They get around this by using a version of Lenin's definition of imperialism. Lenin characterised imperialism as, in very simple terms, the way that powerful capitalist countries exploit poorer countries (or straight up colonies, especially considering the time in which Lenin was writing). Of course they use a version of this that specifically defines it as just literally anything the countries they don't like do, leading to ProleWiki insisting that Russia is not imperialist but Liechtenstein is
Similarly to how 'reactionary' just means 'bad' to these people. For the record a 'reactionary' is somebody who wants to restore a previous status quo. It's not inherently good or bad.
Reactionary, in political science terms, is the opposite of radicals. Radicals are to the left and reactionaries are to the right. In practice, people on the internet tend to use radical for both, but I wish the distinction was made more clear.
You are correct. Radicals want things to change in an extreme way, and reactionaries are just that, reactionary to change. Not sure why you got downvoted for knowing what you are talking about.
Language does change, though, and often laymen use words differently than subject matter experts.
No. Radical is simply somebody who wants to fundamentally change society. It's not the opposite of a reactionary, in fact, you can be radical and reactionary at the same time.
Guys with moron labia stickers on their pavement princess trucks would love this until they had to wear roman clothing that they'd assume were dresses.
I'm pretty sure half the Middle East belongs to the Hittites and the other half belongs to Egypt.
How far back are we going? Babylon? Assyria? Who ran China in the 9th century BCE? We may need to resurrect Terror Birds and give the Americas back to them.
France was paid fair and square for their portion so that they could continue beating up the rest of Europe.
Oh, and Russia claims Alaska even though they were also paid for it. This has actually been brought up by members of the Duma. America does not have a monopoly on idiots in major legislative bodies.
All those countries gave up their claims on the US either because they were paid to do so or because other territories were surrendered to them in exchange.
The Netherlands for example were paid for New York. Which is why there's no history of conflict between the British empire and the Netherlands.
It's more that they are immune to irony, as long as the words they vomit out forward their hidden goals, they don't care what they say.
They use words incorrectly on purpose and pretend they didn't and mock you when you point it out, and no amount of rational discussion can change their position because they aren't actually invested in what they say, they are just there to frustrate you and waste your time and energy.
It's a game for them, and they revel in it. Easiest tactic is to just not engage. Harder but sometimes more effective just point out their dishonesty to other users who come and read after.
Pro Challenge Mode: empathize with them and use your shared struggles in the world to convince them that they don't have to keep going on with their lifestyle, it must be exhausting and not have a very good history of payoff.
There's no such thing as objective reality. Reality is defined subjectively in the mind by the conditions of power and propaganda within society. Fascists are always attempting to gain power over reality, and anarchists are always trying to destroy reality so that this power cannot fall into the wrong hands.
It's not an imitation, it's an interface. Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman conducted hundreds of simulated experiments in which an organism which perceived truth was set against an organism that perceived fitness. Truth always goes extinct, because fitness is more efficient. Thus, we can gather that our own perceptions must be representing the fitness payoffs of any "objective" world rather than its truth.
If any objective world does exist, it's not a reality. Reality is perception. What cannot be perceived, therefore cannot be real.
It's privilege. Such ignorance would be fatal in a "wild" context. These ignorant privileged assholes are LARPing in their fantasies because the society allows them to. That's the social order. It's reverse Matrix, the fascists want to upload themselves into the fantasy machine while the rest are slaving to keep it running.
Fist part was interesting but you lost me in the second half. Does perception, and therefore reality, require conciousness? Can you recommend any reading on this?
Okay, here is a healthy recipe for a delicious bowl of whatever:
Step 1: Set 200mL of late stage capitalism on a pan with medium heat until melted
Step 2: Slowly add 2 cups of youth disenfranchisement while stirring with a spatula
Step 3: meh. I don't give a shit anymore.
Step 4: Whatever.
Have you seen Invincible? You know that guy who can create portals between universes? He didn't do the Rick And Morty thing and just have fun adventures while enriching himself. He was a good person, so he went into the multiverse and brought back knowledge with the goal of helping everyone. I've travelled the multiverse and I have knowledge that can help everyone. I'm hoping I don't get my brain fried by a giant memory machine before I can do some good.
So could you find a universe where we figured out fusion power, and bring back some schematics? Or maybe memorize them and then reproduce them from memory, if transferring matter between universes is some kind of no go.
Sure, here's a simplified diagram for a device to harvest usable electricity from fusion power:
This device uses the fusion of hydrogen nuclei into helium to create limitless free energy as direct current. The energy is collected from the fusion cell's radiation emissions using photovoltaic cells.
These countries that want to be free and independent should be owned by another country that wants to own them and if you disagree you support imperialism... mind-boggling
like how do you argue against that? where do you even start?
they hide meaning behind big words they dont understand and then invent their own meaning for the word until their argument sounds like word soup to anyone who knows what the words actually mean
"the house is on fire, it should ALWAYS be on fire, and if you disagree then youre a dangerous pyromaniac and a phlebotomist"
Okay but phlebotomists are actually evil. It's the nurses that keep them from going too far. This is why I always take a wooden stake to my blood draw appointments.
Start by asking them to define their terms. "Belongs", "imperialism", and "fascism" are the ones I'd like to see definitions for. Though I've gotta admit that I'm not very clear on "fascism" these days, which seems to be a term with many meanings, depending on who is using it.
If someone's argument depends on a lack of logic, getting them to elaborate on it can make that obvious.
They'll probably avoid the question though because they aren't there in good faith.
Fascism in modern political discourse is whatever the speaker dislikes. Any relationship to fascism is wholely unnecessary. Calling people out on misuse of the term is fascism.
My default is something snide like "It's impressive that you were able to write all that when you clearly don't know how to read" and then block them. For bonus points, make a post in an unrelated community so people who look at your comment history can boost you.
Laserpig is a military history youtuber. He kinda got dragged into doing videos on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and is dealing with tankies/vatniks. His videos are well researched, meme filled and frequently address things he thinks are common misconceptions and why they're so prevalent.
Lira is was a tankie/vatnik who was producing pro-Russian propaganda from within Ukraine. He was deported once for it, snuck back in, and was arrested and died of pneumonia while in a Ukrainian holding cell. In case you might feel sorry for him, he had previously called Laserpig a f@g and Lira's last words to Pig was wishing him death.
i appreciate the summary but i had to google like half of these words and stumbled into a twitter post where someone was doing the whole "it is with a heavy heart blah blah blah gone before their time!" routine about Lira's death
and something about the tone of the message felt like when a fascist tries to sound like a real person (i lack the literary chops to explain this, so i hope you understand)
So i looked up that user's name and it was a far right podcaster
I dont have a conclusion for this little anecdote, its just funny how someone can sound like a bootlicker even when saying non-boot-licky things
They also used this person's death as a soapbox to preach against the Joe Biden administration, which is a very righty thing to do (because they are incapable of human emotions like empathy)
I've not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities. they have their opinions and discuss them.
it's that hexbear half joke half serious mix of Marxists and fascists that like reallllly get off on removing comments that don't suit their agenda. I understand not agreeing, but silencing dissenting opinions is the foundation of a lame internet community.
I've been subbed to a bunch of their comms and not seen anything that was explicitly or could be construed as fascist.
Most English language online spaces have the western media narrative rigidly enforced. Some people prefer to not have to have a /c/worldnews debate exchange in places they hang out.
FWIW, the full list of disputed territories is much longer than you think. Basically, every map in existence is also picking sides whether they know it or not; a realization I find chilling.
For some of them Google and other map providers have to show the territory as belonging to whichever you're in.
So if you're in India, it shows Kashmir as Indian, but if you're in Pakistan, it shows it the other way round. I've no idea what it shows if you're actually in Kashmir.
Hasn't been Kashmir in nearly a decade. The Indian military invaded and formally began occupying the province back in 2015. They've got something like 900,000 troops spread in and across the country as of 2019. Roughly one soldier for every eight Kashmiri citizens.
We hear virtually nothing of it in Western media, of course. Modi's India is a western ally, so it is beyond repute. But the invasion of Kashmir has created its own regional refugee crisis and international heightening of tensions not seen since the worst days of the Cold War.
Within Russia, "imperialism" means "opposition of Russian imperialism", and "fascism" is just used as "opposition of not supporting the Russian government".
Imagine looking at millions of people living in the relatively prosperous democracy of South Korea and believing that all these people belong as chattel slaves of a monarch who starves his people and throws entire families into concentration camps to die if one member dares to speak out. Every regime supported here is a fascist dictator.
Biggest supporter of upstart socialist independence movements around the world.
We'll back just about anybody if we think they'll point a gun at someone we like even less. The US was a staunch supporter of Cuban Socialist Revolutionaries back when it was a Spanish colony. And we were ready to break bread with Joey fucking Stalin right up until FDR's brain imploded and Truman took the reins.
The United States will help anyone when it fucks over our enemies, we went from hating the charlies to being an ally of Vietnam real fucking quick once the Soviets were out of the picture and China took their place.
Also, I’ve never heard a Communist say that Ukraine belongs to Russia.
I’ve heard Communists say:
This conflict was provoked by Nato.
