[Mega thread] - Biden ends bid for presidency
Biden announced he's ending his bid for the presidency via X (formerly twitter).
Sources:
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Biden announced he's ending his bid for the presidency via X (formerly twitter).
Sources:
Any moment now, the 'don't vote for Biden' group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn't Harris, they'll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.
Anything but stop the dictator and his plan to commit genocide against Latinos and queer people.
Even if Trump wasn't going to do awful things, I can't stand his stupid face or his stupid voice or his stupid stupidity. That's enough to vote for someone who'll beat him.
I didn't want to believe it but they're already in the comments. We need to be vocal. Kamala is a great candidate.
'Beating the Republican Fascist agenda' is a great candidate. I don't really care how that is spelled on the ballot.
Of course they are. They started when it was just rumored that Biden would drop out.
Most of the biden haters i know on the left are upset about his support for israel. Harris has been much more critical of the genocide. We'll just have to see.
I didnt want to vote for biden, but was still going to vote blue no matter who. Im glad i dont have to vote for genocide anymore.
Until Harris fucks up terribly in public and jeopardizes her campaign, I won't be advocating for her replacement. I never said "don't vote Biden." I said "run somebody better." Keeping Trump out of office is more important to me than living in this country and I love where I live. I'm hopeful that Harris can win the trust of the people and prevent my having to relocate (and a bunch of other bad shit).
I'm really hoping if Harris still has to be on the ticket that she'll stay VP. It would be nice to have a decent prez option.
But I'll be voting anti trump either way.
It would also be nice not to live on a burning planet controlled by decrepit rich psychopaths but I don't think either of us will be getting what we want.
I'll still vote for whatever the democrats decide to run, of course, since minimizing or maximizing fascists' access to government is the only question on the ballot this election.
Why?
I may be a weirdo, but I was on the "I'd consider not voting for Biden." but I'm currently more interested in Harris. Nowhere near as bad of a track record as Biden had. From being racist, to supporting rapists getting into the Supreme Court, to backing massive removal of constitutional rights.
Harris' record isn't perfect, and while I'm in California, I don't recall any bills she pushed/voted for as Senator that was anything as bad as the USA PATRIOT Act. I don't like her record as our AG at all, but Senator is a different story.
If she picks a good VP pick, I'd be down. I'm wanting maybe Newsom, but that's just he biggest Democrat I know, as he's my Governor.
Edit: I don't know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for oresident it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state's EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn't decide the president otherwise we'd never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I'm looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.
Nah, I said I would support her if that’s what it came down to.
She needs a good VP though with her record.
That debate and the putin -Zelensky trump-Harris mixups so short together.
Pull in Buttigieg and you have a white male as a backup to calm people down and maybe pull in the gay vote.
I understand how the last sentence could be seen the wrong way, but it’s the cynical reality.
Harris isn't ideal, but she's an improvement. She's less on board with genocide than Bidenyahu, and she can fog a mirror.
Vote for Harris. Don't make the party regret listening.
Hi, I think you've seen me in enough places saying not to vote for Biden.
Go vote for Harris.
Absolutely they will. When the gEnOciDe stopped working/got boring, they switched to- oLd!
Give it a day, they’ll have their reasons not to vote for her too.
The reason we haven't seen it happen yet is that they weren't prepared for this. They need to make some memes and talking points, make sure everyone is on the same page. Give it a day or so, and we'll start seeing a strangely concerted effort against Harris.
You wanna know how to shut those people up? Replace First Past The Post voting with something like Ranked Choice voting. Then they would have to make their own party and show us how it's done. (No spoiler effect to)
Cool strawman you're beating up. I think the majority of us that didn't want Biden is because he didn't have a good path to victory. We didn't want to just stand by and watch the train wreck happen. Harris isn't much better, but at least she is better, and I will be on board with that of that's who is chosen. I would rather see Whitmer be on the top of the ticket though.
Yeah I like Harris less than Biden. Sad day tbh.
The criterion is very simple: Don't vote for genocide committers, enablers or planners. That excludes Biden and Trump.
If the Dems manage to produce a non genocide loving candidate, then vote vote vote and drag everyone who will vote for the non genocide candidate to the polling station.
An aside, I hate that this was posted to twitter before it was posted to Biden's own website or the White House's website first.
WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH ALL MY BIDEN HATS, FLAGS, T-SHIRTS, AND STICKERS?!
/Just kidding - not in a cult 😅
As a very vocal Biden hater I'll stomach Kamela far better and would be thrilled for someone else
While not a Biden hater (but also not a supporter), this is how I feel too.
Stomach isn't enough. If you're not actively campaigning and donating for her--or whomever the candidate is--then you may as well have been a Republican.
EDIT: Nevermind. Clearly the hivemind wants to stay in our armchairs. Who can blame us, right? We'll continue this conversation in November. I hope it's not I-told-you-so.
And doing what you're doing discourages people from voting.
You're essentially doing the same exact thing in the top comment up above.
In what way? I'm saying insulting people is not a way to get them to campaign.
Then why are you insulting people here by making up a strawman argument and insinuating that the people who don't support unpopular candidates are somehow rooting for Trump? This is like the DNC's 2016 arrogance all over again and look how that turned out for the country.
It's still not a strawman argument that people who were posting all over Lemmy that no one should vote for Biden are now posting in this very thread that people shouldn't vote for Harris either.
Also, I'm not trying to get people who aren't planning on voting for Harris to campaign for Harris. That would be silly. So I have no problem with anything that I said.
Squid, I appreciate your contributions to putting content on the platform, honestly, but I couldn't be any less interested in that take. My history speaks for itself, and anybody can read it who cares to. Everybody must vote. I don't think I could be any clearer about that. I was a staunch advocate for Biden, and I'll be a staunch advocate for Harris, Newsom, Whitmer, or anyone else who carries the Democratic party forward.
But every single one of them polls down from Biden. To the extent any of the whining on social media since the debate hasn't been astroturfed, advocacy for Biden to drop out resulted in this news, and it means that the party has now voluntarily given up the single biggest proven advantage a candidate historically has in a presidential election: being the sitting president.
