I wish I could say the same but I can't bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He's let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone's coming out of I'm within earshot... No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here's a quote saying so from the 90s.
I've thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I'm going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it's bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don't regret it to this day. I don't believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I'm not really willing to compromise certain morals.
That's fine. I have no contact with his entire side of the family except one cousin for that very reason, but my dad isn't like them. I don't think he understands that he votes R because his family has always voted R. His vote is really the only thing I dislike about him.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn't have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he'd have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he'd have gone to the dark side. There's a real chance I wouldn't be talking to him right now if he did. I'm glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it's really nothing for me to do so as well.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It's why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don't think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don't have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than "immigrants bad" or "Eggs expensive" - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that's what made Obama's campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message "Change".
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don't have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that's a little less uh painful.
That's something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don't wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don't want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn't.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn't.
Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.
It's not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.
a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politicianfucking president of a huge country
If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries' representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I'm not in the USA. But it's not like this doesn't fuck over the rest of the world too.
if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
I've heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don't succeed, because people don't want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
I guess it didn’t work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?
Both are about as loyal as any Dem foot soldiers you could name. Sanders, in particular, has been at least as zealous on Israel as Biden throughout his career.
Bernie disagrees with the Neoliberal rhetoric and wants to save capitalism from itself. But he's staunchly partisan.
There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let's not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I'm not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it's a dangerous concept.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
As an example, Trump didn't get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.
Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don't fucking matter when real ones aren't a hurdle to getting elected.
Lol right? Let's stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let's stop silencing victims' stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn't matter anyway, it doesn't hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I'm so fucking done with that line of speech now.
it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.
I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.
Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.
I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.
This might come as a surprise, but the people opposing the genocide did not magically disappear. Almost like they were not a Russian troll farm but real people with morals and values.
but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide
You hoped, "we" didnt "recognize".
If Harris was going to end it she would have said so in the few days before the election. She proved pretty thoroughly that was never going to stop taking that AIPAC money.
The problem with simply being "frustrated" about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that "something" is fucking fascism, you're an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
If they were going to realize it, they would've realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They'll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they're hating that day.
This tweet assumes people care about OPs opinion, or histories opinion.
It's a toothless threat trying to invoke some Boogeyman of future retribution.
Anyone who voted for Trump is going to be doing the Jennifer Lawrence "ok" reaction to this.
I've family that voted for Trump. Had plans on spending Thanksgiving there. Told them I'm not coming, and told them why. Explained that I'll be happy to apologize if the next four years goes well. Otherwise, I'm holding them accountable. I love them, but I will not associate with them.
I'm done with the "they're family, you have to accept them." Bullshit.
I warned my wife if her dad makes the mistake of showing his bitch ass face to me again he's dead, she was smart enough to already know
Fucker already literally threatened my life twice before on top of all the other horrid shit he's done, and now he knows hes not allowed near his favorite daughter or he's pig food
And should things turn around and the overwhelming consensus somehow turns against Trump (seems highly unlikely currently), people will just lie about having supported him.
The dnc leadership are the real clowns here. They set up this no-win hostage situation and now the hostages are dead and people want to blame everyone except Biden and Harris for it.
No. It is that Trump won with the support of over 70 million Americans. People are responsible for their choices. jfc
Everyone saying Trumps totals didn't change, yes, but their composition absolutely did change. But even that is besides the point. Even if they staged exactly the same, that's still really fucking problematic and its absurd to give these people cover for being shitasses.
So really the change between 2020 and 2024 is not a popularity increase for Trump, but a huge popularity loss for Biden/Harris.
Now the question is, how did Biden/Harris manage to be so unpopular, that 12 million people decided to rather risk Trump winning, than vote for them again?
Doesn't your first statement imply that the dems flubbed an easy victory? Combined with the fact that Trump didn't gain many voters? If the election was supposed to be that easy to win, isn't it the dem campaign strat that is the problem? HEY WHITE WOMEN YOU LIKE LETHAL MILITARY?
Well apparently not it wasnt enough. Either the wet turd wasn't enough or they didn't do better than one. Either way, you're acting like a Democrat right now. "It's the voters who are wrong!"
The voters (and non-voters) are wrong. That isn't acting like a Democrat, that is acknowledging that the election results were putting a fucking felon who tried to overthrow the government back into office and that is the stupidest fucking outcome possible.
That is the country kicking itself in the dick. We played ourselves.
I'd really like to have 100 randomly chosen Trump voters in a room and interview them to find out how knowledgeable they are about Trump, about his policies, about his first term, about the criminal cases, etc.
My guess is that at least 90% of them are brainwashed. I'm sure there are some that are completely aware of his record and are either single issue voters who are voting only on abortion. Some may be multi-millionaires who are voting just for lower taxes and don't care about anything else. But, anybody who voted for him because of inflation / the economy has no idea what they're talking about. Inflation was a worldwide problem and Trump's policies made / will make it worse. Anybody who voted for him because he's going to "fix immigration" has no idea what they're doing because his policies are incoherent and will never work. Anybody who voted for him because of Gaza is an absolute moron because he's just going to encourage the genocide.
Trump and his fascists deserve most of the blame, but I fear that liberals won't learn from this. Realpolitik is bullshit. When you promise to help people but then sell us out to lobbyists and the donor class decade after decade after decade, then people lose all faith in institutions. Facts don't matter because those facts were used to gaslight time and time again.
They didn't improve people's material conditions. They did some things that may help in several years, but did fuck all for the suffering people were feeling. They went even further to deny those feelings to people's face.
I guess you're right, if you're a teamster whose pension just got saved, that's something you won't appreciate for a dozen or so years.
So clearly, stuff like that is a crapshoot and will never be attempted again. The only thing politicians will do is subsidize purchases for goods and services.
No national healthcare insurance because people won't appreciate that until they're sick. So just send out checks for 600 dollars to make things a little easier on people, it's way cheaper too.
What you see on TikTok are the most entertaining videos. I have no idea if they have to cut out 2% of the videos because they're not entertaining, or 50% or 98%.
You're just pitching a story the NYT and the WaPo run regularly. "I heard it on a podcast, I heard it on FOX News, I heard it at church". That's the response you get.
Don't trust liberals to give you the news. Only trust conservatives. Viola! Now you'll have a strong Republican dogma.
I judge you for your literal inability to detect hostility and scams.
We have SO MUCH EVIDENCE that Trump is a Russian asset who Russia has Kompromat on (see American Kompromat by Unger). We are at war with Russia and previously were at war with them for decades. And we don't think Putin wants revenge? Look at what happened to Navalny.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts. Almost as if he's a foreign fucking asset harming the US as much as possible in a proxy war. He has a history of violence, abuse, and grifting. How can people be so naive? Literal wolf in wolf's clothing with neon signs saying "I'm a wolf and I will eat you."
Both 2024 and 2016 were total punts by the Democratic party, elections that could have easily been won in large margins, but defeat pulled from the jaws of victory in a way that seemingly only they can.
People know if they live in battleground/swing states. And still, the fact is that despite Trump getting FEWER votes than last time (which is an election he LOST, by the way), he WON this time, simply because millions of blue voters in those key states decided they'd rather not vote at ALL, than vote for the Democrats' candidate.
There is no excuse for the results of either of these elections, honestly. It's fucking embarrassing.
An unusual counterpoint. The 'krompomat' the Russians wasn't really proven, and at this stage I think if they threaten him with releasing whatever Trump can just go 'LOL like I give a fuck. You seen the shit I did to their face? They still voted for me!'
Many of those people could have been swayed to vote democrat if the democrats fucking addressed the actual fucking issues and actually gave them a damn narrative to go by. Saying everything is fine when nothing is fine and the Republicans are constantly screwing them over (while also 100% deflecting ALL blame elsewhere) is delusional at best.
I've done a lot of posts critical of the posture and actions of the Democrat Party and their whole "If you don't vote you're voting Trump" propaganda (which are right there in my post history with lots of for and against votes), but as I see it the point being made by this tweet is different.
I don't read this tweet as being about people who didn't vote at all because the present day Democrat party, Democrat Candidate and Democrat President's actions didn't appeal to them (which is what seems to be responsible for the Democrat loss), I think it's about people who actually explicitly voted Trump (so, none of that "implictly voting Trump if you don't vote" bollocks but actually putting their vote on Trump)
And I absolutelly agree with this tweet: that man is a complete total worm - in everything from what he's done to what he says and even his body language - and on top of that was offering scapegoating and hate as policies.
I can get it that some people couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Genocidal ethno-Fascist supporting, pro-Oligarchy hard-right Neoliberal, slimy snakesoil salesman liar Democrats, but anybody actually voting Trump is not simply distrusting of or dissapointed with the modern day Democrat Party, they're active supporters of an even broader and deeper kind of nastiness.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren't going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
Do you understand how many times we've tried this already? They are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lies, and projection.
I'm not saying we need to destroy them or anything, but this shit has gone too far. We need to try way harder to fight back against their hateful, regressive bullshit at this point.
No, the people that voted for Trump in this election will never vote for a non republican candidate regardless of how much you try to appease them. IMO you're more likely to lose even more voters than you stand to gain taking this approach. The democrats need to come up with a vision and candidate that is neither Harris, Biden, and certainly not anything close to Trump. They need someone that will make non-voters believe that there's a good chance their life will improve enough to make voting worthwhile.
They don't want problem solvers or critical thinking skills, they want to create a class of low skilled, low intelligence, baby breeding, obedient working class people.
The owning class will be educated through private institutions.
This is already how it is. Our public schools are underfunded to the point of being useless. The lack of quality public education is how you end up with this many idiots voting for trump in the first place.
That, and religious indoctrination destroying any chance they had at developing critical thinking skills.
My unfortunate observation is the majority of people who voted for Trump don't pay any attention to current events and basically get their news via rumor. But if you want the true culprit, it's the 15 million Democrats that voted last time but not this time. The votes for Trump actually went down compared to last time.
I fit was a few million less I would blame voter suppression via things like purging voter rolls. But the drop is so drastic it is clear the problem is that at least 10+ million people simply chose not to vote against an obvious threat to the country because the Dem candidate for President wasn't appealing enough.
Well 114 million people who could have voted this year didn't. It's a combination of apathy and laziness. We could be like Australia and mandate the vote.
