Also depends on your insurance. I pay $25 per visit, and even over a year when I went every week, I doubt it was more expensive than restoring a train lol.
I am an American, and I pay zero dollars for my and my kid’s therapy. But it’s okay, you just wanted the low-hanging fruit by taking a shot at America.
Yeah, restorations aren't cheap, and the bigger the parts get, the more expensive they get. And it's not like you can hit up ye olde fireboxes-r-us anymore.
steam equipment is definitely not cheaper than therapy, you get a cracked cylinder? Better hope you have literal tons of iron/steel sitting around, and or something/someone to pay for it, as well as someone to machine it, because none of that exists anymore.
Men got themselves a hobby they enjoy, and gets to share with others. Two amazing things for someones overall mental health. Sounds like someone living the dream.
Yeah, most people today meed therapy because they feel isolated from their work, unappreciated, and are stressed about finances. A hobby where you work towards a common goal with no real world consequences is what most people need in their life right now. ~~~~
OR, they’ve already been through therapy and found some decent medication, and are keenly aware that personally enjoyable hobbies are an essential part of self care.
Oh boy, where to start. I’d say first, read up on the nitrogen cycle because that’s the most important part of filtration. Read up on KH (carbonate hardness too).
Then make sure you’re going to have more filtration than you need.
When designing the pond, keep predators in mind. I’m a fan of making the sides go straight down, and having the whole pond be deep. No places to walk into the water.
Plus, that kind of design means more water volume. More water volume means either more fish, or more stable water parameters and more room to grow. And along the same lines, build it to be as big as will fit! It’s a big cliche in the hobby that it’s never big enough, and here I am this year upgrading my ~3000 gal pond that’s 30” deep, to 6000+ gallons and about 5 feet deep.
If you install a bottom drain in the pond (recommended) gravity fed to a settling tank before it gets to the pump, you could vacuum all the fish poop out of that and get the majority of it very easily.
For the pond liner, you want 45 mil EPDM rubber. It is kind of expensive, but it is the standard for a reason.
And that’s not all the information obviously, but I think I’ve run out of steam, lol. I enjoy spreading the love with this hobby though, so please message me with future questions.
Edit to add: look up photos of bogs for ponds. They can be part of your filtration, but you can also plant a bunch of plants in it and the ones that can handle the wet roots will grow like crazy, eating nitrates and other nutrients directly from the water.
and the only way for men to get good is to spend $1000s of dollars talking to therapists, who are predominantly women.
or maybe... the apparatus of therapy is woman-biased and therefore it negates and legitimatizes men's emotions and their expression. and the positive things men do in the world with their emotions must be shame and ridicule because they should submit to our belief that talk-therapy is the only legitimate form of emotional outlet...
You can flip that around and suggest that it's normal and accepted for men to put effort into a hobby as a mental release, and this should be perfectly fine for women as well, but sometimes it's not amd they are in the past seen as weird, abnormal, or hysterical for having interests.
But it isn't normal and accepted for men to put effort into a hobby? It is common and clichéd to mock men endlessly for their interests? Like in this very post?
amd they are in the past seen as weird, abnormal, or hysterical for having interests.
I don't think it's ever been considered more weird, abnormal, or hysterical to crotchet as a gal than it has been to build bottle ships for guys. That is, sure, there's been lots of BS around the type of hobby, it not being "gender-adequate", but women not allowed to have hobbies? At all? What? Being too poor to have hobbies, sure, but that again is not a gendered thing.
Would've been more productive to keep it at "male depression and anxiety is underdiagnosed", maybe also say "because therapists only learn about female-pattern symptoms", YMMV on that being pushing a bit too far.
I will not comment on comments talking about men's mental health getting downvoted in a post about men's mental health and, should a definite pattern emerge, let that speak for itself.
The vast, vast majority of men (in the US, can't speak to other cultures) need therapy. Just getting over internalized phobias is something the entire culture needs. Really, everyone needs therapy at some point and very few have a chance to get it, and fewer take it.
But in regards to this meme: men tend to need therapy more. The patriarchy (what society pushes as male "culture") heavily represses emotional expressions and few men have an outlet to talk to their friends or family about their feelings. This leads to a lot of repressed emotions, lashing out, etc.
It's impossible to tell. But my statement that pretty much everyone needs therapy, especially men, still stands.
That and it's a joke meme not a personal attack. Because often men do engage in distractions instead of dealing with their feelings. Everyone does, but men have less-encouraged avenues to pursue dealing with it. This is meant to convey that many men are disadvantaged at dealing with issues, know the solution, but still refuse to try to fix it. It's a common enough occurrence that this is a meme.
I’m a man. I’ve been to therapy. I went back to university and got my degree in my 30’s. Now I’m happy with who I am as a person. My hobbies are gardening, coffee, video games, and electronics. I volunteer as a tutor twice a week helping high school kids with their home work. Are you saying I should give all that stuff up and go back to therapy?
I’m not defensive about a meme. I’m challenging the assertion that everyone needs therapy. Therapy is what you need when you don’t know how to make yourself happy. If you don’t have a problem with that then you don’t need therapy. Telling people they need therapy when you don’t know anything about them is what offends me.
This is a generalized meme. It's not really about anyone in particular. But tell me why this really engaged you and makes you feel like you need to challenge it. Perhaps you feel it fits closer than you'd like to believe? Does it remind you of something your parents said?
But my statement that pretty much everyone needs therapy, especially men, still stands.
i don't disagree per se, but i also don't agree either, therapy doesn't solve problems, unless they're maladaptations, in which case it can be used to rectify them, otherwise it's providing functional coping mechanisms to people who need them for things that they simply cannot function around.
But there is also a discussion to be had around whether certain maladapted behaviors are even a problem to begin with. Because arguably there is a larger societal problem with how we treat individuals, which leads to what are classified and defined as problems, but in reality, might just be someone trying to engage in something that they can't engage in via healthy means. Alcohol and gamling aren't a thing for everybody for a reason, but apparently society is a thing for everyone all the time, and anything other than that is "bad"
Oh and also we need enough therapists, to be able to therapy everyone, currently we have significantly less than we need, and college turn out rates are lower as of recent, than just about anything else. So uh, good luck recommending what is probably a distant future solution? Because we certainly don't have enough people in the field now, and we definitely don't seem to have many people wanting to go into the field themselves.
What we need is a society and environment that aligns with human nature.
Yes, I'm in therapy and I take meds. But I sure as fuck didn't need any therapy and meds during the 6 months I worked as a hiking and horseback riding guide in a Provincial Park in British Columbia.
Agreed. Most of us need therapy because we are in an aggressively hostile society. In a humane society, we'd only rarely need therapy when traumatic and rare events occurred, or similar instances.
i think it's less that men need therapy, though older men, particularly those above 30 probably do, the problem with young men right now is not therapy, it's a lack of societal engagement from them, presumably because society doesn't really know what to do with them, or doesn't really understand how to deal with shifting tides.
the problem isn't engagement, it's the lack of the fulfillment of the social contract.
what is the point in engaging for them if they aren't going to be rewarded with good jobs, homes, families, and a sense of progress and security? there isn't any. so they give up. at least the bottom half do. For the top quartile of men, those things are still on offer.
