Why does the culture surrounding Lemmy seem to be inherently negative and hateful?
I have accounts on various Reddit alternatives and have also had accounts on now-defunct sites. However, none have exhibited the same level of negativity as Lemmy.
View original on lemm.ee
Huh. Maybe it's the communities/posts I've visited but I wouldn't agree with your assessment of an inherent negativity/hatefulness. Do you have examples we can discuss?
I agree, Lemmy doesn't feel especially negative to me. That said, I use the Subscribed view instead of All, so I guess it's just about curation.
I also immediately block users who are obviously just trying to wind people up.
This post as an example?
There is for sure great comments, but then there is the rest of lemmy.
But... It's your post taking about negativity, so you're saying your post about negativity on Lemmy is evidence of negativity on Lemmy? Or the fact the current vote count is negative?
Read the comments and tell me, is it postive or negative or netural And compare it with any reddit alternative general vibe.
You will come to the same conclusion.
Also, here is a second example: https://lemm.ee/post/30511698
If you’re referring to the comments as your example, you should link to the specific comments which you consider hateful or negative.
I don’t find this post’s comment section to be hateful and negative. What comments are you referring to?
I agree with others, it's where you hang out. Like reddit or any large group of people online, there's always a subset of trolls. Lemmy was quiet and nice, as it grew so did the troll count, it's just natural with online communities. I've found some tech communities here are toxic as hell, others are very welcoming
Fuck you I am full of love
Oh fuck off, Im way more loving than you dipshit.
Both of you are idiots, I've been a caring and empathetic person my entire life!
People on Lemmy have bailed from Reddit because they have principles. Stuff like Linux. The value of science/education. Lefty-ism (or whatever it's called in their region). FOSS. They are willing to cut themselves out from a larger community to foster one that is compatible with their principles.
From your comment history you seem to be posting stuff outside of Lemmy's core beliefs. That's great! But the people here really believe in those principles, so they react negatively to the comments.
I dunno what else to say. If we want Lemmy to be viable, we need to allow people with other views build communities here. We feel pretty close to a monoculture at the moment.
I hadn't really noticed that Lemmy is any more or less negative than Reddit used to be. I have noticed that most people on here are a lot more polite aside from the occasional trolls. Maybe the negativity is more of a trend in the specific communities you're visiting?
I've seen very little negativity on Lemmy in almost a year of using it.
Ignoring all the pro genocide posts I guess
I've seen the same thing and I think it's a conversation we need to have.
I think it's because Lemmy is populated by people who did not like Reddits changes. We are malcontents by definition, and holy cow does it show. And of course all the people that have had their Reddit accounts banned too.
I think everyone needs to take their tone down quite a few notches.
I also feel it's something that should be examined before too much more time goes by, as it was not like it is now right after The Day the API Died.
Everyone was very polite in a way I haven't seen since before everyone had useful Internet on their phone.
But it didn't take long to change. There was a small but vocal group that hated in Beehaw constantly for wanting to keep their space polite. There was another bunch that seemed offended that nobody was swearing and started to encourage it.
Just more and more things like that have crept in over the months. I get why mods have wanted to avoid the criticism of harsh Reddit modding, but Lemmy seems to have accepted that only being 3/4 as rude as we put up with in Reddit is still good enough.
As someone dedicated to carving out a hospitable and relaxing community for everyone here, it concerns me that there does not seem to be much curation of how Lemmy is growing.
We are technically decentralized, but certain groups are essentially operating out of specific servers. Much like the growth of real world communities, people come to where the action is and those servers will be the de facto Lemmy community which will spread our reputation.
I think World, ML, and other significant servers should start to actively take a stance on who we want to be. We can still welcome strong and dissenting opinions , but there isn't a need to treat each other poorly. Anywhere you'd go in person has varying rules of decorum, and I wouldn't mind seeing that take effect here.
It needn't be rigid or all at once, but we can work toward something we feel comfortable with as a collective user base and decide when to stop or roll back.
I just don't want to see the group of us as a whole turn into what we just left is all. I feel that would be a shame to squander what we've spent the last year building up.
Hello,
Thank you very much for your comment, I wholeheartedly agree.
At first we wanted people to join, so we were more lenient. I guess it is now time to protect the space, and not be afraid to take sanctions for people who are straight up rude.
Exactly. I'm not out to crap on anyone's good time, but like being a decent person in real life, it ends when it starts to cause other people a bad time.