I'm encouraging people to vote, but you know as well as I do that people who were going to vote anything-blue were going to vote for Biden no matter what anybody said on almost-reddit. Harris has to move the needle further than that, and that means that all the armchair it'll-be-better-if-he-drops-out analysts now need to step the fuck up if they want this news to mean anything other than "The DNC just handed Trump 2024."
Everybody knows that the kids screaming "oh if the candidate were just younger, the Dems would have it in a landslide" were full of shit, and now we're about to see just how big a deficit we're actually running. I'd love to be wrong! I'd be delighted, ecstatic, beside myself to discover that next weeks polls put all these convention front-runners up 10 points on Trump. But I've studied this stuff, and it doesn't take a veteran pollster to realize it doesn't work that way. Actual campaigning has to happen.
If you cared enough to want Biden out, but not quite enough to want Harris to win, then you were going to hold your nose in the ballot box either way and it doesn't fucking matter: Trump would still win. That's not discouraging. That's statistics.
Telling people that if they don't go out and campaign, they might as well be a Republican is just counterproductive. Insulting people is just never a way to get them to do what you think they should do.
I don't know why so many people think that's the right tack. Have you ever been insulted into doing something?
The few words of hyperbole is what you took away? I expected better, but I guess that's on me.
The few words are the problem. And I doubt people are viewing it as hyperbole.
The "hive mind" probably just can't figure out what the fuck you're even trying to say. So, what, everybody who doesn't actively campaign for their preferred candidate just supports fascism by default? I'm guessing your stance isn't anywhere near that stupid, because that is an extraordinarily stupid stance. So maybe you'd have a better reception if you clarified your point.
TIL I'm a Republican.
And also that you're a jerk.
We win if we get enough votes, and every vote counts.
Anything beyond voting is just gravy.
I guess the poor and disabled and people who are too busy with struggling to survive are secretly republicans now.
"Hey I have a weak immune system, so I have to work from home and that limits my income and my free time."
"I smell a Republican!"
With people like you it shows why Trump won culturally even if he doesn't win the election. He turned a substantial part of the vocal Democrats into Blue-MAGA-hats. It is the same attitude that attacked people who pointed out the mere fact, that Biden is not mentally fit for office anymore. If the Blue-MAGA wasn't so big, Biden could have left the field to a younger and better candidate half a year ago.
So you think calling everyone that does not campaign and donate to the Democrats a secret Republican is somehow normal?
To me it is the same cultish bullshit like the blatant denial of Bidens old age and mental decline. It is the same "follow your leader no matter what" insanity that is apologetic for Trump on the other side. So yes, this kind of behaviour is MAGA behaviour and if it is done for the Dems instead of the Reps it is blue MAGA
This has got to be the most brain dead shit I’ve read in a minute 😵💫
Absolutely not. I will spend my time and energy and money supporting my local Democrats. The national level isn’t as important to me because Republicans in my state have veto-proof majorities in both houses and they hold the governorship. Regardless of what happens at the national level, implementation of Project 2025 began in my state about 3 years ago.
Boooooo. We need to unite around [insert DNC candidate] NOW.
Nope
You couldn't browbeat us into voting for Biden and you've started it right up with Harris? And now it's not just voting it's working the phones and door to door campaign? Am I expected to get airfare to PA too? What do I tell them when they ask where I live?
People should support her campaign to the utmost they can, and for some people that's right here, with their internet connection.
I was vocally saying biden would never drop out and we just had to swallow the poison pill. I was dead wrong. I will be voting for [insert DNC candidate] and will be excited to do it!
Idk about excited, but yes, unironically.
Harris ain’t perfect, but she’s not on the same mental state as Biden is.
He did a lot of good, but he just wasn’t there anymore, he’s getting pretty old and just had the most stressful job in the world for 4 years.
Plus he just backed Israel through every thing.
She’ll probably do the same, but I KNOW that he’ll do it.
Tbf I changed my mind to voting for him after he finally managed to get Ukraine more aid, so idk how everyone else will go.
Hopefully she grabs a good VP to calm people down
While I don't think Kamala is the best the Democratic party has to offer (I would have much preferred Biden endorsing Hakeem Jeffries, for example), I'm over the moon that he's finally decided to step aside. And you know what? Harris is better than Biden in pretty much every metric that matters. I was going to vote for the Dem nominee either way, but him stepping aside in favor of a better candidate has me feeling all kinds of relieved.
I can only speak for myself, but yes.
It's finally over. Now get in someone who can beat Trump.
Who exactly?
Senator Mark Kelly, he can do this
He flipped AZ to blue
He is an astronaut, all American, former servicemen
He can get red votes and blue alike
Isn't senator Kelly the one that created the mutant registration act?
Yea, but who cares about those sub-human mutants.
Ok, he is probably the best name anybody has thrown out.
Hmm...not bad. Not amazing name recognition, but that could be remedied.
Having Gabby campaign for/with him, especially after the DJT assassination attempt, could be beneficial, too. (Or could look like a disgusting political plot, but that's really all our politics.)
Damn that would be a great pick. I'd like to see AOC but Kelly probably has more broad appeal with all the things you mentioned.
Kelly or Mayor Pete seem like the best options.
Buttigieg and AOC ticket? That would be the youth candidacy. Kelly and Buttigieg or vice versa would be more centrist but probably be the most robust candidacy.
I hate to say it, but in this political climate and with the threat of Trump, the best shot is probably two young-ish white guys.
Actually that's not a bad idea at all
This is…not a bad idea!
I highly doubt Kamala will want to pull a sitting Democratic senator away from the 50/50 Senate given the elections coming up.
I think there is a greater chance that she picks one of the governors. My pick is J.B. Pritzker.
That is true, I really was just spitballing, I’ll have to look into JB Pritzker, I’m regrettably unfamiliar with him
yeah... i don't think harris is the answer....
If Harris is in, she can use the money already donated. Otherwise they have to start from scratch.
So it's almost guaranteed Harris will be in. Who they pick for VP is the question.
Can they still keep her as VP and put someone else on as prez?
I find this so insane. People talk about who gets to keep the money, who has which rich asshole routing for them, which strategy has been successfull in the past, like always setting up the current president for reelection...
