb in a very specific way in combination with a specific context in order to create something funny.
Furthermore, a good shitpost uses exaggeration in a good way. The reader should preferably be "lured into" the post, not realising it's a shitpost, before the notch is turned to 11 revealing that it was a shitpost. This adds an extra layer of humor and social commentary: The fact that the post at first seems believable forces you to recon with what kind of things you would actually believe someone could write. It also makes the target of the humor clear.
Shitposting may not be high art, but calling it "just being a cunt to someone" is missing the mark. "Just being a cunt to someone" is exactly that, and it's not shitposting.
-fig 1 dweeb online tries to make it deeper than it is
Legit, what do you want my response to be to that.
My whole argument was that internet people think shit posting is something profound but it's just shitposting.
Maybe I should have posted a crying wojak saying it so it's Real Shitpost™ Art certified.
To be fair, I didn't expect you to respond at all, and really just wanted to point out that calling a stranger you know nothing about a "dweeb" in response to something they wrote is a prime example of "just being a cunt to someone". You didn't need to respond, but you chose to do so by being a cunt.
Regardless, I think you missed some of the sarcasm in what I was writing (which, in hindsight, isn't very clear). My point isn't that shitposting is some form of high art. It's that it's a form of humor that amounts to more than saying provocative stuff or being a cunt. At it's best, a shitpost can even contain some social commentary in the same way as caricatures can. Of course, as with all other humor, there are plenty of bad shitposts out there too, which are often just trolls trying to stir up shit.
Isn't this a group chat between friends though, so its not an open community where actual idiots are free to just join it.
I play a lot of games that include genocide, like Rimworld, Stellaris, Drox Operative 2, Factorio. That doesn't mean I am actually going to go out and commit one.
One, nah. Two, you missed the ex getting her privacy violated by OP sharing her texts in the chat.
Tbh this whole thing lacks sufficient context. The guy is probably diminishing what he did, so may well be a bellend. But we don't really have enough information.
Don’t talk shit about people behind their back. It always has a way of getting out because it’s clearly how you feel when their is no filter in place.
Can't have my group chats leaked if I don't have any!
Thanks for that comparison :(
Sorry, I'm 100% sure you are a much better person than Musk.
Friends can be hard.
I saw your comment and though of this meme I saw in a thread about the Signal group chat about bombing people in Yemen.
I would love for my 40k groups five year group chat to be leaked. My theories about Alpharius is valid I tell you.
Nononono, dont go! We haven't even gotten to the part with Valdor, and the Emperor yet.
I want to hear it!
OK. We start at the beginning. 10000 years before our current date, a boy is born in Anatolia that will one day become known as The Emperor... Wait perhaps we should start 30 million years ago since you also should know about the war in heaven, the fall of the C'tan and the fate on a race known as the Necrotyr.
The world needs more Dereks
I love all the comments who hate Derek, obviously projecting their own shitty behavior.
What a tell.
Leaking PMs between you and an ex is a dick move 😵
I sure hope Derek wears a cape.
Derek sounds like a cool guy.
derek sounds like a dick.
What you do in private does not necessarily reflect who you are in public. And who you are in public, does not necessarily reflect who you are in private either.
Realistically I don't think we have enough information to judge fairly. The person is probably minimising what they did, and if that is the case may well have deserved it. But we don't actually know what was said.
that is true, but i think this is a definite "everybody sucks" type of post.
I'm also not sure that derek needed to leak this either, especially going back like 5 years, that's pretty unhinged. Even a "yeah i don't like those guys i joined the group chat and it was 💀" is going to be enough to clue most people in.
That is possible too, it depends what was said.
yeah, it could be literally any flavor. It's hard to know form the context provided.
This was not private. This was a group of assholes laughing behind their friends’ backs at their expense. It was secret, but not private.
That is a very pedantic response.
But makes a very big difference. Talking bad things about someone publicly is not okay, and the whistleblower is doing the right thing. Well, mostly. It's not really cool that now the private messages are shared with even more people!
