I had a girlfriend that was always studying 24/7 for her tests and never had time for me. One day she asked me to help her study and her entire exam was stuff like this, I kid you not. I realized she was too dumb for me and dumped her.
This is just like the dumb HR tests that are like "You see a coworker engage in inappropriate behavior. Should you A. Notify your supervisor, B. Punch them in the face, C. Piss on the floor.
At least the correct answer is obvious instead of a test with vaguely-worded trick questions and ambiguous answers. Those are the tests that make me livid.
I work in a place that's closed off to the public by Federal Law, where you need to badge in, just a janitor, nothing fancy, they make us watch training videos and stuff. They warn us to pay maximum attention, because we'll be barred from the site if we fail, losing our jobs in the process.
And the questions are things like
"Which of the following is safe to drink? A) Filtered Water, B) Literal Poison, C) Lava, D, A School Bus"
It's so blatantly rigged in the favor of the test taker that I suspect they literally wouldn't even have the test if it wasn't a legal requirement.
We also keep getting tested for things that don't even make sense, like recently we were meant to watch a thing on where and when it's safe to take a smoke break.... Despite the fact that tobacco and marijuana are banned form the site and will be confiscated by security if we bring any... So what exactly are they smoking
Oh right, we're meant to be smoking chocolate, forgot the Troy McClure film.
Seriously though, most of my training is entirely irrelevant as they involve scenarios I'd never be in due to the nature of my job, scenarios I'm literally not allowed to be in, or scenarios that don't even exist in the first place..
And the questions are always things like
"If your supervisor asks you to do something illegal should you..." and the answers are non-sequitur alongside the real answer, like - A) Report it to the company hotline for illegal activity 555-555-5555 B) Oppress Women & Minorities, C) Run naked into a blizzard, D) Jump off a cliff and into spikes, or E) Pray to Magi-Chan Sonichu in order to hasten the coming of the Dimensional Merge"
The most subtle examples of this are when they ask a question, and one of the answers is suspiciously and overly detailed, while the others are so overly generic that it's like they wrote the right answer for one, and then just whatever they can think of off the top of their heads.
fun fact but I find the opposite to be true in trivia games, if an answer is too detailed it's more likely to be false. That's how I won a trivia game about the life of some guy when I barely recognised his name
We have such a test too, but not as extremely dumb. But it's still in the realm of: how do you wear your high-vis-vest? A: well visible from all sides B: hidden under your jacket to not get it dirty.
See, you and I may think things like this are obvious but there are some idiots out there that need to be told the obvious things otherwise they end up doing the truly stupid things.
Now I want to see a show where an unsuspecting anxiety ridden Nurse accidentally takes out a mob boss and has to run the gang while juggling their work, love and social life.
Considering that he got shot in the arm, not the face, my real life response would probably be, "really, man? You didn't think you should give this to someone else before ems got there?" That's why I'm not a doctor. Because I'm pretty dumb and bad at hiding my reactions. Also the part with all the blood.
I don't mind the blood, but the unsaveable dying women and children plus the poop and infected smells is why I never went into medicine. Also my bedside manner is more House than Mr. Rodgers, so I would be sued so fast, like career ending speed run fast.
The general risk assessment is that medical personal don't know as much about firearms as Law enforcement - and LEOs don't know much. And you generally have other things to do that are more important than causing a negligent discharge in the ER.
Beside, do you really want to trust the Triage Nurse with a loaded firearm?
IF you run across a firearm on a patient, (which is really isn't a common thing), it gets placed in a lockbox and then locked into a "safe room". Chances are good there be a cop there in a short order anyway due to the patient having been shot by a gun.
I honestly didn't know that, I tend not to live my life in a way that would preclude me being shot or being around folks who will shoot someone. Thanks for the info! :)
Gun safety courses actually discuss (at length, at least in my state) about how even if you've just got the gun on your desk next to you, but it's loaded, it needs to be pointed in a safe direction. Even doing dry fire exercises (practicing, say, holstering/unholstering with the gun unloaded and the magazine removed entirely), you're supposed to point the gun down at where the floor meets the wall to minimize any chance of anyone being hurt by an accident discharge.
Basically, you're supposed to follow the same rules as if the gun was loaded and you're holding it: don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy, and know both what it is pointed at and what lies beyond that.
I personally wouldn't want a doctor on their 23rd hour of work to try to unload a firearm in a crowded and hectic ER, and don't have the answer to how to handle this situation, but I'm not a medical professional so...
I'm confident that, maybe with 5min instructional time from a gun guy (or gal, women are the fastest growing group of gun owners today), anyone with a phd could be taught "push button, remove mag, rack slide" and "push button, swing cylinder, push ejector rod out."
