So for those who can’t have a PSN account the failure was on them for buying the game anyway, since it was included on the store page, terms, and shows up on launch. Now, I agree they should get a refund if it locks them out the game. For the rest of the caterwauling, what will they do when Steam denies their refund after playing 200hours? Boycott Steam?
File a complaint with your local government body, I believe in Australia it is illegal to break a game after the fact. To substantially change how it runs to hold it hostage.
But even in other jurisdictions, even 1, 000 disgruntled gamers filing small claims against arrowhead would consume an outsized amount of resources to respond to.
Make noise, be disgruntled, don't play the game, file a negative review, create busy work for the perpetrators. They're stealing time and money from you, it's fair to do it to them. But legally
I’ve been called worse by better people. People who don’t read things that they are agreeing to and then complain they don’t like it after the fact should take the lesson and move on.
If your replying to this thread on mobile, I would like to remind you that you never read the EULA to your phone either (this would have taken several hours for android and slightly less for iOS) . You just saw the blurp "accept terms and conditions" and moved on with your life like everyone else did. There is no expectation to read usage contracts for small, non-bussiness purchases.
Also, your opposition to this discourse is futile... The ball is in Sony/Arrowheads court. We will see if they compromise with players in eastern europe, or double down to become the next Battlefront 2 (pride and accomplishment yall!). As for me, ill let the paint dry and move on if I feel they resolved this poorly. Lets see if EDF6 can stick the landing.
It wasn’t hidden in some legalese riddled document. It was listed on the store page on the right side where they put all the requirements for outside accounts. I get there are people who don’t want to have to install other launchers and make other accounts, but it was there. To complain that they are now enforcing it when it was obviously disclosed and claim it was a bait and switch are wrong.
Should they have sold it to countries Sony doesn’t serve? Obviously not.
In general, even as a company, in most of the civilized world, you don't get to just write stuff in some ToS and fuck around. Consumer protection agencies do care about this.
It's not in either terms linked on the steam store page. There's no mention of a requirement to use PSN's networks or to link your steam and PSN account in either EULA. It's ONLY the banner on the steam page. And nothing in game makes it clear that skipping the login is only a temporary thing.
This is the reason I didn't buy the game, but people bought it and now they're angry they're enforcing it?
You're totally right, except for the people from the countries that don't get PSN. How is it legal to sell them the game in the first place if they can't meet the requirements to play? Scummy move.
The devs themselves have asked users to review bomb their own game on their discord. Your not standing up for them, your standing for Sony and Sony alone.
It's not in the EULAs pertaining to this game, and Sony changed their PC Games FAQ on May 3rd after the announcement that PSN would be required, meaning the FAQ people read when they bought the game is different from the one Sony is trying to enforce.
"anyone who disagrees with me are part of the 'hive mind', the only way to not be part of a hive mind is if you agree with all the things I believe. You know, like some sort of hive mind."
Nah man, it's just a bunch of individuals that happen to agree that you're an idiot.
Review bombing is getting people to review something a certain way without them having have experienced the thing.
Basically a small group think their own opinion is so important, they try to convince as many people as possible to vote the same to make it seem more people share their opinion.
These reviews were from players who actually played the game and got affected by the changes. It isn't review bombing, their opinions are valid.
Not really, at least on Wikipedia the page for review bombing and the one listing significant ones make no distinction between actually having played the game/watched the movie or not.
I am curious how this is going to effect the number of active players. I know a lot of people who were trying to get me to play this saying it was here to stay and not a trend like a Lethal Company but I feel like this hurdle might be enough to get them to give up.
I definitely have a low level of tolerance for Russian nesting dolls of accounts and launchers.
They fumbled a (bigger) bag with this whole dungeon master Joel meme. This will be the last straw for many.
The player base is tearing itself apart with conservatives getting genuinely furious about the Creek incident and team-killing participants on sight while everyone else just wants to have fun playing the game.
With things like these you need to lean HARD away from the idiot fascists in all media out of game. They did not, and are reaping the consequences.
What in the world happened? I played a lot in the first few weeks and remember the Creek situation as just being some people who played that planet constantly. How tf did real world politics come into that situation specifically?
Yeah I know about that, like I indicated in my comment up there. How in the world do conservatives factor into that situation? That's what the commentor above said and I'm curious.
Yeah even if some people keep playing. Someone like myself who was entertaining of getting it would be turned off by seeing negative reviews (why go through the drama if I’m on the fence?).
Vocal minority is the assumption when this sort of collective outrage manifests. This time though, thanks to Steam player count we will actually get some hard numbers and see if that has an effect or not.
At current, there are 32k negative reviews. That's 32,000 people angry enough to go add or modify a review to be negative. The active player base is 100k. As far as "vocal minority" goes...
I bought the game on release week. I don't play often but when I do it's with friends. After hearing about this incident my plan was to wait a few days or a week to see how it resolves before deciding if I want to refund the game. However, enough of my friends have already refunded the game that, if they don't come back, I likely won't be playing much if at all anyway so I'll probably refund the game this week as well, especially if nothing changes.
I signed into an old PSN account when I first downloaded the game near launch. It is in game. No launcher. I signed in once and forgot about it until right now. Not really a big deal. If your worried about security make some bogus email up and make an account that way. But other than signing in one time it hasn't been a deal. 🤷♂️
I play with a couple of friends in the Baltics. I have PSN. There is no PSN in the Baltics. So I guess I can't play with the friends I solely bought this game for.
Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's silly to complain about this.
Hopefully Sony will see this as the biggest problem and do something about it. I don't think these people should have been able to spend money on this for it to be taken away, but that's a storefront issue as well. Steam and Sony will have to make some decisions about this, cause it wasn't thought out and implemented very well. They should've had some stronger safeguards.
I didn't get the game because it's packed full of all the terrible corporate stuff you see in terrible corporate games. Always Online, Rootkit anticheat, in-game store to purchase items when the game is already expensive. I doubt adding "must give your information to Sony" is going to be the tipping point for anyone who is fine with everything else.
Why does a fully cooperative game needs an anti-cheat software in the first place. I don't give a fuck about cheaters as long as its not competitive. Deep rock galactic for example works great without all of this bullshit.
To prevent people from spawning in unreleased content that is in the game, giving their group the maximum cap of in-game currency, and so on. Tamps down on the boosting market.
Exactly. That's why I play with cross play off on PS5, but I also think PC players shouldn't get locked out if they can't make an account in their country, so in my eyes that's the big fuck up. And it's Sony's fault, not Arrowhead. They should foot the community wrath and the remedy.
If i happen to encounter such stuff, i just leave. And for stuff like moneycheat that would affect my savegame, DRG for example provides a couple of backupsaves to roll back. So i can easily avoid being affected by cheaters and if others want to cheat, i just don't mind. But i would mind having to install a rootkit of questionable origin.
Crossplay is mandatory, and linking an account for crossplay was always mandatory, they had issues at launch, paused the requirement, and are now reestablishing it.
Thats kinda on them, or for Steam for selling it in their location, but they probably bypassed that to get the game.
From launch until now, creating a PSN account was optional due to technical issues. And while this wasn't properly conveyed to the playerbase, the game was sold in tons of regions where you straight up can't make a PSN account. Something like 50+ out of 123 regions where the game was sold cannot make PSN accounts. And using a VPN or lying about your region to make an account is a bannable offense.
The privacy complaints I have more of an issue with since GameGuard, the DRM used, is just as much, if not more, of a privacy issue compared to Sony's horrible data security and invasive data harvesting. GameGuard has kernel level access to the entirety of your system while it's running, usually installs itself as an on boot up background process, and has been caught by anti-virus software editing files outside of the game directory.
The first is a genuinely refund worthy issue, if not a class-action lawsuit in the making, while the second one is people being ignorant to how much data they're actually giving away.
I’m curious how you are so bold to say something as patently false as your first sentence with such confidence knowing that anyone with the game can deactivate it in settings and it works without a PSN account anyway.
This is on PC and unlike some other ported PS games I don't think there is an option to play offline I imagine a lot of people are going to be creating PSN accounts I'd say that's a hurdle for some people.