Talking about anything privately is a private discussion and as such, not a huge problem. Sharing someone's private messages with a group with more than two or three members is already public to an extent.
was the entire "secret" group chat dedicated to making fun of people though? That's the thing we don't know, it just seems like a fairly active, long running group chat, with a number of distasteful posts made over time.
If you have a secret group chat where you make fun of your friends behind their backs, then you’re an awful piece of shit. I don’t care if it’s not solely dedicated to making fun of people. If you do it enough that your friend group ostracizes you when they find out, then you deserve to be ostracized. Why are you defending this behavior? Do you do this?
bro i make fun of my friends in public. I don't talk to people unless it's a group. Simple as.
If it's ok for me to be harsh with people in public, i see no reason to stop being harsh with them in private, assuming it meets those boundaries.
Then it’s not behind their back. That’s the bad part here. It’s not making fun of your friends, it’s secretly making fun of your friends. That’s the difference between “all in good fun” and “being an asshole”.
lmfao what a fucking excuse of a reason. i hope you know i hate you. not hyperbole. i hope everyone else knows i hate you too. like genuinely, and actually; blatantly being a terrible person like you are is a large part of what is wrong with the world and i despise every single one of you chucklefucks that inches us ever further away from common decency, day by day. life isnt some fucking game.
do you recognize you’re doing olympic level mental gymnastics throughout these comments in order to make the people you identify with in the internet story the good guys or are you just incredibly dense and/or like fucking with people for kicks?
Calm down and look in the mirror. You're part of the problem
no actually, i’m done sitting and acting like that sort of shit is acceptable, no thanks.
paradox of tolerance demands you completely and decisively shut these fucks down before they takeover your society with their shitty ass rhetoric of hate. i’d rather it begin and end here on a dinky little internet forum than 15 years down the line in another gettysburg. i won’t aid and abet in the breakdown of common norms and decency, as you so kindly suggested.
Paradox of tolerance demands nothing, it is a concept that suggests some level of intolerance is required to protect overall tolerance. I don't think it even applies here since those guys weren't being intolerant, just despicable among themselves.
Methinks you picked that up as a buzzword to indicate and justify any time you think intolerance is called for, which is unnecessary in this case because they're just being vile assholes that you can choose to scorn.
nope. i know what i said and i meant it.
they start like this. then they become shitty, abusive incels in adulthood. then they vote for people like the cadre of neofascist in western politics rn.
the incel to fascist pipeline is real and dangerous. and i won’t act like those who fall down it are victims and not complicit monsters anymore.
Then you're just wrong, sorry sporto
bro holy shit i just stated my opinion and i'm being nuremberg'd now lmao.
TRUE
I agree with your sentiment, but common decency has never existed. I hope you realize that
this is a fair point, i don’t disagree. it’s valid to call me out on conflating ideas of common decency with absolute morality.
that said, there are certain things that if you do; definitely make you a bad person. i think to the recently viral tweet of the ivy league ethics & philosophy professor who was absolutely aghast at incoming students’ ideas of morality. it speaks to the problem in this thread.
Gonna share this again.
This commenter said it best:
my only disagreement is that unfortunately they’ve succeeded in pushing the overton window so hard that the ratio is actually much more controversial than the comment implies. if only every edgelord here read and seriously considered this person’s reply.
damn bro, that's crazy.
Unfortunately i will sleep well knowing that i don't engage in shitty behavior with people, and that i just simply do not care about shit like this that much.
i don't like anybody here, all of these people sound like assholes, some of them stuck up their own asses, others a bit too unfiltered for their own good. But we also don't know the full extent of the conversation and fallout from this, so who knows what actually happened.
Regardless if derek wanted to make the point that these people weren't great, he didn't need to leak messages, especially not 5 year old ones. He put as much effort as possible into destroying this friend group, and i wouldn't be surprised if this is regular behavior from him. People like that use it to their advantage, only to fuck over people later in their lives by doing the same shit lmao.
Anybody willing to without permission leak shit like is asking for trouble, legally or not.
