Ah yes. The famous quote from Jesus when he said, "thou shalt exploit thy workers for maximum profit without regard for the worker's well-being." in Rand 420:69
Or when Jesus said, "Thou must love thyself above thy neighbor." in Freedman 6:66
Kids being able to form their own unions in schools have never been a bad idea - but for some reason nobody on the left has ever spoken about this (as far as I can tell.)
Not as fucked up as it sounds. Federally, the minimum working age is 16 and parents are legally required to keep their kids in school until they're 16. Most Aussies believe you need to be 14 and 9 months to get a job (beyond the family business), as that was an older minimum schooling requirement (decades ago).
Combined with the high quality of living, low poverty rate, high immigration (suppressing wages), and high minimum wage, this functionally meant that there was never any reason for the states to mandate a minimum working age — businesses didn't seek to employ them.
Obviously now that capitalism has corrupted most governments and abandoned the social contract, we need to rethink all norms of modern society.
As someone who grew up in NSW it's 14 and 9 months. Exceptions might exist for family businesses etc. but your 8-year-old can't apply for a job at Woolies.
Some people would rather be poor in a house than poor on the streets. This ain't getting fixed in our lifetime make the best of your life you're able to
This happened in New South Wales, in a very rural area. People are not going to commute out to this remote location for minimum wage.
Kids volunteer on the weekends and parents sign off on it.
Some of the kids like it because they don't have anything else to do, they learn a job skill, and they make a little money.
That said, I don't agree with it. Hire adults and do what everyone else does by having a "bring your child to work day/week" if you want to teach kids. Or make a field trip. Let's not go backwards in society to benefit companies.
Having partially grown up with this shit, I would say these asshole can absolutely get fucked and do the work themselves. They good enough to count beans, they good enough to clear the land, plant em, take care of them, harvest them, and sell 'em all before they get to do beancounting duties. You count the beans you bring to market by the sweat of your own brows, no exceptions
Might help them realize why Protestant work ethic shit is garbage exploiter nonsense
I made this exact argument yesterday on the shit hole formerly known as Reddit, and of course got nothing but backlash from angry neck beards who think everyone should be allowed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps at the age of 11.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: ![email protected]
Essentially making posts and comments with an intent malicious in relation to the goals of the community with a clear intent of mocking or bullying, as well as coordinating such actions at scale.
Raiding is very bad because it doesn't actually serve to rectify the wrongs of the community or provoke deep thinking, but increases intolerance and hostility.
If you want Uplifting News to be actually uplifting, make your voice heard in the comment section on how short-sighted such approach is, and if somebody asks, direct them to the orphan crushing machine phenomenon. Also, post actually uplifting news - ones that would be seen as positive by absolute majority of the audience.
You went into a community meant for uplifting news in order to post news that are clearly not uplifting in order to mock the selection of uplifting news in the community.
order to mock the selection of uplifting news in the community
and clearly malicious.
It seems must live in my head to know what my intentions are, and I guess my malice? I have uploaded a few things to that community and this one is the first to get such push back. I guess the child jam workers was too much, but I assure you that your assumptions of my intentions on this are misplaced.
Reminds me of the story about a school field trip to a cotton farm and they got the kids to go out in the fields to pick cotton and at the end of the day they didn't get to keep the cotton they picked, the farm kept it.
This sucks and should be illegal. This should fucking onion article not for real. But goddammit our government just shurgs tells us how great the economy is. Biden and Democrats should be ashamed that under their watch they sold out to billionaire class allowing this to happen.
Fucking hell. Republicans are a god damn joke. They can't let women be in charge of their own bodies and they can't even allow kids to be kids. All that matters are the almighty capitalists.
God forbid their parents be paid well enough that these children are allowed to have a childhood before having to work 40+ years until they die chasing retirement. Kids are already in school for like 35 hours per week plus they have homework and chores. When are they supposed to play with toys, see friends, go outside, or participate in clubs or team sports or whatever they might be interested in?