Yes. Their platform, their security. Their failure to secure their users data is solely their fault. Notice that other platforms don't have this issue. You'd think after the first one, they'd fucking pony up and take security seriously. Sony didn't learn anything.
If it was just one event, I'd advocate for leniency. But Sony doesn't get that from me.
The last two were because Sony was storing personal data. This store made them a target.
Like the personal data they require when you sign up to PSN to play Helldivers 2.
If they don't collect data, they wouldn't be such a juicy target. So, yes, it is partly their own fault because they took the known risk of storing personal information.
They played with fire and got burned ... more than once.
Deserved. It's just not necessary. Think, why would a multi-billion dollar company want you to sign up for some other service, even if it's free? Because they want your data, and they want to sell it.
Theoretically their community management tools are based on PSN, which does make some sense. This is the official reason for it. Of course they're also hoovering up all your data to sell also. That's the reason that gives them more money, so the real reason.
You say that, but it clearly worked here. And, for live service games in general, playing The Waiting Game™ lets you see how bullshit said live service ends up becoming after a awhile.
I was waiting until some sort of offline mode since I've been burned by The Crew, I don't think it's happening considering how anal they are being about a PSN account.
Good for you? The post isn't about people like us playing on PlayStation, it's about people like my buddies I play with that thought they were good to go with their steam accounts and are now being railroaded a few months later by having to give their data to PSN, who is notorious for not managing said data well.
"It's in the ToCs", you might say, which is only highlighting a broader issue where you basically have to wade through pages of legal bullshit to just play a game you bought and not get fucked by the EULA.
They're mandating you have a playstation account to play on PC. That was always in the terms, and on the steam page, but you didn't have to. Until very recently.
And if you don't live in one of the 65 countries where PSN operates, you can go fuck yourself, because your game just stopped working.
Can’t you just use an US account though? I don’t mean to say that this isn’t a major issue as it is, but are you really blocked from linking it? I don’t live in the US but I have a us pen account since forever
I’m aware of this, but I’ve never heard of this being enforced outside of people trying to use credit cards of other regions, and they only resulted on temporary suspensions.
My question is on the enforcement of the linking. Does it stop you from doing something like this?
Also worth point out that up until yesterday, Sony said a PSN account wasn't it required to play games games on PC. They changed it shortly after the backlash.
Look, I got hit with that stupid 2011 data breach PSN had and I still get scam emails with details from that due to the unique stuff I put in my various accounts. I'm not going to try to resurrect my now defunct account or create a new one so they can do more data mining and lose more of my PII, again.
I'm not sure how requiring an account in addition to the Steam account is enshittification. Especially given that it was intended to be the case from the start, but they temporarily disabled it due to technical issues.
That sounds like deliberate deception. That's far shittier than being up front. They should have made a PS account optional. Cyberpunk does this, you don't need an account to launch the game.
It's completely unnecessary, PlayStation accounts aren't available in many countries which would make the game inaccessible to people who already bought it if it's mandatory, and Sony has averaged a data breach every two years for the past 15 years so people don't want to give them any personal data.
man I think people can take things too far and act like drama queens sometimes but yeah, forcing another unnecessary account onto people is enshitification
Point being, a relatively similar-themed co-op title that has paid DLC cosmetics, but wasnt fundamentally crippled by allowing modding and cheats (albeit in sandboxed environments)
Yeah, that had me already decided that if I did get it, it would be on ps5 not pc. Though this move will probably make me do that in general for any ps exclusive game they make a pc port of.
i don’t even care about making the account, it’s just a throwaway email and password, but the rug pull for players from other countries isn’t fair at all
no shit a bunch of my friend picked it up last month and were bugging me to buy it and join them. I get paid today and had planned on buying this weekend.
but I ain't got a playstation or PSN account so ima hold off. im not sure all of my friends do either, for that matter. back to modded CP2077 it is!
Context for those who didn’t live through it: Sony intentionally compromised the PCs of its customers to install a mechanism by which to prevent music piracy. There’s a lot more to it but you can read about here:
Either go indie or start pirating shit. Wanted to play Fallout the other day, but Microsoft/Bethesda just broke all the mods on PC for an update that doesn't really do anything on PC. Had to get an older pirate copy to play a game I legit purchased. At some point, I just gave up.
It only got this popular partly because of the lack of a PSN account to play. Developer said they had somewhere between 5 and 20 times the number of players they expected.
I'm not going to. Ultimately, Sony is a megacorp and I'm just one dude. I'll simply voice my displeasure to people inquiring about them, and never trust a Sony product or promise in my life again. They probably won't give 2 shits, and I'm fine with that.
Just like claiming that logging into PSN as mandatory would be negated by the fact that they told people to skip it in order to play when the game launched? Since you know... their servers were having problems and disabled the check for it?
But to that point. This "mandatory login" isn't in either Sony ToS on the steam store for this game.
This is also a sad look into the reality of how people buy stuff. Every single one of those complaints didn’t read the requirements. How many buy the game and can’t even run the thing as well…
The weirdest part is how the game was sold in tons of regions where you can't even make a PSN account. That sounds refund worthy, at least, if not a class-action lawsuit in the making.
Yeah I feel like people also forget you can still return games out of the two hour window for legit reasons. Would be a bad look for Steam to deny those refunds at least.
Was it though? It was full steam ahead even in the early days when the servers were overwhelmed in what seemed like a classic case of the dishoom effect.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fine game, but I think folk got carried away.
I guess what I am saying is it was organic. Cyberpunk and many other games that are hyped are hyped because of marketing campaigns done by the the studio. People get the game, it sucks, and people are mad.
This game just existed, the community decided it was awesome and got their friends to get in on it and so on. It blew up because it was fun to play and the the devs weren't shitbags. The devs didn't expect it to blow up the way it did, thats why the servers sploded.
This game blew up organically, due to players experience. I am still having a blast
It's no accident that many of these games are releasing their anti-features only after millions have purchased them and missed their return window.
EA did the same recently with Kernel anti-cheat in games they haven't serviced in years, games that actively cannibalise their latest titles!
Less players means less server running costs. Helldivers 2 might turn back or end up with this disastrous policy (for consumers) but until we have regulations on this, many companies will see the benefit of rugpulling software.
Can someone explain what is the big deal of creating a Playstation account? I know they've added the requirement retroactively, and I know everyone wants steam to be it's own thing, but this is not really a unique situation.. I have a lot of games across many publishers that have their own useless accounts tied to it. What makes this different?
its past the refund window, PSN only allows 69 countries to make an account, so 66% of the countries in the world are simply not able to make an account at all. Depending on how things shake out, those players will be locked out of hell divers.
If this hadn't been retroactive, then our gaming brothers from i.e. the Philippines would have bought the game, tried to run it, hit the wall, and refunded it... sucks but they wouldn't have lost time or money.... but now... they lose both.
Ah see, that's the context I needed. Thank you. Outside a refund window or not - if I were in a country that got locked out, steam had better be real gracious with their refunds. That scenario is unacceptable. Strange that PSN restricts themselves geographically.. they absolutely should have thought of that before allowing the game to be sold in those countries.
Yeah, I'm sure some executive is trying to pump up "active monthly" PSN users for some political, KPI, or share evaluation purposes. We kind of expect them to play these games, its the retroactive bit that's surprising here.
This isn’t something they tried to sneak past people, they were upfront about the issues and said there would be a grace period before they implemented the pairing originally planned at launch.
The big deal is that you are now forced to create an account with yet another service and give them analytics about your behavior, for literally no benefit to you.
Even though this is widely accepted, this is just not okay in any case. Not when Ubisoft did it, not now.
I bet you $20 he made that comment either from his android phone or from chrome on a Windows PC. OH NO, I suddenly care about my gaming history being collected by Sony. You dont even have to install 3rd party software, it is an in-game link. No standalone launcher like most games nowadays.
This is no different than your other games with useless.one off accounts. That's the problem. They all are a problem. I bought red dead 2 and refunded it as soon as I was required to create a rockstar account. It serves no purpose to me, I don't need it or want it. If we don't push back these useless account things will keep being added.