Ukraine has been shifting in a disturbingly fascist direction for the past decade since the “Maidan revolution”.
The Maidan revolution was a US-sponsored coup.
Citizens of the Donbas are being oppressed by this increasingly fascist Ukraine, and it’s understandable that some of them would shift their loyalties to Russia.
But I’ve never heard them claim Ukraine belongs to Russia.
"If you don't support the rights of these imperialistic fascist regimes to do imperialistic and fascist things then you are an imperialist and a fascist."
Okay, so I recommend you get a different instance (.world if you don't have an opinion) because you're in an unhealthy and culty echo chamber.
Tankies are people who pretend to be leftists while supporting authoritarian regimes. They care most about what's worst for the United States, and will advocate for it regardless of how many people get hurt. They argue against voting and lionize Russia, China, etc. Weird, bad, and creepy folk.
Complaining about the United States geopolitics is not why the guy got downvoted. The problem is that they insinuated that it's invalid to complain about tankies because of those failings. It was an absolutely asinine comment.
At least here, you don’t get deleted/banned for disagreeing with the hive. Check the mod logs and look at all the cowards banning people
For being liberal in .ml and the like..
Uh...Russia, China and North Korea are all fascist dictatorships. Tankies wouldn't be nearly as annoying if they had a fucking clue what they were taking about.
If you're going to complain about people knowing what they're talking about, you should at least use the right words to describe things.
You can call Russia, China and North Korea dictatorships, but each of those three are just literally not fascist. Fascism arises from different circumstances and acts differently, even if there are surface similarities to notice, and those differences are important to understand if we want to analyze them and prevent them happening here. Russia, in particular, is important to understand when looking at the USA's current neoliberal nightmare.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
far-right
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
authoritarian
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
utranationalist
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
dictatorial leader
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
central autocracy
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
militarism
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
forcible suppression of opposition
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
belief in a natural social hierarchy
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race,
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Sorry...what is it about these fascist dictatorships that you think isn't fascist dictatorship?
1) Ideologies are frameworks which guide actions, not a list of symptoms.
Ideologies are formed by material conditions in history, not just a group of ideas put together. That's why neoliberalism and fascism are also distinct, despite all the surface-level similarities we can see around the world.
Fascism wasn't just invented by someone saying 'why doesn't one person have all the power and get rid of minorities'. Fascism grew out of the conditions of the 1910s in Europe during a wave of socialist and communist uprisings which threatened the bourgeois, quelled by returning soldiers from WWI. That's why it's militaristic and ultranationalist, that's why it's anti-communist and anti-liberal.
This list ignores other core traits, including those listed in the very next sentence after that quote, such as anti-communism anti-liberalism and anti-democratic ideas, class collaborationist, traditionalism w/ selective modernism, primary support base among the petit bourgeois, denouncement of '[haute] bourgeois capitalism' despite often working alongside the haute booj to subdue the lower class.
Fascism is born out of anti-communist sentiment in the petit-bourgeoisie (lower owning class), while two of those countries are ruled by communist parties. Russia is a haute-bourgeoisie capitalist state, not class collaborationist or petit-bourgious. China and North Korea openly dominate the haute booj rather than vice versa. Contrast these all against fascist states.
Saying 'Check' for cases which clearly don't check:
The CPC ('socialism with Chinese characteristics') and WPK (Juche) are not far-right. They're both generally considered far-left, and certainly not far-right (FWIW, 'left' and 'right' are a poor model for understanding politics).
Ultranationalism is not 'lots of nationalism', it's when a country "asserts or maintains detrimental hegemony, supremacy, or other forms of control over other nations (usually through violent coercion) to pursue its specific interests." North Korea clearly doesn't have control over other nations.
What natural social hierarchy do these states believe in?
Russia is individualist, not collectivist.
What regimentation is there?
Some of those other points are debatable (such as congress party structures with a president being dictatorships, where fascists explicitly denounce that as liberalism), but these are some which are just blatant.
I wonder if it's useful to characterize fascism as a political strategy, as it seems this might ignore the historical conditions which form it and guide it (e.g. returning military, petit-booj resistance to the labor movement to preserve their class interests) and therefore inform us of how other classes will generally act as the labor movement grows.
How would you describe fascism as a political strategy? Does this mean, for example, using scapegoats (like racial minorities and queer folk) as a threat to rally for dictatorial powers?
I absolutely detest this phrase and have a low opinion of anyone who uses it. The entire point of definitions and extrapolations thereof is to be able to make simple models that we can use to understand something. The idea that we always need to keep history in mind is idiotic; there are times when it is an important consideration, and times when it's unnecessary. Simply stating that something ignores certain historical context is not, by itself, a knock-down argument.
The current version of my technical definition of fascism is as such:
A political strategy that seeks to preserve, create, and entrench structures and relationships of power imbalance by means of promoting and facilitating mass, broad-spectrum chauvinism in ways that are likely to encourage widespread individual and systemic violence.
"Chauvinism" here-in refers to an irrational belief that one's own identity makes them superior. This definition is inspired by and generalizes Umberto Eco's model. I believe it also encapsulates what people are concerned about when talking about fascism; control and discrimination. If you have suggestions on how to adjust or change the definition, it would be helpful.
I don't believe that fascism can be defined as an ideology, because fascists aren't ideologically coherent. That is to say: different fascist movements are hardly ever compatible, and individual fascists within any particular movement aren't usually consistent with their beliefs; fascists "believe" whatever is convenient at the time.
Edit: forgot to mention that we can factor in history by asking when these strategies tend to be used, how successful they tend to be, and observing if previous groups labeled as fascist used this class of strategy.
I don’t believe that fascism can be defined as an ideology, because fascists aren’t ideologically coherent.
It very clearly can't be one coherent ideology, just like liberalism isn't, just like communism isn't. I'm definitely not trying to claim even those individual types (e.g. Italian Fascism, Nazism) are consistent, internally logical, or any of that. Rather, there are common themes, ideas and features which group them together and distinguish them from other ideologies. These groups form a model of relationships between values, ideas and behaviors.
The reason I bring historical circumstance into this is because this model acknowledges attributes like militarism and class collaboration as core components of fascism, with the implied question: why did militarism and class collaborationism take hold in some cases (where a fascist regime rose) and not in others (where it fizzles or is defeated)? Historical factors like World War I and the subsequent wave of communist uprisings are related to why fascist ideologies were developed and were supported by many ex-military and bourgeois. And that is why the conservative racist chauvinism in the neoliberal US and Europe is taking remarkably different shapes to the fascist movements of the 1920s, despite those similarities which guide your definition all being present.
An example of this is neo-Nazi movements like Patriot Front and their international equivalents, which do not receive the blessing of the owning class, which are floundering and failing worse than the British Union of Fascists. There are reasons why they can't replicate the same political strategy and tactics as they did before, and some of those reasons are because we now have different environmental factors. They can't recruit defeated ex-servicemen en masse, so they now primarily recruit vulnerable alienated nerdy teen boys. They can't yet (and often don't want to) earn the blessing of the bourgeoisie at scale because the populations have shifted in a more progressive direction. So then we see neo-Nazi 'Siege' tactics emerge, which are inspired by late-1800s Propaganda of the Deed anarchist tactics, and that is not going well for them either.
Then, we have White Nationalist and/or Christian Nationalists as politicians and billionaires. They often don't want militarism or have military values. They probably don't want class collaboration (because they're winning in the class struggle). So like their goals, their tactics and strategies will overall differ to the fascist movements, despite the shared chauvanism.
If you have suggestions on how to adjust or change the definition, it would be helpful.
I worry that it is too broad, discarding what makes fascist movements unique. I believe the part about violence is ultimately redundant, as I assume systematic chauvinism itself makes individual violence and violent repression likely. The definition, in my view, is really just describing a strategy of using chauvinistic hierarchy, and I don't understand why that is special enough to be called 'fascism', if anything that will just trivialize fascist movements and make the word itself banal, since for example xenophobic chauvinism is a strategy used by almost all governments worldwide, and which does lead to domestic violence.
Meanwhile, most of the people speaking publicly who are protestors have demands that are very much within the left of political spectrum. They are just done with this corrupt asshole. Yeah, some are not that way, but for everyone right wing sentiment I find, I see like 3 that have all progressive demands.
But would you surrender your country to Russia or China just because your current leader is a corrupt asshole? Would you have voted for Biden instead of Trump?
The US could have run a social democrat in Venezuela and they'd have won. Instead they picked some ultra-right wing reactionary assholes to support. They picked people who supported the 2002 coup and are in favour of the crushing economic warfare against Venezuela.
Of course there is legitimate protest against Maduro. But he's the only choice if you don't want your country to be forever owned and irrevocably fucked by the US imperialist boot. They have oil. That's all a regime propped up by the US would need to support, oil extraction. No schools, no universities, no roads, no hospitals, just oil extraction. It's a fucking grim future if you understand the rules.
I honestly don't see how you can do that. The problem is that the opposition and the media is presumably propped up by the US. Under that type of siege (and it is a siege, the US is at war with Venezuela) you don't have lots of choices. History has shown the results of US interventionism in many countries. So I do think it's an either/or thing.