Yeah I don't believe that for a fucking second to be honest with you, and I'm finding it difficult to not go insane with conspiracy theories about MAGA fucking with the vote counts, and becoming the same person I made fun of surrounding Jan 6 - except he has a proven record of being a cheat and all but outright stated his intent to cheat the election. I'm kind of dumbfounded that 3 hours after voting night closes the major news outlets are all reporting a Trump win which they couldn't possibly know yet, everyone takes this as fact and refuses to investigate any further. Official vote tally and certification isn't even until mid December by the usual schedule according to .gov sources.
Is it not just a little bit ridiculous to anyone else that in one of the most relentlessly politicized elections of the past century 15+ million people who voted last time suddenly didn't? 15 million people predominantly of the denominations that Trump and his goons particularly hate and wanted to silence? For that matter does anyone else find it strange that 45% of Latinos voted to deport themselves? I mean, some percentage I could expect, even up to like 20, I'd be disappointed but I'd understand, but 45%??
I am most certainly on some amount of copium here but I am incredibly surprised at the lack of any sort of investigation or push back or god damn anything surrounding what should certainly be contested results, at the very least. This feels very very fishy to me.
Ap news had a good article about how our voting machines are completely vulnerable to first hand attacks. I think they figured out how to do it. They had a LOT of help.
Hacking the machines would be useful for complaints that the counts weren't accurate, but wouldn't affect turnout. Republicans got the numbers they were expected to get, the lack of turnout hurt the Dems like it always does.
I could understand Trump in 2016. I could also understand Trump in 2020 but much less. In 2024? Nahh... America voted for him in 2024 and I will judge Americans for it.
the only president in over 100 years to lose the popular vote twice. he won it his third time. unbelievable. as a rapist he's probably used to insisting after rejection until he wears them down.
Could you really understand Trump in 2016? I'm not asking to be mean. Wasn't his character the same back then? I've tuned out of US politics since the DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016.
He was a meanie and very unpresidential and Hillary was disliked (even by me) and people wanted something different. Now he has been shown he will literally go against any advisors and literally tried to overturn the 2020 election results. Literal anti-democratic traitor to america.
in 2016 Trump was the one who mocked soldiers, was on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, vilifying immigrants, and being just as shitty as he is today. There was nothing understandable about voting for him in 2016.
Unfortunately I don't think most of these people care about being judged, especially not by some future people who they'll never meet.
As long as they see benefits in the short term, they're happy, and if the benefits don't materialize or go away too quickly, then it's The Other Side's fault somehow.
Just something that's worth pointing out is that trumps voter base didn't change much. Counting is still happening, but so far it's trump -1 mil and Harris -13 million from last election.
So it's not so much that republicans voted badly it's that democrats lost a good chunk of votes (16%) didn't bother to vote this time.
And while I completely disagree with trumps side, it's insane, but at least I am happy that people voted. Voter apathy is far more dangerous to me. It's like saying to politicians, "I don't care that the nazi party is coming to power".
To me that's the biggest issue this election and honestly I don't understand why so few people cared. It's actually same story over here (UK), where we had fewer people voting this election than previous one.
It sounds like the Democrats just failed to present themselves as a viable alternative, or really inspire or motivate anyone to vote. Their platform seemed to be largely not being Trump.
The DNC and Biden failed us. His legacy will be tainted due to his failure to step aside for the nation. Kamala as a VP was already unpopular the DNC should've known they needed to choose someone who at least did well in the primaries or could actually fucking win.
I voted for her but I knew she probably wouldn't win, they don't fucking learn and then they blame us.
Every interview where questions were asked about Kamala's positions, shed talk about trump. It was not all that different than trump shit talking kamala even.
Voters in every western country have no idea what policies are being voted on. They vote with their feelings.
There are a lot of enthusiastic people who want to be on team man, team money, team military. The first thing those people learned after their names was that they were BOYS and they would be sorted into the BOYS section, play on BOYS team. Voting Conservative is a natural extension of what they've been doing their whole lives.
It's harder motivating people to get out for team women, team tolerance, team responsibility. It requires a leader with charisma who we fall in love with.
I'm being absolutely serious when I say the Democratic Party should have nominated George Clooney — a famous celebrity figurehead would guarantee they win every presidential election.
I propose a total halt to any sexual activity with any Trump supporter. This will go on for the 4 years that asshole is in power and until a reasonable president that is not a rapist racist asshole is elected. Sure that guy could be republican but I highly recommend elsewhere.
4B needs to become more popular in the US with ovulating people.
It won't guarantee safety from forced situations, but with the incoming total bans on abortion and contraceptives they're facing over there, flat out refusing to have sex, relationships, and marriages with men, is going to be the best way to stay safe and in control of their bodies and finances.
Yup. Communication requires effort on the part of the sender and receiver. I reject the premise that anyone needed convincing by the Dems. If simply seeing the candidates speak wasn't enough, that portion if the electorate is not putting in the slightest effort to understand. There are many motivations for wilful ignorance. There were perhaps other explanations for Trumps win in '16. This time it's just that America would rather have a convicted felon as a president.
I never judge people who got scammed or tricked or whatever. It happens. But getting scammed by one of the dumbest people on the planet is almost an achievement. I'm not even hyperbolic here, i have not seen a person making so much mouth noises and saying so little at the same time. That guy tricked you? Not even a smart and charming guy? Pathetic.
People always wonder why Vince McMahon get away with all his shit. And i did too, because i kept up with his monstrosities for quite some time. But even watching his netflix documentary, and knowing what an absolute monster he is, i just could not help but finding him weirdly charming. I don't know what level of charisma he's blessed with but it's almost creepy. Donald has absolutely non of that.
Trump voters won't care about any of that shit until it impacts them personally. My family is moving from Indiana to Maryland because of this election which is really going to obliterate grandparents' time around our kids. Sucks for them we refuse to stay in a state that would actively destroy our kids' education and wellbeing. They can shell out whatever massively inflated airfare it'll cost them to come visit us in a place we can actually feel safe.
Yes the warped perscrptive informed from 50 years ago, when you had no choice but to trust the TV and newspapers, not like the world has changed since then.
I was thinking about this today, but I never thought I'd be living through, what I think of, as a major world event. This isn't a world War (in name), but the history books WILL likely bring up this period on the States. In what manner they're mentioned, good, bad, or indifferent, is yet to be seen. I imagine grandkids being bewildered when I tell them I lived through this... hopefully.
What about the lack of turnout for KH? Am I reading the results wrong ? Was there not massive amounts on non voters? As much as I hate republicans the fence setters an uninformed have fucked us all outside the US
John Oliver's segment on Palestinians really cemented it for me: if your family was killed by a missile sold to them by Biden, it's really difficult to support his successor.
Sure you may not want the orange turd either.
But imagine the heartache of voting for the person related to the one who is responsible for the death of your family.
I know I can't. And a part of me feels for them.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim. No one stopped to tell Harris that Clinton lost.
Sanders warned her that if she wants a good turn out, she needs to have a plan for the working class.
Instead she wasted weeks trying to get Republican endorsements instead of trying to shore up her base.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim.
She absolutely did not. Hillary leaned into the gender card hardcore. She had her supporters wearing t-shirts saying “I’m with her” with an arrow sign. She said “I’m not saying you should vote for me because I’m a woman, you should vote for me because of my qualifications. But one of my qualifications is…I’M A WOMAN!!!”
Kamala didn’t lean into any of this demographics, gender war trash. She (wisely) followed Barack Obama’s playbook of leaving the identify politics crap at the door. She lost for other reasons. Hillary alienated voters by leaning too hard into identity politics. Kamala ran a much better campaign than Hillary. They are not the same. Why Kamala lost will be debated for some time at least, but it will not be concluded reasonably that she lost for the same reasons Hillary lost in 2016. I know people want to conclude that women just can’t get elected, but we haven’t yet had a female candidate that ran a great campaign. As someone who wants our first female president, I have to reluctantly admit that we’ve been underserved by our female politicians thus far. I have high hopes for AOC in the future, but we’ll have to wait and see how that plays out. I don’t actually think Kamala did anything wrong in her campaign; I just think she was working against the legacy set by her predecessor, and it was too much. That, and too many American voters are stupid, ignorant, misguided voters. And, probably, some Pro-Palestinian voters had their heads up their asses.
Kamala trusted that turnout, hoped people will know the work that was done, understand the threat of second Trump presidency, and vote in similar manner again.
Don't forget running to the right in an attempt to court R voters (just what every D constituent wants!) who (as usual) did NOT show up for her.
And she lost a race against the clock by starting her campaign in the eleventh hour. Those Google search trends showed that somehow a nonzero amount of voters didn't even know she was the candidate and Biden had dropped out.
So many different variables in the mix make this election hard to compare to prior elections like 2016.
I chose to vote for Harris despite this because Trump would be no better on this, so effectively the issue wasn't up for vote and I could only vote on the other issues that were different between them. But very bluntly, I don't blame Arabs and Muslims for not voting for Harris. They have one of the strongest grievances one could possibly have (i.e. second only to attacks directly on them personally, in the U.S.), and the dismissiveness from Biden (and Harris) was downright insulting.
A part of me does feel like Biden chose Israel over Americans. I don't know if changing course on this would have changed the election, and I guess it's impossible to truly know.
The problem for the Democrats is that the tent is very big. There are a lot of issues and a lot of people who care about very different things.
Gaza, unfortunately, was one of those. We had people who grit their teeth and voted Harris even though it was going to hurt them.
On the other side, Jewish zionists would have absolutely turned on Harris if she fully supported Palestine. Harris made a pragmatic choice to not alienate the zionists in the hopes that her opponent would be so toxic that Palestinians would see the lesser of two evils.
The really frustrating thing is Republicans don't have to run this kind of campaign. They can run a campaign on shit, fantasy, and rumor and their base will still show up and vote.
I certainly do judge any Trump voter as being either terribly naive or a truly bad person. However, broadcasting that message is going to change nothing and only serves as copium for the anti-Trump crowd.
What is going to sway people who have voted for Trump in the past and are not completely lost to the cult of personality is being a champion for radical change that benefits the middle class. The Harris platform evidently did not go far enough to convince enough voters they would see any meaningful change. Nor did the Clinton or Biden platforms, Biden was only lucky enough that his policies were effectively irrelevant in contest with Trump's disastrous mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic response.