And retroactive add is a massive problem. They took people's money then screwed them after. It sets the precedent that this is acceptable if people just take it.
What's next? Removing areas and features of games after release for something that you paid for?
PSN accounts, in particular, are pretty bad. In some places, they require a photo ID in order to make an account, and in many regions of the world, you can't make one at all. Something like 50 of the regions where the game was sold can't make PSN accounts, and using a VPN to make an account or lying about your region is a bannable offense.
It's a valid concern, both from paying for something that you can't even use and a privacy perspective.
Can someone explain what is the big deal of creating a Playstation account?
I see other comments have covered some of the issues, I don't see this one.
April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users
May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen
June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts
November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures
August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts
September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack
October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach
Basically Sony's been caught before not securing anything. So people don't want to deal with them. So for this to be retroactively pushed on users months later is a solid concern. To be forced to give Sony more data than is actually required to run the game (as we've proven it isn't needed for months now). Is literally just handing it to the next hackers that access Sony's shit.
Yeah this is all fair. I don't give anyone or anything personally identifiable information, and wouldn't suggest it. Just fill it out with fakes and move on.
It seems a lot of people did not realize that this was an initial requirement when the game first launched, but it was suspended while they figured out server and stability issues.
That was never mentioned in a meaningful way on my purchasing platform, or in the game. At no point was I told that I was only temporarirly allowed to play without a PSN account, and that the entire game would be locked down months later unless I created and linked one. Were that the case, I would have refunded on day 1.
It was deactivated while they were trying to sort out the server instability issues in the beginning. They announced it would eventually return, and it's the main reason why the friends list has been messed up.
I don't think I've ever seen a game on Steam with "Overwhelmingly Negative" reviews before. Usually "Mixed" is already a good indicator to leave your hands off a game.
That's because there's a review count requirement for both the extremely good and the extremely negative level. So you can't buy your own game, review it, and have it be overwhelmingly positive because the only review is positive. Thing is, bad games tend to not get bought by many people, so overwhelmingly negative is rare. So yes, mixed reviews are already damming.
So I bought the game in PS store. Installed it and went to play just to remember I need to pay for a subscription. Uninstalled and never looked back. I dropped my subscription in December and PS won't give me a reason too return. Maybe I can get GTA 5 for the 20th time for "free."
I'm bummed I missed my window to return it through steam. I downloaded it, gave it a couple tries and just couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be doing or when the fun was supposed to start. I couldn't figure out how to play with other people or what guns I was supposed to use against whatever enemy. None of it made sense and seemed like it was all just hype with no substance. It's still in my library, but I don't think it'll ever get a reinstall. I wish I could just gift it to someone else
Have you tried watching any videos that explain how to play or talking to anyone in your squad when you play online? It's a game meant to be played as co-op, not really solo.
Assuming you aren't trolling... If you want to try again, how to play with others is really simple. In the world map, you can press "R" to quick play and it will put you in a mission with a couple people in it. You can also throw a SOS during the mission (idk if it works if you set matchmaking to friends only in settings, try making it public).
I watched a few gameplay videos, but nothing educational. I was just looking for a demo to see what it played like and figured the game would guide me the rest of the way. I'm being completely honest, I never figured out how to play with anyone else. I went to the main room, picked my mission, shot down by myself and died repeatedly. I never thought to try the quick play option. I promise I'm not trolling or trying to yuck anyone else's yum, I just don't think I'm made for the game or the game is made for me.
I definitely appreciate the info you gave me. If I ever do decide to give it another shot, I'll keep that information in mind, but I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon. I've got plenty of other games in my library to keep me busy without this weird learning curve
When I bought the game it wouldn't let me play without creating an account, and that was over a month ago. I guess the requirement is only just now rolling out for the majority of players?
Mainly micro transactions. Though its not as bad as other games i don't agree with them being in games that cost money. If they are going to be added i think the game should be free. Its mainly a critique of online gaming in its current state.
The gameplay was not my kind of game but that's more of a personal preference than it being a bad game. I watched a ton of gameplay and had friends stream it to me and it looked very dull. He came across a lot of bugs while playing too such as clipping through the map forcing him to restart the entire mission.
I know but id prefer it not being there to begin with as its a slippery slope. Its much more fun to earn loot than grind for coins or pay for them to get the skin.
The micro-transactions barely exist and was easy be bought with premium currency found in the game. There are paid battle passes but none of the items within give you much of an edge over anyone else, and those battle passes also award premium currency which can be used to buy the next battle pass. They’re not timed, either. You can buy one battle pass and sit in it for a year before completing it.
As far as MTX go, they’re the most inoffensive I’ve ever seen in a game.
I understand. I just prefer them to not be there at all. Ill only buy extra in a game if its in the form of a dlc that adds great content for example the following dlc for dying light or liberty city stories for GTA 4. Buying weapons and cosmetic feels cringe to me
It was shit anyway. Never got it in the first place. If anything its just reassured me that online games cannot be trusted and will eventually bait and switch
Edit: especially if the rights are owned by a publisher
Lol, it's still got hundreds of thousands playing.
Theres some angry outrage for sure, but it don't think it's gonna wind up that bad in the end.
It's annoying, but it's like an Origin account for an EA game or something. At least with crossplay, having one admin team to manage bans on both platforms makes sense to streamline things.
How do you think bans are working right now? You realize that you don't HAVE to have an account. All they do is assign a mirrored account to your steam ID on PSN. Or even just assign you a random one in general.
Nothing about this process streamlines anything any further, they're already doing it.
I know. I'm going to be playing tonight. I didn't bat an eye at this announcement... Mainly because it's been known since day one. People are acting like this is new information. And I don't care if less people play. Still will have plenty of players. I play with cross play turned off on PS5 to avoid cheaters anyway... so this literally isn't going to change anything for me.
They already sold many times more than they ever expected.
Then VAC ban the steam account since you sold on steam. The game worked fine for months after launch without requiring a PlayStation account and would continue to work fine otherwise.
The most major issue is that BECAUSE they didn't enforce a tiny part of their terms of use that is a dealbreaker for most users, those users will now be unable to refund the game due to steam's "2 hours playtime = no refund" rule
The most major issue is that BECAUSE they didn't enforce a tiny part of their terms of use that is a dealbreaker for most users, those users will now be unable to refund the game due to steam's "2 hours playtime = no refund" rule
It was required from the start, why are buying something without knowing if it will even run first? Its hilarious the amount of people defending something that’s people’s own stupidity.
Quite the sad reflection of reality unfortunately.
Because if it doesn't run, you won't get 2 hours of playtime and steam will refund it. Stop defending corporate greed on a social media platform DESIGNED to get away from corporate greed.
So let me make a game that will work for exactly 3 hours and break. It's the same concept here. They made the game. It worked for months. Now magically it won't.
I don't have a PSN account. I was able to log in and play without using a PSN account. At no point was I told that a PSN account would be required to play. My very reasonable assumption. Is that the PSN account requirement was listed for crossplay, or managing socials with PS players. If the game had not worked from day one, or if I had been notified in the game that this was merely a temporary solution, and that I would be unable to play at all in the coming months, then I would have refunded without even trying.
So no, despite what the little label said, PSN account was not required to play the game. It worked fine without the PSN account.
In an ideal world, the requirement would be removed. Since the availability of the game has arbitrarily changed a lot in the last 2 days, Sony should at least offer full refunds and an apology to the community.
I don't need to make an excuse. You're making excuses, even more pathetic, you're making excuses for a megacorp trying to datamine their customers by changing the conditions for use of the game that they already bought.
Nah brother. Because it's in the TOS doesn't make it OK, and in some cases, even legally enforceable.
Why are you sticking up for some arbitrary shitty corporate decision and feel the need to shift the blame to people who bought, and now supposedly OWN, the game?
I can respect it if you're doing it for money, we all gotta eat. But if it's for free, you're just an ass
You’re playing on Sonys servers, they need a way to enforce a ban when you are a dick. On steam if they ban your account, you make a new one, and family share the game bypassing the ban.
