Or you can use literal sounds instead of words. My spouse and I have this thing going on where we make this kind of squeak/baloon sound with our mouth which has the same effect as "hi, nice to see you".
Me and my gf usually say Ahoozles (shortened from Anyhoozles) and just a way of saying “I want to talk to you, I just don’t know what I want to talk about
We just say "you know..." and then the other person will either say "yep/same" or "no I don't know" depending on the mood. And if the cat makes noise we'll also just say "I know buddy me too"
My wife and I do things in threes: three taps, three nudges, three blinks, three noises, whatever. It means “I love you”. It’s a nice way to say it when you’re too tired to say it. I think it originated when we’d say it as we were falling asleep.
Everything is a balance and people are different anyways. I don't know many people who like any of the extremes. But it's a different amount for everyone. And the "partner" thing is strange anyways. As long as you're madly in love, you probably enjoy hearing about every pea in their canteen meal. That might fade after 20 years of marriage. Or a stressful day at work. Or with kids. Or it doesn't. Both is fine. As long as it's consenting partners. 😆
The key to understanding is finishing the sentence.
"I hate small talk... with people I have no reason to talk to and don't care about."
I love my partner, and even when it's small talk I can listen all day, just to hear their voice and learn a little more about them, to feel closer to the person I married in many small ways.
But I don't care about what Jim at the laundry mat did last weekend, or which machine he thinks makes socks dry faster.
But I don't care about what Jim at the laundry mat did last weekend, or which machine he thinks makes socks dry faster.
tough. :) here's what he (might have) said: it's the 2nd and 3rd dryers from the left. the smaller ones. you also need to use the smaller 'double load' front-loading washers. those have an extra extract cycle and get the most water out. the dryers used to literally only cost 25c to dry most loads (an extra quarter for all denim or something), but they (new owners of the laundry) increased the minimum needed per-load to $1.50 (on top of more than doubling the washers' prices). greedy bastards.
Its only "small talk" if you dont actually care about what the other person says. If you are genuinely interested, then its just a conversation. Thats how i see it at least.
Yeah, this. Talking small is faking interest. I'm not good at that. But when I actually care about the other person, "what have you been up to" is meaningful. Cause I actually wanna know.
Yeah but small talk can get the ball rolling on a real conversation. It's just a way of initiating a conversation and it's giving an opportunity for someone to talk about things they might be interested in.
"It's nice day out today!" doesn't literally mean that. It means "there's an opportunity for us to do something outside if you'd like, but if not, perhaps you'd care to discuss something that's important to you instead? Of course you you aren't interested in having conversation or doing an activity, I'm perfectly fine with that too" but in a significantly more concise way. Sure you don't really care about their opinion on the weather or whatever small talk, but it's a completely open-ended expression of a willingness to have a conversation about something that matters to the other person. It's opportunity to have a real conversation without any pressure to have a real conversation.
Yeah but small talk can get the ball rolling on a real conversation.
It can also be used defensively to avoid having the ball get rolling on a real conversation. This is a key defensive use of small talk which can be deployed at occasions such as "Family Gatherings", "Workplace Water Coolers", "Sports Events".
If you know your relative is a conspiracy theorist and will inevitably try to use a gap in the conversation to talk about how the Jews are using their Space Laser to Direct Hurricanes at Lithium Deposits to Remove the Lawful Inhabitants from their Rightful Land... deploy small talk to avoid this.
P.S. Avoid "the weather" as that's an opening to talk about how the recent hurricane was controlled by Blackrock.
To be fair, had it been possible to control hurricanes, I have no doubt that Blackrock would try to use it to extract profit but they're hardly alone in that.
Sure, but the real evidence that these conspiracies are bullshit is that it involves all these wealthy, powerful people working together. Sure, Blackrock would want to use weather control technology, if it existed, to clear people off land it wanted. But, there are plenty of other billionaires or centi-billionaire companies who would want to know about and use weather control technology. For example, Disney. They're a nearly 200 billion dollar company that make a lot of their money from cruises, theme parks and resorts, places which are dependent on good weather. If there were any hint that weather control technology were real, they'd be using it to keep the weather good at their resorts. If Blackrock were using weather control tech in a way that might wreck things at Disney World, do you think Disney would just go along with it?
There are a few things that rich people agree on, like wanting to keep their wealth. But, mostly they got rich because they were incredibly selfish. The idea that they could maintain any kind of conspiracy to do anything other than keep taxes low is pretty insane.
I mean that's basically why a lot of us are great at small talk: we actually do care about the contents of that low stakes conversation with strangers.
If people small-talk in sign language, would it be called small-talk?
Your remark about "spoken words" made be think about this and I find it curious, since "small-talk" has become something of a fixed expression.
While words related to vocal conversations do appear in other phrases like "being left speechless" for example, I imagine "small-talk" to be more of a thing on its own in today's usage.
That’s a good point - do we “speak” sign language? I’d never given it much thought. I think it was lazy writing on my behalf; the phrase “spoken words” could probably be tweaked to make it more obviously inclusive of all the signers out there.
The meaning of free will is exactly what people are discussing when they talk about whether or not it exists. What does and what doesn't count as free will is what's up for discussion.
I think free will as a concept is kinda stupid I've yet to talk to anyone who can actually give it a solid definition that isn't something like "it means we can do what we want"
Either your decision is based on your personality, meaning it's not free it's a set calculation based on genetics and accumulated experience or it's completely random meaning it's not will at all
Free will as a philosophical concept has less to do with "I can do what I want" and more to do with "I have control over my actions/thoughts." This gets into all sorts of interesting corners, such as:
if God exists and is all-knowing, can God know what you're about to do? If God does, is it really your choice, or just something God planned long ago?
if God doesn't exist, then we're all products of everything that came before. Assuming that's the case, a sufficiently powerful computer with a sufficiently large amount of data could determine what you're about to do. If that's the case, is it really your choice, or are you just a really complex automaton where the inputs (your life experiences and current situation) exactly determine your actions?
in either of the above cases, if you're unaware that another observer knows what you'll do, do you retain free will? Does free will disappear the moment you learn of this observer? Can knowing about the observer change your actions in an unpredictable way, or can actions always be predicted?
And so on. There are some interesting discussions there at the edges, like at what point AI gains free will. That can have very real moral implications (i.e. when does AI get personhood?), so it's not just idle chat.
Can your free will be restricted in any way? Someone in prison has less agency than you or I, if that means his free will is restricted then we have more free will than he does. Therefore it exists.
If you just start talking to some random person about it, then you're unlikely to get a high-quality conversation; because most of the stuff people will say about it is inane or obvious or obviously wrong, etc. But there are definitely interesting discussions and thoughts that can be had about it.
I've had countless garbage conversations about, and a handful of good ones. Probably my favoutite take is from Daniel Dennett's book "Freedom Evolves". He is very careful to build up a strong picture of what is it that we're talking about and what the 'obvious' problems are, before then carefully and systematically showing those things aren't really problems with what we were talking about anyway. Before reading that book, I was hard line in the camp of "obviously free will doesn't exist; that's a scientific fact"; but after reading it... well, I'd now say "it depends exactly what you mean, but probably the free will you're talking about does exist.".
When I get my ballot with an uncontested seat, I can still choose whether to check the box. Even though it doesn't impact the outcome at all, I still have the choice on whether to check the box. Even if I am completely restrained and my movements are forced, I still have the choice of whether to accept or resist that action, even if it's just a mental protest.
So I don't think there's ever a case where there are no other options, but there are plenty of situations where there are no other good options (e.g. cake or death), but that doesn't restrict your free will, it just restricts your options.
The concept behind linear chaos is that the chaos is bound at one point. The theoretical cone of influence can only move in one direction and widen at a set rate. Kind of a mashup of chaos over time.
Yeah, chaos crops up in linear systems sometimes in unexpected places.
There are a couple of scientific papers on it, and at least one textbook. Even at that I'm not sure it's a well-accepted theory, but the idea suits me.
One time I was talking about this with my friends. I said I believe it exists and they all laughed and said "particles have rules, you're made of particles." 🥺
Can confirm, I hold our evenings together laying in bed next to each other reading different books or whatever in high esteem. We're not disfunctional, we're just introverted, though we like each other's company.
If I'm making smalltalk with my SO, it's because there's something more weighty I want to discuss, but I'm looking for a way to broach that topic in a better way. So regardless of how I feel about them, it's still an issue because it means I don't feel safe to attack the topic head-on.
That feels like a communication strategy tailored to your relationship rather than small talk. small talk, in my opinion, is meaningless banter without motive. This may be pedantic, but I just don't think I would classify that as smalltalk, since there's an objective and I'm theoretically engaged, I personally would have no issue with it.
It's when there's seemingly "no point" that I consider it difficult
Actually this. One of the most meaningful relationships in my life is a woman who will sit in silence with me at the opposite end of the couch, some random nonsense on TV and we're both just on our phones sharing memes with eachother. You don't need to fill every moment of silence between people with words
remembers Pulp Fiction scene least that's what comfortable silence makes me think of, and yes I agree, it's nice when a couple people can sit down and not feel like they have to say anything.
Holy crap I had no idea it was an actual anniversary! I just think in pop culture bits (memes). Neat. I so remember the first time watching it in the early teens, Tarantino can sure write fun random dialogue also sure was fun seeing Travolta be awesome again at the time after the baby movies. Not that I didn't enjoy Look Who's Talking,at the time, but who remembers those after Pulp Fiction for Travolta?