I don't really like the traditional interpretation of social contract theory, it's very Pavlovian, which works, but seems rather dystopian. Works well for conceptualizing society, but doesn't build a productive one i think. Like you said, we need to give men something to do, something to work for, and something to enjoy. And outside of that, they need a place in society that they can exist, without limitation. Because currently, there isn't really a space for them. Arguably there isn't one for women either, so addressing both of those would be beneficial.
As a mental health worker, if a client got involved with something like this, I'd be thrilled. This sounds like it provides purpose and community to all involved. Good for them!
I actually agree with you in many aspects. Something new that is being taught in therapy training is that we have to be aware of systemic issues that are contributing to someone's mental health.
Example: someone is suicidal and feeling hopeless. Do they have clinical major depressive disorder? Maybe, but if we ask "how are your finances doing?" And they say they work full time at Walmart and get paid $10 per hour and have 3 kids... Yeah it makes sense why they feel helpless and suicidal.
For this reason, therapists and mental health workers have a duty to advocate for progressive social policies.
It would be like if were constantly maiming and injuring people and saying the problem was not enough people going to physical therapy.
In that I kind of agree with you. Many problems can be traced back to societal issues. Hell is other people. That's why we need to do better.
Sending those, damaged by society, to therapy is necessary, but we wouldn't be there if several root causes wouldn't exist.
Like if we just took blackrock's real estate and put homeless people in it the mental health crisis would just be like 80% solved. I'm not even kidding.
Oversimplification, imo. But this is surely a contributing factor.
In one of my psych courses the professor noted a study (not sure of the source, this was closing in on twenty years ago now) that while psychotherapy had pretty good efficacy for certain things, it was equivalent with "talk openly with your friends about it" in most metrics. A therapist is great for providing specific strategies to address particular challenges (for issues like PTSD, for example, a therapist can help to manage an exposure therapy approach) but after a point you're kinda just paying through the nose for somebody to professionally emulate you having a healthy friendship with a well-adjusted person.
and according to some folks in this thread the only thing making life worth living is seeing a therapist... and you can't possibly be well adjusted if you don't.
No offense to you, but I definitely don't think this will address quite a few things that therapy can.
If all you are suffering from is a lack of direction in life, then this absolutely will help. You could even see improvements in social anxiety and social aptitude.
Anger problems, though? Alexithymia? Chronic episodes of mental dissociation? I don't think working on the train crew's gonna help
At the same time, It's definitely been conjected that therapy is mostly woman-focused and isn't as effective for men for various reasons. That kind of lines up with a few of my previous therapists, who felt like worthless experiences for me. I have heard of some new therapy styles implemented in certain places, though, that do sound to be genuinely helpful to dudes.
You make a decent point and illustrate by your "woman-focused" that there is a decided lack of professional therapists geared to male issues. This is why we have learned to find inner peace through creative activities. It lets us focus on the task instead of stewing on things over which we have little if any effect or control
I think most men have not learned to find inner peace and still suffer from closeted issues. The rate of suicide amongst men is still so high. There's definitely a bias we dudes who find hobby communities, where we assume that most dudes have found these spaces. I'd argue most dudes in the US are still suffering from isolation.
I don't think the fact that many therapists are 'woman-focused' is a reason to avoid therapy. You can still find a therapist that really helps. It may just take several tries. As I also mentioned, there are efforts to create methods that are more effective for men, and you can seek out those groups as well.
There is also still a strong stigma against seeking therapy, and I definitely see that argument about therapy being 'woman-focused' being thrown out as an excuse not to try therapy at all.
That is a hobby. A lovely one, but still a hobby. That is not therapy.
I'm not saying you can't gain insights into yourself or situations while doing that. It can most definitely help and be therapeutic. But therapy it is not
SO FUCKING WHAT?!?!? DO I NEED TO ASK PERMISSION TO HAVE A FUCKING HOBBY, YOUR MAJESTY??? JESUS CHRIST!!!(smashing noises and incoherent yelling from garage)
Learning to not do this was an important part of my mental health journey. I’ve come to realize I was raised by some very negative people. Very nice people that I see regularly, but always looking for something to complain about rather than something to appreciate.
I understand this to some extent. I however wasn't raised by nice people. When I cut contact with them I got better and discovered I didn't have to like something someone else did for it to be good for them.
Having a hobby and being part of a community is a very constructive, helpful, and effective way of beating back the isolation and despair that is killing so many young people.
fuck you, coal fired steam boilers, and steam engines are one of the coolest, and most technologically impressive things we have ever done throughout history. Only topped by the deep space probes currently hurtling to the middle of nowhere spaceland.
Presliced bread goes bad quicker and I also prefer a different slice thickness than what is usually offered. I don’t understand why it’s seen as such an achievement.
I used to bring up that Diane Feinstein was older than sliced bread to point out her age... but now it's hard to say she is older. Need a new politician to rag on.
I think that's pretty cool, seems like a net positive for everyone, guy loves trains..guy fixes train...shares passion with community...more people love train. He wins, train wins, community wins.
Yeah, if I didn't have to spend time on a job, I'd spend some of that free time volunteering with habitat for humanity to build houses. I love doing that kind of shit.
Yeah, like you could say the exact same thing about gardening or painting or knitting. Taking up a hobby and learning how to do something can be really relaxing and beneficial to your mental health. Gender has nothing to do with it.
Once upon a time there was a Little Engine that Could, that said "I think I can, I think I can!" Now it just says "It is what it is, it is what it is..."
They dodge depression by doing something that brings joy to their hearts instead of constantly complaining about how depressed they are and how therapy is essential for everyone these days? How dare they!
This format seems to always frame therapy as shitty, and the other thing as actually really cool, if complicated.
I doubt it's intentional, but seems anti men's mental health. And honestly, that situation is so fucked up beyond measure, that micro-aggressions like this meme format is really hurting the cause. My two cents.
Most of them are glaringly obvious, some are meta. This one though can easily come across as "stuff closeted misandrists say to get a pat on the back" if you don't know the format. Flanked by a good dose of nerd shaming.
I mean it's true, men will literally comment on the internet before going to therapy. We will also literally tie our shoelaces before going to therapy.
You know what, this is a good thing. This time actually reading the knowyourmeme article, they're a parody reaction thing. Some 20, 30 years ago a new pattern of insult cropped up here in Germany, things like Warmduscher and Schattenparker, "someone who takes warm showers", "someone who parks in the shadow". They were never meant literally-literally, but they did come up with a definite air of "you should be toughing it out", "being a bit sensitive about things aren't we". They were quickly balanced out by things like Drahtseilbungeespringer, roughly "steel cable bungee jumper".