Derek sounds like a snitch
Good. Don’t be an asshole to your friends behind their backs. That’s trashy behavior, and you deserve to lose your friends if you do it.
Nothing in the OP suggests that anyone was being an asshole to Derek in particular.
Oh, I don't think they're taking about Derek...
Well I apologize if I misunderstood
seriously jesus fucking christ what about this in particular is making it such a good litmus test to root out shitty people? they’re all just immediately, unironically, unabashedly identifying themselves in the comments here, just like that lmfao.
absolute trash is absolute trash ig.
Invasion of privacy, not cool
If you think someone is shit don’t screenshot a bunch of chats, just leave and tell people you saw stuff you didn’t like
What about the people on the group chat who were disrespecting other people's right to privacy by sharing private mesaages and pictures? It's cool when they do it?
It’s not cool when anyone does it
Tell those particular people. Maybe screenshot those particular messages as proof. But don’t publicly share everything.
See, you misunderstand. You must either be enraged that there was a snitch, or uphold them as a paragon of justice. There is no nuance on the internet. Silly person.
never admit to the group chat leaks.
Always be shitposting. They can never catch you offguard if you don't stop.
Shitposting is one thing. Without knowing what the war memes were, I can't say one way or another.
Sharing private chats from your girlfriend? Yeah, that's too far.
Whoa whoa whoa, but they said they didn't commit crimes by sharing nudes without consent! They're not that disrespectful!
i doubt the war memes were that bad honestly. There's been a lot of shitposting about it general, it's just that most people haven't seen it because it's not particularly common. The real question is what their actual opinion is.
Disappearing messages people!
My groups collective chats are more of a microcosm of meme culture at the given time, sort of a petri dish of various meme strains fighting for (limited) mental resources.
There’s always two group chats, one for everyone and one for the people you want to talk to. And if you think that doesn’t happen I have some bad news for you.
hah ! 😂
If my group chats got leaked they would just think we were all idiots who love vehicles and watching people get hurt or make really dark jokes.
Nothing really personal other than always posting really cringe crap and then tagging someone who we know it'll piss off and telling them that it reminded us of them.
Yeesh
i wouldn't have guessed that reading the comments of this would lead to blocking another lemmyworld user. it's amazing how much better a conversation can be when you get rid of the actual shit
Best part about Shitposting honestly.
There's the shitposters who post weird funny things and are here just having a laugh.
Then the awful mofos who think Shitposting means they can be their true selves and post offensive garbage under the guise of Shitposting. Then they get called out, get really offended/flip out because they didn't realize.
It's a great honey trap.
Derek getting mad laid now.
It's a good thing. Kind seeks kind. Don't be afraid to be who you are.
Normal people who don't do this: yeah that's weird.
Sus people: Hey that's not fair!
What is not fair? I just said kind seeks kind, you don't need people that aren't your kind. It's an easy way to figure out who isn't your kind. The leak, is a great way to communicate.
As OP said, he found quite some more people that wanted to join.
Are you 'Derek'?
Derek is the fucking GOAT
Good guy Derek
Group chat got leaked
Be careful who you trust and only post things online that you wouldn't mind everyone in your life seeing. Never trust the internet.
I would never feel bad about that, have you ever had girls show you their gcs? I'm traumatized
They called him brother that changes everything lol
This is a leave a guy in the middle of a desert moment.
LOL private chat with 8 people.
You don't even need a Derek, all you have to do is have one of the 8 perceive that they are being wronged. One's mate makes googly eyes at another, next thing you know, it's all public.
Never post anything anywhere if it ever getting out will fuck you.
Nothing is private and you should strive to be the kind of person that doesn't say shit about other people behind their backs.
Thought this was parity until I saw it was 1yr old
U
P
Wow. Derrick is a dirty pu--y. Screw you, Derrick, you don't even know us. This is why no one likes you, Derrick.
@TO: would you like being recorded while drunk? This is pretty much the same.
Sounds like the solution is not to be a asshole while drunk? Or not be drunk? Or not be there to get recorded?