This is Sonys servers, it’s their rules, no different than needing a Steam account to play Steam games. This isn’t something out of the ordinary….
I’m not sticking up for or defending anything, people are just too fucking stupid to read requirements before buying things, and now you being just as stupid defending the stupid people doing this lmfao.
It’s Sonys servers, of course it requires an account….
So the only way to ban dicks is for them to have a PSN account? That ain't it my brother.
Wow… how do they ban all your other accounts unless steam vac bans you for a Sony ban? Don’t you think that would be an entire other issue…? Get your steam if banned, make a new account and family share it, bypassing Sonys ban with now way of the knowing…. Yeah that’s a fucking problem.
Sony servers, sure, just release a server binary, let others host it and offload all infrastructure costs! Massive savings!
Uhhh… you understand the concept of this game… yeah…?
Don't suck corporate ass man, cmon.
You couldn’t be making a bigger idiot of yourself right now.
What? Sony can only ban a steam id, how’s Sony supposed to know you’re family sharing to another account? And you don’t need to buy a new game to family share, that’s the entire issue.
You can bypass banning without linked accounts due to steams policies, maybe if steam would issue a vac ban for a sony ban, but people would be even more up in arms about that.
Back when the new family sharing rules came out, I remember reading something about how developers could opt out of family sharing. That’s what I was referencing.
I’d be interested to know if that’s Sony or steams mistake selling them in those markets. Or isn’t that developer controlled? So maybe the devs fucked up by not restricting the sales, they said they knew about Sonys requirements.
You know your not being snarky big dev defender saying this right? You are aware the actual devs, the creators of the game have asked people to review bomb it. This is the major order right now. It's to give the devs leverage to get Sony to back the fuck off.
Spitz is also the pos who told people to just refund and leave. Now they wre doing damage control acting like they are on the players side. The devs are not the good guys here just smart enough to act like they are
I really couldn't care. It's as easy as using making an account. People really have nothing else better to do with their lives. In fact, most people do, that's why steam charts haven't reflected any change.
You realize about 1/3 of all players physically cannot make a PSN account, right? This isn't just 'gamers having nothing better to do with their lives', it's an actual legal and economic issue.
Breaking peoples games after 4 months will do that
Nothing is broken, people are choosing to not abide by the terms they accepted to when the bought the game.
https://hackertalks.com/comment/3633295
I do not think enough people are aware of the limits to who can make the newly required accounts.
So for those who can’t have a PSN account the failure was on them for buying the game anyway, since it was included on the store page, terms, and shows up on launch. Now, I agree they should get a refund if it locks them out the game. For the rest of the caterwauling, what will they do when Steam denies their refund after playing 200hours? Boycott Steam?
File support tickets directly with Arrowhead
https://arrowhead.zendesk.com/hc/en-us
File a complaint with your local government body, I believe in Australia it is illegal to break a game after the fact. To substantially change how it runs to hold it hostage.
But even in other jurisdictions, even 1, 000 disgruntled gamers filing small claims against arrowhead would consume an outsized amount of resources to respond to.
Make noise, be disgruntled, don't play the game, file a negative review, create busy work for the perpetrators. They're stealing time and money from you, it's fair to do it to them. But legally
You really are a dick
I’ve been called worse by better people. People who don’t read things that they are agreeing to and then complain they don’t like it after the fact should take the lesson and move on.
If your replying to this thread on mobile, I would like to remind you that you never read the EULA to your phone either (this would have taken several hours for android and slightly less for iOS) . You just saw the blurp "accept terms and conditions" and moved on with your life like everyone else did. There is no expectation to read usage contracts for small, non-bussiness purchases.
Also, your opposition to this discourse is futile... The ball is in Sony/Arrowheads court. We will see if they compromise with players in eastern europe, or double down to become the next Battlefront 2 (pride and accomplishment yall!). As for me, ill let the paint dry and move on if I feel they resolved this poorly. Lets see if EDF6 can stick the landing.
It wasn’t hidden in some legalese riddled document. It was listed on the store page on the right side where they put all the requirements for outside accounts. I get there are people who don’t want to have to install other launchers and make other accounts, but it was there. To complain that they are now enforcing it when it was obviously disclosed and claim it was a bait and switch are wrong.
Should they have sold it to countries Sony doesn’t serve? Obviously not.
In general, even as a company, in most of the civilized world, you don't get to just write stuff in some ToS and fuck around. Consumer protection agencies do care about this.
Sorry, on page 10,782 it says that if you don’t make a PSN account you have to become a slave. You signed it!
Hold on let me just slip a note that says "you agree to give up your rights" in to the computers my clients buy, that means I'm covered right?
Here is the lesson i take out of it - if buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.
"the failure was on them for buying the game anyway"
I'm with you buddy.
It's not in either terms linked on the steam store page. There's no mention of a requirement to use PSN's networks or to link your steam and PSN account in either EULA. It's ONLY the banner on the steam page. And nothing in game makes it clear that skipping the login is only a temporary thing.
Guuuuuuys... stop being mean to corporations! Didn't you watch the HR video that says we are family? /$
(If only they knew how shitty, exploitative and gaslighting my family is and how correct they are)
"We're all in this together"
the virgin EULA worshipper vs the chad consumer rights advocate
It's actually not even in either EULA published on the steam page. This is just a shill.
lol that's even worse
This is the reason I didn't buy the game, but people bought it and now they're angry they're enforcing it?
You're totally right, except for the people from the countries that don't get PSN. How is it legal to sell them the game in the first place if they can't meet the requirements to play? Scummy move.
Pointing to the ToS / EULA like we are in a fucking South Park episode, LMAO
The devs themselves have asked users to review bomb their own game on their discord. Your not standing up for them, your standing for Sony and Sony alone.
It's not in the EULAs pertaining to this game, and Sony changed their PC Games FAQ on May 3rd after the announcement that PSN would be required, meaning the FAQ people read when they bought the game is different from the one Sony is trying to enforce.
Before:
After:
Uhh axktuallay on page treefiddy on the TOS it says you get a downvote
I did not know we had controversial bots on Lemmy already!
The Ol' hivemind. I type this will dropping in to kill some bug hives.
"anyone who disagrees with me are part of the 'hive mind', the only way to not be part of a hive mind is if you agree with all the things I believe. You know, like some sort of hive mind."
Nah man, it's just a bunch of individuals that happen to agree that you're an idiot.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
I don't like it either, but I had to make an account on day 1. It's also a requirement for any game hosted on Sony's game servers.
Thanks mate 🫂
Well, I'm glad I didn't end up buying it last week like I wanted to. I decided to wait another paycheck instead.
Saved me wasting time or money.
Honestly people shit on review-bombing over specific incidents but this is the kind of thing that 100% deserves it.
"Oh no, finding out!" - corporation that fucked around probably
Review bombing is getting people to review something a certain way without them having have experienced the thing.
Basically a small group think their own opinion is so important, they try to convince as many people as possible to vote the same to make it seem more people share their opinion.
These reviews were from players who actually played the game and got affected by the changes. It isn't review bombing, their opinions are valid.
Not really, at least on Wikipedia the page for review bombing and the one listing significant ones make no distinction between actually having played the game/watched the movie or not.
I am curious how this is going to effect the number of active players. I know a lot of people who were trying to get me to play this saying it was here to stay and not a trend like a Lethal Company but I feel like this hurdle might be enough to get them to give up.
I definitely have a low level of tolerance for Russian nesting dolls of accounts and launchers.
I’d be surprised if it really has much of an impact on number of players tbh.
Most people don’t care, Lemmy/Reddit are a vocal minority.
They fumbled a (bigger) bag with this whole dungeon master Joel meme. This will be the last straw for many.
The player base is tearing itself apart with conservatives getting genuinely furious about the Creek incident and team-killing participants on sight while everyone else just wants to have fun playing the game.
With things like these you need to lean HARD away from the idiot fascists in all media out of game. They did not, and are reaping the consequences.