We need to focus on who has actually inspiring policies and ideas. We need to focus on these, because that is what the Reps lack. All they offer is "not the Dems" while the policies they propose are actually unpopular with many of their base. And the whole "Not Trump" strategy of Biden just fell apart.
Is there noone in the Democratic party who can actually come up with a coherent vision of the future and inspire people to follow it?
This is why I think Pete Buttigieg should throw his hat in if they do have a primary. He just had a Bill Maher interview that just went viral because he knows how to talk to the common people. I think his visions are inspiring, he’s done a lot of work for his department, and he isn’t afraid to walk across party lines and go on Republican shows to talk about the real problems. He’s smart enough to smash Trump in a debate, calling out all his lies, and even if Trump is too scared to debate him, he has no problem laying out Trump’s lies elsewhere coherently and cognitively.
Harris/Whitmer is my bet
On the one hand: "you can't have her she's ours!". On the other, she's out in 26 regardless, and she's pretty good so maybe we can share with the rest of the country.
No, they don't. The Democratic Party can give the donated money to whoever is the candidate. Not sure where people are getting that.
Edit: After reading up, I am mistaken kind of. If Harris is still the VP candidate, the money could be used. Otherwise a PAC would have to be setup to funnel money to the candidate...maybe. Bloomberg was simply able to transfer his campaign funds directly to the DNC since it was part of his campaign money...even though the vast majority of it was his own money.
The money Biden has raised directly however can only go to the people that were on his ticket at the time the donation was made
That's correct, but nearly none of the money is the direct donation stuff - it's almost in PACs which are (due to a legal fiction) entirely independent of the candidate.
There are still more restrictions however on spending on other candidates and they would have to act like any other PAC, only helping via donating/running ads in support of (but importantly not directly by) any other candidate.
The $100 million warchest belongs to the Biden/Harris campaign, not the Democratic Party. They are separate organizations, and Biden/Harris only answers to Biden and Harris.
The DNC has its own funds of course, but nowhere near as much. And DNC funds are supposed to be shared with multiple Democrats, not just the one running for president.
And notably even if Biden/Harris were supporting the alternative, they're an outside group. They can spend like a super PAC, but can't pay bills or do direct advertising.
I just don't think she can beat big orange. I'm not saying she shouldn't .... but I don't know ... doubtful
July 11th poll:
Also possibly key:
You can expect Harris's numbers to drop given she's vulnerable to almost every criticism Biden was except age and the fact that the Trump campaign has already been preparing to attack her.
And they’ve already made anti-Harris ads, which I heard on live CNN rn that they are already running them.
He was a prosecutor for years, so she has plently of oratory chops, and shes 20 years younger than trump to boot.
Her only liability is the she is a she and there are plently of sexist fucks out there. Thats it.
You forgot that she's a POC and there are also tons of racists fucks out there.
Even before getting to her actual credentials (some great, others really not), people will be assholes. I still have hope that she, as a former prosecutor, could mop the floor with the fascists.
On the plus side, racist and sexist heavily overlap.
I don't particularly like her, then again I detest nearly all politicians. That being said, I'm more motivated to vote, that's for certain. I didn't mind Biden, but it felt like elder abuse lol. He's been better than anyone in my lifetime. Good God, I'd rather have her than Hilary as the first woman in the spot. Biden was just hard to watch and that position needs someone that will have to live with the consequences of the decisions in office. Will be curious to see who else puts their name in. 4 years ago he said he wouldn't run again and he seems to be keeping that promise too. If they were clever, they'd put Biden as VP or as an advisor.
Half of America lost it's mind when Obama was elected, and we're still dealing with the fallout from that lovely dose of racism. There's no way Kamala could win in this country.
Obama won. And then won again. Stop pumping up the reactionaries as some unstoppable force. They're a minority and have been on a long term losing streak.
like all that aside, a lot of folks aren't appreciative of her background as a cop... but yeah that's a cherry to what you already mentioned
And a lot of swing voters will probably like that she was a prosecutor, a "law and order" type.
I think most of the "law and order" types might have a bigger problem with her being a black woman.
She aint "black" as much as "brown." Its an incredibly stupid hair to split, but indians are generally considered a "model minority" by racists, so it will likely hurt her but not as much as you may think.
still the other half was enough to elect him
She'll have to be. Anybody else would be starting from square one, and that's a luxury we don't have right now.
Harris 2024 babyyyyy
This late in the game, it's almost certainly Harris. Probably picks a swing state governor like Whitmer or Shapiro.
Or Mark Kelly. Regardless, it's probably going to be a white male from a swing state to appeal to as broad of an electorate as possible.
Gavin is probably the least popular option of any names floated. I don't know who likes him, apparently some people do, but it's not anywhere near a majority of the country.
On top of that, you can add that there is no advantage to getting a candidate from California. This is why I never understood Harris as the VP pick. Ideally, you get someone from a swing state like Whitmer.
https://www.newsweek.com/gavin-newsom-chances-beating-donald-trump-1918700
Literally any straight white man center-right democrat born after 1968 would wipe the floor with trump.
And before anyone jumps down my throat, that’s not what I want. I want president Cortez. But presidents are chosen by money and by about 10,000 generically stupid swing voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Voters in Michigan that voted for Whitmer.
Fantastic point.
Im not american but i wholly support AOC4POTUS2028.
Or for a more catchy media bite: "A-O-C for the Presidency"
It's not over... It's joever!
Honestly the biggest problem Biden had was that all his funding dried up after the debate.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/biden-fundraising.html
Regardless of who you think would win in a vacuum you gotta acknowledge this.
Bernie 2024, even if he dies of a heart attack first day his appointments would change the country for good and I don’t trust any party politicians on Palestine.
I'm hoping for a Kamala/AOC ticket.
Biden just endorsed Kamala, so that much is likely. The VP will probably be one from a shortlist of 5 or so governors/senators from swing states.
Maybe, but then the swing state could end up with a GOP governor. That's one reason why VPs are often from safe seats, eg Harris, Pence, Biden, Palin, Quayle...