We can't hope for another deadly crisis to get us out of this one.
I would argue that he most definitely is a champion for radical change and that's why he won. "Drain the swamp", "Dictator on day one", " He says it like it is" are all things that deviate dramatically from the status quo of political etiquette. Trump is willing to break political norms to get what he wants and evidently voters think his interests align with their own.
Obviously, this isn't the kind of radical change you or I are hoping for but it certainly is radical. Meanwhile, the Dems are playing it safe in an attempt to appeal broadly and not upset too many people. And we've seen for the last decade that gets us at best legislation which has been gutted to the point where it does effectively nothing for the majority of Americans.
Student loan forgiveness, ACA, CHIPS act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Bipartisan Infrastructure were all huge gains for the majority of Americans
Most of these accomplishments, while they do benefit the middle class, are largely invisible to the average American who's not perpetually following politics.
Student loan forgiveness only directly affects people who go to college, an increasingly less popular/accessible career path amongst the working class. It also has restrictions and has been facing legal challenges, both of which limit its effectiveness.
Lower prescription drug costs are only really visible to people who are taking prescription drugs long-term and doesn't prevent the healthcare system from bankrupting you in countless other ways.
The Affordable Care Act is arguably the single most significant accomplishment for the Democratic party in my millennial lifetime and if it survives to the next election cycle it will be old enough to vote in it.
As for the rest, improving infrastructure moves too slowly for people to notice in the short-term and despite the efforts to slow them we are still facing record increases to the cost of living and job insecurity.
The working class is getting desperate, people are worried about how they're going to keep up with rising grocery prices or whether they'll get laid off from their job when they're living paycheck to paycheck. If you don't own a home yet you're likely questioning whether homeownership will ever be within reach while your landlord increases your rent for no apparent reason other than greed.
In a relative sense to the struggles the working class has been facing coming out of the pandemic, the Democrats have thrown them bones, told them the economy is great, in fact it's the best in the world when you know for a fact you were better off before the pandemic.
Do we know tariffs and mass deportations aren't going to make anything better? Do we know things are likely to get a lot worse? Are we the average American? The results of the election prove that we aren't.
This condescending attitude is almost ok when it's done by voters, the problem is tgat the dem party constantly acts insufferably towards potential voters.
It is a party's duty to appeal to the people, not the other way around. The dems proved once again that acting like "the least worst option" doesn't work, especially in a disinformation economy like the US and frankly the rest of the world. It's not the 2000's anymore, respectability politics are hated by most voters.
Anyone that brought up your points earlier this year was dog-piled and being called a tankie or Russian shill. God forbid a powerless user on this website brought up an ounce of criticism towards the party or else it was as if every loyalist was experiencing their own personal 9/11
Got called a shill because I said that Bill Clinton (who someone else brought up in the thread) sexually assaulted Monica Lewinsky because their relationships was a clear abuse of power; it wasn't consensual cheating due to the power differences in age, jobs, he was her employer, the president of the country, etc. And boy did the guys come out in full defense of Clinton, the man who rode on Epstein's plane, while screaming at me that I need therapy for bringing this up and being upset about it, and this will cost Kamala the election. Nevermind current victims or court proceedings or the public's right to know what their president was raping during his presidency.
Further, she was a prosecutor. Had she run on Epstein/Diddy "I will be tough on these sex traffickers, including Trump and Clinton," she would have won. Unfortunately, she ran on "not Trump." That's like telling a person to not think of a bear.
This is the third fucking time Democrats have run with an establishment candidate.
I voted Harris but I knew she was a shit candidate and not who we needed to go against Trump. She couldn't even primary ffs.
The DNC is squarely to blame, every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking changes. You can't keep putting up generic neocon establishment hand-picked candidates and expect turnout.
every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking change
I blame all the voters that were fine with voting for Trump first, because they looked at that shit stain and thought he would be acceptable as the leader of the country. The people that voted for him are the problem.
Harris still did a terrible job, sure. But a literal pile of dogshit should have been a preferable option to Trump.
No I think it's time to look inwards now. The only people to blame is ourselves and the trust we put into the DNC. They have broken our trust over and over again. It's fucking time to rip the bandaid off and just focus on organizing and rooting out the people and issues that led to this failure in leadership. I don't think I'm being dramatic in saying: they have completely failed us and robbed us of a secure future. I'm young, and this supreme court and all the shit to come is going to haunt me until the day I die. I'm fucking livid.
Maga has done the hard work and organized. We aren't entitled to rule with no leadership.
Genocide is a redline for me, though I understand why to many Harris voters the mass slaughter of people halfway across the world is a non-issue.
Edit: “If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Of course it's a fucking issue! Do you think it will be better now that Netanyahu got the person be wanted in the white house?! My god how short sighted are you!
Well thank God you stopped that regular genocide from happening from a first term president who we can leverage public support against if she wanted a second term.... And instead transformed it into a much faster and crueler genocide by a second term fascist who openly said we will never vote again and who wants to deport 25million Latinos out of this country (also a genocide fyi).
You guys really helped out those people in Gaza, sure thing. Look at how much you achieved. Next you'll vote for mass gas chambers instead of individual lethal injection because you're against the death penalty.
Your stance strikes me as performative. As everyone's lives are getting harder, including the people you claim to be prioritizing, that's okay because at least your hands are clean. That's the most important thing to you, that everyone knows you personally are pure.
The majority of the blame lays with the DNC, the GOP, and those that voted for Trump. But you will also share a portion of the blame, even if you deny and refuse to take responsibility for it, we all lay it on your shoulders anyways.
I don’t so I didn’t vote for him. But I wasn’t going to vote for the party that enabled the past 400 days of genocide and then sent Bill Clinton to explain to voters in Michigan how 40,000 dead Palestinians is not enough, either.
It would have been amazing if you had an option of a third outcome, but the reality is you didn't. Life is full of situations where you have to pick between things that are both distasteful. But the trolley problem illustrates that opting out to avoid it is not an option at much as you try to convince yourself that it is.
Trump had the same amount of votes or similar to last time. Harris lost a shit ton of votes, so I don't blame Trump voters. I blame Harris for running such a shit campaign.
"I don't judge you for your political party" hurrr fucking durr from a tiny mind trying to sound intelligent
The Fucking Republicans have been threatening and working towards ripping away protects from Brown people since The Southern Strategy in 1964, Andrea Junker trying to be cute, going high, and ridiculously trying to split this hair is insulting to the decades of fighting Democrats had to wage to keep Roe, and Voting Rights as long as they did while the Fucking Republicans tried every Congress under every President to strip them away
If you vote Fucking Republican, you are a Fucking Racist, and I blame you squarely for both who you vote for, and what political fucking party you belong to
Ironically i had the same urge reading the first sentence of their comment. After reading the whole thing, I feel kind of dumb hoping to find redemption by the end of it.
I'm not American, but I would have voted for him the first time around.
I was bored. Bored with life. Let's fuck shit up by putting some crazy in office. Even better that I don't live there so I get to grab the popcorn and watch the crazy.
But by the end of it, I was sooo done. I just wanted it to calm down and go back to normal.
There is no way I would have voted for him this time. And frankly I am disappointed in anyone who did.
Because you were doing it for fun, they were doing it because their lives are getting worse and wanted any change. Shows how shit the US experience is that this was preferable to continuing on.
“If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump ’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Can we stop with all this bullshit? Im not even and American and i cant stand the cry anymore. People voted, its democracy, it is what it is, get over it
Lol we don't have years. AMOC collapse is here and you all are defunding NOAA. What type of climate change related disaster do you think you'll die from? A flood like in Spain, Bogota, Japan, North Carolina? A hurricane like in Cuba and Florida? A volcano or earthquake (and yes those are getting worse due to climate change)? Maybe a polar vortex freeze, a tornado, or a forest fire? Perhaps just simple extreme heat? Who knows? I can't wait to find out tbh :)
If you didn't vote Harris because of genocide then you're a fucking moron. Trump is just going to cut Bibi a blank cheque to pave Palestine with bodies and then move on to Iran. Good job choosing the greater of two evils!
But go ahead and pat yourself on the back for staying home.
I absolutely would have judged her in a similar way had she won. But right now, she's the Vice President, and has zero say (unless its to break a tie in the Senate) on this policy whatsoever.
So why would I judge her for "supporting and being part of a genocide"? See how this works? You elect her first, then you pressure her to do the thing that you know for certain the other guy will never do.
The problem is that they don't know or care that eggs are expensive because of bird flu. They just want to justify their vote outside of the prejudices they don't want to say out loud.
Exactly! We have a TON of people here hating on Trump voters for a potential genocide (if he happens to follow through, and not be talking shit again), yet being perfectly ok with continuing the actual genocide killing boys and girls in Gaza.
Because, the potential genocide is about them and not brown people.
It is so odd and counterproductive to me to take this position. "Vote how I want or Ill hate you because Im a better person than you." Yeah, that will really bring those votes in by the millions. Instead of acting like a child why not learn about these peoples' lives and attempt to understand why they voted the way they did? Why did Democrats lose the male vote, the independent vote, half of Latinos, and all 7 swing states? It is ignorant and lazy to call them all the isms, go and actually learn why you lost.
And Harris voters behavior is equally awful, they overlooked a genocide to vote for her to “prevent fascism” and “protect democracy” meanwhile the democrat party doesn’t participate in democracy or we would of had a real primary.
A third outcome would have been to demand the dems not support it by voting uncommitted and talking about it as an issue the voters cared about. Bide/Harris could have changed their mind at any time, and they decided not to. each voter had 1/400 millionth of the choice that Biden Harris had. Dems should blame them for their choices.
By voting third party I SUPPORTED THE THIRD PARTY.
Fuck outta here with your liberal bullshit. Go be mad at the DNC for royally fucking this up.
You supported genocide AND anti democratic behavior (refusing a primary and forcing their unpopular unelected candidate down our throats then chastising us for voting wrong) and you have the FUCKING NERVE to pretend you give a flying fuck about fascism or democracy? Go back to fucking brunch lib.
You could have voted for your next door neighbor too and told yourself you were voting against genocide, but you'd be wrong then too.