What in the world happened? I played a lot in the first few weeks and remember the Creek situation as just being some people who played that planet constantly. How tf did real world politics come into that situation specifically?
There was a major order that barely failed because people were playing on Creek instead of defending supply lines.
Yeah I know about that, like I indicated in my comment up there. How in the world do conservatives factor into that situation? That's what the commentor above said and I'm curious.
There was a major order that barely failed because people were playing on Creek instead of defending supply lines.
The supply lines were Creeking when people tried to play? Oh no. Why is that bad?
Yeah even if some people keep playing. Someone like myself who was entertaining of getting it would be turned off by seeing negative reviews (why go through the drama if I’m on the fence?).
Vocal minority is the assumption when this sort of collective outrage manifests. This time though, thanks to Steam player count we will actually get some hard numbers and see if that has an effect or not.
At current, there are 32k negative reviews. That's 32,000 people angry enough to go add or modify a review to be negative. The active player base is 100k. As far as "vocal minority" goes...
Yeah but how many are bark and no bite? Eg, they'll write the review, but keep playing anyway. That will take some time to find out.
I don't think it will affect the current playerbase too much. But I think the negative rating on steam will have an effect on sales.
I think said "most people" will care once the game forces them to register for a PSN account.
Well, a number of countries will be forced out, simply because PSN is not available there. Especially the philipinos seem so be quite upset.
Ive been waiting to get helldivers until I had a bit of spare cash.
Now I'm not gonna get it.
Just like I don't want 50 different streaming services, I dont want 15 different launchers open just to play a game.
There's no launcher as far as I know, just a linked account.
I bought the game on release week. I don't play often but when I do it's with friends. After hearing about this incident my plan was to wait a few days or a week to see how it resolves before deciding if I want to refund the game. However, enough of my friends have already refunded the game that, if they don't come back, I likely won't be playing much if at all anyway so I'll probably refund the game this week as well, especially if nothing changes.
I signed into an old PSN account when I first downloaded the game near launch. It is in game. No launcher. I signed in once and forgot about it until right now. Not really a big deal. If your worried about security make some bogus email up and make an account that way. But other than signing in one time it hasn't been a deal. 🤷♂️
Yeah, I used my old PS3 account. I didn't even think twice about it. I'm not sure why people are freaking out about it?
I play with a couple of friends in the Baltics. I have PSN. There is no PSN in the Baltics. So I guess I can't play with the friends I solely bought this game for.
Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's silly to complain about this.
Can they not create a Playstation account regardless of PSN service availability?
No because it is not available in their country, and making an account with a region different from your Steam account would have inherent EULA risks.
Hopefully Sony will see this as the biggest problem and do something about it. I don't think these people should have been able to spend money on this for it to be taken away, but that's a storefront issue as well. Steam and Sony will have to make some decisions about this, cause it wasn't thought out and implemented very well. They should've had some stronger safeguards.
They thought about it twice
I didn't get the game because it's packed full of all the terrible corporate stuff you see in terrible corporate games. Always Online, Rootkit anticheat, in-game store to purchase items when the game is already expensive. I doubt adding "must give your information to Sony" is going to be the tipping point for anyone who is fine with everything else.
Why does a fully cooperative game needs an anti-cheat software in the first place. I don't give a fuck about cheaters as long as its not competitive. Deep rock galactic for example works great without all of this bullshit.
To prevent people from spawning in unreleased content that is in the game, giving their group the maximum cap of in-game currency, and so on. Tamps down on the boosting market.
Exactly. That's why I play with cross play off on PS5, but I also think PC players shouldn't get locked out if they can't make an account in their country, so in my eyes that's the big fuck up. And it's Sony's fault, not Arrowhead. They should foot the community wrath and the remedy.
If i happen to encounter such stuff, i just leave. And for stuff like moneycheat that would affect my savegame, DRG for example provides a couple of backupsaves to roll back. So i can easily avoid being affected by cheaters and if others want to cheat, i just don't mind. But i would mind having to install a rootkit of questionable origin.
As I said in another comment I think it's more about people having to create another account.
I also don't know how or if PSN integration is going to impact matchmaking.
Playing not online is miserable
Waaaaaaa anti cheat
The in game store requires zero to actual money and is probably the most fair one to date.
Game is expensive (it's the standard price?)
Jesus cry more about something you haven't even done.
This is not a hurdle, its a nuisance at best. It's stupid though.
I know at least two people who live in countries w/o PSN support and can't play now. This is a hurdle.
Crossplay is mandatory, and linking an account for crossplay was always mandatory, they had issues at launch, paused the requirement, and are now reestablishing it.
Thats kinda on them, or for Steam for selling it in their location, but they probably bypassed that to get the game.
From launch until now, creating a PSN account was optional due to technical issues. And while this wasn't properly conveyed to the playerbase, the game was sold in tons of regions where you straight up can't make a PSN account. Something like 50+ out of 123 regions where the game was sold cannot make PSN accounts. And using a VPN or lying about your region to make an account is a bannable offense.
The privacy complaints I have more of an issue with since GameGuard, the DRM used, is just as much, if not more, of a privacy issue compared to Sony's horrible data security and invasive data harvesting. GameGuard has kernel level access to the entirety of your system while it's running, usually installs itself as an on boot up background process, and has been caught by anti-virus software editing files outside of the game directory.
The first is a genuinely refund worthy issue, if not a class-action lawsuit in the making, while the second one is people being ignorant to how much data they're actually giving away.
I’m curious how you are so bold to say something as patently false as your first sentence with such confidence knowing that anyone with the game can deactivate it in settings and it works without a PSN account anyway.
This is on PC and unlike some other ported PS games I don't think there is an option to play offline I imagine a lot of people are going to be creating PSN accounts I'd say that's a hurdle for some people.
Sony has a record of not respecting its workers, users or consumers.
2005 Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal
2011 PlayStation Network hack
2014 Sony Pictures hack
Now they want more userdata and kernel level anticheat. Surely there is no way for this to backfire
You missed some https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/
Is the last two their fault? They were attacked.
Yes. Their platform, their security. Their failure to secure their users data is solely their fault. Notice that other platforms don't have this issue. You'd think after the first one, they'd fucking pony up and take security seriously. Sony didn't learn anything.
If it was just one event, I'd advocate for leniency. But Sony doesn't get that from me.
The last two were because Sony was storing personal data. This store made them a target.
Like the personal data they require when you sign up to PSN to play Helldivers 2.
If they don't collect data, they wouldn't be such a juicy target. So, yes, it is partly their own fault because they took the known risk of storing personal information.
They played with fire and got burned ... more than once.
Source: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/privacy-policy/
Deserved. It's just not necessary. Think, why would a multi-billion dollar company want you to sign up for some other service, even if it's free? Because they want your data, and they want to sell it.
If only there was a digital bill of rights that applied to all tech companies that would make the selling of data illegal.
Nah, sounds difficult. let's just ban ticktok for my lobbyist buddy.
Theoretically their community management tools are based on PSN, which does make some sense. This is the official reason for it. Of course they're also hoovering up all your data to sell also. That's the reason that gives them more money, so the real reason.
I mean, it IS their own game. Let's not be disingenuous, they would be doing the same even if it was Steam data.
Another victory lap for patient gamers.
There is a lifetime of content to consume without taking video games or the internet into account. You are optional.
I just started BioShock Infinite. I am only a few years behind.
Bioshock Infinite is 11 years old
Pretty fun so far. Bonus, it runs at 4k 144fps highest graphics.
Patient gaming is great for single player games. Not so much for live service.
You say that, but it clearly worked here. And, for live service games in general, playing The Waiting Game™ lets you see how bullshit said live service ends up becoming after a awhile.
But if you were impatient and played it on release you could have played it without requiring a PSN account.
And now they would need to fight for a refund, only some people got it, others are on their 5th try.
I was waiting until some sort of offline mode since I've been burned by The Crew, I don't think it's happening considering how anal they are being about a PSN account.
I remember when it came out people were saying it's anti-cheat was basically malware. Denuvo, I think?