They really aren't as hard to learn to use safely as Alec Baldwin would have you believe. Shooting accurately is another matter but simply being safe is as easy as learning 4 rules and a basic knowledge of how common firearms function.
Edit: here, I'll link a video where for three easy payments of $29.99 in one whole minute and 38 seconds you too can learn how to clear semi auto handguns (the most common type of gun by a mile) safely like a pro!
It's harder to learn for many people than you might think. There are 1000's of different kinds of types and models many with subtle differences from one another from one year to the next. Nor do you know just how mechanically sound that gangbanger's gun is either - what parts might be broken, missing, or badly modified.
It's probably not worth the risk when you can just place it in a lockbox and call the cops to deal with it.
Sure there's 1000s of diff types but he doesn't have a vickers or an mg-42 stuffed down his joggers, he has one of the many revolvers or semi autos that all function the same way. Probably could narrow it down even further, it's likely either a glock (26, 43, 45, 19, 19x, or 17), a sig (p320 or p365), a S&W (m&p or sd9ve), a Ruger (mkIII or IV, lcp9), a taurus (lol gross), or a hi-point (also lol) or any crappy .22lr revolver. For 99.9% of guns you encounter (unless your friend is a collector,) they're all going to function similarly enough to at least get it cleared.
As to broken or badly modified, typically it can still be cleared, I've never seen a gun so badly broken that dropping the mag or racking the slide fires it. In theory, sure, but that's why you're following all the rules of gun safety and pointing it in a safe direction (at something that'll catch the bullet if all goes wrong.)
I've seen literal children learn how, if they can I hope a surgeon can.
Well medical accidents kill more people per year in the US than guns, including suicide and accidents. Oddly enough.
(Frankly though if a gang member is shot, he was probably brought in by paramedics, and therefore before they were able to administer care the police secured the scene, so he was probably cuffed to the stretcher, already searched, and accompanied by two or more cops, and this question is frankly silly to begin with.)
I was a medic for 15 years. Ain't no one EVER going to cuff a patient to a cot. We can't even transport a cuffed patient. Hard restrains are illegal for us to use. And no cop is ever going to ride in the back of an ambulance. They will follow in a squad car, but they won't ride with. And maybe the police secured the scene, maybe they didn't. Maybe they had time to search the patient, maybe they didn't. It's not always picture perfect. And yes, medical mistakes kill more people. But, the job is to prevent killing more people due to missed or lacking protocols. So we do what we can to prevent even one.
And no, this isn't a silly discussion. We do indeed need to have protocols in place involving weapons because it is a real thing and we discuss scenarios where this happens. And while I never had to remove a firearm myself, I have relieved more than one patient of knives, brass knuckles, tears gas, and one leather sap while doing my assessment. And it happened enough we equipped every ambulance with a lock box to secure them. When I retired, they were considering get kevlar vests for the us. Not so much because of guns, but knives. While not a perfect solution it did offer some small protection. At least a bit more than just a jump bag does. We could even take special self defense seminars on how to protect yourself in the confines of the ambulance, and do so without leaving a mark on a patient - it's considered VERY bad form to beat up your patient. And it was an odd month were you didn't get assaulted at least once. I think I averaged about 3 a month or so. Things often be whack after midnight yo.
You would think that. But the number of trained soldiers who have been punished for a negligent discharge while clearing their weapon would say otherwise. Also, you have to assume everyone employed at that ER is at the end of a 48 hour double shift where every attempt to sleep was interrupted less than an hour later.
Idk man I can't sit here and claim to be so ridiculously intelligent I can learn how to cycle a firearm faster than a literal surgeon. I mean, when I learned I was a pizza delivery man. I may have a different job now, but if a pizza man can learn it I'd hope a surgeon could pick it up pretty quick, "it isn't brain surgery."
The learning isn't the problem. The exhaustion is. If people who are highly trained with firearms cannot reliably clear them while exhausted then nobody can. And the medical industry insists on seriously overworking staff.
While true, I'd rather the gun actually be made safe, didn't wear my plate carrier to work today lol.
"Sorry cops, my life is more important to me, if you need prints get them off the guy's fingers who's pants I just pulled this out of, it isn't really a question of who had it, it was him."
Oh I apologize, I kind of saw through the lense of an American so I assumed basic firearm knowledge. We have 15 guns per person so there really is no excuse not to know over here. With that in mind the possibility of discharge goes down because a gun with no ammo does not discharge.
And this is why statistics classes are important. Only 30% of US adults own guns. So at 15 guns per person, that means most of those people own a fuckton of guns. I'd hazard a guess to say most of those people are not in the medical field.