The shortlist I've seen thrown around a lot so far is pretty much Whitmer, Shapiro, Cooper, and Kelly. Maybe someone like Beshear, but I'd call that slightly lower odds than the others. I think they will probably lean away from a 2 woman ticket too
I think you could add Pritzker to that list
This is why I'm really hoping they don't pick Shapiro. Having three democratic governors in a row is a fluke in PA and I don't think we'd avoid getting a Republican next.
That would be cool but I suspect it will be a white, straight man to balance out the ticket for the racists and sexists. Maybe someone from a swing state.
Aka what Biden was to Obama
Yes more pandering from the DNC to the far right individuals who would never vote for a Democrat to begin with.
Pandering to the right, yes - but this is just how coalitions work. Obama's ability to appeal to rank and file white workers in places like Michigan is part of how he won. A lot of Obama voters in those states voted for Trump.
Not everyone on the right is an ideological zealot (even if those are the most visible and make up the base). Being able to pick up some votes among "center-right" voters is a long-standing electoral strategy for the Democrats.
As an outside observer I find it hard to believe that a place as right-wing as the US would elect a woman of colour as president. Isn't that double red rag to the nutjob bulls?
Most of them were already voting trump anyway
We elected Obama already, and the people who are so racist/sexist that they wouldn't vote for Harris are mostly voting Trump. Plus, her being a woman means she can go way harder on Abortion, which is a winning strategy atm since support for abortion rights is insanely high and Republicans are actively trying to ban it completely.
Hot damn I had forgotten about a new vp pick in the middle of all this. AOC won't be it but needs to be.
Is AOC old enough?
Yes she'd be 35 before taking office.
She will be before the election and long before the inauguration.
Ok, 1000 people replied, thank you, you can stop now lol
Yes, she'll be 35 by election day.
She will be by inauguration which is all that matters.
She will be by the election.
She will be by the time she'd take the oath.
that would be great, but there's no way they double down on minorities and women in the same ticket. get ready for a biden jr as the VP.
Automatic loss.
Seeing AOC oddly shill for Biden before he dropped out.. which I'd expect from Pelosi, Schumer & Schiff, but not from her. She may actually be trying to get the VP spot.
She just did the calculus that Biden was our best shot, due to a whole shitton of different factors from Biden's support among elderly voters, union support, money raised, polls being pretty crap for a few cycles now, shit like that.
Now there will be logistical challenges, we have a lot of uncertainty ahead. She wanted to avoid that until we got some better answers.
Biden bros: No one has a plan if Biden drops out. Everyone else: Here is our plan. Biden bros still: No one has a plan if Biden drops out.
Plan was open convention where delegates decide.
Yes, that's an excellent example of uncertainty.
What is better... knowing Biden would lose to Trump, or being uncertain who the delegates will choose before the convention?
Nobody knew for sure Biden would lose and nobody knows for sure that whoever is picked will win. It was high uncertainty all along.
If that's what you call a "plan", never manage anything, ever.
Or you could read her arguments, which were direct and pragmatic. She was talking about how difficult this would be logistically, and that it would have been better to do 6 months ago, you know, when the progressive wing of the party raised the issue.
AOC was "shilling" for some consistency, backbone and party unity out of a pragmatic need to beat back fascism. Now that this choice has been made, I'm betting she will continue with the same intent.
Further, Bernie and AOC are rather well aware that the progressive wing of the party would likely be blamed for "party disunity" if Biden stayed in and lost. They will not do anything to let the DNC scapegoat their caucus.
Biden was going to lose and he was making other Democrats lose. What did you expect the party to do, unite behind losing to Trump?
AOC was prob smart, saw Biden didn't believe he was going to lose and saw an opportunity before it played out.
Which is hilarious because Pelosi, Schumer, and Schiff were all against Biden continuing in the race...
AOC understands politics and thinks things through, that's it.
AOC has always been considered an outsider to Democrat leadership. She prob was thinking things through, but I don't think it is because she thought Biden was going to win.
I agree it was likely more about party unity and not biting the hand that feeds you.
Imo she's trying to shield progressives from being the scapegoat, like how we got the blame for dem dysfunction in '16.
Politics is about getting the things you want, not dunking on people that disagree with you on a couple of things. You gotta compromise with people to get what you want. People feel like being uncompromising is somehow admirable, but in politics it means you get nothing. MAGAs are uncompromising, and they get a lot of likes on social media for it, but they've accomplish exactly nothing after winning the House in 2022.
Biden has been good for the progressive wing of the party, and they may not get as good of a deal with Harris as they did with Biden. They will have to negotiate compromises with someone new and may not get as much.
So do you rather politicians compromising and getting something to benefit you, or grandstanding and accomplishing nothing except providing a small amount of entertainment for you?
Biden has seriously hurt the party. If they enthrone Kamala without doing some balanced process to have her debate or compete against anyone else, and she somehow beats Trump then... I fully expect Republicans to take the House & Senate because of the damage Biden did to the party.
Politics is about compromise. I fully agree with you on that. To get things passed, you actually have to call up Republicans and ask them if they'll try to work with you and what their vision is, and what they'd like to do... and try to come to an agreement.
AOC has likely done the same here. She saw an opportunity to get something or to help progressives in some way, which required taking a backseat for a little while, but ultimately she'll get something in return. I get it and understand that. It was just surprising.
The DNC & Clinton seriously damaged the Democrat party in 2016, and Biden has restored some consistency, but it shifted significantly the right after that. Lest not forget Biden gleefully supporting a genocidal maniac and sending weapons to kill thousands of children. Its pretty sad when Democrats argue that more children would have died under Trump, so that somehow makes it okay.
Maybe she had better political acumen and knew he'd do better.
How can one know how well a candidate will do in a future election?
Maybe she saw an opportunity
I think bernie could wipe the floor with any sitting senator of any age he comes up against but with bidens age and recent performance there is no way you will convince everyone with bernies age factor.
It's
Joever
Biden endorsed Kamala. =)
Kamala has a similar approval rating to Biden. If he wasn't viable, neither is she.
Biden wasn't viable because he has cognitive decline. Kamala will mop the floor with Trump in debates.
I would not be at all surprised if Trump refuses to debate her.
I think I remember reading an earlier analysis that says that Trump has no reason to accept debates with any potential new candidate, as it just gives them more visibility.