Anyway, it's disappointing because I hear it's a truly great game. But between this and that, I think I'm soured on the idea of playing.
n-protect actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NProtect_GameGuard
That's exactly why I purchased the game on ps5 instead of PC. And now I also don't have to worry about this issue.
Good for you? The post isn't about people like us playing on PlayStation, it's about people like my buddies I play with that thought they were good to go with their steam accounts and are now being railroaded a few months later by having to give their data to PSN, who is notorious for not managing said data well.
"It's in the ToCs", you might say, which is only highlighting a broader issue where you basically have to wade through pages of legal bullshit to just play a game you bought and not get fucked by the EULA.
Well said.
Well that might work, if I had a PS5 laying about.
Data is beautiful.
Wow what the fuck has happened?!
They're mandating you have a playstation account to play on PC. That was always in the terms, and on the steam page, but you didn't have to. Until very recently.
And if you don't live in one of the 65 countries where PSN operates, you can go fuck yourself, because your game just stopped working.
Wow fuck all that
Can’t you just use an US account though? I don’t mean to say that this isn’t a major issue as it is, but are you really blocked from linking it? I don’t live in the US but I have a us pen account since forever
That would be violating the terms of service, and could presumably get your Helldivers 2 account banned.
I’m aware of this, but I’ve never heard of this being enforced outside of people trying to use credit cards of other regions, and they only resulted on temporary suspensions.
My question is on the enforcement of the linking. Does it stop you from doing something like this?
https://hackertalks.com/comment/3637627
Violation of PSN terms of service.
Also worth point out that up until yesterday, Sony said a PSN account wasn't it required to play games games on PC. They changed it shortly after the backlash.
Capitalism
Look, I got hit with that stupid 2011 data breach PSN had and I still get scam emails with details from that due to the unique stuff I put in my various accounts. I'm not going to try to resurrect my now defunct account or create a new one so they can do more data mining and lose more of my PII, again.
Weren’t we all discussing enshittification the other day?
More like daily now unfortunately.
I'm not sure how requiring an account in addition to the Steam account is enshittification. Especially given that it was intended to be the case from the start, but they temporarily disabled it due to technical issues.
That sounds like deliberate deception. That's far shittier than being up front. They should have made a PS account optional. Cyberpunk does this, you don't need an account to launch the game.
There was always a banner on the Steam page that states "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)"
You don't need one for Horizon, God of War, or Spider-Man. And I'm sure you don't need it for Uncharted or Day's Gone.
Probably why it's not listed on those store pages.
Do any of those games have multiplayer, though?
Sure seems like Helldivers' multiplayer works just fine without a Sony account.
All of their support and controls are tied to the PSN account system, though.
It's completely unnecessary, PlayStation accounts aren't available in many countries which would make the game inaccessible to people who already bought it if it's mandatory, and Sony has averaged a data breach every two years for the past 15 years so people don't want to give them any personal data.
man I think people can take things too far and act like drama queens sometimes but yeah, forcing another unnecessary account onto people is enshitification
I sure am happy i didnt buy this earlier because of the enforced rootkit.
Kernel Level Anti Cheat... In a co-op game!?
Why they did this is beyond me! 😔
Oh no! Billy cheated his way to a new cape!! 🙄
It really is quite silly. There aren't even leaderboards or anything
Billy cheating made you unlock everything in 1 too, that's their reasoning at least.
And fair enough, but you need to install a rootkit on my machine so Billy can't get me a new cape?!
Lies!
It was a silly hat.
Because there's a real money store
So does Deep Rock Galactic (at least it has real money cosmetics via DLC, so maybe different to HD2), but they support modding
Yeah, but this is not about DRG
Point being, a relatively similar-themed co-op title that has paid DLC cosmetics, but wasnt fundamentally crippled by allowing modding and cheats (albeit in sandboxed environments)
It's doubly puzzling, because that component is just disabled on Linux and Steamdeck.
Honestly there were a few reasons I didn't get it, but I'll say the rootkit was a big one.
Yeah, that had me already decided that if I did get it, it would be on ps5 not pc. Though this move will probably make me do that in general for any ps exclusive game they make a pc port of.
Say what you will about the giant bugs and socialist toasters, but they never sold out their own for a percentage.
A Starship Troopers, BSG, and Aliens reference. Nice!
Well deserved imo
i don’t even care about making the account, it’s just a throwaway email and password, but the rug pull for players from other countries isn’t fair at all
This is far too common with games now, all over Steam as well. RDR2 is a great example, the Rockstar launcher and social club is total dogshit!
Fuck RDR2 has a launcher? Maybe I'll just pirate it
Yeah, even with Steam it will force you to install the Rockstar launcher and create a social club account, very annoying!
The Social Club has been a thing since GTA 4. So, for 15 years?
And it has been shit since then
no shit a bunch of my friend picked it up last month and were bugging me to buy it and join them. I get paid today and had planned on buying this weekend.
but I ain't got a playstation or PSN account so ima hold off. im not sure all of my friends do either, for that matter. back to modded CP2077 it is!
I’m like an hour in… mod reccos?
I haven't played with mods myself, but one I'd recommend would be a third-person camera mod, and maybe one that lets you customize vehicles.
It's so random, too. Just... why?! The other way around, sure, after all the PC player base is the big fish. But eh?
Because published by Sony.
People really should have stopped buying anything Sony back with the original rootkit scandal.
Context for those who didn’t live through it: Sony intentionally compromised the PCs of its customers to install a mechanism by which to prevent music piracy. There’s a lot more to it but you can read about here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
Either go indie or start pirating shit. Wanted to play Fallout the other day, but Microsoft/Bethesda just broke all the mods on PC for an update that doesn't really do anything on PC. Had to get an older pirate copy to play a game I legit purchased. At some point, I just gave up.
Which is all the info you need to avoid the game. Sony is a piece of shit
None of the previous Sony titles that were released on PC required a PSN account.
None of the previous Sony published titles had this level of popularity.
I think that's called "moving the goalpost". Also, I doubt Last of Us can't be considered popular.
I’m not trying to move the goal posts, just pointing out why Sony thought this was the game to start forcing this in.
It only got this popular partly because of the lack of a PSN account to play. Developer said they had somewhere between 5 and 20 times the number of players they expected.
Good luck explaining that to the suits.
I'm not going to. Ultimately, Sony is a megacorp and I'm just one dude. I'll simply voice my displeasure to people inquiring about them, and never trust a Sony product or promise in my life again. They probably won't give 2 shits, and I'm fine with that.
It was always required, there was an issue and they paused it.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/helldivers-2-will-require-you-to-have-a-psn-account-on-pc.1665633/
Netflix password sharing is technically against TOS and did not enforce it until recently.
You're technically breaking the law for going past the speed limit, but when did you last have to pay a fine for it (caveat: depends on location)?
Just like claiming that logging into PSN as mandatory would be negated by the fact that they told people to skip it in order to play when the game launched? Since you know... their servers were having problems and disabled the check for it?
But to that point. This "mandatory login" isn't in either Sony ToS on the steam store for this game.
Sure. What I'm saying is, it's like an Oxycontin salesman convincing you it's not addictive at all.
Oh okay. Weird as hell still, but that at least makes some sense. TY!
This is also a sad look into the reality of how people buy stuff. Every single one of those complaints didn’t read the requirements. How many buy the game and can’t even run the thing as well…
The weirdest part is how the game was sold in tons of regions where you can't even make a PSN account. That sounds refund worthy, at least, if not a class-action lawsuit in the making.
Yeah I feel like people also forget you can still return games out of the two hour window for legit reasons. Would be a bad look for Steam to deny those refunds at least.
"Term of service"? Shmerms of shmervice. Fuck all the way off, there's a hundred other games that we can be playing.
Hypetrain game + publisher shenanigans... Pretty sure I've heard this one before.
At least the hype train was built on its merit and not an ad campaign.
Was it though? It was full steam ahead even in the early days when the servers were overwhelmed in what seemed like a classic case of the dishoom effect.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fine game, but I think folk got carried away.