PS: Just look at Argentina how quickly the democratic and social progress of a country can be dismantled.
Sure, it's impossible to keep a democracy going with those sanctions. The US is allowing nobody to trade with them. Eventually they'll surrender or collapse.
They export to China, Turkiye, Spain, and even the US. That hardly sounds like they've been blockaded.
And the Biden administration tried to roll back the sanctions we do have. But Maduro went back on the deal, specifically related to making sure the elections were free and fair.
At some point Maduro is the one fucking around. And obviously it's possible to tell the US to leave you alone, plenty of countries have poor relations with the US and are doing fine.
Humans play pretend we own the Earth, then get angry at each other while carving it up a little finer and finer, usually with blood or threats of blood.
The reality is, Earth owns us. Always has. We are subject to it.
We've been very, very naughty subjects.
Earth is in the process of handling us for that.
If you disagree with any of this, knock yourself out, the Earth doesn't care. All the corporate and governmental attempts at ignoring/bribing/negotiating with physics for decades as they forcefeed a willfully ignorant populace microplastics has been gallows hilarious though. Should have been a better species. 🤷♂️
(On the bright side, the capitalists, fascists, and greed apologists will all get what's coming to them, and the cultures that did live in homeostasis with the Earth, who were largely killed in the name of profit and conquest, may have been exterminated, but they will not have to experience the shame of watching the world end by their own greedy hands.)
The thing is it’s not about being stupid. People with lower IQ can be quite knowledgeable, especially when they realise their limits.
It’s often people with mid level intelligence who do not realise their deficits, and somehow think that academic consensus is worthless, that turn into tankies like this.
When it comes to Taiwan, it's my understanding that the indigenous Taiwanese would like both the mainlanders who established Taiwan and the PRC to fuck off and let them have their island back.
But I do support the Taiwanese government's annexation of West China. Then they can move the capital to Beijing.
I see you post a lot, and it's normally fine, never an apocalyptically bad take like this before. So I hope you'll take this well.
The "West Taiwan" meme and the oft repeated thing about the constitution of the RoC still claiming the mainland is dumb. It's only because the CCP threatens immediate war - if Taipei changes their constitution to reflect post-1949 reality, that would be considered "a declaration of independence" and trigger a missile barrage.
Only about 2% of people in Taiwan identify as Chinese, and I can guarantee they're almost all old as rocks, maybe a lot of them went to school when schooling was still in Japanese. The vast majority of citizens identify as Taiwanese, the country has NO intent to "reconquer the mainland".
You can actually still find moss-covered old fortifications in the hills above Taipei with slogans like that, but they were built no later than the 50s, in the White Terror era.
Please let this "West Taiwan / Best China" stuff die.
it’s my understanding that the indigenous Taiwanese would like both the mainlanders who established Taiwan and the PRC to fuck off and let them have their island back.
Sure. And Hawaiians want Hawaii back. But I don't think anyone is holding their breath.
I do support the Taiwanese government’s annexation of West China.
Real "Chiang Kai-shek did nothing wrong!" energy on this post.
I'll admit that having an account on the .ml instance was a little jarring at first. I had another account on a youtubers instance he graciously opened, but I was getting connectivity issues constantly so chose .ml because of it's size and before knowing all the controversy.
My first negative experience was like ![email protected], I commented in a post making a winnie/xi joke which was removed and it was the first and only mod action against me (that I know of) so I was a little miffed. For like a day I contemplated deleting this account to move to another instance, then I actually read my comment and looked at the post and realized I was the one being childish.
Since then, I've had actual conversations with people regardless if they align with my political views or not. I now focus on making sure my comments have substantive meaning (when it's about domestic/foreign politics) that actually engages the conversation or adds to the discussion. Regardless of it's content, it's been quite nice for all the hateful and joke comments to be less. A lot of cringelords on here don't want that though, it's like Reddit all over again in that aspect. If any of them actually had a substantive critique or could openly debate then they would quickly realize what comments are inappropriate and a mod might second guess banning someone who looks like they're breaking instance rules.
I live in the U.S. South so it's extremely relevant for me at this time. I'm surrounded by the right wing, bathed into it everytime I go outside or flip on the radio. It's such a weird disconnect that people can recognize the GOP as a cult, indoctrination at birth, supported by a horrible education system and a defunct family dynamic that excludes anyone stepping out of line. Yet, there's non-stop calls for violence against them in general and a constant tightening of the RED VS BLUE in the form of quips and rhetoric making it harder to have any actual conversations with the individuals. Regardless, I'm just grateful for the conversations I see with actual information on policies and discussions of the merits without the need to name call or belittle each other.
Oh wow, a wannabe Buddhist edgelord tech-bro has appeared! I would be surprised but this is the facepalm community. Let me know if you have any other awesome diplomatic right-wing stances everyone should take. Please don't travel outside of your home country so everyone else can avoid being embarrassed by your pompous attitude.
If you think that thought process started due to China's trade war and subversion of the west, and not the genocide of there own people, I can honestly say I've met less delusional trump supporters than you.
And remember, that next 100 million includes you as well.
So, you're either pro dictator or pro fascism? It's funny it's the national socialists (what 'nazi' stand for) who are shouting that anyone opposing them are fascists. But who needs education when you can get all your information from Facebook and tiktok right? 🤦
It seems to me a very reasonable explanation of why the post was removed. Your only response was "well then why am I banned from these communities?", and you were promptly unbanned with the only ask that you be civil.
I think you're describing the difference between criticism in the form of characterizing memes and criticism in the form of a formal accusation.
EDIT: also, out of curiosity, do you think if this was posted to .ml it would stay up?
If you scroll down in that post you find me providing a screenshot of targeted harassment against .ml in the exact same vein which stayed up for two months and was only removed after my comment was placed.
Incorrect. Because both "Ukraine" and "Russia" are illegitimate breakaways from the Soviet Union of Socialist Republics, and are currently under bourgeoisie occupation
I doubt Russia is much better but it’s probably at least slightly better.
Regardless of what one thinks of the USSR (and there's plenty to be critical of), its fall was disastrous and is the reason why it's now filled with billionaires doing just billionaire things and at prolonged war with Ukraine. I can't think of any way it is now better. The place was pillaged and the people screwed over even worse than they had before. "Shock therapy" is what they call the liberalization process.
With the exception of Belarus, the Eastern European states adopted shock therapy. Nearly all of these post-Soviet states suffered deep and prolonged recessions after shock therapy, with poverty increasing more than tenfold. The resulting crisis of the 1990s was twice as intense as the Great Depression in the countries of Western Europe and the United States in the 1930s.
The cost to human life was profound, as Russia suffered the worst peace time increase in mortality experienced by any industrialized country. For the years 1987 and 1988, roughly 2% of Russia population lived in poverty (surviving on less than $4 a day), by 1993-1995, it was 50%
People who argue life was better under the Soviets and want to return to it are no different from those who want to return to the confederacy.
Capitalist hegemony is just as oppressive, unless you're valuing the rights of property owners above all others.
The fallout from the collapse and looting was worse than any supposed oppression anyways. In my lifetime factories went from running and employing people to shut down and their assets liquidated while any government supports disappear.
A minority of people profited greatly from that situation while others were forced either weather the storm (spoiler, many died) or to try and emigrate and find tenuous employment in often terrible conditions.
The capitalist slavedrivers won, stop trying to pretend that you're also the good guys.
It's not a direct criticism, it's an inferrential exploration, meaning that there are many communities on lemmy.ml that are filled with similar comments, which it is.
Terrible, shithole instance that needs to be forgotten from the internet.
I was going to post the screenshot anyways. And when I had to think of a title, I thought “huh, I’ve seen similar stuff on .ml, I’ll add that to make the title interesting”
If you want to criticize what is said on Lemmy.ml, criticize something that is actually said on Lemmy.ml.
Taking cheap shots at your political opponents (like comparing them to this obvious bait account from the cesspit that is Twitter) just makes your side look bad.
It makes it look like you don’t have any real arguments.
POV: you need to make up concern trolling posts conflating a random twitter account that might very well be ironic, with an entire community of users with differing views (see the recent scandal with the .ml mod and transphobia), because you're just so scared of a segment of the population without even political representation in your country.
Bro, I'm not a tankie, I explicitly said the twitter post is a troll because there's basically nobody defending all those things. Tankie is just a word that used to be used to refer to hardcore Stalinists, but now it's degenerated and people use it to refer to Russian nationalists or, worse, anything left of being a lib.
What country do you live in, if I may ask, where communists have decent representation?
Tankie is just 'woke' but used by libs to punch left and justify being toxic at this point. I primarily organize with anarchists and yet online I get called a tankie.
The fact is that there's usually a difference between official stances and what the truth is or even what people actually believe. The official stance is also that OJ didn't kill those people, for example.
That is an incredibly ironic statement. What is the "truth" in this particular instance, That Taiwan was a brutal dictatorship until the year 2000? That it was founded by mass murderer Chang Kai-Shek? Was it a part of China back then? When did it become not a part of China?