Only a few decades ago it was normal for a single income to provide for a family, including owning a home and taking vacations. Then both parents started having to work. Now it's rare for a couple even without kids to be able to buy a house. And you're seriously defending the normalization of working parents sending their kids to work?! Fuck that. This is third world country shit that we used to adopt refugee children from, and now we're doing it to our own kids.
Extracurriculars are for rich kids only. The poor kids can't even afford the equipment, and it's not like they're gonna be going to an Ivy League anyway.
Kids don't want more, they are taught to desire things. All kids want really is the freedom and time to have fun, learn about the world, and maybe catch a toad or two if they're more the outside, exploratory type. So perhaps this wasn't at "gunpoint". The question then is "why are they working at some factory?" Who convinced them? Why are they there?
What you are attempting to speak on is called "responsibility". This is fine. However, no child should ever be coerced, tricked, guilted, or otherwise forced in any fashion to work in a society that has enough. Do the dishes at home? Sure. Mow the lawn? Okay. Vacuum the house? That's alright. Never as a stand-in at any institution when there are capable, older individuals to do that work, if that institution meets their needs, which the overwhelmingly vast majority of the time when you hear about these situations: They 100% do not.
Besides, since you're clearly one of those bootstraps folk: Don't you believe it is the responsibility of the older generations to responsibly teach and support future generations by making the world better than it was for us growing up?
Or did you buy that gaming rig and decide you're better than that?
Lol you fucking dipshit. This isn't about teenagers getting summer jobs. This clearly said primary school students. Maybe Merriam-Webster can help you to understand what that means.
Nowhere in the article it mentions it being a summer job.
It's an actual job, fulfilled by literal children (ages 11 and up, also stated in the article). There is nothing wrong with summer jobs, but there sure is something wrong with child labour.
Working an ice cream stand, being a camp counselor, or a life guard as a 14 year old is one thing. And working at your family restaurant or shop helping dad fill orders or take phone calls is one thing. Working a day job at a factory as an 11 year old is ridiculous. The factory has a labor shortage because theu wont pay living wages. I 100% guarantee that the people who support putting literal children to work are also rabidly against immigration.
We should all want and hope for better for our kids.
Giving them the ability to go to work at younger and younger ages is not making life better for kids. You can argue that it allows them to make good money and enable them to become good consumers, and sure, you're not wrong. But you have to realize that you're willingly siding with the capitalist machine here. When you start justifying things like child labor because labor shortages, you can easily start justifying things like 6 day work weeks, relaxed safety laws, longer working hours, etc. In 5-10 years, odds are they will push kids to work in other jobs than just "hospitality...or washing dishes" due to the "success" of it using the same argument of "labor shortage".
You have to understand that there are very good reasons why there are labor shortage at these places, and almost every single one of them is because companies do not want to pay their employees a living wage or offer any sort of benefits. It's the same reason there are lobbyists in Washington pushing to not increase the minimum wage.
Doesn't necessarily invalidate anything other than the few American specific sentences. The main point still is there. America might be king of stupid, but does not have a monopoly of stupid.
Okay, well disregard the lobbyists in Washington part, however the rest of it still applies.
Politicians understand that they can change ANYTHING as long as it's changed slowly enough. As innocent as this seems, I promise you that it is anything but. It's just the first step of many in the wrong direction.
Even if the jobs are safe, those kids need to be focusing on school. Kids also need unstructured play time to help their development. Kids this young who are in extra curricular activities every day often have decreased mental health and academic performance. And I highly doubt employers are going to appreciate an employee who only works for an hour or two on weekends.
It's the slippery slope that's the problem. It starts with washing dishes. Then they help a bit in the warehouse. After that just delivering stuff in production. And helping a little bit when someone needs a bathroom break in production. And helping a bit more.
Hey, is it true you want children in the workforce so you can sexually harass them to help prepare them for the real world? I'm not accusing you, I'm just asking the question.
…solves the low-wage problem by hiring kids who don’t know better.
Then we'll just have to organise and unionise the kids too!
