Spyke
nostupidquestions·No Stupid QuestionsbyEABOD25

Is it me or is everyone in hexbear insane?

I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don't actually think everyone there is insane. I don't care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It's not going to scare me to take this down

View original on lemm.ee

Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.

190
sh.itjust.works

If you've heard of Chapo Trap House that's them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.

141
fernreply
lemmy.autism.place

They were banned when reddit cracked down on any leftist thought, not because they were especially bad from what I saw.

-14
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

They were banned around the same time as The Donald because everyone was tired of the shit both groups were doing.

67
fernreply
lemmy.autism.place

I do remember that, and I remember them half-assing the Donald by just letting them make a new sub (or overrun conspiracy irrc)

52
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

Yeah they immediately took over Conspiracy and consolidated the hold on Conservative. Made me really sad as conspiracy used to have some incredible rabbit hole posts. Then one day it was just TD all over again.

44
gruereply
lemmy.world

IIRC, the fun conspiracists moved to r/high_strangeness or something like that.

13
imaqtpiereply
lemmy.myserv.one

That sub is trash also. I think the whole conspiracy theorist subculture has been taken over by the alt right and is highly politicized at this point.

14

The days of mild and fun conspiracy theories are over. The entire community has been fully consumed with qanon/maga/antisemitism insanity. Their minds are irrevocably broken.

It's a shame. I grew up on xfiles and loved all the lore around the culture.

4

I was afraid of that (which is why I phrased it less definitively than I could have). Good to know!

3

The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical "both sides" bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists

28
lemmy.ml

They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.

Sounds pretty cool to me.

25
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

While true there was a lot more behind the decision than that final post. They had been fighting with the admins for a long time.

-10
lemmy.ml

There actually isn't any such logic presented for the decision. Mostly just allusions to celebrating violence, the only examples of which were the anti-slavery posts I referenced.

14
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

Maybe because you didn't observe it happening. Reddit admins were busy as hell cleaning the place up. All kinds of rightwing subs like some of the incel gathering spots. Some for straight up Nazis like frenworld or whatever it was where they were using honk honk as code for heil Hitler. When the admins made site changes due to complaints about right wing subs, Chapo made the list because they engaged in similar activities with the main complaint being brigading other subs. Their mods refused to change to meet the new rules. The admins eventually removed some of the mods. They still refused to change afterward. Which eventually got them shut down.

-6

Maybe because you didn't observe it happening.

I did, actually. I made some of the John Brown posts lol.

Reddit admins were busy as hell cleaning the place up. All kinds of rightwing subs like some of the incel gathering spots. Some for straight up Nazis like frenworld or whatever it was where they were using honk honk as code for heil Hitler. When the admins made site changes due to complaints about right wing subs, Chapo made the list because they engaged in similar activities with the main complaint being brigading other subs.

Brigading is not an activity similar to supporting incels or Nazis.

I remember the subreddit mods sharing their attempts to communicate with admins on this, offering to make whatever changes would be needed, and getting stonewalled. The subreddit itself adopted a no-brigading policy and included it with an pinned automod comment on every post.

But this is neither here nor there because the ban announcement said nothing about brigading. Instead, they said it was about content violating their new anti-hate policy and a vague statement about mods not "reining" in users. Prior communications and the timeline suggested the only content violations were anti-slavery posts.

Their mods refused to change to meet the new rules.

How so?

The admins eventually removed some of the mods.

Which ones and why?

They still refused to change afterward

Such as?

The reality is that most of this was actually opaque.

5
lemmy.ml

evidence? I see people say this but from what I remember the mod team was repeatedly stonewalled by the admins, or at least that was their claims, and I don't think the admins ever disputed that

11
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

Hardly, the mods kept refusing to do anything about the brigading of other subs. To the point the admins stepped in and removed a couple of them. Then afterward the sub decided they'd rather go private than comply. At this point most of back and forth is wiped out because the sub is locked. But there was far more going on for a while than their claim that one post shut them down immediately. They had already been in trouble for a couple months.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/bp39gb/chapotraphouse_gets_a_call_from_the_admins/

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmfirtv1vndy21.png

2

I wasn't clear enough, what I meant wasn't that the admins literally never said anything to the mods, I meant they made it relatively unclear what exactly they needed to do to stop getting warnings and eventually getting banned. no conversation, just relatively vague commands from down high also, as you can see in the SRD thread it was never made clear if they were removed for anything besides the john brown posting. However, even this is more clear communication than I remembered so I'll admit fault on that at least.

funny thing I found browsing the thread is this comment about why chapo got banned, which mentions brigading, something people constantly accused/accuse hexbear users of doing:

...

The second aspect of this is that chapo is becoming so large that it is capable of effectively "brigading" threads without any direct co-ordination on the subreddit. By this I'm referring to stuff like the police dog situation, in which any meaningfully upvoted thread on /r/aww and other "cute" subreddits gets a shitload of "40%", "ACAB", and other anti-cop rhetoric. While screenshots of this often get posted to /r/chapotraphouse, the vast majority of the time this is AFTER the thread has already been "brigaded" by chapo users scrolling through /r/all or the specific "cute" subreddits. This behavior is not against the TOS, but it is incredibly annoying to /r/aww mods and therefore concerning to the admins, because the "cute" subreddits are the easiest to manage and please, and more importantly, the most advertiser friendly. When chapo users fuck that up, there's a problem.

...

sounds familiar doesn't it?

7

No, The Donald was encouraging political violence and was becoming a legal liability for Reddit to continue hosting. But they needed to ban a major left wing subreddit at the same time to do a "both sides bad" thing and preempt the fascist talking points about social media having a liberal bias.

12
lemmy.ml

The Donald had largely abandoned the sub well before it was banned though.

12
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

Largely because they moved to different subs.

The Chapo crew didn't want to calm down with all the threats of violence and other ridiculous antics. So they left completely.

-9

When the sub was put on probation, the post Reddit cited was justifying violence against slave owners. As far as I can tell, you just made up that they threatened Reddit admins.

26

Huffman has been a frequent attendee at Burning Man, the annual, clothing-optional festival in the Nevada desert, where artists mingle with moguls. He fell in love with one of its core principles, “radical self-reliance,” which he takes to mean “happy to help others, but not wanting to require others.” (Among survivalists, or “preppers,” as some call themselves, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, stands for “Foolishly Expecting Meaningful Aid.”) Huffman has calculated that, in the event of a disaster, he would seek out some form of community: “Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.”

Spez pretty openly fantasizes about owwning slaves

16
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.

As it's always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

Their shit isn't convenient or comfortable. It's not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.

edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.

-37
GBU_28reply
lemm.ee

Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin

63

Honestly what is with the comrade/them shit they do about? I thought it was ironic like they were making fun of neopronouns or they were the 4chan people who popularised them in the first place

6
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

There's much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it's a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn't extend to physical force as that's also a historically very well supported position.

It's much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.

-38
GBU_28reply
lemm.ee

If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he "loves the gays"

36
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It's his implementation of those idealistic principles that's unethical.

