YSK: Browsing "ALL" at work might get you pulled into an office, even with NSFW off.
Why YSK: It appears several Lemmy Instances are flagged as suspicious and at least 1 instance intentionally using the name of ransomware. A couple of the big enterprise monitoring suites (Fortiguard, ZScaler) will flag your account and may end up with you being pulled into an office for an explanation, or worse.
TL;DR: Keep browsing to your local instance at work for now.
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Don’t use company computers for personal stuff, it all gets logged and can be used against you at the very least as evidence that you weren’t working come performance reviews.
It's fucking insane people don't know this in 2023.
Work computers are for work, and pretty much every employer monitors what you do on it.
I occasionally click on the little wether icon and see what the forecast looks like. Hope I don't get fired!
At my old job we had to research customers which frequently involved looking on Facebook and other sites. I was very intentionally not logged in, which probably wouldn't work now, and kept any and all searches to items that I could prove were related to a work item. It's insane that people don't follow that advice.
Things like weather will be fine unless you have an unreasonable boss/job.
But people should only use work computers the way they would if they knew the entire company was watching a live stream of their desktop.
Even for working from home, I put my work laptop on the isolated guest wifi because I don't trust them the same way they don't trust me.
Depends heavily on where you work. My employer don't track what we use the computers for (of course there's a 'TOS' of sorts which says that it's company property and should only be used for company stuff) but as long as you are at least somewhat reasonable on what you use the system for it's fair play. Things like checking your personal email and occasional visit to lemmy/whatever your social media poison is doesn't raise any flags as long as you get the job done and that's it. Of course you can't install anything on the system but as long as a browser session on incognito mode is enough and it doesn't harm your duties, while technically forbidden, no one really cares.
And yes, I know this for sure, as I'm one of the guys who enforces the policies for our gear. YMMV.
Good advice always has its exceptions. But in general you should never use a work device for personal use because it's very easy for that information to be either compromised and/or used against you.
My personal guidance is "if you don't own the device, pretend the owner is looking over your shoulder" it's incredibly easy for them to install keyloggers and trackers remotely and silently.
And in here that's very much illegal thing to do without prior consent from the employee and even with permission it's requlated on what you can do with the data. Of course companies are permitted to restrict traffic and otherwise limit what users can do on the devices they're given to, but it's still illegal to spy individual users and what they do. Strong(ish) worker rights are a very nice thing to have around.
Then your job probably isn't that serious then like others where they get monitored.
Intelligent reasoning! Remarkable!
Here’s another take: it’s all down to the laws you let your law-makers write. If I quit my my boss is not allowed to read through or keep my account active - in their system.
And the same goes for company wifi if you have to log in with your own username.
Even if you don't, there's plenty of different ways to identify a user on company wifi.
For example, have your cellphone named "Stephano's iPhone"? Narrows it down to the Stephanos working in range of that access point.
Classic Stephano
I usually used a VPN if I was on the WiFi. Made me feel better even if I'm just browsing memes
Connecting to an "unauthorized" VPN is against IT policy for some companies, especially if your job involves handling sensitive data.
I trust my company's wifi network a lot more than a free VPN app.
Different threat models. There’s the threat of being punished or fired by workplace surveillance;
Separately, there’s also the threat of some unknown third-party snooping on your data for whatever other reason (identify fraud, etc).
The post discusses the first and I’d argue that’s more compelling for most people, but the second is also valid.
RiseupVPN, calynx and protonvpn are pretty great and trustworthy. 2 first ones are non profit based on donations only. And proton VPN is well audited (but require account while the first two doesn't)
Cloudflare’s free VPN is trustworthy and very fast. You don’t get to pick server location though so it is only useful for cases like this.
If the company owns the endpoint there's lots they can do to monitor your traffic even with a VPN. For phones if you sign in to work mail with your phone and allow them to manage your device just assume they have control of it now.
Work computers are by definition not personal devices.
And refusing to install your company's software on your work computer is a good way to get fired for cause.
But some people have the option to access work email, etc on their personal devices, as long as they install their company's monitoring/security software.
Depends on your work. I agree with you, but for example my work is different.
Yes, we have managed devices as well, but my department specifically went for unmanaged devices. Just plain old laptops. Install whatever OS you want, do whatever you want. I only have the base windows install on there for some compatibility reasons, I mostly just use PopOS.
And we're also explicitly allowed to browse private content - as long as the work gets done and we stay in budget, do whatever.
If you are on their network they can see what you are doing. At the end of the day, the business will protect itself.
Do what you want at your own risk. But never assume that any company is on your side.
This is so simple, whatever policy they have if something goes wrong they will try their best to find a scape goat.
Why do you people have phones with gigabytes of daya for?
Additionally, do your best not to be part of the company where you might get into trouble for just using internet.
Of course they can. That's why I usually use my phone as a hot spot when I'm browsing private stuff ;)
Do the other departments use managed devices? IT might get pretty mad if your department went over them and bought computers themselves, lol.
It's not optimal from a security and legal point of view.
IT specifically has an option for unmanaged devices, exactly for developers like me :)
Alright. Seems reasonable as long as the devices are sandboxed from the company network and resources.