You didn't support the third party's chances of winning because there was no way that was going to ever happen in this election. Elections aren't about voting for candidates as much as they are voting for outcomes.
The word liberal is not the insult you think it is.
Liberal is definitely an insult. It means having no morals or ethics or inherent beliefs and just voting blue no matter who, no matter who they genocide. It’s pathetic.
How’s chastising voters for voting wrong working out for you? You ready to lose 2028 too?
If you look at the dictionary definition, it means pretty much exactly the opposite of what you said. Also, the D party is not highly aligned with the definition of liberal, so you're also wrong about it meaning always voting blue.
Oh no! I'm shaking in my little boots. Your opinion matters so much, Andrea. For the record though, I'm with you in principal, I just don't care about your opinion.
"Its everyone else's fault but my own that I chose the misogynistic racist."
It wouldn't have mattered what the dems did. Trump offered the most concessions to the ultra wealthy. Just like when the Democrats win, thats what decides it.
I voted third party. Go on and cry about it liberal.
You’re not pushing your candidate to the left after being out to brunch for the past four years and overlooking a genocide, you’re being pulled right and you think you’re “protecting democracy” by voting for a candidate that not a single vote went to in a primary, and “preventing fascism” by funding the israelis in their genocide.
I voted third party. I didn’t vote for the piece of shit orange buffoon, but it’s really telling that the DNC lost this fucking badly to him. They’re not incompetent, no no, the voters are evil scum of the earth!
It's day four of Trump being in office and I've already been ghosted by dozens of people for the crime of not voting. Because, you know, immigrants who can't vote are expected to vote too.
Idk what's worse: not voting and making your voice useless out of apathy or laziness, or voting third party and making sure your voice means nothing on purpose.
The whole point of a democracy is people speak their minds, is it not?
If you vote third party, your vote is an extension of your true self. If you vote for a potential winner just out of the likeliness they'll win, is that really "you"?
Same logic if you don't vote. In Australia, voting is a requirement for all citizens, and it's disastrous because you end up with people who just don't care filling up some random candidate's score, so the outcome doesn't reflect what people actually want.
I'm judging the Trump voters, but I'm judging the Harris voters, too. You would think that support of genocide would be a deal-breaker for Democrats, but apparently not.
So as they are being killed, they can think "well, zarkanian didn't vote for the choice that might have improved my chances of not being killed, but at least it was a principled wrong choice"
Stein had huge support among Palestinian-Americans. She was the one that they were asking people to vote for. She was endorsed by several Arab-American organizations. This is because she was the only anti-genocide candidate on enough ballots to win.
Why would they want me to vote for the administration that is not only funding their genocide, but has promised to never stop funding it?
They may have preferred the outcome where she won but that was never going to happen no matter how you voted. The possibility that your vote was the difference between Trump and Harris, on the other hand, was within the realm of possibility.
We need ranked choice voting. But at the moment we don't have it.
Is Trump planning on helping Palestinians? It always seemed a strange argument to me to use against the Democrats since I'm pretty sure the right would have done the exact same in regards to Israel.
Please prove me wrong, I'd love to see a silver lining to this situation.
Trump probably has more allegiance to Putin than he does to Netanyahu's money, which might mean forcing it to compromise on a compromise. But frankly, I've always seen US support of Israel as a means to drive out Russian influence in Israel, whose cooperation has increased the last few decades before becoming clouded with the latest conflict. The conflict with Iran and its proxies might stop, but Palestinians are still getting genocided, if anything with more of a focus.
This level of ignorance and spite is obscene and absolutely terrifying. This person is basically willing to let the whole world burn in the name of preventing a genocide that obviously won't be prevented but made even worse when the world starts burning. Out of spite.
Palestine and Ukraine is absolutely fucked under Trump, and it's your fucking fault for helping hand him the presidency. Think before you spew such ignorant bullshit next time.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you're dead to me. Friend, family, doesn't matter.
I wish I could say the same but I can't bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He's let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone's coming out of I'm within earshot... No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here's a quote saying so from the 90s.
I've thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I'm going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it's bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don't regret it to this day. I don't believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I'm not really willing to compromise certain morals.
This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.
I'm cutting them out completely. I can't stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.
This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don't visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.
From now on, if you're a trump supporter or you "sat this one out", I'm not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.
That's fine. I have no contact with his entire side of the family except one cousin for that very reason, but my dad isn't like them. I don't think he understands that he votes R because his family has always voted R. His vote is really the only thing I dislike about him.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn't have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he'd have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he'd have gone to the dark side. There's a real chance I wouldn't be talking to him right now if he did. I'm glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it's really nothing for me to do so as well.
Your poor father. You sound insufferable.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It's why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don't think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don't have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than "immigrants bad" or "Eggs expensive" - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that's what made Obama's campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message "Change".
What made you change your mind?
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don't have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that's a little less uh painful.
That's something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don't wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don't want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.
That's fair...
I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there's no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.
child rapist, Kate was 12
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn't.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn't.
Trump is a creature of consequences.
But also much like most consequences at scale, those that pay the most of the price are not those who brought the consequences on
agree, no argument, just clarifying.
Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.
Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.
It's not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
Oligarchy if we're lucky...
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries' representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I'm not in the USA. But it's not like this doesn't fuck over the rest of the world too.
I've heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don't succeed, because people don't want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
I guess it didn't work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?
Seems pretty easy to avoid.
And Bernie took his goddamn honeymoon in the USSR, I imagine they could have bugged every room he entered if they wanted to.
Both are about as loyal as any Dem foot soldiers you could name. Sanders, in particular, has been at least as zealous on Israel as Biden throughout his career.
Bernie disagrees with the Neoliberal rhetoric and wants to save capitalism from itself. But he's staunchly partisan.
If anyone could use some Compromat its Manchin
There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let's not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.
The GOP has normalized this shit, sadly. That's why.
It's time for Josh Duggar to run for office
Bring out R Kelly
The two of them together make the dream team
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I'm not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it's a dangerous concept.
As an example, Trump didn't get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.
Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don't fucking matter when real ones aren't a hurdle to getting elected.
Lol right? Let's stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let's stop silencing victims' stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn't matter anyway, it doesn't hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I'm so fucking done with that line of speech now.
Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.
I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.
Perhaps they'll fragment after he dies? A lot of dictatorships don't survive the death of the supreme leader
You should already be hopeless considering the current administration is aiding genocide.
Still at it... She lost, dude. Go away.
Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.
I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.
Pardon my ignorance as a non-American, but which out of the four was the option for (possibly) ending the genocide?
This might come as a surprise, but the people opposing the genocide did not magically disappear. Almost like they were not a Russian troll farm but real people with morals and values.
You hoped, "we" didnt "recognize". If Harris was going to end it she would have said so in the few days before the election. She proved pretty thoroughly that was never going to stop taking that AIPAC money.
They should, yes. (I'm not American.)
they had every right to be frustrated with how things are, but this will not fix anything and they will find out very quickly. its a shame.
The problem with simply being "frustrated" about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that "something" is fucking fascism, you're an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
If they were going to realize it, they would've realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They'll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they're hating that day.
The shame is that they won't care. These people will just find another scapegoat and punt the ball down the line.
This tweet assumes people care about OPs opinion, or histories opinion. It's a toothless threat trying to invoke some Boogeyman of future retribution. Anyone who voted for Trump is going to be doing the Jennifer Lawrence "ok" reaction to this.
I've family that voted for Trump. Had plans on spending Thanksgiving there. Told them I'm not coming, and told them why. Explained that I'll be happy to apologize if the next four years goes well. Otherwise, I'm holding them accountable. I love them, but I will not associate with them.
I'm done with the "they're family, you have to accept them." Bullshit.
I warned my wife if her dad makes the mistake of showing his bitch ass face to me again he's dead, she was smart enough to already know
Fucker already literally threatened my life twice before on top of all the other horrid shit he's done, and now he knows hes not allowed near his favorite daughter or he's pig food
Sounds like there’s more there than just voting wrong
And should things turn around and the overwhelming consensus somehow turns against Trump (seems highly unlikely currently), people will just lie about having supported him.
And all the fucking clowns that decided to stay home will still try to claim the moral high ground by claiming they supported neither.
The dnc leadership are the real clowns here. They set up this no-win hostage situation and now the hostages are dead and people want to blame everyone except Biden and Harris for it.
So why bother having you're own morals and opinions, is what you're saying.
No thanks.
Less people voted Trump in 2024 than in 2020. It is not that Trump won, it is that Biden/Harris lost hard.
Trump: 74 Mio. in 2020, 73 Mio. in 2024
Biden/Harris: 81 Mio. in 2020, 69 Mio. in 2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
No. It is that Trump won with the support of over 70 million Americans. People are responsible for their choices. jfc
Everyone saying Trumps totals didn't change, yes, but their composition absolutely did change. But even that is besides the point. Even if they staged exactly the same, that's still really fucking problematic and its absurd to give these people cover for being shitasses.
Trump didnt gain or loose many voters.
Biden/Harris lost a lot of voters.
So really the change between 2020 and 2024 is not a popularity increase for Trump, but a huge popularity loss for Biden/Harris.
Now the question is, how did Biden/Harris manage to be so unpopular, that 12 million people decided to rather risk Trump winning, than vote for them again?
Answer : Russian propaganda about Harris supporting a genocide, while blatantly dodging the question of trumps desire for Israel to "finish the job".
People are gonna get exactly what they voted for (or really, failed to vote against) in the next 4 years.
So its not true then, its just propoganda?
Propaganda does not mean lies.
It's the same group voting trump, nothing changed there, but what did change I wonder....
Yeah, Dems should have been able to put a wet turd on the ticket and beat Trump. The people who voted for Trump are the actual problem.
Doesn't your first statement imply that the dems flubbed an easy victory? Combined with the fact that Trump didn't gain many voters? If the election was supposed to be that easy to win, isn't it the dem campaign strat that is the problem? HEY WHITE WOMEN YOU LIKE LETHAL MILITARY?
I'm saying Dems did better than a wet turd, and a wet turd should have been enough.
Anyone who chose to vote for Trump was the actual problem, whether they voted for him before or not. They chose violence.