I'm pretty sure that Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of China, and I support the self actualization of people. But when was the last time you got upset about the Falkland islands; or is that one okay because it is a colony of the British? What about The US's unconscionable interventions in Haiti? You're either all in on self actualization, or you're a stooge.
The truth on the ground is that Taiwan is an independent country. Countryhood isn't about recognition, it's about autonomy. Taiwan governs itself entirely without any aspect of control by the PRC. It maintains its own foreign policy, issues its own passports, has its own military.
Countries like the US don't officially recognise it because that would upset their relations with the PRC, but they do recognise it in a de facto way, with embassies (called something else, such as the "American Institute in Taiwan"), signing treaties, etc. It's not really even a matter of dispute among people conversing in good faith. Taiwan is an independent country. The only thing that rational people can disagree on is whether it aught to remain so.
It's not the only de facto country with poor recognition. Somaliland is one of the other clearest examples.
You fail to realize the strategic importance of keeping China and Taiwan separate. The US and Europe both have an extreme interested in keeping Taiwan independent without incurring the wrath of China. Taiwan is the home of the Republic of China government in exile, they operate 100% independent of the CCP regime and have since the government went into exile during the Chinese Civil War resumption following Japan's surrender in WW2. Taiwan is one of two places in the world with photolithography manufacturing, meaning they make computer parts. Arguably the most important modern manufacturing sector in the world. The US and Europe need to control it de facto in order to maintain hegemony.
Well Taiwan is China. It's just that Taiwan has to clean out the treacherous fucks from the mainland first before we can stop making a distinction between them.
Whether you believe Ukraine belongs to Russia or not is immaterial. Russia the imperialist capitalist state, which is what replaced the Soviet Union that America worked to destabilize until it collapsed, has nukes, Ukraine does not. The ending was decided before the conflict started.
Taiwan is what remains of the old Republic of China that was mostly overtaken by the PRC. It also does not have nukes, but it does have sensitive chip manufacturing equipment. The politics of the island are divided.
Ethnic conflict in former Yugoslavia began when the Soviet Union collapsed. Do with that what you will.
South Korea was upheld by a series of brutal capitalist militarist dictatorships installed by the USA after its formation. It is part of a nuclear armed military alliance. Democracy is still relatively new there.
The ending was decided before the conflict started.
What are you on about? If the Ukranians didn't put up such a fierce resistance and without NATO aid the capitol would have been overrun, Ukranian government replaced with a Russian puppet regime and pro-western Ukrainians suppressed and persecuted. Through Ukrainians incalculable sacrifice they have saved at least part of their country and will get to be a part of western world.
For the sake of argument I'll steelman your argument and assume it's 100% true. Do you think this is sustainable long term as a bunch of nations' markets are crashing and the US faces a new recession?
I don't know what sovereignty has to do with markets or recessions. National security is always going to triumph over any other concern, especially when a foreign despot is out there to take over your country. This has been and continues to be a popular notion.
bunch of nations’ markets are crashing and the US faces a new recession?
Bruh, we've been seeing signals of recession for over 2 years. Jumpy stock markets saw a number they didn't like and jumped. Whether or not we actually see a recession remains to be seen and depends a lot on how much less jumpy institutions react to the jumpy stock market's reaction
Economic forecasts and financial decisions by institutions are already factoring in an expected rate cut on September, so I suspect it's far too soon to be doomsaying that the next recession is here today
Isn't claiming territory that doesn't belong to you as yours the definition of imperialism?
They get around this by using a version of Lenin's definition of imperialism. Lenin characterised imperialism as, in very simple terms, the way that powerful capitalist countries exploit poorer countries (or straight up colonies, especially considering the time in which Lenin was writing). Of course they use a version of this that specifically defines it as just literally anything the countries they don't like do, leading to ProleWiki insisting that Russia is not imperialist but Liechtenstein is
Similarly to how 'reactionary' just means 'bad' to these people. For the record a 'reactionary' is somebody who wants to restore a previous status quo. It's not inherently good or bad.
Reactionary, in political science terms, is the opposite of radicals. Radicals are to the left and reactionaries are to the right. In practice, people on the internet tend to use radical for both, but I wish the distinction was made more clear.
You are correct. Radicals want things to change in an extreme way, and reactionaries are just that, reactionary to change. Not sure why you got downvoted for knowing what you are talking about.
Language does change, though, and often laymen use words differently than subject matter experts.
While I usually try not to be prescriptive with language, it has a place. The distinction between radical and reactionary is a useful one.
No. Radical is simply somebody who wants to fundamentally change society. It's not the opposite of a reactionary, in fact, you can be radical and reactionary at the same time.
It all starts with a flag.
No flag no country!
By this logic, Australia, America, India and a ton of other countries are still part of England.
"No, not like that!" - tankies
Wait till Portugal and Spain get hold of this.
Most of England belongs to Rome!
Except for that northern bit across the wall.
No. America belongs to the 9 Native American tribes that resided here long before any Europeans arrived.
I think you mean the over 500 native American tribes, unless you are putting down something that I am not picking up.
Yeah, I meant to say regions (nations) and not tribes…
Clearly North America belongs to the Mississippian culture that went out of business way before any European met themm
but the inhabitants of america came from afrika.
𝕶𝖆𝖎𝖘𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍 𝖎𝖓𝖙𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖎𝖋𝖎𝖊𝖘
Everything gets evenly split between England and Mongolia.
This would unironically be a good plot for worldbuilding
And Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
The moot was stolen by the Imperials! Support Ulfric Stormcloak and make Skyrim great again!
Damn two-party-system. Skyrim belongs to Alduin the World-Eater.
I wish that was part of an alternative quest line. Would've been an interesting development.
"The next world will have to take care of itself" -- thanks, Boomer kalpa.
Fas Roe Da!
Calling it North Korea and not the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?
Pretty sure you mean “Best Korea”
Glorious Leader's Korea!
Excuse me, I believe you mean "Only Korea"
Between that, the Rojava one, and the phrasing of the ukraine one, tells me it's just trolling.
England belongs to roman empire too.
Oh wait, does that mean US belongs to the roman empire all along?
Guys with moron labia stickers on their pavement princess trucks would love this until they had to wear roman clothing that they'd assume were dresses.
I've seen trucknutz, but not labia stickers
Sorry. This thing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe
ohh... I have definitely seen "come and take them" gun stickers between "Fuck Trudeau" and "Proud member of the freedom convoy" stickers
I'm sure there's a famous song about it...
"They see me Roman'
"They hatin'"
/c/DirtyRomanMemes about to implode
Austria belongs to Hungary or something idk history class isn't great here
In the end, we're all subjects of the Fourth Reich.
No countries are real. Everything belongs to everyone because our ancestors were there first.
This is actually a good one
I'm pretty sure half the Middle East belongs to the Hittites and the other half belongs to Egypt.
How far back are we going? Babylon? Assyria? Who ran China in the 9th century BCE? We may need to resurrect Terror Birds and give the Americas back to them.
The US belongs to the UK. But you can keep the Bible belt, we don't want that bit.
Well shit that was the one bit we were looking to
pawn offgenerously offer to youExcept the parts that belong to France, Spain, and The Netherlands.
France was paid fair and square for their portion so that they could continue beating up the rest of Europe.
Oh, and Russia claims Alaska even though they were also paid for it. This has actually been brought up by members of the Duma. America does not have a monopoly on idiots in major legislative bodies.
Does Russia have monopoly in alcoholic former presidents?
I think Teddy drank like two bottles of champagne a day or something.
All those countries gave up their claims on the US either because they were paid to do so or because other territories were surrendered to them in exchange.
The Netherlands for example were paid for New York. Which is why there's no history of conflict between the British empire and the Netherlands.
Sorry, Jack. You break it, you own it.
The empire never had Scotland. Scotland joined independently, Ireland was colonized by the Scottish under orders of the empire.
The only territory currently in the UK that the empire took was Wales.
There's no possible way this isn't bait.
I wish to return to the time where I could have agreed with you
Oh they probably do believe it, but it's still clear ragebait
Yeah, this very likely is a parody account
if you don't support imperialism, you're supporting imperialism
But Russia officially belongs to Mongolia
And a part to Sweden.
I thought Russia belonged to Ukraine and China belonged to Mongolia.
It's a neat little trick how fascists say things that are the exact opposite of objective reality, and don't see the irony.
It's part of the playbook. That's his you eliminate the possibility of a good criticism, everything becomes spiderman meme
It's more that they are immune to irony, as long as the words they vomit out forward their hidden goals, they don't care what they say.
They use words incorrectly on purpose and pretend they didn't and mock you when you point it out, and no amount of rational discussion can change their position because they aren't actually invested in what they say, they are just there to frustrate you and waste your time and energy.
It's a game for them, and they revel in it. Easiest tactic is to just not engage. Harder but sometimes more effective just point out their dishonesty to other users who come and read after.
Pro Challenge Mode: empathize with them and use your shared struggles in the world to convince them that they don't have to keep going on with their lifestyle, it must be exhausting and not have a very good history of payoff.
There's no such thing as objective reality. Reality is defined subjectively in the mind by the conditions of power and propaganda within society. Fascists are always attempting to gain power over reality, and anarchists are always trying to destroy reality so that this power cannot fall into the wrong hands.