Humour is serious business and usually the best weapon against shittiness we have, and if occasionally we have things that can be misinterpreted, like here, overall it's still worth it.
You know what is better than crying and taking mind altering drugs? Not needing either.
I know this is a joke post (at least I really hope it is) but why are some women so against men being happy? Like they want do to everything in their power to take away "guy stuff" it's not enough that they don't have to go. But the fact they don't like it means that no one else should and men are wrong because they do something women don't.
I strongly believe that men's mental health is positively impacted by male groups. But women don't want men to have male groups. Women can obviously! That goes without saying. But men. No, not allowed they should be ashamed of themselves.
I think it's a really issue in society and you never ever hear women criticise women's role in negatively impacting men. But somehow I bet this is all the patriarchy's fault
Of course they are. The point is it is normalised and that's the issue.
Women telling men what they should do, what they shouldn't do, how everything in their life is other men's fault and no one else's. All perfectly acceptable.
If we want men to be happier mentally we should start by asking men what they need. What we shouldn't do is get women to tell then what they need. Also women need to take responsibility for the negative things they do, why should they get a free pass to mistreat people? Just because they aren't "part of the patriarchy"?
Like I seen this the other day. Some guy talking about what makes him happy and he gets told he's sad for doing it.
My point is, women dont do things like that. The wrong type of women do though.
I have been in the same relationship for 15 years and my partner and I respect what we do and support each others interests. Its the same with our friends. Some times we'll meet people in dysfunctional relationships and try to help. But in the end its up to people to decide what they accept
They're speaking about their experience and you just completely dismissed it as "women don't do things like that, the wrong type of women do."
I recall a man/bear hypothetical being posted recently and any man that said "not all men" was shouted down and called a misogynistic rape apologist or worse.
When someone speaks about their lived experiences it's best to just listen and acknowledge, not try to defend shitty people.
I don't know if you assume that I am a woman, or you are trying to make me cheer for the bear.
I understand that people have personal experiences that can be hard and even unbearable, to even talk about, but that does not justify one saying that men are like that and women are like this. I understand that it is important to share about ones lived experiences but also important not to make conclusions about all humanity based on the few people you have had a relationship to
(EDIT: misread and therefore misinterpreted the parent comment. Thought, it was a generalisation on all women. Striked out relevant sections here.)
but why are some women so against men being happy?
"They" aren't.
Like they want do to everything in their power to take away "guy stuff"
"They" don't.
But the fact they don't like it means that no one else should and men are wrong because they do something women don't.
That's a bizarre perception you have there.
I strongly believe that men's mental health is positively impacted by male groups.
Having a supportive peer group, regardless of gender, can be helpful, yes.
No, not allowed they should be ashamed of themselves.
Where tf do you get that from?
I think it's a really issue in society and you never ever hear women criticise women's role in negatively impacting men. But somehow I bet this is all the patriarchy's fault
Are you mixing two different things now? Feminism and men's mental health?
Regarding the latter, patriarchy is not necessarily a cause for this. It's rather male role models and toxic masculinity. Countless of men worldwide are raised in a way which is unhealthy for their mental state. "Don't cry! That's what girls do! Don't be such a baby!" Those men don't learn how to deal with their issues and emotions. They develop several kinds of problems as a result of that. Either a drug addiction problem like drinking, and/or spiraling down depression until they kill themselves, get anger issues or whatever. The suicide rate in men is higher as in women due to stuff like that. They have never learned that it's okay to ask for help. They are rather being shamed for feeling low.
That's what this post makes a pun about: a lot of such men rather find some coping mechanisms instead of dealing with their issues. They seek distractions. That's not necessarily a bad thing per se, but, in the larger scale of seeing how many men avoid dealing with their shit, it can certainly become one.
It's certainly not about women wanting to take "guy stuff" away, wtf. Oo
Where I come from men's clubs are illegal. So yes, like it or not it's already been proven to have happened.
I like how you think know what all women have ever done though. My housemates was telling that what me and the members of our rugby club get up to at our own private bar, singing, drinking and fucking about with each other isn't okay. That although we are all their voluntarily and they we all very much enjoy it, and its good for our mental health, it shouldn't be allowed. In fact she said if it was up to her a lot of sport would be banned.
Here's a genuine question. Why do you, my housemates, other women think they know absolutely what is best for mental mental health when it goes against what men even say?
I've got a lot more support from men than I have from women. And I've seen guys get a lot more hurtful abuse from women than I have from men. But that goes against the narrative that all issues in the world are caused by the patriarchy and that women can do no wrong.
If the suicide rate is so high for men maybe we should start by asking men what they need? How would having women telling them everything that they have done wrong a good thing?
What women cannot understand is men are different to women. We act in a different way to you and that's perfectly okay. What is not okay is women telling men how they need to act.
Also if you want to do a bit of reading go find all the questions on the internet to the effect of "why don't you open up to your girlfriend" and you can hear all the horrific ways women use men's vulnerability against them. You can see the general consensus being that more often than not opening up to women makes things worse because of how women react to a vulnerable man and that if you need to talk about problems do it with men.
But again that goes against the feminist argument that men's issues are only to do with toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. But lol what do men know about their issues own issues? Nothing.
Where I come from men’s clubs are illegal. So yes, like it or not it’s already been proven to have happened.
Could you provide more context please? Where is it you come from where men's clubs are illegal? And what are the reasons for them being illegal?
I like how you think know what all women have ever done though.
First of all, I'm sorry. It seems I've misread your comment. I thought you were generalising, which I find usually wrong to do. Especially in such rather sensitive contexts like these. That's why I've put "they" in quotation marks in my previous comment in order to counter that generalisation. But after re-reading, I've noticed that you've written "some women" not women in general. So I'm going to revise that part. (After I've sent this comment I will also strike the coresponding sections in my previous comment.)
Regarding your experience with your housemate, needless to say that this was shitty of her and certainly not a meaningful approach to improve mental health of men.
I'm not sure whether it's relevant now anymore to reply to the remaining parts of your response, but I'll do so anyway in case this is still relevant to you:
Here’s a genuine question. Why do you, my housemates, other women think they know absolutely what is best for mental mental health when it goes against what men even say? [...]
I don't claim to know what is best. But I claim that there are detrimental mindsets deeply rooted into our society which is severly problematic for the mental health of men. That's what's usually also refered to as "toxic masculinity".
For different reasons I therefore think that a shift in how we are raising men and dealing with men's mental health is necessary. Those reasons include, but are not limited to, the following:
I'm a man myself. Having experienced that pressure from my parents, some teachers, peers and basically society in general, has left me to this day with the feeling of shame when I'm feeling low. Gladly, I took the step to seek therapy due to a lot of shit that has happened in my life. But it clearly cristalises that - currently - I can't accept for myself that it's okay to have negative emotions and seek help or talk to others about that. It's much better than in the past, but it's so deeply burnt into my mind that it is still an obstacle a lot of times.
