If I recall from the articles about this event. The pastor, who is black, invited Trump. In a funny twist as well, the former mayor of Detroit (also black) was there to speak about how great Trump is. Which is fine, except that Trump pardoned him at the end of his presidency because the man was convicted and guilty of: Obstruction of justice (x2), assault of a police officer, racketeering, tax evasion, extortion, mail fraud.
However even at the event that Kilpatrick was attending with Trump, while singing his praises, didn’t endorse him.
A lot of anti-abortion black people (single issue voters) and wealthy capitalist/Democrats are the party of Dr King voters support him. The venn diagram overlap would be money.
The normal parishioners wouldn't come because of the Trump attendance so his faithful filled out the crowd (meaning, were the entire crowd) to help feed his misrepresentation of the event. The church was so full. So full. And everyone there loved me, I can tell you that.
(Not a quote, just a likely facsimile.)
Regardless, I'm white and I would refuse to sit among a crowd of carpetbagging Trumpers who showed up to displace me from my own church (if I went to church), I sure wouldn't do so if I were black.
Traditionally, men should remove their hats during prayers or hymns, whereas women might choose to keep their decorative hats on. However, this practice can vary greatly depending on the denomination and local customs. Observing other attendees and being aware of the norms can help you navigate this aspect with grace. src
given this wasn’t even a service, but just using the space as a venue, i will say that the hats are the least disgusting thing happening in the image
That would be a different couch from the ones I've ever owned.
Sitting sideways on a couch reading a book is quite comfortable and plenty of people (myself included) don't wear shoes or socks at home, especially in the summer.
Context. I think some etiquette is ok. An overemphasis on it is not. E.g. while you and I don't care about it in our own homes, I wouldn't encourage it where a level of decorum is required, and the oval office is one such place. How would they feel if Lavrov did the same? If they can't respect the office they claim to hold dear, why should others?
99% of "normal etiquette" is just a bunch of outdated rules that make no sense. If even the "return to tradition" crowd is starting to feel comfortable wearing hats to church, it may be a sign that nature is healing.
I still see the tradition of men not wearing hats in church. However the women having to wear hats thing is gradually fading. Basically everyone who does it chooses to as a form of obedience
I'm sure there are exceptions for when you have to cover up your extramarital affairs with pornstars, when you reeeeeeally wanna keep some top-secret documents for personal use, when you make your money by defrauding others or just feel like keeping people in permanent fear so that they turn to you for salvation. After all, the constitution, which he has very much read, says that he can do absolutely everything with absolute impunity.
Don't bear false witness covers some of it, and I'm sure there is some snippet of text in the outdated testament that can be taken out of context to cover the rest.
the fact this isn't front page photo in every newspaper in the country tells you precisely how much the media wants the horserace, and not the best outcome for democracy. the fact trump keeps saying there's "88,000" missing illegal aliens during bidens admin so he can keep repeating the number 88 over and over and over again, and THAT is not front page news how the presumptive Republican nominee for President is coding neo nazi slogans into his speeches says everything about how much the media wants the horserace, and not the best outcome for the democracy,
there are some righteous journalists, there are some righteous media outlets, but they are too few and far between to drown out the incessant "both side" fucking nonsense which will see fascists come to power, and end their freedom of the press. the owners, and shareholders of these media outlets trade on the immediate eyeballs they can leverage into short advertising revenue
once the fascists take power and start curtailing these media companies rights to free press, they'll sell out, or simply abandon them, to go hide behind their walled communities, safe from the ruin they will have facilitated in the ruination our best effort egalitarian secular democracy
What media companies are you talking about? You mention there are some righteous ones but they're too few and far between. All of the other ones are owned by like 5 right wing billionaires. Those few and far between ones are all we have.
It’s pretty interesting how you somehow turned this into a both sides hyperbole.
So you go on this rant about how mainstream media has assisted the slide into fascism, how Democrats will be the savior or free speech and ethical journalism.