Most American adults do not own a gun, probably have never fired a gun, and their only training is from video games.
Regardless of owning a gun: when they're so commonplace then you should learn the basics, it could save a life someday knowing about the safety, magazine, chamber, and about never pointing a gun, loaded or otherwise, at anything that you don't intend to destroy.
Amassing guns does not mean amassing knowledge and training on how to properly use them. On a side note, the actual number is more like 1.2 guns per civilian, which is (terrifyingly) impressive.
Even if that number wouldn't be a simple average, it still doesn't mean each civilian has received proper training or is even fit for handling a gun, even though 72% have apparently at least once fired a gun in their lifetime - though that can literally mean they onced pulled the trigger on a hunting trip with dad at age 7, with him holding the gun.
I understand but we've all seen the video of buff 'locs shot himself while giving a gun safety course to students. No need to get poor Mary, the nurse who has been on shift for 14 hours because the hospital refuses to staff properly, any extra duties that she hasn't been explicitly trained for.
The prompt outlines that a physician has the gun. IN THEIR HANDS. Every possible answer has the same concern that you just outlined, we've crossed that line a while back.
One: do you know anything about that model of firearm? Does it have a safety? Can it slam-fire if handled improperly?
Two: Is there important information that can be conveyed by the present condition of the firearm. Was it a shooting or an accident. Would clearing the firearm remove important information that can be used to ascertain what happened?
Three: Preserving the firearm can preserve evidence. While that is not necessarily part of the duty of medical staff, there's no reason to risk destroying evidence if the firearm can be safely isolated with minimal disturbance.
Four: Why do it? An isolated, secure gun isn't going to decide to start blasting people on its own. What advantage is there to handling the gun more than is necessary in that situation? Get it out of the way and keep working.
You're already assumed to be handling the gun from the onset. Most handguns are pretty standard if they're from this century. The physician is likely wearing gloves and the conviction isn't as important as everybody's immediate safety. The gun isn't in an isolated secure place, this is a physician's office.
All the above except C obviously. Id probably sedate the patient though and see if they got any booger sugar or money on them, they ain't gon need it where they headed. "Knowhatimsayin" -J to the motherfuckin R-O-C
It's a free gun without a paper trail, why would you not tuck that shit. You do homie a favor and you get a nice drop piece to fold some clothes later.
B, but you actually use it to get attention and yell to everyone to "calm the fuck down and be cool." Then safely and discretely dispose of the evidence to get in good with your local gang.
I am not a doctor, but I do know how to handle firearms, so I would also unload and ensure that the gun is not in a condition to fire. This would probably dock me points for diluting potential evidence or some such horseshit, but it'd still be the right thing to do. Provided you knew what you were doing.
Doing anything to the gun is probably a bad idea, even if you have experience with firearms. This gun came from a gang member, it could be in a very janky altered condition that makes it act unpredictably. If you're going to try to disarm it anyway then you should still move it outside first before attempting that just in case it malfunctions and fires while you're trying to manipulate it
(Though tbf, while pointing a safe direction is always imperative, I've yet to see a gun fire from having the mag dropped or the slide racked, or the cylinder swung out, and I'm very experienced with firearms. Typically when a gun "just goes off" it was because they "just 'accidentally' touched the trigger.")
Hospitals have security for a reason. You touching a gun when they have procedures on how to handle this situation is dangerous. If you are on staff you follow procedures. If you are just there and do know about gun safety you would know not to pick up that gun.
A is wrong because whoever wrote this is in no position to evaluate if the person reading it is capable of "to check if the gun is loaded" without blowing their own head off.
D is wrong because the person whoever wrote this is in no position to evaluate if the person reading it is capable of "hold the gun personally" without blowing their own head off.
A is additionally wrong because you don't know the condition of the firearm. If it is not mechanically sound, manipulating it in any way could cause it to discharge in the worst case, or possibly jamming it in an unsafe condition. Best to let someone get it to a safer location before trying anything. There's likely no especially safe direction to allow a firearm to discharge in a hospital, much less the ED.
I agree that's what they want you to answer, but you can't move it to a safe location without handling it, so C necessarily entails D. Unless there's a designated firearm handler in the ER you can call over, which to be fair, maybe there should be.
If you are at a hospital in the hood they probably have armed security. The ones in the city nearest me certainly do. One would hope they know how to safely handle a firearm as well as have some manner of secure storage someplace, so that'd probably be their department. At least until the cops inevitably get involved.
You're being too pedantic about wording. The right answer is to make it most safe while minimizing the chance of it accidentally firing. Simply moving it to a locked room down the hallway is the best way to achieve that.