I have no issues in accepting that in other men or people in general. To the contrary, I encourage everyone not to feel ashamed about how they feel, that it's okay, etc.. Because I know from first hand experience how bad this can be, especially if you've got a lot of other issues anyway.
Sometimes I volunteer in supporting people who seek help with their issues in life or mental health. Sometimes it's stuff like "suicide watch". I've also got cases among my friends where I see that pattern repeating: If people don't deal with their shit, it usually has bad consequences in the long run. And among men is a high prevalence of cases which simply don't seek help and can't really deal with their issues in a longterm beneficial way. Men are usually experiencing high difficulties with even talking about such matters. This has also been observed in several studies and is - as far as I know - a well-known phenomenon among psychologists.
I am in therapy and my therapists basically confirmed that.
To avoid a misunderstanding, let me make one thing very clear:
I am not against men having their "guy stuff", meeting in their interest groups and doing the stuff they like together. To the contrary, this is really good stuff! It's much better than sitting alone in the dark like a lot of depressed people do, myself included. It is usually very beneficial and helpful. (Depending of course also on stuff like the "social battery" of individuals.)
Psychological therapy for depression is in some parts also about finding what someone brings joy and developing some base stabilisation which helps them to go for that. In other words, men, who go to therapy, are also asked what they would like to do, what makes them feel good and so on. And therapists can help to enforce such mentally beneficial behaviours. Having a functioning social life is certainly one of the big factors. Distraction is also not always bad, it is also sometimes even encouraged. Now comes the,
But:
If men, despite enjoying such things, have concurrent issues, and such distractions and activies rather become a manifestation of "running away" or avoidance in general, those issues usually won't go away. Those issues will still linger and for each passing day may get worse and worse until those people - and this is regardless of gender - develop further dysfunctionalities which become increasingly difficult to deal with. And with men, as I said, it is usually difficult to get them to "deal with their stuff" due such reasons as toxic masculinity. Heck, it took over a decade until I got myself to seek therapy and I am angry with myself that I didn't do it much earlier.
Going on:
I’ve got a lot more support from men than I have from women. And I’ve seen guys get a lot more hurtful abuse from women than I have from men. But that goes against the narrative that all issues in the world are caused by the patriarchy and that women can do no wrong.
Good for you, that you got supportive men around you! Women are also people and people can be assholes. I'm sorry for you and the other guys who have seen abuse.
That certainly depends on the people though. Be among toxic men, get rekt. Be among toxic women, get rekt. Be among nice and empathetic men/women, and it's the other way around. However, toxic masculinity is a thing and there is plenty of evidence that men have usually more issues with dealing with their issues than women. As I've noted in my other comment before, that doesn't necessarily has a causal relation relationship. You can have patriarchy, which systematically treats women as "less" in various aspects, and you can have toxic masculinity, where men and sometimes also women make life hard for other men. The one does not necessarily cause the other as they can, but must not, co-exist independently.
I think the one take-away for everyone is: don't be an asshole.
If the suicide rate is so high for men maybe we should start by asking men what they need? How would having women telling them everything that they have done wrong a good thing?
The problem is, that a lot of men don't talk much about what they need, though. It's difficult to even get them there. But if they do, then sure, as long as we can make sure that such behaviour is not that kind of avoidance I mentioned earlier. Women are raised differently and are therefore usually (not generally) better in dealing with such issues and providing empathetic support. However, I don't think we should listen to one gender only, as gender alone does not necessitate virtue. Regarding mental health, I think we should listen to two parties: 1. the affected person and 2. the experts, which are mostly psychologists.
What women cannot understand is men are different to women. We act in a different way to you and that’s perfectly okay. What is not okay is women telling men how they need to act.
I'm sure that there are a plethora of women out there who don't have issues in understanding that men and women are different. That's an uncautious generalisation of you there.
Also, I'm a man, my dude. ;)
"One telling the other how to act" must not be a bad thing if it comes from a good place. If we regularly see how men are systematically struggling worse than women with mental health issues, then it's surely in their best interest to start pushing for beneficial changes. What those changes are, should be left to the experts though, and not to gender differences among people. Despite that, I think that it wouldn't hurt if a lot of men (those, struggling with opening up and dealing with their issues) would take some inspiration from women or people in general who have it easier with that.
Also if you want to do a bit of reading go find all the questions on the internet to the effect of “why don’t you open up to your girlfriend” and you can hear all the horrific ways women use men’s vulnerability against them. You can see the general consensus being that more often than not opening up to women makes things worse because of how women react to a vulnerable man and that if you need to talk about problems do it with men.
Well, that's surely shitty. But not the general consensus I noticed, nor the one observed in studies. Mind that looking for such questions is already a bias in the data itself. We can already estimate intuitively that those, who talk about difficulties in talking to their girlfriend/spouse are more likely to be in a toxic relationship itself or in one where miscommunication on both sides may be a problem. Look for the same question the other way around and you'll probably get a similar picture. This also doesn't equate to all the cases where such interactions with women don't have negative outcomes. Mainly, because people usually don't go on the internet and tell them how well their relationship is or how much they enjoyed talking to their women-friends. So, to get the full picture, representative surveys must be conducted. This also fully neglects the plethora of men who don't even talk at all to anyone, which is, as far as I know, the much higher number of cases.
Hang on I'm going to need some help here I appear to have got myself into a logical loop.
I'm not depressed so I can't play with trains but now I'm sad that I can't play with trains. So I can play with trains? But now I'm not depressed anymore. So I guess I have to stop? Which makes me sad.
Sounds like a form of therapy in and of itself.
Sharing your enjoyment with others. Work you can take pride in. Preserving history. Sounds pretty great for mental health.
And probably cheaper.
I can guarantee it’s not cheaper
Depends on if you're in America, or a real first world country.
One won't be cheaper, the other has a high likelihood of being cheaper.
Also depends on your insurance. I pay $25 per visit, and even over a year when I went every week, I doubt it was more expensive than restoring a train lol.
And how much do you pay just to have that insurance? How much lower is your paycheck because your company provides insurance?
I am an American, and I pay zero dollars for my and my kid’s therapy. But it’s okay, you just wanted the low-hanging fruit by taking a shot at America.
Am American. The fruit is low hanging for a fucking reason.
Yeah, restorations aren't cheap, and the bigger the parts get, the more expensive they get. And it's not like you can hit up ye olde fireboxes-r-us anymore.
steam equipment is definitely not cheaper than therapy, you get a cracked cylinder? Better hope you have literal tons of iron/steel sitting around, and or something/someone to pay for it, as well as someone to machine it, because none of that exists anymore.
Yeah, I was gonna say that these men DID go to therapy.
That was my thought.
Men got themselves a hobby they enjoy, and gets to share with others. Two amazing things for someones overall mental health. Sounds like someone living the dream.
Yeah, most people today meed therapy because they feel isolated from their work, unappreciated, and are stressed about finances. A hobby where you work towards a common goal with no real world consequences is what most people need in their life right now. ~~~~
https://mensshed.org/
Honestly, if you think about it, therapy did kind of replace the support structures formed in tight knit communities...