I seem to have missed what the DNC have done to fight back against this slide into fascism for the past 50 years. In fact they actively helped Trump get elected because he’d be easier to beat.
Can you explain what Democratic leaderships plan is to right the list and get this country functioning again?
the reporting on this could be better which sucks because it’s obvious it’s going to be memeified for months now
was this actually a church sponsored event or was it just being hosted in the building as a venue?
not coming at this with any assumptions or narratives i just wish there was more reliable original data than some twitter links i can’t look at without an account :/
edit, my take: wow that pastor seems like an upstanding guy and i would be nervous for his decision if i didn’t have hindsight and see it played out in a way that clearly only showed his guest’s hypocrisy.
"God gave me a high powered sniper crossbow for a reason, officer. I just made sure His Will was done by executing 5 obviously criminal SCOTUS "justices."
If the USA is a country that is a democracy, can be answered only by a tentative yes for now. There are too many things wrong with the voting system and disenfranchisement and systemic failures around court appointments for a definitive yes.
Apart from that, we live in a world where gods don't exist, but not everyone agrees on that.
I was originally thinking it was ripping on Trump, but if it's ironic and it's actually in support of Trump, then damn that's some next level shit. This is why Poe's Law is a thing.
See to me it seems clearly in support of Trump. At least that was my guess about the shirt creators intention. So it would be wearing it ironically if this guy was there to protest against Trump. But it’s hard to tell these days, like you say poe’s law and all.
The Satanic Temple come off as solid Democrats if not anarchocommunists or something. If it was a Satanic house of worship, it could possibly be the Church Of Satan (who, at least in Anton LaVey’s time, were dominance-oriented Ayn Rand assholes philosophically indistinguishable from today’s Republican Christianity), or if they’ve mellowed in their old age, the Order of Nine Angles (who, conveniently, are also neo-Nazis).
Well, I can see many people in there who are not perfect representatives of the Arian Race (people whose hair is not blond enough or whose eyes are brown rather than blue), so they should be counted as black, thus making this a mixed race audience, most of which are black.
Trump people only "identify as religious" they aren't the terrible people that traditional attend and hate. Lol I'm sure there is a slight overlap in the Venn Diagram.
I live in the Bible belt and can tell you: the evangelical megachurches are chock full of Christian nationalists.
Sure, there are factions in the GOP that don't really care about religion , but the SCOTUS wouldn't have overturned Roe if the hardcore religious zealots didn't work for decades to get it done.
The protesters at abortion clinics were bussed there by the churches a lot of the time; they're not outliers here. They are the engine that runs the party here in Texas. They have all kinds of excuses as to why Trump is doing God's will despite being a terrible human being.
"In the ordinary moral universe, the good will do the best they can, the worst will do the worst they can, but if you want to make good people do wicked things, you’ll need religion."
Nice way to cherrypick the verse and remove context 🤦
It's part of a wider account of Thomas literally seeing the risen Christ in front of him and still not believing. So Thomas insists that he touches His wounds. And this is simply Jesus' response blessing him who believes what he saw with evidence, but also blessing those who haven't witnessed the resurrection and risen Christ.
So He blessed two groups of believers: Those who critically investigate the resurrection narrative, and those who didn't feel the need to.
Nice way of accusing me of removing context while doing it yourself.
Assuming that what is written is true - and not just a folk tale like the Little Red Riding Hood, which is more probable - and that this specific God exists and became his own son and then died and got resurrected.
If we take into account the context that this text has been written several hundreds of years after it happened, anyone alive back then and also today can *only* be one of those who believe without seeing, because we can't go back in time to experience it ourselves like Thomas or the other apostles did.
So, we can't be the one "who believes what he saw with evidence". And we can only be "those who haven't witnessed the resurrection and risen Christ". And this is one of the fundamentals of any religion, but especially Christianity where you have to believe in Christ otherwise you will go to hell.
There is also the subtle nuance that if there is evidence then you don't need to believe, you just know.
With this context, at least I come to the conclusion that "religion demands you to go against evidence and just believe", otherwise you will go to hell, which nobody wants.