Unless you pass by a "good person with a gun" seeing you with a gun and killing you because you're carrying a gun on the way.
The only answer is to leave the gun where it is without touching it, exit the room with the patient, lock the door from outside, leave the building yourself, light a cigarette, forget about whatever the problem was, go home, because they aren't paying you enough to get shot on your job
Lmao I would absolutely not trust some random Healthcare worker to both verify a handgun is unloaded, and safely hold onto it for any amount of time.
The answer is clearly, obviously, and only C.
Tbf if nobody in the room has experience handling them, it'd be better to tell a nurse to grab the security guard or something than to handle it at all.
That said, if there's a possibility one may be in this situation they should take the 5 whole minutes to learn one day, as the actual safest option is to A) know what you're doing and clear it or B) don't even touch it until someone does clear it, though this could impact medical care or the speed with which it is delivered.
C.
I worked at a hospital and at the hospital I worked at they would have called Security to secure the gun. There may even be an off duty police officer on staff at the time of the incident.
A then C. If you know how to do it1 ofc. If you don't, then assume it is. Very different situation if the weapon is loaded. Both require C, but one much more intensely than the other.
Footnotes
Hopefully /s is obvious enough here, but I'm not taking chances: /s, OK? ↩
Insufficient information. Need to know the physician's gang affiliation.
Does the patient look like a bitch?
Unconscious and pathetic on a hospital bed? Yeah, kinda. /s
W-w-what?
ENGLISH! MOTHERF#$KER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!
[Said Mr. Jackson using his inside voice]
C. Since it just wants one and I would think the immediate safety of people involves moving it away and then tending to the patient.
Messing with the weapon, checking whether it’s empty, isn’t necessary and you’d still have to move it anyway
Shit. Looks like we forgot about him again.
HE SPECIFICALLY TOLD US NOT TO DO THAT....
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Forget about Dre. What would Cube do?
Good, you can work in the ER. Healthcare workers are not assumed to know every firearm and how to operate them, even though we are in America.
I had a girlfriend that was always studying 24/7 for her tests and never had time for me. One day she asked me to help her study and her entire exam was stuff like this, I kid you not. I realized she was too dumb for me and dumped her.
Lmaooo what was she studying?
So... If it wanted more than one what would you select?
B and then E just to keep everyone confused.
This is just like the dumb HR tests that are like "You see a coworker engage in inappropriate behavior. Should you A. Notify your supervisor, B. Punch them in the face, C. Piss on the floor.
At least the correct answer is obvious instead of a test with vaguely-worded trick questions and ambiguous answers. Those are the tests that make me livid.
I know right? Clearly you piss on the floor.
The secret is to choose the most Ned Flanders response.
I work in a place that's closed off to the public by Federal Law, where you need to badge in, just a janitor, nothing fancy, they make us watch training videos and stuff. They warn us to pay maximum attention, because we'll be barred from the site if we fail, losing our jobs in the process.
And the questions are things like
"Which of the following is safe to drink? A) Filtered Water, B) Literal Poison, C) Lava, D, A School Bus"
It's so blatantly rigged in the favor of the test taker that I suspect they literally wouldn't even have the test if it wasn't a legal requirement.
We also keep getting tested for things that don't even make sense, like recently we were meant to watch a thing on where and when it's safe to take a smoke break.... Despite the fact that tobacco and marijuana are banned form the site and will be confiscated by security if we bring any... So what exactly are they smoking
Oh right, we're meant to be smoking chocolate, forgot the Troy McClure film.
Seriously though, most of my training is entirely irrelevant as they involve scenarios I'd never be in due to the nature of my job, scenarios I'm literally not allowed to be in, or scenarios that don't even exist in the first place..
And the questions are always things like
"If your supervisor asks you to do something illegal should you..." and the answers are non-sequitur alongside the real answer, like - A) Report it to the company hotline for illegal activity 555-555-5555 B) Oppress Women & Minorities, C) Run naked into a blizzard, D) Jump off a cliff and into spikes, or E) Pray to Magi-Chan Sonichu in order to hasten the coming of the Dimensional Merge"
The most subtle examples of this are when they ask a question, and one of the answers is suspiciously and overly detailed, while the others are so overly generic that it's like they wrote the right answer for one, and then just whatever they can think of off the top of their heads.
fun fact but I find the opposite to be true in trivia games, if an answer is too detailed it's more likely to be false. That's how I won a trivia game about the life of some guy when I barely recognised his name
These are less for your education as it is for management/HR to absolve responsibility: "We trained them to not do , it's not our fault they did it"
No shit
We have such a test too, but not as extremely dumb. But it's still in the realm of: how do you wear your high-vis-vest? A: well visible from all sides B: hidden under your jacket to not get it dirty.
