Once you take into account registered voters versus eligible citizens, and the turnout of registered voters... It actually comes out to more like 25% of eligible citizens actually voting, and that's on the high side.
Nope, 1/3 of the population never votes. That's around 100 million people. And neither party has close to 50% of the US population, so it doesn't come down to a little more than half no matter who wins.
You could be smart enough to say "fuck you" to the mainstream Dem candidates early in the campaign.
The dumbass other half fears "the establishment" to the degree of going to dotards, coachfuckers and antivaxxers. Removing "the establishment" from your side could make them fear those more.
So the part about dumb, dumb motherfuckers can be arguably addressed to almost all of you, my cowboy friends.
Especially those saying that "the perfect is the enemy of the good" and people should vote for Harris instead of someone like Bernie or someone like Larry Lessig or who not.
You know who doesn’t have problems getting behind a candidate? The right wing. In a first past the post system, this is the best we can do until reforms occur. People have been calling for reforms, but the people who can make the changes are the ones who benefit from the system. So what would you have us do? The founding fathers made a really undemocratic system and the right wing exploits it to the fullest extent possible. Short of balkanization (which is probably coming soon), I’m really not sure what we could have done differently. Civil wars aren’t fun for anyone involved.
So no my non-cowboy friend, it’s not all of us. Lots of people have fought and died and struggled and protested for a better system just for the powers that be to ignore them. 1/3rd of the country doesn’t vote. The other 1/3rd actively wants to put my family in a death camp, and 1/3rd of us do what we can with what we have.
The founding fathers made a system reliant on most of the voters being literate landowners.
It kinda worked in such a situation, because it was (among those voters) relatively egalitarian.
It was also supported by functional free press.
Now things have changed to the point where mass media are not very good, censorship is a real problem, even if it's not by the government, and, ahem, political mechanisms have gotten a bit rusty even compared to 50s.
Isn't Canada closer?..
Or French Guiana. It's EU, and at the same time you get tropical beaches and wonderful nature.
Parts with jungle are better than parts without though.
OK, you are right. I just don't like something about Germany.
Being part Jewish and meeting arrogant Germans thinking that the whole Holocaust thing is something they are authoritative in because of being German.
Being part Armenian and meeting arrogant Germans thinking that the whole Armenian genocide thing is not as important because all people in the ME are apes anyway.
And somehow thinking their country is normal now, being friendly with Turkey and helping Israel to resolve their complex of inferiority in the worst way possible.
Yeah exactly. This system was made for a completely different scenario, and is very easily exploitable by disinformation campaigns and fascisms with its populist campaigns in general.
Na you did it by not supporting the easiest policy shift possible and actively acting like a hostile assholes to people losing their friends and family.
Lets be very clear you had a choice between telling harris: no, its not okay for the US to give weapons to mass murder a people and shitting on a group of people who are actively losing friends and family in that genocide.
Your choice: shit on the victims. Nice.
Now apply this reasoning to each issue in this election. Lgbt+, abortion, Ukraine, inflation.
Which single issue if it was swapped with gaza would you make the alternate choice? I suspect none of them. And that is why harris lost. Because the Democrats are assholes and unwilling to compromise. Even on basic human decency when it conflicts with their corporate masters.
My bullshit before the election usually involved saying that you still have to vote for Harris.
I'd say the media bullshit about the support of candidates, that communicated the wrong picture to Americans deciding whether to vote, has contributed much more than anything I ever wrote.
No reason to panic. It's just 4 more years, and then another election. Usually when someone promises you massacres and other bad things, you believe them, but not in this case - you've elected people who've never followed up on their promises.
I live in Russia, so you had it coming for the older disingenuous bullshit about Russia being "just an imperfect democracy" and Putin being better than some imagined unholy alliance of communists and neo-Nazis.
We fought hard and carried the team as best we could. We probably won't be eating as much curb as some states, but fucking frustrating as hell that some Americans can't get their shit together for 12 goddamn minutes. It's like half the country forgot how bad 2020 was, not to mention the insane shit that went down day in and day out for years.
I hope, HOPE that we have the privilege of voting in four years, and that by some miracle, the president, Senate and house and SC (all projected to be Republican) somehow forget to fuck with our election system.
Hi, this sentiment from non-americans pisses me off and it's okay, but I feel it's important to explain why so I'm copying another comment I made today.
Goodness knows some of us are trying our best. I mean keep in mind our country is a democracy in name but systemically props up white supremacists in excess of the real popular opinion. And a media disinformation machine keeps the working class divided against itself, with open support from the wealthiest and owners of the most popular social media platforms. Social media platforms that, let's be honest, are super recent inventions we are not yet capable of engaging with safely. It makes it an uphill battle to try to reach out to people whose necks aren't on the line. And the responsibility to do so falls upon the disenfranchised themselves, who are increasingly saddled with economic and health burdens that might just kill us someday.
I get the potshots at Americans, but frankly I don't plan on taking the blame if this goes tits up - many of us did a hell of a lot more than vote to resist fascism. Nothing happened here that isn't happening elsewhere. And I'll fight the notion that citizens at large are the problem. It's a cynical outlook that serves to individualize the responsibility for a systematic disaster. Our country was built to make this possible after all. And I sure as hell know I don't plan on giving up. Kind of morbidly curious about how much of an incompetent clusterfuck Project 2025's implementation will be.
Victory or no, fascists are paper tigers and I plan on sticking around to remind them of that fact however I can.
Fascists are paper tigers... bold statement. Especially if those paper tigers have access to the biggest military budget on the planet and are backed by an out-of-control police force.
Victory or no, fascists are paper tigers and I plan on sticking around to remind them of that fact however I can.
See, this is the issue.
It used to be this way. That until they're actually in power (and I mean have removed the democractic process that could remove them from power again, too), fascists pose big but there's no bite behind the bark.
But Jan 6 and Trump's general antics being excused by his cronies in the SC have clearly shown that this is changing. People are emboldened by the fascist rise in all western countries, on top of the generally aggressive atmosphere worldwide as the older generations, unable to face their own misgivings and the shit they caused to pile up, would rather vote for fascism and "blaming Them™️" than accept that maybe it's high time we accept some really rough times to turn the ship around. Fully knowing that none of them will live long enough to actually suffer the outcome of their actions.
Even my dad started voting AfD. His reason being "It's time something changes!". He's just unhappy with the status quo, even if you fully tell him that he, personally, is among those suffering under the AfD and they're open about wanting to make things worse for him. It's impossible to reason with these people, as them wanting to be reasoned with would mean they'd have to accept that between climate change and the secondary monumental tasks of trying to handle that which are all inherently global super-issues, too, their generation only had it good in their days because they were living on credit.
But does he truly care? No of course not. He's old. He can be contrarian and vote "against the establishment", and that this fucks everything up more or less permanently isn't a problem for him since he'll be long dead by the time the issues that could have been prevented truly come into force. Much as we're already seeing some issues such as curtailed bodily autonomy for women, increase in violent climes, and of course climate disasters.
Things have changed. People fully do shit now simply because their age and general position in society shields them from the outcome, and they just want to be "against". And they can openly flaunt this, so crime etc is on the rise. Big time.
Keep calm and carry on, mate. We here in Britain finally managed to get rid of the blonde fella who was wrecking our country, you can also do it. The new ones may not be much of an improvement, but I know one thing for sure - a decent citizen of any nation should never accept as their leader such a corrupted and crooked in so many ways person.
Yeah, but still. How, how could anyone vote for this ekstra speshial man? And, more importantly, how can someone like me stay sane knowing that such morally corrupt candidates are winning votes, and not only in the US?
I legitimately do not understand why. The evidence is clear and there’s no attempt to hide the racism and xenophobia, I guess I just overestimated how my country feels about fascists. Thought we sorted this shit in the 40’s but I guess we’re doing the fourth Reich instead.
Well, good pills were an option for me once, for the second question. I can not over-state the importance of seeking help in case shit hits the fan for you personally. Especially if one, like me, was raised in a masculine environment where you being all manly can see a doctor twice in your life: when you are born and when you are dead.
Outside of medication - taking a step back from social media helps immensely.
As for the first q, i think a lot of people gave answers like "people are just bad", and they may be right, but I do not want to accept it.
There are always fighters like you which can't be blamed. Nevertheless, most of the American voters are frankly deranged. As a Mexican who has been in the rural areas of the USA, it really fits.
Yeah with such a horrendous outcome, blame starts flying (it's the republicans' fault one billion percent more than anybody else's, btw) and sometimes in moments of understandable fury people start saying shit. There are some people who this makes sense to say at, and some who it doesn't, and they're both Americans.
If the person saying it was born in a different country and did all the right things, they'd be saying this at themselves. For doing the right thing.
Whatever, precise wording and being super pissed off don't go together. The sentiment that this is all super fucked up is right on the money.