Or better yet, we should enact laws that protect children from the workforce. Maybe we can call them "child labor laws"
A preposterous idea! - conservatives, apparently.
You hate American and want [others] to have more [economy, Jesus' love,reality shows].. you monsters
Ah yes. The famous quote from Jesus when he said, "thou shalt exploit thy workers for maximum profit without regard for the worker's well-being." in Rand 420:69
Or when Jesus said, "Thou must love thyself above thy neighbor." in Freedman 6:66
Freedom is where you can send your kids to the mines.
Be great if the kids learned to unionize early
It used to be a funny joke about sending them to the spice mines on Kessel.. now I miss them sometimes
I spilled child labor on our kid—now he's gone 🤪
Kids being able to form their own unions in schools have never been a bad idea - but for some reason nobody on the left has ever spoken about this (as far as I can tell.)
And they're at work instead of school so they don't learn better.
It's on the weekends, they wouldn't go to school anyway
Nor will they taste the freedom of being a child.
Just as what the overlord intended.
Pretty sure nobody is forcing them to go to work
School already deprives you of that
Well we all know the undereducated love voting republicunt against their own best interests
Wow did not realise that three of our states don't have a minimum working age - NSW, Tasmania and South Australia.
What? Source?
Edit: So there isn't.
https://www.safework.sa.gov.au/workers/wages-and-conditions
that is so fucked up
Not as fucked up as it sounds. Federally, the minimum working age is 16 and parents are legally required to keep their kids in school until they're 16. Most Aussies believe you need to be 14 and 9 months to get a job (beyond the family business), as that was an older minimum schooling requirement (decades ago).
Combined with the high quality of living, low poverty rate, high immigration (suppressing wages), and high minimum wage, this functionally meant that there was never any reason for the states to mandate a minimum working age — businesses didn't seek to employ them.
Obviously now that capitalism has corrupted most governments and abandoned the social contract, we need to rethink all norms of modern society.
Wait is this an Australian news story? I just assumed it was about somewhere here in the US
Oh we've been doing this shit too don't worry
Is it similar to Texas but with kangaroos?
Or is Texas similar to Australia but with guns?
Same. On second glance, though, the site in the tweet is a .net.au.
Not a guarantee, but certainly ups the odds.
If it weren't for the comment, I would haven't just not noticed. I assumed the same. That's fucked.
As someone who grew up in NSW it's 14 and 9 months. Exceptions might exist for family businesses etc. but your 8-year-old can't apply for a job at Woolies.
Apparently it used to be that, but now there is no limit: https://www.industrialrelations.nsw.gov.au/new-to-work/essential-information-for-people-new-to-work/new-to-work-faq/#:~:text=How%20old%20must%20I%20be,may%20apply%20relating%20to%20age.
Wait is this an Australian news story? I just assumed it was about somewhere here in the US
The children yearn for the jam factory
You can take the children out of the jam factory but you can't take the jam factory out of the children
Unless they fall into the industrial equipment, then you absolutely cannot take the children out of the jam factory.
"Local child jammed into jam factory jam jams jam jammer."
Edit: J's are starting to look weird to me after staring at this too long.
That’s my jam.
Child poverty is a big issue but people seem to forget that work is the best thing again poverty /s
Really? I'm over here in Texas and we seem to have found a completely different solution to childhood poverty. And childhood...
Guns and building schools across the street from poorly regulated fertilizer factories.
Where you work, but you’re still poor?
Some people would rather be poor in a house than poor on the streets. This ain't getting fixed in our lifetime make the best of your life you're able to
In that case, it's your fault. Source: it's always your fault, never blame the system. Only lazy people blame the system.
Yes. Hence the little known technical term "again poverty" in that post.
Some facts to consider:
That said, I don't agree with it. Hire adults and do what everyone else does by having a "bring your child to work day/week" if you want to teach kids. Or make a field trip. Let's not go backwards in society to benefit companies.
I grew up in a poor rural area, and we had a bunch of child labor due to agriculture exceptions.