I mean just because the church is black - it might have be a satanist church and that's why they painted it black - doesn't mean that the people inside have to be black.
I am wondering if the parish at this church is majority white normally anyway. I had a friend in high school whose family went to the evangelical baptist church in town and they were white. He invited me one time, and I was surprised that there was only about 3 black people in attendance. I expected it to be mostly black people because that's how this denomination has been presented and stereotyped in media.
Like... Anything? TV, movies, etc. And my dumbass was thinking baptist. IDK how I got those names mixed up 🤦♂️. The kind of church with a big-ass choir and does a lot of high energy singing.
I was also very confused reading your previous comment, because of all the different names for black churches, "evangelical" is not a word I'd pick to describe them.
Also, I think it's important to clarify that the various black "baptist" denominations are very much not the same thing as "Southern Baptist"!
Maybe the word you were looking for was something like "gospel."
The kind of church with a big-ass choir and does a lot of high energy singing
Could be any, in a large enough area. AME Zionist, Baptist, Holiness,, Methodist, noon-denom, pick one. I didn't šay Catholic because I've never visited a mostly black Catholic Church, but I went to a Catholic Church with a black priest. But high energy singing, though.
If you look at the photos of the church at other times, you see a whopping TWO white people ... total ... and it appears they're with their spouses and mixed race kiddos.
Either it was all white people, or the white people and black people wouldn’t sit together. I don’t know which is worse.
If I recall from the articles about this event. The pastor, who is black, invited Trump. In a funny twist as well, the former mayor of Detroit (also black) was there to speak about how great Trump is. Which is fine, except that Trump pardoned him at the end of his presidency because the man was convicted and guilty of: Obstruction of justice (x2), assault of a police officer, racketeering, tax evasion, extortion, mail fraud.
However even at the event that Kilpatrick was attending with Trump, while singing his praises, didn’t endorse him.
A lot of anti-abortion black people (single issue voters) and wealthy capitalist/Democrats are the party of Dr King voters support him. The venn diagram overlap would be money.
Amen
Ramen
The normal parishioners wouldn't come because of the Trump attendance so his faithful filled out the crowd (meaning, were the entire crowd) to help feed his misrepresentation of the event. The church was so full. So full. And everyone there loved me, I can tell you that.
(Not a quote, just a likely facsimile.)
Regardless, I'm white and I would refuse to sit among a crowd of carpetbagging Trumpers who showed up to displace me from my own church (if I went to church), I sure wouldn't do so if I were black.
Isn't it normal etiquette to take off the hat in a church?
None of the people wearing a hat in that picture would be able to spell etiquette without a K. They love their Ks.
I like a good multilayered burn
Depends on what's being burned, and in whose lawn...
Bro they already took off their white hoods in the house of God. Give them a break.
not really
given this wasn’t even a service, but just using the space as a venue, i will say that the hats are the least disgusting thing happening in the image
Not if the hat wearer bears the mark of the devil on their forehead
We don't need to see the MAGA mark on their forehead to know its there. The hat on top of it already says MAGA.
Normal for them. His staff used to sit with their bare feet on the couches in the oval office.
I have no love for his staff, but why is sitting on a couch with your shoes off bad, especially in a high-stress environment?
Maybe because it makes your couch smell like feet? I honestly don't understand etiquette either.
That would be a different couch from the ones I've ever owned.
Sitting sideways on a couch reading a book is quite comfortable and plenty of people (myself included) don't wear shoes or socks at home, especially in the summer.
Context. I think some etiquette is ok. An overemphasis on it is not. E.g. while you and I don't care about it in our own homes, I wouldn't encourage it where a level of decorum is required, and the oval office is one such place. How would they feel if Lavrov did the same? If they can't respect the office they claim to hold dear, why should others?
Not if you worship a false-idol of a man.
99% of "normal etiquette" is just a bunch of outdated rules that make no sense. If even the "return to tradition" crowd is starting to feel comfortable wearing hats to church, it may be a sign that nature is healing.