You're right. The sentiment more comes from the power the USA weilds globally vs the massive responsibility the population don't seem to realise they have. If anything, the dumb motherfuckers will be the countries that keep allowing the USA to have this power while clearly the population - and by extension the new president - don't take this responsibility seriously.
I'm lucky. I don't live in Palestine or Ukraine, both of which are all but guaranteed to be fed to the wolves. It's heartbreaking to watch the complacency of a population who think the price of eggs is worth more than thousands of people's lives. But here we are.. and we're angry.
It kills me ...I got into it with a colleague this morning while discussing this very topic. When I brought up that whatever the current trending "bad guy" is, we will always see an increase in hate crimes against that demographic in our own country. When I used the increased attacks on anyone appearing to be slightly middle eastern after 9/11 as an example she angrily spat out that "they've killed thousands of us." And I had to remind her that she was literally giving an example of what we were discussing.
Many, many Americans do not see things that way at all. You constantly encounter people saying that they like Chinese people but not the CCP, for example.
Yeah but Americans not being ~56% the dumb fuckwits they seemingly are would have sent a good positive signal to the rest.
Now the opposite happens and the fascists everywhere will feel strongly encouraged, on top of strong US-support for autocratic Russia and big support for completely depopulating Gaza (after all, Trump is a big fan of Neta "finishing the job" in his own words).
True, but I love how the first we blame for this outcome are the American people.
I blame Kamala Harris and her botching her campaign. She had amazing momentum at the start, then slowly threw it all away, instead politicking to small businesses and Republicans instead of workers and their own base: Democrats.
I have to say when I watched the debate whilst Kamala herself impressed me, nothing she said felt very inspirational. I thought it was pretty clear what big picture items the base wanted and all she could come up with was a payment to new families and help for small business. This is good and all, but not the larger national and foreign policy announcements people wanted.
They voted for a con man, a fascist, a criminal, someone who tried to steal the last election. Kamala could be a bowl of day old warm potato salad and voting for him would still be one of the dumbest things imaginable.
Self-interest matters. What politicians will do for voters matters. That day old potato salad may be better than Trump, but it's not at all inspiring.
If Democrats really took fascism as a threat, they would have activated Tim Walz and his views and pushed as fast and as hard as they could with the time they had to make the most progressive campaign since Obama's.
But they went after the base who would have voted for a fascist anyways.
When fully capable adults do stupid things, like voting for an man with as many very serious faults as Trump, I blame them for doing it. That Democrats were ineffective at convincing people (or inspiring them) not to do something stupid doesn't make the thing any less stupid to do. Inspiration is not required to avoid being idiot.
When fully capable adults do stupid things, like campaigning to a voting base as grotesque as Trump's, I blame them for doing it.
Democrats, or at least those in their establishment bubble either on TV, on podcasts, at the DNC, or on the congressional floor, will believe anything they want to that'll pass on blame and hold to a superiority complex that they're never wrong. Power corrupts and all that.
Inspiration is absolutely required when you outside of the representative Democracy have lost hope in the economy, society, or planet. Apathy is much more destructive than idiocy, even when the latter is in favor of fascism. Apathy is what lets fascism and idiocracy prosper. There needs to be a counterforce should we keep the alternative at bay.
Democrats did not take Trump's potential to do the above seriously enough, either in his rhetoric to espouse fascism or cast mis- and disinformation. And now we have to deal with their failure.
“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.
That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives any more.
They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?”
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Now Palestine will be completely flattened with 0 resistance at all, and redoubled support and bombs for Israel! Way to go! You really showed your support for Palestine by helping this happen!
They will probably come back saying "it wasn't our fault, we just pointed out the truth" while they shouted that a vote for Harris was a vote for genocide [so don't vote for harris] from every platform that they used.
As you know, we're in a similar boat. Thankfully, we can get to Britain and stay (in theory) but the prospect of telling my elderly mother and my wife's family goodbye for the last time, finding the money, finding new jobs with my health issues, just downsizing so that we can move...
But we are doing it.
I hope you and your family find safety and my best wishes to all of you.
They've already done it to gay and trans people. Last time the Muslim ban was foiled by the courts. Now that the Republicans control the presidency, the SC, the house and Senate, little stands in their way. Project 2025's Schedule F will see to that.
Some states did an amazing self-own tonight, and unfortunately both teams are going to endure some severe beatings. I feel absolutely sick right now. Poor us. Poor Ukraine. Poor middle east. Taiwan is so fucking boned.
Trump didn't mean them when he said "they" were poisoning the blood of our country.
And, of course, they will never get rounded up and put in a camp. As long as they have the proper identification on them that shows they're a citizen when checked. And the cop checking will believe that identification is both genuine and not stolen.
Italy has a digital nomad visa now. Cost of living is so so but if you can freelance it's not a terrible place to live as an expat. Source: am US dual citizen living here. Feel free to pm me with any qs
Read the mod log dude, we've had this conversation in private chat three times.
The last strike and subsequent ban were because you disagree with an interpretation of mine. Not that it's factually wrong, not that it's hateful, that you disagree and thus you removed it.
Ahh. I had to scroll for a while to find it, but this was my last message on that topic:
perma ban for fighting people with the usage of misinformation.
Yes the Nazis famously led by whom? Context matters, bringing up Nazis is invoking Hitler and implying jd is literal Hitler. No, I mention that the way was already going to point out the ineptitude of your choice of date, 1938 being the most apt for your situation. The word evemy, I already offered the definition, you either lack reading ability, simply didn’t read it and you’re being wildly obtuse. We agree, why are you being a Vance right now? Ed: I’ll provide another > one that is antagonistic to another - especially : one seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound an opponent You*** stop an opponent you destroy an evemy***.
Opponent and enemy are the same in the goal, but not always the same in the motive. You try to beat the opponent/enemy, in the method proscribed in the actions being taken.
During WW2 but before the us entered? What a dumb question, of course but that time they were already running concentration camps. Are you implying jd Vance is literal Hitler and runs concentration camps in his backyard I guess? I sourced you the definition. I say he’s my opponent which does not imply violence, you say he is your enemy which does imply violence and you’re also berating me because I agree with you but refuse to use violent vitriolic language. Neat, logic that one out yourself.
He’s an opponent, he’s someone I stand against, he isn’t my enemy. Because when I say enemy I mean someone who needs to be removed from society by any means possible. You seem to use it as someone you don’t appreciate. Enemy: >a person who hates or opposes another person and tries to harm them or stop them from doing something: Opponent: a person who disagrees with something and speaks against it or tries to change it: I’m fairly sure by news rules calls for violence are specifically against the rules and I’m not sure why you would call for violence given that is the only difference in meaning between the two words.
Enemy (From the Oxford Learner’s Dictionary):
a person who hates someone or who acts or speaks against someone or something
In short, you twist words to your desires, and you talk down to people, insulting them, and their abilities.
I'll be hopping another client to post full screenshots of all our discussions, as right now, I'm being painted as an ass, without context.
You're proving my point, that's a ban because you didn't like interpretation, not because I violated a rule and most certainly not because it is factually wrong.
Ed: it should be noted that the context you're arguing for is that I should violently hate jd Vance because we have different opinions and positions. He's not my enemy, he's an opponent. Your proving you banned me because I won't say I violently dislike jd Vance. Come on bud, you're smart enough to see that is bias.
I imagine that's going to change. Why would anyone welcome someone who statistically was very likely to have voted for a fascist? America will never be respected ever again
Pour one out for America and Ukraine, and the Middle East in general. And Taiwan.
Europe and Asia, you guys better get your shit together, we might be out of this one permanently. Or we might have a very long recovery time spanning decades. Such fucking bullshit.
Calling this apathy is letting Nazis off easy. This isn't apathy, this is a massive chunk of the US population willingly acting on this. Today is truly a tragedy.
They're no less at fault. Fascists were always going to vote. Non-voters had the power to decide. Self-titled "centrists" and "apoliticals", or those who adopted a stupid moral high ground because of one thing that Harris did or did not say, made a choice that amounted to "I'm okay with the worse outcome". They failed to vote against the worse outcome.
Fascism is a cancer that should be excised with prejudice. So is abstention. And Americans should hold them equally responsible for every harm and every life.
That's the problem, you see. Fascists and zealots were always going to vote. The decision was in the hands of the people who didn't, and they're at fault exactly as much as fascists.
While yes I'm sure it contributed, I think a lot of people voted because their rent and groceries were too expensive, so that means "vote for the party not in power". It makes zero sense, but I have to hope that they're just uninformed and desperate and not eager for what Trump and 2025 crew want.
Ultimately though, it's on them. It was their responsibility to know what they're voting for, and they failed. Now we can only hope they're too incompetent to do what they want.