Nobody forced you to do anything and take responsibility for your own actions.
fuck you derek
So shitposters were shitposting. Don't be bitches and act surprised when people are offended. Own that shit. It was meant to offend, that's what makes it funny. I'll join their discord and shitpost too. Call me a "bad person" all you want. idgaf.
Not so much a bad person as someone who vehemently opposes opportunities to be better.
Joking about those things does not make him any better or worse, it's comedy. Ending that behavior is not an opportunity to be better.
I donno man, I'm no authority on morals but all things being equal I'd rather be around someone who doesn't share their girlfriend's sexts with their buddies.
Yes but this clearly wasn't about that. If it had been he'd just screenshotted that part and focused on that. But he's a weirdo so he screenshotted 5 years of content, anything that could remotely offend anybody, to make the maximum amount people mad.
I'd say it's about that, because that is one of the things that group is about, the group this person wants to join.
Fuck that. Why do I need to be better? I don't give 2 shits about virtue signalling. I don't have to convince the world that I'm a good person, I know my own virtues and I know that I am; so I'm allowed to joke about horrific shit all the fuck I want.
All of this performative outrage from people is silly. You're not a bad person just because you like dark humor or shitposting.
This is absolutely true.
This is the part that makes you a bad person no one wants to be around.
Again. Wrong. Plenty of family and friends, and a whole region of my state who come to me for advice on cnc related shit, so you missed the mark there too.
Only people who avoid me are well...people like you, who think you need to "display" how good of a person you are. Most normal people understand humor and aren't perpetually offended. Go touch some grass and meet some people outside for once. The majority of people on Lemmy and Reddit are not what the world would consider 'normal'.
Do you believe someone can't be internally motivated to encourage and uplift their peers, or at the very least feel guilt when they laugh at someone's expense?
Just wondering because I was like that: I told racist jokes, had plenty of similar friends, thought trans people were fooling themselves, and anyone who challenged me was pretending to be offended. I was obviously fine because I had good life.
Then I got older, met more people, learned more stories and when my old friends made fun of the new ones, I felt off about it. Decided I would rather hang out with the people who accepted everyone, made me feel good, and were still funny, just in a different way.
I still feel awful about the things I said and did and kinda wish I had noticed the signs sooner. While I was embraced by one group, I was being excluded from others and didn't even know it.
I donno man, live your life the way you want.
Look at this red neck hick over here drinking cheap beer who things he's a god because people tolerate him enough to use him for his tiny island of knowledge around cnc machines.
The only line of work he can maintain because the machine doesn't judge him for his horrendous stench and ogre like appearance.
Can I ask if you are part of a group that regularly gets belittled, made fun of, or generally disrespected? Do you embrace those jokes and stereotypes that are at your expense and laugh along with them such as "That is TOTALLY us! We are crappy just like that meme says!"?
My question is not contextualized against the original example in this thread. You're welcome to create your own line of questions to them if you like.
Even if we put aside the poor taste jokes and insults, sharing private conversations like what OP said his friend did is wrong and especially shitty since their purpose was to mock the other person
You don't have to prove anything to anyone, but you have a choice to mock / belittle other people and their issues or not to. You may get repercussions for joking about sensitive topics like these people did, but that's not really the point.
There are no prizes for choosing not to use dark humor beyond personally knowing you may have spared someone a little bit of suffering. If that matters to you, take it into consideration. If it doesn't, that's fine too... I just advise you to remember your choice, why you took it and observe how it makes you feel and what it makes you become.
And there are all kinds of shades of gray here, too. You can joke around once in a while if you want to, but extreme attitudes tend to cause extreme consequences.
And just to be clear, I'm not claiming to be an example of anything. I used to be the dudes Derek hung out with. Hell, i still am if you catch me on a bad day. Just sharing what I feel those decisions taught me.
Whatever you choose, hope it's for the best.
the post literally says no nudes???? Are you dumb or stupid? I can't tell.
Post LITERALLY said they DID NOT do such a thing.