They aren't, and our private phones are also connected to the network ;)
But then again, it's a fairly large organization vpn'd up over multiple locations, with server farms in different VLANs and so on, so the network we usually access when working are in a different subnet.
I do know what you mean though - it really depends on what the company does. Prior, I worked at a company that developed and manufactured hardware cryptography devices - I learned proper security procedures there :) our 'actual work computers' weren't even connected to the Internet, and the unmanaged laptops accessed the same WiFi guests would access that, well, only went to the Internet. Just wpa2.
Why though‽ Most consumer routers even have a guest network enabled by default.
That's true, but an attack could probably cause a lot of damage to any company (especially a big one) without proper security. Regardless of what they do.
Well at least you don't have to deal with ITs PC policies, which can get pretty annoying. Allowing any device to join the company network seems incredibly stupid though.
Let's just hope that none of your unmanaged machines get compromised.
At my previous company, only domain work computers could join the PC WiFi (with a certificate, so no passwords) and work smartphones could only join the work WiFi for mobiles.
Private devices and very limited amount of non domain computers were only allowed on the guest network and couldn't connect to any other.
The company didn't do anything special that needed extra security.
agreed with the point. However, lemmy might soon be the new reddit for information, asking questions, troubleshooting.
So I guess a solution for accessing lemmy for such resources on company computer without being flagged would be good, especially this gets a bit more complicated with the decentralized nature of the fediverse (multiple domains of lemmy)
Browsing personal sites, especially social media, on a work computer is insane
Insane? I wouldn't go so far, everybody has downtimes from time to time, unless you are doing something crazy... It is fine.
So why not using your personal phone instead?
Really depends on the place of work. I work in the IT of out company and my PC isn't monitored. My door is constantly open though and there are a lot of people passing. Me looking at the screen is normal and part of my work. Me looking at my phone is always seen as me not working.
Nah
Cool, good sources... Thank you!
Stay off company resources when using technology for personal use.
Just don't use a work computer for anything but work. Use your personal cell phone and don't use their wifi.
It constantly surprises me how many people use their work computers as as if it was a personal computer. They've got family pictures, shopping, browsing, socials, everything. I've tried mentioning before, in a roundabout way, but people really don't care. And then when they get laid off or quit then they're shocked as hell once the computer's remotely locked and wiped and then they make a big stink about how all of their stuff was on there. It's like what did you expect to happen.
My work phone is specifically partitioned to separate personal and work activities. I can't even copy and paste text between the two sides, they are so disconnected from each other. This is done specifically so people can use their work phone for personal business without cross-contamination.
I still refuse to use my work phone for anything but work. I only log into my personal accounts long enough to install/update a few apps from the Play Store that aren't allowed on the work side but are still useful (MS Teams, WhatsApp).
Part of that is not wanting to enter a 12 character password every time I want to do anything simple . But the other part is that I just don't want to mix my personal and work lives more than I have to.
The reason I used to use my work PC for online purchases/personal finances because the network at my employer was much more secure than my home network. But it was a smaller company back then, now that we're "corporate" (partnered a larger entity) I don't.
Porn, so much porn
I've literally never once seen porn on Lemmy despite everyone constantly talking about it.
You must have nsfw turned off there should be a check box in your options
I saw some not long after replying to you. I still feel like it's way less than people talk about though.
Or use VPN
Most corporate networks block vpn traffic.
I used to use a VPN on the work wifi and then they began blocking VPN’s. One day my VPN started continuously dropping and reconnecting while on their wifi. Absolutely within their right to do, they need to know what traffic is on their network in case of anything that breaks policy or is nefarious.
I haven't had the time, but I'd like to give Shadowsocks a go and see if that can break out of the vpn blockages.
The majority of my self-hosted services are vpn access only, and my phone is set to block non-vpn traffic so I notice in a hurry when my vpn drops out/can't connect.
/edit: I did give shadowsocks a go. It didn't get through unfortunately and it's password auth only, no key pairs or certificates. Got rid of it again.
Just don't
Or just use a VPN on the Wi-Fi
Why would people not just use their phones? I would never browse any social media on a work computer.
I had a lady in the marketing department open a ticket with us many years ago when ILoveYou was running rampant and we had blocked yahoo mail, gmail, etc on our corporate network and she was PISSED because "I need to access that for my other job!". Yes, she put that in the ticket. That was a brief discussion with her manager and a resume generating event for her.
Ironically I would have been happy to help her figure out a solution had she not been a complete and utter bitch about it. Instead she got her ass fired for misusing company resources. I suspect her boss was looking for an excuse, 'cause this woman was a 100% Karen stereotype.
"Resume generating event" - that took me a moment, but then I laughed
That only helps if you aren't on company wifi. Guess it's time to stop misusing the corporate wifi password I shouldn't have.
A VPN would be fine, no?
Most corps block vpn traffic, I know there are ways to "tunnel" traffic to get around this but I'm not very familiar with them
I use my own Internet for my phone. No point messing with work Internet unless necessary.
Right? I dont want the nerds at IT to find out where I get all my free porn.
Plot twist - the nerd in IT was just looking for some new sources for free porn
We are, the fucking suites that control management made us make machines that flag any cool websites :"(
We have a guy who isn't in IT who goes through Peoples' email and shit here, so I'm definitely steering clear of their internet traffic here.