I still see the tradition of men not wearing hats in church. However the women having to wear hats thing is gradually fading. Basically everyone who does it chooses to as a form of obedience
I'm sorry but should a church housing a political rally and supporting a political figure not be all sorts of illegal if theyre tax exempt?
The claim was that it was a roundtable discussion that Trump was a part of.
But of course, every Trump public appearance is a Trump rally.
A claim that isn't true and made knowingly is called a lie.
But also any time his lips move and words are produced, they are also called lies.
I prefer "the voice of treason"
Alternative truths.
I'm sure there are exceptions for when you have to cover up your extramarital affairs with pornstars, when you reeeeeeally wanna keep some top-secret documents for personal use, when you make your money by defrauding others or just feel like keeping people in permanent fear so that they turn to you for salvation. After all, the constitution, which he has very much read, says that he can do absolutely everything with absolute impunity.
Don't bear false witness covers some of it, and I'm sure there is some snippet of text in the outdated testament that can be taken out of context to cover the rest.
Only if a Dem does it.
the fact this isn't front page photo in every newspaper in the country tells you precisely how much the media wants the horserace, and not the best outcome for democracy. the fact trump keeps saying there's "88,000" missing illegal aliens during bidens admin so he can keep repeating the number 88 over and over and over again, and THAT is not front page news how the presumptive Republican nominee for President is coding neo nazi slogans into his speeches says everything about how much the media wants the horserace, and not the best outcome for the democracy,
there are some righteous journalists, there are some righteous media outlets, but they are too few and far between to drown out the incessant "both side" fucking nonsense which will see fascists come to power, and end their freedom of the press. the owners, and shareholders of these media outlets trade on the immediate eyeballs they can leverage into short advertising revenue
once the fascists take power and start curtailing these media companies rights to free press, they'll sell out, or simply abandon them, to go hide behind their walled communities, safe from the ruin they will have facilitated in the ruination our best effort egalitarian secular democracy
and so it goes
TBH the less I hear about Trump aside from his prison sentence, the better. He's not POTUS, there are real issues to talk about.
Wait what's up with the 88 thing
H is the 8th letter of the alphabet. So 88 is a common dog wistle for neo-nazis and white supremacists to say "heil hitler".
Being born in '88 must suck.
As someone who used his birthyear in his first reddit account i can confirm
It's a secret-ish Nazi/neonazi sign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
What media companies are you talking about? You mention there are some righteous ones but they're too few and far between. All of the other ones are owned by like 5 right wing billionaires. Those few and far between ones are all we have.
It’s pretty interesting how you somehow turned this into a both sides hyperbole.
So you go on this rant about how mainstream media has assisted the slide into fascism, how Democrats will be the savior or free speech and ethical journalism.
I seem to have missed what the DNC have done to fight back against this slide into fascism for the past 50 years. In fact they actively helped Trump get elected because he’d be easier to beat.
Can you explain what Democratic leaderships plan is to right the list and get this country functioning again?
How do you mentally take rage about the current state of journalism actively ignoring and encouraging Republicans bad behavior to mean "both sides"?
And here you come, saying they are both bad and we shouldn't concentrate on Trump and instead "what about the democrats!"
the reporting on this could be better which sucks because it’s obvious it’s going to be memeified for months now
was this actually a church sponsored event or was it just being hosted in the building as a venue?
not coming at this with any assumptions or narratives i just wish there was more reliable original data than some twitter links i can’t look at without an account :/
The pastor agreed to it after being contacted by the trump campaign. here with the pastor's explanation
ugh bless you thanks so much
edit, my take: wow that pastor seems like an upstanding guy and i would be nervous for his decision if i didn’t have hindsight and see it played out in a way that clearly only showed his guest’s hypocrisy.
It's still pretty damned telling no black people came to their own church to hear him talk.
He said his parishioners literally laughed in his face when he asked them to come.
I'm doubt the church is real, because I got no reports of Trump instantly burning to ash the moment he set foot in it.