I guess what I am saying is it was organic. Cyberpunk and many other games that are hyped are hyped because of marketing campaigns done by the the studio. People get the game, it sucks, and people are mad.
This game just existed, the community decided it was awesome and got their friends to get in on it and so on. It blew up because it was fun to play and the the devs weren't shitbags. The devs didn't expect it to blow up the way it did, thats why the servers sploded.
This game blew up organically, due to players experience. I am still having a blast
DOWN WITH SNOY!
This doesn’t concern me. But holy hell, I’m getting hard Uplay flashbacks.
It's no accident that many of these games are releasing their anti-features only after millions have purchased them and missed their return window.
EA did the same recently with Kernel anti-cheat in games they haven't serviced in years, games that actively cannibalise their latest titles!
Less players means less server running costs. Helldivers 2 might turn back or end up with this disastrous policy (for consumers) but until we have regulations on this, many companies will see the benefit of rugpulling software.
Supposedly steam is allowing returns no matter the playtime.
that's good, surprising though because technically it's not their policy
I guess they don't like being sued. And I think they will just take the money for the refunds from Sony's payout.
Can someone explain what is the big deal of creating a Playstation account? I know they've added the requirement retroactively, and I know everyone wants steam to be it's own thing, but this is not really a unique situation.. I have a lot of games across many publishers that have their own useless accounts tied to it. What makes this different?
its past the refund window, PSN only allows 69 countries to make an account, so 66% of the countries in the world are simply not able to make an account at all. Depending on how things shake out, those players will be locked out of hell divers.
If this hadn't been retroactive, then our gaming brothers from i.e. the Philippines would have bought the game, tried to run it, hit the wall, and refunded it... sucks but they wouldn't have lost time or money.... but now... they lose both.
Ah see, that's the context I needed. Thank you. Outside a refund window or not - if I were in a country that got locked out, steam had better be real gracious with their refunds. That scenario is unacceptable. Strange that PSN restricts themselves geographically.. they absolutely should have thought of that before allowing the game to be sold in those countries.
Yeah, I'm sure some executive is trying to pump up "active monthly" PSN users for some political, KPI, or share evaluation purposes. We kind of expect them to play these games, its the retroactive bit that's surprising here.
This isn’t something they tried to sneak past people, they were upfront about the issues and said there would be a grace period before they implemented the pairing originally planned at launch.
Edit for source jan it was part of steams requirements
So they sold it to people they knew couldn't comply with the TOS, then started enforcing the TOS four months later.
They know where their customers live. They know customers ignore system requirements if the game works.
Steams the one selling it, not Sony. And the restrictions were active for about a week.
You seem to missing quite a few extremely important details.
It’s up to the publisher to choose which countries Steam should let players buys the game
The big deal is that you are now forced to create an account with yet another service and give them analytics about your behavior, for literally no benefit to you.
Even though this is widely accepted, this is just not okay in any case. Not when Ubisoft did it, not now.
How can they enforce a ban if you don’t link your account?
They ban your steam id and you just family share it to another free account and do the same thing.
Get your tinfoil hat off.
Lol
I bet you $20 he made that comment either from his android phone or from chrome on a Windows PC. OH NO, I suddenly care about my gaming history being collected by Sony. You dont even have to install 3rd party software, it is an in-game link. No standalone launcher like most games nowadays.
This is no different than your other games with useless.one off accounts. That's the problem. They all are a problem. I bought red dead 2 and refunded it as soon as I was required to create a rockstar account. It serves no purpose to me, I don't need it or want it. If we don't push back these useless account things will keep being added.
And retroactive add is a massive problem. They took people's money then screwed them after. It sets the precedent that this is acceptable if people just take it.
What's next? Removing areas and features of games after release for something that you paid for?
It's scummy.
Yeah, Destiny 2...
PSN accounts, in particular, are pretty bad. In some places, they require a photo ID in order to make an account, and in many regions of the world, you can't make one at all. Something like 50 of the regions where the game was sold can't make PSN accounts, and using a VPN to make an account or lying about your region is a bannable offense.
It's a valid concern, both from paying for something that you can't even use and a privacy perspective.
I see other comments have covered some of the issues, I don't see this one.
April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users
May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen
June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts
November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures
August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts
September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack
October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach
Basically Sony's been caught before not securing anything. So people don't want to deal with them. So for this to be retroactively pushed on users months later is a solid concern. To be forced to give Sony more data than is actually required to run the game (as we've proven it isn't needed for months now). Is literally just handing it to the next hackers that access Sony's shit.
Yeah this is all fair. I don't give anyone or anything personally identifiable information, and wouldn't suggest it. Just fill it out with fakes and move on.
It seems a lot of people did not realize that this was an initial requirement when the game first launched, but it was suspended while they figured out server and stability issues.
That was never mentioned in a meaningful way on my purchasing platform, or in the game. At no point was I told that I was only temporarirly allowed to play without a PSN account, and that the entire game would be locked down months later unless I created and linked one. Were that the case, I would have refunded on day 1.
Right above the buy button on Steam, in yellow highlighted text, it has always said
And yet we played for months without it... Looks like it was not required. Otherwise it would have been refunded immediately.
It was deactivated while they were trying to sort out the server instability issues in the beginning. They announced it would eventually return, and it's the main reason why the friends list has been messed up.
I don't think I've ever seen a game on Steam with "Overwhelmingly Negative" reviews before. Usually "Mixed" is already a good indicator to leave your hands off a game.
That's because there's a review count requirement for both the extremely good and the extremely negative level. So you can't buy your own game, review it, and have it be overwhelmingly positive because the only review is positive. Thing is, bad games tend to not get bought by many people, so overwhelmingly negative is rare. So yes, mixed reviews are already damming.
Hopefully soon no one will care about this game and it'll stop clogging up my RSS and Lemmy feeds. 😆
Deserved
Is this a change that’s coming? We played last night and my wife hasn’t linked a ps account and she has been playing fine.
May 6th for new players and may 30 for existing iirc
So I bought the game in PS store. Installed it and went to play just to remember I need to pay for a subscription. Uninstalled and never looked back. I dropped my subscription in December and PS won't give me a reason too return. Maybe I can get GTA 5 for the 20th time for "free."
I'm bummed I missed my window to return it through steam. I downloaded it, gave it a couple tries and just couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be doing or when the fun was supposed to start. I couldn't figure out how to play with other people or what guns I was supposed to use against whatever enemy. None of it made sense and seemed like it was all just hype with no substance. It's still in my library, but I don't think it'll ever get a reinstall. I wish I could just gift it to someone else
Have you tried watching any videos that explain how to play or talking to anyone in your squad when you play online? It's a game meant to be played as co-op, not really solo.
Assuming you aren't trolling... If you want to try again, how to play with others is really simple. In the world map, you can press "R" to quick play and it will put you in a mission with a couple people in it. You can also throw a SOS during the mission (idk if it works if you set matchmaking to friends only in settings, try making it public).
I watched a few gameplay videos, but nothing educational. I was just looking for a demo to see what it played like and figured the game would guide me the rest of the way. I'm being completely honest, I never figured out how to play with anyone else. I went to the main room, picked my mission, shot down by myself and died repeatedly. I never thought to try the quick play option. I promise I'm not trolling or trying to yuck anyone else's yum, I just don't think I'm made for the game or the game is made for me.
I definitely appreciate the info you gave me. If I ever do decide to give it another shot, I'll keep that information in mind, but I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon. I've got plenty of other games in my library to keep me busy without this weird learning curve
Some countries like Ukraine are told that they need a console to make an account, you can't make this shit up lmao
Did anyone actually have to log in? I played yesterday without having to add a sony account, neither did my friends.
If you actually read the announcement, it very clearly says that new players need a PSN account from may 6th, and existing players from may 30th.
From Monday you will be bombarded with the PSN requirement for a month and then you won't be able to play without a PSN account.
D-day is next month.
May the refunds be ever in your favor.
"Uhhh acktuallay on page 420 of the Terms Of Service it says you have to suck my dick and you get no right to a refund!"