That's insane and should not be possible
Employer email, employer network, etc.
Possible and legal, just a fuckin' scumbag thing to do. Real creepy when he jumps in on an email to reply to something you sent to someone else.
No, if he's not in IT it should not be possible - I don't know what email system you're using but this person should not have the access you're saying they do.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be technically possible (I'm a sysadmin, I know what's possible in a corporate environment), I'm saying your organization should not make it possible.
If he's in some leadership position I'd be looking for other employment and/or reporting that person to your corporate compliance officer if you have one.
Yeah, well. He's in admin, and I don't feel like searching for a new tenured position. I'll just skirt shit until he's gone. And by then, keep skirting shit anyway.
Your guy has got too much free time, should be made redundant.
... why?
Gotta have his fingers in everything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Exactly. Use the work equipment for work purposes and there is no issue.
This is the way. My work tends to block a lot of websites that aren't relevant to the job anyway.
Why do people use work computers anymore when cellphones exist?
I've worked a job that required using an app on my phone, and in order to install that app I had to give ROOT ACCESS and full remote control to the IT department and was subject to the same monitoring as when using a company desk or laptop. I just grabbed an older phone I had lying around and used that for work because I wasn't about to give complete remote access to the phone I actually used every day.
Why did the company not supply the phone to be used for company purposes?
They were cheap bastards and were forever "in the process of getting" new company phones for brand new hires like I was at the time.
Fuck that. Our company gives us phones because they know they're secure. And we don't use them for anything but work related apps. I still make all my phone calls from my personal or office phone
I say, "We," but that's not entirely true. There are a couple of jackasses that do everything on them, but I assume the company can see it of they want to. So, fuck that
This does not sound legal. What country are we talking about?
US. California, specifically.
It's ridiculous how we call ourselves the land of the free unless you want to bike to work, drive a small car, have privacy or do anything different/differently from everyone else is not ok here
Wait, your job required root access to your personal cell phone phone at all times? So if you were at home off the clock you were still restricted on your personal phone as to what websites you could view?
It's also a legal issue. If something happens legally that's work related and your phone becomes part of the discovery process someone would sift through your personal data
I mean that's one thing to have access as part of an investigation, but to have remote access to it 24/7 seems excessive.
If you are android, there is an app called Shelter that lets you create customized contained work profile inside which apps can be killed completely until you enable work profile again. This would usually be enabled by certain official app by your employer's IT policy, such as MS's Company Policy, so you don't normally have control over what app to put in the profile, but with Shelter you can pick and choose any app into the work profile freely. If you have other apps you don't trust, you can also use it to contain them too
I use a Pixel 1 for the same purpose. It's just a couple authentication apps in my case, but I still don't want their shit on my personal phone.
Not sure why they've got to use proprietary shit instead of just using standards. I even offered my own Yubikey.
Phone got small screen. Computer got big screen.
My work laptop just got replaced, and what's great is the dock that came with it. It only connects to my laptop thru a USB C. So. Now I unhook my laptop, and plug my phone into it, which uses Dex. It's like Samsung's own desktop OS. And I can use my big screens and keyboard and mouse
I also make sure my phone isn't using the network cable plugged into it and only use my own internet. I don't think it'd let me anyways
How do you like dexs? Would you consider using it as a daily driver? I mean not having a laptop at all.
Not really. It's okay for some just casual internet browsing and a few apps that are made for it, and I think you can use Office on it, but I've only used it to entertain myself at work. If you had access to a laptop or PC, you can plug a USB cable into any of the flagship Samsung phones and test it out.
Itd be nice if more people used it though, so itd get more support
If you're familiar with Linux at all, there are some versions you can put on a rooted Android phone, and use it like a Linux PC. I never tried it, but I know it was a thing about 10 years ago, and I'm sure it's still being worked on
I don't even connect to my work's wifi
See I'd connect, but it would be on a VPN the whole time.
They might work in a place that doesn't allow personal electronic devices (government, military, high-security site, etc.).
I worked for a small earmold company that made hearing aids and plugs. The PC I used had zero security. I decked it out with every possible imaginable tool to make my job easier, even had it where I could vpn in and do work from home, and while I didn't utilize this feature, the ceo's son did after I told him about it for a few weeks after I quit.
Our HR manager constantly asked for email counts each day, so I automated a spreadsheet for her. I set a webcam up in an office with a laser engraver so I knew when the staff would put molds down for engraving without being in the room. I had syncthing cloning directories and a virtual desktop. I'd often model blender models on lunch and sync them back to my nas. Sometimes I'd make custom things for the company, then 3D print them and bring them in the next day.
I had waaaasay too much power, though. I could go pick through the company samba server, look at anything, potentially delete everything. They kept backups on dated copies made on external drives and deleted everything four years old.
I'm visiting other companies for work every now and then.
If they are in a fancy new steel-and-concrete office building with open space offices, chances are that cell reception is very bad. I once was in an office where I'm certain they had installed cell blockers on the toilets.
I think my workplace had that until they realized that it also stopped management from being reachable. Fucking lol.
I have a work account on programming.dev, using the internet for work is pretty common.
Pro tip: Don't do not-work stuff on work owned hardware.
Or while connected to work networks
I used to sign in to my personal accounts on my work computer. And then a place laid me off and remotely locked the computer before I could sign out of anything, and I realized I had been stupid.