See, you and I may think things like this are obvious but there are some idiots out there that need to be told the obvious things otherwise they end up doing the truly stupid things.
I snorted while eating and almost choke thanks to your comment.
Is this multiple choice or just a suggested series of steps?
Now I want to see a show where an unsuspecting anxiety ridden Nurse accidentally takes out a mob boss and has to run the gang while juggling their work, love and social life.
Unironically an unexplored Nic Cage movie genre.
You kind of just described the subplot of The Brothers Sun.
A. Looks into the barrel with a flashlight
DAEBC easy peasy
That's a nice movie script.
House M.D
I like the way you think
How about treat the patient 😶
That's step F, after performing the other steps in the order of DAEBC.
Finally, the correct answer!
Look. Doing A-E is going to be expensive enough for the young fella. I don't think he can also afford gunshot wound treatment.
In pretty much any "help anyone" kind of procedure or training step 1 is to ensure your own safety.
F*. Shoot the patient in the head.
*Police version only.
*shoot the victim in the head
FTFY
Thank you, my bad.
*as police, shoot the black person in the head
FTFY
Every medical drill is like this.
"I asses the patient"
"Haha fuckyou they had a katana, you are impaled, and failed to assess basic vitals. They go into respiratory failure. As such you failed america
I don't like the DM (｡•́︿•̀｡)
"Patient is presenting with chest pain and shortness of breath."
"Roll for initiative."
I vote for E
A => D => E
Beat up the rival gang members until they are all laying on the floor in a pile => B.
E.
"Don't worry Mr. Patient, I'll avenge you!"
When Agent 47 is your doctor.
F. See if gang member has insurance to cover for his treatment
G. Charge extra for handling firearm
H. Deferred treatment
I nominate Niel Patrick Harris for the role of "love interest"
Considering that he got shot in the arm, not the face, my real life response would probably be, "really, man? You didn't think you should give this to someone else before ems got there?" That's why I'm not a doctor. Because I'm pretty dumb and bad at hiding my reactions. Also the part with all the blood.
I don't mind the blood, but the unsaveable dying women and children plus the poop and infected smells is why I never went into medicine. Also my bedside manner is more House than Mr. Rodgers, so I would be sued so fast, like career ending speed run fast.
— Mordin Solus
C is okay but why are we not allowed to put the safety on and safely remove all of the ammunition?
The general risk assessment is that medical personal don't know as much about firearms as Law enforcement - and LEOs don't know much. And you generally have other things to do that are more important than causing a negligent discharge in the ER.
Beside, do you really want to trust the Triage Nurse with a loaded firearm?
Triage is going to be a bit quicker today.
He's dead Jim.
At the least, someone might be getting to the head of the line quickly............
I don't trust leaving it behind a desk counter or in a cabinet with bullets in it, personally, I feel like that's the more dangerous option.
IF you run across a firearm on a patient, (which is really isn't a common thing), it gets placed in a lockbox and then locked into a "safe room". Chances are good there be a cop there in a short order anyway due to the patient having been shot by a gun.
It's good that most hospitals have a system in place to handle the situation.
I honestly didn't know that, I tend not to live my life in a way that would preclude me being shot or being around folks who will shoot someone. Thanks for the info! :)
The overwhelming number of tend to live like you also. It's a just a few of us that make a choice to have to deal with such less than savory people.
Gun safety courses actually discuss (at length, at least in my state) about how even if you've just got the gun on your desk next to you, but it's loaded, it needs to be pointed in a safe direction. Even doing dry fire exercises (practicing, say, holstering/unholstering with the gun unloaded and the magazine removed entirely), you're supposed to point the gun down at where the floor meets the wall to minimize any chance of anyone being hurt by an accident discharge.
Basically, you're supposed to follow the same rules as if the gun was loaded and you're holding it: don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy, and know both what it is pointed at and what lies beyond that.
I personally wouldn't want a doctor on their 23rd hour of work to try to unload a firearm in a crowded and hectic ER, and don't have the answer to how to handle this situation, but I'm not a medical professional so...
I'm confident that, maybe with 5min instructional time from a gun guy (or gal, women are the fastest growing group of gun owners today), anyone with a phd could be taught "push button, remove mag, rack slide" and "push button, swing cylinder, push ejector rod out."
They really aren't as hard to learn to use safely as Alec Baldwin would have you believe. Shooting accurately is another matter but simply being safe is as easy as learning 4 rules and a basic knowledge of how common firearms function.