OR, they’ve already been through therapy and found some decent medication, and are keenly aware that personally enjoyable hobbies are an essential part of self care.
Not that I know anything about that.
I want a koi pond to use their poop to fertilize my gardens, any tips or resources for a newbie?
I have no information to offer. I just want to say that koi ponds are beautiful, and I wish you the best of luck.
Aquaponics
Oh boy, where to start. I’d say first, read up on the nitrogen cycle because that’s the most important part of filtration. Read up on KH (carbonate hardness too).
Then make sure you’re going to have more filtration than you need.
When designing the pond, keep predators in mind. I’m a fan of making the sides go straight down, and having the whole pond be deep. No places to walk into the water.
Plus, that kind of design means more water volume. More water volume means either more fish, or more stable water parameters and more room to grow. And along the same lines, build it to be as big as will fit! It’s a big cliche in the hobby that it’s never big enough, and here I am this year upgrading my ~3000 gal pond that’s 30” deep, to 6000+ gallons and about 5 feet deep.
If you install a bottom drain in the pond (recommended) gravity fed to a settling tank before it gets to the pump, you could vacuum all the fish poop out of that and get the majority of it very easily.
For the pond liner, you want 45 mil EPDM rubber. It is kind of expensive, but it is the standard for a reason.
And that’s not all the information obviously, but I think I’ve run out of steam, lol. I enjoy spreading the love with this hobby though, so please message me with future questions.
Edit to add: look up photos of bogs for ponds. They can be part of your filtration, but you can also plant a bunch of plants in it and the ones that can handle the wet roots will grow like crazy, eating nitrates and other nutrients directly from the water.
Why would someone assume these people needed therapy in the first place?
because men are bad, and women are good.
and the only way for men to get good is to spend $1000s of dollars talking to therapists, who are predominantly women.
or maybe... the apparatus of therapy is woman-biased and therefore it negates and legitimatizes men's emotions and their expression. and the positive things men do in the world with their emotions must be shame and ridicule because they should submit to our belief that talk-therapy is the only legitimate form of emotional outlet...
You can flip that around and suggest that it's normal and accepted for men to put effort into a hobby as a mental release, and this should be perfectly fine for women as well, but sometimes it's not amd they are in the past seen as weird, abnormal, or hysterical for having interests.
But it isn't normal and accepted for men to put effort into a hobby? It is common and clichéd to mock men endlessly for their interests? Like in this very post?
I don't think it's ever been considered more weird, abnormal, or hysterical to crotchet as a gal than it has been to build bottle ships for guys. That is, sure, there's been lots of BS around the type of hobby, it not being "gender-adequate", but women not allowed to have hobbies? At all? What? Being too poor to have hobbies, sure, but that again is not a gendered thing.
don't let reality get the way of the 'man = bad woman = good' narrative.
women have always had hobbies and been hobbiest, at least among the upper classes. just as men have.
and the poor women had to work to the bone, just like the poor men.
Ok buddy, I think you pushed it a bit too far...
Would've been more productive to keep it at "male depression and anxiety is underdiagnosed", maybe also say "because therapists only learn about female-pattern symptoms", YMMV on that being pushing a bit too far.
I will not comment on comments talking about men's mental health getting downvoted in a post about men's mental health and, should a definite pattern emerge, let that speak for itself.
You realize you can just get a male therapist right?
They do exist and a lot of them will relate to male emotional expression where it isn't just outright toxic.
The vast, vast majority of men (in the US, can't speak to other cultures) need therapy. Just getting over internalized phobias is something the entire culture needs. Really, everyone needs therapy at some point and very few have a chance to get it, and fewer take it.
But in regards to this meme: men tend to need therapy more. The patriarchy (what society pushes as male "culture") heavily represses emotional expressions and few men have an outlet to talk to their friends or family about their feelings. This leads to a lot of repressed emotions, lashing out, etc.
These guys are not lashing out, though. There is no discernable connection between somebody taking an interest in trains and avoiding therapy lol
the disconnection is that they are spending money on trains, not on therapists.
That is a hilariously bad reading of what this meme is about.
fuck ya hobby i guess.
It's impossible to tell. But my statement that pretty much everyone needs therapy, especially men, still stands.
That and it's a joke meme not a personal attack. Because often men do engage in distractions instead of dealing with their feelings. Everyone does, but men have less-encouraged avenues to pursue dealing with it. This is meant to convey that many men are disadvantaged at dealing with issues, know the solution, but still refuse to try to fix it. It's a common enough occurrence that this is a meme.
Edit: lol. Lemmy is really full of insecure men.
I’m a man. I’ve been to therapy. I went back to university and got my degree in my 30’s. Now I’m happy with who I am as a person. My hobbies are gardening, coffee, video games, and electronics. I volunteer as a tutor twice a week helping high school kids with their home work. Are you saying I should give all that stuff up and go back to therapy?
... You went to therapy. This isn't about you.
But if you're this defensive about a meme? Lol yeah probably bud.
I’m not defensive about a meme. I’m challenging the assertion that everyone needs therapy. Therapy is what you need when you don’t know how to make yourself happy. If you don’t have a problem with that then you don’t need therapy. Telling people they need therapy when you don’t know anything about them is what offends me.
This is a generalized meme. It's not really about anyone in particular. But tell me why this really engaged you and makes you feel like you need to challenge it. Perhaps you feel it fits closer than you'd like to believe? Does it remind you of something your parents said?
i don't disagree per se, but i also don't agree either, therapy doesn't solve problems, unless they're maladaptations, in which case it can be used to rectify them, otherwise it's providing functional coping mechanisms to people who need them for things that they simply cannot function around.
But there is also a discussion to be had around whether certain maladapted behaviors are even a problem to begin with. Because arguably there is a larger societal problem with how we treat individuals, which leads to what are classified and defined as problems, but in reality, might just be someone trying to engage in something that they can't engage in via healthy means. Alcohol and gamling aren't a thing for everybody for a reason, but apparently society is a thing for everyone all the time, and anything other than that is "bad"
Oh and also we need enough therapists, to be able to therapy everyone, currently we have significantly less than we need, and college turn out rates are lower as of recent, than just about anything else. So uh, good luck recommending what is probably a distant future solution? Because we certainly don't have enough people in the field now, and we definitely don't seem to have many people wanting to go into the field themselves.
men doing shit is them dealing with their feelings. it's not distraction.
men are not women. talk therapy doesn't work for them
Insane take. Just weirdly pushing a double standard for no reason.
Exactly, just like the meme posted above
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, no.
It probably does in many cases, but it's not the only way nor is it universal.
What we need is a society and environment that aligns with human nature.
Yes, I'm in therapy and I take meds. But I sure as fuck didn't need any therapy and meds during the 6 months I worked as a hiking and horseback riding guide in a Provincial Park in British Columbia.