My wife is a VERY quiet person. She doesn't say a lot but when she does it's because she actually has something to say. This made me nervous when we were first dating but I've learned to embrace it. Silence is OK. She definitely talks more than she used to but we don't have to talk all the time. Sometimes she just looks at me and smiles without saying anything and in those moments I know that I am loved.
Same! It isn't so much the small talk, but being stuck making small talk with a stranger or coworker/distant relation or whatever that you have no interest in speaking to.
This is why I hate getting haircuts. I don't have any personal relationship with the person cutting my hair. Maybe we'll find a common interest, but if I could just wear earbuds the whole time and not seem like an asshole, I would. But instead I just shave my head when my hair gets long enough to annoy me.
Which... is pretty much the definition of small talk. If I'm making small talk, it's because I don't want you to feel awkward with the silence, which means I don't know you well enough to know what you prefer.
Yeah, I agree. I'm more social than I was ~10 years ago but that's because I've found good people to surround myself with. Back then I would've said I hate small talk. I didn't hate small talk, I hated the people I was talking with.
I'd like to have similar interactions with my significant other to the ones I have with my cats. You know, things like siting on the couch together... saying silly things in even sillier voices... staring into each other's eyes while blinking slowly... yelling at her to get down from the cupboard...
If my partner can't handle silence, then there's something seriously wrong. We usually have something to do and if we don't we just cuddle up. There's no need for constant noise.
Wife and I talk ALL the time about anything and everything, be it the weather, how weather works, of free will exists, the kids, if kids exists, you name it...
We're both introverts, so we're totally comfortable just sitting next to each other reading different books, or cuddling on a cold winter night. Sometimes we talk about random stuff, but quite often we're exhausted from dealing with other people but still want that proximity.
If you went outside and the weather was pleasant you'd never mention it to your wife? Never say anything like "have you been outside? It's so nice today!"
Genuine appreciation for the weather enough to declare it to those around you isn't small talk. Small talk is generic filler dialogue you do as a formality.
If you're being that reductive about the definition of small talk then I don't think small talk exists between couples who have known each other for a long time because you're just regular talking.
Oh no, they were about to do the thing, but then the opposition, in a shocking display of competence, stopped them from doing the thing and did the thing themselves!
This has been a major setback in the quest to gain possession of the large ornament typically given to the most competent group!
I think there's a misconception regarding what counts as small talk. "Bland conversation that has no real point but to escape silence" is small talk. Asking you how your day went because I care about you is not. "How's the weather?" is small talk. "How was your trip to the grocery?" is small talk. These are dumb things and, if your relationship can't bear the silence that would be interrupted because "The vegan sausages were on sale today", then it prolly doesn't need to exist.
I'm not entirely sure what counts as small talk. When I think of it, it's usually conversation between strangers or acquaintances where neither party knows the safe topics, the topics to be avoided, or even the general preferences of the other. It's all testing water stuff.
I think that's what people actually mean when they say they hate small talk. They hate the awkwardness of not yet knowing enough about their interlocutor to know they won't accidentally upset anyone. Or they don't have the skill to navigate that social space to avoid negative consequences. It can feel downright dangerous in some circumstances.
And that's tough. Because the socialites think it's a skill issue, which it often is. And unfortunately if you don't learn that skill growing up, the social consequences of being bad at small talk only get bigger and more dangerous, which prevents folks from being able to practice freely.
It's funny cause to me it's always meant a third entirely different thing! To me small talk is just starting from a basic place to feel each other out a bit, bringing up mundane things and simple questions to find topics we could drill further into.
"How was your day" to a partner would be small talk, even though I care about what they're saying - I'm just asking so they can bring up something to talk about. "Weather's been shit lately" to a stranger is small talk, but the ensuing story about how they had to rush to work late in the rain would not be.
Given it means three different things to three random people, it's almost like "small talk" actually covers a broad set of social purposes and people who "aren't into it" might actually be missing a lot 😝
My comment above was more trying to express what I think "small talk" means to the people who always complain about small talk, maybe. Unsure. Slightly elevated atm.
This is how I feel as well. Small talk at it's best is a way to transition into more detailed topics without plunging into them headfirst.
With friends and partners, I think small talk like "How was your day?" Provide a jumping off point for what they want to talk about or, in the worst case, will result in them not wanting to talk. If someone had a terrible day and is exhausted, it doesn't help to start a conversation about the meaning of life when they probably just want to relax.
I don't disagree with you at all, but the screenie was of a message addressing communication between people who are supposedly in an intimate conversation. One should hope that their conversations can be more substantive, personal, and easy-going in a romantic relationship.
Some ability to break ice with strangers using brief small talk is useful as a starting point for conversation, but if you truly know me, say what you need to say or enjoy the ASMR of my presence.
Yup. I ask my SO how they slept because I know they tend to go to bed late and I want to know if I should make time for them to take a nap or something.
We only talk about the weather when we're deciding on plans for the day (e.g. picnic or dine in today?).
If you're talking just to talk, you've already lost.
Not the OP, but I seem to share at least some form of his experience and I actually think this "song" does a really good job of summarizing how I feel about it.
I am as sure there is someone out there for me as I am of anything else I have a high degree of confidence in. On the matter of whether we will ever meet or not though, that I can't say. Maybe the world is too large and time is too great. In the grand scheme of things we will find out soon enough.
Of course, though unfortunately the decision is not a binary one. If a person spends their whole life searching and not finding, it could be that putting the same amount of time and energy into something else would have resulted in a more fulfilling life. There are shades of gray with this too since it's not one or the other. Like most things it's all about balance.
The problem is the lack of people's interest in deep topics,
I'm not sure about that. I think small talk serves occasions where you might want to keep it polite as deeper topics tend to become emotionally loaded disputes.
For example, going to a bubble tea shop. Usually, you don't want to discuss the meaning of life with the shop keeper, but it may be a nice gesture to talk a bit about the small things in life. Small talk is a good way to share a pleasant conversation and appreciate each other.
Furthermore, small talk can serve as an opener to deeper topics if the occasion arises and everyone seems to be in the mood for such deeper topics.
Anyway, my wife and I are friends with the shop keeper now and we've talked about the weather, religions, vacations and how to raise children.
You can talk about ideas on what to do in the bedroom or kitchen instead of the weather. My girlfriend and I talk about the nature of the universe and consciousness quite often.
My inability to carry even a basic conversation is just one of many reasons I have no plan to be in any kind of relationship, sustained or not, meaningful or not
I always took it as an early red flag that the person is way too intense and stressful to be around if every conversation has to be a do or die dynamic.
It's not that it has to be that exciting. Just don't talk endlessly about shit that doesn't matter. You bought a new kind of mustard, I don't need a 20 minute explanation on why. To me, someone who can't exist without noise, or making noise is a red flag. That being said, early on in the relationship is different because you're still trying to get to know them.
I agree. I think they're looking at this wrong or maybe just picked a poor example of what they're trying to explain. Talking about hobbies and things that excite you isn't a red flag at all.
That's it. Hobbies? Interesting musings? Sure. Even how their day was. But nobody is excited enough about mustard to hear about it for that long. Or people who "think out loud" they say something and I'm like "what?" They respond "just thinking out loud" or "talking to the dog" and then get mad at me for not listening to the important stuff because I simply don't have the time or mental capacity to filter that.
But nobody is excited enough about mustard to hear about it for that long
I think this is different.
The issue is people who can't read the room. People just blabbing and talking AT someone. That's not even small talk. That's just holding someone verbally hostage.
Right, but like I pointed out several times, they're not any more excited about the mustard than I am. They just like hearing themselves talk. And it wasn't about trying the new one, it was just 20 minutes about why the mustard she used to get wasnt good enough anymore. Like 20 minutes of mustard bashing just to say "I thought I'd like to try a new one".
Yup. If my SO and I don't have anything more urgent to say, we generally talk about upcoming plans, like next year's vacations, shopping lists, etc. We almost never talk about the weather unless we're planning to be out in it.
Been together >10 years, small talk is pretty rare and largely reserved for entertaining guests.
I think you're viewing this wrong. If my friend is a foodie and really excited about their new mustard I'd want to hear them be excited about it and know why they like it.
I was here first so no, I’m not going away or to ‘where I cam from’. Especially considering You’re the one who invited yourself here. You seem pretty desperate to have interaction with someone who is fine with small talk. I would have thought you’d catch that drift and go back to where you came.. I even left the warning there for you to avoid. I wasn’t exactly hiding it. Small talk isn’t going away. But you can choose to avoid it or cry about it more, fragility.
The only people in real life i have met who have ever complained about small talk were in the context of "i do not care enough about [the people around me] to pay attention to anything [they] say not directly relevant to me/my hyperfocus" and i just realize they're the "everyone else is an npc" crowd and let them be sulky all the time and hate every social thing they have to do, and I'll have a fine time chatting with the cashier about her day! These are always the same people who say everyone else is boring, not that they have given anyone the time of day.
Tbh if they see others like that im happy to not give them my time and show interest in them either. All social is give and take on every level and those people are always takers. We're where we are now because of people who can't bother to care about the lives of others.