Now I just use my phone. But I also work from home so there's no one to creep on me and report I'm looking at my phone instead of click clacking away.
Things like gmail let you log out everywhere all at once. But since you are at home now, third monitor for the home pc.
Or KVM.
Protip use anydesk to connect to your own computer remltely and do personal stuff from there. Then the only link to be severed is anydesk, which can be protected by password and 2fa
Pro tip, use KVM switches and USB mouse movers. Also if your work is hardcore enough to restrict software... Just RDP to your home computer. But I leave no trace of my slack on my work machine.
Rough day at work today, OP...?
Never attach a personal device to a company network!!!
I imagine the socialist/ML and pro-union content also plays into this (speaking as a socialist/ML and extremely pro-union, mind you). Corporations hate and are terrified of any sort of dissidence that threatens their profits and will absolutely police your activity on it. Weirdly enough Western "freedom of speech" doesn't seem to extend to this kind of stuff in practice, can't imagine why.
More likely op being a dumbass and using work resources to fuck around on the clock.
I do. I also competently complete all the work that's given to me and then some. I'm being paid to do a job and I do it well. If I'm not engaged in work and caught up I'm going to discretely "fuck around" while still being on hand for anything that needs me.
That's what most jobs are: you're paid to complete specific tasks and be available for when something comes up.
Oh, I could be doing more work? -- I'd love to ... for more pay or time off. The expectation of "looking busy" and "busy work" is for jackasses, and I don't work for free.
The company firewall very likely is using a "content filtering" function which for Sonicwall, for example, is a subscription service where the admin can select any number of "categories" of content to block. I found lemmy.world was being blocked because Sonicwall had that domain categorized as "gaming" which was disallowed. I reported the error to Sonicwall that it should be "social media" but haven't heard back (it takes a while) but some companies might block that category also. In short, it might not be blocked because of any positive action by your company but instead by accident because whoever first classified the site didn't understand what it was.
I'm less worried about what they actively block with an in-your-face "this content is forbidden" screen and more worried about what they might silently flag to my supervisor, tbh. They're unlikely to block pro-union content, for example, but might silently track who's going on those kinds of sites.
Your personal security concerns are valid but every company is different, and it seems most people don't work at a firm their whole lives anymore so there is less trust and less loyalty and decency, really. In my case the wifi given to employees for their personal phones is totally segregated from the work LAN so while it is definitely monitored and protected in the same way, its far less of a concern for company security. It is also throttled so watching videos is almost impossible, it blocks a hoard of malicious stuff (which makes using it safer for the user than when they leave), and many of those using it are on cheap limited plans so they might not be able to leave their comms open to their family or check the location of their kids during the workday, or even get updates otherwise. Many use it to stream radio stations or listen to podcasts usually into earbuds. Properly classified porn sites, etc. are blocked. However, I recently heard there will be changes imposed on us from above and all these users may soon be kicked off this wifi entirely. Managers and office workers will certainly be still allowed to use it but the people who really need it? I guess they are SOL.
Yea, and the filters are not that accurate either.
Tried to login into Telegram at work, and it was blocked for terrorism lmao.
Gave me a scare, but never got a talking to about it.
The only people to know about it would be IT, if we even have an alert for it (we generally don't) because we don't care about someone trying to access something is blocked, we know its blocked so its no threat. Things we care about are real security concerns like when your machine suddenly is downloading a bunch of exe files, connecting to a database server in Brazil, scanning the network for open file shares and running powershell scripts to encrypt every file it finds. Most well-set-up places are running endpoint protection now though so the first thing you'll notice is you will lose your internet. THEN you might get visited, but by then you'll probably be calling us since nothing works LOL
Given that I can literally access my unions resources from my employers internet, I doubt that's an issue.
Could it be that in your country your employer is required by law, or there exists an union contract that specifies your right to access this information?
it couldnt be, we just established that "Western “freedom of speech” doesn’t seem to extend to this kind of stuff in practice"
Why in the heck would anyone browse any social media on your company machine?
That's the whole reason I left Reddit because it forced me to have to use Reddit on a computer and it's one of the first things I remind new hires not to use social media on company property, it's always monitored from keyboard to Internet connection.
Good lord people...
I used to do social media marketing for a company. I used a company computer for that ¯\(ツ)/¯
Your ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is missing several limbs, but at least the armpits are bushy.
Good thing I live in a country where it's forbidden (unless everyone approves of it, which if course almost never happens) that they monitor everything.
Sure internet movement could be looked up but even that needs to be because if a specific reason. They cannot just randomly look up everyone's browser history.
Because it's fine?
Yeah some companies might monitor what you do but:
a) It's not that common or not that detailed as some people imply it
b) It's mostly for detecting malware or breaches, they don't care about your social stuff.
c) Most people just check normal stuff in social media nothing to worry even if somebody from works check it
d) People have downtimes, checking Twitter or similar for a little while it's not a firing offense....
e) Most of the time is not checked by anyone except if something flags it. Which again usually is set for malware and breaches not if you spend x time on YouTube or Twitter....
Yeah...use your phone if you can... But some people are painting this as the end of the world like the untouchable the forbidden fruit.