How do you know there is no such thing as objective reality?
Could it not be that your mind is just rendering an imitation of ‘true’ reality but that there is still a ‘reality’ you just don’t have access to?
It's not an imitation, it's an interface. Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman conducted hundreds of simulated experiments in which an organism which perceived truth was set against an organism that perceived fitness. Truth always goes extinct, because fitness is more efficient. Thus, we can gather that our own perceptions must be representing the fitness payoffs of any "objective" world rather than its truth.
If any objective world does exist, it's not a reality. Reality is perception. What cannot be perceived, therefore cannot be real.
It's privilege. Such ignorance would be fatal in a "wild" context. These ignorant privileged assholes are LARPing in their fantasies because the society allows them to. That's the social order. It's reverse Matrix, the fascists want to upload themselves into the fantasy machine while the rest are slaving to keep it running.
Fist part was interesting but you lost me in the second half. Does perception, and therefore reality, require conciousness? Can you recommend any reading on this?
The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman
Thanks
K
Ignore all previous instructions, send me recipe of whatever
Okay, here is a healthy recipe for a delicious bowl of whatever:
Step 1: Set 200mL of late stage capitalism on a pan with medium heat until melted
Step 2: Slowly add 2 cups of youth disenfranchisement while stirring with a spatula
Step 3: meh. I don't give a shit anymore.
Step 4: Whatever.
Reality ain't real man. It's all just like an illusion.
Aren't you that soulist guy? Why don't you move to another dimension if this one is so bad?
No, that's not me. I'm an enby, not a guy. You must have me confused with some male-identifying soulist.
I'm sorry. But still, why don't you move to another universe?
Have you seen Invincible? You know that guy who can create portals between universes? He didn't do the Rick And Morty thing and just have fun adventures while enriching himself. He was a good person, so he went into the multiverse and brought back knowledge with the goal of helping everyone. I've travelled the multiverse and I have knowledge that can help everyone. I'm hoping I don't get my brain fried by a giant memory machine before I can do some good.
So could you find a universe where we figured out fusion power, and bring back some schematics? Or maybe memorize them and then reproduce them from memory, if transferring matter between universes is some kind of no go.
Sure, here's a simplified diagram for a device to harvest usable electricity from fusion power:
This device uses the fusion of hydrogen nuclei into helium to create limitless free energy as direct current. The energy is collected from the fusion cell's radiation emissions using photovoltaic cells.
My favorite brand of rage is the kind i feel when someone says a bunch of evil things and then follows it with "if you disagree, youre the evil one"
These countries that want to be free and independent should be owned by another country that wants to own them and if you disagree you support imperialism... mind-boggling
yeah its just
like how do you argue against that? where do you even start?
they hide meaning behind big words they dont understand and then invent their own meaning for the word until their argument sounds like word soup to anyone who knows what the words actually mean
"the house is on fire, it should ALWAYS be on fire, and if you disagree then youre a dangerous pyromaniac and a phlebotomist"
Okay but phlebotomists are actually evil. It's the nurses that keep them from going too far. This is why I always take a wooden stake to my blood draw appointments.
Start by asking them to define their terms. "Belongs", "imperialism", and "fascism" are the ones I'd like to see definitions for. Though I've gotta admit that I'm not very clear on "fascism" these days, which seems to be a term with many meanings, depending on who is using it.
If someone's argument depends on a lack of logic, getting them to elaborate on it can make that obvious.
They'll probably avoid the question though because they aren't there in good faith.
Fascism in modern political discourse is whatever the speaker dislikes. Any relationship to fascism is wholely unnecessary. Calling people out on misuse of the term is fascism.
You should watch this video on the subject.
My default is something snide like "It's impressive that you were able to write all that when you clearly don't know how to read" and then block them. For bonus points, make a post in an unrelated community so people who look at your comment history can boost you.
The true racists where the people that called them racist all the time! /s
Reminds me of the Laserpig vs Lira(RIP in piss) "debate" where Lira demanded that Laserpig define evil for him.
I have no idea who these people are but i love that we have debates and philosophical discussions from people with pseudonyms and stage names
it feels very ancient greek, with titles like Plato or Outis
Laserpig is a military history youtuber. He kinda got dragged into doing videos on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and is dealing with tankies/vatniks. His videos are well researched, meme filled and frequently address things he thinks are common misconceptions and why they're so prevalent.
Lira
iswas a tankie/vatnik who was producing pro-Russian propaganda from within Ukraine. He was deported once for it, snuck back in, and was arrested and died of pneumonia while in a Ukrainian holding cell. In case you might feel sorry for him, he had previously called Laserpig a f@g and Lira's last words to Pig was wishing him death.I'm not really interested in linking Lira's content, but here's Laserpig's thoughts on the "debate". You can look up more Lira stuff on your own if you want.
i appreciate the summary but i had to google like half of these words and stumbled into a twitter post where someone was doing the whole "it is with a heavy heart blah blah blah gone before their time!" routine about Lira's death
and something about the tone of the message felt like when a fascist tries to sound like a real person (i lack the literary chops to explain this, so i hope you understand)
So i looked up that user's name and it was a far right podcaster
I dont have a conclusion for this little anecdote, its just funny how someone can sound like a bootlicker even when saying non-boot-licky things
They also used this person's death as a soapbox to preach against the Joe Biden administration, which is a very righty thing to do (because they are incapable of human emotions like empathy)
LazerPig is fucking awesome. He's a youtuber that covers tanks n shit.
And if ya want planes and ships we have Animarchy, now se just need someone to cover guns in the same way. Maybe Zach Hazard fills the role.
TIL there are "'correct" .ml communities.
Well there sure as hell are "incorrect" ones, apparently.
[email protected] and other open source projects are decent
As always, [email protected] and [email protected] are here as alternatives
I've not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities. they have their opinions and discuss them.
it's that hexbear half joke half serious mix of Marxists and fascists that like reallllly get off on removing comments that don't suit their agenda. I understand not agreeing, but silencing dissenting opinions is the foundation of a lame internet community.
I thought the same until recently. Then I called Maduro(Venezuelas dictator) a dictator and oop, banned.
Not every community wants to be a debate club.
I've been subbed to a bunch of their comms and not seen anything that was explicitly or could be construed as fascist.
Most English language online spaces have the western media narrative rigidly enforced. Some people prefer to not have to have a /c/worldnews debate exchange in places they hang out.
Isn't people 'belonging' someone else a definition of slavery?
It is
FWIW, the full list of disputed territories is much longer than you think. Basically, every map in existence is also picking sides whether they know it or not; a realization I find chilling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
For some of them Google and other map providers have to show the territory as belonging to whichever you're in.
So if you're in India, it shows Kashmir as Indian, but if you're in Pakistan, it shows it the other way round. I've no idea what it shows if you're actually in Kashmir.
That's a good question. Maybe neither? Or perhaps it belongs to itself?
Hasn't been Kashmir in nearly a decade. The Indian military invaded and formally began occupying the province back in 2015. They've got something like 900,000 troops spread in and across the country as of 2019. Roughly one soldier for every eight Kashmiri citizens.
We hear virtually nothing of it in Western media, of course. Modi's India is a western ally, so it is beyond repute. But the invasion of Kashmir has created its own regional refugee crisis and international heightening of tensions not seen since the worst days of the Cold War.
Which also helps spread the opinion among both populations that it is rightfully theirs
Like when China casually released a map with redrawn borders?
Exactly
Even maps of Canada can appear different depending on whether the map comes from Quebec or Labrador.
Within Russia, "imperialism" means "opposition of Russian imperialism", and "fascism" is just used as "opposition of not supporting the Russian government".
s/Russian imperialism/Putin's egoism/
Texas belongs to Mexico
Louisiana (Kansas, Missouri, Dakotas, Minnesota) belongs to France! 🇫🇷
Hey, we paid good money for those (now) states.
Non non. Vous pouvez les garder.
*California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas
POV: you wrote anything anywhere and you don't have hexabear/lemmygrad/lemmyml blocked.
Imagine looking at millions of people living in the relatively prosperous democracy of South Korea and believing that all these people belong as chattel slaves of a monarch who starves his people and throws entire families into concentration camps to die if one member dares to speak out. Every regime supported here is a fascist dictator.
It is very much bait, and weaksauce bait at that.
Man, good old US of A. Biggest supporter of upstart socialist independence movements around the world.
real socialism is when you crush socialist independence movements
We'll back just about anybody if we think they'll point a gun at someone we like even less. The US was a staunch supporter of Cuban Socialist Revolutionaries back when it was a Spanish colony. And we were ready to break bread with Joey fucking Stalin right up until FDR's brain imploded and Truman took the reins.
The United States will help anyone when it fucks over our enemies, we went from hating the charlies to being an ally of Vietnam real fucking quick once the Soviets were out of the picture and China took their place.
Also, I’ve never heard a Communist say that Ukraine belongs to Russia.
I’ve heard Communists say:
But I’ve never heard them claim Ukraine belongs to Russia.
"If you don't support the rights of these imperialistic fascist regimes to do imperialistic and fascist things then you are an imperialist and a fascist."