Agreed. Most of us need therapy because we are in an aggressively hostile society. In a humane society, we'd only rarely need therapy when traumatic and rare events occurred, or similar instances.
i think it's less that men need therapy, though older men, particularly those above 30 probably do, the problem with young men right now is not therapy, it's a lack of societal engagement from them, presumably because society doesn't really know what to do with them, or doesn't really understand how to deal with shifting tides.
the problem isn't engagement, it's the lack of the fulfillment of the social contract.
what is the point in engaging for them if they aren't going to be rewarded with good jobs, homes, families, and a sense of progress and security? there isn't any. so they give up. at least the bottom half do. For the top quartile of men, those things are still on offer.
maybe?
I don't really like the traditional interpretation of social contract theory, it's very Pavlovian, which works, but seems rather dystopian. Works well for conceptualizing society, but doesn't build a productive one i think. Like you said, we need to give men something to do, something to work for, and something to enjoy. And outside of that, they need a place in society that they can exist, without limitation. Because currently, there isn't really a space for them. Arguably there isn't one for women either, so addressing both of those would be beneficial.
They weren't faulting the men. They were saying society itself has largely disengaged from young men.
As a mental health worker, if a client got involved with something like this, I'd be thrilled. This sounds like it provides purpose and community to all involved. Good for them!
I actually agree with you in many aspects. Something new that is being taught in therapy training is that we have to be aware of systemic issues that are contributing to someone's mental health.
Example: someone is suicidal and feeling hopeless. Do they have clinical major depressive disorder? Maybe, but if we ask "how are your finances doing?" And they say they work full time at Walmart and get paid $10 per hour and have 3 kids... Yeah it makes sense why they feel helpless and suicidal.
For this reason, therapists and mental health workers have a duty to advocate for progressive social policies.
In that I kind of agree with you. Many problems can be traced back to societal issues. Hell is other people. That's why we need to do better.
Sending those, damaged by society, to therapy is necessary, but we wouldn't be there if several root causes wouldn't exist.
Oversimplification, imo. But this is surely a contributing factor.
In one of my psych courses the professor noted a study (not sure of the source, this was closing in on twenty years ago now) that while psychotherapy had pretty good efficacy for certain things, it was equivalent with "talk openly with your friends about it" in most metrics. A therapist is great for providing specific strategies to address particular challenges (for issues like PTSD, for example, a therapist can help to manage an exposure therapy approach) but after a point you're kinda just paying through the nose for somebody to professionally emulate you having a healthy friendship with a well-adjusted person.
That is therapy
Doing something you enjoy ✅
Doing something with a community ✅
Doing something different to your normal routine ✅
therapy is anything you want it to be. there are 100s of styles, varieties, and etc.
therapy is whatever makes life worth living, in a broad sense, in a more narrow sense it's whatever improves your being day to day.
and according to some folks in this thread the only thing making life worth living is seeing a therapist... and you can't possibly be well adjusted if you don't.
that is what we call 'projection'.
this is what we call the "therapist industrial complex"
im kidding, but no seriously.
I've witnessed these old boys hanging out tinkering and chatting. The best kind of therapy.
No offense to you, but I definitely don't think this will address quite a few things that therapy can.
If all you are suffering from is a lack of direction in life, then this absolutely will help. You could even see improvements in social anxiety and social aptitude.
Anger problems, though? Alexithymia? Chronic episodes of mental dissociation? I don't think working on the train crew's gonna help
At the same time, It's definitely been conjected that therapy is mostly woman-focused and isn't as effective for men for various reasons. That kind of lines up with a few of my previous therapists, who felt like worthless experiences for me. I have heard of some new therapy styles implemented in certain places, though, that do sound to be genuinely helpful to dudes.
Edit: "social anxiety and social anxiety" woops
You make a decent point and illustrate by your "woman-focused" that there is a decided lack of professional therapists geared to male issues. This is why we have learned to find inner peace through creative activities. It lets us focus on the task instead of stewing on things over which we have little if any effect or control
I think most men have not learned to find inner peace and still suffer from closeted issues. The rate of suicide amongst men is still so high. There's definitely a bias we dudes who find hobby communities, where we assume that most dudes have found these spaces. I'd argue most dudes in the US are still suffering from isolation.
I don't think the fact that many therapists are 'woman-focused' is a reason to avoid therapy. You can still find a therapist that really helps. It may just take several tries. As I also mentioned, there are efforts to create methods that are more effective for men, and you can seek out those groups as well.
There is also still a strong stigma against seeking therapy, and I definitely see that argument about therapy being 'woman-focused' being thrown out as an excuse not to try therapy at all.
That is a hobby. A lovely one, but still a hobby. That is not therapy.
I'm not saying you can't gain insights into yourself or situations while doing that. It can most definitely help and be therapeutic. But therapy it is not
SO FUCKING WHAT?!?!? DO I NEED TO ASK PERMISSION TO HAVE A FUCKING HOBBY, YOUR MAJESTY??? JESUS CHRIST!!! (smashing noises and incoherent yelling from garage)
Sounds like somebody needs to go restore a train...
Men will literally pay someone to have a conversation about their feelings instead of restoring a train.
yeah what the fuck, go restore a train, it's preservation and gives something for your local community to enjoy!
Thank you for your wise words, o slayer of the ages.
my words are not wise my friend, they are simply the cultural glue that holds society together.
Without the past we wouldn't exist today, the moment you stop caring about history, everything goes bad.
People will bitch about anything someone else does that is therapeutic for them.
Learning to not do this was an important part of my mental health journey. I’ve come to realize I was raised by some very negative people. Very nice people that I see regularly, but always looking for something to complain about rather than something to appreciate.
I understand this to some extent. I however wasn't raised by nice people. When I cut contact with them I got better and discovered I didn't have to like something someone else did for it to be good for them.
Having a hobby and being part of a community is a very constructive, helpful, and effective way of beating back the isolation and despair that is killing so many young people.
fuck you, coal fired steam boilers, and steam engines are one of the coolest, and most technologically impressive things we have ever done throughout history. Only topped by the deep space probes currently hurtling to the middle of nowhere spaceland.
IDK, you hear about sliced bread? It's pretty nice.
slice bread is also pretty good. But that's nothing compared to what a steam engine can do given a bread slicer.
Presliced bread goes bad quicker and I also prefer a different slice thickness than what is usually offered. I don’t understand why it’s seen as such an achievement.
Nope. Good bread basically never comes in slices, and definitely not in the country that invented pre-sliced bread. You can get passable sliced bread in Germany but the good stuff definitely stays loaves at least until you buy it. I mean it's fine to slice it then and there if you have enough mouths to feed to have it finished by tomorrow.
I used to bring up that Diane Feinstein was older than sliced bread to point out her age... but now it's hard to say she is older. Need a new politician to rag on.
Have You heard about portable outhouses? God's gift to humanity!
that and hit or miss engines
idk man, i hate combustion based engines. They're cringe and unfunny.