Absolutely. They had no reason to debate Biden again. They sure as shit won't put him on stage against her, or ANY other candidate.
This would be awesome. Give Harris a two hour uninterrupted prime time spot to let the former prosecutor make a case against electing a convicted felon and follow it with 2 hours of the oldest candidate in US history rambling. 😆
I'd love to see it. Prosecutor going after a convicted felon and rapist sounds like a great time.
Trump will visibly age on stage like Palpatine from the absolute roasting Harris would do to him
Charitable to think that Trump would agree to a debate with Harris.
Why wouldn’t he? Is he to old and scared to cope?
Both candidates are experiencing decline, and if Biden were elected and incapable of doing the job it would have resulted in a Harris Presidency anyway. It's such an odd thing to object over. We've had presidents in decline before and the country kept running just fine, (FDR, Reagan.)
Biden did a fine job in office, I'm especially proud of his union support, and his policies were spot on in my opinion. To throw him under the bus like this seems really shitty.
Biden made the right decision for the country.
Do you think debates are really going to sway voters at this point? Like the people considering Trump don't already know what a blowhard he is?
Debates can energize the voter base which is what we need right now. And who knows, the debates might even convince some people.
People don't know much about Kamala yet. That will now change very dramatically. Biden had hit his ceiling, a known quantity that everyone already knew very well. Harris has room to climb.
That's something I think some people just missed when Biden dropping out was debated. Of course, the other potential picks were polling behind him at that point. But he was showing clear signs that he had peaked, and would only be able to fight not to drop further. His most powerful argument had been not being Trump - which any candidate can wield. And any candidate with charisma and the ability to speak, debate and campaign has a lot of room to move up, whereas Biden was fighting not to move down.
To be fair, most people really don't know much about her yet. She's mostly stayed in the shadows as a VP. That could change, for better or worse, when they know her better.
This is a hilarious misreading of polling data. Kamala may not win, but her percentage chance to win might be double or more of what Bidens was.
People I follow were estimating Biden at 10-15% by the time the election rolled around. All the models assume that a candidate would run a normal campaign. Something that he is not capable of doing.
The argument that I've seen made is that her approval rating will rise if she becomes the candidate.
I'm not sure how realistic that is, but it's the one that was made.
As much as I think that he was too old for the position… JFC. If the Dems don’t nominate Kamala Harris as his replacement, the entire Democratic nomination will be filled with so much infighting that they will lose the faith of their electorate and the next election.
If only more Dems were left-of-centre such that Bernie was a viable option. Unfortunately almost all of them are right-lite.
I'm going to donate to DNC to signal that this was a good idea
Welp they must have looked at the data and saw Kamala or someone else would do significantly better. Hope they're right.
The dnc has famously been able to do that
Well known for picking the strongest candidate.
It's basically 50/50 with either Biden or Harris at the top of the ticket. Everything is in the margin of error, and polling has been notoriously inaccurate with Trump on the ballot.
So you have to basically ignore the simple Trump vs. Biden or Trump vs. Harris or (Trump vs. anyone else you can think of) numbers because it's pretty much unknown. But the data says a majority (even an majority of Democrats) want someone other than Biden on the ballot at election. BTW a majority of voters also want someone other than Trump on the ballot too.
There's also some data to suggest Trump is making some inroads with young male Black and Hispanic voters. Harris will negate a significant amount of that immediately and potentially even more when the GOP can't resist blowing their racist dog whistles and show voters who they really are.
So it's kinda about looking at the data, but I think a large part of it is simple campaign facts. In times past a Presidential candidate would do two (sometimes three) rallies in two different states per day. And do interviews while traveling between campaign events. Trump isn't capable of that pace. Biden most certainly isn't capable of that pace. Harris can do that. We really haven't seen a 100% balls to the wall presidential campaign in a while because it's been two old guys in the last election and in this one... until now.
Remember Biden also had to do the job of being President of the country while also campaigning. That's a lot of work for even someone young, and Biden is so very old. Sure Harris is VP, but that's mostly just getting some briefings (too keep up on events in case she might need to take over as Prez) and breaking ties in the Senate (which probably won't be needed between now and election day). She can devote almost all of her time to campaigning while Biden couldn't.
I hope so and if true we have to trust the data. My vote is solid blue based on virtues and most policies. There's probably a lot of others like me.
#herturn
Honestly… such a class act!
It’s like pulling a reverse Nixon.
In 2016 it was a "Vote Against Trump Regardless Of Who It Is". It's shaping up to be that again, but this gives me hope that maybe we'll have someone we can vote for that we like... Even if just a little. Harris is no Obama in charm, but it's a step in the right direction.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/21/open-convention-democrats-biden-drop-out/
"How Democrats would pick a new candidate if Biden drops out, step by step"
because the 1968 Democratic Convention went swimmingly – oh, they’re also holding this year’s convention in Chicago again you say? with increased police presence as well?
Well, at least there isn't anything controversial going on overseas that's got the college kids riled up this time /s
Clusterfuck it is, then. Oh boy.
Not really. It'll be Harris. Biden endorsed her and already other potential Dem front-runners are endorsing her. Within in a few days it'll be like she's the incumbent and no one will want to run against her for the same reasons they didn't run against Biden. Plus the additional reason that they don't want to screw up their chances of being her VP pick.
Dumb question. Why didn't they just schedule the convention prior to all deadlines regardless who runs for office? Is there any benefit to meeting so late?
It is before the deadlines but just barely. Typically the candidate is known before the convention, so you already have enough signatures to get on the ballot in every state
It wasn't when they scheduled it. It was after Ohio's deadline. And major parties don't need signatures to put forward candidates.
Not in a general, no. They do in a primary though. In this case, you're right, the candidate would get on the ballot by the delegates voting
So president will be decided by the Sperm Court. Autocorrect definitely not worth fixing
What happens now? Does the DNC pick a replacement or will they be holding a snap primary?
If the DNC of the past is any indication, they'll ignore voters and put up the most boring, uncompelling candidate they can.
Alternatively: they put up the most divisive and cringeworthy candidate they can.
Sorry, Trump's already running as a Republican.