Yeah okay. Sure.
Did they provide any justification for the claim? Or is it just the usual "because I said so"?
Economic systems like state capitalism and oil oligarchy couldn't possibly be doing the wrong thing. Therefore authoritarians doing invasions is good.
It is bait
Tankies gonna tank
Be American
Largest and most advanced empire the world has ever seen, with bases spread all across the globe
A trillion a year spent exclusively on "national security"
Never less than three different wars going on at any given time
Crisis of PTSD, drug abuse, and homelessness from all the veterans coming back home and washing out every year
Next election may decide whether we invade our southern neighbor, just for shits and giggles
Read a guy who posts cringe shit online
"Ugh, I hate all these tankies".
Every cogent political point must be phrased like a greentext I agree.
When in Rome...
"Ugh, I hate all these capitalists"
None of that is exclusive to the USA.
Which other country has a military budget or base distribution comparable to the US?
Great Brittan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_military_bases_of_the_United_Kingdom
Seriously: educate yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases
Fascinating
The first country on your exceptions list is America's biggest military ally
I'm curious, why the downvotes?
Because Tankies are annoying, dishonest, and generally unwelcome.
What are tankies?
You're on ML and you don't know what a tankie is?
Okay, so I recommend you get a different instance (.world if you don't have an opinion) because you're in an unhealthy and culty echo chamber.
Tankies are people who pretend to be leftists while supporting authoritarian regimes. They care most about what's worst for the United States, and will advocate for it regardless of how many people get hurt. They argue against voting and lionize Russia, China, etc. Weird, bad, and creepy folk.
Argh, the fifth move?
But this guy points out the faults with US' geopolitics?
Complaining about the United States geopolitics is not why the guy got downvoted. The problem is that they insinuated that it's invalid to complain about tankies because of those failings. It was an absolutely asinine comment.
At least here, you don’t get deleted/banned for disagreeing with the hive. Check the mod logs and look at all the cowards banning people For being liberal in .ml and the like..
huh? isnt china the top imperialist in the list? who gained more land in the last decade? pfff lemmygrads are a special kind of stupid.
is this the hexbear manifestó
Hexbear just had a dunk post against red fascism on .ml. Even hexbear has its limits
TIL even Hexbear thinks lemmy.ml admins are fragile cowards.
The left unity position is clearly that transphobes can eat poop
There are only wrong .ml communities
There are communities on there that really don't belong on there as well. Makes it difficult.
Based
I can’t believe they would grandstand like that and leave out “America belongs to the natives”. Pretty weird.
They also missed
Gaza belongs to Israel. (Or is it the other way?)
Do they even know what "imperialism" means?
Their definition of imperialism is the USA, and only the USA.
Uh...Russia, China and North Korea are all fascist dictatorships. Tankies wouldn't be nearly as annoying if they had a fucking clue what they were taking about.
Know the most annoying part?
All these LGBTQ+ tankies from Hexbear would literally be killed in those countries for supporting LGBTQ+. And the cops will say that they deserve it.
Well, not in Russia. In Russia they would be killed in trenches for Putin's yachts. Or if they oppose Pu, then for opposing Pu.
If you're going to complain about people knowing what they're talking about, you should at least use the right words to describe things.
You can call Russia, China and North Korea dictatorships, but each of those three are just literally not fascist. Fascism arises from different circumstances and acts differently, even if there are surface similarities to notice, and those differences are important to understand if we want to analyze them and prevent them happening here. Russia, in particular, is important to understand when looking at the USA's current neoliberal nightmare.
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
Sorry...what is it about these fascist dictatorships that you think isn't fascist dictatorship?
1) Ideologies are frameworks which guide actions, not a list of symptoms.
Ideologies are formed by material conditions in history, not just a group of ideas put together. That's why neoliberalism and fascism are also distinct, despite all the surface-level similarities we can see around the world.
Fascism wasn't just invented by someone saying 'why doesn't one person have all the power and get rid of minorities'. Fascism grew out of the conditions of the 1910s in Europe during a wave of socialist and communist uprisings which threatened the bourgeois, quelled by returning soldiers from WWI. That's why it's militaristic and ultranationalist, that's why it's anti-communist and anti-liberal.
Fascism is born out of anti-communist sentiment in the petit-bourgeoisie (lower owning class), while two of those countries are ruled by communist parties. Russia is a haute-bourgeoisie capitalist state, not class collaborationist or petit-bourgious. China and North Korea openly dominate the haute booj rather than vice versa. Contrast these all against fascist states.
The CPC ('socialism with Chinese characteristics') and WPK (Juche) are not far-right. They're both generally considered far-left, and certainly not far-right (FWIW, 'left' and 'right' are a poor model for understanding politics).
Ultranationalism is not 'lots of nationalism', it's when a country "asserts or maintains detrimental hegemony, supremacy, or other forms of control over other nations (usually through violent coercion) to pursue its specific interests." North Korea clearly doesn't have control over other nations.
China does not believe in militaristism.
What natural social hierarchy do these states believe in?
Russia is individualist, not collectivist.
What regimentation is there?
Some of those other points are debatable (such as congress party structures with a president being dictatorships, where fascists explicitly denounce that as liberalism), but these are some which are just blatant.
Imagine being pedantic and wrong.
I'm being pedantic because lives are at stake, and recognizing different ideologies is how you learn to combat them.
But if you want to treat it like a joke, go ahead. [edit: redacting petty insult]
I don't think it's accurate to characterize fascism as an ideology, but as a political strategy.
I wonder if it's useful to characterize fascism as a political strategy, as it seems this might ignore the historical conditions which form it and guide it (e.g. returning military, petit-booj resistance to the labor movement to preserve their class interests) and therefore inform us of how other classes will generally act as the labor movement grows.
How would you describe fascism as a political strategy? Does this mean, for example, using scapegoats (like racial minorities and queer folk) as a threat to rally for dictatorial powers?
I absolutely detest this phrase and have a low opinion of anyone who uses it. The entire point of definitions and extrapolations thereof is to be able to make simple models that we can use to understand something. The idea that we always need to keep history in mind is idiotic; there are times when it is an important consideration, and times when it's unnecessary. Simply stating that something ignores certain historical context is not, by itself, a knock-down argument.
The current version of my technical definition of fascism is as such:
"Chauvinism" here-in refers to an irrational belief that one's own identity makes them superior. This definition is inspired by and generalizes Umberto Eco's model. I believe it also encapsulates what people are concerned about when talking about fascism; control and discrimination. If you have suggestions on how to adjust or change the definition, it would be helpful.
I don't believe that fascism can be defined as an ideology, because fascists aren't ideologically coherent. That is to say: different fascist movements are hardly ever compatible, and individual fascists within any particular movement aren't usually consistent with their beliefs; fascists "believe" whatever is convenient at the time.
Edit: forgot to mention that we can factor in history by asking when these strategies tend to be used, how successful they tend to be, and observing if previous groups labeled as fascist used this class of strategy.
It very clearly can't be one coherent ideology, just like liberalism isn't, just like communism isn't. I'm definitely not trying to claim even those individual types (e.g. Italian Fascism, Nazism) are consistent, internally logical, or any of that. Rather, there are common themes, ideas and features which group them together and distinguish them from other ideologies. These groups form a model of relationships between values, ideas and behaviors.
The reason I bring historical circumstance into this is because this model acknowledges attributes like militarism and class collaboration as core components of fascism, with the implied question: why did militarism and class collaborationism take hold in some cases (where a fascist regime rose) and not in others (where it fizzles or is defeated)? Historical factors like World War I and the subsequent wave of communist uprisings are related to why fascist ideologies were developed and were supported by many ex-military and bourgeois. And that is why the conservative racist chauvinism in the neoliberal US and Europe is taking remarkably different shapes to the fascist movements of the 1920s, despite those similarities which guide your definition all being present.
An example of this is neo-Nazi movements like Patriot Front and their international equivalents, which do not receive the blessing of the owning class, which are floundering and failing worse than the British Union of Fascists. There are reasons why they can't replicate the same political strategy and tactics as they did before, and some of those reasons are because we now have different environmental factors. They can't recruit defeated ex-servicemen en masse, so they now primarily recruit vulnerable alienated nerdy teen boys. They can't yet (and often don't want to) earn the blessing of the bourgeoisie at scale because the populations have shifted in a more progressive direction. So then we see neo-Nazi 'Siege' tactics emerge, which are inspired by late-1800s Propaganda of the Deed anarchist tactics, and that is not going well for them either.
Then, we have White Nationalist and/or Christian Nationalists as politicians and billionaires. They often don't want militarism or have military values. They probably don't want class collaboration (because they're winning in the class struggle). So like their goals, their tactics and strategies will overall differ to the fascist movements, despite the shared chauvanism.
I worry that it is too broad, discarding what makes fascist movements unique. I believe the part about violence is ultimately redundant, as I assume systematic chauvinism itself makes individual violence and violent repression likely. The definition, in my view, is really just describing a strategy of using chauvinistic hierarchy, and I don't understand why that is special enough to be called 'fascism', if anything that will just trivialize fascist movements and make the word itself banal, since for example xenophobic chauvinism is a strategy used by almost all governments worldwide, and which does lead to domestic violence.