Sorry, they can't hear you over all the CHOOO CHOOOO MOTHERFUCKEEEEEERRRR!!!
CRANKIN STEAMY HOGS WITH THE PACK
Who says instead? Seems like people with their heads on right
I think that's pretty cool, seems like a net positive for everyone, guy loves trains..guy fixes train...shares passion with community...more people love train. He wins, train wins, community wins.
No one wants to work, which is clearly a human trait despite the fact we do work like this constantly, across the board, for fun
Yeah, if I didn't have to spend time on a job, I'd spend some of that free time volunteering with habitat for humanity to build houses. I love doing that kind of shit.
What a weird fuckin take
Yeah, like you could say the exact same thing about gardening or painting or knitting. Taking up a hobby and learning how to do something can be really relaxing and beneficial to your mental health. Gender has nothing to do with it.
It is what it is
Is this a reference from another post today?
YOLO
I'd take that post over the bear.
Once upon a time there was a Little Engine that Could, that said "I think I can, I think I can!" Now it just says "It is what it is, it is what it is..."
And when another train complained, they sealed him in a tunnel, Cask of Amontillado style.
"I think he deserved his punishment, don't you?"
"What the fuck, Ringo?? NO, he didn't deserve to be trapped forever just for being kind of a dick!"
But is it what it is?
It could be
i think, in fact, it might be!
That it may
perhaps it is not what it is, but perhaps that is, what it was, because it was never specific about what is, and the time of was.
Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell.
as it is, is as it will be.
It's.
They dodge depression by doing something that brings joy to their hearts instead of constantly complaining about how depressed they are and how therapy is essential for everyone these days? How dare they!
It also preserves History.
I make off decently with how much my company pays for insurance. Would I rather have full universal health care though? You bet your ass
Everyone who does thing different from me literally has the emotional maturity of a toddler.
– A Toddler, 2024
I'm not following. Why is it being assumed this is to avoid therapy, and not just people doing an activity for fun?
Because man bad/woman bad
This format seems to always frame therapy as shitty, and the other thing as actually really cool, if complicated.
I doubt it's intentional, but seems anti men's mental health. And honestly, that situation is so fucked up beyond measure, that micro-aggressions like this meme format is really hurting the cause. My two cents.
Funny meme though.
Someone else here linked to knowyourmeme.
Most of them are glaringly obvious, some are meta. This one though can easily come across as "stuff closeted misandrists say to get a pat on the back" if you don't know the format. Flanked by a good dose of nerd shaming.
I mean it's true, men will literally comment on the internet before going to therapy. We will also literally tie our shoelaces before going to therapy.
You know what, this is a good thing. This time actually reading the knowyourmeme article, they're a parody reaction thing. Some 20, 30 years ago a new pattern of insult cropped up here in Germany, things like Warmduscher and Schattenparker, "someone who takes warm showers", "someone who parks in the shadow". They were never meant literally-literally, but they did come up with a definite air of "you should be toughing it out", "being a bit sensitive about things aren't we". They were quickly balanced out by things like Drahtseilbungeespringer, roughly "steel cable bungee jumper".
Humour is serious business and usually the best weapon against shittiness we have, and if occasionally we have things that can be misinterpreted, like here, overall it's still worth it.
It's a meme, guys.
You know what is better than crying and taking mind altering drugs? Not needing either.
I know this is a joke post (at least I really hope it is) but why are some women so against men being happy? Like they want do to everything in their power to take away "guy stuff" it's not enough that they don't have to go. But the fact they don't like it means that no one else should and men are wrong because they do something women don't.
I strongly believe that men's mental health is positively impacted by male groups. But women don't want men to have male groups. Women can obviously! That goes without saying. But men. No, not allowed they should be ashamed of themselves.
I think it's a really issue in society and you never ever hear women criticise women's role in negatively impacting men. But somehow I bet this is all the patriarchy's fault
I dont even know how you got the upvotes this post has, but this is just crazy talk!
Maybe you only know women who are bad people
Of course they are. The point is it is normalised and that's the issue.
Women telling men what they should do, what they shouldn't do, how everything in their life is other men's fault and no one else's. All perfectly acceptable.
If we want men to be happier mentally we should start by asking men what they need. What we shouldn't do is get women to tell then what they need. Also women need to take responsibility for the negative things they do, why should they get a free pass to mistreat people? Just because they aren't "part of the patriarchy"?
Like I seen this the other day. Some guy talking about what makes him happy and he gets told he's sad for doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/ZwELEUQKcwkpvdVc/?mibextid=xCPwDs
My point is, women dont do things like that. The wrong type of women do though.
I have been in the same relationship for 15 years and my partner and I respect what we do and support each others interests. Its the same with our friends. Some times we'll meet people in dysfunctional relationships and try to help. But in the end its up to people to decide what they accept
They're speaking about their experience and you just completely dismissed it as "women don't do things like that, the wrong type of women do."
I recall a man/bear hypothetical being posted recently and any man that said "not all men" was shouted down and called a misogynistic rape apologist or worse.
When someone speaks about their lived experiences it's best to just listen and acknowledge, not try to defend shitty people.
I don't know if you assume that I am a woman, or you are trying to make me cheer for the bear.
I understand that people have personal experiences that can be hard and even unbearable, to even talk about, but that does not justify one saying that men are like that and women are like this. I understand that it is important to share about ones lived experiences but also important not to make conclusions about all humanity based on the few people you have had a relationship to
We agree it's important not to judge an individual based on the actions of a group. It unfortunately happens all the time.
(EDIT: misread and therefore misinterpreted the parent comment. Thought, it was a generalisation on all women. Striked out relevant sections here.)
"They" aren't."They" don't.That's a bizarre perception you have there.Having a supportive peer group, regardless of gender, can be helpful, yes.
Where tf do you get that from?Are you mixing two different things now? Feminism and men's mental health?
Regarding the latter, patriarchy is not necessarily a cause for this. It's rather male role models and toxic masculinity. Countless of men worldwide are raised in a way which is unhealthy for their mental state. "Don't cry! That's what girls do! Don't be such a baby!" Those men don't learn how to deal with their issues and emotions. They develop several kinds of problems as a result of that. Either a drug addiction problem like drinking, and/or spiraling down depression until they kill themselves, get anger issues or whatever. The suicide rate in men is higher as in women due to stuff like that. They have never learned that it's okay to ask for help. They are rather being shamed for feeling low.
That's what this post makes a pun about: a lot of such men rather find some coping mechanisms instead of dealing with their issues. They seek distractions. That's not necessarily a bad thing per se, but, in the larger scale of seeing how many men avoid dealing with their shit, it can certainly become one.
It's certainly not about women wanting to take "guy stuff" away, wtf. Oo
Where I come from men's clubs are illegal. So yes, like it or not it's already been proven to have happened.