The rest of what you've said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they're all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.

-27
GBU_28reply
lemm.ee

🥱

Literally out here defending Stalin stans

21

Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn't fit the shallow narrative you chose.

-24
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

As it's always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.

F them and f you for defending them.

This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.

https://lemm.ee/post/4543536

Above screenshot is from said thread.

The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!

16
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

Perhaps now is the time.

No, Time for condoning class war and murder is never and nowhere.

Go back to hexbear, you poor, uneducated, lying, bolshevik piece of shit.

But thank you for showing anyone who may have not had an experience with you before what type of people you are.

One can always count on that, you morons just can't help yourself.

2
lemmy.world

Your portrayal of them just being made into regular peasants seems to me viewing the whole affair with more than rose colored glasses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]
Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals, or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts.

By most people's reckoning in most of planet earth they stole the lawfully earned property of kulaks and either murdered them or otherwise destroyed their lives. Treating them worse than most developed nations treat burglars and thieves.

If someone shot your grandpa and your uncle, send half your people to Siberia to die out there, and sent the other half to prison locally of course you would flee with whatever you could carry and of course you would at that point be an enemy of the regime that destroyed your life.

So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.

I don't understand your justification for what is ultimately pretty horrific treatment foisted on people ultimately just participating lawfully in society up until that point.

0
lemmy.world

America didn't go from legally sanctioning a behavior to murdering the people today who were behaving lawfully yesterday even if they were immoral fucks. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how normal societies run.

-2
lemmy.ml

You don't get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.

1

The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It's not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.

Would you say it's constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism

3

Yes, please read what the .ee admin says about where the bigoted users originate and the actions of the hexbear mods in response. It certainly speaks for itself.

-6
lemmy.ml

But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

I've never seen this - not just from that instance, but literally anywhere on the internet, even back in the forum or bb days. But I've been looking for something like that for years, and I'd be interested. Do you know of any specific examples of this happening?

11

The best example I've experienced online is hexbear's process to derive forum ruleset with respect to their minority of GLBTQ+. The consensus was that many understood and that those that did not would follow in faith, assuming that they would soon understand. The second best online example was the GME subreddits' cultural response to initial scaling. The consensus was that each should individually choose and the collective's purpose was to educate, this strengthening individual wisdom.

But, my guidance would be to first pursue such things in real life. A leftist's best work is almost always grassroots local.

7

Notable struggle sessions:

Pronouns End result: Transphobes outed themselves and were purged)

Veganism End result: Vegans who couldn't stop stoking the fire and anti-vegans who wouldn't stop trolling or using indigenous people as a shield were purged, CWs were required for meat, vegans generally chilled out

Stacking rocks End result: White guys using indigenous tribes they aren't a part of as a shield were heavily mocked)

Outdoor Cats End result: outdoor cats bad

AES countries End result: For each country, there are/have been significant issues, but nearly every western criticism is worthless for understanding them due to being false or lacking the historical context.

4
lemm.ee

I also haven't seen this but it seems to make fun of the authoritarian excesses in Mao's China (struggle session).

The Three Body Problem show features this, leading a character to go mad and wanting to destroy humanity.

The funny thing is that this post is sort of a struggle session, an attempt to build consensus against socialists.

-6

it's not really making fun of it, more just a tongue in cheek joke about large arguments

8
lemm.ee

Yeah they kept being able to back the most ridiculous claims and then suddenly I was like "oh no they were right all along" and got radicalized 🤷

3
Zipitydewreply
sh.itjust.works

That's the whole point of an echo chamber yes. You can say whatever you want without being challenged by other viewpoints and make anything seem plausible.

5
lemm.ee

but they are linking a lot of outside sources. That's what I mean by "backing their claims up", studies about covid, about the ukraine war, about Israel, it's not just someone making a claim and then everyone is nodding along.

What I am saying is they were able to completely upend the way I see the world and you just can't do that by claiming thengs and linking to some other claims you make.

0

Wait until you hear about Scientology! Not the criticism from haters but the really mindbending stuff they have figured out.

7

What you're not accounting for is how they curate who is allowed to post in the first place.

5
Kaboomreply
reddthat.com

It's surprisingly easy to backup horrible ideas, but that shouldn't be your only concern. You also need to think about the morals and what happened last time it was tried.

The ends do not justify the means. The means are the ends.

-6

The last time what was tried? This sounds like historical "knowledge" derived from memes.

6
lemmy.ml

i don't think they really helped with the financing of lemmy, although their coders did/do make many valuable contributions to lemmy's code base. out of curiosity, do you have an account on another instance? I'm surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

3
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

I don't think they really helped with the financing

All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must've been free.

I'm surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

Identity politics from .ml?

If you're surprised at such small acts of individual praxis, you'd be amazed at what we've accomplished in groups.

0
lemmy.ml

All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must’ve been free.

fair enough I just think of direct monetary donations or something when I see financing like that but looking at like that isn't incorrect

Identity politics from .ml?

I mean kinda? I normally expect people who hold sympathies towards hexbear to use an account on like lemm.ee so they don't have to use more than one account to browse everything they want to see

3
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

when I see financing like that but looking at like that isn't incorrect

None of the devs got paid. There are no other expenses.

I normally expect people who hold sympathies towards hexbear to use an account on like lemm.ee so they don't have to use more than one account to browse everything they want to see

You expect the convenient implementation of MLK's white moderate. But, my content should give no indication of that stereotype.

I'll answer your previous question: I've personal accounts on world, ee, ml, and hexbear. The fediverse doesn't limit viewing content from multiple accounts concurrently. One must only choose an account to post. The only obstacle to such a tool is a means to avoid burdening the fediverse with duplicate responses to content requests. We solved that problem in a few hours.

If you want actual insight communicated properly then you should ask in the correct venue. For example, I'd have no issue explaining in nuance on hexbear because the majority has a strong understanding or conversion of theory to praxis. I'm not even needed. Others would adequately explain on my behalf.

0
lemmy.ml

I think my comments have been too ambiguous then, I didn't mean for anything I've said to come across as hostile in any way, I apologize. I'm a lemmygrad user, made this account because I browse through .ml at work and been meaning to make one so i can comment while there.

5

I've perceived only good faith from your posts. I apologize if I've not demonstrated that in my responses. It's difficult to do here.

4
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

Hello, low effort neolib troll. Thanks for the opportunity to continue to speak truth.

There's a cultural similarity to what 4-chan was prior to the LOIC. But, they're definitely not tankies. Sincere expressions of authoritarian means are soundly defeated and usually result in permabans. The principle and practice is consistent for MAGA, neolibs, and other authoritarians.

-1
SirDerpyreply
lemmy.world

Definitely not a neolib

Language analysis of your post history says differently. If you're not a neolib troll then perhaps you should stop presenting as such.

-1

Did I fault your content or your presentation of it?

Nice strawman. You just can't help yourself.

0

Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.