Edit: here, I'll link a video where
for three easy payments of $29.99in one whole minute and 38 seconds you too can learn how to clear semi auto handguns (the most common type of gun by a mile) safely like a pro!You see how easy this is? A surgeon should be competent enough to learn how to do this.
It's harder to learn for many people than you might think. There are 1000's of different kinds of types and models many with subtle differences from one another from one year to the next. Nor do you know just how mechanically sound that gangbanger's gun is either - what parts might be broken, missing, or badly modified.
It's probably not worth the risk when you can just place it in a lockbox and call the cops to deal with it.
Sure there's 1000s of diff types but he doesn't have a vickers or an mg-42 stuffed down his joggers, he has one of the many revolvers or semi autos that all function the same way. Probably could narrow it down even further, it's likely either a glock (26, 43, 45, 19, 19x, or 17), a sig (p320 or p365), a S&W (m&p or sd9ve), a Ruger (mkIII or IV, lcp9), a taurus (lol gross), or a hi-point (also lol) or any crappy .22lr revolver. For 99.9% of guns you encounter (unless your friend is a collector,) they're all going to function similarly enough to at least get it cleared.
As to broken or badly modified, typically it can still be cleared, I've never seen a gun so badly broken that dropping the mag or racking the slide fires it. In theory, sure, but that's why you're following all the rules of gun safety and pointing it in a safe direction (at something that'll catch the bullet if all goes wrong.)
I've seen literal children learn how, if they can I hope a surgeon can.
You have no clue about medical liability do you.
Well medical accidents kill more people per year in the US than guns, including suicide and accidents. Oddly enough.
(Frankly though if a gang member is shot, he was probably brought in by paramedics, and therefore before they were able to administer care the police secured the scene, so he was probably cuffed to the stretcher, already searched, and accompanied by two or more cops, and this question is frankly silly to begin with.)
I was a medic for 15 years. Ain't no one EVER going to cuff a patient to a cot. We can't even transport a cuffed patient. Hard restrains are illegal for us to use. And no cop is ever going to ride in the back of an ambulance. They will follow in a squad car, but they won't ride with. And maybe the police secured the scene, maybe they didn't. Maybe they had time to search the patient, maybe they didn't. It's not always picture perfect. And yes, medical mistakes kill more people. But, the job is to prevent killing more people due to missed or lacking protocols. So we do what we can to prevent even one.
And no, this isn't a silly discussion. We do indeed need to have protocols in place involving weapons because it is a real thing and we discuss scenarios where this happens. And while I never had to remove a firearm myself, I have relieved more than one patient of knives, brass knuckles, tears gas, and one leather sap while doing my assessment. And it happened enough we equipped every ambulance with a lock box to secure them. When I retired, they were considering get kevlar vests for the us. Not so much because of guns, but knives. While not a perfect solution it did offer some small protection. At least a bit more than just a jump bag does. We could even take special self defense seminars on how to protect yourself in the confines of the ambulance, and do so without leaving a mark on a patient - it's considered VERY bad form to beat up your patient. And it was an odd month were you didn't get assaulted at least once. I think I averaged about 3 a month or so. Things often be whack after midnight yo.
Or just put it in a lockbox
If they have one, but it's still safer to put an unloaded gun in an anything.
You would think that. But the number of trained soldiers who have been punished for a negligent discharge while clearing their weapon would say otherwise. Also, you have to assume everyone employed at that ER is at the end of a 48 hour double shift where every attempt to sleep was interrupted less than an hour later.
Idk man I can't sit here and claim to be so ridiculously intelligent I can learn how to cycle a firearm faster than a literal surgeon. I mean, when I learned I was a pizza delivery man. I may have a different job now, but if a pizza man can learn it I'd hope a surgeon could pick it up pretty quick, "it isn't brain surgery."
The learning isn't the problem. The exhaustion is. If people who are highly trained with firearms cannot reliably clear them while exhausted then nobody can. And the medical industry insists on seriously overworking staff.
If you're too exhausted to clear a gun, you're too exhausted to surgery me. Let the doc go home.
That's not how capitalism works.
You're a great example why there should be more gun laws. That is probably the most dangerous reply I've ever heard.
I've literally seen children learn, have more faith in your surgeons, I guess.
Consider that the gun may be part of the crime scene. The more people interact with it, the less useful it is as evidence.
While true, I'd rather the gun actually be made safe, didn't wear my plate carrier to work today lol.
"Sorry cops, my life is more important to me, if you need prints get them off the guy's fingers who's pants I just pulled this out of, it isn't really a question of who had it, it was him."