When I bought the game it wouldn't let me play without creating an account, and that was over a month ago. I guess the requirement is only just now rolling out for the majority of players?
It said it required an account but you could just click next
Well... Earth Defense Force 6 is coming.
Mainly micro transactions. Though its not as bad as other games i don't agree with them being in games that cost money. If they are going to be added i think the game should be free. Its mainly a critique of online gaming in its current state.
The gameplay was not my kind of game but that's more of a personal preference than it being a bad game. I watched a ton of gameplay and had friends stream it to me and it looked very dull. He came across a lot of bugs while playing too such as clipping through the map forcing him to restart the entire mission.
Worth pointing out that you can find in game premium currency
I know but id prefer it not being there to begin with as its a slippery slope. Its much more fun to earn loot than grind for coins or pay for them to get the skin.
The micro-transactions barely exist and was easy be bought with premium currency found in the game. There are paid battle passes but none of the items within give you much of an edge over anyone else, and those battle passes also award premium currency which can be used to buy the next battle pass. They’re not timed, either. You can buy one battle pass and sit in it for a year before completing it.
As far as MTX go, they’re the most inoffensive I’ve ever seen in a game.
I understand. I just prefer them to not be there at all. Ill only buy extra in a game if its in the form of a dlc that adds great content for example the following dlc for dying light or liberty city stories for GTA 4. Buying weapons and cosmetic feels cringe to me
I mean you don’t have to spend any money on them. You can buy them with currency you earn in game.
These are the least offensive micro transactions I've seen in a game lol. And people calling a $40 game expensive is funny.
It was shit anyway. Never got it in the first place. If anything its just reassured me that online games cannot be trusted and will eventually bait and switch
Edit: especially if the rights are owned by a publisher
Out of curiosity, what didn’t you like about it?
Lol, it's still got hundreds of thousands playing.
Theres some angry outrage for sure, but it don't think it's gonna wind up that bad in the end.
It's annoying, but it's like an Origin account for an EA game or something. At least with crossplay, having one admin team to manage bans on both platforms makes sense to streamline things.
How do you think bans are working right now? You realize that you don't HAVE to have an account. All they do is assign a mirrored account to your steam ID on PSN. Or even just assign you a random one in general.
Nothing about this process streamlines anything any further, they're already doing it.
I know. I'm going to be playing tonight. I didn't bat an eye at this announcement... Mainly because it's been known since day one. People are acting like this is new information. And I don't care if less people play. Still will have plenty of players. I play with cross play turned off on PS5 to avoid cheaters anyway... so this literally isn't going to change anything for me.
They already sold many times more than they ever expected.
For anyone who actually cares this was a requirement from the start they paused it due to some issues.
People need to read stuff before buying it.
Yeah but also it's a bullshit requirement. Should be removed imo.
It’s a crossplay mandatory game, if you’re a dick, PSN wants a way to block you. No different than getting VAC banned.
This isn’t steam servers, it’s Sony servers. What do you want?
It doesn't need it for crossplay.
Then VAC ban the steam account since you sold on steam. The game worked fine for months after launch without requiring a PlayStation account and would continue to work fine otherwise.
The most major issue is that BECAUSE they didn't enforce a tiny part of their terms of use that is a dealbreaker for most users, those users will now be unable to refund the game due to steam's "2 hours playtime = no refund" rule
It was required from the start, why are buying something without knowing if it will even run first? Its hilarious the amount of people defending something that’s people’s own stupidity.
Quite the sad reflection of reality unfortunately.
Because if it doesn't run, you won't get 2 hours of playtime and steam will refund it. Stop defending corporate greed on a social media platform DESIGNED to get away from corporate greed.
Abusing a system because you can’t be arsed to read something is an interesting take.
It’s interesting that providing information is always defending some corporation when it doesn’t align with your narrative…..
So let me make a game that will work for exactly 3 hours and break. It's the same concept here. They made the game. It worked for months. Now magically it won't.
Hi,
I don't have a PSN account. I was able to log in and play without using a PSN account. At no point was I told that a PSN account would be required to play. My very reasonable assumption. Is that the PSN account requirement was listed for crossplay, or managing socials with PS players. If the game had not worked from day one, or if I had been notified in the game that this was merely a temporary solution, and that I would be unable to play at all in the coming months, then I would have refunded without even trying.
So no, despite what the little label said, PSN account was not required to play the game. It worked fine without the PSN account.
In an ideal world, the requirement would be removed. Since the availability of the game has arbitrarily changed a lot in the last 2 days, Sony should at least offer full refunds and an apology to the community.
Hi
There was literally a splash screen you accepted when you loaded up the game the first time.
You have no excuse, bye.
I don't need to make an excuse. You're making excuses, even more pathetic, you're making excuses for a megacorp trying to datamine their customers by changing the conditions for use of the game that they already bought.
Toodles.
Nah brother. Because it's in the TOS doesn't make it OK, and in some cases, even legally enforceable.
Why are you sticking up for some arbitrary shitty corporate decision and feel the need to shift the blame to people who bought, and now supposedly OWN, the game?
I can respect it if you're doing it for money, we all gotta eat. But if it's for free, you're just an ass
You’re playing on Sonys servers, they need a way to enforce a ban when you are a dick. On steam if they ban your account, you make a new one, and family share the game bypassing the ban.
This is Sonys servers, it’s their rules, no different than needing a Steam account to play Steam games. This isn’t something out of the ordinary….
I’m not sticking up for or defending anything, people are just too fucking stupid to read requirements before buying things, and now you being just as stupid defending the stupid people doing this lmfao.
It’s Sonys servers, of course it requires an account….
So the only way to ban dicks is for them to have a PSN account? That ain't it my brother.
Sony servers, sure, just release a server binary, let others host it and offload all infrastructure costs! Massive savings!
Don't suck corporate ass man, cmon.
Wow… how do they ban all your other accounts unless steam vac bans you for a Sony ban? Don’t you think that would be an entire other issue…? Get your steam if banned, make a new account and family share it, bypassing Sonys ban with now way of the knowing…. Yeah that’s a fucking problem.
Uhhh… you understand the concept of this game… yeah…?
You couldn’t be making a bigger idiot of yourself right now.
You’d have to pay for the game again regardless of where you got banned, and can Sony not opt out of allowing family sharing?
What? Sony can only ban a steam id, how’s Sony supposed to know you’re family sharing to another account? And you don’t need to buy a new game to family share, that’s the entire issue.
You can bypass banning without linked accounts due to steams policies, maybe if steam would issue a vac ban for a sony ban, but people would be even more up in arms about that.
Back when the new family sharing rules came out, I remember reading something about how developers could opt out of family sharing. That’s what I was referencing.
Developers can opt out of family sharing. A family sharing account that gets banned, the owning account also gets banned.
You’re super correct
But “some issues” = refund window for a big chunk of the world that can’t make a PS account
I’d be interested to know if that’s Sony or steams mistake selling them in those markets. Or isn’t that developer controlled? So maybe the devs fucked up by not restricting the sales, they said they knew about Sonys requirements.
Absolutely fair! I was waiting on this game hoping they did better anticheat.
It sounds like a Sony thing, instead of the devs.
still enjoying it lol
You know your not being snarky big dev defender saying this right? You are aware the actual devs, the creators of the game have asked people to review bomb it. This is the major order right now. It's to give the devs leverage to get Sony to back the fuck off.
Do you have a source on the devs endorsing review bombing for leverage? I only see posts about the CEO apologizing for the policy.
Spitz is also the pos who told people to just refund and leave. Now they wre doing damage control acting like they are on the players side. The devs are not the good guys here just smart enough to act like they are
Did you read the comment? He told them to refund it if they are unhappy because the review scores and revenue are all sony sees or cares about
I really couldn't care. It's as easy as using making an account. People really have nothing else better to do with their lives. In fact, most people do, that's why steam charts haven't reflected any change.
You realize about 1/3 of all players physically cannot make a PSN account, right? This isn't just 'gamers having nothing better to do with their lives', it's an actual legal and economic issue.
VPNs are free and easy to make, and where did you get 1/3 of all players?