The church is definitely real. God on the other hand...
So you want god to do the work, that you're supposed to do? Do we live in a democracy or a theocracy?
Did you reply to the wrong person? Your response to my comment implying that God doesn't exist makes no sense.
It's meant for both of these statements. Do we expect god to turn trump into ash or is it our job to build a good society?
"God helps those who help themselves"
"God works through us"
"God chooses imperfect vessels."
Sorry officer it wasn't me who threw gasoline on Trump and lit him on fire. God just works in mysterious ways, ya know?
"God gave me a high powered sniper crossbow for a reason, officer. I just made sure His Will was done by executing 5 obviously criminal SCOTUS "justices."
First quote is unbiblical
The implication of GP is that it's our job to turn Trump to ash (and I think that's the intended interpretation).
If the USA is a country that is a democracy, can be answered only by a tentative yes for now. There are too many things wrong with the voting system and disenfranchisement and systemic failures around court appointments for a definitive yes.
Apart from that, we live in a world where gods don't exist, but not everyone agrees on that.
Wait is this real or a meme
Yes.
I definitely would rather be trapped with a bear.
As a dude, I'm starting to understand the analogy...
This is the best possible outcome we can hope for considering his last visit to a church... Which isn't saying much. 100% less teargas this time!
He thought it could have been a chance to hear the voice of the marginalized. He apparently hasn't heard a trump interview or debatr before.
Source?
https://x.com/McNamaraWDET/status/1802092715825647735
Russ McNamara is the Detroit reporter mentioned.
Lol I love that the only black guy apparently in the audience was this guy
I can’t tell if that shirt is intended to be ironic or not.
I was originally thinking it was ripping on Trump, but if it's ironic and it's actually in support of Trump, then damn that's some next level shit. This is why Poe's Law is a thing.
See to me it seems clearly in support of Trump. At least that was my guess about the shirt creators intention. So it would be wearing it ironically if this guy was there to protest against Trump. But it’s hard to tell these days, like you say poe’s law and all.
What "black"?
The parishioners are supposed to be but all these white people REPLACED THEM.
This must be the "replacment" the rightwingers are always talking about.
edit: a letter
See, white replacement in action! /s
He must have meant their hearts. A crusted crumbling charcoal heart.
I don’t want these people to be in charge of the country. Is that wrong?
Republicans are full of hate and lies.
Best video I could find. Absolutely not sure about the source. I don't have Instagram so I can't verify anything but looks legit.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8QHQVuMW2b/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
He meant black as in its painted black not that it's predominantly attended by black people.
Oh, wrong kind of black church, I was trying to figure if he was going to a branch of the satanic temple or what was going on here...
The Satanic Temple come off as solid Democrats if not anarchocommunists or something. If it was a Satanic house of worship, it could possibly be the Church Of Satan (who, at least in Anton LaVey’s time, were dominance-oriented Ayn Rand assholes philosophically indistinguishable from today’s Republican Christianity), or if they’ve mellowed in their old age, the Order of Nine Angles (who, conveniently, are also neo-Nazis).
The Satanic Temple stands against pretty much everything Trump and his cultists stand for, as well as the big money Democrat establishment.
Definitely not ancoms.
Yeah, I forget there are two distinct terms for very different orgs, just more a whimsical thought of some goth cathedral and black sacraments thing.
Well, I can see many people in there who are not perfect representatives of the Arian Race (people whose hair is not blond enough or whose eyes are brown rather than blue), so they should be counted as black, thus making this a mixed race audience, most of which are black.
/s
Source on this?
It’s like where’s Waldo but I think I see three.
Is that lincoln in the back there?
Funny if you to believe any of these clowns have seriously been in a church before.
Why?
Some of the worst people I've ever known were from when I had to go.
Trump people only "identify as religious" they aren't the terrible people that traditional attend and hate. Lol I'm sure there is a slight overlap in the Venn Diagram.
I live in the Bible belt and can tell you: the evangelical megachurches are chock full of Christian nationalists.