91
startrek.website

They're getting there, but so far it's only a few users that I've noticed.

One guy seems to be following me around to attempt mockery.

They're very much getting to "everyone who isn't farther left than me is a right-wing nazi" mentality.

6
FundMECFSreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

They aren’t even really left. They are super authoritarian.

I blocked them since they spew Russian and Chinese propaganda points and take revisionist stances on Tianman square and deny the Uyghur Genocide.

14
muzzlereply
lemm.ee

I mostly agree with you, but that's the reason why I picked an instance that does not block them: sometimes it is good to see the world from a different point of view. And it's not like the other Lemmy instances are completely free of propaganda either.

2
FundMECFSreply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Yeah it is when you’re not affected by them I guess. But their rampant ableism and transphobia would have made me leave lemmy if there wasn’t a way to block.

2

One of the mods is an actual Russian troll. [email protected]

Pro-Russian mod who keeps pretending they're not.

"If those kids could read..." meme would be fitting lol

2

Many people playing "leftist" are this way, sadly. And , and as well, but my favorite example is "conservatives"... who despite both the name itself and the claim to want to return to "traditional" values, instead want to radically overthrow everything that has arisen for the past several hundreds of years.

It turns out that it is really, really, really hard to be truly honest with oneself, about whatever it is that we choose to believe.

-1
lemmy.ml

The term "authoritarian" is so fraught that under these circumstances it might as well just mean "opponent of the United States" or "organized at all".

The examples you have provided are quite absurd.

Tiananmen Square (which you misspelled) is indeed poorly understood in The West, including the historical conensus that there was no massacre in the square itself. It is, in fact, historical revisionism to suggest otherwise. In addition, Tiananmen Square is just a place, a very popular one to visit that has been the location for all kinda of events. In China, the events are called the June 4 Incident / events. Calling it "Tiananmen Square" is sometimes a sign that a person is not familiar with the history as they are using the common but misleading term that is virtually only used to forward the previously-mentioned historical revisionism to a Western audience that is in no way interested in understanding.

Re: Uyghurs, I would suggest that you read into this much more, as the topic is full of misinformation, think tanks with shady ties, fake universities, charlatans pretending to be experts, literal teenagers treated as satellite photography analysis experts, and really weird NGOs, including pro-Trump ones. One good topic to focus on is calling it a genocide at all and how that came to be the discourse. In particular, what The Newlines Institute is, why they were amplified by the US State Departmwnt, their rationale, and, of course, why none of that is taken seriously outside of a very specific political block. Following their members, funding, etc is actually a pretty interesting rabbit trail to follow. Bird's eye view, the rhetorical treatment of Uyghurs as the subject of genocide was more or less invented, and this is is why you naturally don't see math death, destruction, refugees, or forced migrations of the Uyghur population. This does not mean bad things haven't happened there nor that policies were not hamfisted, but just compare how China treated a series of sectarian knife attacks (education, jobs, vocational training, investment, banning extremist Salafist practices) to how the West treated and treats Muslims (invading and killing millions).

So, anyways, I hope that you can continue your education and engage with these realities in gold faith.

-2
wickreply
lemm.ee

Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don't get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it's often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.

#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn't address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors. Doesn't matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.

#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace. The CCP makes people disappear and they offer zero transparency into their judicial process.

You're quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning. Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn't even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".

10
lemmy.ml

Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don't get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it's often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.

I can see already how much of a good faith engagement this will be. Would you be surprised if people reacted negatively to your introduction?

#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn't address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors.

What I was doing was pointing out that the most common understanding is an absurdity and historically revisionist. There is plenty more that could be discussed if one wanted to, but the common understanding is a cartoonish falsehood based on memes and not any actual attempt to read and understand. The way that parent made their reference indicated that they shared this false understanding.

Doesn't matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.

What matters re: the point I made is that there is a conflict with the common mental image and suggests that perhaps a person should recognize when they do not really know something. It might even jostle a person to not reach for the next-worst type of sourcing and instead do a deep-dive that challenges themselves. Wouldn't want to get caught out like that again, right?

#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace.

This is the same illogical structue of the previous response. It sounds like what you would really like to say is that there is something related that you think is important so you would like to skip over what I said. Feel free to make another thread with these other points and I can respond to them there.

You're quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning.

Ad I said, the entire narrative shift is based on an absurd propaganda apparatus and not any evidence on the ground. The use of the big G word.

The fact that OP is repeating this again suggests a lack of investigation. And yet they are so dismissive! I would hope that they might become interested in doing some media criticism. Maybe ask a question. Sometimes people do this and only tell you until much later.

Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn't even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".

Now you are just making things up.

3
wickreply

All I want to hear from you is an admission that the CCP murdered protestors, and that they jail people without giving families or the international press any contact.

-1
feddit.nl

On behalf of my Uyghur friends who haven't spoken to their parents in years, because they were imprisoned for their children emigrating: fuck you. A really deep, heartfelt fuck you.

2
lemmy.ml

Please engage with what I said rather than leveling personal attacks.

0
lemmy.ml

Please, tell us more about your Uyghur friends and their imprisoned parents.

What’s it like to completely make stuff up and post it online pseudonymously?

-1
lemmy.ml

They didn't mention it so why would I address it? You don't seem particularly ready to have a good faith discussion, either.

2

oh noes the tankie is scwared thwat his narwatiwe of genocide deniwal is being exposed as stupid. now get blocked as i have to gamble gold in roblox flying skibidi toilet tycoon

-3
Valmondreply
lemmy.world

Found one guys!

Tianmen square test: Failed

Uyghur test: Failed

I love this litmus test so much lol.

-1
lemmy.ml

You saw them run over the guy in the square too, didn't you? Incredible.

4

Lol your copy pasted "answer" sounded like Donald Trump tried to wriggle out of a tough question.

You showed that you don't accept the Tianmen square massacre, nor the Uyghur massacre. What's next, denying the holocaust?

-2

There's at least one interesting fellow in this very thread sharing extremely predictable opinions.

I thought I was annoying when arguing. Still do, but I found someone worse. Doesn't make me feel better, because it seems I'm sharing a table with them.

1

everyone who isn't farther left than me is a right-wing nazi

If one's a strict authoritarian, thats a pretty sensible thing to say 🤷‍♂️

-12
lemm.ee

How are you blocking full instances? I’ve been playing wack-a-mole blocking communities. I’m using Voyager on iOS, if that matters.

3

Keep in mind that user-level instance blocks are not the same as instance-level defederations. AFAIK, it only blocks the communities. You'll still see comments and posts from that instance in other communities and that instance will still influence your feed with their votes.

It is better to go to an instance that defederates or to convince your current admin to defederate.

5
Valmondreply
lemmy.world

lemmy.blahaj.zone? Really?

I mean the other two are authorian apologist idiot instances but blahaj?