I've seen women like that on dating apps. Claim to hate small talk, include in their bio that if you just open with "hi" they'll unmatch you, and then when you put some thought into actually writing a response, ask a leading question about their interests or what they wrote in their profile, they unmatch you anyway.
I think this was written by someone who isn't comfortable with extended periods of silence with their partner.
My wife and I barely speak or communicate nonverbally for hours sometimes, then talk at great length other times. We always give each other an opportunity to talk about our day or whatever else is important, but we don't talk about trivial things simply for the sake of talking. We're comfortable with silence.
Idk I took it more to mean "wow I don't want to start a deep, thoughtful conversation the moment I get home from work let me relax for a minute" while at the same time still wanting to talk to your partner. But I guess it's up to reader interpretation and I do seem to be in the minority here.
I just feel like a lot of people here are defining "small talk" as "a conversation that I don't want to have" rather than any meaningful definition.
I would consider stepping outside in the morning with your partner and stating "oh wow it's such a nice day today" to be small talk. It's a conversation without an end goal, sure, but I don't think it's as worthless as people are making it out to be.
I would say it is likely complex. One might also assume for similar simplistic reasons that small talk is primarily used by people who get insecure if someone else isn't constantly acknowledging their presence by talking with them about something.
Likely neither of those simplistic explanations do the full complexity of social dynamics justice.
Someone once pointed out to me that what I consider small talk might be someone else's important.
Sure it might seem like gossip or chat about the weather just for the sake of talking but it can equally be someone trying to say that they are lonely and need reassurance.
I think about that a lot and I've become a lot more tolerant. Besides, you can segue into some pretty big chat from such humble starts.
They seem ritualistic social interactions. Like some bird's courtship dance except there's no relationships interest.
So it's just a burden that I didn't want to participate in unless I have a genuine friendship.
This poor individual has never been in a lasting relationship.
If you can’t talk, in full, with your partner such that you somehow need small talk, that’s not a relationship, it’s a one night stand that happens to last for 3 months to a year.
As other people in this thread have said, it's usually more about the person than it is the topic. I'm happy to hear my wife talk about the weather tomorrow but if the guy behind me in line at the store does it I'm answering in grunts and annoyed expressions.
Sure, but it also has more depth than the guy at the checkout. It ties into the garden, the potential outdoor activities, possibly premade plans, possible seasonal house prep (stow the hoses, shut off the outside water, bleed the lines.). And all manor of things tied to your life together. Thus it’s not really small talk.
I think it makes the most difference in how we treat crime and punishment. If you accept that there is no free will, then the concept of punitive sentences is unhelpful at best, or barbaric at worst.
and on the flip side, billionaires who win the cosmic lottery are nothing special. everything was preordained for them.
Imagine having a relationship based on talking about the weather today. I talk about things I enjoy talking about. If I don't have anything to say then quiet is peaceful. 😊
When family/friends asks you how you are doing but don't listen to the answer that really sucks. Or they hear what they expect and make a comment that clearly means they weren't listening.
Personally I found that too much of small talk is someone saying or asking something with no intention of listening. Maybe they think they are being polite or some social obligations to talk but I hate it.
If I ask "How you doing?" "How's work?" I'm going to listen to your answer. If I make a comment about the weather and you comment back I will listen.
Quantum physics, theoretical alien biology, the alleged obsolescence of battleships... Do these all count as small talk? Because this is the stuff my wife talks about with me.
Alleged? Oh man, let me just get out my modern day naval warfare mini figs, and the modern rulebook (do you like 2e or 3e?), and let's see your battleships take on my missile destroyers! It is ON, Farragut!
I mean, yeah?
That's always been my relationships, I've only ever had pretty long-term ones.
Do y'all literally talk to your significant others about the goddamn weather or food every day?
Idk about y'all but in my current relationship I'd usually start with an in-depth analysis of some latest media I consumed or a geopolitical development, we'll be briefly reflecting upon developments in Palestine or Ukraine or UK politics or the latest on the US election while we share a couple Red Bulls and try new Elfbar flavours.
Sometimes this descends into a hearty debate on economics like whether increased taxation can raise the value of currency through demand creation (technically but it's not an effective measure), however eventually i will be pivoting into a technology I had learned about or historical context for some such, perhaps reflecting upon my cybersec exploits, relating to my independent study or my dayjob.
At some point she'd relate it to a material or technique she's been studying for her masters in material engineering, she'd remark on disliking inorganic chemistry, and we'd get into in-jokes, (latest being about Aerobiz 2000 for the Sega Genesis and my interest in the inner workings of an A320 and less than stellar business acumen) which will inevitably make us watch a video essay on YT or play a light game together like Life is Strange or HOI4 or even just listen to some music, later we'd order some Domino's Pizza and have some intimate times, a couple of nice sweet Barefoot wines and maybe a bit of Kinder Chocolate (not Bueno) for dessert later, we're asleep.
Sometimes we get nostalgic and talk about what life was like before we met on Tinder or talk about our future dreams, plans and aspirations.
I think smalltalk is okay when you're in a work meeting and you just want the coworkers to go away as soon as possible and let you get back to sleep, but I'd never date someone who is so socially inept that they would resort to smalltalk.
And thus a healthy relationship wherein the individuals are mutually becoming smarter, with better norms, instead of increasing the normalcy of less intelligencegrowing conversation as their minds and norms deteriorate from it. Weird how it's the rarity.
I hope it's not, and this is just twitter being twitter but you never know I suppose. Not worth making assumptions over one tweet, least of all about anything in the real world, nothing further from reality than the average tweeter.
I tell jokes. I don't really do small talk. But, yes most conversations are deeply personal and deeply philosophical. I have lots of great friends, a lovely wife, a good job and fantastic kids. So yes, you can do just fine with almost no small talk. Become yourself, not what some unimaginative poster on the internet desperate for validation of their opinions thinks people should or shouldn't become.
Personally I think that small talk is also regional. Some places small talk might be discouraged at a store while other places it might be encouraged. The same might be for the subway, a restaurant, the bathroom, etc, depending on the country or culture it may be totally ok or exceptionally discouraged.
I once went to a public swimming pool in Austria, half the pool was for nudists and the other half was for clothed persons. The restroom for clothed people was very long, but the restroom for nudists was busy but short. I ended up going to the nudist restroom and a 50+ year old naked guy walked up and started talking to me while using a pissoir. Basically he was asking why I was dressed at the nudist portion of the pool, I told him the line was shorter, he laughed, and went about his pissing.
I don't know about encouraged, but it's definitely not uncommon in some places. Small talk doesn't have to be a lot of communication either, it can be as little as basic platitudes. It's things like sitting at the bar in a pub and the guy beside you points out an amazing play on the television or it could be the person on the bus pointing out something crazy they see out the window.
Honestly, I always engage in small talk. You can hate it but I see you on a regular basis and I'm always attempting to make a connection, one day we will connect.
The weird shit in my head is not suitable for public utterance. I can give you engaging statements or appropriate statements, but one statement that is both requires far more effort.
Small talk with strangers, acquaintances, neighbors is draining even when I like those people. Those closest to me do not require appropriate statements, so with them it never feels like small talk.
If you date someone for 2+ years, at that point, you know what their opinions are on all meaningful topics. All there is left to discuss is small talk: how's your day, did you like the TV show, etc.
Unless your both happy sitting in silence, you'll probably drift apart.
Edit: I think the issue a lot of people here have is not small talk itself, its small talk with strangers. Asking a loved one about their day is small talk, but that doesn't diminish its value.
I've been married for 7 years. I do ask my wife how her day was, but that is because I actually care. How can people do this with strangers? Is it just assumed everyone is asking everyone else how their day was even if they don't actually care?
Tbh, I don't know, I don't like chatting to strangers either, but when a stranger asks how my day is, or how the weather is, I assume they don't really care. Which means I can lie to them to wrap it up if I want. The level of care is probably proportional to the closeness? Small talk with partner == important, care a lot, small talk with neighbour == less important, less care, small talk with stranger == not important, no care?
I also care about the "how was your day" convo with my partner, but I consider it small talk as there is usually nothing critically important about it. Its not gonna result in a major financial or life decision 99% of the time.
Yes, I'm aware of how people like to take science and jump to conclusions that kinda sound like they fit with the science, but they do not actually. This is called pseudoscience
I'm not arguing for either determinism or non-deterministism here, but let me ask you this:
If every action has a cause, and every action has a subsequent reaction, and all these chains of events follow predictable rules, what is the factor of "randomness" that allows for free will to exist?
Genuinely curious to hear your opinion seeing your stance on this is very strong.
Just adding to this: any modern arguments using the probabilistic nature of quantum phenomena to fight determinism are wrong. Einstein made a theory called 'hidden variable theory' saying there were causes we couldn't see (duh). A guy named Bell 'proved it wrong' by arguing against something einstein said in it about data being in multiple places simultaneously. Had nothing to do with whether hidden variables exist. But the headlines were 'hidden variable theory proved wrong' implying to the public that there are somehow no causes of things below a certain level and that an illogical foundation of 'probability' somehow underlies everything. Einstein once said it was silly to think an electron is in an undetermined state until measured when he can see it's path in a cloud chamber. It clearly is a thing constantly existing.
With the errors of the foundational days of quantum physics out of the way, how can one argue against a thought or action having causes preceding it? Even if we are in woowoo land where everyone is spirits with minds existing separately in different worlds, there are still variables determining what those minds think. Only seeming alternative explanation so far is the faulty quantum probability field... which is wrong.