Most of it wasn't kids earning a "life skill" or pocket money. It was poor kids who had to work. And usually their parents worked there too.
And they only need to be 12 for it to be legal.
The families need the kids to work, but the kids working inflates the labor pool and keeps wages low.
If a kids like 16 and wants to pick up a part time job, cool.
But little kids shouldn't be holding down jobs.
Having partially grown up with this shit, I would say these asshole can absolutely get fucked and do the work themselves. They good enough to count beans, they good enough to clear the land, plant em, take care of them, harvest them, and sell 'em all before they get to do beancounting duties. You count the beans you bring to market by the sweat of your own brows, no exceptions
Might help them realize why Protestant work ethic shit is garbage exploiter nonsense
I made this exact argument yesterday on the shit hole formerly known as Reddit, and of course got nothing but backlash from angry neck beards who think everyone should be allowed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps at the age of 11.
"minimum wage" <- thars yer prooblem
“Well if we pay much more than that, it will dip into OUR profit! What are we supposed to do, just make less money?!”
Can't spell "minimum wage" without "minimum age!"
They might commute if it was easy and cheaper than what they're paid. You want workers, make it worth their while.
Oh, well then, it's perfectly fine...
NO. WTF?!?
How many hours. If it's 2 or less per week I'm fine with it.
Wow, i swear they're about to write "jam factory help solve poverty by hiring child."
Jam factory solves lack of red-coloured blobby ingredients being forced through high-speed machinery by hiring children.
Call it what it is: child exploitation
I see red hats and reflexively cringe.
???
This should make you feel a murderous rage, not cringe.
Oh come on, Fred Durst isn't THAT bad
Agree to disagree
But fezzes are cool!
Fezzes are the sole exception, methinks. Iconic shape, could never be confused for a silly baseball cap.
As a 49ers fan I hate them just that little bit more for making red caps their thing.
Should this be cross posted to uplifting news? Seems about their speed.
Done, with some changes. https://mander.xyz/post/10393242
Update, they do not like it
Extra Update, they pulled it for not being "uplisfting" enough.
"admin Removed Post Great news for jam lovers! reason: Not uplisfting"
I do find it odd since they still have a lot of the same posts as here and orphan crushing machine.
Also, orphancrushing [email protected]
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: ![email protected]
Good bot
Thanks
Can we not bomb and raid other communities, pretty please?
I know the community is not perfect, but let's not turn Lemmy into a warzone. We're not on Reddit.
Just out of curiosity what do you define as raiding? I don't know much about the term as I never posted on reddit.
Essentially making posts and comments with an intent malicious in relation to the goals of the community with a clear intent of mocking or bullying, as well as coordinating such actions at scale.
Raiding is very bad because it doesn't actually serve to rectify the wrongs of the community or provoke deep thinking, but increases intolerance and hostility.
If you want Uplifting News to be actually uplifting, make your voice heard in the comment section on how short-sighted such approach is, and if somebody asks, direct them to the orphan crushing machine phenomenon. Also, post actually uplifting news - ones that would be seen as positive by absolute majority of the audience.
Thanks for the definition, however I never did the above and certainly nothing with malicious intent.
You went into a community meant for uplifting news in order to post news that are clearly not uplifting in order to mock the selection of uplifting news in the community.
This is not productive - and clearly malicious.
It seems must live in my head to know what my intentions are, and I guess my malice? I have uploaded a few things to that community and this one is the first to get such push back. I guess the child jam workers was too much, but I assure you that your assumptions of my intentions on this are misplaced.
This is slavery
I imagine this was a field trip or something like that and it has been evolving to be more rage inducing since that picture was taken.
Reminds me of the story about a school field trip to a cotton farm and they got the kids to go out in the fields to pick cotton and at the end of the day they didn't get to keep the cotton they picked, the farm kept it.
Like the fake treasure in the cave from South Park
I'm also thinking this is the case, especially since the kid's hat still has a tag on it. I imagine that would be a gift shop purchase.