Coming from IT:
A: Disagree; it's logged, analyzed, and stored in the name of efficiency.
B: Yes, but also no. Stopping malware is the original idea. But why would a business stop there when they can pressure 2% more time out of you by assigning ametric for everything?
C: Fair
D: It is if there's budget cuts/Boss dislikes you. Leaving evidence of you not working on company time can be an anchor around your neck.
E: Yes, until no. See D.
I agree using work internet for personal shit isn't career suicide, but it just opens the door for shit that isnt needed. Frivolous work internet usage is an example of "Free to those who can afford it, very expensive for those who can't".
Just use Data if you can, or shitpost after your shift
YSK even the local tab on any instance will load many transcluded images from other instances.
if you're worried about your employer monitoring for suspicious hostnames, you're rolling the dice every time you do any personal web browsing (outside of sites that don't transclude 3rd party images, like wikipedia, and, ironically, facebook...).
I'm against transclusion. Unless that clusion is inclusion, then I'm for it.
On phone, use LTE. On computer set up a cheap Linux shell on your vsp of choice. Then use an ssh socks proxy for your browser.
I don't think your company computer allows for the same things my company computer does
Pretty sure you can create a tunnel without any admin rights or installing anything. Might require you to run ssh on port 443 if they are really strict.
That was my default when I worked. Just ran the proxy from work through my home network. Never was asked about.
and MAKE SURE it's set up to use DNS over that socks5 connection.
The other day I was on all and there was fucking porn without any NSFW filter on it on some cumsluts community, no co-workers were around thankfully but it was a good wake up call that all is not a place you wanna be unless you are at home.
Wait. Is everything from LemmyNSFW.com NOT auto-tagged, or is that community also on another instance?
I can't remember, I didn't take the time to screenshot it haha
I'm glad my work doesn't care what I do online as long as I get my shit done. It's not the highest paying job in the world, but perks like that keep me there.
Not caring what you do on your pc, within reason, is not the same as not monitoring for dangerous actions that could endanger your network or company (and client data). I don't care what my colleagues do on their pc either. As long as it doesn't cause me more work.
Logging security incidents is work. So we do block a lot of websites and keep an eye on what you try to run. If we see something wrong we just talk to you and explain why we don't want you to do that. 99,9% of the time everybody is happy after that.
The idea of this being something you can get fired for or that's taken into consideration for your evaluation is insane though. We have rights as workers. Keeping the network safe means I can see some extent of what you do. Your boss or their boss has no right to that information unless you state you will continue endangering the network. Even in that case I wouldn't even tell them the websites tbh.
The wifi at my work won't let me browse Lemmy at all. I have to enable a VPN on my phone to browse, or go to mobile data.
This is what you should be doing on all corporate networks. What personal sites you go to is none of their business.
Alternatively, don't use their network and use your cell connection, but for some people, that's not gonna work, I know.
Work Wi-Fi is not your connection.
It is the business's business to be aware of what sites its employers are using.
Only on company equipment.
Lol I work for a Fortune 100 company, they did not need me to afford this shitty work PC, but sure. This is our PC, comrade. Seize the means etc
That doesn't make the PC, network, and connection belong to the employees. You're making ideological leaps that are not in tune with the reality of the situation. Obviously the company can't exist without employees. That doesn't matter in this situation. Fact, a company run by capitalists. Fact, I am paid a wage. Fact, my wage is what I agreed to take as payment for my labor. Fact, this PC I use to perform my duties IS NOT FUCKING MINE.
Christ.
Nah, they sure do want to know, though. It's not businesses business to know what book you are reading on lunch break, it's not businesses business to know what newspaper you are reading at work, it's not businesses business to know what social media sites you are reading.
I am of the perspective that if you are accessing that book or newspaper or social media sites using company equipment and network resources, then the company, as the network operator, sets the terms and conditions of you using their network. That can extend to SSL decryption of all connections or blocking unwanted programs or websites or nothing at all, it is all down to the company policies at that point since they own the equipment and pay for the ISP connection.
I don't think it's a good idea to use company networking equipment or connections with the same expectation of privacy (or control) as an internet connection you pay for. (eg. Home ISP, wireless carrier, etc) Even consumer ISP connections have certain well-known protocols blocked at the carrier as part of the terms and conditions of utilizing the ISP's connections. It may be your traffic, but it may not be your network it is traversing. Most network operators have an inherent interest in the traffic traversing their networks.
You're perspective is a very authoritarian hellhole of a perspective I've gotta say. If you think just because the company controls the network connection they get full obliterating rights to your every waking moment and you get zero levels of privacy then we are on very different sides of worker rights.
That completely misconstrue's my statements. Have a nice day.
No, I understood you, I didn't misconstrue anything. We just differ massively in opinion. You think the network operator gets to decide the content that flows over the network. I say the network operator pushes packets and has no right to interfere in your private life.
The move to further and less breakable forms of encryption between clients heavily suggests that the tide is turning in my direction.
Well, you should be using a VPN for privacy anyway, so that wouldn't be a problem.
Do you guys not have phones?
My phone is exclusively used to play Diablo
Ah yes I understand this reference.
Its worth noting, you cant actually MITM most traffic without device acess. To MITM my lemmy traffic, you would need either a copy of the certificate and private key of for example lemmy.world, which they would never willingly provide, or you would need to get a valid certificate from a CA for lemmy.world, which you could never get without verifying ownership of the domain.