Bell did prove mathematically that a local hidden variables theory is unable to explain observed quantum mechanics. This doesn't rule out nonlocal hidden variable theories, but a) that is called superdeterminism, and b) that would mean that there would be faster-than-light interactions, and that is in many ways weirder.
I disagree. "Einstein once said it was silly to think an electron is in an undetermined state until measured when he can see it’s path in a cloud chamber." I am definitely of the einstein view and not the mainstream quantum scientist view. According to me, things, like einstein's electron DO have actual states when not 'observed' and do not need to 'be observed and collapse in to a form at that time'. At every point in it's path thru that cloud chamber the electron has it's form WHICH IS SUPEROBVIOUS TO SEE even tho the quantum math has no idea what to do about it and is like 'no does not fit in the math thus cannot exist'. In reality, the electron does not need to be measured to have it's form. Same with the 'entangled' particles Bell uses. Just because it is measured later does not mean it did not have it's form while not measured ~which is common sense to me and blows up Bell's Theorem before even having to reach to exotic theories. Weird to me stuff like that is not common sense. But I personally think quantum physics went wrong waaaaaay at the start and is riddled with exotic theories based on good data but faulty definitions and conclusions (such as the doubleslit experiment being touted as 'a single photon being let thru' when it's a guy shining a very dim light for a month and taking a slow exposure pic. Shining light for 1 month = 1 Photon. Does not match common sense. Throws off future work. But is definitionwise accurate as quanta is 'a level of energy'). So meh. Disagree. Nice you know your stuff tho.
"You do not mention the path of the electron at all, Heisenberg. But yet when you look in a cloud chamber the electron's track can be observed quite directly." "Don't you think that it's strange to say that there is a path for the electron in the cloud chamber, but there is no path for the electron in the atom?" ~Einstein
Yeah weird it would then be pure probability with no causes when it's inside the atom because that's what matches the mathematical framework of Quantum Physics while when it's in a cloud chamber ITS EXACT LOCATION AS A DISTINCT OBJECT IS CLEARLY VISIBLE. So yeah I'm with reality instead of that mathematical framework and don't see any issue with the same concept of 'having a form' applying to entanglement ~which 100% blows up Bell's theorem before it gets to multilocation.
Well first off we are seeing more and more that there are quantum effects in the brain, and we don't know what they all do or what role if any they play in conciousness.. We just know quantum shit is random and hard to predict while only really affecting things on the smallest possible levels. Second some elements are hard to predict because two things are equally probable.
Like if I go to get Ice Cream and I really like strawberry, but they're out and I can only choose Vanilla or Chocolate, then it's a 50/50 and the only thing that decides which I choose is my own decision.
Some things simply cannot be measured.
How do you record a dream? How do you measure someone's luck?
Small talk stinks
Small talk stinks
See the young man in his new gown
Talking up to his bouffant drag
He says he loves you with flowers
Something that he's never had
A sentence should be like a serpent
Quick with a sting in its tail
-bauhaus, Small Talk Stinks
Great thinkers have been telling us that free will is an illusion for decades.
I mean, that would be ridiculous......
Its me, they're talking about me aren't they?
Sorry, what i meant to say was, I think there's always at least two ways to go about things and, whatever side you fall on, you just have to follow your truth because, ultimately, you have to be true to yourself. I think thats all you can do really because, if you're not being true to yourself, then you're living a lie.
So, you've just got to do what you've got to do because, at the end of the day, it is what it is and that's not going to change anytime soon.
I've heard some people talking about not being able to sustain meaningful relationships. Well, I don't know much about that. But what I do know is that I enjoy the freedom of doing things my way and to just be me. If being against me not being me is wrong, then I don't think I want to want to be right.
Are you happy now? Is that what you wanted of is it still "too big" for you, John?
haha I just small talk to appease social standards. In my ideal reality, intelligent beings are creating and doing greater things themselves every day and viewing it like a wasted day if they have not. I could, right now, talk about my design decisions I'm coding in to this editor today and what some of the plans are for it as of now. I wouldn't talk about Why I'm focusing on the editor before the game because I've already been over that so there would be little gain for the ultimate quality of what I'm making in that conversation. And, with my ideal type of person, the conversation could easily drift in to what groundbreaking realms they are in too. It should be like this every day for an individual to be considered healthy.
Comparatively, small talk is a waste meant to give vocalization options to beings fulfilling low to medium potential roles that cannot enter any realm of novelty themselves ~followers that cannot be waymakers. I know I say this in a realm of 90% people who are just fulfilling a low potential role while otherwise 'passing the time', just like the person in the post. So downvote me. You know it's true tho and it isn't the smalltalkers who are the next feynmans, einsteins, etc. Where do you aim for yourself? 'passing the time' 'smalltalk' level or higher?
Sometimes you don't need to fill the silence with sounds. I'd rather be in a relationship with someone that we can sit down and be quiet together
Or you can use literal sounds instead of words. My spouse and I have this thing going on where we make this kind of squeak/baloon sound with our mouth which has the same effect as "hi, nice to see you".
A few steps away from becoming furries.
/satire
Hahahaha I love hearing about other people’s microcultures
Oh, good, I've been growing one myself, wanna see?
Me and my gf usually say Ahoozles (shortened from Anyhoozles) and just a way of saying “I want to talk to you, I just don’t know what I want to talk about
We just say "you know..." and then the other person will either say "yep/same" or "no I don't know" depending on the mood. And if the cat makes noise we'll also just say "I know buddy me too"
My wife and I do things in threes: three taps, three nudges, three blinks, three noises, whatever. It means “I love you”. It’s a nice way to say it when you’re too tired to say it. I think it originated when we’d say it as we were falling asleep.
Or fuck.
For most couples that takes up like 15 minutes once every 3-5 days or possibly much longer.
Longer than 15 minutes?
Longer than 3-5 days I think
I don't know if I have the stamina to go for 3 to 5 days, let alone longer!
Everything is a balance and people are different anyways. I don't know many people who like any of the extremes. But it's a different amount for everyone. And the "partner" thing is strange anyways. As long as you're madly in love, you probably enjoy hearing about every pea in their canteen meal. That might fade after 20 years of marriage. Or a stressful day at work. Or with kids. Or it doesn't. Both is fine. As long as it's consenting partners. 😆
The key to understanding is finishing the sentence.
"I hate small talk... with people I have no reason to talk to and don't care about."
I love my partner, and even when it's small talk I can listen all day, just to hear their voice and learn a little more about them, to feel closer to the person I married in many small ways.
But I don't care about what Jim at the laundry mat did last weekend, or which machine he thinks makes socks dry faster.
I kinda want to know about the sock thing.
So you're a small talk person
Sock drying speed is important information, not time filler like the weather or sports.
The weather is life and death info
Most people talk about how sunny it is today and not climate change
Unless the sport is competitive sock-drying.
But small talk is what got you your wife. What if Jim can be your future if you just gave him the time
Drag didn't get drag's dragon by doing small talk. Drag's dragon fell in love with drag because it was impressed with drag's magic.
Get yourself a girlfriend by impressing her with your arcane talents.
tough. :) here's what he (might have) said: it's the 2nd and 3rd dryers from the left. the smaller ones. you also need to use the smaller 'double load' front-loading washers. those have an extra extract cycle and get the most water out. the dryers used to literally only cost 25c to dry most loads (an extra quarter for all denim or something), but they (new owners of the laundry) increased the minimum needed per-load to $1.50 (on top of more than doubling the washers' prices). greedy bastards.
Its only "small talk" if you dont actually care about what the other person says. If you are genuinely interested, then its just a conversation. Thats how i see it at least.
Yeah, this. Talking small is faking interest. I'm not good at that. But when I actually care about the other person, "what have you been up to" is meaningful. Cause I actually wanna know.
Yeah but small talk can get the ball rolling on a real conversation. It's just a way of initiating a conversation and it's giving an opportunity for someone to talk about things they might be interested in.
"It's nice day out today!" doesn't literally mean that. It means "there's an opportunity for us to do something outside if you'd like, but if not, perhaps you'd care to discuss something that's important to you instead? Of course you you aren't interested in having conversation or doing an activity, I'm perfectly fine with that too" but in a significantly more concise way. Sure you don't really care about their opinion on the weather or whatever small talk, but it's a completely open-ended expression of a willingness to have a conversation about something that matters to the other person. It's opportunity to have a real conversation without any pressure to have a real conversation.
Also it's not that hard to do.
It can also be used defensively to avoid having the ball get rolling on a real conversation. This is a key defensive use of small talk which can be deployed at occasions such as "Family Gatherings", "Workplace Water Coolers", "Sports Events".
If you know your relative is a conspiracy theorist and will inevitably try to use a gap in the conversation to talk about how the Jews are using their Space Laser to Direct Hurricanes at Lithium Deposits to Remove the Lawful Inhabitants from their Rightful Land... deploy small talk to avoid this.
P.S. Avoid "the weather" as that's an opening to talk about how the recent hurricane was controlled by Blackrock.
To be fair, had it been possible to control hurricanes, I have no doubt that Blackrock would try to use it to extract profit but they're hardly alone in that.