I don't feel we're gaining anything of value by allowing ourselves to behave poorly. I'd like to see things in News and Politics for example focus more in direct action and campaigns we can take part in than posting ragebait type articles that get everyone mad. There's no shortage of other places we can go for that.
Say, instead of saying the president is allowing oil drilling in a supposed protected place, let us know who is supporting or opposing it, what groups are doing what to fight it, etc. All we get now is "it's Republicans doing it again" or "this is how Democrats are getting nothing done again," the same comments we've heard a billion times that don't do anything but work us up, no matter who we support.
We don't need to pretend we're happy all the time or spend all day watching our every word, but we could put our energy to better use.
I don't think it helps that most of the content and communities on here are primarily doom scroll content. I don't even look at the all feed because it's just depressing and upsetting to go through.
100% agree. Disabling downvotes might be a good idea, since it removes one psychological hammer we can use against each other.
Definitely
Exhibt A of unnecessary downvoting.
I think it's this in large part. Lemmy's users are by and large migrants from Reddit for various reason.
But also, this place exists as an ideological alternative to Reddit more than a technical one. The API-pocalypse (API-calypse?) and enshitification and shameless money grabs to inflate stock prices were the final straws for a lot of people but it's no secret that there are a series of positions and interests that are (assumed to be) shared by all the current Lemmy users.
As Lemmy grows its instances will continually have to determine who, what, and what beliefs and practices are welcome there
But also some people are just jackasses and need to argue, and they come into contact with people who want the same thing.
If what you are describing is the case, then why none of the alternatives have the same level of negativity?
But are they more positive or just more ideologically aligned with you? I looked through your post history and most of the conflicts you had seem to be ideological in nature. Much as I wish it wasn’t so, strongly negative reactions to ideological differences are a prominent feature of culture right now, particularly in online spaces.
So, to give a relevant example, posting about how socialism is bad on Lemmy.ml (which is a Marxist-Leninist instance in case you did not know) is going to generate a strong negative reaction. But I don’t know that this is because of something inherent to Lemmy. This would likely happen any time you criticize socialism in a space where most people agree with that ideology. If you made the same post in a fascist online community, you might get a more positive response, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that community is more positive, just that you align with them on that issue more so.
They might not have the volume of users that grants some level of peer protection. Lemmy is big enough for the biggest asshats to find likeminded individuals, while other sites are struggling to reach anything remotely close to critical mass, so individuals stand out more and might hold back.
Or they all belong to a certain subgroup or subculture already, which makes it more harmonious.
Discuit.
Maybe the existing user base? (before the reddit exodus.) It was hardcore left, and now that their echo chamber is being opened and challenged they don't like the new discussions. And being so used to the old ways they think they can continue bashing progressive as not progressive enough.
100%
I've added that the people that left Reddit to come here are malcontents. It shows.
Can you link to examples?
I haven't found that at all. I have blocked a handful of communities, but most of them weren't particularly negative, just stuff I didn't want to see.
There is [email protected] for positive or at least neutral conversation.
If you see too much negativity here, you are probably hanging out in toxic communities.
I saw your last post about Kaspersky on the Piracy community, sorry to see the comments you got.
Each community has its own vibe and moderation policy. A few of them are quite toxic, a few are very nice, the rest is in between.
My previous experience is reddit, and I've found Lemmy to be far more positive, with exceptions.
Interactions with mods here are far less demanding and nitpicky. It's more like interaction and less like being told off.
Interactions with other users vary, but I'd say it is a net positive experience here. On reddit, other users were a net negative.
The exception is the reaction when you disagree with the consensus built up between a post and its comments. Whether it's reddit or Lemmy, you're going to have a bad time.
I think it's a facet of the largest Lemmy servers feeling (being?) more ideologically homogenous, itself in part because of how niche Lemmy still is compared to Reddit.
Many of the users came here after the API died and so made joining here an explicitly ideological choice.
People aren't here because their friends are here. Not really. Not yet.
They're here cause they want to be, because this is important to them or their beliefs or their identity.
That's totally valid and good and fine. But u should know and expect that when posting here, especially on the biggest or most general or politically volatile communities.