If you are using a company owned device to browse Lemmy, then 100% they can very easily install a custom Root CA and make their own certificates, and you should assume all your traffic is monitored. But if they allow BYOB or for your phone to be on the network, then they would be unable to see that traffic without you being able to tell, because you would get certificate errors.
But if they allow you to install a VPN, then just use TOR with a TOR bridge and you wouldnt have issues, because they cant tell its VPN / TOR traffic akaik
So if you were, say, using a VPN on your personal phone at work on their internet, would you also get in trouble?
If it's a personal device, at worst they would see you are using a VPN and maybe ask what's up with that, but they can't mitm you on your own device.
Why would you join your phone to the company wifi? Mobile data is cheap (at least where I am). I've never joined my personal phone to an employer's wifi. At least not in the last five or so years.
True. I wouldn't, I was just curious.
Where I am, I'm on prepaid. It's not cost-effective to pay for a full plan (when eg.: I already have internet at home).
cell reception is spotty where I work and there's a guest WiFi option and they allow VPN. works Wi-Fi works for my use case.
Most probably not. Unless you've installed custom root certificate provided by them. (which you most probably didn't)
Unless you're handing your phone over and letting them root it, they almost certainly are not MITMing your traffic. At best, they can see you're using a VPN. If they are able to snoop your traffic, either your VPN is absolutely shit, or you changed some setting you shouldn't have and fucked yourself.
You put a VPN on your company phone?
You're using personal software like Lemmy on your company phone?
No, I was asking if you did
That was my response. You shouldn't be doing personal tasks on a work phone. Has that ever been a thing corporations wouldn't immediately fire you for? VPN or not, NSFW or SFW, don't browse Lemmy or other social media on your work devices. Ever. Depending on who you work for, it could even be highly illegal, especially if it's a government job.
Eh, my work explicitly states we can use our work laptop for personal use as long as it doesn't interfere with work. We can even install software if we want, but there are a lot of security features that ensure you can't put anything wonky on there.
That said, I usually steer away from social media on my work laptop, except some highly moderated and text-focused places like resetera.
A lot of people really just don't get this. I had to explain to a couple people they can go look at basically anything they want as to what you're looking at. Less is more. We have an app on all company phones called lookout that monitors everything including GPS than you can't turn off. I hate it. I have to keep my phone on when I'm at home too so I extra don't like it.
Yes there has ever been a corp that wouldn't fire you for that. Everywhere I have worked actually. They just warn you that they can see what you are doing.
There's some at mine that don't even have a personal and I don't get it. You leave and have to change your number and deal with all that crap plus if you have to have an account sent you a text.
They told me that was an option an I was like Fuuuuck no, I keep that shit separate. I still get calls on my work phone when the previous guys kid needs to be picked up from daycare.
omg people, dont do personal stuff on your work machine or connected to your work network. A vpn wont save you from all the software they install in your machine to track you. Use your phone with your mobile data.
Be careful though, as many companies also flag VPN usage as suspicious by default.
If you're just looking to hide from your employer, you might want to consider self-hosting a VPN/HTTPS proxy server, or, for more technical users, self-host a VPN/proxy server that forwards the incoming traffic through a commercial VPN. If you use a commercial cloud hosting platform, all they can really see in that case is that you're accessing, say, a Digitalocean server, which can also be for any number of benigin websites. Make sure you have your VPN client set to connect over port 443 (the normal HTTPS port) and not the official OpenVPN or Wireguard port, as well as use the networking interlock (internet killswitch) feature that disables internet access without the VPN connection active.
Still not perfect obviously, but I imagine better than using a well-known commercial VPN directly. Or, you can always just use cellular data/hotspot for personal browsing and completely prevent your employer from seeing it.
That's a given. Who wants some VPN provider in south asia knowing you surf history? (same for DoH and Cloudflare btw) Just set up a private VPN in your router.
Better idea.. you could work. Or use a VPN on your phone.
Or just use LTE and not Company WiFi which is obviously monitored. Like how dumb is OP lol
Yeah that would also work.
Yeah better not take a break and use the phone while on it.
By all means, please do. IT departments can look for this type of traffic and report it to HR, which saves the company money.
I find it funny that people seem to think that browsing reddit at work is ok, as long as it’s not porn. I don’t think employers see it that way.
I would think most employees would want to keep their jobs. Maybe you know more than I do.
I don’t know who you think I am, but I’m not in a position to hide some random person’s internet browsing on the web. I’ve already recommended options to avoid being traced.
Think to yourself, are there any possible other scenarios in which the person I’m talking to is not the boss of other people? Maybe this person has been employed and wanted to hide their own habits.. maybe this person used to be in a position where they could monitor and / or control internet access.. maybe this person snitched on their workers, maybe they didn’t.
But you’re right, I’m probably the boss. I’m probably actually Elon Musk.
Wanna buy a shitty low poly “truck”?
The Tony Danza you seek is in another castle…
Working at work. Psshh
Working is stupid
Tell me how else I'm supposed to afford food and a place to live!
That's why it's stupid.
Just make sure your parents are billionaires.