9

Nah, not yet at least, I’m just borrowing a Hexbear emoji. If you view the source on a comment using a non-unicode emoji, you can see that it’s actually just an embedded image, which you can then copy and paste to use in comments from any instance. It’s a little unwieldy, but if you know the name of the emoji you want to use it’s usually pretty easy to find what you are looking for.

4

Is it the trans memes one? If so, yea Im not interested and wanted them off my feed.

Is that a problem?

1
mander.xyz

Childish? Kinda. Insane? No.

There are three relevant things to say about hexbear.

1. It is not a serious instance. Or at least not completely serious; they're mostly there for memes, funposting, "I know that feel" etc.

So they're less like the meeting room of a communist party than like the bar where those communists hang out and drink beer, after the meeting is over.

I feel like this is often misinterpreted, as HB users say something that is mostly a taunt and others interpret as actual argumentation. And it also tends to attract younger users, who... well, behave like young people?

2. Even if not a serious instance, they're serious about their views. Your typical HB user is communist, antifa, vegan, anti-cop, and interprets things in a very specific way. They're rather transparent about it.

And, because of #1, they aren't really willing to spend their time entertaining anyone's counterpoints. It'll be interpreted as sealioning or similar.

3. Hexbear was already its own thing before federation. As such it developed social norms that often conflict with the norms typically found in the rest of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed etc.)

For example, even if Lemmy as a whole is prone to intrusive political discussions, HB users tend to do it far more. Because they're used to an environment where this is typically taken as OK.


When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users:

  • if you don't like what someone is saying (because it's idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
  • if you're consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
76

This is the most reasonable response.

A lot of people here have long since made up their mind about hexbear based both on repeated meta posting on the topic and possibly a bad experience or two with them on a topic they assumed was uncontested but is a landmine topic for communists of a particular bent

I've personally never had a bad experience with hexbears, possibly because I'm more empathetic to their perspective, but more likely because I know when it's time to disengage. There are users on lemmy who feel strongly about a certain topic that's abrasive to hexbear users and dig in their heels when jeered at (or maybe feel a personal responsibility to stand them down) and are usually the users here who have the most complaints, because the standard reaction from hexbear users is irreverence (both the users and the mods).

Unlike a lot of liberals coming from reddit, communists often don't have delusions about the neutrality of moderation and so they'll ban you on a whim if they think you're there to stir shit. They use the ban hammer judiciously even with users on their own instance. That's often the biggest complaint both with hexbear and with lemmy.ml.

25

Thank you for saying this in a more detailed way than I have been. This is exactly right. They built their own leftist haven and became a whole culture of their own, and then became federated. There is bound to be an initial clash, but honestly I think most of the people who hate on them never gave them a chance. All they saw were the shitposts and the in-jokes and you closed the door.

When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users

  • if you don't like what someone is saying (because it's idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.

  • if you're consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.

I see a lot of leftists (and leaning leftists), even on .world, who would be better off interacting with the users there (maybe blocking the shitposting comms). And outside of those most-seen comms (chapotraphouse and dunk_tank), there is genuine conversation and less shit talking and in-jokes. I believe, with more instances coming in that are federated with them (mine, .ml, and lem.ee? are a couple), some of the Hex-natives are understanding how to interact with curious left-leaning people with unintentionally wrong-headed ideas.

Downvote me all you want, I stand by Hexbear. o7

24
marcosreply
lemmy.world

antifa

Yeah, the famous antifa-tankers. Every single person I've ever seen that identifies as antifa was a tanker. Other people run away from that label.

-43
mander.xyz

I really hate that I need to point this out, because I feel like it will derail the discussion from Hexbear to fascism:

"Antifa" boils down to "people who actively oppose fascism", instead of either supporting it or sitting on their hands while doing jack shit.

43

Maybe you can clear this up then:

Why does everyone there unequivocally, wholeheartedly, unquestionably support Russia?

Russia has barely a trace of communism anymore and it is hard right oligarchy that fits almost every definition of fascism. Not to mention HEAVILY racist and anti-LGBTQ (I have multiple friends who were from Russia and they were the ones who originally told me that before I saw it for myself in Russia)

Yet the "antifa" hexbear will literally down vote you to hell and ban you if you say anything even slightly bad about Russia.

Also news@hexbear is 80% articles about the war with everyone citing Russian propaganda as absolute truth and every western media, every human rights group, etc... is completely lying about the war.

An interesting juxtaposition as they are in the same way pro Palestine and cite those human rights groups as telling the absolute truth in that case

0
Kecessareply
sh.itjust.works

But if you're anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you're still wrong...

-4

I highly recommend you give Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism and On Authority a read. At least On Authority, as it's a very short piece, but the two combined should give you a basic understanding of the historical and theoretical basis of why marxists defend the use of authority. I can understand where you are coming from, I was more than a little skeptical of authoritarianism when I was younger and still identified as an anarchist, but I think if you take the time to honestly engage with our position then you will at least understand why our stance is what it is, and how we are diametrically opposed to fascism, even if you don't agree with us.

18
mander.xyz

Plenty HB users are authoritarian. I disagree with them in this; however I don't think that both things cancel out, given the fascism is orders of magnitude worse than authoritarianism alone.

3

Yeah, because saying "cat shit is not as huge as elephant shit" is the same as saying "cat shit is not shit". /s

10
marcosreply
lemmy.world

Is there something in the name requiring people to support fascism if it wears the right color?

-16

Is there something in the name requiring people to support fascism if it wears the right color?

Do some people fighting fascism (aka antifa) go overboard? Yes, certainly; that's bound to happen with any movement, group, or cohort.

For example, someone might miss the target due to witch hunting, or adopt an "ends always justify means" mindset, or even conflate "non-suporter = enemy".

However. By implying that "antifa is fascism wearing a different colour", like you are doing, you're showing to not understand the obvious difference between

  • individuals following an ideology grounded on xenophobia, nationalism, racism, militarism, censorship, suppression of your individuality by force, more often than not sexism, homophobia and transphobia; and
  • individuals who don't want the shit above to transform their lives into living hells, including some willing to use force to fight back.

This conflation between both groups is not just immoral. It's worse - it stinks stupidity and similar filth from a distance. As such I'm not wasting my time further with you, go chew some grass.

18

Most antifa groups are anarchist collectives. So I'm not sure where you're seeing this, unless it's solely from people that are terminally online.

9

Lmao, they sure are insane. But if you listen closely they will tell you that sanity is a western psyop and you should enjoy the simple truths of life, like shitting in your own pants and bragging about it online.

73

Many of them, yes. They're among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.

Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.

48
lemmy.zip

You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.

47
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

Problem is that blocking the instance doesn't block these clowns' comments on other instances, you have to do a lot of manual blocking.

17

That would work for some - hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml - but not for others, like lemmy.ml and maybe Midwest.social. At some point users need to start blocking on their own.

-5
SorteKaninreply
feddit.dk

Lemm.ee basically doesn't defederate anything. You should probably go to an instance that defederates those instances.

2

While I would prefer defederation in this case, I found being on an instance ran by competent admin small price to pay.