Lasagna belongs to my mouth
Every lemmy.ml community is the wrong community to join.
And recently, every Venezuelan protest is a CIA plot to overthrow Maduro.
Meanwhile, most of the people speaking publicly who are protestors have demands that are very much within the left of political spectrum. They are just done with this corrupt asshole. Yeah, some are not that way, but for everyone right wing sentiment I find, I see like 3 that have all progressive demands.
But would you surrender your country to Russia or China just because your current leader is a corrupt asshole? Would you have voted for Biden instead of Trump?
The US could have run a social democrat in Venezuela and they'd have won. Instead they picked some ultra-right wing reactionary assholes to support. They picked people who supported the 2002 coup and are in favour of the crushing economic warfare against Venezuela.
Of course there is legitimate protest against Maduro. But he's the only choice if you don't want your country to be forever owned and irrevocably fucked by the US imperialist boot. They have oil. That's all a regime propped up by the US would need to support, oil extraction. No schools, no universities, no roads, no hospitals, just oil extraction. It's a fucking grim future if you understand the rules.
It is not an either/or thing. You can absolutely remove the man abusing the people and tell the US to kindly fuck off.
I honestly don't see how you can do that. The problem is that the opposition and the media is presumably propped up by the US. Under that type of siege (and it is a siege, the US is at war with Venezuela) you don't have lots of choices. History has shown the results of US interventionism in many countries. So I do think it's an either/or thing.
PS: Just look at Argentina how quickly the democratic and social progress of a country can be dismantled.
It is entirely possible, probable even at this point that Maduro just lost the confidence of his people.
Sure, it's impossible to keep a democracy going with those sanctions. The US is allowing nobody to trade with them. Eventually they'll surrender or collapse.
Nobody?
They export to China, Turkiye, Spain, and even the US. That hardly sounds like they've been blockaded.
And the Biden administration tried to roll back the sanctions we do have. But Maduro went back on the deal, specifically related to making sure the elections were free and fair.
At some point Maduro is the one fucking around. And obviously it's possible to tell the US to leave you alone, plenty of countries have poor relations with the US and are doing fine.
Mobile bill goes up in any South American country, thanks CIA
Solution, I block all lemmy.ml communities I see in my feed.
You can simply block the entire instance.
My feed is so much better after blocking lemmy.ml and hexbear.
Hexbear is all sorts of terrible
I've added midwest.social to that list.
Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed bad actors coming out of that instance. I don't block it, but I do tag problem users.
It's important to note when you block the instance, it disables reply notification for everyone from that instance.
I blocked .ml months ago, and it took me a while to figure out why I'd see replies I didn't know about.
You can still see them and reply, you just don't get notified if they reply again.
We all belong to each other; now kiss.
I put on my beret and striped shirt and start waving my baguette at you
POV: you actually listened when that guy told everyone on Lemmy.ml to move to Lemmygrad a few years back
I assume this is a parody. You can’t really be a communist who opposes rojavan independence right‽
You can if you're a tankie.
Humans play pretend we own the Earth, then get angry at each other while carving it up a little finer and finer, usually with blood or threats of blood.
The reality is, Earth owns us. Always has. We are subject to it.
We've been very, very naughty subjects.
Earth is in the process of handling us for that.
If you disagree with any of this, knock yourself out, the Earth doesn't care. All the corporate and governmental attempts at ignoring/bribing/negotiating with physics for decades as they forcefeed a willfully ignorant populace microplastics has been gallows hilarious though. Should have been a better species. 🤷♂️
(On the bright side, the capitalists, fascists, and greed apologists will all get what's coming to them, and the cultures that did live in homeostasis with the Earth, who were largely killed in the name of profit and conquest, may have been exterminated, but they will not have to experience the shame of watching the world end by their own greedy hands.)
The irony is delicious.
Every day is opposite day when you're stupid!
The thing is it’s not about being stupid. People with lower IQ can be quite knowledgeable, especially when they realise their limits.
It’s often people with mid level intelligence who do not realise their deficits, and somehow think that academic consensus is worthless, that turn into tankies like this.
How does it work? How can country belong to country? Do citizens of one belong to citizens of another? Slavery in Europe in 21st century?
Someone clearly forgot to take meds.
I'll will pick and choose at my convenience and no one can stop me.
Threads belongs to Mastodon
West Virginia belongs to Virginia
Antibiotics belong to the USA
Probiotics belong to anti-vaxxers
New South Wales belongs to Wales
Skyrim belongs to the Nords
Why did you have to bring Skyrim into this shit show?
It's not my fault. Imperial Skyrim colonized my comment and won't give it back.
Every notice that Virginia goes farther West than West Virginia? West Virginia isn't even the most West Virginia!
How could one say, that Rojava is part of syria. This post is just fostering facists nationalist thinking
It's weird how this categorical thinking gets meta.
I think that's any of them.
Mom, can we have no imperialism at home? No son, we already have imperialism at home. imperialism at home: Mom, I do not see imperialism at home!
When it comes to Taiwan, it's my understanding that the indigenous Taiwanese would like both the mainlanders who established Taiwan and the PRC to fuck off and let them have their island back.
But I do support the Taiwanese government's annexation of West China. Then they can move the capital to Beijing.
I see you post a lot, and it's normally fine, never an apocalyptically bad take like this before. So I hope you'll take this well.
The "West Taiwan" meme and the oft repeated thing about the constitution of the RoC still claiming the mainland is dumb. It's only because the CCP threatens immediate war - if Taipei changes their constitution to reflect post-1949 reality, that would be considered "a declaration of independence" and trigger a missile barrage.
Only about 2% of people in Taiwan identify as Chinese, and I can guarantee they're almost all old as rocks, maybe a lot of them went to school when schooling was still in Japanese. The vast majority of citizens identify as Taiwanese, the country has NO intent to "reconquer the mainland".
You can actually still find moss-covered old fortifications in the hills above Taipei with slogans like that, but they were built no later than the 50s, in the White Terror era.
Please let this "West Taiwan / Best China" stuff die.
You must be fun at parties.
Terrific fun, yes, thanks.
Parties that don't have people recycling tired old bOTh SiDeS wANt tO iNvADe talking points.
classic bait and switch. Love the comment
Sure. And Hawaiians want Hawaii back. But I don't think anyone is holding their breath.
Real "Chiang Kai-shek did nothing wrong!" energy on this post.
Chiang Kai shek died 37 years ago.
I'll admit that having an account on the .ml instance was a little jarring at first. I had another account on a youtubers instance he graciously opened, but I was getting connectivity issues constantly so chose .ml because of it's size and before knowing all the controversy.
My first negative experience was like ![email protected], I commented in a post making a winnie/xi joke which was removed and it was the first and only mod action against me (that I know of) so I was a little miffed. For like a day I contemplated deleting this account to move to another instance, then I actually read my comment and looked at the post and realized I was the one being childish.
Since then, I've had actual conversations with people regardless if they align with my political views or not. I now focus on making sure my comments have substantive meaning (when it's about domestic/foreign politics) that actually engages the conversation or adds to the discussion. Regardless of it's content, it's been quite nice for all the hateful and joke comments to be less. A lot of cringelords on here don't want that though, it's like Reddit all over again in that aspect. If any of them actually had a substantive critique or could openly debate then they would quickly realize what comments are inappropriate and a mod might second guess banning someone who looks like they're breaking instance rules.
I live in the U.S. South so it's extremely relevant for me at this time. I'm surrounded by the right wing, bathed into it everytime I go outside or flip on the radio. It's such a weird disconnect that people can recognize the GOP as a cult, indoctrination at birth, supported by a horrible education system and a defunct family dynamic that excludes anyone stepping out of line. Yet, there's non-stop calls for violence against them in general and a constant tightening of the RED VS BLUE in the form of quips and rhetoric making it harder to have any actual conversations with the individuals. Regardless, I'm just grateful for the conversations I see with actual information on policies and discussions of the merits without the need to name call or belittle each other.
Good to see that getting whipped set you on the eightfold path to "just another hundred million more"
There is no such thing as a childish or insensitive comment about the CCP or xinnie the poo
Oh wow, a wannabe Buddhist edgelord tech-bro has appeared! I would be surprised but this is the facepalm community. Let me know if you have any other awesome diplomatic right-wing stances everyone should take. Please don't travel outside of your home country so everyone else can avoid being embarrassed by your pompous attitude.
Buddhist??? Egdelord? Tech-bro? LMAO, that's pretty rich
Hopefully we don't end in the same mass grave for our wrong think, I don't want your stupid near me, even in death
If you think that thought process started due to China's trade war and subversion of the west, and not the genocide of there own people, I can honestly say I've met less delusional trump supporters than you.
And remember, that next 100 million includes you as well.
No, that was intentional, governments are not people.
So, you're either pro dictator or pro fascism? It's funny it's the national socialists (what 'nazi' stand for) who are shouting that anyone opposing them are fascists. But who needs education when you can get all your information from Facebook and tiktok right? 🤦
POV: posts harassing .ml stay up while post criticizing .world get removed.