Yeah make sure you never ever ever ever ever ever ever blame voters. It's always Democrats and never voters responsible. God fuck this world and every moron in it
The fact of the matter is: People need more than sticks to do anything; they need carrots. Nobody, me included, cares if you don't like how people didn't fear your preferred stick enough; that's just how people work. The failure remains squarely on the DNC who, having the perfect stick in Trump, refused to prepare a carrot and opted for a piece of shit hoping to attract some flies from the neighboring mountain-sized pile of shit. Getting angry at voters is like getting angry at the wind for destroying your paper house; I mean okay but maybe don't build a paper house?
Great mental gymnastics to pretend voters aren't responsible for their reprehensible actions! I'll try and adapt that to dodge blame every time I fuck up
I'm not American so I didn't really fuck up anything. I still it's the responsibility of candidates to get people to vote for them. I don't care if you didn't like it, but expecting people to vote for a pile of shit to avoid a bigger pile of shit doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. The DNC, enabled by "hold your nose and vote for her" folks, failed to consider this basic fact and that lost them the white house and senate. Well, congrats.
Baffling. We already rejected this guy once when he had less baggage. His first term was objectively terrible.
So, I guess America has kings now, because Trump will never see another day in court for his crimes, and he's not going to prison.
I just don't have the strength anymore. I'm teetering on the brink of agreeing with the accelerationists and just letting it happen. The faster Trump ruins the country, the sooner we can rebuild it while we still have time to enjoy it.
Seems to have worked for Jesus. Maybe they're trying to bring about his second coming? Althought it thought it was the other side that was into that kind of stuff.
I guess I underestimated just how many americans have a problem with a PoC + Woman candidate, perhaps it was an error from the dems to not run a white guy at this moment.
Eh. This was one of the chief concerns for those of us that resisted Biden stepping down that late in the race. No time for a primary, so Harris had to be the candidate. I was pleasantly surprised at the great reception she enjoyed for the first month, but the hype obviously didn't reach far beyond the solidly blue base.
The only reason there was not enough time was because Biden took his time abdicating. We had more than enough time for primaries had Biden stepped down earlier.
It wasn't a good reason not to vote for her, but unfortunately is one of the reasons some people didn't vote. She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.
She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.
The problem with that is that Democrats' insistence on incrementalism in all things had destroyed their credibility when they say that they'll help people. No, they'll start some investigations, throw up a hurdle in their own path, gleefully announce that it's insurmountable, and then scream that everyone who saw what they just did doesn't know how government works.
You're ignoring that 2 independents caucus with Democrats. It's dishonest to exclude them. But you're splitting hairs because it's convenient for your excuses.
Don't think it won't happen to you. When the incoming wave of Ukrainian refugees hits Europe, the populists that have already been growing in popularity will make their move. With the U.S. fallen, a lot of money and attention has been freed up to destabilize other countries.
It's happening in Italy. It's happening in the Netherlands. It's happening in France. If you think you are ready for it, remember that we thought the same.
My one takeaway from this is that primaries are important. Republicans held a primary, nominated an incomprehensibly stupid candidate, and managed to win. Dems held no primary, Biden strong armed his way into the de-facto nomination for a second term, and was replaced by his VP when he imploded on the campaign trail. At no point did Dem voters ever get to have a say in their candidate this year. Not that Kamala or Joe are bad candidates, but clearly, they're lacking something if Trump was able to win again after changing nothing from 2020.
So, the DNC fucked us again and we got Trump a second time in exactly the same way.
I mean it's quite different. Hitler wasn't elected (at least not prior to seizing power and effectively banning all opposition). Instead the Nazis got a plurality of just 33% in the Reichstag election, which led to failure to form a government. Then Hitler somehow convinced the center right President to grant him powers which he promptly started abusing and the rest is history.
In other words, 1930s Germany can kind of defend itself in ways the US can't.
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there's an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
Read theory. A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list for Marxism if you'd like, but this is a good starting point.
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
As an American, our bell was tolling long ago and so few of us cared to listen. (This is a quote from Carl Sagan's book from nearly 20 years ago).
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
America is likely now doomed. We'll balkanize into minor states that join either the axis or allies of WWIII until we mostly dissolve altogether and the next wave of history and death and rolls through. Though seeing the rise of fascism on the world scale, I think we're generally just doomed, all of us. Perhaps we're just an avenue for AGI to wipe us out and go fight other AGIs on some intergalactic scale not much different from our own inability to get along and work together. Perhaps I've been drinking myself to stupor now that I see what has happened.
We have always known why Hitler rose to power, and we know why Trump was reelected. When people are economically depressed and a man comes to you and tells you “This isn’t your fault, I will persecute those who are responsible and personally make things better for you.” It’s human nature, out of fear, frustration, or desperation to grasp that hand. We as a people are not ready to trust the guy who says “This is our fault, and it will be hard, but we have to fix this together”. Take everything you know about Hitler and Trump and OUR world out of it, take out your reasoning and tap into your monkey brain for a second and simply ruminate on those two propositions. Which one would you rather be true? You can’t honestly tell me the latter. You may know the latter is true, but it would be so much easier on you if the first was true.
Like it or not, we aren’t as evolved as we like to think, and those of us who consider ourselves enlightened are vulnerable to our lizard brains at one point or another.
Sure, that didn't help, but she also was a "more of the same" candidate (she's rhe current VP!)
As much as I wanted her to win, she was always a stupid choice in at a time where voters can essentially all agree on one thing: they want change.
Status quo politics is dead, the dems just haven't realized it yet. As braindead as Trump and a most of his policies are, people like that he doesn't give a shit about disrupting things to achieve his goals.
You're right, I agree with you and I think his goals are both damaging and stupid... but at the end of the day his strategy is winning and we will obviously have to adapt to beat it.
Biden wasn't really a centrist in the same way Harris was. Biden ran on a progressive-ish platform, and mostly backed it up with action. He sure as hell didn't run on fracking and locking up immigrants like Harris is.
The Dems should definitely move more central on social issues, as the US election system has a huge built in rural bias.
Then focus on more broad-reaching progressive economic topics. Less focus on legislation targeting specific marginalized groups and more on policies which would impact everyone directly. As a potential example, Universal Basic Income ("Freedom Bonus" or whatever it was called) was one such policy which was floated a couple elections ago.
Okay that's just copium, but it's jot because she was a centrist either. Harris wasn't even trying to campaign competently or listen to her constituency; ultimately that's what did her in.
statistically, if he wins, he's likely to sit for life even if he doesn't cancel future elections (or however he plans to suppress democracy), because, you see, he is very old and likely to die soon (but probably not soon enough for my taste).
I know you're trying to be an asshole but looking at the election results that apparently actually was the issue. Our electorate wants a right wing fascist
God damn, don't you fucking get it? Fascists are NEVER going to accept that a Democrat is one of them. Fascists aren't going to vote for you just because you adopt their policies and throw the right vulnerable populations under the bus. It doesn't matter how far to the right the party moves, fascists will never buy it.
But the left sure as hell will notice who you want to be besties with and who you take for granted.
Moving to the right has failed. Now do the only thing centrists do besides simp for Republicans and become abusive.
Yes, you did. And clearly you didnt look at the results. They say nothing about right wing policies trump was capped out and harris didnt have a platform to bring out her base. 20 million of them. Instead she shit on arabs, students, working class, lgbt+. She lost a huge upswing in support by tying herself to biden instrad of throwing him under the bus like she should have.
The writing was on the wall in 2020 when we argued about whether biden really committed to a single term.
We warned you, we pleaded with you, we scolded you that this would happen. But what do we know, we're just russian trolls.
I saw some smug person saying that today all the accounts who criticized Biden/Harris (as equally as Trump, mind you) would turn off today. I think I'm gonna at least crank out more shitposts just to spite that one person.
I hope in the last leg of their campaign they dig up Nixon's bones and get a endorsement from him to try and draw in conservatives that don't care one bit about Nixon, and alternate and demotivate their actual base of voters!
Irrelevant. The people who tried to stop it already know how Hitler came to power, and the ones who should ask how it happened — the ones you should address your post to — either don’t care or actively want another Hitler.
But hey, at least you slammed the people who tried their hardest, rather than actually address conservatives themselves, which would have required you actually confronting them. Glad you feel better, though.
The dem message of "we won't do better but the other guy will do worse" failed. It was a bad message and it lost them the election against a terrible candidate.
Voters need to be motivated to vote and that message isn't motivating enough
I'm watching it happen in real time and STILL questioning how it happened. Humans are some stupid motherfuckers. America burned its hand on Trump, and now a disturbing number of Americans are reaching for him again with the same hand, still blistered from the first time.
Some of us are still trying to figure out how this happened here. At least in between trying to figure out where and how to flee the country, and shutting down entirely.
I would be more concerned if he were less stupid. Going by his last presidency he'll spend half his time golfing and the rest driving through ineffective "red meat" policies to get attention from his base. Ultimately he's just a pathetic man who craves attention.