DNC busy trying to get Manchin and Sinema to come back to the fold
Oh man, if they both come back it's just a question of which one is on top of the ticket.
I wanted AOC but her last few posts have been cringe. She's divisive, but that could have worked in her favor. Prob. will be Kamala. I think they should have an open convention & let delegates decide though.
And those of us in the party who aren't right-leaning will get blamed when they lose.
A new canidate will be picked during the DNC on 19-22 august.
Correct.
And Kamala is the most logical choice, because there will be the least amount of legal hurdles, since she was already on the ticket.
And the Republicans already said they are going to mount legal challenges, which can easily lead to SCOTUS deciding the election. So I expect Sanders, AOC and progressives to strongly push for Kamala.
But I fully expect the DNC to push forward some corporate candidate like Bloomberg.
It's going to be interesting.
There are no legal hurdles. The private organization can nominate whomever they want regardless of their votes and their rules.
The legal hurdles are around getting their candidate on state ballots
Nice insight. Democratic Secretaries of State will find a way. But, Republican Secretaries of State will definitely resist.
I want to be of a mind that they made the bed to exclude third parties and now should lie in it. But, perhaps this is an opportunity to change the rules of ballot access for the better.
The legal hurdles aren’t in the nomination, they’re in monies donated directly to the Biden/Harris campaign
The only way money is beholden to a campaign is because a major donor insisted upon it. And, no one is asking for a refund on executive and legislative influence.
pick me
You think the DNC is going to try to push out the centrist, sitting vice president of their party during a presidential election? The vice presidential that aligns with the majority of their constituents, has a huge war chest of money, and is a well know and generally liked member of the party?
The DNC are idiots, but that makes no sense at all.
Mike Bloomberg? He's older than Biden
How is it that states can decide (or whatever the correctt word is) who's on the ballot when the party hasn't even officially nominated a candidate? I know that political parties are separate from election institutions, but it seems very strange. And it seems very early for states to have it set in stone.
I am not a lawyer, but what is clear is that each State sets its own laws. By the constitution, States are in charge of elections.
What I have heard is that Biden has to release his delegates, who are already bound to him. Many states have already had their primaries completed with the Biden/Harris ticket winning.
Sending those electors to the Convention and letting them choose someone else is going to be a grey area.
If they choose Harris, it's pretty sound. When a president steps down, the VP becomes president, so there is definitely precedent and a legal basis.
But if Biden releases his delegates and lets them vote for anyone? That will be challenged and it will go to the supreme court. And SCOTUS is corrupt enough to find some flimsy legal excuse that helps Republicans.
So yeah, that's what I've heard. But I am not an expert.
They can't. The nominee is chosen by the party and then communicated to the states. The states do have deadlines for being on it and this year some organizational genius scheduled the convention after the earliest deadline in Ohio. Ohio has since moved that deadline back, but the structure of the law leaves room for shenanigans so the DNC is moving forward with a virtual vote before the convention.
So legally it should be fine to decide at the DNC?
Yes, with a big asterisk on the "should". The law that pushes the deadline back may theoretically not go into effect until after the deadline is passed, and they paired it with some other campaign finance rules that are probably unconstitutional, so there's an outside chance the whole thing gets struck down.
All that said, the Democrats won't win Ohio for the presidential race. They want to be on the ballot to help turnout for the Democratic senator who's running at the same time. So if they took a risk and lost, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
The new candidate will be picked before then, they were already planning an early roll call vote because the DNC convention is too late for some state deadlines.
August 7 is the deadline. The problem is my state, Ohio. By law, the Democrats must nominate someone in 17 days or be left off the ballot. It's way too fast for a special primary election.
This is certainly going to face legal challenges in red states, too. The orange one will probably run unopposed in states like Florida.
Serious? I haven't even had time to see that. That is the best decision they could have made.
Anything could happen. Most likely is the elected delegates will decide at the convention (edit: when you vote for "Biden," you are basically voting for who the delegates that will elect him will vote for, so you still elected those delegates). Redoing a primary before then would be next to impossible. Takes weeks or months to get signatures to get on the ballot, then you need time to recruit staff to work the polls, etc.
Yup. I would be literally stunned if any state primary has no legal path forward for what to do if a primary candidate drops out before the convention. It could get messy, but this idea that the dems will not have a candidate in some states come November is FUD.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/21/what-next-biden-00170001
Yeah it's the convention where it's made official that a person is the nominee. If he dropped out after the convention... now that would be a mess. But as it is now, the guy that was the presumptive nominee yesterday is not longer the presumptive nominee.
My understanding is they pick a replacement
From my European point of view, i just hope she picks Kelly as her VP. A progressive Astronaut, Ambassador for UNITED24 and someone that knows that we should save us from the ultimate climate collapse...maybe we can get Alexander Gerst here in Germany to do some politics :D
So the back the blue party of law and order will vote for the cop instead of the convicted felon now.
Just like the religious moral right will vote for the actual church attending catholic rather than the guy who doesn't go to church and doesn't know how to hold a bible upright.
They should make Hunter Biden the VP pick, what a glorious troll that would be
I'm not American but want to be in the loop. Media here is saying Kamala Harris is the likely successor. What do people think of her? Is she liked? I assume her actual politics are more or less the same since she was VP.
MICHIGAN is now back in play
"We're in the endgame now"
I see so many suggestions for different people to run in bidens place, and I fear that that may lead to enough disunity for Trump to win an Election
Leaves me curious to see how this will play out
HO-LEE SHI-TUH
Well at least he could graciously withdraw I suppose.
Kelly-Harris or Harris-Kelly.
Either one of those combinations stomps Trump into the pavement.
Honest question.
Now that Biden is out, can any Democrat run for election? Or is Kamala it?
Party before country. Interesting wording.
What if he stepped aside today and Harris could run as the incumbent?
Wow, what a day!
Good video short from Peter Baker at the NYTimes
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000009584698/joe-biden-dropped-out-whats-next.html?smid=url-share
Biden and Bernie would be an amazing ticket
Dumb. All because of a bad night that the media turned into a storm. Real world performance metrics were actually quite good for Joe. The Republican candidate says stuff on par with a semi-comatose baboon every time a microphone is in front of him. Supporters of this are oblivious to how much seething sexism and racism lies just under the surface in the US. This was a big part of how we got into this mess in the first place and why estimates for Hillary's success were so far off. It will be an incredible win if she pulls this off, but it's just not going to happen.
the DNC just threw the election... wow. billionaires really do control our country.