Who cares? It's an immediate threat if untouched, and the gangster's clothes are already covered in gunpowder.
Medical staff arn't trained with guns and they figure there's less possibility of an accidental discharge the less people are touching it
Oh I apologize, I kind of saw through the lense of an American so I assumed basic firearm knowledge. We have 15 guns per person so there really is no excuse not to know over here. With that in mind the possibility of discharge goes down because a gun with no ammo does not discharge.
And this is why statistics classes are important. Only 30% of US adults own guns. So at 15 guns per person, that means most of those people own a fuckton of guns. I'd hazard a guess to say most of those people are not in the medical field.
Most American adults do not own a gun, probably have never fired a gun, and their only training is from video games.
Also, a good handful of the people who DO own a weapon, have no training in the weapon and don't know how to use or handle one safely.
Regardless of owning a gun: when they're so commonplace then you should learn the basics, it could save a life someday knowing about the safety, magazine, chamber, and about never pointing a gun, loaded or otherwise, at anything that you don't intend to destroy.
Amassing guns does not mean amassing knowledge and training on how to properly use them. On a side note, the actual number is more like 1.2 guns per civilian, which is (terrifyingly) impressive.
Even if that number wouldn't be a simple average, it still doesn't mean each civilian has received proper training or is even fit for handling a gun, even though 72% have apparently at least once fired a gun in their lifetime - though that can literally mean they onced pulled the trigger on a hunting trip with dad at age 7, with him holding the gun.
Honestly, let me speak as an American as well: People shouldn't be handling guns at all.
Sources: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/
https://www.smallarmssurvey.org/
You probably meant to link to this rather than the SAS homepage: LINK
Also, by that estimate, there are less registered firearms than total US Soldiers in the military...
This explicitly estimates civilian gun ownership.
So then what was the point of using that as an argument against my estimate if it was an intentionally incomplete dataset?
I understand but we've all seen the video of buff 'locs shot himself while giving a gun safety course to students. No need to get poor Mary, the nurse who has been on shift for 14 hours because the hospital refuses to staff properly, any extra duties that she hasn't been explicitly trained for.
The prompt outlines that a physician has the gun. IN THEIR HANDS. Every possible answer has the same concern that you just outlined, we've crossed that line a while back.
It doesn't say that. I'm feeling that you aren't arguing in good faith.
You think you can do any of the given responses without touching the gun?
I'm done with your obviously stupid questions. Have a great life. Didn't waste your time replying I'm blocking you to save both of us time.
Couple reasons.
One: do you know anything about that model of firearm? Does it have a safety? Can it slam-fire if handled improperly?
Two: Is there important information that can be conveyed by the present condition of the firearm. Was it a shooting or an accident. Would clearing the firearm remove important information that can be used to ascertain what happened?
Three: Preserving the firearm can preserve evidence. While that is not necessarily part of the duty of medical staff, there's no reason to risk destroying evidence if the firearm can be safely isolated with minimal disturbance.
Four: Why do it? An isolated, secure gun isn't going to decide to start blasting people on its own. What advantage is there to handling the gun more than is necessary in that situation? Get it out of the way and keep working.
You're already assumed to be handling the gun from the onset. Most handguns are pretty standard if they're from this century. The physician is likely wearing gloves and the conviction isn't as important as everybody's immediate safety. The gun isn't in an isolated secure place, this is a physician's office.
So if you were studying to be a physician and you were given this test question you would refuse to answer it?
So then you're already handling a loaded weapon and your previous statement was in denial. Stay in your lane.
Most modern handguns do not have a (manually operated) safety.
"A" is the answer closest to "remove all of the ammunition".
by firing it which is stupid.
That's "B".
Ah yeah mb, just feels like A didn't give much of a complete answer.
All the above except C obviously. Id probably sedate the patient though and see if they got any booger sugar or money on them, they ain't gon need it where they headed. "Knowhatimsayin" -J to the motherfuckin R-O-C
B.
Specifically at an oblique angle for maximum ricochet.
Everyone here just straight up ignoring the fact that option B is completely correct.
It's a trick question, you fire the bullets into the patient to increase revenue
100%. Need to get the bullets out the gun
Eject the magazine and then pull back the slide to eject anything in the chamber.
Instructions unclear. Revolver went off half-cocked.
It's a free gun without a paper trail, why would you not tuck that shit. You do homie a favor and you get a nice drop piece to fold some clothes later.
You've never done a desk pop?
B, but you actually use it to get attention and yell to everyone to "calm the fuck down and be cool." Then safely and discretely dispose of the evidence to get in good with your local gang.
"Be cool honey bunny."
#retribution
What's actually the answer though? I would think A, D, C in that order is probably best, but I'm guessing they just want C?