What concerns me more is that his destruction of political norms means that someone who is similarly evil - but actually capable - might be able to use him as a template to take power in the future and make America into a dictatorship. Someone like Xi Jinping as opposed to an aging B-list celebrity.
Well you see... Kamala had no substantial policy positions that help the working class of america, she refused to challenge the status quo, mocked her supporters, and ran towards people who love trump more than life.
And then individuals instead of recognizing these facts demanded people vote for the lesser evil like it was a blessing to be able to do so besides a cross to carry and wonder why people didnt show up.
Tell me where was harris during the boeing strike?
absolutely no one acted like voting blue was a blessing and claiming that is so incredibly disingenuous. every single debate I saw here was very clear about how it is always a lesser of evils so don't dare pretend like it wasn't.
it's also incredibly pathetic to claim she is status quo when douchebag deluxe has already been president once and did fuck all to help anyone but himself.
you gas bags never argue in good faith and have the memory of a broken stick.
I remember seven years ago. Beautiful IV Reich there with caged migrant kids, white Americans publicly scolding people for speaking Spanish, improvisation all around, xenophobia as a government policy, riots on the streets. A revolution is due.
During the Trump presidency, I read a book entitled "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45". In it, a journalist gives an account of his interviews with people who had been rank-and-file members of the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany. It really is remarkable what similarities there are.
There are some things that I think will keep the US safe, at least for now. One is that Trump himself is old and will slow down soon. The other thing is that Hitler came to power against democratic institutions that were much, much weaker and younger than what the US has. The Weimar Republic had been established just 15 years prior, whereas the US has had a continuous government for nearly 250 years.
Trump or anyone trying to follow in his stead simply has a lot more in their way. Of course, that's no reason for complacency.
The ones who voted against him understand well how it happened. The ones who voted for him never questioned how, because it never entered their minds to care.
I guess I'll be last seen being dragged into one of the detaining camps because I'm getting several T-shirts made, "Don't blame me. I didn't vote for the orange shitbag douche!"
Now we don't have to wonder why there's not a shit load of advanced life in the universe. We just experienced one of the bottlenecks of civilizations advancing.
Because of different countries voting for right wing governments recently and tonight, I've lost hope for this country and the planet.
Later add on: I have no clue why my post keep showing up as f'ed up text. If anyone know, please advise.
I think advocacy groups and other entities that were trying to make changes at a national or state level need to reevaluate their efforts. This election signals to me that the American people do not want these positive changes. They do not want to be civilized.
I think those advocacy groups should make a Pivot to Aid and focus their efforts on supporting the people that deserve it and want it, instead of trying to lift up a majority of people who do not want to be lifted up.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting “centrist” Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on “A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war”
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, won the election, then proceeded to make Hitler, chancellor and staff positions in government with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn’t get in power because people voted fascist, they got into power because liberals prefer fascism to working with communists.
Wait, what? Thats a little bit of a stretch, don't you think? Under Hitler, 6 million jews and millions of others were imprisoned, starved and slaughtered. I know some Jewish people who are fairly offended by this comparison. I know at first people were largely being hyperbolic, but its become clear that many actually feel this way. He aint Hitler guys, not even close. Thats kinda ridiculous.
You dumb, dumb motherfuckers.
Regards, the rest of the world.
They'd be upset if they could read.
Most of us can, and are also stunned by the dunbass other half of the population
*Slightly less than half
mostof us can, and are stunned by the dumbass other half of the population FTFYRoughly 1/3 of the voting age population.
About 1/3rd of the voting age population do not vote.
We're outnumbered 2:1
Your math assumes 100% of the population votes.
...as was the case in 1933 Germany...
Sure but a lot didn’t care. Less voters this time Trump votes stayed steady so. Lots of people who voted Biden where ok with Trump getting in.
It's not though. Voting is not mandatory and voter turnout in the US hovers only around 35-40% of the eligible population, on the high side.
The non-voters are also dumb.
Hey, that'll get them to vote!
A little late now.
If a random comment on Lemmy would get a non-voter to vote or not vote then they're pretty weak willed. Not voting should be a conscious decision.
Maybe we should vote to round them up
Once you take into account registered voters versus eligible citizens, and the turnout of registered voters... It actually comes out to more like 25% of eligible citizens actually voting, and that's on the high side.
Nope, 1/3 of the population never votes. That's around 100 million people. And neither party has close to 50% of the US population, so it doesn't come down to a little more than half no matter who wins.
And the people that don’t vote don’t matter cause they don’t care either way.
Or they do care but don't see enough of a difference between parties to matter which is in power
Ironically I think you meant to type "dumbass" while criticizing reading comprehension.
I get it, probably on mobile, but I couldn't NOT reply.
You could be smart enough to say "fuck you" to the mainstream Dem candidates early in the campaign.
The dumbass other half fears "the establishment" to the degree of going to dotards, coachfuckers and antivaxxers. Removing "the establishment" from your side could make them fear those more.
So the part about dumb, dumb motherfuckers can be arguably addressed to almost all of you, my cowboy friends.
Especially those saying that "the perfect is the enemy of the good" and people should vote for Harris instead of someone like Bernie or someone like Larry Lessig or who not.
You know who doesn’t have problems getting behind a candidate? The right wing. In a first past the post system, this is the best we can do until reforms occur. People have been calling for reforms, but the people who can make the changes are the ones who benefit from the system. So what would you have us do? The founding fathers made a really undemocratic system and the right wing exploits it to the fullest extent possible. Short of balkanization (which is probably coming soon), I’m really not sure what we could have done differently. Civil wars aren’t fun for anyone involved.
So no my non-cowboy friend, it’s not all of us. Lots of people have fought and died and struggled and protested for a better system just for the powers that be to ignore them. 1/3rd of the country doesn’t vote. The other 1/3rd actively wants to put my family in a death camp, and 1/3rd of us do what we can with what we have.
See you in Germany. So fucking done with the USA.
The founding fathers made a system reliant on most of the voters being literate landowners.
It kinda worked in such a situation, because it was (among those voters) relatively egalitarian.
It was also supported by functional free press.
Now things have changed to the point where mass media are not very good, censorship is a real problem, even if it's not by the government, and, ahem, political mechanisms have gotten a bit rusty even compared to 50s.
Isn't Canada closer?..
Or French Guiana. It's EU, and at the same time you get tropical beaches and wonderful nature.
Or one of the Scandinavian countries.
I mean, if you want Germany, then fine.
Moving closer to the equator is likely to be a bad time in the near future, what with climate change and all.
Parts with jungle are better than parts without though.
OK, you are right. I just don't like something about Germany.
Being part Jewish and meeting arrogant Germans thinking that the whole Holocaust thing is something they are authoritative in because of being German.
Being part Armenian and meeting arrogant Germans thinking that the whole Armenian genocide thing is not as important because all people in the ME are apes anyway.
And somehow thinking their country is normal now, being friendly with Turkey and helping Israel to resolve their complex of inferiority in the worst way possible.
I’m a German citizen as well. So Germany is what makes the most sense.
You can live in any EU country being a German citizen, but OK.
Yeah exactly. This system was made for a completely different scenario, and is very easily exploitable by disinformation campaigns and fascisms with its populist campaigns in general.
Silence! Je veux eviter la cohue!
Congratulations your disingenuous bullshit helped destroy America
Na you did that just fine but supporting harris do blindly she wouldn't move her policy positions.
Yes I got people to sit at home by convincing them Harris is a genocide monster. All by myself. Just because I love being a huge piece of shit.
Na you did it by not supporting the easiest policy shift possible and actively acting like a hostile assholes to people losing their friends and family.
Lets be very clear you had a choice between telling harris: no, its not okay for the US to give weapons to mass murder a people and shitting on a group of people who are actively losing friends and family in that genocide.
Your choice: shit on the victims. Nice.
Now apply this reasoning to each issue in this election. Lgbt+, abortion, Ukraine, inflation.
Which single issue if it was swapped with gaza would you make the alternate choice? I suspect none of them. And that is why harris lost. Because the Democrats are assholes and unwilling to compromise. Even on basic human decency when it conflicts with their corporate masters.
Gaza wa the easy issue.
I'm not an American voter.
My bullshit before the election usually involved saying that you still have to vote for Harris.
I'd say the media bullshit about the support of candidates, that communicated the wrong picture to Americans deciding whether to vote, has contributed much more than anything I ever wrote.
No reason to panic. It's just 4 more years, and then another election. Usually when someone promises you massacres and other bad things, you believe them, but not in this case - you've elected people who've never followed up on their promises.
I live in Russia, so you had it coming for the older disingenuous bullshit about Russia being "just an imperfect democracy" and Putin being better than some imagined unholy alliance of communists and neo-Nazis.
Point 4 may be wishful thinking
True. But I can't feel scared by that, comparing it to point 5.
American here. Fuuuuc.... Not what most of us wanted here on the West Coast.
Yeah, wtf is in the water out east?