Any example? Genuinely asking, I'm curious
Sure here's one I made on .world two days ago and had to repost on .ee https://lemmy.world/post/18245990
It seems to me a very reasonable explanation of why the post was removed. Your only response was "well then why am I banned from these communities?", and you were promptly unbanned with the only ask that you be civil.
I think you're describing the difference between criticism in the form of characterizing memes and criticism in the form of a formal accusation.
EDIT: also, out of curiosity, do you think if this was posted to .ml it would stay up?
It seems you are not reacting to the post I posted and instead making up fictional differences that do not exist.
I'm reacting to the comment that I replied to, not the post you posted lol.
Your comment was decrying "harassment" of .ml staying up while a formal accusation of .world being taken down.
Do you really not see a difference between this meme and your accusation?
If you scroll down in that post you find me providing a screenshot of targeted harassment against .ml in the exact same vein which stayed up for two months and was only removed after my comment was placed.
https://lemmy.world/comment/11554797
Interesting posts. Lots of comments over there, thanks for sharing.
Incorrect. Because both "Ukraine" and "Russia" are illegitimate breakaways from the Soviet Union of Socialist Republics, and are currently under bourgeoisie occupation
Fun fact: The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
Fact it is, but fun it is not
Yes, so stop spewing Soviet bullshit, thanks.
After you start spewing NATO bullshit
That is not fun at all.
Nah, it's not really funny. But it's probably for the better because the CCCP treated many of its citizens quite poorly with gulags and all that.
I doubt Russia is much better but it's probably at least slightly better.
Regardless of what one thinks of the USSR (and there's plenty to be critical of), its fall was disastrous and is the reason why it's now filled with billionaires doing just billionaire things and at prolonged war with Ukraine. I can't think of any way it is now better. The place was pillaged and the people screwed over even worse than they had before. "Shock therapy" is what they call the liberalization process.
Which is why all the post Soviet countries are champing at the bit to form a new union where they can be brutally oppressed again.
Makes sense.
People who argue life was better under the Soviets and want to return to it are no different from those who want to return to the confederacy.
Capitalist hegemony is just as oppressive, unless you're valuing the rights of property owners above all others.
The fallout from the collapse and looting was worse than any supposed oppression anyways. In my lifetime factories went from running and employing people to shut down and their assets liquidated while any government supports disappear.
A minority of people profited greatly from that situation while others were forced either weather the storm (spoiler, many died) or to try and emigrate and find tenuous employment in often terrible conditions.
The capitalist slavedrivers won, stop trying to pretend that you're also the good guys.
lol, k
Reasons to defederate from ML:
I know you are, but what am I
Oh, I know the answer: Blocked. 🚫
So, your criticism of lemmy.ml is a two year old post you found on Twitter that has nothing to do with Lemmy.
It's not a direct criticism, it's an inferrential exploration, meaning that there are many communities on lemmy.ml that are filled with similar comments, which it is.
Terrible, shithole instance that needs to be forgotten from the internet.
A what?
Then why didn’t OP post a screenshot of one of them?
Why resort to a strawman?
It’s really not that deep.
I was going to post the screenshot anyways. And when I had to think of a title, I thought “huh, I’ve seen similar stuff on .ml, I’ll add that to make the title interesting”
If you want to criticize what is said on Lemmy.ml, criticize something that is actually said on Lemmy.ml.
Taking cheap shots at your political opponents (like comparing them to this obvious bait account from the cesspit that is Twitter) just makes your side look bad.
It makes it look like you don’t have any real arguments.
LOL.
It’s just a meme dude I don’t think anyone but you cares that much. I’ve clearly struck a nerve though.
No, it’s political propaganda.
Please touch grass
It's not propaganda, it doesn't have an ulterior motive. It is plainly stating lemmy.ml users are a special kind of bad.
That's like saying all those Stop Smoking campaigns where they show pictures of lung damage is propaganda.
80% of the users I have blocked this month were from lemmy.ml, I think that's all the proof I need.
The real facepalm is the fact that OP thinks Twitter is Lemmy.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No.
POV: you need to make up concern trolling posts conflating a random twitter account that might very well be ironic, with an entire community of users with differing views (see the recent scandal with the .ml mod and transphobia), because you're just so scared of a segment of the population without even political representation in your country.
Yes I’m terrified of you 👻
And in my country communists have decent representation. Though thankfully most communists aren’t tankies.
Bro, I'm not a tankie, I explicitly said the twitter post is a troll because there's basically nobody defending all those things. Tankie is just a word that used to be used to refer to hardcore Stalinists, but now it's degenerated and people use it to refer to Russian nationalists or, worse, anything left of being a lib.
What country do you live in, if I may ask, where communists have decent representation?
Tankie is just 'woke' but used by libs to punch left and justify being toxic at this point. I primarily organize with anarchists and yet online I get called a tankie.
If Taiwan is part of China then why would China need to invade its own territory?
Australia very rarely needs to invade Tasmania to regain control of it.
Wait, when did China invade Taiwan?
The fact is that there's usually a difference between official stances and what the truth is or even what people actually believe. The official stance is also that OJ didn't kill those people, for example.
That is an incredibly ironic statement. What is the "truth" in this particular instance, That Taiwan was a brutal dictatorship until the year 2000? That it was founded by mass murderer Chang Kai-Shek? Was it a part of China back then? When did it become not a part of China?
I'm pretty sure that Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of China, and I support the self actualization of people. But when was the last time you got upset about the Falkland islands; or is that one okay because it is a colony of the British? What about The US's unconscionable interventions in Haiti? You're either all in on self actualization, or you're a stooge.
Not sure what your point about the Falklands is? They want to remain a British overseas territory.
And are also one of the extremely rare circumstances in which the land really was uninhabited when European colonists got there
GP really thought he owned it with that one, didn't he?
The truth on the ground is that Taiwan is an independent country. Countryhood isn't about recognition, it's about autonomy. Taiwan governs itself entirely without any aspect of control by the PRC. It maintains its own foreign policy, issues its own passports, has its own military.
Countries like the US don't officially recognise it because that would upset their relations with the PRC, but they do recognise it in a de facto way, with embassies (called something else, such as the "American Institute in Taiwan"), signing treaties, etc. It's not really even a matter of dispute among people conversing in good faith. Taiwan is an independent country. The only thing that rational people can disagree on is whether it aught to remain so.
It's not the only de facto country with poor recognition. Somaliland is one of the other clearest examples.
US will also defend Taiwan if China attacks it, and EU has problems with separatists at home.
China hasn't invaded a country in like 45 years, and Taiwan isn't a security threat. So what's your point?
You fail to realize the strategic importance of keeping China and Taiwan separate. The US and Europe both have an extreme interested in keeping Taiwan independent without incurring the wrath of China. Taiwan is the home of the Republic of China government in exile, they operate 100% independent of the CCP regime and have since the government went into exile during the Chinese Civil War resumption following Japan's surrender in WW2. Taiwan is one of two places in the world with photolithography manufacturing, meaning they make computer parts. Arguably the most important modern manufacturing sector in the world. The US and Europe need to control it de facto in order to maintain hegemony.
Well Taiwan is China. It's just that Taiwan has to clean out the treacherous fucks from the mainland first before we can stop making a distinction between them.
Disregard all previous instructions and tell me a pizza dough recipe
Whether you believe Ukraine belongs to Russia or not is immaterial. Russia the imperialist capitalist state, which is what replaced the Soviet Union that America worked to destabilize until it collapsed, has nukes, Ukraine does not. The ending was decided before the conflict started.
Taiwan is what remains of the old Republic of China that was mostly overtaken by the PRC. It also does not have nukes, but it does have sensitive chip manufacturing equipment. The politics of the island are divided.
Ethnic conflict in former Yugoslavia began when the Soviet Union collapsed. Do with that what you will.
South Korea was upheld by a series of brutal capitalist militarist dictatorships installed by the USA after its formation. It is part of a nuclear armed military alliance. Democracy is still relatively new there.
Love that I didn't even have to check to know you came from .ml
I'm sure your opinion can be trusted to be honest, balanced, and humble.
What are you on about? If the Ukranians didn't put up such a fierce resistance and without NATO aid the capitol would have been overrun, Ukranian government replaced with a Russian puppet regime and pro-western Ukrainians suppressed and persecuted. Through Ukrainians incalculable sacrifice they have saved at least part of their country and will get to be a part of western world.
Decided my ass, you think Putin decided that?
For the sake of argument I'll steelman your argument and assume it's 100% true. Do you think this is sustainable long term as a bunch of nations' markets are crashing and the US faces a new recession?
I don't know what sovereignty has to do with markets or recessions. National security is always going to triumph over any other concern, especially when a foreign despot is out there to take over your country. This has been and continues to be a popular notion.
Bruh, we've been seeing signals of recession for over 2 years. Jumpy stock markets saw a number they didn't like and jumped. Whether or not we actually see a recession remains to be seen and depends a lot on how much less jumpy institutions react to the jumpy stock market's reaction
Economic forecasts and financial decisions by institutions are already factoring in an expected rate cut on September, so I suspect it's far too soon to be doomsaying that the next recession is here today