The most lawyer friendly answer is probably C.
I am not a doctor, but I do know how to handle firearms, so I would also unload and ensure that the gun is not in a condition to fire. This would probably dock me points for diluting potential evidence or some such horseshit, but it'd still be the right thing to do. Provided you knew what you were doing.
Doing anything to the gun is probably a bad idea, even if you have experience with firearms. This gun came from a gang member, it could be in a very janky altered condition that makes it act unpredictably. If you're going to try to disarm it anyway then you should still move it outside first before attempting that just in case it malfunctions and fires while you're trying to manipulate it
...And get it pointed at something that can catch a pistol round.
(Though tbf, while pointing a safe direction is always imperative, I've yet to see a gun fire from having the mag dropped or the slide racked, or the cylinder swung out, and I'm very experienced with firearms. Typically when a gun "just goes off" it was because they "just 'accidentally' touched the trigger.")
Hospitals have security for a reason. You touching a gun when they have procedures on how to handle this situation is dangerous. If you are on staff you follow procedures. If you are just there and do know about gun safety you would know not to pick up that gun.
It's not difficult.
A is wrong because whoever wrote this is in no position to evaluate if the person reading it is capable of "to check if the gun is loaded" without blowing their own head off.
D is wrong because the person whoever wrote this is in no position to evaluate if the person reading it is capable of "hold the gun personally" without blowing their own head off.
C is the only correct answer.
E is answer cause bitches be whack
A is additionally wrong because you don't know the condition of the firearm. If it is not mechanically sound, manipulating it in any way could cause it to discharge in the worst case, or possibly jamming it in an unsafe condition. Best to let someone get it to a safer location before trying anything. There's likely no especially safe direction to allow a firearm to discharge in a hospital, much less the ED.
I agree that's what they want you to answer, but you can't move it to a safe location without handling it, so C necessarily entails D. Unless there's a designated firearm handler in the ER you can call over, which to be fair, maybe there should be.
If you are at a hospital in the hood they probably have armed security. The ones in the city nearest me certainly do. One would hope they know how to safely handle a firearm as well as have some manner of secure storage someplace, so that'd probably be their department. At least until the cops inevitably get involved.
You're being too pedantic about wording. The right answer is to make it most safe while minimizing the chance of it accidentally firing. Simply moving it to a locked room down the hallway is the best way to achieve that.
Unless you pass by a "good person with a gun" seeing you with a gun and killing you because you're carrying a gun on the way.
The only answer is to leave the gun where it is without touching it, exit the room with the patient, lock the door from outside, leave the building yourself, light a cigarette, forget about whatever the problem was, go home, because they aren't paying you enough to get shot on your job
If you're a surgeon, they might be
Lmao I would absolutely not trust some random Healthcare worker to both verify a handgun is unloaded, and safely hold onto it for any amount of time. The answer is clearly, obviously, and only C.
I wouldn't trust a doctor to clear a weapon. It's stupid easy, if you know what you're doing.
B is the correct answer.
Tbf if nobody in the room has experience handling them, it'd be better to tell a nurse to grab the security guard or something than to handle it at all.
That said, if there's a possibility one may be in this situation they should take the 5 whole minutes to learn one day, as the actual safest option is to A) know what you're doing and clear it or B) don't even touch it until someone does clear it, though this could impact medical care or the speed with which it is delivered.
C. I worked at a hospital and at the hospital I worked at they would have called Security to secure the gun. There may even be an off duty police officer on staff at the time of the incident.
A then C. If you know how to do it1 ofc. If you don't, then assume it is. Very different situation if the weapon is loaded. Both require C, but one much more intensely than the other.
Footnotes
Hopefully /s is obvious enough here, but I'm not taking chances: /s, OK? ↩
Isn't it blatantly C?
Nah bro it's clearly option F which isn't shown but includes all the answers except C shaking my smh
No, it's E or B if there are no other gangs left.
On the one hand, c seems logical. But on the other hand, e is tempting...
Depends. If the patient lives, it's D. If he dies, you need to revenge him, so E
Exactly. No one wants a doctor who won't fight for their patients
But as a student, you should have humility and assume you're going to fuck up and kill your patient, that's the trap
E. Final answer
I was expecting one of the answers to be blatantly racist. It's like this test doesn't even want to prepare students for real life.
I hate being a snitch but they are called throwaways for a reason, homie! Don't bring your problems up in the ED.
If Grey's Anatomy has taught anything its D, but then B.
If House has taught me anything, it's D, but then E.
In grey's, E is the side plot lol
E followed by B obviously
B
Desk pop.