Oh right, the lead
The southeast. The northeast did just fine.
This map shows a whole lot of fucking up.
You will get zero argument from me. This is a disgrace.
I've been trying to fall asleep for, uh, well the first dose of nyquil just wore off. This is going to be a fun night.
PA can fuck all the way off and not just cause I’m a Bruins fan
We fought hard and carried the team as best we could. We probably won't be eating as much curb as some states, but fucking frustrating as hell that some Americans can't get their shit together for 12 goddamn minutes. It's like half the country forgot how bad 2020 was, not to mention the insane shit that went down day in and day out for years.
I hope, HOPE that we have the privilege of voting in four years, and that by some miracle, the president, Senate and house and SC (all projected to be Republican) somehow forget to fuck with our election system.
I almost wish we could just be our own country. Washington, Oregon, and California are already very much aligned with one another.
Have you considered... secession? 😉
Fuck no, that’d make the whole country red. We’re in this together
Hi, this sentiment from non-americans pisses me off and it's okay, but I feel it's important to explain why so I'm copying another comment I made today.
Goodness knows some of us are trying our best. I mean keep in mind our country is a democracy in name but systemically props up white supremacists in excess of the real popular opinion. And a media disinformation machine keeps the working class divided against itself, with open support from the wealthiest and owners of the most popular social media platforms. Social media platforms that, let's be honest, are super recent inventions we are not yet capable of engaging with safely. It makes it an uphill battle to try to reach out to people whose necks aren't on the line. And the responsibility to do so falls upon the disenfranchised themselves, who are increasingly saddled with economic and health burdens that might just kill us someday.
I get the potshots at Americans, but frankly I don't plan on taking the blame if this goes tits up - many of us did a hell of a lot more than vote to resist fascism. Nothing happened here that isn't happening elsewhere. And I'll fight the notion that citizens at large are the problem. It's a cynical outlook that serves to individualize the responsibility for a systematic disaster. Our country was built to make this possible after all. And I sure as hell know I don't plan on giving up. Kind of morbidly curious about how much of an incompetent clusterfuck Project 2025's implementation will be.
Victory or no, fascists are paper tigers and I plan on sticking around to remind them of that fact however I can.
Fascists are paper tigers... bold statement. Especially if those paper tigers have access to the biggest military budget on the planet and are backed by an out-of-control police force.
See, this is the issue.
It used to be this way. That until they're actually in power (and I mean have removed the democractic process that could remove them from power again, too), fascists pose big but there's no bite behind the bark.
But Jan 6 and Trump's general antics being excused by his cronies in the SC have clearly shown that this is changing. People are emboldened by the fascist rise in all western countries, on top of the generally aggressive atmosphere worldwide as the older generations, unable to face their own misgivings and the shit they caused to pile up, would rather vote for fascism and "blaming Them™️" than accept that maybe it's high time we accept some really rough times to turn the ship around.
Fully knowing that none of them will live long enough to actually suffer the outcome of their actions.
Even my dad started voting AfD. His reason being "It's time something changes!". He's just unhappy with the status quo, even if you fully tell him that he, personally, is among those suffering under the AfD and they're open about wanting to make things worse for him. It's impossible to reason with these people, as them wanting to be reasoned with would mean they'd have to accept that between climate change and the secondary monumental tasks of trying to handle that which are all inherently global super-issues, too, their generation only had it good in their days because they were living on credit.
But does he truly care? No of course not. He's old. He can be contrarian and vote "against the establishment", and that this fucks everything up more or less permanently isn't a problem for him since he'll be long dead by the time the issues that could have been prevented truly come into force. Much as we're already seeing some issues such as curtailed bodily autonomy for women, increase in violent climes, and of course climate disasters.
Things have changed. People fully do shit now simply because their age and general position in society shields them from the outcome, and they just want to be "against". And they can openly flaunt this, so crime etc is on the rise. Big time.
Keep calm and carry on, mate. We here in Britain finally managed to get rid of the blonde fella who was wrecking our country, you can also do it. The new ones may not be much of an improvement, but I know one thing for sure - a decent citizen of any nation should never accept as their leader such a corrupted and crooked in so many ways person.
We traded an orange man for a white man and even that seemed to enrage the conservatives, a black woman? No chance. Proud to be an American here 🙄
Yeah, but still. How, how could anyone vote for this ekstra speshial man? And, more importantly, how can someone like me stay sane knowing that such morally corrupt candidates are winning votes, and not only in the US?
I legitimately do not understand why. The evidence is clear and there’s no attempt to hide the racism and xenophobia, I guess I just overestimated how my country feels about fascists. Thought we sorted this shit in the 40’s but I guess we’re doing the fourth Reich instead.
I don’t want to live on this planet anymore 👍
If you find answers to either of those, please let me know.
Well, good pills were an option for me once, for the second question. I can not over-state the importance of seeking help in case shit hits the fan for you personally. Especially if one, like me, was raised in a masculine environment where you being all manly can see a doctor twice in your life: when you are born and when you are dead. Outside of medication - taking a step back from social media helps immensely. As for the first q, i think a lot of people gave answers like "people are just bad", and they may be right, but I do not want to accept it.
I mean clearly, to americans as a whole, women are scaaaary. Look at them taking their autonomy away with their anti-abortion laws.
There are always fighters like you which can't be blamed. Nevertheless, most of the American voters are frankly deranged. As a Mexican who has been in the rural areas of the USA, it really fits.
Yeah with such a horrendous outcome, blame starts flying (it's the republicans' fault one billion percent more than anybody else's, btw) and sometimes in moments of understandable fury people start saying shit. There are some people who this makes sense to say at, and some who it doesn't, and they're both Americans.
If the person saying it was born in a different country and did all the right things, they'd be saying this at themselves. For doing the right thing.
Whatever, precise wording and being super pissed off don't go together. The sentiment that this is all super fucked up is right on the money.
You're right. The sentiment more comes from the power the USA weilds globally vs the massive responsibility the population don't seem to realise they have. If anything, the dumb motherfuckers will be the countries that keep allowing the USA to have this power while clearly the population - and by extension the new president - don't take this responsibility seriously.
I'm lucky. I don't live in Palestine or Ukraine, both of which are all but guaranteed to be fed to the wolves. It's heartbreaking to watch the complacency of a population who think the price of eggs is worth more than thousands of people's lives. But here we are.. and we're angry.
Democrats handed this election to Trump, hold them accountable
Well said. Thank you.
The word you’re looking for is Nazi. We just repeated the Madison Square Garden rally and here we goooo
Also the US: Look at those foreign countries, bad guys because of what their government is doing regardless of whether it's what their people want.
It kills me ...I got into it with a colleague this morning while discussing this very topic. When I brought up that whatever the current trending "bad guy" is, we will always see an increase in hate crimes against that demographic in our own country. When I used the increased attacks on anyone appearing to be slightly middle eastern after 9/11 as an example she angrily spat out that "they've killed thousands of us." And I had to remind her that she was literally giving an example of what we were discussing.
Many, many Americans do not see things that way at all. You constantly encounter people saying that they like Chinese people but not the CCP, for example.
So how dumb does that make the average american?
Almost half of the voters makes you just 1/3 of the population.
As if the rest of the world wasn't on the same slippery slope...
Things are looking glum all over.
Yeah but Americans not being ~56% the dumb fuckwits they seemingly are would have sent a good positive signal to the rest.
Now the opposite happens and the fascists everywhere will feel strongly encouraged, on top of strong US-support for autocratic Russia and big support for completely depopulating Gaza (after all, Trump is a big fan of Neta "finishing the job" in his own words).
Nah, don't 'what about...' this.
You're being too kind
Ha ha ha, indeed.
True, but I love how the first we blame for this outcome are the American people.
I blame Kamala Harris and her botching her campaign. She had amazing momentum at the start, then slowly threw it all away, instead politicking to small businesses and Republicans instead of workers and their own base: Democrats.
I have to say when I watched the debate whilst Kamala herself impressed me, nothing she said felt very inspirational. I thought it was pretty clear what big picture items the base wanted and all she could come up with was a payment to new families and help for small business. This is good and all, but not the larger national and foreign policy announcements people wanted.
They voted for a con man, a fascist, a criminal, someone who tried to steal the last election. Kamala could be a bowl of day old warm potato salad and voting for him would still be one of the dumbest things imaginable.
Doesn't matter.
Self-interest matters. What politicians will do for voters matters. That day old potato salad may be better than Trump, but it's not at all inspiring.
If Democrats really took fascism as a threat, they would have activated Tim Walz and his views and pushed as fast and as hard as they could with the time they had to make the most progressive campaign since Obama's.
But they went after the base who would have voted for a fascist anyways.
This is Democrats' own doing. Sorry.
When fully capable adults do stupid things, like voting for an man with as many very serious faults as Trump, I blame them for doing it. That Democrats were ineffective at convincing people (or inspiring them) not to do something stupid doesn't make the thing any less stupid to do. Inspiration is not required to avoid being idiot.