1

That depends on your client. Connect for lemmy shows a placeholder for comments from blocked instances. You can click to show the comment anyway or just blissfully ignore the high probability rage bait.

I actually like that implementation, because the obnoxiousness of hexbear users is context dependent. On posts about gardening and nolawns I'll usually see what they have to say. On political posts, I usually regret reading their comments. So it's somewhat nice to opt-in to comments on a case by case basis.

1

Do you have any examples of this? Since world is defederated from that instance, I only end up visiting it when people like you come in and talk about how absolutely crazy it is over there, so occasionally I'll take a curious peek. This time I see... a post about Indigenous rights, a post criticizing capitalism, a post dunking on musk, a post about FOSS... when do I start seeing the crazy?

42
lemm.ee

idk, I've seen all the hype around hexbear users being obnoxious around Lemmy (including our own instance debating blocking the instance, followed by several of their members brigading the thread true to form)... but I've explored the communities on the instance itself and even subscribed to some of them like mutual aid, gaming etc, and those that I'm watching are actually just normal people doing normal things if more left than some other similar groups. In my experience it isn't "all" hexbear users, because that would be a dumb generalization.

There are some assholes on that instance to be sure. Show me one that this isn't true of. I'm glad our instance didn't block them because I now get to decide for myself. I block communities and/or users if they're a problem for me. I think that's a good way.

41

I’m glad your instance stayed federated because I’ve seen some good takes from lemm.ee users on hexbear threads! 🥰

12

Yeah I joined this instance not knowing much about any of them and lucked into a very good crew! I did read their defederation policy (not inclined to unless extreme situations) and that is why I signed up here and they've been true to that. I think it's healthy.

12
ryathalreply
sh.itjust.works

The brigading was really annoying though, but I never noticed anything else bad about them. I don't use 'all' very much and that is probably why.

4
bdonvrreply
thelemmy.club

They really don't "brigade" much except in threads on which HB is mentioned.

However they will pile on in threads that grab their attention, but I think that's more a result of them being a fairly large instance and their (mostly like-minded) users all finding popular threads organically in their feed.

7
lemm.ee

Yeah it was, but it was only a few individuals. It wasn't the entire population of the instance. I do sort by All quite a bit and honestly I don't see much of note from any one instance other than weird porn or niche meme communities that I block individually as needed. I just nuke communities and individuals that annoy me.

7

Obviously you can't lump them all into one category, but the majority of them seem to be willing to cause chaos on other instances for a laugh. Doesn't sit right with me, so i blocked them

39

To be clear, this is coming from you getting banned for being a debate-pervert after you claimed Putin invaded Ukraine to "reinstate the USSR" as a secret Commie and refused to take a pro-Palestinian stance, equating Palestinian resistance with a century of settler-colonial genocide.

I think it's a bit terminally online to run away to a defederated instance to lick your wounds, rather than reflect on why being a debatebro is unhealthy.

38

I don't mind communism. I do mind advocating for Russia, in a war where they are clearly the aggressor, and harassing then moving to harass the same left wing for not being as radical or as pro-russian and deluding themselves with false beliefs that they are alone and no one is left wing other than them

33

Not really. They have a lot of bits and in-jokes which are going to seem incomprehensible to anyone from the outside, but most of them are pretty chill if you engage in good faith. It's like a lot of tech communities; if you don't do your research and ask intelligent questions, you're likely to get told to RTFM.

31

"HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point"

Without taking any sides, saying some group is insane and then saying that them lashing back "proves your point" is beyond stupid.

Like, of course they will, what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?

We should stop with this kind of BS in any sort of debate. Groups will protect themselves, and will not get polite to those who throw slurs at them; that's natural, normal and speaks nothing about their average behavior.

This never proves any point and is nothing but a dirty rhetorical device aimed to shut your opposition up and make them seem irrelevant. This is not part of any possible healthy conversation.

Also, post is not a genuine question.

30

Damn it's nice to see the comments are surprisingly evenly split between hating on it and actually being reasonable. Quite a difference from when redditors first moved in here last year.

I guess the more people talk about it, the more people actually visit it for themselves and form their own opinions.

28

I was bullied for off Lemmy.One by the hexbear mods who sent hexbear users my way to harass me...

All for (while I'm still a raging communist) not being a pro authoritarian communist.

25

Last I checked there was an instance rule preventing the posting of pictures of cheese without a trigger warning.

24

I was going to block them and lemmygrad at first but decided not to and instead tried to understand what all these people were about.

Now I'm a communist, have a hammer and sickle, live in China, and my favorite color is red. Death to America comrades! Get fucked libs /s

Seriously though, they're not anymore insane than us. Maybe just a bunch of drunken commies at a bar who don't really bother to distance themselves from the subjects of a century of red scare propaganda. In any case, it's worth keeping an open mind and engaging in good faith.

Though as leftist as I personally am and have become in time, I'm not going to call anyone comrade or start using hammer and sickle imagery except in the context of history lol. Libs can still get fucked though.

23

Safe space for teens cos playing as communists, where they can be nasty to outsiders.

I like the politics, but it’s filled with truly obnoxious children try to out-communist each other

the philosopher Bertrand Russell warned of the dangers of communisms tendency to become a religious cult and he was right.

21
reddthat.com

Pretty much, yeah, they're insane. They're also a very good reminder to go outside and talk to people outside your echo chamber regularly

21

No need to delete posts here - it's okay to be wrong occasionally, and anyway the wording here was ambiguous, and I had the same take as you at first until the explanation was delivered separately.

You're good, it's all good.:-)

3
Kaboomreply
reddthat.com

I'm talking more about hexbear in particular. That's an echo chamber

-2

Hates stuff the west does.

Loves stuff China and Russia do.

It's the same stuff.

20
lemm.ee

Just wait until they start swarming in this thread, they will leave you with no doubts whatsoever. ;)

20

This community is in world which defederated from hexbear and grad a while ago so we should be safe from most of em.

13

It's not just you. Like many people that get sucked into cults, you don't want to directly engage with them. Just nicely encourage them to deprogram themselves, and focus on maturing and becoming an adult. They really don't like get called out like that, based on my interactions with them.

18
jlai.lu

Basic mental health config for a non tankist user of Lemmy is to block hexbear, lemmygrad and lemmy.ml instances first. Then, any user from there that you will see calling nazis anyone who don't think like them.
I almost left Lemmy thinking it was a tankist shithole before understanding the pattern.
Then it gets back to the average former-Reddit techie activist, which is still pretty left.

17
lemmy.ml

is tankist a translation of the french word for tankie or something? i've never seen anyone use "tankist" before

3
oce 🐆reply
jlai.lu

Just a mistake I made, from the "-ist" often used for politics.

4
jetreply
hackertalks.com

Yeah, I would love to see a user score on names (in addition to account age we have now):

How combative they are (i.e. referring to people as nazi's, hitler, philes, ists, etc)

How likely they are to downvote a post vs upvote

How positive they can be (i.e. saying nice things)

2
oce 🐆reply
jlai.lu

Everything is opened, so I guess someone could make an app for it. Downvotes is more complicated, it's not openly shared, I think you have to be an instance admin and be willing to find them in your instance database.