I've got negative interest in trying any Unix/Linux based OS on my home PC and I'm ambivalent about FOSS, but i recognize that being here will mean that putting up with a certain amount of "Windows bad" that i just have to laugh and shake off or stop coming here
It's always a laugh to see users like this. Nothing like joining an established group and then whinging about how "toxic" it is when they get rebuffed for repeatedly breaking the given rules.
What rule did I break ?
Rule 3. Thou shalt not post thy IQ on the internet.
Rule 26, If thou criticize communism thou needeth to do more then just question it.
Exhibit A. Calling people assholes is exactly what OP is talking about. You ramped up the negativity.
I mean, ops comment history is there for the reading.
What is wrong about my comment history?
You have a tendency to get into protracted arguments that revolve almost entirely around semantics.
Classic reddit
I didn't call them an asshole. I was evoking the asshole rule with regards to the negativity he's seeing everywhere.
No, you called him an asshole. You're trying a song and dance to do it, but you did. That's the exact behavior that's the problem.
Agree
Lemmy is a nice place if you share the same values, but once your opinion differs even somewhat, you won't have that good of a time.
Yep. No different to Reddit on that. I've posted reasonable comments that were maybe a personal anecdote under someone else's anecdote and I got downvoted and before the pitchforks come out because I mentioned downvoted, I don't care about the points, it's that the comments that seem harmless are being downvoted instead of someone actually saying what's wrong with it. Sometimes I've been an ass and I'll hold my hand up to that and those comments deserve negativity but something that's personal experience that's being shared that gets a negative reaction is shitty. In a recent example I commented under someone on ADHD that I don't like cold leftovers, I've ADHD and I have autistic traits, I would get tested but the waiting list on the NHS would be near a decade and private which I can't afford is no better. I was tested again 7-9 but it was inconclusive at that time my ADHD symptoms were a lot more prominent. I mentioned maybe it's a sensory thing for me as I don't like the texture of cold leftovers and that comment was downvoted. ADHD people can have sensory issues too. Sucks because on the ADHD subreddit I wouldn't have been downvoted and would've had comments in reply that detailed others experiences.
Sorry to hear this.
Ehh. You get used to it when you have ADHD. The irony being that many people with ADHD experience RSD. I liked the Reddit sub as it was always supportive, that was the first time I commented in that ADHD community and I won't again.
Have you considered switching to an instance that disable downotes? https://lemmy.blahaj.zone is nice for that
I might move to blahaj. I'm a queer person and the fact it's a queer focused instance that seems to have strict rules about respect seriously appeals plus Lemmy worlds stance and defederating from a few communities over piracy has annoyed me a bit.
:(
Idk, because redditors came here?
I'm just as guilty of this as the next person sometimes, it sometimes seems like a struggle not to be your worst self online. I'm trying to be better, I think that's what we can do to combat it.
My understanding is that the original devs of Lemmy are tankies, so the culture they fostered was very anti-western values.
But the original devs don’t control the lemmyverse
I find Lemmy to be about on par with the popular (Front Page) Reddit subs. I tended to stay in smaller, more niche subs than Front Page subs and found them to be more polite and well-written, generally.
Lemmy isn't so bad, but we do clearly get some people who are here because they were banned from Reddit (and sometimes for immediately apparent reasons).
I think there's far more negativity in the comments of YouTube, Instagram, and especially Facebook.
But more than anything, I've seen more posts about negativity on Lemmy. So to me, it almost seems like the people coming to (or on?) Lemmy are more sensitive to negativity, maybe?
Personally id argue that i have experienced the most toxic behaviour by the mods of some communities. Overall i wouldn't say that Lemmy is more or less toxic than the rest of the internet or even that the mods are stricter. I've just gotten a few comment removals by communities that i never visit but that ended on my feed and i commented on something.
Looking at your post and comment history, it looks like you are, yourself, part of the problem. I see a number of pessimistic (or shit-stirring) posts, posts that appear to be in favor of "ancap", and commenting in piracy comms. Sorry to say it but, you may want to examine your own behavior before pointing at others.
A lot of comments seem to disagree with you, so define Negativity? ( what do you consider to be negative behavior )
I find that the communities I follow to be mostly positive. Unless the conversation is about Israel because there always seems to be someone with a terrible take on that gets a ton of down votes .
I am saying that as a former reddit user and current Discuit user and multi lemmy instance account user:
Rude people comments and downvotes for any type of post and bad mods who are going through power trips.
Admins are not involved in the site like the other reddit alternatives.
Edit 1 : Admins are not involved.