When fully capable adults do stupid things, like campaigning to a voting base as grotesque as Trump's, I blame them for doing it.
Democrats, or at least those in their establishment bubble either on TV, on podcasts, at the DNC, or on the congressional floor, will believe anything they want to that'll pass on blame and hold to a superiority complex that they're never wrong. Power corrupts and all that.
Inspiration is absolutely required when you outside of the representative Democracy have lost hope in the economy, society, or planet. Apathy is much more destructive than idiocy, even when the latter is in favor of fascism. Apathy is what lets fascism and idiocracy prosper. There needs to be a counterforce should we keep the alternative at bay.
Democrats did not take Trump's potential to do the above seriously enough, either in his rhetoric to espouse fascism or cast mis- and disinformation. And now we have to deal with their failure.
You both bear 100% of the blame each.
“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.
That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives any more.
They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?”
Are you kidding? Watching it happen in real time, it makes less sense than it ever did.
I lived in the shithole parts of the country, it made perfect sense.
Many 'Americans' would eat shit if they knew the smell would piss people off.
See but that's just not making sense up close.
And it's official now.
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Now Palestine will be completely flattened with 0 resistance at all, and redoubled support and bombs for Israel! Way to go! You really showed your support for Palestine by helping this happen!
They will probably come back saying "it wasn't our fault, we just pointed out the truth" while they shouted that a vote for Harris was a vote for genocide [so don't vote for harris] from every platform that they used.
Fuck, this his hard. As a father of a gay child, and a trans child, our immediate plans are passports.
You forgot the big fat fucking asterisk.
asterisk = straight, white, hetero male of upper-middle class or grater
It still fits.
Everyone else gets the grater or meat grinder.
"Free" is used in the same way like the "Democratic" in "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea"
*Visa. Passport won't be enough to travel to the EU and select other countries in 2025.
EITAS isn't a visa, and you can do it without travel plans and it lasts 3 years, tied to your passport.
As you know, we're in a similar boat. Thankfully, we can get to Britain and stay (in theory) but the prospect of telling my elderly mother and my wife's family goodbye for the last time, finding the money, finding new jobs with my health issues, just downsizing so that we can move...
But we are doing it.
I hope you and your family find safety and my best wishes to all of you.
Good luck, friend.
Thank you. And to you too. Good luck to all of us.
Jeez that's sad to read. I wish you all good luck on the voyage to a less a hostile country
Get out before January if you can
Imagine being Latino in a red state.
They've already done it to gay and trans people. Last time the Muslim ban was foiled by the courts. Now that the Republicans control the presidency, the SC, the house and Senate, little stands in their way. Project 2025's Schedule F will see to that.
Some states did an amazing self-own tonight, and unfortunately both teams are going to endure some severe beatings. I feel absolutely sick right now. Poor us. Poor Ukraine. Poor middle east. Taiwan is so fucking boned.
Broooo what kills me is how many Latino men voted for this!! I saw a statistic that was like 59%
Trump didn't mean them when he said "they" were poisoning the blood of our country.
And, of course, they will never get rounded up and put in a camp. As long as they have the proper identification on them that shows they're a citizen when checked. And the cop checking will believe that identification is both genuine and not stolen.
Imagine being Latino and trans in a red state. Those people definitely exist. I am very scared for them.
Italy has a digital nomad visa now. Cost of living is so so but if you can freelance it's not a terrible place to live as an expat. Source: am US dual citizen living here. Feel free to pm me with any qs
She might've toned it down a bit since she got elected, but Meloni is a fascist too.
Yes, but Italians are incompetent (at least their government). That's the one relief
I am so fucking sorry you are in this shit and I wish you and your children good luck going forward. Sadly it seems like you will need it.
I wish you the best with your anger issues.
Yes, any criticism is just people with anger issues, that's sorta my point guy.
Ed: also notice I get civility hits from everywhere else, the only ones that contain personal bias are yours.
Care to share an example of this? I'm all for learning and growing, and maybe we can resolve this hostility in a non-hostile manner.
Read the mod log dude, we've had this conversation in private chat three times.
The last strike and subsequent ban were because you disagree with an interpretation of mine. Not that it's factually wrong, not that it's hateful, that you disagree and thus you removed it.
Ahh. I had to scroll for a while to find it, but this was my last message on that topic:
Opponent and enemy are the same in the goal, but not always the same in the motive. You try to beat the opponent/enemy, in the method proscribed in the actions being taken.
I'll be hopping another client to post full screenshots of all our discussions, as right now, I'm being painted as an ass, without context.
You're proving my point, that's a ban because you didn't like interpretation, not because I violated a rule and most certainly not because it is factually wrong.
Ed: it should be noted that the context you're arguing for is that I should violently hate jd Vance because we have different opinions and positions. He's not my enemy, he's an opponent. Your proving you banned me because I won't say I violently dislike jd Vance. Come on bud, you're smart enough to see that is bias.
The most recent conversation we had (read each image bottom-up while reading the images one at a time, from top down, because Lemmy):
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
Next, for full context - our first interaction in DMs:
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Finally, the guy you were arguing with I removed comments, for the same reason.
I had completely forgotten about this until you attacked me here.
that wont get you anywhere.
It’ll get you out of the nation.
only for a few weeks.
That's all one needs at this point
It will though, the US passport offers a ton of visa-free destinations. Although it's not immigration,it definitely helps
I imagine that's going to change. Why would anyone welcome someone who statistically was very likely to have voted for a fascist? America will never be respected ever again
You havent been respected in a long time.
Which country are you from? A respected one?
So, place your bets! What's going to be that one announcement that suddenly makes your neighbours go all quiet?
Yes, some of these are fearmongering but he's made all sorts of promises and debts are due! The sky is the limit!
Women: he told you he's taking your rights away and is already letting you die in hospital waiting rooms
Tradesman: he told you overtime and unions are gone
Veterans: he told you he hates you, pissed all over the sanctity of Arlington and is gutting the VA
Hispanics: he told you you and yours are getting deported and doesn't care if you're legal or not
Those on social security, Medicare, Medicaid or ACA: he told you he's cutting/gutting these
Anyone with ties to Palestine: he told you he's going to help Israel finish the job
Pour one out for America and Ukraine, and the Middle East in general. And Taiwan.
Europe and Asia, you guys better get your shit together, we might be out of this one permanently. Or we might have a very long recovery time spanning decades. Such fucking bullshit.
It doesn't matter.
Europeans know the history of fascism much, much better than Americans do and they're electing right-wing leaders too.
Well, I for one will question it, because I don't understand what I'm seeing. How the flying fuck is this happening?
The apathy of the masses.
Calling this apathy is letting Nazis off easy. This isn't apathy, this is a massive chunk of the US population willingly acting on this. Today is truly a tragedy.
They're no less at fault. Fascists were always going to vote. Non-voters had the power to decide. Self-titled "centrists" and "apoliticals", or those who adopted a stupid moral high ground because of one thing that Harris did or did not say, made a choice that amounted to "I'm okay with the worse outcome". They failed to vote against the worse outcome.
Fascism is a cancer that should be excised with prejudice. So is abstention. And Americans should hold them equally responsible for every harm and every life.
Non-voters can turn fascist too. There's no guarantee that if everyone voted, the results wouldn't be the same.
Except everything we know about voting in America disagrees with you
I'm fully expecting a "night of the long knives" type of situation now. Hope to be wrong about it, but I haven't been so far.
Apathy? This isn't apathy. Apathy doesn't vote. Hate votes.
That's the problem, you see. Fascists and zealots were always going to vote. The decision was in the hands of the people who didn't, and they're at fault exactly as much as fascists.
Because the DNC would rather get Trump elected than listen to their constituency.
While yes I'm sure it contributed, I think a lot of people voted because their rent and groceries were too expensive, so that means "vote for the party not in power". It makes zero sense, but I have to hope that they're just uninformed and desperate and not eager for what Trump and 2025 crew want.
Ultimately though, it's on them. It was their responsibility to know what they're voting for, and they failed. Now we can only hope they're too incompetent to do what they want.
In the US, people are apparently convinced that every week, the president decides on the price of groceries, petrol and rent.
That's exactly it, unfortunately.
And you cannot blame the moronic masses for voting for this apparently
Yeah make sure you never ever ever ever ever ever ever blame voters. It's always Democrats and never voters responsible. God fuck this world and every moron in it
The fact of the matter is: People need more than sticks to do anything; they need carrots. Nobody, me included, cares if you don't like how people didn't fear your preferred stick enough; that's just how people work. The failure remains squarely on the DNC who, having the perfect stick in Trump, refused to prepare a carrot and opted for a piece of shit hoping to attract some flies from the neighboring mountain-sized pile of shit. Getting angry at voters is like getting angry at the wind for destroying your paper house; I mean okay but maybe don't build a paper house?