Plot twist: it's 2009 and you're in zimbabwe
Doesn't stop the network from seeing what you're doing
This, this thread is basically this songs bridge exemplified. 😅
You guys aren't using DoT (DNS-over-TLS) or DoH (DNS-over-HTTPS) ??
That won't hide the IP and really doesn't hide the domain name either if your company actually has any decent monitoring on the network.
General rule: if you're on the company hardware or network just assume your IT department knows where you're browsing.
There's a good chance that SSL inspection is being used if it's picking up the names of instances.
I use DoH. What's DoT? What are the differences?
DoT uses the TLS protocol as far as I know while DoH uses the general HTTPS (443) protocol. But both of them are encrypted so you shouldn't worry about security with any of them. Just use the one that is supported with your device/app
I find it crazy that you can get in trouble for browsing the wrong websites. It's illegal where I live to track people's computers.
If you're using company hardware on a company network and our security software says you're visiting ransomware like URLs, it's very much legal monitoring as it's for a technical reason. It's probably mandatory since you need to do this to protect the personal data your company stores.
More often than not you probably signed a document stating you understood and accepted this.
Just a distinction: It's most-likely a laptop issued by the company, not a personal computer.
In the US there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on company computers and company networks and to reinforce this usually on day 1 of a job you sign documents explicitly stating they can and will monitor traffic on company systems.
Without monitoring traffic on all company systems there would be no way to know if your company was subjected to a breach. There is mandatory reporting for public companies and part of the reporting includes the capability to monitor for said breaches.
To that end I have to wonder where you are that information security is basically prohibited by law.
Ain't your hardware and/or network
My company uses zscalar. It's essentially a company endorsed MitM attack and for that reason alone I don't use the work laptop for anything but work.
I think that was the goal.
We use zscaler too, I never knew what it did, only that it fucks with printing when it needs to be reauthenticated. I hate it so much. Nothing but a nuisance.
seriously, why don't people just use their phones for non-work stuff in the office? you can leave those disconnected from wifi so nothing is visible to the company.
I'm not in an office. I just swap to my own desktop if I need to do anything non work related.
When I used to work in an office, I'd always use wireguard to tunnel my traffic on my phone back through my home IP. Got to use their wifi and still maintain my privacy
This is even easier now with tools like tailscale
And this is why I always use a VPN on my phone.
WFH FTW.
This does not apply for most european users. Source: I am the one who gets these requests and anyone who isn't a judge gets jack shit. Go pound sand. Anything else would be illegal under privacy and work laws. Even police wont get ANYTHING (judge will reject it) if the crime in question isn't worth at least 2 years of jail time.
Suspected malware domains just get blocked, no further action will ever take place.
Exactly. American workplace monitoring is crazy.
What's the name of the instance that uses ransomware name?
Derp.foo
There's malware named derpfoo?
It’s named DERP according to a quick search
Bruh derp is also a meme tho
They might be referring to lemmy.zip. Imagine this email.
Many things will render that as a clickable link. In case it didn't, here is an explicit one. https://invoice.zip Go to this website. It explains the risks. In case it isn't clear, zip is both a common file extension as well as a top level domain now. This means that it is great for phishing.
But I'm confused why OP thinks this is a problem on all specifically. Your client only talks to your instance. Only Lemmy instances talk to each other. Your instance does all aggregation for you.
One of the ones marked as sus, yes
How? The client should only be talking to your home instance. Your home instance does all aggregation for you. Only Lemmy instances talk to each other and clients talk to one instance. That's how federation works.
Non-textual content (media, and icons I believe) is still served from the other instance to prevent all federated instances from exploding in size.
Additionally, some browsers will preload/prefetch links to "improve the browsing experience"
You're totally right and that was a dumb oversight on my part. Please forgive me, OP.
Nah, you're good. Lemmy is still new stuff. 👍
When I read stuff like this, I feel there is a whole part of Lemmy that I am totally clueless about.
I have no idea even where the areas that OP is talking about even exist, and with the way the servers seem to go down all the time or I need to reload a browser, it makes it that much more difficult to wander around and get to know the place because you never know if a certain page is empty because its really empty or it just didn't load correctly.
VPN 4tw.
If you just run a VPN things like zscalar will still get you. They'll just send the web traffic through the VPN to their proxies and still log everything you do.
There's ways round it, but all of them will no doubt violate corporate policies.
The only real solution is not to use work computers for non work use.
If you use a private VPN on a company computer, they can still monitor what you're doing on the local machine, and/or report home through the VPN. And some companies won't even wait to ask what you're doing with a personal VPN on their machine - you'll be in trouble just for installing it.
Or you could be like the company I previously worked for and not monitor anything with any seriousness, but a lowly tech managing some one-off software installs for the office PCs (me) might notice software that shouldn't exist and report it. Happened to a new guy, the VPN to his home got higher ups combing through his work, and was the final icing on the cake after they also found emails from work to a personal email with customer information attached. They didn't even entertain an excuse, he was sacked same day. (This was all pre COVID, there was no such thing as work from home)
So yea, definitely...VPN might not be the hammer that falls, but it can start the hunt and still burn you. Someone might use it to browse lemmy, other people might use it to steal company data. It's not worth the risk for a company to attempt to differentiate between the two. Obligatory 'your mileage may vary', especially now with the COVID push to work from home, but it happens!