I've seen a pattern where a lot of comments on links are about what the user thinks of the topic, and not about the actual article or video specifically, and more often people only care to comment if they are opinionated, and often times that's a negative opinion
Admins being more involved, IMHO, is a positive, not a negative.
I meant that they are not involved, I edited my comment.
I agree with you from my discuit experience.
Im pretty sure many of my subscriptions are on lemmy and I have not noticed it. I mean there is negativity but its certainly no worse than reddit and not even sure if I can say its way less but I find things more authentic overall.
Hatred drives engagement on any and all social media. Even ones where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
It doesn’t seem that way to me. What specifically are you seeing that gives you that impression?
I worry that merely accepting this as presupposed fact will make it more likely to become fact.
Maybe you just have some real shit hot takes.
Looking at their post history, they were banned from unpopular opinion after multiple posts just slagging off the platform. So yeah, some real shit hot takes.
Your perception of lemmy has been tainted by the kind of communities you interact with. You and I have wildly different experiences on this app.
Part of the reason you feel this way may be caused by you being subscribed to unpopularopinion, an inherently contrarian community. If you'd like to be happy, stop following that community.
I also encourage you to avoid engaging in political conversations with non-rational people: It is extremely unlikely that they will change their minds, and even if you do reach an understanding, that conversation is really likely to leave you with a sour feeling.
In comparison, the communities I'm in are mostly about memes, IT, privacy and LGBT stuff. No news about the war, and no political arguments with random, possibly deranged, users.
The instance I'm in doesn't even have downvotes! Depending on how you use lemmy, you can have either really good or really bad experiences. I recommend u to try to avoid conflict, and maybe even switch to a downvote-less instance.
I see it too
I've noticed some instances being very nice overall (hence I'm here) and some being nothing but negative (feddit stood out to me). And occasionally I see a post copy-pasted across a whole bunch of instances with different newly-made accounts sharing misleading news articles.
fortunately, a well oiled block button, and a regex instance filter makes short work of that. I really like lemmy, but just like reddit it's messy
other sites have admins
I think it just correlates with leftism in the US and Lemmy was leftist before the Reddit exodus increased the population. I say this as a US center-left liberal (and I get annoyed with it myself).
The leftist movement is very anti-establishment, very pessimistic about their future under capitalism, very pessimistic about the US political establishment, very pessimistic about climate change, very pessimistic about the Israel-Hamas situation, very pessimistic about police, very pessimistic about health care, very pessimistic about both Biden and Temp, very pessimistic about ... pretty much every major issue (except maybe weed).
Edit: I don't mean to "rage against the leftist" either, I think y'all have some good points from time to time and there are definitely things I agree with you on (e.g. the health care system needs major changes). Some of y'all give a real "you must be fun at parties" kind of vibe though and some are about as bad as the Trump supporters in terms of using personal attacks.
Russian, trumpist, moron, bot, Chinese, tankie, fascist, Republican, child, shill.
This is a selection of things I've been called for saying that Biden should stop supporting genocide.
Tell me how bad the left is about personal attacks.
All of these roll off my back except for the one slur that leftists use against leftists: "liberal"
You being personally attacked for being an (evidently) leftist does not invalidate the numerous personal attacks that leftist have made against me on this platform and others.
https://youtube.com/shorts/vHfbUIQeW_A?si=_PnjDToAzRXzERP-
I gave examples. You posted a comedian.
If that's what you thought I did, have a nice day.
Gestures vaguely
No shit we are lol
It's not pessimism, it's criticism. The fact that you think hope/pessimism has anything to do with these issues would be extremely telling if you hadn't already described yourself as a liberal.
There is a point where persistent criticism of any and every action (even actions that align with stated goals like tackling the climate crisis) rises past the point of criticism to outright pessimism, negativity, or even the more recently coined "doomerism" term.
Edit: Here's are some examples:
They're really not hard to find.
So you just want to turn your brain off and ignore valid criticisms to avoid "negativity", got it.
Edit: all your examples are about Biden 💀😂 newsflash, criticizing politicians is how we keep them accountable
No I want to stop moaning that everything "isn't enough" or "it will just be undone" and just take a win.
People know there's more to do, that doesn't need put on every post anytime something actually gets done.
I would say that lemmy is just more realist then naive optimist, since more intellectual people probably use lemmy or even try to fund Reddit alternatives.