Great mental gymnastics to pretend voters aren't responsible for their reprehensible actions! I'll try and adapt that to dodge blame every time I fuck up
I'm not American so I didn't really fuck up anything. I still it's the responsibility of candidates to get people to vote for them. I don't care if you didn't like it, but expecting people to vote for a pile of shit to avoid a bigger pile of shit doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. The DNC, enabled by "hold your nose and vote for her" folks, failed to consider this basic fact and that lost them the white house and senate. Well, congrats.
Way to misunderstand the simple point
They're not the one misunderstanding anything.
Always relevant...
(...if slightly ableist)
White women, Hispanics, and black men all came out in droves voting for Trump.
Inflation, housing, and further on the right xenophobia. Clinton was right, "it's the economy, stupid".
Jesus Christ, I just realized Jimmy Carted lived to see his country die.
Baffling. We already rejected this guy once when he had less baggage. His first term was objectively terrible.
So, I guess America has kings now, because Trump will never see another day in court for his crimes, and he's not going to prison.
I just don't have the strength anymore. I'm teetering on the brink of agreeing with the accelerationists and just letting it happen. The faster Trump ruins the country, the sooner we can rebuild it while we still have time to enjoy it.
First they came for the illegal immigrants and I did not speak out because I was a legal citizen.
Then they came for the LGBTQ members and I did not speak out because I am straight.
Then they came for the non-whites and I did not speak out because I am white.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
Is it because woman? Like holy shit, Biden was an old fuck and still won last time. Hillary didn't win. Wtf, is it really because woman!?
Listen to any random Trump speech, replace "migrants" with "jews" and you have a Hitler speech.
I don't understand why you people only kill your good presidents.
"John Kennedy, murdered. Gandhi, murdered. Martin Luther King, murdered. Jesus, murdered. Reagan, wounded.” - Bill Hicks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp3nFQVaAiw
Because the good presidents were the ones who stood up against the evil Southern states.
At least 2 people decided to try this time
I mean... McKinley was only so/so.
Novikov self-consistency principle.
Seems to have worked for Jesus. Maybe they're trying to bring about his second coming? Althought it thought it was the other side that was into that kind of stuff.
I guess I underestimated just how many americans have a problem with a PoC + Woman candidate, perhaps it was an error from the dems to not run a white guy at this moment.
It wouldn't have mattered.
The numbers showed turnout on the left was pathetic compared to 2020, while turnout on the right was basically the same.
The monsters always win in the long run because they're fanatics and don't stop to think.
Eh. This was one of the chief concerns for those of us that resisted Biden stepping down that late in the race. No time for a primary, so Harris had to be the candidate. I was pleasantly surprised at the great reception she enjoyed for the first month, but the hype obviously didn't reach far beyond the solidly blue base.
The only reason there was not enough time was because Biden took his time abdicating. We had more than enough time for primaries had Biden stepped down earlier.
White women, latino men, etc. It's just sad to see.
Don't play dumb, she was unpopular with the left and did nothing to help with it. "Eat it up because otherwise it's trump" doesn't get you votes.
It wasn't a good reason not to vote for her, but unfortunately is one of the reasons some people didn't vote. She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.
She should have focused on courting Democrats instead of being all chummy with a Cheney.
The problem with that is that Democrats' insistence on incrementalism in all things had destroyed their credibility when they say that they'll help people. No, they'll start some investigations, throw up a hurdle in their own path, gleefully announce that it's insurmountable, and then scream that everyone who saw what they just did doesn't know how government works.
We gave Democrats enough seats. They used them predictably.
You're ignoring that 2 independents caucus with Democrats. It's dishonest to exclude them. But you're splitting hairs because it's convenient for your excuses.
You can blame religion for trump. A rapist con man who never goes to church is their new jesus. What a fucking cult.
I never questioned.
I just hoped.
In vain.
Don't think it won't happen to you. When the incoming wave of Ukrainian refugees hits Europe, the populists that have already been growing in popularity will make their move. With the U.S. fallen, a lot of money and attention has been freed up to destabilize other countries.
It's happening in Italy. It's happening in the Netherlands. It's happening in France. If you think you are ready for it, remember that we thought the same.
My one takeaway from this is that primaries are important. Republicans held a primary, nominated an incomprehensibly stupid candidate, and managed to win.
Dems held no primary, Biden strong armed his way into the de-facto nomination for a second term, and was replaced by his VP when he imploded on the campaign trail. At no point did Dem voters ever get to have a say in their candidate this year. Not that Kamala or Joe are bad candidates, but clearly, they're lacking something if Trump was able to win again after changing nothing from 2020.So, the DNC fucked us again and we got Trump a second time in exactly the same way.
I mean it's quite different. Hitler wasn't elected (at least not prior to seizing power and effectively banning all opposition). Instead the Nazis got a plurality of just 33% in the Reichstag election, which led to failure to form a government. Then Hitler somehow convinced the center right President to grant him powers which he promptly started abusing and the rest is history.
In other words, 1930s Germany can kind of defend itself in ways the US can't.
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there's an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
Read theory. A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list for Marxism if you'd like, but this is a good starting point.
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
As an American, our bell was tolling long ago and so few of us cared to listen. (This is a quote from Carl Sagan's book from nearly 20 years ago).
America is likely now doomed. We'll balkanize into minor states that join either the axis or allies of WWIII until we mostly dissolve altogether and the next wave of history and death and rolls through. Though seeing the rise of fascism on the world scale, I think we're generally just doomed, all of us. Perhaps we're just an avenue for AGI to wipe us out and go fight other AGIs on some intergalactic scale not much different from our own inability to get along and work together. Perhaps I've been drinking myself to stupor now that I see what has happened.
We have always known why Hitler rose to power, and we know why Trump was reelected. When people are economically depressed and a man comes to you and tells you “This isn’t your fault, I will persecute those who are responsible and personally make things better for you.” It’s human nature, out of fear, frustration, or desperation to grasp that hand. We as a people are not ready to trust the guy who says “This is our fault, and it will be hard, but we have to fix this together”. Take everything you know about Hitler and Trump and OUR world out of it, take out your reasoning and tap into your monkey brain for a second and simply ruminate on those two propositions. Which one would you rather be true? You can’t honestly tell me the latter. You may know the latter is true, but it would be so much easier on you if the first was true.
Like it or not, we aren’t as evolved as we like to think, and those of us who consider ourselves enlightened are vulnerable to our lizard brains at one point or another.
Yeah, but it was never between Hitler and a woman! Yanks hate nothing more than women, so what did you expect?
Why. We lived through 4 years of that shit already. Why did we do this to ourselves again.
Proof that sometimes people don't learn the lesson the first time...
Don't worry guys. We'll run another centrist in 2028 too. But this time it'll work.
Being a centrist is not Harris' problem. Harris' problem was being non-white and a woman in a nation of fickle uninformed voters.
Sure, that didn't help, but she also was a "more of the same" candidate (she's rhe current VP!)
As much as I wanted her to win, she was always a stupid choice in at a time where voters can essentially all agree on one thing: they want change.
Status quo politics is dead, the dems just haven't realized it yet. As braindead as Trump and a most of his policies are, people like that he doesn't give a shit about disrupting things to achieve his goals.
yes, his goals.
You're right, I agree with you and I think his goals are both damaging and stupid... but at the end of the day his strategy is winning and we will obviously have to adapt to beat it.
Democrats would rather lose and blame the left.
We ran a centrist in 2020 and it worked.
Barely...
Biden wasn't really a centrist in the same way Harris was. Biden ran on a progressive-ish platform, and mostly backed it up with action. He sure as hell didn't run on fracking and locking up immigrants like Harris is.
... What the fuck are you talking about
The difference is she is a woman. Denying it won't change a fucking thing.
The Dems should definitely move more central on social issues, as the US election system has a huge built in rural bias.
Then focus on more broad-reaching progressive economic topics. Less focus on legislation targeting specific marginalized groups and more on policies which would impact everyone directly. As a potential example, Universal Basic Income ("Freedom Bonus" or whatever it was called) was one such policy which was floated a couple elections ago.
Okay that's just copium, but it's jot because she was a centrist either. Harris wasn't even trying to campaign competently or listen to her constituency; ultimately that's what did her in.
Sounds exactly like a centrist to me.
LOL. Voting in the USA is over. There will be no future elections. And I hope you like church.
it's sarcasm mate but yeah I hope they like it too
Oh, you think Trump won't break the barriers and sit for life?
statistically, if he wins, he's likely to sit for life even if he doesn't cancel future elections (or however he plans to suppress democracy), because, you see, he is very old and likely to die soon (but probably not soon enough for my taste).
Look at the guy. He's going to die before the end of the term and Vance will take over. That's when the real fun begins.
Based on how he did with his speech to his supporters, I don't think that'll be for very long...