Anyone not voting for Harris, really
Well apparently not it wasnt enough. Either the wet turd wasn't enough or they didn't do better than one. Either way, you're acting like a Democrat right now. "It's the voters who are wrong!"
The voters (and non-voters) are wrong. That isn't acting like a Democrat, that is acknowledging that the election results were putting a fucking felon who tried to overthrow the government back into office and that is the stupidest fucking outcome possible.
That is the country kicking itself in the dick. We played ourselves.
I'd really like to have 100 randomly chosen Trump voters in a room and interview them to find out how knowledgeable they are about Trump, about his policies, about his first term, about the criminal cases, etc.
My guess is that at least 90% of them are brainwashed. I'm sure there are some that are completely aware of his record and are either single issue voters who are voting only on abortion. Some may be multi-millionaires who are voting just for lower taxes and don't care about anything else. But, anybody who voted for him because of inflation / the economy has no idea what they're talking about. Inflation was a worldwide problem and Trump's policies made / will make it worse. Anybody who voted for him because he's going to "fix immigration" has no idea what they're doing because his policies are incoherent and will never work. Anybody who voted for him because of Gaza is an absolute moron because he's just going to encourage the genocide.
I see these videos on tiktok. You would think it was fun but it's kinda like talking to a brick. There is no logic.
Trump and his fascists deserve most of the blame, but I fear that liberals won't learn from this. Realpolitik is bullshit. When you promise to help people but then sell us out to lobbyists and the donor class decade after decade after decade, then people lose all faith in institutions. Facts don't matter because those facts were used to gaslight time and time again.
The Democrats expended a ton of political capital bailing out the teamsters pensions and they didn't even earn an endorsement from them.
Arizona had a ton of money and jobs pumped into it with the CHIPS act and it went for Trump.
Delivering on promises and improving people's material conditions didn't move the needle at all.
Voters don't care about policy, they care about the President being a charismatic man who reminds them of their dad.
They didn't improve people's material conditions. They did some things that may help in several years, but did fuck all for the suffering people were feeling. They went even further to deny those feelings to people's face.
I guess you're right, if you're a teamster whose pension just got saved, that's something you won't appreciate for a dozen or so years.
So clearly, stuff like that is a crapshoot and will never be attempted again. The only thing politicians will do is subsidize purchases for goods and services.
No national healthcare insurance because people won't appreciate that until they're sick. So just send out checks for 600 dollars to make things a little easier on people, it's way cheaper too.
What you see on TikTok are the most entertaining videos. I have no idea if they have to cut out 2% of the videos because they're not entertaining, or 50% or 98%.
You're just pitching a story the NYT and the WaPo run regularly. "I heard it on a podcast, I heard it on FOX News, I heard it at church". That's the response you get.
Don't trust liberals to give you the news. Only trust conservatives. Viola! Now you'll have a strong Republican dogma.
Viola?
I judge you for your literal inability to detect hostility and scams.
We have SO MUCH EVIDENCE that Trump is a Russian asset who Russia has Kompromat on (see American Kompromat by Unger). We are at war with Russia and previously were at war with them for decades. And we don't think Putin wants revenge? Look at what happened to Navalny.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts. Almost as if he's a foreign fucking asset harming the US as much as possible in a proxy war. He has a history of violence, abuse, and grifting. How can people be so naive? Literal wolf in wolf's clothing with neon signs saying "I'm a wolf and I will eat you."
Both 2024 and 2016 were total punts by the Democratic party, elections that could have easily been won in large margins, but defeat pulled from the jaws of victory in a way that seemingly only they can.
People know if they live in battleground/swing states. And still, the fact is that despite Trump getting FEWER votes than last time (which is an election he LOST, by the way), he WON this time, simply because millions of blue voters in those key states decided they'd rather not vote at ALL, than vote for the Democrats' candidate.
There is no excuse for the results of either of these elections, honestly. It's fucking embarrassing.
Don’t forget they almost lost 2020 as well had it not been for covid they definitely would of lost.
If they'd lost in 2020 the Trump nightmare would be ending in a couple months instead of beginning anew.
LOL that you think it would be ending.
See that's the problem. "Experts" is a bad word to people like this because it makes them feel stupid in and inferior.
That is their problem, of course, but they have made it all our problem.
An unusual counterpoint. The 'krompomat' the Russians wasn't really proven, and at this stage I think if they threaten him with releasing whatever Trump can just go 'LOL like I give a fuck. You seen the shit I did to their face? They still voted for me!'
Unger's book is extensive and quite established. He is a journalist.
And all narcissists care about is their ego. He gives so many fucks.
Many of those people could have been swayed to vote democrat if the democrats fucking addressed the actual fucking issues and actually gave them a damn narrative to go by. Saying everything is fine when nothing is fine and the Republicans are constantly screwing them over (while also 100% deflecting ALL blame elsewhere) is delusional at best.
Also fuck AIPAC.
I've done a lot of posts critical of the posture and actions of the Democrat Party and their whole "If you don't vote you're voting Trump" propaganda (which are right there in my post history with lots of for and against votes), but as I see it the point being made by this tweet is different.
I don't read this tweet as being about people who didn't vote at all because the present day Democrat party, Democrat Candidate and Democrat President's actions didn't appeal to them (which is what seems to be responsible for the Democrat loss), I think it's about people who actually explicitly voted Trump (so, none of that "implictly voting Trump if you don't vote" bollocks but actually putting their vote on Trump)
And I absolutelly agree with this tweet: that man is a complete total worm - in everything from what he's done to what he says and even his body language - and on top of that was offering scapegoating and hate as policies.
I can get it that some people couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Genocidal ethno-Fascist supporting, pro-Oligarchy hard-right Neoliberal, slimy snakesoil salesman liar Democrats, but anybody actually voting Trump is not simply distrusting of or dissapointed with the modern day Democrat Party, they're active supporters of an even broader and deeper kind of nastiness.
While reading the beginning of this comment, I thought I had actually witnessed a "genocide joe" moron admit they were wrong... But nope.
Never gonna happen, is it?
Clearly in your mind people can only be one of two things: for your tribe and all it stands for or against your tribe and all it stands for.
This is exactly the same simpleton take on human beings and Politics as far-right muppets such as Trumpists have.
It's not surprising you called me moron: Psychological Projection is also another trait of simpleton tribalists.
We've already been through this. It's so very tiring. I'm over it. If you're a trump supporter, then fuck you. That's all. Goodbye.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren't going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
They don't think rationally, is the problem.
Do you understand how many times we've tried this already? They are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lies, and projection.
I'm not saying we need to destroy them or anything, but this shit has gone too far. We need to try way harder to fight back against their hateful, regressive bullshit at this point.
No, the people that voted for Trump in this election will never vote for a non republican candidate regardless of how much you try to appease them. IMO you're more likely to lose even more voters than you stand to gain taking this approach. The democrats need to come up with a vision and candidate that is neither Harris, Biden, and certainly not anything close to Trump. They need someone that will make non-voters believe that there's a good chance their life will improve enough to make voting worthwhile.
bitch pls. history gonna get over written with trumps magic fucking marker.
It's gonna be wild to see how different the American history curriculum is inside vs outside of the US in a few years.
Not just history, science, probably math, etc.
They don't want problem solvers or critical thinking skills, they want to create a class of low skilled, low intelligence, baby breeding, obedient working class people.
The owning class will be educated through private institutions.
This is already how it is. Our public schools are underfunded to the point of being useless. The lack of quality public education is how you end up with this many idiots voting for trump in the first place.
That, and religious indoctrination destroying any chance they had at developing critical thinking skills.
Please. It is a half eaten crayon.
Remember the time we elected a child rapist twice, pretty cool huh
Let's do worse next time. A land lord or a cop!
This is the landlord…
That’s where all of the wealth he pissed away came from
Oh yeah, you're right.
My plan is to simply avoid ALL contact with MAGAs unless I'm forced to work with them. The same way you would avoid a meth-addled pit bull.
I'm not going to let them think their point of view is "fine" by pretending to be civil to them. It's not.
Well... I do judge them for their choice in political party when that party's entire platform is built up on those things.
My unfortunate observation is the majority of people who voted for Trump don't pay any attention to current events and basically get their news via rumor. But if you want the true culprit, it's the 15 million Democrats that voted last time but not this time. The votes for Trump actually went down compared to last time.
I fit was a few million less I would blame voter suppression via things like purging voter rolls. But the drop is so drastic it is clear the problem is that at least 10+ million people simply chose not to vote against an obvious threat to the country because the Dem candidate for President wasn't appealing enough.
Yea that's what they're saying isn't it. 15 million people vanished out of thin air. Interesting
Well 114 million people who could have voted this year didn't. It's a combination of apathy and laziness. We could be like Australia and mandate the vote.
Republicans won't allow it. They win when people don't vote, it's a fact. They now dominate the legislative, so you can forget about it.
The real solution is to raise the interest of people in politics. Look at the south.
Yeah I don't believe that for a fucking second to be honest with you, and I'm finding it difficult to not go insane with conspiracy theories about MAGA fucking with the vote counts, and becoming the same person I made fun of surrounding Jan 6 - except he has a proven record of being a cheat and all but outright stated his intent to cheat the election. I'm kind of dumbfounded that 3 hours after voting night closes the major news outlets are all reporting a Trump win which they couldn't possibly know yet, everyone takes this as fact and refuses to investigate any further. Official vote tally and certification isn't even until mid December by the usual schedule according to .gov sources.
Is it not just a little bit ridiculous to anyone else that in one of the most relentlessly politicized elections of the past century 15+ million people who voted last time suddenly didn't? 15 million people predominantly of the denominations that Trump and his goons particularly hate and wanted to silence? For that matter does anyone else find it strange that 45% of Latinos voted to deport themselves? I mean, some percentage I could expect, even up to like 20, I'd be disappointed but I'd understand, but 45%??
I am most certainly on some amount of copium here but I am incredibly surprised at the lack of any sort of investigation or push back or god damn anything surrounding what should certainly be contested results, at the very least. This feels very very fishy to me.
5 million trump voters didn't vote this time around.
Ap news had a good article about how our voting machines are completely vulnerable to first hand attacks. I think they figured out how to do it. They had a LOT of help.
That could be an explanation if there wasn't a massive drop in turnout, which has a paper trail.