He has to return it each shift otherwise they take it out of his paycheck.
I don't think that is the price tag. It looks to be the tag on the hat with what materials it is made of and washing instructions.
Res hats have just been ruined
If a school kid wants to work and earn money, let it be. There is nothing wrong with that.
This sucks and should be illegal. This should fucking onion article not for real. But goddammit our government just shurgs tells us how great the economy is. Biden and Democrats should be ashamed that under their watch they sold out to billionaire class allowing this to happen.
Hell they don't even call it out.
1- That's in Australia
2- As far as the US goes, Republicans are responsible for eliminating child labor protection laws. Just look at Sarah Huckabee Sanders in Arkansas.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/08/politics/sarah-huckabee-sanders-arkansas-child-labor/index.html
Indiana is trying to make it legal for a 14 year old to drop out of school for a full time job...
😂😂😂😂
Fucking hell. Republicans are a god damn joke. They can't let women be in charge of their own bodies and they can't even allow kids to be kids. All that matters are the almighty capitalists.
…You do realize this was in Australia? But yes keep blaming the democrats if it makes you feel better
Thanks Obama, mate
What a c-
Actually, I can't say that word. Y'all shouldn't either, but unfortunately you're not states yet so we can't stop you.
I'm from Texas and I can say it!
What a charming dude!
What does Biden and Democrats (assuming from the US) have to do with an Australian company?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-08/country-kids-solve-labour-shortage-jugiong-jam-factory/102181710
Article says it’s from an entirely different country….
As an Australian I am livid that Biden is simultaneously interfering too much and not enough in the work/life balance of Australian children
How could the non-existent Democrat party in Australia have allowed this to happen under their watch‽
As an American, I'm confused where Austra-lia is on a map. Must be in the middle east or maybe the Midwest...
abc.net.au.....
shurgs
God forbid their parents be paid well enough that these children are allowed to have a childhood before having to work 40+ years until they die chasing retirement. Kids are already in school for like 35 hours per week plus they have homework and chores. When are they supposed to play with toys, see friends, go outside, or participate in clubs or team sports or whatever they might be interested in?
Only a few decades ago it was normal for a single income to provide for a family, including owning a home and taking vacations. Then both parents started having to work. Now it's rare for a couple even without kids to be able to buy a house. And you're seriously defending the normalization of working parents sending their kids to work?! Fuck that. This is third world country shit that we used to adopt refugee children from, and now we're doing it to our own kids.
Extracurriculars are for rich kids only. The poor kids can't even afford the equipment, and it's not like they're gonna be going to an Ivy League anyway.
/s (this shouldn't be necessary)
Makes sense that you don't understand the difference between have to work and be able to work and why we need to protect children who have to work.
Top 5% globally isn't really impressive, or financially well off in the US.
If you make ~$20k/y in the US you're almost top 5% income globally. Around top 5% range globally is probably somewhat poor in the US. The lowest middle class household income in the US is $40k/y
Edit: but just to clarify, I wholeheartedly agree that we need to protect kids that have to work, or feel obligated/pressured to work.
So which one is it? Did your family had money to go around or were they financially not well of?
And how can we protect kids that have to work?
I'm not the user claiming to be top 5% globally, I just pointed out it's not really an indication that they're wealthy (by "western" standards)
Ups, my fault - then again they claim to have plenty of money to go around, so not sure it's that relevant of an observation.
Article is not about teenagers.
Article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-08/country-kids-solve-labour-shortage-jugiong-jam-factory/102181710
Is this supposed to be some kind of flex? If you make ~$20k/y in the US you're almost top 5% income globally. Around top 5% range globally is probably somewhat poor in the US. The lowest middle class household income in the US is $40k/y
Kids don't want more, they are taught to desire things. All kids want really is the freedom and time to have fun, learn about the world, and maybe catch a toad or two if they're more the outside, exploratory type. So perhaps this wasn't at "gunpoint". The question then is "why are they working at some factory?" Who convinced them? Why are they there?
