It's happening in Germany as well. Universities are banding together to negotiate better deals with publishers - some subscriptions haven't been renewed when the publishers weren't forthcoming. It's not a solution (that would be the wide establishment of independent, self organized/hosted Open Access journals - using Open Journal Systems for example) but it's a start.
It's in some ways worse than that. it's institutional corruption and collusion across all levels of power within institutions. Not having access to pear review, journals, the gravitas, the funding sources:it creates a monopoly of power for all players in the system where they aren't benefited by opening up access
I don't know about other fields, but we did do this for AI. It's all community-run, papers are freely available for everyone to read, and the cost of submission in a peer-reviewed venue is to review other papers. The publishers don't actually provide anything of value except name recognition and being "reputable", which they maintain through momentum.
There is a new journal I know of (TMLR) that's becoming a bit more popular in these circles, but I believe they rely solely on volunteers to review rather than asking those who submit papers.
Don't forget the university libraries. Yup, researchers are paid by the university, those researchers pay the publishers to place their articles, the peer reviewers are also paid by the university. And then the university has to shell out money to the publishers, so the articles can be accessed.
New textbooks have disappearing ink that only lasts, about one semester, until a month before finals, and then in that month they trigger dynamic pricing increases due to a stronger than typical demand...
vampire squid makes them sound cute, they are literally the scum of the earth: They are leeching billions from what is normally a tax funded sector and on the side heavily polarising publishing and access to science in favor of rich countries.
Yeah they are more like Humboldt squid. They live below most things, in the dark, and surface when it is dark. They will eat others, of their own kind, if they are injured, or otherwise inhibited, or because their group isn't finding adequate feeding fast enough.
I too want to open a business where both customers and suppliers pay me. Do you know any more gullible sectors? Academics are pretty extorted already it seems.
Reviewers and writers actually do get a stipend, but it's a token amount like 200 bucks a year. This industry is the most ass backward incentive structure we could possibly create, the only reason writers would provide articles to a journal is literally for the clout.
I've never gotten a stipend or heard of someone getting a stipend for publishing or reviewing manuscripts. The only thing I've been offered is access to the journal.
Depends on the journal I guess, my wife worked at multiple publishers and there's normally an insultingly small stipend for the editorial board members and writers
As much as I'm against parasitic practices, I wonder how the inevitable corruption of money would (further) skew research if academia was well paid for their papers.
We're not saying pay the authors a bunch, we're saying make the papers free to read. Or at least don't charge authors and readers both, while keeping all the money for yourself.
I quit a physics phd path just under a decade ago because my experimental results were turning up negative and the uni I was at pushed me to doctor my results so we would keep getting funded. I also wonder about this
I've only ever published in open access journals (partially because I've only got 3 papers out, but also out of preference) is it just prestige that makes people go with pay-to-view journals? or are there other factors?
Depends strongly on the community. Every sub discipline has its own standards of respectability. Publishing outside of those constraints can cause articles to be ignored.
that makes a lot of sense! I'm very grateful to be part of an academic community that seems to value open access, as well of part of a university that pays for access and submission to most of the journals I need to use
This isn't a meme, it's a crime
There are literally tens of thousands of people in academia who could build a transparent, open-source, non-profit publishing system of their own.
Why don't they?
There is a transitioning happening but progress churns slowly. I like to compare it to getting out of an abusive relationship.
https://sparcopen.org/our-work/big-deal-knowledge-base/unbundling-profiles/mit-libraries/
https://tagteam.harvard.edu/hubs/oatp/items
It's happening in Germany as well. Universities are banding together to negotiate better deals with publishers - some subscriptions haven't been renewed when the publishers weren't forthcoming. It's not a solution (that would be the wide establishment of independent, self organized/hosted Open Access journals - using Open Journal Systems for example) but it's a start.
https://deal-konsortium.de/en/
Corruption - at the highest level.
Well I don't know about "highest" level.
It's in some ways worse than that. it's institutional corruption and collusion across all levels of power within institutions. Not having access to pear review, journals, the gravitas, the funding sources:it creates a monopoly of power for all players in the system where they aren't benefited by opening up access
I don't know about other fields, but we did do this for AI. It's all community-run, papers are freely available for everyone to read, and the cost of submission in a peer-reviewed venue is to review other papers. The publishers don't actually provide anything of value except name recognition and being "reputable", which they maintain through momentum.
Oh, could you share some links?
Links to what?
Sorry, I might have misunderstood - I thought there would be some journals employing that "review to submit" system you mentioned.
Ah, yes. I just wasn't clear on whether you wanted to know more about the publication venues or about the value of publishers or something else.
In AI, we normally publish in conferences rather than journals. Some of the big ones are
There is a new journal I know of (TMLR) that's becoming a bit more popular in these circles, but I believe they rely solely on volunteers to review rather than asking those who submit papers.
Thanks, I will be looking into this!
Remember folks, if you pirate scientific papers you're stealing from the hard working......wait a minute....
You wouldn't download a car
I would, actually
I'd 3D print that shit so hard on my shitty little Ender.
Why stop at one?
Lol you wouldn't download knowledge.
FAKE NEWS
This should be in the negatives. We have to pay to get papers published in these traditional journals.
And sometimes open access costs money for the author too.