Sure, but the real evidence that these conspiracies are bullshit is that it involves all these wealthy, powerful people working together. Sure, Blackrock would want to use weather control technology, if it existed, to clear people off land it wanted. But, there are plenty of other billionaires or centi-billionaire companies who would want to know about and use weather control technology. For example, Disney. They're a nearly 200 billion dollar company that make a lot of their money from cruises, theme parks and resorts, places which are dependent on good weather. If there were any hint that weather control technology were real, they'd be using it to keep the weather good at their resorts. If Blackrock were using weather control tech in a way that might wreck things at Disney World, do you think Disney would just go along with it?
There are a few things that rich people agree on, like wanting to keep their wealth. But, mostly they got rich because they were incredibly selfish. The idea that they could maintain any kind of conspiracy to do anything other than keep taxes low is pretty insane.
"it's not that hard to do" is absolutely giving never had a mental illness vibes
Completely this.
I mean that's basically why a lot of us are great at small talk: we actually do care about the contents of that low stakes conversation with strangers.
Yup, the only two things small talk and conversation have in common is that they take a minimum of two people and involve spoken words.
If people small-talk in sign language, would it be called small-talk?
Your remark about "spoken words" made be think about this and I find it curious, since "small-talk" has become something of a fixed expression.
While words related to vocal conversations do appear in other phrases like "being left speechless" for example, I imagine "small-talk" to be more of a thing on its own in today's usage.
That’s a good point - do we “speak” sign language? I’d never given it much thought. I think it was lazy writing on my behalf; the phrase “spoken words” could probably be tweaked to make it more obviously inclusive of all the signers out there.
Wife and I have a longstanding argument over whether free-will exists.
I say it does and she has no choice but to say otherwise.
I am forced to see what you did there :D
Consider this, free will can still be pre-planned. We can choose what we want to do, so what if it was pre planned? I still chose it.
I like to change definitions to secure my position also
what definition did I change?
The meaning of free will.
The meaning of free will is exactly what people are discussing when they talk about whether or not it exists. What does and what doesn't count as free will is what's up for discussion.
I think free will as a concept is kinda stupid I've yet to talk to anyone who can actually give it a solid definition that isn't something like "it means we can do what we want"
Either your decision is based on your personality, meaning it's not free it's a set calculation based on genetics and accumulated experience or it's completely random meaning it's not will at all
Free will as a philosophical concept has less to do with "I can do what I want" and more to do with "I have control over my actions/thoughts." This gets into all sorts of interesting corners, such as:
And so on. There are some interesting discussions there at the edges, like at what point AI gains free will. That can have very real moral implications (i.e. when does AI get personhood?), so it's not just idle chat.
Can your free will be restricted in any way? Someone in prison has less agency than you or I, if that means his free will is restricted then we have more free will than he does. Therefore it exists.
If you just start talking to some random person about it, then you're unlikely to get a high-quality conversation; because most of the stuff people will say about it is inane or obvious or obviously wrong, etc. But there are definitely interesting discussions and thoughts that can be had about it. I've had countless garbage conversations about, and a handful of good ones. Probably my favoutite take is from Daniel Dennett's book "Freedom Evolves". He is very careful to build up a strong picture of what is it that we're talking about and what the 'obvious' problems are, before then carefully and systematically showing those things aren't really problems with what we were talking about anyway. Before reading that book, I was hard line in the camp of "obviously free will doesn't exist; that's a scientific fact"; but after reading it... well, I'd now say "it depends exactly what you mean, but probably the free will you're talking about does exist.".
Why do we need to bother executing it then? Choice has no value if agency to exercise it is revoked at any stage.
Not executing it would also be predetermined. The only thing you can do is pretend to choose.
that thought affects your brain, and therefore the future! :D
But you didn't choose to have the thought did you?
Quick think of a city and then explain to me why you didn't pick Cairo
speaking of brains, mine just exploded!
btw the text before the spoiler doesn't show up on jerboa
if we don't, then the predetermined outcome won't happen!
How is it a choice if there is no other options?
/woosh
It's really not much of a whoosh when some people hold that position legitimately
When I get my ballot with an uncontested seat, I can still choose whether to check the box. Even though it doesn't impact the outcome at all, I still have the choice on whether to check the box. Even if I am completely restrained and my movements are forced, I still have the choice of whether to accept or resist that action, even if it's just a mental protest.
So I don't think there's ever a case where there are no other options, but there are plenty of situations where there are no other good options (e.g. cake or death), but that doesn't restrict your free will, it just restricts your options.
Free will exists because I can change my mind about liking or wanting something.
I want to rebuke you but you name is even more triggering. There is no linear chaos, you need non-linearities or discontinuities for chaos.
Glad I could be of use.
The concept behind linear chaos is that the chaos is bound at one point. The theoretical cone of influence can only move in one direction and widen at a set rate. Kind of a mashup of chaos over time.
Ah that's really cool. So maybe similar to how turbulence can form at one point while the preceding flow remains laminar?
Yeah, chaos crops up in linear systems sometimes in unexpected places.
There are a couple of scientific papers on it, and at least one textbook. Even at that I'm not sure it's a well-accepted theory, but the idea suits me.
One time I was talking about this with my friends. I said I believe it exists and they all laughed and said "particles have rules, you're made of particles." 🥺
I'm able to make smalltalk. I just don't enjoy it, so I avoid it when I can.
And my wife and I don't engage in smalltalk. We talk about what we actually care about. Seems to have worked fine for the past 24 years.
Pretty much.
I don't wake up and ask my wife, "How's the weather?" Or "Did you see that game last night?"
We talk about real shit. Like yesterday, we had a long conversation about what we would do with a tamed bear.
Well don't hold us in suspense!
We'd have to reorganize the living room and we'd name her Halle Beary.
Sounds good. As long as Halle gets lots of bear pets.
You would want to keep it outside, bear shit is not a good house smell. It is better than cougar, so I guess there is that.
Yes. Non-verbal communication and silence work too.
Can confirm, I hold our evenings together laying in bed next to each other reading different books or whatever in high esteem. We're not disfunctional, we're just introverted, though we like each other's company.
I thought I was in my messaging app when I read the first sentences and was confused. I thought I was included in the “our evenings” 😆
That sounds lovely and relatable. I let my affection show in glances etc too or a brief hand on the shoulder. Whatever feels authentic at the time.
It's not small talk if you love the other person
It certainly can be.
If I'm making smalltalk with my SO, it's because there's something more weighty I want to discuss, but I'm looking for a way to broach that topic in a better way. So regardless of how I feel about them, it's still an issue because it means I don't feel safe to attack the topic head-on.
That feels like a communication strategy tailored to your relationship rather than small talk. small talk, in my opinion, is meaningless banter without motive. This may be pedantic, but I just don't think I would classify that as smalltalk, since there's an objective and I'm theoretically engaged, I personally would have no issue with it.
It's when there's seemingly "no point" that I consider it difficult
We will sit in comfortable silence together.
we will make out in comfortable silence together
wet, sloppy make-out sounds
soft barking and meowing
😐 I was promised silence.
Actually this. One of the most meaningful relationships in my life is a woman who will sit in silence with me at the opposite end of the couch, some random nonsense on TV and we're both just on our phones sharing memes with eachother. You don't need to fill every moment of silence between people with words
Comfortable silence. Learn to appreciate it.
"We still never talk sometimes" - Swanson
Someone quoting him on the internet like this would go against his whole philosophy
Good.
remembers Pulp Fiction scene least that's what comfortable silence makes me think of, and yes I agree, it's nice when a couple people can sit down and not feel like they have to say anything.
30 years ago today - some cinemas are marking the anniversary with a showing.
Holy crap I had no idea it was an actual anniversary! I just think in pop culture bits (memes). Neat. I so remember the first time watching it in the early teens, Tarantino can sure write fun random dialogue also sure was fun seeing Travolta be awesome again at the time after the baby movies. Not that I didn't enjoy Look Who's Talking,at the time, but who remembers those after Pulp Fiction for Travolta?
My wife is a VERY quiet person. She doesn't say a lot but when she does it's because she actually has something to say. This made me nervous when we were first dating but I've learned to embrace it. Silence is OK. She definitely talks more than she used to but we don't have to talk all the time. Sometimes she just looks at me and smiles without saying anything and in those moments I know that I am loved.
She's thinking of how she'll dispose of the bodies. 😁
Drag doesn't like jokes about how people who socialise differently are serial killers.
Same! It isn't so much the small talk, but being stuck making small talk with a stranger or coworker/distant relation or whatever that you have no interest in speaking to.
This is why I hate getting haircuts. I don't have any personal relationship with the person cutting my hair. Maybe we'll find a common interest, but if I could just wear earbuds the whole time and not seem like an asshole, I would. But instead I just shave my head when my hair gets long enough to annoy me.
I am right there with you. I get haircuts very rarely because of this.
Which... is pretty much the definition of small talk. If I'm making small talk, it's because I don't want you to feel awkward with the silence, which means I don't know you well enough to know what you prefer.
Yeah, I agree. I'm more social than I was ~10 years ago but that's because I've found good people to surround myself with. Back then I would've said I hate small talk. I didn't hate small talk, I hated the people I was talking with.
Imagine going through a marriage like "how about that weather"
IIIIT'S LIKE RAAAAIIIIIIIIIN ON YA WEDDING DAYYYY
IT'S A FREE RIIIDE WHEN YOU'VE ALREADY PAID
Have you seen the weather, lately?