4

Downvotes are open, but yeah, not currently exposed to every client, but its possible :) Maybe a server can show a sentiment score for a user, i do know one lemmy fork actually does that already, but I forgot which one.

5

Write the tool, provide it as a web service given a username, and then it will exist! :-P

2
lemmy.world

Yes, Everyone. the bots, the human user, me, and even you. You can't escape it.

16
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Yeah but my insane is cheeky and fun. Their insane is cruel and tragic

21
snooggumsreply
midwest.social

Hey EABOD25, what’s the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?

9
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Insane!? You're talking about Insane right?

1
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

I normally search search by "all" when scrolling and I'll see one or two posts from there. I haven't really figured out all the technicals, but I see posts from all instances

7

Sure, but I meant you asked if everyone in hexbear is insane, and they included you and themselves in the hexbear server, I think?

Anyway, you can block users/communities/servers, still. Maybe that can improve your experience?

2

My experience is already great. There's nothing anyone can say to me to ruin my day

4

If you say something wrong about something they care about and you can't back it up, they're going to be rude to you.

14

HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Yeah, you can always count on them to brigade.

14

I will not define insanity or who is or isn't, but hexbear users' stances and opinions tend to be missing nuance as one often do when one is terminally online and mostly form opinions based on the reverberations of an echo chamber.

They do occasionally have a golden meme, though. But the amount of shit coming from there got too tiresome, and I could only look past so many genocide denials before I ended up blocking the entire instance.

13

Nope. They seem pretty sane and rational in comparison to places like Reddit, Lemmy.world, Twitter, 4chan, Facebook, etc.

9

The reason I moved to lemmy.cafe instance is because it's defederated from those tankie instances. I can't even see their comments anywhere.

8
discuss.online

Not all, but it's definitely not for everyone's tastes. Just block the instance and move on. Go to your user settings, blocks tab, scroll way down to instance, and put hexbear.net. You will still see posts from it and its users, but still that improves things immensely e.g. you won't see communities on it anymore and you won't receive notifications for when the people continue to respond to you weeks and weeks and weeks after some innocuous comment you made that they did not agree with hard enough and thus earned their undying ire.

I would rather in the future see such things be opt-in rather than opt-out... but then I don't run an instance and this is what we have now.

Also most instances already defederate from lemmygrad.ml for the same reasons, but not yours so if you do it for hexbear.net then you should probably do it for lemmygrad.ml too while you are at it.

And then eventually, even if months later, you will find yourself doing this again for Lemmy.ml, for vastly reduced but again still similar reasons. That one will cost you some good communities, but is more than worth the cost imho to entirely transform your experience on the Fediverse, to have blocked the big three. Also some people add Midwest.social but I haven't done that one yet. All of those call themselves "leftists" but more importantly somehow feel that their political beliefs entitle them to behave like jerks - not uniformly so but as you are seeing, definitely it's a noticeable pattern.

The motto of the Fediverse: to stay sane, block early, and block often. To which I will add: you cannot control the entire world, only yourself, i.e. if it drives you crazy to see such, then curate your experiences.

8
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Thanks for the info. Already took care of that. Kind of annoying and disappointing that people won't treat other people better

1

Kind of annoying and disappointing that people *won’t* treat other people better

There, ftfy.

But also, that's their right if that's how they want to be... I suppose. It's just that, again, I wish that it - like porn - were opt-in, or at least fucking labelled with a warning, rather than make each new Fedizen figure this out entirely on their own. Every single person that I've told about Lemmy comes back a week later with the same questions... did you know what all is on there? Places like Chapotraphouse are extremely special, but again, like porn, I'm not arguing that they should not exist, just that they be opt-in, possibly by labeling them. Not everyone wants to see random dicks in their All feed.

5

I blocked hex just days after finding out about lemmy and registering. Some super crazy shit going on there.

7

Heavily scratched liberal gets banned from hexbear for being a debate pervert and trying to start fights, immediately proceeds to call everyone there mentally ill

7

I love that without fail every single person in this thread defending hexbears is from ml with the same pronoun tag format every single hexbear seems to have

Almost like they're hexbear alts or something

7
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Just don't stare too long into the abyss lol

1
lemmy.world

Where are people seeing this hexbear and lemmygrad content? I use the Thunder client with a lemmy.world account. I don't have those instances blocked but never see anything from them. Is it because I created my account on lemmy.world?

4
lemmy.ml

Is it because I created my account on lemmy.world?

Correct. Lemmy.world's admin "pre-emptively defederated Hexbear as a last resort".

12

The majority of instances defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad. I think if you have an account on such an instance you'll never see anyone or anything from them (correct me if I'm wrong). If your own instance is not defederated from them, then you may see the odd hexbear or lemmygrad user or community, but since most instances have defederated from them, that also means that the communities hosted there won't have hexbear or lemmygrad users in them. Likewise, if you are not defederated from them, and find a community hosted by an instance that is also not defederated from them, you will almost certainly see troll comments from hexbear or lemmygrad. I hope that's somewhat clear.

6

lemmy.world preemptively defederated from hexbear before hexbear had even turned on the ability to federate. In the Lemmy.world defederation post they also said that defederation has a "last resort" lmao.

I think the LW admins think their users are stupid.

2
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

When you surf the site, do you surf by your subscribed?

1
lemmy.ca

I've never seen a single post or comment from hexbear, I didn't even block them maybe my instance maintainer did block them so I don't know lol, what did they do to get so much hate?

4
lemmy.ml

They get hate because they challenge the viewpoints of liberals who have never peeped outside their western media echo chambers. They would literally just be considered normal leftists outside the west, but thats like garlic to a vampire for lemmredditors.

If you ask people on .world or .ee, it's because they have positive views on China and Russia, who are responsible for all ills in the world.

1

They’re leftists. Like actual leftists, some of whom subscribe to the idea that capitalism can only be overcome through violence.

There’s a lot of “well if it’s our authoritarian it’s ok”

My real beef with them is the same as my beef with .Ml and Lemmygrad, little baby mods and admins that hit you with the instance wide ban for disagreeing with their opinions

More egregious is getting banned for pointing out the admins suck

4

I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.

There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it's hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.

3

Most of the Lemmy.World users and mods are actively advocating to vote for Genocide, so i understand that Hexbear is a culture shock.

0

I first was introduced to hex by a similar post, idk the community, and my first reaction was, "holy shit it, those people are toxic!” maybe it was a complaint about the dunktank. Since then, I've come to recognize how intelligent and sane they actually are.

Abuse begets abuse, and the cycle continues. I do hope my own instance hasn't defederated. I've learned so much, incrementally, and developed a particular fondness for some users. I do feel enriched for them and ml having educated me patiently and kindly. I see them as older siblings who are human, like me. In fact, I'd say there are some I adore. Not hero worship, because that sets is up for disappointment or cult of personality. Just a particular fondness.