Don't forget the university libraries. Yup, researchers are paid by the university, those researchers pay the publishers to place their articles, the peer reviewers are also paid by the university. And then the university has to shell out money to the publishers, so the articles can be accessed.
Not necessarily. A lot are paid by external research grants.
I must admit what I wrote was simplified.
If you take into account that a lot of research grants are financed by tax money though...
and don't use Sci-hub people. I am warning ⚠️ you so you can avoid it 🫡
Thank you for the warning. I almost received free and convenient access to a large catalog of academic articles, and no one wants that.
these terrorists want to give free access to tax funded research, it is disgusting.
Annas Archives
Came here to post this. It's so evil, it even has ebooks meant for entertainment.
Never visit downmagaz either!
o7
dont ever use this, it has almost everything
Also Nexus Search Telegram bots
but wait...
where meme part ?
From Wikipedia's "internet meme" article.
It's a meme because it first makes you laugh, and then it makes you think.
Didn't you know? Screenshots of social media posts are memes now 🙃
[email protected] suffers from this but it's 1000% worse there.
New textbooks have disappearing ink that only lasts, about one semester, until a month before finals, and then in that month they trigger dynamic pricing increases due to a stronger than typical demand...
Don't give them ideas.
Don't give them ideas for free.
NGL if I was a college professor in this situation I'd be pirating my own work fuck these guys
Very frequently you can email the author of the paper and they will be super happy to send you a copy.
I do it all the time. Something something sci-hub. If you ask, the authors will almost always share a preprint.
Just like the Olympics. The companies are vampire squids.
That's unfair to both vampires and squids
vampire squid makes them sound cute, they are literally the scum of the earth: They are leeching billions from what is normally a tax funded sector and on the side heavily polarising publishing and access to science in favor of rich countries.
Yeah they are more like Humboldt squid. They live below most things, in the dark, and surface when it is dark. They will eat others, of their own kind, if they are injured, or otherwise inhibited, or because their group isn't finding adequate feeding fast enough.
I thought you were a Biologist and were going on an actual rant about actual vampire squids lol
no I just imagined a small squid with tiny fangs
Just here to say fuck Elsevier.
Or, publish to PLOS ONE, the open-access science journal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS_One
I mean, seriously, I would like to publish to one of these, but who has the money to do that?
I mean, if you consider how much a study costs to get to the point of publication, the publication costs are peanuts in comparison.
8|
Thanks, I did not know that fee was added.
There are many other open-access journals, for example these: https://freejournals.org/. But yes, open-access is the way.
Thank you for these extra options. Great link.
I have a stupid question but what are the costs of a journal like this? I mean, if they don't pay the researchers and the reviewers, what do they do?
Another one, Frontiers:
https://www.frontiersin.org/
A Creative-Commons mega-journal that I did not know about. Thanks!
I too want to open a business where both customers and suppliers pay me. Do you know any more gullible sectors? Academics are pretty extorted already it seems.
Real estate seems to be a popular place for seemingly unnecessary middlemen.
Reviewers and writers actually do get a stipend, but it's a token amount like 200 bucks a year. This industry is the most ass backward incentive structure we could possibly create, the only reason writers would provide articles to a journal is literally for the clout.
Really? I’ve reviewed and published a good chunk of papers and never received any financial compensation.
Well, you received a token amount of 0 bucks an eternity.
I've never gotten a stipend or heard of someone getting a stipend for publishing or reviewing manuscripts. The only thing I've been offered is access to the journal.
Depends on the journal I guess, my wife worked at multiple publishers and there's normally an insultingly small stipend for the editorial board members and writers
That's not an incentive, they're mocking you with money
They all got bought up by venture capitalists like a decade or more more ago, and this is the result.
They were already backward, but now they are backward, ruthless about cost cutting, and care about nothing but profits.
I've heard of some journals promising to pay their reviewers Amazon gift cards which they never end up sending out
And they wonder why...
TIL: In the PotC universe, The legs of the pier are
noclipunderwater.As much as I'm against parasitic practices, I wonder how the inevitable corruption of money would (further) skew research if academia was well paid for their papers.
We're not saying pay the authors a bunch, we're saying make the papers free to read. Or at least don't charge authors and readers both, while keeping all the money for yourself.
And I wonder how, not having the pressure to "succeed" research (to gain further grants), would increase the quality of said research.
I quit a physics phd path just under a decade ago because my experimental results were turning up negative and the uni I was at pushed me to doctor my results so we would keep getting funded. I also wonder about this
That seems like a very lucrative market to interrupt
Why are we looking at revenue? We don't know the operating costs. What are the profit margins?
According to Wikipedia, in 2022 Elsevier's revenue was 2.909 billion pounds and their net income was 2.021 billion pounds.
Not going to bother looking up the rest.
There's a much more accurate stat... and it's disgusting
Okay, but what are the profits? That's what actually matters here.
I've only ever published in open access journals (partially because I've only got 3 papers out, but also out of preference) is it just prestige that makes people go with pay-to-view journals? or are there other factors?
Depends strongly on the community. Every sub discipline has its own standards of respectability. Publishing outside of those constraints can cause articles to be ignored.
that makes a lot of sense! I'm very grateful to be part of an academic community that seems to value open access, as well of part of a university that pays for access and submission to most of the journals I need to use
I did get paid for reviewing for a Springer journal though. Next to nothing, but it's not zero.
That's money better spent on shutting down libraries.