Lol - yeah, that would suck!
"And what is it with airline food?"
“Oh yes hurricanes every where”
Yeah, no wonder so many people get divorced...
I'd like to have similar interactions with my significant other to the ones I have with my cats. You know, things like siting on the couch together... saying silly things in even sillier voices... staring into each other's eyes while blinking slowly... yelling at her to get down from the cupboard...
If my partner can't handle silence, then there's something seriously wrong. We usually have something to do and if we don't we just cuddle up. There's no need for constant noise.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
The thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in!
Pretty sure being in a long term relationship means you’ve moved on from small talk a long time ago.
I don’t want to talk with my wife about the weather, we have more important shit to worry about unless we’re literally having to dodge a tornado.
Small talk is for strangers.
Yup. And if we don't have anything more important to talk about, we'll just cuddle. Silence is absolutely fine with people you're comfortable with.
Huh.
Wife and I talk ALL the time about anything and everything, be it the weather, how weather works, of free will exists, the kids, if kids exists, you name it...
Maybe you're both extroverts?
We're both introverts, so we're totally comfortable just sitting next to each other reading different books, or cuddling on a cold winter night. Sometimes we talk about random stuff, but quite often we're exhausted from dealing with other people but still want that proximity.
She's extroverted as hell, I'm introverted as hell. Put together though, we talk like there is no tomorrow
If you went outside and the weather was pleasant you'd never mention it to your wife? Never say anything like "have you been outside? It's so nice today!"
Genuine appreciation for the weather enough to declare it to those around you isn't small talk. Small talk is generic filler dialogue you do as a formality.
If you're being that reductive about the definition of small talk then I don't think small talk exists between couples who have known each other for a long time because you're just regular talking.
Or from what this post is even if people are missing it just asking how their day was.
It would be hell to come home to someone who only wanted to talk about the weather and how those jockstraps are doing.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
The one where they ran with the ball and they did the thing?
Oh no, they were about to do the thing, but then the opposition, in a shocking display of competence, stopped them from doing the thing and did the thing themselves!
This has been a major setback in the quest to gain possession of the large ornament typically given to the most competent group!
This is definitely taking on a strange planet vibe.
Their premium is they just walk it in
What if I told you: People who hate small talk only have meaningful relationships. It’s the shallow relationships they lack.
This. This exactly. I’m friends with few people, but I’m very good friends with them.
I think there's a misconception regarding what counts as small talk. "Bland conversation that has no real point but to escape silence" is small talk. Asking you how your day went because I care about you is not. "How's the weather?" is small talk. "How was your trip to the grocery?" is small talk. These are dumb things and, if your relationship can't bear the silence that would be interrupted because "The vegan sausages were on sale today", then it prolly doesn't need to exist.
I'm not entirely sure what counts as small talk. When I think of it, it's usually conversation between strangers or acquaintances where neither party knows the safe topics, the topics to be avoided, or even the general preferences of the other. It's all testing water stuff.
I think that's what people actually mean when they say they hate small talk. They hate the awkwardness of not yet knowing enough about their interlocutor to know they won't accidentally upset anyone. Or they don't have the skill to navigate that social space to avoid negative consequences. It can feel downright dangerous in some circumstances.
And that's tough. Because the socialites think it's a skill issue, which it often is. And unfortunately if you don't learn that skill growing up, the social consequences of being bad at small talk only get bigger and more dangerous, which prevents folks from being able to practice freely.
I dunno. Just my $.02 I guess.
It's funny cause to me it's always meant a third entirely different thing! To me small talk is just starting from a basic place to feel each other out a bit, bringing up mundane things and simple questions to find topics we could drill further into.
"How was your day" to a partner would be small talk, even though I care about what they're saying - I'm just asking so they can bring up something to talk about. "Weather's been shit lately" to a stranger is small talk, but the ensuing story about how they had to rush to work late in the rain would not be.
Given it means three different things to three random people, it's almost like "small talk" actually covers a broad set of social purposes and people who "aren't into it" might actually be missing a lot 😝
I think I actually agree with you overall.
My comment above was more trying to express what I think "small talk" means to the people who always complain about small talk, maybe. Unsure. Slightly elevated atm.
This is how I feel as well. Small talk at it's best is a way to transition into more detailed topics without plunging into them headfirst.
With friends and partners, I think small talk like "How was your day?" Provide a jumping off point for what they want to talk about or, in the worst case, will result in them not wanting to talk. If someone had a terrible day and is exhausted, it doesn't help to start a conversation about the meaning of life when they probably just want to relax.
I don't disagree with you at all, but the screenie was of a message addressing communication between people who are supposedly in an intimate conversation. One should hope that their conversations can be more substantive, personal, and easy-going in a romantic relationship.
Some ability to break ice with strangers using brief small talk is useful as a starting point for conversation, but if you truly know me, say what you need to say or enjoy the ASMR of my presence.
Eh, I just went into a field largely dominated by introverts, which seems to have largely solved the problem.
I'm reasonably "good" at smalltalk, but I actively avoid situations where I need to use that skill.
Yup. I ask my SO how they slept because I know they tend to go to bed late and I want to know if I should make time for them to take a nap or something.
We only talk about the weather when we're deciding on plans for the day (e.g. picnic or dine in today?).
If you're talking just to talk, you've already lost.
Remind me never to get into a sustained meaningful relationship then.
There's someone out there that would love talking about that stuff with you if you haven't already found them just so you know! ❤️
Everyone's got a person with a similar wave length as long as they don't settle before then!
That doesn't mean they will ever meet though... 😅
Not the OP, but I seem to share at least some form of his experience and I actually think this "song" does a really good job of summarizing how I feel about it.
https://youtu.be/o9kbcGfX35M
I am as sure there is someone out there for me as I am of anything else I have a high degree of confidence in. On the matter of whether we will ever meet or not though, that I can't say. Maybe the world is too large and time is too great. In the grand scheme of things we will find out soon enough.
Well if they settle before then, they'll for sure never meet.
Of course, though unfortunately the decision is not a binary one. If a person spends their whole life searching and not finding, it could be that putting the same amount of time and energy into something else would have resulted in a more fulfilling life. There are shades of gray with this too since it's not one or the other. Like most things it's all about balance.
Well said
Met a few people like that, can literally talk to them for hours without getting bored
So far all of those people are either dudes or taken though lol
I'm not sure about that. I think small talk serves occasions where you might want to keep it polite as deeper topics tend to become emotionally loaded disputes.
For example, going to a bubble tea shop. Usually, you don't want to discuss the meaning of life with the shop keeper, but it may be a nice gesture to talk a bit about the small things in life. Small talk is a good way to share a pleasant conversation and appreciate each other.
Furthermore, small talk can serve as an opener to deeper topics if the occasion arises and everyone seems to be in the mood for such deeper topics.
Anyway, my wife and I are friends with the shop keeper now and we've talked about the weather, religions, vacations and how to raise children.
Oh my god, there's fuckery on the internet?! I'm out of the loop on the tile patterns guy. What happened?
Ok what is this melodramatic book about black mold? Any other fungus books you can recommend?
Troubled Blood by JK Rowling
Lmao the black mold is taking over, she's writing books about it now
Small talk by definition is useless drivel. I don’t build relationships on that…
You can talk about ideas on what to do in the bedroom or kitchen instead of the weather. My girlfriend and I talk about the nature of the universe and consciousness quite often.
I dont know how to make small talk so i just learned to make really good goat noises
You need to change your name to just_an_average_goat
I'd like to be your friend.
My inability to carry even a basic conversation is just one of many reasons I have no plan to be in any kind of relationship, sustained or not, meaningful or not
I always took it as an early red flag that the person is way too intense and stressful to be around if every conversation has to be a do or die dynamic.
It's not that it has to be that exciting. Just don't talk endlessly about shit that doesn't matter. You bought a new kind of mustard, I don't need a 20 minute explanation on why. To me, someone who can't exist without noise, or making noise is a red flag. That being said, early on in the relationship is different because you're still trying to get to know them.
I'm sorry that's a red flag. Some of us honestly just want to share what excites us with the person(s) who we are excited to be around.
I agree. I think they're looking at this wrong or maybe just picked a poor example of what they're trying to explain. Talking about hobbies and things that excite you isn't a red flag at all.
That's it. Hobbies? Interesting musings? Sure. Even how their day was. But nobody is excited enough about mustard to hear about it for that long. Or people who "think out loud" they say something and I'm like "what?" They respond "just thinking out loud" or "talking to the dog" and then get mad at me for not listening to the important stuff because I simply don't have the time or mental capacity to filter that.
I think this is different.
The issue is people who can't read the room. People just blabbing and talking AT someone. That's not even small talk. That's just holding someone verbally hostage.
Yes! Thank you! That was a better way to word it.
Some people are, but more importantly it's about sharing your conversation partner's excitement because you care about them, not the mustard.
(Also, life's more fun when you let yourself be excited by the mundane. We all die some day.)
Right, but like I pointed out several times, they're not any more excited about the mustard than I am. They just like hearing themselves talk. And it wasn't about trying the new one, it was just 20 minutes about why the mustard she used to get wasnt good enough anymore. Like 20 minutes of mustard bashing just to say "I thought I'd like to try a new one".
Obviously they were if they were talking about it for 20 minutes.