Turnout is irrelevant when the ability to hack the machines is well known. https://apnews.com/article/election-security-voting-machines-software-2024-80a23479d8a767ba9333b2324c4e424b
Paper trail.
Hacking the machines would be useful for complaints that the counts weren't accurate, but wouldn't affect turnout. Republicans got the numbers they were expected to get, the lack of turnout hurt the Dems like it always does.
I agree. Let's do a paper ballot recount. See if they match what the machines say.
The religious fanatic psychopaths behind the scenes of MAGA, if successful in their goals, will ensure there is no history.
Dark times is an understatement.
I could understand Trump in 2016. I could also understand Trump in 2020 but much less. In 2024? Nahh... America voted for him in 2024 and I will judge Americans for it.
the only president in over 100 years to lose the popular vote twice. he won it his third time. unbelievable. as a rapist he's probably used to insisting after rejection until he wears them down.
Could you really understand Trump in 2016? I'm not asking to be mean. Wasn't his character the same back then? I've tuned out of US politics since the DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016.
He was a meanie and very unpresidential and Hillary was disliked (even by me) and people wanted something different. Now he has been shown he will literally go against any advisors and literally tried to overturn the 2020 election results. Literal anti-democratic traitor to america.
Yeah, it made zero sense then and it has never made sense.
in 2016 Trump was the one who mocked soldiers, was on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, vilifying immigrants, and being just as shitty as he is today. There was nothing understandable about voting for him in 2016.
Well said.
Unfortunately I don't think most of these people care about being judged, especially not by some future people who they'll never meet.
As long as they see benefits in the short term, they're happy, and if the benefits don't materialize or go away too quickly, then it's The Other Side's fault somehow.
Just something that's worth pointing out is that trumps voter base didn't change much. Counting is still happening, but so far it's trump -1 mil and Harris -13 million from last election.
So it's not so much that republicans voted badly it's that democrats lost a good chunk of votes (16%) didn't bother to vote this time.
And while I completely disagree with trumps side, it's insane, but at least I am happy that people voted. Voter apathy is far more dangerous to me. It's like saying to politicians, "I don't care that the nazi party is coming to power".
To me that's the biggest issue this election and honestly I don't understand why so few people cared. It's actually same story over here (UK), where we had fewer people voting this election than previous one.
It sounds like the Democrats just failed to present themselves as a viable alternative, or really inspire or motivate anyone to vote. Their platform seemed to be largely not being Trump.
When asked about healthcare, they said they had “concepts” of a plan.
Oh wait, no, that was the other guy.
The DNC and Biden failed us. His legacy will be tainted due to his failure to step aside for the nation. Kamala as a VP was already unpopular the DNC should've known they needed to choose someone who at least did well in the primaries or could actually fucking win.
I voted for her but I knew she probably wouldn't win, they don't fucking learn and then they blame us.
Even if you didn't vote for her, but voted either trump, 3rd party or spoilt vote, I respect that you voted. It's important to vote
Every interview where questions were asked about Kamala's positions, shed talk about trump. It was not all that different than trump shit talking kamala even.
Thats the 2020 platform. If you want to be a talking head you'll need some argument more cogent than that^
Voters in every western country have no idea what policies are being voted on. They vote with their feelings.
There are a lot of enthusiastic people who want to be on team man, team money, team military. The first thing those people learned after their names was that they were BOYS and they would be sorted into the BOYS section, play on BOYS team. Voting Conservative is a natural extension of what they've been doing their whole lives.
It's harder motivating people to get out for team women, team tolerance, team responsibility. It requires a leader with charisma who we fall in love with.
I'm being absolutely serious when I say the Democratic Party should have nominated George Clooney — a famous celebrity figurehead would guarantee they win every presidential election.
I propose a total halt to any sexual activity with any Trump supporter. This will go on for the 4 years that asshole is in power and until a reasonable president that is not a rapist racist asshole is elected. Sure that guy could be republican but I highly recommend elsewhere.
I don't get how anyone could ever be attracted to a trump supporter anyway. It's a massive massive turn off for me
There should be no statute of limitations.
This comment is not going to age well. Not because of your choice of partner. But you will see that next year, the two term rule will be removed
4B needs to become more popular in the US with ovulating people.
It won't guarantee safety from forced situations, but with the incoming total bans on abortion and contraceptives they're facing over there, flat out refusing to have sex, relationships, and marriages with men, is going to be the best way to stay safe and in control of their bodies and finances.
I judge them for being the most gullible dumbasses in the history of the world. How stupid you have to be to believe the shit that Trump says?
These are just the dumbest and most simple-minded people in the country.
Yup. Communication requires effort on the part of the sender and receiver. I reject the premise that anyone needed convincing by the Dems. If simply seeing the candidates speak wasn't enough, that portion if the electorate is not putting in the slightest effort to understand. There are many motivations for wilful ignorance. There were perhaps other explanations for Trumps win in '16. This time it's just that America would rather have a convicted felon as a president.
I never judge people who got scammed or tricked or whatever. It happens. But getting scammed by one of the dumbest people on the planet is almost an achievement. I'm not even hyperbolic here, i have not seen a person making so much mouth noises and saying so little at the same time. That guy tricked you? Not even a smart and charming guy? Pathetic.
People always wonder why Vince McMahon get away with all his shit. And i did too, because i kept up with his monstrosities for quite some time. But even watching his netflix documentary, and knowing what an absolute monster he is, i just could not help but finding him weirdly charming. I don't know what level of charisma he's blessed with but it's almost creepy. Donald has absolutely non of that.
Trump voters won't care about any of that shit until it impacts them personally. My family is moving from Indiana to Maryland because of this election which is really going to obliterate grandparents' time around our kids. Sucks for them we refuse to stay in a state that would actively destroy our kids' education and wellbeing. They can shell out whatever massively inflated airfare it'll cost them to come visit us in a place we can actually feel safe.
Wait until you're the grandparent and see how it's different then, and how would you'd think then
Maybe the grandparents shouldn't vote to directly harm their own grandchildren, and actively destroy their futures. Just a thought.
Sounds like gramma and grampa voted Trump, so maybe next time they'll make better choices. It's too late, of course, but that's the bed they made.
Yes the warped perscrptive informed from 50 years ago, when you had no choice but to trust the TV and newspapers, not like the world has changed since then.
You know what they call someone who votes for a fascist? A fascist.
I was thinking about this today, but I never thought I'd be living through, what I think of, as a major world event. This isn't a world War (in name), but the history books WILL likely bring up this period on the States. In what manner they're mentioned, good, bad, or indifferent, is yet to be seen. I imagine grandkids being bewildered when I tell them I lived through this... hopefully.
Give it time.
I'm an older X-er. I've had it up to here with major world events. Boring times. I want to live in BORING TIMES.
I feel very sure we can predict in what manner they will be mentioned. The question is how bad will it be.
What about the lack of turnout for KH? Am I reading the results wrong ? Was there not massive amounts on non voters? As much as I hate republicans the fence setters an uninformed have fucked us all outside the US
John Oliver's segment on Palestinians really cemented it for me: if your family was killed by a missile sold to them by Biden, it's really difficult to support his successor.
Sure you may not want the orange turd either.
But imagine the heartache of voting for the person related to the one who is responsible for the death of your family.
I know I can't. And a part of me feels for them.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim. No one stopped to tell Harris that Clinton lost.
Sanders warned her that if she wants a good turn out, she needs to have a plan for the working class.
Instead she wasted weeks trying to get Republican endorsements instead of trying to shore up her base.
She absolutely did not. Hillary leaned into the gender card hardcore. She had her supporters wearing t-shirts saying “I’m with her” with an arrow sign. She said “I’m not saying you should vote for me because I’m a woman, you should vote for me because of my qualifications. But one of my qualifications is…I’M A WOMAN!!!”
Kamala didn’t lean into any of this demographics, gender war trash. She (wisely) followed Barack Obama’s playbook of leaving the identify politics crap at the door. She lost for other reasons. Hillary alienated voters by leaning too hard into identity politics. Kamala ran a much better campaign than Hillary. They are not the same. Why Kamala lost will be debated for some time at least, but it will not be concluded reasonably that she lost for the same reasons Hillary lost in 2016. I know people want to conclude that women just can’t get elected, but we haven’t yet had a female candidate that ran a great campaign. As someone who wants our first female president, I have to reluctantly admit that we’ve been underserved by our female politicians thus far. I have high hopes for AOC in the future, but we’ll have to wait and see how that plays out. I don’t actually think Kamala did anything wrong in her campaign; I just think she was working against the legacy set by her predecessor, and it was too much. That, and too many American voters are stupid, ignorant, misguided voters. And, probably, some Pro-Palestinian voters had their heads up their asses.
Don't forget running to the right in an attempt to court R voters (just what every D constituent wants!) who (as usual) did NOT show up for her.
Every fucking election 'moderate' Republicans play the part of Lucy and Dems play the part of Charlie Brown
And here I am thinking Lucy is establishment dems and Charlie Brows is progressives.
That would also fit.
Another would be Charlie as people who want police reform and Lucy being the Dems.
And she lost a race against the clock by starting her campaign in the eleventh hour. Those Google search trends showed that somehow a nonzero amount of voters didn't even know she was the candidate and Biden had dropped out.
So many different variables in the mix make this election hard to compare to prior elections like 2016.
I chose to vote for Harris despite this because Trump would be no better on this, so effectively the issue wasn't up for vote and I could only vote on the other issues that were different between them. But very bluntly, I don't blame Arabs and Muslims for not voting for Harris. They have one of the strongest grievances one could possibly have (i.e. second only to attacks directly on them personally, in the U.S.), and the dismissiveness from Biden (and Harris) was downright insulting.
A part of me does feel like Biden chose Israel over Americans. I don't know if changing course on this would have changed the election, and I guess it's impossible to truly know.
The problem for the Democrats is that the tent is very big. There are a lot of issues and a lot of people who care about very different things.
Gaza, unfortunately, was one of those. We had people who grit their teeth and voted Harris even though it was going to hurt them.
On the other side, Jewish zionists would have absolutely turned on Harris if she fully supported Palestine. Harris made a pragmatic choice to not alienate the zionists in the hopes that her opponent would be so toxic that Palestinians would see the lesser of two evils.