Sure, there are factions in the GOP that don't really care about religion , but the SCOTUS wouldn't have overturned Roe if the hardcore religious zealots didn't work for decades to get it done.
The protesters at abortion clinics were bussed there by the churches a lot of the time; they're not outliers here. They are the engine that runs the party here in Texas. They have all kinds of excuses as to why Trump is doing God's will despite being a terrible human being.
Fellow Bible belt dweller. Can confirm.
That's one wall I wish we could build just separate all those nutjobs
Ironically though, megachurches are heavily frowned upon in Christian discourse spaces as basically being incredibly lukewarm
"In the ordinary moral universe, the good will do the best they can, the worst will do the worst they can, but if you want to make good people do wicked things, you’ll need religion."
Problem is that if you even read the Gospel of Luke or even Matthew alone, it basically already contradicts a lot of Trumpian rhetoric
This has never stopped anyone, in the contrary, religion demands you to go against evidence and just believe. See https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John.20.29&version=NIV
Nice way to cherrypick the verse and remove context 🤦
It's part of a wider account of Thomas literally seeing the risen Christ in front of him and still not believing. So Thomas insists that he touches His wounds. And this is simply Jesus' response blessing him who believes what he saw with evidence, but also blessing those who haven't witnessed the resurrection and risen Christ.
So He blessed two groups of believers: Those who critically investigate the resurrection narrative, and those who didn't feel the need to.
I, personally, fit into the former category.
Nice way of accusing me of removing context while doing it yourself.
Assuming that what is written is true - and not just a folk tale like the Little Red Riding Hood, which is more probable - and that this specific God exists and became his own son and then died and got resurrected.
If we take into account the context that this text has been written several hundreds of years after it happened, anyone alive back then and also today can *only* be one of those who believe without seeing, because we can't go back in time to experience it ourselves like Thomas or the other apostles did.
So, we can't be the one "who believes what he saw with evidence". And we can only be "those who haven't witnessed the resurrection and risen Christ". And this is one of the fundamentals of any religion, but especially Christianity where you have to believe in Christ otherwise you will go to hell.
There is also the subtle nuance that if there is evidence then you don't need to believe, you just know.
With this context, at least I come to the conclusion that "religion demands you to go against evidence and just believe", otherwise you will go to hell, which nobody wants.
The Gospel of John was written 40-70 years after the resurrection of Jesus.
I mean just because the church is black - it might have be a satanist church and that's why they painted it black - doesn't mean that the people inside have to be black.
I am wondering if the parish at this church is majority white normally anyway. I had a friend in high school whose family went to the
evangelicalbaptist church in town and they were white. He invited me one time, and I was surprised that there was only about 3 black people in attendance. I expected it to be mostly black people because that's how this denomination has been presented and stereotyped in media.E: wrong name.
What media? There are non-denominational evangelical churches that are predominantly * one race, some are a fair mix.
Also, what is up with the red shirt guy?
Like... Anything? TV, movies, etc. And my dumbass was thinking baptist. IDK how I got those names mixed up 🤦♂️. The kind of church with a big-ass choir and does a lot of high energy singing.
I was also very confused reading your previous comment, because of all the different names for black churches, "evangelical" is not a word I'd pick to describe them.
Also, I think it's important to clarify that the various black "baptist" denominations are very much not the same thing as "Southern Baptist"!
Maybe the word you were looking for was something like "gospel."
Gospel! That's the one. Holy shit my mind is mush today.
You're thinking of Pentecostal churches. Although plenty of white ones do exist.
Could be any, in a large enough area. AME Zionist, Baptist, Holiness,, Methodist, noon-denom, pick one. I didn't šay Catholic because I've never visited a mostly black Catholic Church, but I went to a Catholic Church with a black priest. But high energy singing, though.
If you look at the photos of the church at other times, you see a whopping TWO white people ... total ... and it appears they're with their spouses and mixed race kiddos.
I usually stereotype Pentecostals as being black 😂 When white people try to be Pentecostal, it usually ends up cringe.