What you are attempting to speak on is called "responsibility". This is fine. However, no child should ever be coerced, tricked, guilted, or otherwise forced in any fashion to work in a society that has enough. Do the dishes at home? Sure. Mow the lawn? Okay. Vacuum the house? That's alright. Never as a stand-in at any institution when there are capable, older individuals to do that work, if that institution meets their needs, which the overwhelmingly vast majority of the time when you hear about these situations: They 100% do not.
Besides, since you're clearly one of those bootstraps folk: Don't you believe it is the responsibility of the older generations to responsibly teach and support future generations by making the world better than it was for us growing up?
Or did you buy that gaming rig and decide you're better than that?
Just saying.
Lol you fucking dipshit. This isn't about teenagers getting summer jobs. This clearly said primary school students. Maybe Merriam-Webster can help you to understand what that means.
Get fucked you goddamn moron. Child labor is always wrong.
Nowhere in the article it mentions it being a summer job.
It's an actual job, fulfilled by literal children (ages 11 and up, also stated in the article). There is nothing wrong with summer jobs, but there sure is something wrong with child labour.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-08/country-kids-solve-labour-shortage-jugiong-jam-factory/102181710
From the article:
“"I was just so bored on the weekends like, you know, it can get really boring there's not much to do in Harden," Poppy said.”
So we can assume it’s not full-time and they are going to school
Thank god it's not a full time job. But still, children should have better to do on the weekend than work in a Jam factory.
Working an ice cream stand, being a camp counselor, or a life guard as a 14 year old is one thing. And working at your family restaurant or shop helping dad fill orders or take phone calls is one thing. Working a day job at a factory as an 11 year old is ridiculous. The factory has a labor shortage because theu wont pay living wages. I 100% guarantee that the people who support putting literal children to work are also rabidly against immigration.
We should all want and hope for better for our kids.
Giving them the ability to go to work at younger and younger ages is not making life better for kids. You can argue that it allows them to make good money and enable them to become good consumers, and sure, you're not wrong. But you have to realize that you're willingly siding with the capitalist machine here. When you start justifying things like child labor because labor shortages, you can easily start justifying things like 6 day work weeks, relaxed safety laws, longer working hours, etc. In 5-10 years, odds are they will push kids to work in other jobs than just "hospitality...or washing dishes" due to the "success" of it using the same argument of "labor shortage".
You have to understand that there are very good reasons why there are labor shortage at these places, and almost every single one of them is because companies do not want to pay their employees a living wage or offer any sort of benefits. It's the same reason there are lobbyists in Washington pushing to not increase the minimum wage.
Don't support laws like this
This is in Australia.
Doesn't necessarily invalidate anything other than the few American specific sentences. The main point still is there. America might be king of stupid, but does not have a monopoly of stupid.
Okay, well disregard the lobbyists in Washington part, however the rest of it still applies.
Politicians understand that they can change ANYTHING as long as it's changed slowly enough. As innocent as this seems, I promise you that it is anything but. It's just the first step of many in the wrong direction.
Even if the jobs are safe, those kids need to be focusing on school. Kids also need unstructured play time to help their development. Kids this young who are in extra curricular activities every day often have decreased mental health and academic performance. And I highly doubt employers are going to appreciate an employee who only works for an hour or two on weekends.
Hey man, serious question, what went wrong in your life that caused you to end up wasting your time trolling on a niche Internet forum?
According to them they have more money than sense.
Selling sense, $100/post.
So, like, $2?
"child labor bad" eeeerm aksually we should let children work in the mines to teach them how to mine when they are older
It's the slippery slope that's the problem. It starts with washing dishes. Then they help a bit in the warehouse. After that just delivering stuff in production. And helping a little bit when someone needs a bathroom break in production. And helping a bit more.
Did you hit your head?
you should. something malfunctioning up there.
there are numerous ways a child can learn responsibility. doing it so others can profit is not that way.
Hey, is it true you want children in the workforce so you can sexually harass them to help prepare them for the real world? I'm not accusing you, I'm just asking the question.