The really frustrating thing is Republicans don't have to run this kind of campaign. They can run a campaign on shit, fantasy, and rumor and their base will still show up and vote.
I certainly do judge any Trump voter as being either terribly naive or a truly bad person. However, broadcasting that message is going to change nothing and only serves as copium for the anti-Trump crowd.
What is going to sway people who have voted for Trump in the past and are not completely lost to the cult of personality is being a champion for radical change that benefits the middle class. The Harris platform evidently did not go far enough to convince enough voters they would see any meaningful change. Nor did the Clinton or Biden platforms, Biden was only lucky enough that his policies were effectively irrelevant in contest with Trump's disastrous mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic response.
We can't hope for another deadly crisis to get us out of this one.
If champion for radical change that benefits the middle class was that important Trump would not have won.
I would argue that he most definitely is a champion for radical change and that's why he won. "Drain the swamp", "Dictator on day one", " He says it like it is" are all things that deviate dramatically from the status quo of political etiquette. Trump is willing to break political norms to get what he wants and evidently voters think his interests align with their own.
Obviously, this isn't the kind of radical change you or I are hoping for but it certainly is radical. Meanwhile, the Dems are playing it safe in an attempt to appeal broadly and not upset too many people. And we've seen for the last decade that gets us at best legislation which has been gutted to the point where it does effectively nothing for the majority of Americans.
Student loan forgiveness, ACA, CHIPS act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Bipartisan Infrastructure were all huge gains for the majority of Americans
Most of these accomplishments, while they do benefit the middle class, are largely invisible to the average American who's not perpetually following politics.
Student loan forgiveness only directly affects people who go to college, an increasingly less popular/accessible career path amongst the working class. It also has restrictions and has been facing legal challenges, both of which limit its effectiveness.
Lower prescription drug costs are only really visible to people who are taking prescription drugs long-term and doesn't prevent the healthcare system from bankrupting you in countless other ways.
The Affordable Care Act is arguably the single most significant accomplishment for the Democratic party in my millennial lifetime and if it survives to the next election cycle it will be old enough to vote in it.
As for the rest, improving infrastructure moves too slowly for people to notice in the short-term and despite the efforts to slow them we are still facing record increases to the cost of living and job insecurity.
The working class is getting desperate, people are worried about how they're going to keep up with rising grocery prices or whether they'll get laid off from their job when they're living paycheck to paycheck. If you don't own a home yet you're likely questioning whether homeownership will ever be within reach while your landlord increases your rent for no apparent reason other than greed.
In a relative sense to the struggles the working class has been facing coming out of the pandemic, the Democrats have thrown them bones, told them the economy is great, in fact it's the best in the world when you know for a fact you were better off before the pandemic.
Do we know tariffs and mass deportations aren't going to make anything better? Do we know things are likely to get a lot worse? Are we the average American? The results of the election prove that we aren't.
Thanksgiving will be the real test if people really mean it.
How so? My dad voted for Trump's fascism, but my mom did not. I am not going to avoid my mom just to punish my dad.
Host Thanksgiving and only invite your mom.
Yes
I just judge them for being fucking idiots.
This condescending attitude is almost ok when it's done by voters, the problem is tgat the dem party constantly acts insufferably towards potential voters.
It is a party's duty to appeal to the people, not the other way around. The dems proved once again that acting like "the least worst option" doesn't work, especially in a disinformation economy like the US and frankly the rest of the world. It's not the 2000's anymore, respectability politics are hated by most voters.
Anyone that brought up your points earlier this year was dog-piled and being called a tankie or Russian shill. God forbid a powerless user on this website brought up an ounce of criticism towards the party or else it was as if every loyalist was experiencing their own personal 9/11
Got called a shill because I said that Bill Clinton (who someone else brought up in the thread) sexually assaulted Monica Lewinsky because their relationships was a clear abuse of power; it wasn't consensual cheating due to the power differences in age, jobs, he was her employer, the president of the country, etc. And boy did the guys come out in full defense of Clinton, the man who rode on Epstein's plane, while screaming at me that I need therapy for bringing this up and being upset about it, and this will cost Kamala the election. Nevermind current victims or court proceedings or the public's right to know what their president was raping during his presidency.
Further, she was a prosecutor. Had she run on Epstein/Diddy "I will be tough on these sex traffickers, including Trump and Clinton," she would have won. Unfortunately, she ran on "not Trump." That's like telling a person to not think of a bear.
I said this repeatedly. I told them I was voting for Kamala and I wanted her to win, which is why I was requesting they change their speech.
Additionally, if you did not vote for Harris I will judge you.
This is the third fucking time Democrats have run with an establishment candidate.
I voted Harris but I knew she was a shit candidate and not who we needed to go against Trump. She couldn't even primary ffs.
The DNC is squarely to blame, every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking changes. You can't keep putting up generic neocon establishment hand-picked candidates and expect turnout.
I blame all the voters that were fine with voting for Trump first, because they looked at that shit stain and thought he would be acceptable as the leader of the country. The people that voted for him are the problem.
Harris still did a terrible job, sure. But a literal pile of dogshit should have been a preferable option to Trump.
No I think it's time to look inwards now. The only people to blame is ourselves and the trust we put into the DNC. They have broken our trust over and over again. It's fucking time to rip the bandaid off and just focus on organizing and rooting out the people and issues that led to this failure in leadership. I don't think I'm being dramatic in saying: they have completely failed us and robbed us of a secure future. I'm young, and this supreme court and all the shit to come is going to haunt me until the day I die. I'm fucking livid.
Maga has done the hard work and organized. We aren't entitled to rule with no leadership.
Genocide is a redline for me, though I understand why to many Harris voters the mass slaughter of people halfway across the world is a non-issue.
Edit: “If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Of course it's a fucking issue! Do you think it will be better now that Netanyahu got the person be wanted in the white house?! My god how short sighted are you!
Well thank God you stopped that regular genocide from happening from a first term president who we can leverage public support against if she wanted a second term.... And instead transformed it into a much faster and crueler genocide by a second term fascist who openly said we will never vote again and who wants to deport 25million Latinos out of this country (also a genocide fyi).
You guys really helped out those people in Gaza, sure thing. Look at how much you achieved. Next you'll vote for mass gas chambers instead of individual lethal injection because you're against the death penalty.
Your stance strikes me as performative. As everyone's lives are getting harder, including the people you claim to be prioritizing, that's okay because at least your hands are clean. That's the most important thing to you, that everyone knows you personally are pure.
The majority of the blame lays with the DNC, the GOP, and those that voted for Trump. But you will also share a portion of the blame, even if you deny and refuse to take responsibility for it, we all lay it on your shoulders anyways.
Why on earth do you think Trump is going to result in the slaughter of fewer of those people?
I don’t so I didn’t vote for him. But I wasn’t going to vote for the party that enabled the past 400 days of genocide and then sent Bill Clinton to explain to voters in Michigan how 40,000 dead Palestinians is not enough, either.
It would have been amazing if you had an option of a third outcome, but the reality is you didn't. Life is full of situations where you have to pick between things that are both distasteful. But the trolley problem illustrates that opting out to avoid it is not an option at much as you try to convince yourself that it is.
The horrors that are to come on partially on your head.
Meaning that if they are ever held accountable, they will say they never voted for Trump and burn anything that could ever indicate so.
Trump had the same amount of votes or similar to last time. Harris lost a shit ton of votes, so I don't blame Trump voters. I blame Harris for running such a shit campaign.
"I don't judge you for your political party" hurrr fucking durr from a tiny mind trying to sound intelligent
The Fucking Republicans have been threatening and working towards ripping away protects from Brown people since The Southern Strategy in 1964, Andrea Junker trying to be cute, going high, and ridiculously trying to split this hair is insulting to the decades of fighting Democrats had to wage to keep Roe, and Voting Rights as long as they did while the Fucking Republicans tried every Congress under every President to strip them away
If you vote Fucking Republican, you are a Fucking Racist, and I blame you squarely for both who you vote for, and what political fucking party you belong to
"I don't judge you ...." fuck off I need a shower
tfw you read the first sentence but don't make it to the second ;(
Ironically i had the same urge reading the first sentence of their comment. After reading the whole thing, I feel kind of dumb hoping to find redemption by the end of it.
Regrettably most of these people saw an avenue they thought would benefit them economically.
They didn't vote with their brains, they voted with their wallet and based on what they've heard.
The fact that anyone not in the 1% keeps falling for Republican economic policy shows how fucking stupid the US population is.
That's the fault of the democratic party. They know the level of education the population holds.
Furthermore, I think this is an ideological issue. Liberalism isn't working anymore.
The image has disappeared
Your memes mean nothing to me, you fascist sympathiser.
People don't care about any of those things if they can't feed their families.
All aboard, everyone! Set sail on the S.S. Righteous Indignation....
America is in a tight spot right now. Claiming moral highground does nothing to help the situation.
I'm not American, but I would have voted for him the first time around.
I was bored. Bored with life. Let's fuck shit up by putting some crazy in office. Even better that I don't live there so I get to grab the popcorn and watch the crazy.
But by the end of it, I was sooo done. I just wanted it to calm down and go back to normal.
There is no way I would have voted for him this time. And frankly I am disappointed in anyone who did.
Because you were doing it for fun, they were doing it because their lives are getting worse and wanted any change. Shows how shit the US experience is that this was preferable to continuing on.
Their lives were getting worse because of Republican policies that couldn't be fixed because of Republican obstruction to reform.
They are morons for voting for the cause of their problems just because the source of the problem wasn't creating new ones.
Having such a an ego that they think trumpians care about their or anyone's judgement or opinion.
If the shoe fits...
“If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump ’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Legit. And the same goes for anyone who voted kamalacaust.
Can we stop with all this bullshit? Im not even and American and i cant stand the cry anymore. People voted, its democracy, it is what it is, get over it
Sheesh.. all these liberal tears are going to sustain me for years.
Lol we don't have years. AMOC collapse is here and you all are defunding NOAA. What type of climate change related disaster do you think you'll die from? A flood like in Spain, Bogota, Japan, North Carolina? A hurricane like in Cuba and Florida? A volcano or earthquake (and yes those are getting worse due to climate change)? Maybe a polar vortex freeze, a tornado, or a forest fire? Perhaps just simple extreme heat? Who knows? I can't wait to find out tbh :)
Then you should be fair and judge harris in a similar way. For supporting and being a part of genocide.