-1
lemm.ee

They're not insane, they're just victims of tribal thinking like the rest of us. Very narrow worldview reinforced by the others around them, bashing outsiders, thinking "they" are smarter than everyone else. Mostly, they see themselves as good and everyone else as bad, which isn't very unique among humans either. I don't think hexbear is worse than anywhere else.

You're doing the same right now probably.

-2
Asafumreply
feddit.nl

Honestly my only issue with them is literally anyone who is not them is "an evil pro-genocide lib" (lib, liberal is like the biggest insult they can throw at you as it's essentially the definition of their opposition.) Doesn't exactly feel great to see an entire community see you as the absolute evil and everything that is wrong with the world just because you may not agree that an economy run by committee is the best way, or that an authoritarian "vanguard" is the right way to a better society.

If they're all about workers solidarity and community then they should try to see us if anything as simply "ignorant" not stupid, not willingly aiding genocide, just lacking information that they could help share. Instead a lot of them are just vicious. There are some like Cowbee that seem like good people who want to help others understand their views.

9
Asafumreply
feddit.nl

That's a phrase I live my life by to be honest lol

2

It is a good one. I mean, there are definitely situations where being not-nice is required, e.g. police dealing with a shooting spree in-progress that shows no sign of abating on its own, but as a whole, I do think society would progress much more smoothly if people were to live by that. (and by "that" I mean logic as a whole, of which this is only one tiny piece:-P)

1

This generalization does not hold. Sometimes vinegar is better at "catching" these "flies". For examples being nice to a fascist gives the impression that they are acceptable and have valuable opinions. If you treat them with the contempt they deserve, you more correctly communicate your sentiment and model it for others. This also applies to a person you are talking to directly. If you try to, for example, politely debate genocide as if it is not generally understood to be the worst and most serious crime to be avoided at all costs, you feed into the idea that is not so bad, it is a chip to be wagered just like any other political "compromise" when being "pragmatic". I have yet to see anyone win over to actually changing their mind and doing something about Gaza because someone validated their logic on supporting Biden buy I have seen people make a complete about-face when presented with the harsh realities.

More realistically, the people who are complacent are the majority in this space and do not like to feel challenged or guilty (even though they are wrong and complicit). Rather than become consistent by actually opposing genocide or otherwise becoming informed on the topics in question, they find an environment full of half-truth excuses that tells them they don't need to actually change what they are doing and can actually somehow the genociders without supporting genocide.

What they need is not honey. Honey is plentiful and they still do not drink it. But some vinegar may wake them up, give them a chance to self-criticize.

2

♥️

Doesn't exactly feel great to see an entire community see you as the absolute evil and everything that is wrong with the world just because you may not agree that an economy run by committee is the best way, or that an authoritarian "vanguard" is the right way to a better society.

There are many Anarchists on Hexbear, by the way.

Additionally, what is your conception of the Vanguard that leads you to call it "authoritarian?" The IWW is a vanguard, as is PSL. The role of the Vanguard is essentially to be the most knowledgeable and dedicated to proletarian liberation among the Workers, to help educate and organize.

1
OpenStarsreply
discuss.online

Genocide vs. harsh words are also similar in kind and differ "only" in degree... but that still makes them pretty different overall! Similarly, over-eating to become a little overweight, vs. being massively obese like 500+ lbs (226.8kg), is again a difference in degree though not in kind (perhaps? or arguably is there a threshold where...?). Another comparison could be Lemmy/Mbin(/Sublinks/Piefed/etc.) vs. Reddit: different in degree... but both are social networks so should we say not entirely in kind?

The average behavior of people experiencing hexbear from the outside - i.e. who did not choose it intentionally - is objectively much worse, compared to an instance such as lemm.ee. Again, in degree, even if not in kind. (you can literally measure the effect quantitatively, e.g. by counting the number of complaints lodged against it, such as this post; it may not be as hard a science as physics, but then again, other than physics, what is?)

5
Azzureply
lemm.ee

I agree. But is a statement like "everyone in hexbear is insane" helpful in any way at all in this situation? The only thing it serves is to further any divide and cause more hostility.

3

They’re not insane, they’re just victims of tribal thinking like the rest of us. Very narrow worldview reinforced by the others around them, bashing outsiders, thinking “they” are smarter than everyone else. Mostly, they see themselves as good and everyone else as bad, which isn’t very unique among humans either.

Absolutely yes. I should have clarified that I agree with your first several points:-). I only disagreed (somewhat strongly) with the last one. Definitely the "is everyone insane (except me ofc 🙃)?" is hyperbolic, and mostly venting, and I even treated it as being a silly / unserious wording, but also halfway serious in terms of seeking information and reassurance that the Fediverse is worth visiting, if someone is more careful where they tread.

Therefore, the OP is not doing the identical thing in reverse, imho, b/c OP is responding to the way that they were treated, which is necessarily not thought-out fully but rather a knee-jerk reaction. OP came to us for help in emotionally processing what(ever) happened to them, whereas people on hexbear.net continually act that way for years and years, plus actively resist any efforts to change (which OP hasn't even had the opportunity to do yet, this post being mere hours old), which seems to me more than enough time for them to have settled and made a conscientious, intentional decision as to how they want to live their lives. So again, yes OP may have done something of a similar nature, at least similar in kind, but the fact that the degree differs makes all the difference in the world. Maybe?

As for creating division and causing hostility, definitely users of Chapotraphouse have been known to do similarly... but if you want to respond that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, then I will preemptively agree.:-) Except that the Fediverse has in the past allowed no distinction between communities - TheDonald (if one existed here) would be presented to a (especially new) user in exactly the same manner as e.g. No Stupid Questions (technically I believe that 0.19.5 introduced the allowance for labelling a community by an instance owner, though I am aware of zero communities so far that have used this feature, and many instances have not even upgraded to it yet - at least mine has not yet, though I see that yours has and more are catching up as time passes, maybe even most of the major ones at this point? so maybe there are such labels all around and I am simply not seeing them, though reports such as OP's and lack of discussion about such makes me strongly doubt that). Except the former would be much more likely to ban you outright for asking a "stupid" question (in their eyes), since as we agree, they feel themselves to be the sole arbiters and conveyors of truth, and moreover, unlike you and I who are discussing this topic so politely (and even pleasantly?) here, are not open to any dissenting POVs (+ are much more likely to enact a full-on ban rather than mere post removal).