Clearly the problem is that she didn't move far enough to the right. She only got 2 Cheneys.
I know you're trying to be an asshole but looking at the election results that apparently actually was the issue. Our electorate wants a right wing fascist
God damn, don't you fucking get it? Fascists are NEVER going to accept that a Democrat is one of them. Fascists aren't going to vote for you just because you adopt their policies and throw the right vulnerable populations under the bus. It doesn't matter how far to the right the party moves, fascists will never buy it.
But the left sure as hell will notice who you want to be besties with and who you take for granted.
Moving to the right has failed. Now do the only thing centrists do besides simp for Republicans and become abusive.
I didn't suggest we actually do it.
Yes, you did. And clearly you didnt look at the results. They say nothing about right wing policies trump was capped out and harris didnt have a platform to bring out her base. 20 million of them. Instead she shit on arabs, students, working class, lgbt+. She lost a huge upswing in support by tying herself to biden instrad of throwing him under the bus like she should have.
The writing was on the wall in 2020 when we argued about whether biden really committed to a single term.
We warned you, we pleaded with you, we scolded you that this would happen. But what do we know, we're just russian trolls.
We all went away today, as predicted.
😶🌫️ im invisible.
I saw some smug person saying that today all the accounts who criticized Biden/Harris (as equally as Trump, mind you) would turn off today. I think I'm gonna at least crank out more shitposts just to spite that one person.
Like hell.
I hope in the last leg of their campaign they dig up Nixon's bones and get a endorsement from him to try and draw in conservatives that don't care one bit about Nixon, and alternate and demotivate their actual base of voters!
How do I request asylum in a country that doesn't want to erase trans people?
He's already dehumanising foreigners (claiming they're all criminals and eating peoples pets) and trying to claim LGBTI are criminals
So, it's not actually a joke. He has already started following the Nazi playbook
Irrelevant. The people who tried to stop it already know how Hitler came to power, and the ones who should ask how it happened — the ones you should address your post to — either don’t care or actively want another Hitler.
But hey, at least you slammed the people who tried their hardest, rather than actually address conservatives themselves, which would have required you actually confronting them. Glad you feel better, though.
The dem message of "we won't do better but the other guy will do worse" failed. It was a bad message and it lost them the election against a terrible candidate. Voters need to be motivated to vote and that message isn't motivating enough
I'm watching it happen in real time and STILL questioning how it happened. Humans are some stupid motherfuckers. America burned its hand on Trump, and now a disturbing number of Americans are reaching for him again with the same hand, still blistered from the first time.
We need a solution to this, because honestly the US just lost its democracy.
It's 1933.
Any ideas on ways out of this?
Community for further discussion: ![email protected]
Some of us are still trying to figure out how this happened here. At least in between trying to figure out where and how to flee the country, and shutting down entirely.
The next question now is. Will your neighbors/friends/relatives cooperate with the new SS (ICE)
I'm tired. I want out.
I would be more concerned if he were less stupid. Going by his last presidency he'll spend half his time golfing and the rest driving through ineffective "red meat" policies to get attention from his base. Ultimately he's just a pathetic man who craves attention.
What concerns me more is that his destruction of political norms means that someone who is similarly evil - but actually capable - might be able to use him as a template to take power in the future and make America into a dictatorship. Someone like Xi Jinping as opposed to an aging B-list celebrity.
I'm still going to question it. We're literally living through it and I don't understand it.
Well you see... Kamala had no substantial policy positions that help the working class of america, she refused to challenge the status quo, mocked her supporters, and ran towards people who love trump more than life.
And then individuals instead of recognizing these facts demanded people vote for the lesser evil like it was a blessing to be able to do so besides a cross to carry and wonder why people didnt show up.
Tell me where was harris during the boeing strike?
absolutely no one acted like voting blue was a blessing and claiming that is so incredibly disingenuous. every single debate I saw here was very clear about how it is always a lesser of evils so don't dare pretend like it wasn't.
it's also incredibly pathetic to claim she is status quo when douchebag deluxe has already been president once and did fuck all to help anyone but himself.
you gas bags never argue in good faith and have the memory of a broken stick.
😮💨 remind me who lost the election again by literally shedding support? Oh right you and harris.
We were never arguing with you. We. Were. Fucking. Telling. You.
I will vote third party this year because of Harris' support for genocide. Be warned others in states you need may do the same and/or not show up.
Raaaaaarg YOU MUST VOTE LESSER EVIL.
🖕sit and spin you've earned it.
I'm not even American so technically you're the one who has lost. enjoy the shit hole you've dug for yourself with all that lofty idealism.
No lofty idealism here, its an understanding of human behavior. Something many of you lack.
You think we're not just as confused how it happened this time?
And also, never, EVER tell me again that racists and misogynists are only old people.
I remember seven years ago. Beautiful IV Reich there with caged migrant kids, white Americans publicly scolding people for speaking Spanish, improvisation all around, xenophobia as a government policy, riots on the streets. A revolution is due.
During the Trump presidency, I read a book entitled "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45". In it, a journalist gives an account of his interviews with people who had been rank-and-file members of the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany. It really is remarkable what similarities there are.
There are some things that I think will keep the US safe, at least for now. One is that Trump himself is old and will slow down soon. The other thing is that Hitler came to power against democratic institutions that were much, much weaker and younger than what the US has. The Weimar Republic had been established just 15 years prior, whereas the US has had a continuous government for nearly 250 years.
Trump or anyone trying to follow in his stead simply has a lot more in their way. Of course, that's no reason for complacency.
But I don't think the leopard will eat my face!
I'm just afraid the rest of the world will follow. Just heard Farage giggling on live tv
The ones who voted against him understand well how it happened. The ones who voted for him never questioned how, because it never entered their minds to care.
American Civil War 2.0 is running right to schedule.
In Germany Hitler only got around a third of the vote. Trump is winning the popular vote.
Crazy how being the lesser evil doesn't incentivize voters.
Best of luck, mates.
Where this country is going, we don't need luck. We need a fucking meteor to hit us, to put us out of our misery.
Its a buffet for the leopards. They'll coast on Biden's policies for a bit, when Trump plans take affect we'll see.
Right down to hitler giving out the free beer
only for Americans : it was McDonald’s.
Because of different countries voting for right wing governments recently and tonight, I've lost hope for this country and the planet.
Later add on: I have no clue why my post keep showing up as f'ed up text. If anyone know, please advise.
People talk about this often. I haven’t ever questioned how Hitler came to power in Germany, so that was easy.
I am utterly baffled. None of this makes any sense.
Don’t see anyone from .ml complaining. We’re the new tankies now.
🙁
I do not understand women's suffrage any longer at fucking all.
Germany, Jan 1933 = USA, Jan 2025
I think advocacy groups and other entities that were trying to make changes at a national or state level need to reevaluate their efforts. This election signals to me that the American people do not want these positive changes. They do not want to be civilized.
I think those advocacy groups should make a Pivot to Aid and focus their efforts on supporting the people that deserve it and want it, instead of trying to lift up a majority of people who do not want to be lifted up.
And YET there are downvotes. Unbelievable.
As I have said on Mastodon:
If I wasn't in college, you bet I'd be rushing to get to Canada!
Hitler didn't come to power by getting elected.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting “centrist” Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on “A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war”
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, won the election, then proceeded to make Hitler, chancellor and staff positions in government with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn’t get in power because people voted fascist, they got into power because liberals prefer fascism to working with communists.
Spot on!
So, we all get forced to use X (twitter) now?
What?
I did what I could. But there's more I have to do.
Horrible title for a thread. You people need to be asking questions about what just happened.
My question is not a logical one, but an emotional/moral one, like what I am asking now about us..
I just cannot get over the fact that if every man o. The country dropped dead the world be a better place.
Are we living in a fascist dictatorship? Did it happen already, did i miss it?
leftists: protest genocide
stupid copper: i'm speaking
aftermath: leopards ate that b*tch
free, free palestine
Because the candidate running against Hitler was so terrible that there was no enthousiasm left to stop Hitler?
You all need help lol
Well, he didn't do it democratically to my knowledge.
Yes because never questioning has worked out great for us so far
No, the dems did it to themselves for putting a shit candidate and not standing against genocide.
Wait, what? Thats a little bit of a stretch, don't you think? Under Hitler, 6 million jews and millions of others were imprisoned, starved and slaughtered. I know some Jewish people who are fairly offended by this comparison. I know at first people were largely being hyperbolic, but its become clear that many actually feel this way. He aint Hitler guys, not even close. Thats kinda ridiculous.
Hitler got his ideas from people in USA because USA has always been a racist slave empire.
USA has had several Hitlers before and after Hitler. It's no surprise when there's another one. Kamalacaust was just Hitler lite.
🥱 you'll feel better in a few days
Lib cope lmao. Thanks for the monies on Polymarket.
Exaggerating is how you idiots lost