Well congratulations "liberals", bots, propagandists, defeatists. You win. If Trump had beaten Biden, it would have been Biden's fault, along with the party. Now the party gets to share the blame with you. You lot gambled this for the rest of us. Let's hope your bet pays off. Open your wallets and hit the pavement. If you're a real person and you pitched a fit so this would happen, you got what you wanted. Act like it. Your lobbying won you an obligation to campaign. If you were on social media begging for Biden to quit, now you owe the time you spent here to Harris's campaign (or whomever the fuck they nominate).
You bought it. You own it.
Not voting for a prosecutor. Guess it's third party again.
This is so incredibly reckless and foolish. Democrats just handed victory to Trump because they seem incapable of party unity. There is no better candidate waiting in the wings and Biden was polling very competitively against Trump.
He dropped over 2 points to Trump since the debate and I doubt more public appearances from him were gonna help especially since he already committed to another debate. He's outside the margin of error for winning any sunbelt state and losing everywhere in the rustbelt. It's not impossible that he would have won but seems pretty improbable.
It would have taken some big, unexpected developments for him to win at this stage. Especially after the failed assassination attempt invigorated and united Trump's cult further.
It's actually the opposite problem. There's wasn't going to be another debate for Biden to potentially redeem himself. Trump wasn't going to do with another debate with him to give him that chance, why would he? He didn't debate anyone in the primaries, because he didn't need to. He wasn't going to give Biden a chance to prove "it was just a bad night."
But with Harris as the candidate, Trump has to do another debate or he'll look weak. In the next debate Trump will look like the guy that's too old. Which he is, just didn't look that way next to Biden.
I mean, reading between the lines, something else is wrong with biden. His age wasn’t all that helpful in the current situation, and then he gets sick? If he has only Covid, then we were in for 2+ months of a foggy candidate who already had questionable levels of clarity. No, this is not reckless, this is trying to save the election from an almost assured trump win.
The only recklessness I see is waiting til the 11th hour to read the writing on the wall. Someone posted in a different thread that Biden even stated in 2019 that he was only going to run a single term. The party leadership has had 4 years to choose a proper successor but chose party over country instead.
He didn't. He said he saw himself as a transitional candidate, but never outright said single term.
Down 3% is horrible. In swing states, he is losing even worse while Democratic Senators are polling up.
I just don't understand this with a non-felon, non-rapist candidate. Biden and those Democratic Congressional candidates are running on the same platform.
Would have been better if he did this last year, would have allowed for a normal primary, rather than the clustefuck that is going to happen over the next month.
Though even this delayed back out might be what the DNC wanted all along. Primaries in the last two elections showed there are a lot of people who want Bernie or other less-establishment politicians. By waiting so long, they basically get to name whomever they want without pretending they should listen to voters.
“The only thing worse than bad leadership is broken leadership” is a quote from my favorite book, and I can imagine the DNC operating from this perspective. Campaigns and primaries would have broken up the party’s voters, and they might just be banking on whatever call they can make themselves.
If you want lockstep unity you get to be fascist, too. Just like the republicans.
The best thing about Dems and libs is their general inclusivity. We want to have everyone to have a voice and a place to exist in the government. Shared control over the direction of the country. We want to exist and have lives free of violence, prejudice and misogyny, among other things, and to be who we are. But that’s also a drawback. Every group has their special interest. That’s hard to work with. If they don’t feel that their special interest has been advanced in some way they tend to sit on their hands. Vote third party. Not vote at all. We have a LOT of people all pulling in slightly different directions at the same time.
The republicans? They really have only one simple agenda, and that’s god, guns, and fuck the liberal agenda. And they show up to vote to do just that.
2020 was pretty close and Biden's image hasn't gotten any better and clearly wasn't going to. He was never going to win.
It seems reckless, but the people who were pushing it were party insiders and big donors like George Clooney. I am not sure if it was a good idea, but I figure they must see things we don't.
Nope, they just have money we don't have
Disliked Biden, hate Kamala. Voted for them. Kamala and anyone else, nope.
They need someone hopey and feely like a 2008 Obama. If they don't find that, the Dems are toast. And I can't think of any mainstream politician that could get that reaction apart from maybe AOC. But that would get just as many MAGAs on the other side out to vote and they'd still lose.
You need empowering Democrat that is neutral to the MTG loving republicans.
Maybe Newsom? But if I had to bet it will be Kamala and another woman or minority to get the double whammy and they'll surely lose.
Good. So long Genocide Joe.
Edit: To the neoliberals downvoting this, this is what your denial is supporting. Joe Biden is pro-genocide and so is anyone who supports him. There's not even a practical reason to support him at this point, which is very telling to anyone still defending him.
Fuck zionism. And fuck anyone who thinks Biden is a "good guy" or moral by any stretch of the word.
You're incredibly short sighted. Anyone from both parties is still going to insure Israel is an ally.
Israel is a client of the US, not vice versa. Turkey occupies the same geographic space. The propping up the Israel is an ideological policy by the right-wing, not a meaningful geopolitical one for our nation.
What is your point? Trump is even more gung-ho about supporting Israel than Biden was, and whoever replaces Biden will certainly take his stance on the issue. There is no pro-palestine candidate even in the conversation.
No, I'm rejecting this notion outright. Nothing about what we see in Gaza indicates that Biden is any less "gung ho" about the slaughter. Israel is operating without limits. Basically everyone in the democratic party, whether they are pro-Israel or not, is still to the left of Biden on the issue. Even Harris pretty deliberately distanced herself from Biden on this because even she saw how bad this was going to be.
Biden is being forced to step down in no small part because his zionism has made him unelectable. The polls in Michigan that just came out were quite literally the straw that broke the camels back here. Whether Dems continue being pro-Israel or not, the lesson from the Biden presidency is still that voters have a hard limit.
Technically true. The clients of Israel are US politicians through AIPAC.