Small talk imo is those "feeler" questions. Hows the weather? See that thing on TV? How was traffic? You having the case of the Mondays?
It's just noise to break the silence. I don't have patience for it. Speak your intentions.
You wanna talk about your train collection? Do it. That's not small talk, that's a topic.
"I had the worse weekend. Can I tell you about it?" Straight to the point with their Intention.
"Did you know there's a New Mustard based on ancient seeds found in Mongolia?" Real direct intention.
Yup. If my SO and I don't have anything more urgent to say, we generally talk about upcoming plans, like next year's vacations, shopping lists, etc. We almost never talk about the weather unless we're planning to be out in it.
Been together >10 years, small talk is pretty rare and largely reserved for entertaining guests.
I think you're viewing this wrong. If my friend is a foodie and really excited about their new mustard I'd want to hear them be excited about it and know why they like it.
Not a foodie. A talker.
As a person who doesn't really like to talk to most people and believe silence is fine... Let us have this do or die conversation.
Then return back to where you came from.
I was here first so no, I’m not going away or to ‘where I cam from’. Especially considering You’re the one who invited yourself here. You seem pretty desperate to have interaction with someone who is fine with small talk. I would have thought you’d catch that drift and go back to where you came.. I even left the warning there for you to avoid. I wasn’t exactly hiding it. Small talk isn’t going away. But you can choose to avoid it or cry about it more, fragility.
Uh wut you took this really personally. It was a comment.
You okay?
The only people in real life i have met who have ever complained about small talk were in the context of "i do not care enough about [the people around me] to pay attention to anything [they] say not directly relevant to me/my hyperfocus" and i just realize they're the "everyone else is an npc" crowd and let them be sulky all the time and hate every social thing they have to do, and I'll have a fine time chatting with the cashier about her day! These are always the same people who say everyone else is boring, not that they have given anyone the time of day.
Tbh if they see others like that im happy to not give them my time and show interest in them either. All social is give and take on every level and those people are always takers. We're where we are now because of people who can't bother to care about the lives of others.
personally im a firm believer in the shut the fuck up and be quiet camp.
Who cares if you talk. If you have something to talk about, talk about it, if not, don't it's that simple.
I've seen women like that on dating apps. Claim to hate small talk, include in their bio that if you just open with "hi" they'll unmatch you, and then when you put some thought into actually writing a response, ask a leading question about their interests or what they wrote in their profile, they unmatch you anyway.
#thisiswhyyouresingle
How did everyone take this post to mean that you should only do small talk with your partner and not have deeper conversations?
I think this was written by someone who isn't comfortable with extended periods of silence with their partner.
My wife and I barely speak or communicate nonverbally for hours sometimes, then talk at great length other times. We always give each other an opportunity to talk about our day or whatever else is important, but we don't talk about trivial things simply for the sake of talking. We're comfortable with silence.
Idk I took it more to mean "wow I don't want to start a deep, thoughtful conversation the moment I get home from work let me relax for a minute" while at the same time still wanting to talk to your partner. But I guess it's up to reader interpretation and I do seem to be in the minority here.
You're not alone. I think people might be projecting their own reasons for liking/disliking smalltalk into this tweet.
I just feel like a lot of people here are defining "small talk" as "a conversation that I don't want to have" rather than any meaningful definition.
I would consider stepping outside in the morning with your partner and stating "oh wow it's such a nice day today" to be small talk. It's a conversation without an end goal, sure, but I don't think it's as worthless as people are making it out to be.
Yeah, like, obviously if you define it as something like that you don't like that, but I don't think that's how everyone defines it.
My bet is, for the same reason that the post assumes that people who hate smalltalk can't have a meaningful relationship
And that reason would be?
Yes
There's likely at least a small correlation between people who dislike small talk and being at least somewhat socially inept.
(This doesn't mean I'm saying everyone who dislikes small talk is socially inept. That's not how correlations work.)
I would say it is likely complex. One might also assume for similar simplistic reasons that small talk is primarily used by people who get insecure if someone else isn't constantly acknowledging their presence by talking with them about something.
Likely neither of those simplistic explanations do the full complexity of social dynamics justice.
Ha, jokes on them! I haven't been in a relationship in about a decade and I don't see that ever changing so I don't need small talk!
...wait. Who's the joke on?
:P
Someone once pointed out to me that what I consider small talk might be someone else's important.
Sure it might seem like gossip or chat about the weather just for the sake of talking but it can equally be someone trying to say that they are lonely and need reassurance.
I think about that a lot and I've become a lot more tolerant. Besides, you can segue into some pretty big chat from such humble starts.
They seem ritualistic social interactions. Like some bird's courtship dance except there's no relationships interest. So it's just a burden that I didn't want to participate in unless I have a genuine friendship.
How do people who don't like the color chartreuse expect to color things? Chartreuse is my favorite color!
This poor individual has never been in a lasting relationship.
If you can’t talk, in full, with your partner such that you somehow need small talk, that’s not a relationship, it’s a one night stand that happens to last for 3 months to a year.
As other people in this thread have said, it's usually more about the person than it is the topic. I'm happy to hear my wife talk about the weather tomorrow but if the guy behind me in line at the store does it I'm answering in grunts and annoyed expressions.
Sure, but it also has more depth than the guy at the checkout. It ties into the garden, the potential outdoor activities, possibly premade plans, possible seasonal house prep (stow the hoses, shut off the outside water, bleed the lines.). And all manor of things tied to your life together. Thus it’s not really small talk.
but seriously free will does not exist.
But I saw him jump over those rocks in the movie, Free Willy has to exist!
Is there any meaningful difference if it's an illusion? We experience existence as if it does exist.
I think it makes the most difference in how we treat crime and punishment. If you accept that there is no free will, then the concept of punitive sentences is unhelpful at best, or barbaric at worst.
and on the flip side, billionaires who win the cosmic lottery are nothing special. everything was preordained for them.
Imagine having a relationship based on talking about the weather today. I talk about things I enjoy talking about. If I don't have anything to say then quiet is peaceful. 😊
Talking philosophy is small talk.
Person: Hey you having a good morning?
Me: Depends... What does it mean to be a good person?
Define "good".
“You see? We ended up at a semantic argument again!”
Have we not always had the conversation?
When family/friends asks you how you are doing but don't listen to the answer that really sucks. Or they hear what they expect and make a comment that clearly means they weren't listening. Personally I found that too much of small talk is someone saying or asking something with no intention of listening. Maybe they think they are being polite or some social obligations to talk but I hate it. If I ask "How you doing?" "How's work?" I'm going to listen to your answer. If I make a comment about the weather and you comment back I will listen.
Quantum physics, theoretical alien biology, the alleged obsolescence of battleships... Do these all count as small talk? Because this is the stuff my wife talks about with me.
Alleged? Oh man, let me just get out my modern day naval warfare mini figs, and the modern rulebook (do you like 2e or 3e?), and let's see your battleships take on my missile destroyers! It is ON, Farragut!
That's the neat part--I don't!
I'm in this picture and my SO doesn't like it.
I mean, yeah? That's always been my relationships, I've only ever had pretty long-term ones.
Do y'all literally talk to your significant others about the goddamn weather or food every day?
Idk about y'all but in my current relationship I'd usually start with an in-depth analysis of some latest media I consumed or a geopolitical development, we'll be briefly reflecting upon developments in Palestine or Ukraine or UK politics or the latest on the US election while we share a couple Red Bulls and try new Elfbar flavours.
Sometimes this descends into a hearty debate on economics like whether increased taxation can raise the value of currency through demand creation (technically but it's not an effective measure), however eventually i will be pivoting into a technology I had learned about or historical context for some such, perhaps reflecting upon my cybersec exploits, relating to my independent study or my dayjob.
At some point she'd relate it to a material or technique she's been studying for her masters in material engineering, she'd remark on disliking inorganic chemistry, and we'd get into in-jokes, (latest being about Aerobiz 2000 for the Sega Genesis and my interest in the inner workings of an A320 and less than stellar business acumen) which will inevitably make us watch a video essay on YT or play a light game together like Life is Strange or HOI4 or even just listen to some music, later we'd order some Domino's Pizza and have some intimate times, a couple of nice sweet Barefoot wines and maybe a bit of Kinder Chocolate (not Bueno) for dessert later, we're asleep.
Sometimes we get nostalgic and talk about what life was like before we met on Tinder or talk about our future dreams, plans and aspirations.
I think smalltalk is okay when you're in a work meeting and you just want the coworkers to go away as soon as possible and let you get back to sleep, but I'd never date someone who is so socially inept that they would resort to smalltalk.
And thus a healthy relationship wherein the individuals are mutually becoming smarter, with better norms, instead of increasing the normalcy of less intelligencegrowing conversation as their minds and norms deteriorate from it. Weird how it's the rarity.
I hope it's not, and this is just twitter being twitter but you never know I suppose. Not worth making assumptions over one tweet, least of all about anything in the real world, nothing further from reality than the average tweeter.
Ehm. Yes?
That's exactly how my wife and I do things.
I tell jokes. I don't really do small talk. But, yes most conversations are deeply personal and deeply philosophical. I have lots of great friends, a lovely wife, a good job and fantastic kids. So yes, you can do just fine with almost no small talk. Become yourself, not what some unimaginative poster on the internet desperate for validation of their opinions thinks people should or shouldn't become.
good job
Personally I think that small talk is also regional. Some places small talk might be discouraged at a store while other places it might be encouraged. The same might be for the subway, a restaurant, the bathroom, etc, depending on the country or culture it may be totally ok or exceptionally discouraged.