Fwiw, I liken it to porn. If someone wants that... then they should be allowed to have it - why should I try to block someone's access to a contentious conversation, or impinge upon freedom of speech in any way? On the other hand, when someone else's freedom to speak impinges upon MY freedom to not have to listen to such crap, especially when it blows up my inbox (for WEEKS and WEEKS and WEEKS after I stopped responding!!!), that's where I draw the line. That's literally not what "freedom" means - except in their eyes, where they feel that they should be free to ban outsiders, but not for outsiders to block them in return. Put another way: we control ourselves rather than spew our thoughts uncontrollably onto someone, but so many people on certain instances do the opposite, since their culture has taken root to actively applaud that behavior. And yet, except on instances that have already banned hexbear.net (& lemmygrad.ml, and imho lemmy.ml as well, except no major instances do the latter afaik), new users are constantly exposed to that porn style of "contentious content", which goes against Western standards of normal behavior, without any such warning messages. Thereby leading to posts such as OP's, who was shocked to see it. As so many have been before, and so many will continue to be, unless something is done about it.

So what I am getting at is that in large measure, what causes division and hostility is coming across such a thing unawares. If it were labelled, it would be different - e.g. if you clicked upon a post with an interesting title and a warning popped up "Warning: this community have chosen to voluntarily label itself as containing NSFW/NSFL "potentially contentious content", please read this [external statement] before replying to anyone in it." (and then had an option to not show again, when the user feels that they understand and don't need the warning anymore)

But when you are just scrolling your All feed, as a day- or week-1 Fedizen, and suddenly come upon such graphic/contentious content... it can be more than a little jarring. So it's not merely their particular style that is the problem, but rather (like porn) it is the infringement of that style upon the unaware users on the rest of the worldwide Fediverse.

I hope this further explanation was of interest to you:-).

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EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

I have to disagree with your last sentence. I do my best to treat people on the internet like I'm talking to them face-to-face. It's the least that people deserve.

2
Azzureply
lemm.ee

You can do these things while talking face-to-face with somebody.

Calling a whole bunch of different people with different opinions than you, that you don't all know, "insane", seems to me like you feel you are smarter/better than them.

6
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Would you insult and belittle people in person? That's what I'm referring to. You give them an opposing view and they go insane. I don't care if they have a different opinion. Their opinion doesn't impact my life. But if some of those people talked like that to people's faces, they'd probably get punched

2
Azzureply
lemm.ee

The times I went there with differing opinions I never got insulted. They think their views are right and (sometimes) mine wrong. They also shared their reasons and tried in their way to educate me. They have their own culture over there that is more rude/direct than normal, but it's certainly possible to speak normally to them.

5

They have an entire sub called "thedunktank" that is about sending targeted harassment to specific users.

2

Don't get me wrong. I spoke generally, but it's impossible for everyone there to be crappy

-1
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

Defending communist genocide wanabes with moral relativism makes me think you are neither smarter nor better than them.

Just because someone is in big group doesn't mean he is good person and deserves any kind of respect.

-4
Azzureply
lemm.ee

I think all people deserve respect by default. Only through someone's actions may the respect for them be rescinded. Calling a whole bunch of people something is just almost never correct and only furthers any already existing divide.

2

Yeah, no. For example once you join the Nazi party, you gave up your right to be given benefit of the doubt. I am not going to waste my time on a theory that maybe you are a good nazi.

Same goes for when you join hexbear.

2

Everyone does deserve to be treated with respect by default. Respect is earned, and is not the same thing.

Choosing to associate with certain groups is an action for which respect may be rescinded.

1
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

What crime did that asshole commit? Was he against communist genocide or something?

Also, why are you not proudly using your hexbear account in this thread, are you ashamed, comrade?

7
14th_cylonreply
lemm.ee

The fact that you think that thread full of putin propaganda speaks in defense of your side is hilarious.

5
lemm.ee

More the fact that they got detailed replies but their best counter in that whole thread where the two replies where they quickly google some shit and paste the first results and provided no thoughts of their own.

3
m_freply
midwest.social

Those replies are terrible. The one with all the news headlines is peak hexbear. "Ukraine isn't a utopia, therefore it's a dystopia". It's a classic example of black and white thinking, while they conveniently ignore all of the Zwastikas on the side they're cheering for.

3
lemm.ee

"Ukraine isn't a utopia, therefore it's a dystopia".

What?

More to the point, OPs replies were worse or non-existent. If you are going to bring up the ukraine war in a forum that is known to be on the other side of your argument you should have a better explanation than "Putin wants to revive the USSR" or at least something to back it up. Or at least engage the people trying to explain their viewpoints.

1

“Ukraine isn’t a utopia, therefore it’s a dystopia”.

That collection of news headlines are trying to imply "Ukraine isn't perfect, therefore Putin's invasion is justified because Ukraine is full Nazi and also the western media is trying to cover it up!". It's an immature view of the world, where something being imperfect means it's literally hitler. It's something you get past as you grow up, for the most part. I know some adult tankies IRL so it's not a given that people grow out of it, but each and every single one of them suffers from black and white thinking that negatively impacts their life in many ways.

Let's agree that Putin wanting to bring back the USSR is silly. I'm not really defending OP, but calling the responses in that thread "detailed replies" is... oof. They're detailed in the same way Time Cube is detailed. OP wandered into the pig sty and got muddy, but at least he's not one of the pigs wallowing in the mud.

0

Zwastikas

There's like a concerning amount of actual swastikas (among other charming symbols) on the guys carrying US weapons though

0

And here it is again, the nuanced thinkers with their thoughtful replies. What would we do without such enrichment? How would we survive?

Fuck off, moron.

-1
Codexreply
lemmy.world

Well, banned for having mild opinions on US politics and then getting defensive when someone called them a genocide enabler. Sounds like hexbear did them a favor. If only the right-wing loonies were so quick to ban people who disagreed with them instead of setting up a big slide to draw them further in.

7

You're looking at the lemmygrad ban where they got banned for saying that the opinions about US politics held by a person whos country is being exploited by the US don't matter.

4
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Lol. I didn't get banned from hexbear. Nice try though. Now run along with your bullshit

-7
lemmy.ml

They linked the hexbear modlog

1 hour ago

Banned [email protected]

from the community the_dunk_tank

reason: Go back to Reddit, debate pervert.

And apparantly that's like the 3rd time someone banned you from a community on hexbear for doing that shit

8
EABOD25reply
lemm.ee

Haha. And you decided to waste your mental energy to try and call me out. Two questions

  1. Do you feel better about yourself?

  2. What were the circumstances of the ban?

Edit: no response, so I guess I'll enlighten you (and anyone who is interested)

The first ban was because I said something along the line of "Can we stop trying to normalize the use of the word 'tard'"

The second ban was because I said "Putin had no reason to invade Ukraine"

And the third was along the lines of "I like having civil conversations with people with opposing views because it might give me info I didn't know about and I might do the same, and if you talk disrespectfully to me, I talk disrespectfully to them"

But I'm the asshole?

-5
lemm.ee

We are not some anti-communist echochamber and being exposed to differning viewpoints radicalizes some of us

7
lemm.ee

Just revelling in the fact that the first thing you do after your ban is running to the most lib instance looking for reassurance that it's the ebil tankies who are crazy

7

It's common sense there that Israel must be destroyed and they use pronouns like "comerade/them".

And most important: They silence everyone who does not agree.

They are sowjet fan boys and try to build such a hierarchical system online.

Just block them...

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