Good to know, thank you for posting this. I'll keep this is mind to avoid any issues.
And to everyone else wondering why you would use company computers to browse the Internet instead of just using your phone, some jobs out there do not allow you to do so. My employer for instance, has banned using phones everywhere except for the break rooms and offices. We can still have our phones on us for emergencies and take phone calls, but otherwise we are not allowed to have them our. If we have to take a phone call we have to exit the work area and move to a nearby break room to do so. We have been specifically told (in writing) to use the computers instead when there is nothing to do. We have even been told YouTube is fine as long as there is no work. Because of that, I do a ton of personal web browsing on company computers since my job is so feast or famine so having information like this is helpful.
Yeah I was gonna say, don’t be browsing anything non work related directly on your work machine. I usually VPN to home then browse through RDP. If your work has screen monitoring software just browse from a personal device.
Yeah I get domain blocked popups sometimes while browsing at work. I mainly see that it's happening for lemmy.today.
Even if you stick to subscribed, there's nothing stopping people from spamming NSFW stuff in the comments and in posts except for the mods/admins though bad actors can always just register more accounts on any federated instance.
Hoping we see more improvements to mod tools/abilities.
I always forget that most people are on a computer at work a lot of the time.
I couldn’t stand that. I need to be outside being violent at boards and steel or I go insane.
I browse on my phone using data, I refuse to use company computers or wifi for anything that isn't work related exactly for this reason.
Gah!!! Ffffuuck me I forgot about that. I take business calls on my phone through work WiFi and maybe I use my personal phone on breaks and such.. woopsie. So how bad does it look if I used an app or even a game without turning off wifi?
Overwhelming majority of workplaces won't give a shit. There's so many real issues to deal with and what games you have running on your phone is not one of them, that's a management problem - not an IT one.
Some incredibly high security environments might think otherwise but they'd never let you use your phone for business, you'd certainly be given one from the company.
Having a talk about it doesn't mean they care. They'd just want you to stop doing that on the work network.
Serious question: there isn't any tracking software installed on my work computer, and I use a VPN browser extension. Is it still possible for my employer to see what I'm doing?
I'm a systems admin. Last week, I had an employee using a VPN to try and hide their traffic. My monitoring software caught it. I couldn't see the traffic, but I could see it connected to a known Tor IP. My system saw the fishy connection and sent the alert. Just be careful and don't assume you're completely safe with the VPN.
It's best to assume your IT department can see everything you do, and keep personal stuff on personal devices.
How could you see it was connected to a known tor IP? Would you not just see the IP of the VPN server and not the final destination?
And VPN servers are often flagged for all kinds of shit because some use them for tor or spam.
I think he meant the VPN target was a known tor IP as well
Yeah, it doesn't read very clear. I'm assuming they meant that the destination IP was for the VPN server and that some deep packet analysis determined that the encapsulated traffic was TOR-bound. Or it was a wild assumption that they were using TOR and they use it synonymously with VPN.
Either one of these events (unauthorized VPN or TOR connections) would be reason enough to look more into the employee's IT resource usage.
You've got it. I have an NDR I mirror packets to and it picked up the connection. I think the guy hit a Tor IP before connecting with NordVPN, but I do remember seeing the connection to Tor that sparked the alert, followed by the traffic to Nord. Either one of those things would have triggered an investigation into the user.
Forwarded that to my security team and washed my hands of it. Wish I knew why users pull stuff like that on company resources. If they just did it at home, I wouldn't care!
Yeah that kinda sounds like FUD to me as well. He wouldn't see anything BUT the VPN.
Depending on the quality of your IT department; it's quite possible that tracking software could be on your work computer and you simply cannot detect it. And yes, corporate tracking can easily detect what you are doing even if you use a VPN. It's best if you simply use work computer for work only. Don't even check gmail on it. Don't even link your google account in your browser.
Depends on who owns the network as well and if you're connected to a corporate VPN. The rule of thumb is that you can't expect privacy if you're not the sole admin of that computer.
Security software isn't tracking software. It should be able to hook into every current semi popular browser without you being able to disable it.
On the other hand, allowing users who don't know the answer to the question you're asking to both install VPN software and allow them this kind of traffic is a compliance violation to begin with.
If you use a vpn, I don't think they can see your traffic
Depends. They might have a proxy in the network config or DNS or any number of non-network based methods of logging and tracking.
i only browse on my private phone which is not connected to wifi
That's why you use the guest WIFI
No! If you're doing personal stuff use your cell phone data. Do not use work Wi-Fi, do not use the work network, use your cell phones personal cell phone data plan. Do not transit personal stuff over the corporate network. It will be logged it will be monitored and there may be questions.
At the very least have your phone use a VPN if you're going to use the Wi-Fi.
This is also managed by IT and is fully traceable as well.
I have unlimited data on my cell and just stay off WiFi altogether. The price premium is worth it to me for this one specific reason alone, let alone the other benefits/convenience.
Source: work in IT.
https://mullvad.net/
Yeah let me just install and use this 3rd party software on a company network…
You use a VPN on your own phone. Accessing any web site unrelated to work on your work computer is beyond retardation.
I would argue the same for using company WiFi. Definitely use a VPN if you have up use their connection but mobile data is better.