I really fucking hope there isn't a place on earth where smalltalk on public transit is encouraged.
I love how the guy casually mentions the bathroom but public transport is the one that got you lmao
I once went to a public swimming pool in Austria, half the pool was for nudists and the other half was for clothed persons. The restroom for clothed people was very long, but the restroom for nudists was busy but short. I ended up going to the nudist restroom and a 50+ year old naked guy walked up and started talking to me while using a pissoir. Basically he was asking why I was dressed at the nudist portion of the pool, I told him the line was shorter, he laughed, and went about his pissing.
I don't know about encouraged, but it's definitely not uncommon in some places. Small talk doesn't have to be a lot of communication either, it can be as little as basic platitudes. It's things like sitting at the bar in a pub and the guy beside you points out an amazing play on the television or it could be the person on the bus pointing out something crazy they see out the window.
Some people view certain talk as smalltalk but im always up to know about the weather or bad traffic or anything I can avoid or indulge in if I can.
Breathe, son.
Honestly, I always engage in small talk. You can hate it but I see you on a regular basis and I'm always attempting to make a connection, one day we will connect.
Is that a threat? Oo Because that kind of sound like a threat
It's a promise
The weird shit in my head is not suitable for public utterance. I can give you engaging statements or appropriate statements, but one statement that is both requires far more effort.
Small talk with strangers, acquaintances, neighbors is draining even when I like those people. Those closest to me do not require appropriate statements, so with them it never feels like small talk.
Absofuckinglutely. This is what I do, and what she does, though our methods of exploration vary.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it looks like for me
Plan...?
I wish I knew why small talk is important and why the example in the post is a problem. It would be helpful if someone could explain it.
If you date someone for 2+ years, at that point, you know what their opinions are on all meaningful topics. All there is left to discuss is small talk: how's your day, did you like the TV show, etc.
Unless your both happy sitting in silence, you'll probably drift apart.
Edit: I think the issue a lot of people here have is not small talk itself, its small talk with strangers. Asking a loved one about their day is small talk, but that doesn't diminish its value.
I've been married for 7 years. I do ask my wife how her day was, but that is because I actually care. How can people do this with strangers? Is it just assumed everyone is asking everyone else how their day was even if they don't actually care?
Tbh, I don't know, I don't like chatting to strangers either, but when a stranger asks how my day is, or how the weather is, I assume they don't really care. Which means I can lie to them to wrap it up if I want. The level of care is probably proportional to the closeness? Small talk with partner == important, care a lot, small talk with neighbour == less important, less care, small talk with stranger == not important, no care?
I also care about the "how was your day" convo with my partner, but I consider it small talk as there is usually nothing critically important about it. Its not gonna result in a major financial or life decision 99% of the time.
I love small talk. It's just noises that communicate emotion or very basic information, and it has a script!
I think no matter what we do most of the things are outoff our control
If you can question free will, you have free will.
I'm a naturalistic determinist, I literally can't not question free will
Or were you predestined to question it?
Yes, I'm aware of how people like to take science and jump to conclusions that kinda sound like they fit with the science, but they do not actually. This is called pseudoscience
I'm not arguing for either determinism or non-deterministism here, but let me ask you this:
If every action has a cause, and every action has a subsequent reaction, and all these chains of events follow predictable rules, what is the factor of "randomness" that allows for free will to exist?
Genuinely curious to hear your opinion seeing your stance on this is very strong.
Just adding to this: any modern arguments using the probabilistic nature of quantum phenomena to fight determinism are wrong. Einstein made a theory called 'hidden variable theory' saying there were causes we couldn't see (duh). A guy named Bell 'proved it wrong' by arguing against something einstein said in it about data being in multiple places simultaneously. Had nothing to do with whether hidden variables exist. But the headlines were 'hidden variable theory proved wrong' implying to the public that there are somehow no causes of things below a certain level and that an illogical foundation of 'probability' somehow underlies everything. Einstein once said it was silly to think an electron is in an undetermined state until measured when he can see it's path in a cloud chamber. It clearly is a thing constantly existing.
With the errors of the foundational days of quantum physics out of the way, how can one argue against a thought or action having causes preceding it? Even if we are in woowoo land where everyone is spirits with minds existing separately in different worlds, there are still variables determining what those minds think. Only seeming alternative explanation so far is the faulty quantum probability field... which is wrong.
Bell did prove mathematically that a local hidden variables theory is unable to explain observed quantum mechanics. This doesn't rule out nonlocal hidden variable theories, but a) that is called superdeterminism, and b) that would mean that there would be faster-than-light interactions, and that is in many ways weirder.
I disagree. "Einstein once said it was silly to think an electron is in an undetermined state until measured when he can see it’s path in a cloud chamber." I am definitely of the einstein view and not the mainstream quantum scientist view. According to me, things, like einstein's electron DO have actual states when not 'observed' and do not need to 'be observed and collapse in to a form at that time'. At every point in it's path thru that cloud chamber the electron has it's form WHICH IS SUPEROBVIOUS TO SEE even tho the quantum math has no idea what to do about it and is like 'no does not fit in the math thus cannot exist'. In reality, the electron does not need to be measured to have it's form. Same with the 'entangled' particles Bell uses. Just because it is measured later does not mean it did not have it's form while not measured ~which is common sense to me and blows up Bell's Theorem before even having to reach to exotic theories. Weird to me stuff like that is not common sense. But I personally think quantum physics went wrong waaaaaay at the start and is riddled with exotic theories based on good data but faulty definitions and conclusions (such as the doubleslit experiment being touted as 'a single photon being let thru' when it's a guy shining a very dim light for a month and taking a slow exposure pic. Shining light for 1 month = 1 Photon. Does not match common sense. Throws off future work. But is definitionwise accurate as quanta is 'a level of energy'). So meh. Disagree. Nice you know your stuff tho.
"You do not mention the path of the electron at all, Heisenberg. But yet when you look in a cloud chamber the electron's track can be observed quite directly." "Don't you think that it's strange to say that there is a path for the electron in the cloud chamber, but there is no path for the electron in the atom?" ~Einstein
Yeah weird it would then be pure probability with no causes when it's inside the atom because that's what matches the mathematical framework of Quantum Physics while when it's in a cloud chamber ITS EXACT LOCATION AS A DISTINCT OBJECT IS CLEARLY VISIBLE. So yeah I'm with reality instead of that mathematical framework and don't see any issue with the same concept of 'having a form' applying to entanglement ~which 100% blows up Bell's theorem before it gets to multilocation.
Bell's Theorem ---> 💥
Possibility of Hidden Variables ---> 👍
Well first off we are seeing more and more that there are quantum effects in the brain, and we don't know what they all do or what role if any they play in conciousness.. We just know quantum shit is random and hard to predict while only really affecting things on the smallest possible levels. Second some elements are hard to predict because two things are equally probable.
Like if I go to get Ice Cream and I really like strawberry, but they're out and I can only choose Vanilla or Chocolate, then it's a 50/50 and the only thing that decides which I choose is my own decision.
Some things simply cannot be measured.
How do you record a dream? How do you measure someone's luck?
why?
You need small talk to find the big talk.
Of course they dont say stuff like that.
Great thinkers have been telling us that free will is an illusion for decades.
I mean, that would be ridiculous......
Its me, they're talking about me aren't they?
Sorry, what i meant to say was, I think there's always at least two ways to go about things and, whatever side you fall on, you just have to follow your truth because, ultimately, you have to be true to yourself. I think thats all you can do really because, if you're not being true to yourself, then you're living a lie.
So, you've just got to do what you've got to do because, at the end of the day, it is what it is and that's not going to change anytime soon.
I've heard some people talking about not being able to sustain meaningful relationships. Well, I don't know much about that. But what I do know is that I enjoy the freedom of doing things my way and to just be me. If being against me not being me is wrong, then I don't think I want to want to be right.
Are you happy now? Is that what you wanted of is it still "too big" for you, John?
haha I just small talk to appease social standards. In my ideal reality, intelligent beings are creating and doing greater things themselves every day and viewing it like a wasted day if they have not. I could, right now, talk about my design decisions I'm coding in to this editor today and what some of the plans are for it as of now. I wouldn't talk about Why I'm focusing on the editor before the game because I've already been over that so there would be little gain for the ultimate quality of what I'm making in that conversation. And, with my ideal type of person, the conversation could easily drift in to what groundbreaking realms they are in too. It should be like this every day for an individual to be considered healthy. Comparatively, small talk is a waste meant to give vocalization options to beings fulfilling low to medium potential roles that cannot enter any realm of novelty themselves ~followers that cannot be waymakers. I know I say this in a realm of 90% people who are just fulfilling a low potential role while otherwise 'passing the time', just like the person in the post. So downvote me. You know it's true tho and it isn't the smalltalkers who are the next feynmans, einsteins, etc. Where do you aim for yourself? 'passing the time' 'smalltalk' level or higher?
💊
I have a meme answer to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn51xYvJhQI
I’m not going to be in a relationship with anyone who thinks “freewill” is a word.
Sounds like Germans are gonna be at an inherent disadvantage.