I like how you think know what all women have ever done though. My housemates was telling that what me and the members of our rugby club get up to at our own private bar, singing, drinking and fucking about with each other isn't okay. That although we are all their voluntarily and they we all very much enjoy it, and its good for our mental health, it shouldn't be allowed. In fact she said if it was up to her a lot of sport would be banned.
Here's a genuine question. Why do you, my housemates, other women think they know absolutely what is best for mental mental health when it goes against what men even say?
I've got a lot more support from men than I have from women. And I've seen guys get a lot more hurtful abuse from women than I have from men. But that goes against the narrative that all issues in the world are caused by the patriarchy and that women can do no wrong.
If the suicide rate is so high for men maybe we should start by asking men what they need? How would having women telling them everything that they have done wrong a good thing?
What women cannot understand is men are different to women. We act in a different way to you and that's perfectly okay. What is not okay is women telling men how they need to act.
Also if you want to do a bit of reading go find all the questions on the internet to the effect of "why don't you open up to your girlfriend" and you can hear all the horrific ways women use men's vulnerability against them. You can see the general consensus being that more often than not opening up to women makes things worse because of how women react to a vulnerable man and that if you need to talk about problems do it with men.
But again that goes against the feminist argument that men's issues are only to do with toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. But lol what do men know about their issues own issues? Nothing.
This is not a well adjusted person. Banning things other people like but that you don’t like… she could fit right in with the Trump crowd.
I just wanted to point that out. This isn’t me arguing with you by cherry picking one sentence out of your big post.
Could you provide more context please? Where is it you come from where men's clubs are illegal? And what are the reasons for them being illegal?
First of all, I'm sorry. It seems I've misread your comment. I thought you were generalising, which I find usually wrong to do. Especially in such rather sensitive contexts like these. That's why I've put "they" in quotation marks in my previous comment in order to counter that generalisation. But after re-reading, I've noticed that you've written "some women" not women in general. So I'm going to revise that part. (After I've sent this comment I will also strike the coresponding sections in my previous comment.)
Regarding your experience with your housemate, needless to say that this was shitty of her and certainly not a meaningful approach to improve mental health of men.
I'm not sure whether it's relevant now anymore to reply to the remaining parts of your response, but I'll do so anyway in case this is still relevant to you:
I don't claim to know what is best. But I claim that there are detrimental mindsets deeply rooted into our society which is severly problematic for the mental health of men. That's what's usually also refered to as "toxic masculinity". For different reasons I therefore think that a shift in how we are raising men and dealing with men's mental health is necessary. Those reasons include, but are not limited to, the following:
I have no issues in accepting that in other men or people in general. To the contrary, I encourage everyone not to feel ashamed about how they feel, that it's okay, etc.. Because I know from first hand experience how bad this can be, especially if you've got a lot of other issues anyway.
To avoid a misunderstanding, let me make one thing very clear:
I am not against men having their "guy stuff", meeting in their interest groups and doing the stuff they like together. To the contrary, this is really good stuff! It's much better than sitting alone in the dark like a lot of depressed people do, myself included. It is usually very beneficial and helpful. (Depending of course also on stuff like the "social battery" of individuals.)
Psychological therapy for depression is in some parts also about finding what someone brings joy and developing some base stabilisation which helps them to go for that. In other words, men, who go to therapy, are also asked what they would like to do, what makes them feel good and so on. And therapists can help to enforce such mentally beneficial behaviours. Having a functioning social life is certainly one of the big factors. Distraction is also not always bad, it is also sometimes even encouraged. Now comes the,
But:
If men, despite enjoying such things, have concurrent issues, and such distractions and activies rather become a manifestation of "running away" or avoidance in general, those issues usually won't go away. Those issues will still linger and for each passing day may get worse and worse until those people - and this is regardless of gender - develop further dysfunctionalities which become increasingly difficult to deal with. And with men, as I said, it is usually difficult to get them to "deal with their stuff" due such reasons as toxic masculinity. Heck, it took over a decade until I got myself to seek therapy and I am angry with myself that I didn't do it much earlier.
Going on:
Good for you, that you got supportive men around you! Women are also people and people can be assholes. I'm sorry for you and the other guys who have seen abuse.
That certainly depends on the people though. Be among toxic men, get rekt. Be among toxic women, get rekt. Be among nice and empathetic men/women, and it's the other way around. However, toxic masculinity is a thing and there is plenty of evidence that men have usually more issues with dealing with their issues than women. As I've noted in my other comment before, that doesn't necessarily has a causal relation relationship. You can have patriarchy, which systematically treats women as "less" in various aspects, and you can have toxic masculinity, where men and sometimes also women make life hard for other men. The one does not necessarily cause the other as they can, but must not, co-exist independently.
I think the one take-away for everyone is: don't be an asshole.
The problem is, that a lot of men don't talk much about what they need, though. It's difficult to even get them there. But if they do, then sure, as long as we can make sure that such behaviour is not that kind of avoidance I mentioned earlier. Women are raised differently and are therefore usually (not generally) better in dealing with such issues and providing empathetic support. However, I don't think we should listen to one gender only, as gender alone does not necessitate virtue. Regarding mental health, I think we should listen to two parties: 1. the affected person and 2. the experts, which are mostly psychologists.
I'm sure that there are a plethora of women out there who don't have issues in understanding that men and women are different. That's an uncautious generalisation of you there.
Also, I'm a man, my dude. ;)
"One telling the other how to act" must not be a bad thing if it comes from a good place. If we regularly see how men are systematically struggling worse than women with mental health issues, then it's surely in their best interest to start pushing for beneficial changes. What those changes are, should be left to the experts though, and not to gender differences among people. Despite that, I think that it wouldn't hurt if a lot of men (those, struggling with opening up and dealing with their issues) would take some inspiration from women or people in general who have it easier with that.
Well, that's surely shitty. But not the general consensus I noticed, nor the one observed in studies. Mind that looking for such questions is already a bias in the data itself. We can already estimate intuitively that those, who talk about difficulties in talking to their girlfriend/spouse are more likely to be in a toxic relationship itself or in one where miscommunication on both sides may be a problem. Look for the same question the other way around and you'll probably get a similar picture. This also doesn't equate to all the cases where such interactions with women don't have negative outcomes. Mainly, because people usually don't go on the internet and tell them how well their relationship is or how much they enjoyed talking to their women-friends. So, to get the full picture, representative surveys must be conducted. This also fully neglects the plethora of men who don't even talk at all to anyone, which is, as far as I know, the much higher number of cases.
My local Old trains club owns 3 Museums and about 100 km of railway... There has to be a lot to unpack.
And get more out of it too
Just gonna link this, for the oblivious among us: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/instead-of-going-to-therapy
I ride my bike. It's great for just switching off. The weather is normally pretty awful where I am but in the sun in the summer it's amazing.
Hang on I'm going to need some help here I appear to have got myself into a logical loop.
I'm not depressed so I can't play with trains but now I'm sad that I can't play with trains. So I can play with trains? But now I'm not depressed anymore. So I guess I have to stop? Which makes me sad.