And possibly hello convicted felon, rapist, racist, Putin/Orban boot licker, veteran hater, who has had everyone remotely competent who's previously worked for him leave and say what a horrible person he is to the presidency elect. Or sorry does that not rhyme as well?
Don’t forget insurrectionist treasonous mutherfucker
All this is true and Biden was still projected to lose to him, which says a lot about who the party leaders are grooming for the office. You should direct your anger at them not the people who're having these terrible candidates foisted upon us. Imagine if they'd actually picked a likeable candidate back in 2016 and relegated Trump to the simple laughing stock that he is.
I was volunteering and telling everyone I knew to vote Bernie in 2016 for the primary but the DNC fucked everyone by just casting him aside. Because of that I didn't vote in 2016 and multiple things in my life got demonstrably worse right in front of my eyes and I'm not making that mistake again.
Biden was going to lose to Trump. So from both a moral and pragmatic perspective, it's good he's gone. You might be pro-bombing Palestinian children, you do you, but if you want a Dem president, this is the only way. It just so happens to also be a referendum on Biden's zionism.
Oh I'm sure you'll be talking about "Genocide Kamala" and telling us not to vote for her soon enough.
She at the every least had the decency to distance herself from Joe's fanaticism when he started giving his full-throated support for the genocide. She's still culpable, but represents a step in the right direction, away from right-wing extremism.
I'm pro cease fire and don't claim to know much on the topic, but neither side is doing the right thing from reports and what I've heard. This one moniker to show how bad Biden is is just so lazy and misinformed since nobody who will get elected on either side is going to do the right thing but please keep posting that on all Biden threads you seem to be an expert we can all learn from.
You're not pro-ceasefire if you think this is a "bothsides" issue. Israel has all the power. You know how you can tell without being an "expert"? Just look at the skeletal, starved, mutilated bodies of the children in Gaza and compare it to what's going on in Tel Aviv. Go look at the images from Gaza and try to tell me with a serious face it's "bothsides".
No. Joe is a genocide supporter, and so are those who make excuses for him.
Trump is Bibi's bestie. There is absolutely no way on Earth he would do a damn thing to end the genocide. In fact, he'll happily cheerlead it, without even the token hand-wringing we get from Biden.
Hell, I would say Biden was the better candidate from a pro-Ceasefire stance, since, at the very least, he is vulnerable to pressure from the left to push for a ceasefire. Trump is not.
In what way is Biden vulnerable to pressure from the left? What are they going to impeach him? The party hasn't listened to those of us on the left in decades.
Yes, and now we don't have to choose between genocide hard and genocide light. Harris (or whoever) can come in with a generic pro-peace two-state message rather than defending the decision to send Israel big bombs for months. He's off the ticket, you don't need to argue that he's bad but better than Trump anymore. The new candidate can just be not a genocide supporter.
Trump and Biden are both pro-genocide, yes, though Biden should be held accountable by democrat standards, not republican ones. It's about the party principles in terms of those too, Biden had to pay a price for his fanaticism.
But I was talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.
Who did you think I was talking about when I said Trump was Bibi's bestie?
For future reference, Bibi is Benjamin Netanyahu. And if you don't know that, you should probably educate yourself a bit more before talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.
Ohhhhh that's what you were talking about about... We all missed that...
I'm not making excuses for him but guess I see no betterment if repugs are in charge again, Ukraine situation will probably get worse as well, and I'm more worried about what more will happen with a project 2025 riddled future and stripping away of regulations and further ignoring of climate change and action. I am well aware of what's going on in Gaza and it needs to stop, but I know which devil will be a major net worse for the future of humanity and I'm going to vote against that future which is a blue vote.
No one wants the republicans in control. But voters committing to the game of chicken that Biden himself started with his own constituency was necessary to get him to step down. Like with a bully, if you never stand up for yourself they just keep abusing you again and again. That's neoliberal democrats to their base -- they're bullies to their own voters.
The threat to their power needed to be credible, people needed to show that they were ready to just let them take us over the cliff if that's where the Democratic establishment was going to take us, and it worked.
Biden is not a good human being. He's a narcissist and a child killer. There's no reason to show him any respect or deference now that he's stepped aside. In fact people should continue to loudly proclaim the genocide as his legacy, to make it clear to the party leadership that supporting genocide is an electoral liability, not something you can force down people's throats.
Lmao wait until Trump gives Netanyahu the green light to erase Palestine. Got what you wanted I guess. Hope you are prepared to do some more protesting, oh wait he will probably throw you lot in jail or deport for protesting unlike Biden. Reap what you sow.
Netanyahu already got the greenlight. Anyone who's been paying attention to what's happening in Gaza would know that.
There is no difference between Trump and Biden when it comes to their support of genocide. Biden is not more "moderate", he's fully onboard and has provided everything Netanyahu needs to continue his war crimes. The difference is Biden is a democrat, which means that he needs to be held to democrat standards, not republican ones. If he's not then the party is functionally the same as the GOP and pretending there's a difference is pointless.
You have no idea what genocide actually is.
What you're seeing is the results of a war.
A few months ago Kamala Harris met with the families of those that are still being held hostage by Hamas. So has Joe Biden. They might understand what's happening a little better than someone that spends their free time looking at photos of mutilated children on the internet.
There is some hope that now that Biden isn't seeking re-election he can do more to make a deal happen to get the hostages released which will end the current iteration of this conflict. So you'll have to find another place to find photos of mutilated children that you can pretend to be angry about.
I remember being young and naive and thinking everything in the world was simple, easy and black and white.
One day you will grow up and see how foolish shortsighted you are being.
And now you're old, condescending and accepting of genocide. Hope I'm never like you.
I'm willing to bet large sums of money that I've put in more effort to fight against this genocide than you have, sat whining about political candidates on niche websites and acting haulier than thou.
You must realize that just like Reddit, this sub is far left leaning. It's pointless to post anything that goes against the echo chamber.
The left is not in support of Israel. While it's true that there isn't much of a MAGA/nazi element on Lemmy like on Reddit, there is a fairly large neoliberal demographic. As well as a growing contingency of Israeli, Russian, and Chinese bots as those groups realize that Lemmy is growing as reddit continues to wane.