There'll be a genocide under Trump too
And it will be far far far worse.
All of these "it's genocide, it cannot get worse" fools are in for a rude awakening. Assuming they actually give a shit.
If you didn't vote Harris because of genocide then you're a fucking moron. Trump is just going to cut Bibi a blank cheque to pave Palestine with bodies and then move on to Iran. Good job choosing the greater of two evils!
But go ahead and pat yourself on the back for staying home.
I absolutely would have judged her in a similar way had she won. But right now, she's the Vice President, and has zero say (unless its to break a tie in the Senate) on this policy whatsoever.
So why would I judge her for "supporting and being part of a genocide"? See how this works? You elect her first, then you pressure her to do the thing that you know for certain the other guy will never do.
Surely hating everyone in America isn’t the answer
It’s a good fucking start.
Okay, you're better than them. Happy?
They weren't thinking about everything you're thinking about. They're just trying to buy eggs.
The problem is that they don't know or care that eggs are expensive because of bird flu. They just want to justify their vote outside of the prejudices they don't want to say out loud.
Sorry I mentioned eggs. I Just meant inflation.
You're just plain wrong to say everyone who voted for Trump did so out of racism, misogyny, or transphobia.
I voted for Kamala, but I'm not in favor of everything she stands for. I didn't want Trump. Does it mean I hate Palestinians that I voted for Kamala?
It doesn't mean that you hate Palestinians. It just means that genocide wasn't a deal-breaker for you.
Exactly! We have a TON of people here hating on Trump voters for a potential genocide (if he happens to follow through, and not be talking shit again), yet being perfectly ok with continuing the actual genocide killing boys and girls in Gaza.
Because, the potential genocide is about them and not brown people.
Maybe they should think a little harder next time. And by a little harder I mean literally at all
It is so odd and counterproductive to me to take this position. "Vote how I want or Ill hate you because Im a better person than you." Yeah, that will really bring those votes in by the millions. Instead of acting like a child why not learn about these peoples' lives and attempt to understand why they voted the way they did? Why did Democrats lose the male vote, the independent vote, half of Latinos, and all 7 swing states? It is ignorant and lazy to call them all the isms, go and actually learn why you lost.
You have a good point that understanding the voter is a good path to figuring out how to fix this in the future.
We still get to judge them for being awful people, because fooled or not, they effectively are
Dig deep enough in any awful begaviour and you can find causes and explanations, but that doesn't make every behaviour ok
And Harris voters behavior is equally awful, they overlooked a genocide to vote for her to “prevent fascism” and “protect democracy” meanwhile the democrat party doesn’t participate in democracy or we would of had a real primary.
The only two possible outcomes were
genocide
genocide plus fascism and other bad shit
By voting third party, you supported the latter.
Sure, killing the two party system is the long term solution, but this particular election was not the time.
A third outcome would have been to demand the dems not support it by voting uncommitted and talking about it as an issue the voters cared about. Bide/Harris could have changed their mind at any time, and they decided not to. each voter had 1/400 millionth of the choice that Biden Harris had. Dems should blame them for their choices.
By voting third party I SUPPORTED THE THIRD PARTY.
Fuck outta here with your liberal bullshit. Go be mad at the DNC for royally fucking this up.
You supported genocide AND anti democratic behavior (refusing a primary and forcing their unpopular unelected candidate down our throats then chastising us for voting wrong) and you have the FUCKING NERVE to pretend you give a flying fuck about fascism or democracy? Go back to fucking brunch lib.
You could have voted for your next door neighbor too and told yourself you were voting against genocide, but you'd be wrong then too.
You didn't support the third party's chances of winning because there was no way that was going to ever happen in this election. Elections aren't about voting for candidates as much as they are voting for outcomes.
The word liberal is not the insult you think it is.
Liberal is definitely an insult. It means having no morals or ethics or inherent beliefs and just voting blue no matter who, no matter who they genocide. It’s pathetic.
How’s chastising voters for voting wrong working out for you? You ready to lose 2028 too?
If you look at the dictionary definition, it means pretty much exactly the opposite of what you said. Also, the D party is not highly aligned with the definition of liberal, so you're also wrong about it meaning always voting blue.
Congratulations on pissing your vote away, I guess.
Oh no! I'm shaking in my little boots. Your opinion matters so much, Andrea. For the record though, I'm with you in principal, I just don't care about your opinion.
Yes yes blame voters. Keep doing that. Great strategy. Do not blame the DNC.
We shouldn't blame Trump voters for the results of their vote? Why not?
Voters (and people who chose not to vote) are to blame. Fuck off.
So you are to blame for a third party not winning?
See how this does not make any sense
“It’s everyone’s fault but my candidate’s and their party for losing!”
"Its everyone else's fault but my own that I chose the misogynistic racist."
It wouldn't have mattered what the dems did. Trump offered the most concessions to the ultra wealthy. Just like when the Democrats win, thats what decides it.
They did not. Less people voted for Trump than before. There are statistically less racists and mysoginists than before. You should be happy right?
That makes no sense.
There were less Trump voters. And even less Harris voters. People do not want right wing garbage. Ask the DNC to stop shoving it in their faces.
I voted third party. Go on and cry about it liberal.
You’re not pushing your candidate to the left after being out to brunch for the past four years and overlooking a genocide, you’re being pulled right and you think you’re “protecting democracy” by voting for a candidate that not a single vote went to in a primary, and “preventing fascism” by funding the israelis in their genocide.
Unless you're a literal armed radical, you'd be considered just another kind of liberal too.
Did you vote for a misogynistic racist? I thought you'd voted third party and not trump? You seem to have a guilty conscience.
I voted third party. I didn’t vote for the piece of shit orange buffoon, but it’s really telling that the DNC lost this fucking badly to him. They’re not incompetent, no no, the voters are evil scum of the earth!
They don't realize that by being angry at their fellow man they them away.
Por que no los dos?
It's day four of Trump being in office and I've already been ghosted by dozens of people for the crime of not voting. Because, you know, immigrants who can't vote are expected to vote too.
Trump isn’t in office until he’s sworn in mid January.
Also simultaneously LOL and I’m really sorry. Those people are not only stupid but not your friends.
Well they're certainly not now.
Sorry, that’s really hard. I went through a bad friend break up recently that had nothing to do with politics and it sucks ass.
Wait, what, you didn't vote? GAAHH! Yeah not important at all.
A non citizen CAN’T VOTE!
I voted third party. Cry about it.
That's what I always choose.
Idk what's worse: not voting and making your voice useless out of apathy or laziness, or voting third party and making sure your voice means nothing on purpose.
The whole point of a democracy is people speak their minds, is it not?
If you vote third party, your vote is an extension of your true self. If you vote for a potential winner just out of the likeliness they'll win, is that really "you"?
Same logic if you don't vote. In Australia, voting is a requirement for all citizens, and it's disastrous because you end up with people who just don't care filling up some random candidate's score, so the outcome doesn't reflect what people actually want.
Your true self is a waste of time.
How did you vote third party if you can't vote?
Reading comprehension is hard. I’m a US citizen, the original comment I replied to is that of an immigrant who can’t legally vote.
I'm judging the Trump voters, but I'm judging the Harris voters, too. You would think that support of genocide would be a deal-breaker for Democrats, but apparently not.
Right, because there was a real solution we just never noticed!
Yes, exactly.
Feel free to elaborate. It seems that no one thinks you're talking about anything of any substance. Prove us wrong.
We just saw what splitting the dems does.
Yup. Morons who didn't vote for Harris "because genocide" now get to watch Trump cut Bibi a blank cheque. Genocide will accelerate. Good job, morons.
Harris split the dems so she could take AIPAC cash, and here we all are. Give credit where its due.
Do you really think Trump cares about Gaza let alone anyone?
Israel buys a couple hundred million of dtj stock and they can do whatever they want, that's how it works now.
Oh, I wasn't defending Trump. He's terrible, too.
You were defending Trump implicitly though.
And you voted for him implicitly when you stayed home.
And before the "wah that's not how it works" reply: yes it is.
I didn't stay home. I voted for Jill Stein.
So as they are being killed, they can think "well, zarkanian didn't vote for the choice that might have improved my chances of not being killed, but at least it was a principled wrong choice"
Stein had huge support among Palestinian-Americans. She was the one that they were asking people to vote for. She was endorsed by several Arab-American organizations. This is because she was the only anti-genocide candidate on enough ballots to win.
Why would they want me to vote for the administration that is not only funding their genocide, but has promised to never stop funding it?
They may have preferred the outcome where she won but that was never going to happen no matter how you voted. The possibility that your vote was the difference between Trump and Harris, on the other hand, was within the realm of possibility.
We need ranked choice voting. But at the moment we don't have it.
Cope and seethe.
If you voted for Harris I blame you for overlooking a fucking genocide.
After all, trump supporters are “overlooking fascism” to punish the biden admin for the gaslighting over inflation.
Is Trump planning on helping Palestinians? It always seemed a strange argument to me to use against the Democrats since I'm pretty sure the right would have done the exact same in regards to Israel. Please prove me wrong, I'd love to see a silver lining to this situation.
There fucking isn't one, and there might never be again.
Trump probably has more allegiance to Putin than he does to Netanyahu's money, which might mean forcing it to compromise on a compromise. But frankly, I've always seen US support of Israel as a means to drive out Russian influence in Israel, whose cooperation has increased the last few decades before becoming clouded with the latest conflict. The conflict with Iran and its proxies might stop, but Palestinians are still getting genocided, if anything with more of a focus.
Are biden/Harris planning on helping the Palestinians when they continue to fund and arm israel in the genocide?
They’re the same.
This level of ignorance and spite is obscene and absolutely terrifying. This person is basically willing to let the whole world burn in the name of preventing a genocide that obviously won't be prevented but made even worse when the world starts burning. Out of spite.
Absolutely terrifying.
The whole genocide thing is funny because Trump won't do anything about it either.
The people who chose not to vote for Harris because of it are even bigger idiots than people who voted for Trump.
Palestine and Ukraine is absolutely fucked under Trump, and it's your fucking fault for helping hand him the presidency. Think before you spew such ignorant bullshit next time.